:00:00. > :00:00.It's official, the FBI is not just investigating
:00:07. > :00:13.Russian interference in the US election, but...
:00:14. > :00:19.That includes investigating the nature of any links between
:00:20. > :00:24.individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian
:00:25. > :00:25.government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign
:00:26. > :00:30.and Russia's efforts. Yes,
:00:31. > :00:32.it's the strangest An absorbing but bizarre
:00:33. > :00:37.intelligence drama centred on the election of the president,
:00:38. > :00:39.who was live tweeting We'll ask this Republican
:00:40. > :00:42.Congressman whether everyone is playing politics
:00:43. > :00:44.with national security. The Labour leadership
:00:45. > :00:45.gathers to douse down REPORTER: Is there a plot to take
:00:46. > :00:54.over the Labour Party? We'll ask the Shadow Foreign
:00:55. > :01:05.Secretary, Emily Thornberry, what's All the politicians seem obsessed
:01:06. > :01:10.with Brexit. Actually the biggest problems we face now are not Brexit.
:01:11. > :01:12.Former Bank of England Governor, Mervyn King,
:01:13. > :01:15.is back to warn we've all taken our eye off the ball.
:01:16. > :01:18.And Marie Lyon believes the pregnancy test she took 40 years
:01:19. > :01:20.ago caused her daughter's disability, and many, many others.
:01:21. > :01:31.We'll hear about her campaign for justice.
:01:32. > :01:35.They'll have to make a movie about it at some point.
:01:36. > :01:36.The accusations being levelled at Donald Trump,
:01:37. > :01:41.Public officials in the US have been caught up in a highly politicised
:01:42. > :01:43.process of inquiry into FBI and NSA investigations.
:01:44. > :01:49.For Democrats, the issue is the possibility that the Trump
:01:50. > :01:54.campaign colluded with the Russian state in its attempts to hurt
:01:55. > :01:59.For the Republicans, the issue is the illegal leaks that
:02:00. > :02:02.have brought certain of these matters to public attention.
:02:03. > :02:04.The House Intelligence Committee held hearings on these
:02:05. > :02:09.matters today, James Comey, the director of the FBI,
:02:10. > :02:12.and Mike Rogers, director of the National Security Council.
:02:13. > :02:14.And yes, Britain did get an honourable mention
:02:15. > :02:21.Here's Newsnight's own intelligence expert, Mark Urban.
:02:22. > :02:25.It was bound to be dramatic - two spy chiefs cross-examined
:02:26. > :02:29.publicly for the first time on an emerging investigation
:02:30. > :02:32.into the Kremlin's role in the US election.
:02:33. > :02:35.The FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission,
:02:36. > :02:39.is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere
:02:40. > :02:46.That includes investigating the nature of any links
:02:47. > :02:50.between individuals associated with the Trump campaign
:02:51. > :02:54.and the Russian government and whether there was any
:02:55. > :02:59.coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts.
:03:00. > :03:06.Time and again, committee members asked what Russian President Putin
:03:07. > :03:11.It wasn't simply that the Russians had a negative preference
:03:12. > :03:13.against Secretary Clinton, they also had a positive
:03:14. > :03:15.preference for Donald Trump, isn't that correct?
:03:16. > :03:21.And on Putin's aim to weaken the West, there was this
:03:22. > :03:27.Would they have a preference for a candidate who encourage Brexit
:03:28. > :03:37.Many times, the witnesses were asked about President Trump's
:03:38. > :03:40.statements on Twitter, including the allegation that
:03:41. > :03:43.Trump Tower was bugged by President Obama.
:03:44. > :03:50.With respect to the President's tweets about alleged wiretapping
:03:51. > :03:51.during the prior administration, I have no information that
:03:52. > :03:57.As for the idea, lent credence by the White House,
:03:58. > :04:01.that Britain's GCHQ had performed the interception of
:04:02. > :04:04.Trump's Communications, the director of America's
:04:05. > :04:09.I have seen nothing on the NSA site that we engaged
:04:10. > :04:14.in any such activity, nor that anyone asked us to engage
:04:15. > :04:18.And if you were to ask the British to spy on America,
:04:19. > :04:21.there would be a violation of US law, would it not?
:04:22. > :04:24.In broad terms, the Five Eyes agreement includes an agreement not
:04:25. > :04:27.That is the foundation of the agreement.
:04:28. > :04:31.Beyond that, each country has constraints within their own
:04:32. > :04:34.domestic law that say they cannot use other Five Eyes partners
:04:35. > :04:36.or any other intelligence service in order to circumvent
:04:37. > :04:39.the constraints of their domestic law.
:04:40. > :04:41.So anything that the United States intelligence community is not
:04:42. > :04:44.able to do themselves, they are not able to ask a foreign
:04:45. > :04:48.intelligence partner to do that on their behalf against Americans.
:04:49. > :04:52.But while the hearing produced some light,
:04:53. > :04:56.it also produced much heat, partisan, tactical
:04:57. > :04:59.questioning, with Republicans emphasising not Russian
:05:00. > :05:04.actions, but the seriousness of leaking about them.
:05:05. > :05:07.Doesn't that leak hurt our national security?
:05:08. > :05:15.Can you think of any reason why somebody would want to
:05:16. > :05:27.And Democrats asked questions which stood no chance of
:05:28. > :05:32.Being answered because of the ongoing investigation just to put
:05:33. > :05:36.Do you think Mr Flint's failure to disclose the communication and
:05:37. > :05:39.contact he had with the Russian ambassador and that topic of
:05:40. > :05:41.conversation, along with the blatant lie to Vice President Pence, meet
:05:42. > :05:45.the standard for an investigation by the FBI?
:05:46. > :05:56.As for collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, the White
:05:57. > :05:59.House today brushed aside the whole idea.
:06:00. > :06:03.If you continue to search for something that everybody has been
:06:04. > :06:06.briefed hasn't seen or found, I think it's fine to look into it.
:06:07. > :06:09.But at the end of the day, they're going to come to the same
:06:10. > :06:11.conclusion that everybody else has had.
:06:12. > :06:13.So you can continue to look for something,
:06:14. > :06:15.but you're continuing to look for something that doesn't exist.
:06:16. > :06:18.What we've learned today is that Trump
:06:19. > :06:21.and his people will be under scrutiny for months to come about
:06:22. > :06:25.their alleged ties with Russia, and the FBI's judgments could prove
:06:26. > :06:31.Well, a little earlier, I spoke to Republican
:06:32. > :06:34.congressman Will Hurd, who is a member of the House
:06:35. > :06:36.Intelligence Committee and was also a former undercover agent
:06:37. > :06:41.I asked him how credible it was that intelligence agencies -
:06:42. > :07:18.ordered by President Obama - had wiretapped candidate Trump.
:07:19. > :07:23.Admiral Rogers confirmed that they would never have requested a foreign
:07:24. > :07:28.intelligence agency to do something like that as well. I think a lot of
:07:29. > :07:32.President Trump supporters would say those people would say that, they're
:07:33. > :07:38.not going to say yeah, we were told to and we did it. In a way, Trump
:07:39. > :07:42.supporters are not going to accept the evidence, are they? Well, I
:07:43. > :07:49.don't know if I agree with that premise. I think one thing that the
:07:50. > :07:53.American people should be happy with is that the separation and checks
:07:54. > :07:59.and balances in our government is working. The fact that you have
:08:00. > :08:04.folks from the majority party in the House and Senate disagreeing with
:08:05. > :08:12.the executive branch is a sign that the process is working. I haven't
:08:13. > :08:15.seen any indication from folks, rank and file Americans being concerned
:08:16. > :08:21.with this. I think what they are concerned with is they want to see
:08:22. > :08:29.this investigation and the Russian involvement in our elections be done
:08:30. > :08:34.in a bipartisan, thoughtful and deliberate manner. Do you heart of
:08:35. > :08:37.heart think that's what the intelligence committee were today,
:08:38. > :08:41.they were bipartisan? The Republicans seem more concerned with
:08:42. > :08:43.the leaks. Obviously the Democrats were concerned with potential
:08:44. > :08:47.collusion between the Trump team and the Russians. It seemed to be
:08:48. > :08:54.falling down party lines to a large degree. Well, I think we've got to
:08:55. > :08:58.start with the fact that the scope of our investigation has been made
:08:59. > :09:03.public. That is manying that generally doesn't happen. We're
:09:04. > :09:08.looking at four areas: We're looking at what technical means did the
:09:09. > :09:13.Russians use in order to try to manipulate our elections. Are think
:09:14. > :09:16.any Americans associated with Russian intelligence that colluded
:09:17. > :09:20.with the Russians? We're looking at what was the government response to
:09:21. > :09:26.these actions and whether those could be improved in the future. And
:09:27. > :09:30.the fourth area is the leaks. I think both sides, Republicans and
:09:31. > :09:33.Democrats, made it clear that even though somebody may be focussing on
:09:34. > :09:37.one particular area, that's not an indication that the other areas
:09:38. > :09:45.don't matter. What you've just spelled out seems like the really
:09:46. > :09:49.substantive issue facing your committee. Along comes the president
:09:50. > :09:53.with his allegation that's Obama ordered his Trump Tower to be wire
:09:54. > :10:01.tapped. Is that just a silly distraction? What is going on there?
:10:02. > :10:05.What accounts for why that big thing will be thrown into your
:10:06. > :10:09.proceedings? Well, you'll have to ask the president that question.
:10:10. > :10:15.Because I don't have any perspective. I always rely on
:10:16. > :10:20.guidance and advice my father has given me. My dad is 85 years old.
:10:21. > :10:23.He's told all my friends, right before they got married, it never
:10:24. > :10:27.hurts to say you're sorry. I think that's the case here. Just one last
:10:28. > :10:31.one, do you think the president, if he believes the things he says and
:10:32. > :10:35.the things he tweets, as someone who's been working in intelligence
:10:36. > :10:42.yourself, not that long ago, do you believe he understands how it really
:10:43. > :10:48.functions and really works? Well, I think there can be a whole lot more
:10:49. > :10:53.precision used in language with everybody involved in this scenario.
:10:54. > :10:58.We can't think of press reporting as if it's intelligence. Some of my
:10:59. > :11:02.Democratic colleagues tried to use some information gleaned from the
:11:03. > :11:07.press as if it's proper evidence that's going to stand up in the
:11:08. > :11:12.court of law. I think we need to be precise in the use of terms like
:11:13. > :11:17."wire tapping". We need to be precise in how this information is
:11:18. > :11:21.gleaned. Ultimately, when it comes to intelligence and law enforcement,
:11:22. > :11:26.much of this should not be done in the public eye until after its
:11:27. > :11:29.concluded. I think the American people, and honestly the world, have
:11:30. > :11:35.an appetite to know what's going on right now, but when it comes to law
:11:36. > :11:37.enforcement investigations and intelligence investigations these
:11:38. > :11:42.things take time. When we talk about them, all of our language needs to
:11:43. > :11:46.be a lot more precise. Congressman, thank you very much.
:11:47. > :11:49.Thanks for having me on. There's the impending Article 50
:11:50. > :11:53.process, the Scotland issue, there's been election talk in recent
:11:54. > :11:55.days, which has been has been resolutely
:11:56. > :11:58.smacked down by Number 10. But Labour, at this busy time,
:11:59. > :12:01.is in the midst of some You don't have to be hugely trusting
:12:02. > :12:05.of opinion polls to think that when the Conservatives have a 19%
:12:06. > :12:09.lead in them, as they did in a poll today, something
:12:10. > :12:12.is going badly for the Opposition. There was an explosive meeting
:12:13. > :12:16.of the Parliamentary Nick Watt was outside,
:12:17. > :12:29.listening through the door. Tell us about the meeting first.
:12:30. > :12:33.Well, it was clearly a dreadful atmosphere, as you say, at tonight's
:12:34. > :12:37.meeting. All the bigwigs were there, Peter Mandelson came out and he said
:12:38. > :12:41.it reminded him of the dark days of the 1980s. Then Neil Kinnock said
:12:42. > :12:47.no, it was far worse than that. It was clear there was shouting and at
:12:48. > :12:54.one point, Jeremy Corbyn was referred to as "our so-called
:12:55. > :12:58.leader". Now, give us the cause, let's go two steps. What's got all
:12:59. > :13:01.this going? This blew up after a report in the Observer yesterday
:13:02. > :13:08.which had a tape of a private meeting addressed by John Landsman,
:13:09. > :13:14.the veteran left-winger who set up the Momentum group. He outlined
:13:15. > :13:24.plans to tighten his grip over the Labour movement. He said that if Len
:13:25. > :13:30.McCluskey, the General Secretary of unite, then unite will affiliate to
:13:31. > :13:45.Momentum. This is what he said in the tape.
:13:46. > :13:50.Tom Watson, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, condemned that on the
:13:51. > :13:54.Today Programme. This is what he said as he turned up at a meeting
:13:55. > :14:00.today, this morning of the Shadow Cabinet. I've responding to
:14:01. > :14:03.newspaper reports at the weekend that showed there was a secret plan
:14:04. > :14:10.to take over from the Labour Party. One of the things on the tape was an
:14:11. > :14:13.allegation from the head of Momentum that Unite were going to channel
:14:14. > :14:17.their funds into being part of that process. I think that's very
:14:18. > :14:21.important. I would like Len McCluskey to publicly distance
:14:22. > :14:24.himself from that allegation. After that meeting, it was a Shadow
:14:25. > :14:29.Cabinet away day, reports appeared that Tom Watson had been isolated at
:14:30. > :14:33.that meeting and had been widely reprimanded and John Crier, the
:14:34. > :14:37.chair of the PLP and who attends meetings of the Shadow Cabinet said
:14:38. > :14:42.he did not recognise that account of the meeting and he also said to the
:14:43. > :14:46.PLP this evening, he hadn't really paid much attention to this tape. He
:14:47. > :14:50.had made a point of listening to it and some members of the PLP heard
:14:51. > :14:54.him talking about an attempt to create a party within a party.
:14:55. > :14:58.Lucky with all this going on, that it looks like we're not having an
:14:59. > :15:03.election on May 4th, or whatever the date was meant to be. A definitive
:15:04. > :15:06.statement from Number Ten - there is not going to be an early election.
:15:07. > :15:11.That's what Theresa May said way back in the summer when she launched
:15:12. > :15:14.her bid for thor to leadership contest. One group who are
:15:15. > :15:18.absolutely delighted by that, that's Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters,
:15:19. > :15:22.because they know 19 points behind in the opinion polls, if there was
:15:23. > :15:26.an election on May 4, bit tricky for them. Tricky for him. Thank you very
:15:27. > :15:29.much. With me now is the Shadow Foreign
:15:30. > :15:40.Secretary. Festival, can we corroborate that
:15:41. > :15:45.Tom Watson was slapped down for going on the radio this morning and
:15:46. > :15:49.ecstasy his concerns? He said this was a battle for the future
:15:50. > :15:54.existence of the Labour Party -- for expressing his concerns. I am going
:15:55. > :15:57.to be very boring. I abide by the rules, and that is that Shadow
:15:58. > :16:00.Cabinet meetings are private and they are held in an atmosphere of
:16:01. > :16:05.trust, and I never say anything about what happens in them. What do
:16:06. > :16:10.you think of Tom Watson going on the radio this morning and said it was a
:16:11. > :16:13.battle for the existence of the Labour Party? It is important that
:16:14. > :16:18.internal discussions and fights within the Labour Party are done
:16:19. > :16:22.privately. We do not need to discuss them in the media. It seems to me
:16:23. > :16:32.that these are things we can discuss internally. The Labour Party is
:16:33. > :16:34.about a great deal more than that. Although you say there aren't going
:16:35. > :16:37.to be elections, actually, there are. There are going to be local
:16:38. > :16:40.authority elections, and I think of the elderly woman I met in Warwick
:16:41. > :16:43.who was so worried about the cuts to social care that she was not going
:16:44. > :16:46.to be got up in the morning any more, she was going to be got up at
:16:47. > :16:50.lunchtime. And who was going to help her have breakfast if the cuts to
:16:51. > :16:54.social care went ahead? The cuts to local authorities and policing,
:16:55. > :16:57.these are the things we should be focusing on. So many people have
:16:58. > :17:03.said Labour is letting those people down because it is not serving the
:17:04. > :17:06.role it should of holding the government to account. I am not
:17:07. > :17:12.clear on what is going wrong. Is it that Tom Watson went public with his
:17:13. > :17:15.criticisms? Is it the leader? Is it the MPs? What is it in your view
:17:16. > :17:20.that explains why Labour is 19 points behind the Tories in the
:17:21. > :17:25.poll? After the Shadow Cabinet awayday, there was a statement put
:17:26. > :17:27.out saying that we are a broad church and we have always had
:17:28. > :17:30.different groupings within the Labour Party and as long as it is
:17:31. > :17:36.done within the rules, no one is going to criticise. That has got to
:17:37. > :17:40.be right. That is the settlement on today's argument. Now you have to
:17:41. > :17:46.deal with the fact that poll after poll has you 20 points behind the
:17:47. > :17:51.Conservatives. That is why we have to focus on the policies. If you ask
:17:52. > :17:56.the public about our policies, we are very popular. It is linking
:17:57. > :17:59.those policies with us. I would like to talk about Donald Trump and about
:18:00. > :18:05.what has been happening with the allegations against Britain and the
:18:06. > :18:11.British Secret Service. Instead, I am talking about this. But you can't
:18:12. > :18:15.blame us for that. I'm not. What I am saying is that Labour ought to be
:18:16. > :18:20.debating our best policy offer for the public. You can't get to the
:18:21. > :18:25.policy until you have sorted out the internal dynamics. And yet when it
:18:26. > :18:29.comes to policy discussions, there is so little disagreement. That is
:18:30. > :18:33.because you have had so little to say on policy. When we have
:18:34. > :18:37.discussions on policy, it is actually relatively easy for us to
:18:38. > :18:38.come together, because we have a dreadful government and we know we
:18:39. > :18:52.have to be an alternative to it. We want to be
:18:53. > :18:54.able to put out a policy offer. Then we descend into personality politics
:18:55. > :18:57.and fighting amongst ourselves, and we have to be more disciplined. We
:18:58. > :19:00.have to focus on what the Labour Party is about. After the Budget, it
:19:01. > :19:03.was not the Labour Party that spotted the great flaw that pulled
:19:04. > :19:08.the Chancellor's Budget and made it unravel. It was backbench Tory MPs.
:19:09. > :19:11.Your leader didn't mention it in his follow-up speech, even though it had
:19:12. > :19:15.been trailed three days before. There is something else going on
:19:16. > :19:19.here, and it is not getting better. A year ago, John McDonnell
:19:20. > :19:24.suggested, give us a year and it is going to get much better. It is not.
:19:25. > :19:31.It is getting worse. What is going to get you out of this? I don't
:19:32. > :19:34.think it's getting worse. The Labour Party is a collective endeavour and
:19:35. > :19:40.we all have a duty to do our job as well as we can and to work
:19:41. > :19:43.collectively as one organisation. That is what we should be doing more
:19:44. > :19:48.than anything else. We should keep our focus on what is happening with
:19:49. > :19:51.the housing crisis. What are we going to do about the fact that we
:19:52. > :19:56.are having the number of police officers cut from our streets? These
:19:57. > :19:59.are the things we should be looking at and setting forward an
:20:00. > :20:05.alternative. When the party has sorted out the issues, people will
:20:06. > :20:09.probably give more time to that. Do you want Len McCluskey to win the
:20:10. > :20:16.election for general secretary of Unite next week? I am a member of
:20:17. > :20:21.Unite and I will vote for him. So yes, I would think he would be a
:20:22. > :20:24.good leader. Then can I assume that you have no worries about Unite and
:20:25. > :20:30.Momentum getting together and perhaps working more in unison and
:20:31. > :20:36.exerting more power over the Labour Party? Whether Unite affiliate to
:20:37. > :20:42.Momentum or the other way round am a it is not a matter for the leader of
:20:43. > :20:50.Unite, it is a decision that Unite had to make collectively. That is
:20:51. > :20:54.useful. Another issue that is relevant is whether the rules of the
:20:55. > :21:00.Labour Party should be changed to make it possible for a leader to be
:21:01. > :21:05.collected with just support from 5% of the MPs. At the moment, it is
:21:06. > :21:08.15%. It doesn't seem like an enormous hurdle, but John McDonnell
:21:09. > :21:11.has suggested that it should come down to five. Do you think that
:21:12. > :21:15.would be a better way of electing the leader? Well, there have been a
:21:16. > :21:20.number of suggestions. Tom wants it to be a third again. These
:21:21. > :21:28.discussions will happen internally. To be honest, those discussions will
:21:29. > :21:31.not get that lady who is being held in bed until lunchtime because the
:21:32. > :21:36.social services are not coming to get her up out of bed. That is what
:21:37. > :21:39.we should focus on in public, and that is the important stuff of
:21:40. > :21:44.politics. Politics is about power and changing people's lives. When
:21:45. > :21:47.Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader, there was a suggestion that the
:21:48. > :21:51.Scottish Labour Party would have a resurgence and that he would better
:21:52. > :21:53.connect with the values of Scotland. Since he was elected leader, the
:21:54. > :22:00.Conservatives have overtaken Labour in Scotland and indeed, Labour is
:22:01. > :22:03.seen as being in some difficulty of that. Should those people who
:22:04. > :22:09.thought that by backing Corbyn, a kind of untapped socialist murmur
:22:10. > :22:13.around the country would be harnessed and would be brought to
:22:14. > :22:19.light, should they be disappointed that this has simply not worked? It
:22:20. > :22:23.has not gone to plan at all. I think that politics in Scotland ought to
:22:24. > :22:28.focus on the party which has been in power for ten years. The schools are
:22:29. > :22:32.failing. The health service is failing, and they have just
:22:33. > :22:36.introduced a huge cuts which they need not have done. They have powers
:22:37. > :22:42.devolved, and yet they are not using them. But there are continuing to
:22:43. > :22:45.bring up constitutional crisis after constitutional crisis to cover the
:22:46. > :22:51.fact that they are not doing their job properly in Scotland. It is up
:22:52. > :22:53.to Labour in Scotland, and I spoke to Kezia Dugdale tonight. This is
:22:54. > :22:58.what she will be pointing out during the elections. We need her to have
:22:59. > :23:01.the space to say that and not spend our time fighting amongst ourselves
:23:02. > :23:02.and discussing people's personalities. Emily Thornberry,
:23:03. > :23:04.thanks very much. Not a general election, it's not
:23:05. > :23:10.a boy, or a girl, it's Article 50. 279 days after the June 23rd
:23:11. > :23:12.referendum, nine months and a few extra days,
:23:13. > :23:15.the Brexit process begins. All the arguments, the chatter,
:23:16. > :23:21.the thinking about this option Clear your diaries -
:23:22. > :23:27.here's how the timetable now looks. On the day itself, Theresa May
:23:28. > :23:31.will send a letter to Donald Tusk, president of the European Council,
:23:32. > :23:35.and will address the Commons. Within 48 hours, the council
:23:36. > :23:38.will publish Then everything is put
:23:39. > :23:44.on pause till late April, when other EU leaders are expected
:23:45. > :23:47.to meet to agree The talks themselves
:23:48. > :23:50.should then begin sometime in May after the final
:23:51. > :23:52.round of the French
:23:53. > :23:54.presidential election. through the German general
:23:55. > :24:01.election in September, to a vote in the UK and European
:24:02. > :24:09.parliaments Then Brexit becomes a reality,
:24:10. > :24:16.two years from now. Victoria Dean was a diplomat
:24:17. > :24:19.for 20 years, including being the Foreign Office's deputy
:24:20. > :24:22.director on Europe and also spokesperson for the UK's permanent
:24:23. > :24:24.representation to the EU. She now heads the Brexit unit
:24:25. > :24:39.at Portland Communications. We thought we would get you to help
:24:40. > :24:44.us understand some of the Kokrak every -- choreography of this. The
:24:45. > :24:48.other 27 will have a meeting in late April, it seems. That is exactly
:24:49. > :24:53.what they will do. They will need to coordinate their position in
:24:54. > :24:56.response to the UK invoking article 50. We expect that they will get
:24:57. > :25:02.together at the end of April, rumour had it the 27th. I think that is
:25:03. > :25:08.tricky timing. But they have to agree a line. What if they can't?
:25:09. > :25:11.Does that store things? It does, and it could take more than one meeting.
:25:12. > :25:15.But they have been preparing for months. They have had plenty of time
:25:16. > :25:19.to start to get their ducks in a row, and they then give a mandate to
:25:20. > :25:24.the commission who will lead discussions. So the commission lead
:25:25. > :25:26.the negotiations. Can we divide and rule of it here? Can we bung a few
:25:27. > :25:44.favours to one lot and say, be on our side on this or that?
:25:45. > :25:47.I certainly think that is what the UK has been trying to do and will
:25:48. > :25:49.probably continue to have a go at, but there is a strong case for
:25:50. > :25:52.European Union member states to come together and have some unity on
:25:53. > :25:55.this. To some extent, it is the job of the lead negotiator to keep the
:25:56. > :25:58.member states together as much as he can on this. They know they will be
:25:59. > :26:00.more successful if they are united. We keep talking about the
:26:01. > :26:05.negotiations of a Dale. Physically, give me the picture of what we mean.
:26:06. > :26:09.Said David Davis or are we talking people lower down the food chain?
:26:10. > :26:17.Where will they be? What language will they be talking? Are we talking
:26:18. > :26:22.thousands of pages of things passing backwards and forwards? None of that
:26:23. > :26:29.is set in stone, but we expect it will be Barnier on one side and
:26:30. > :26:34.David Davis. David Davis will not be there every day, though. Of course
:26:35. > :26:40.not. Barnier has already set out who his team is and has divided them
:26:41. > :26:43.into different sectors. He has played specialists and financial
:26:44. > :26:48.services specialists, so we know about his negotiating team already.
:26:49. > :26:55.I expect there will be lots that happens outside the room and outside
:26:56. > :26:59.the formal negotiations. And it is going to be in English? It will have
:27:00. > :27:10.to be in English. I don't know how Barnier will feel about that. So
:27:11. > :27:12.they have a few things to work out about the citizens of different
:27:13. > :27:20.countries and the Brexit bill. We have to sort out the bill. If we get
:27:21. > :27:27.stuck on that, seriously, does nothing happened for the whole two
:27:28. > :27:30.years while we say no? That is a strong possibility, and plenty of
:27:31. > :27:34.people will co-you that that is what will happen, that negotiations will
:27:35. > :27:37.run into the sand over the issue of the bill and the 60 billion euros.
:27:38. > :27:41.We might never even get into the real meat of the negotiations
:27:42. > :27:48.themselves. I think there is a way around that. As Newsnight reported
:27:49. > :27:52.last week, you can park in a separate process between number
:27:53. > :27:56.crunchers what happens on the 60 billion. That is a concession on
:27:57. > :28:01.both sides already, that there is a bill to be paid and that the number
:28:02. > :28:06.can be discussed elsewhere. So perhaps that is a price worth paying
:28:07. > :28:10.to allow you to get into the meat of the negotiations. You're right that
:28:11. > :28:14.the other issue that the Prime Minister will want to tackle early
:28:15. > :28:19.is the status of EU nationals in the UK and in return, UK nationals in
:28:20. > :28:22.the EU. And in one word, if we agree on a status for EU nationals but
:28:23. > :28:26.don't agree on anything else, the status will stay as agreed
:28:27. > :28:31.presumably, or does that fall away when you have no agreement on
:28:32. > :28:34.anything else? All we know is that it is not agreed until it is all
:28:35. > :28:36.agreed. Victoria, thank you very much.
:28:37. > :28:38.Lord King, Mervyn King, who was Governor of the Bank
:28:39. > :28:41.of England, through the good years and the bad years in
:28:42. > :28:45.He's at the midst of many of the traumas of the time
:28:46. > :28:48.and wrote his account of what had gone wrong in a book published last
:28:49. > :28:53.But it's been a long year and a lot has happened since.
:28:54. > :28:55.So the new paperback version of the book has a preface updating
:28:56. > :28:59.He is, for example, more comfortable with Brexit
:29:00. > :29:04.First, does he have any worries about Theresa May triggering Article
:29:05. > :29:08.Well, it's bound to be a complex process.
:29:09. > :29:14.My biggest concern is not about the challenge of Brexit as such,
:29:15. > :29:17.but about whether we're going to make the decisions early enough
:29:18. > :29:19.that would enable us to make the practical planning
:29:20. > :29:26.we should have a simple, clean Brexit and minimise the scale
:29:27. > :29:30.There's a danger that we won't make progress in negotiations,
:29:31. > :29:33.at least within the two-year horizon.
:29:34. > :29:36.But what follows from that is not that we say OK
:29:37. > :29:39.and give in to everything the other side demands.
:29:40. > :29:43.We say "These are the things that are under our control",
:29:44. > :29:46.and a clean Brexit is under our control.
:29:47. > :29:49.There will be things that we will want to discuss,
:29:50. > :29:51.but we have to minimise the area of negotiation.
:29:52. > :29:54.And I think the Government also has to point out
:29:55. > :29:57.the potential opportunities that Brexit gives.
:29:58. > :30:00.We could restructure the way we give subsidies to agriculture.
:30:01. > :30:02.We could, for example, in Northern Ireland,
:30:03. > :30:05.which is a problem that deserves more attention
:30:06. > :30:08.than it is getting at present, try and have a conversation
:30:09. > :30:11.with the government south of the border -
:30:12. > :30:15.I know they were very nervous about the Brexit outcome,
:30:16. > :30:18.I was there just before the referendum - and say to them
:30:19. > :30:22."Can we find a way of shifting the tax and tariff border
:30:23. > :30:25.from the land frontier to the sea frontier,
:30:26. > :30:26.while not disturbing the political arrangements?"
:30:27. > :30:29.I think it's in everyone's interest to have an imaginative discussion
:30:30. > :30:36.You mean have a customs border between Northern Ireland
:30:37. > :30:41.And there's no reason why the rate of corporation tax
:30:42. > :30:44.in Northern Ireland has to be the same as in the rest of the UK
:30:45. > :30:51.A lot has been said about the potential for a UK-US
:30:52. > :30:58.Would such a deal benefit the UK's trade balance
:30:59. > :31:03.My feeling is that both sides are thinking "We'll sign all these
:31:04. > :31:05.deals and we'll suddenly be exporting more and bringing our
:31:06. > :31:08.country into better balance", but both of us have the same problem
:31:09. > :31:12.and I'm not sure which one of us would benefit.
:31:13. > :31:15.We in the UK need to do something about our trade deficit.
:31:16. > :31:23.My biggest worry about economic policy in the next few years is that
:31:24. > :31:25.all the politicians seem obsessed with Brexit and actually,
:31:26. > :31:29.the biggest problems we face now are not Brexit.
:31:30. > :31:32.It's about how we can reduce the trade deficit,
:31:33. > :31:35.how we're going to save enough as a nation to pay for our pensions,
:31:36. > :31:40.because the pension scheme has deteriorated over the last 25 years,
:31:41. > :31:46.how we're going to save enough to pay for care
:31:47. > :31:49.for the elderly when we all become so old that we need that support.
:31:50. > :31:53.These are the big economic challenges, and if politicians
:31:54. > :31:56.ignore those and focus only on Brexit for the next two
:31:57. > :31:59.or three years, then those big questions will not receive
:32:00. > :32:03.And you think they might be giving too little weight to those
:32:04. > :32:08.Well, it's clear that their mind is now completely on Brexit,
:32:09. > :32:12.I just want to talk briefly about Scotland, which
:32:13. > :32:16.you mention in your book and you say would have been viable as a nation
:32:17. > :32:19.at the time of the last referendum and Project Fear
:32:20. > :32:23.was perhaps overdone at the time of the last referendum.
:32:24. > :32:28.The revenue that Scotland would derive from oil is much lower.
:32:29. > :32:31.Do you still think Scotland would be viable as a nation?
:32:32. > :32:34.Scotland could certainly be an independent country.
:32:35. > :32:37.There are plenty of small countries the same size as Scotland.
:32:38. > :32:41.Scotland has both the people and the capital city,
:32:42. > :32:48.The question is, does it want to be, given the consequences?
:32:49. > :32:51.I myself don't think there are any major problems in terms of currency.
:32:52. > :32:55.That was the thing that Project Fear focused on last time.
:32:56. > :32:58.But there is an issue about public finances.
:32:59. > :33:01.If the oil price remains low and if they lose the money
:33:02. > :33:05.which is transferred from the rest of the UK to Scotland,
:33:06. > :33:08.they would have to make that up in their own budget.
:33:09. > :33:10.But that is a consequence of deciding to be
:33:11. > :33:17.It would be a challenge to borrow on the international market
:33:18. > :33:19.in Scotland decided to run a large budget deficit.
:33:20. > :33:25.But that's one of the consequences of saying
:33:26. > :33:28."If we want to be independent, we have to accept the consequences".
:33:29. > :33:34.Donald Trump, one of the things he has said he wants to do
:33:35. > :33:40.the big post-crisis regulatory change in the US.
:33:41. > :33:43.He thinks it's getting in the way and he wants a more
:33:44. > :33:47.Is that the right approach, and are you worried
:33:48. > :33:50.about the fragility of the global banking system still,
:33:51. > :33:52.which is two years on since you wrote the first edition
:33:53. > :33:58.I think there is an argument which can be made to support part
:33:59. > :34:02.of the move that President Trump wants to make, which is that we have
:34:03. > :34:06.made the regulatory system incredibly complex.
:34:07. > :34:09.People who work in banks have to go to their compliance officer
:34:10. > :34:15.What regulators have done is to produce literally thousands
:34:16. > :34:18.of pages of regulations and say "You must obey each of these".
:34:19. > :34:20.And they've done it in order to prevent a repetition
:34:21. > :34:25.But of course, the next financial crisis that comes along
:34:26. > :34:28.won't look quite like the one that happened before.
:34:29. > :34:30.Are you scared of any banks having a run on them
:34:31. > :34:36.But elsewhere in the world, there are concerns
:34:37. > :34:41.In Europe, the banking system is still fragile.
:34:42. > :34:44.We've seen concerns about the financial sector in China.
:34:45. > :34:48.and the thing that everyone needs to be concerned about is,
:34:49. > :34:53.in the banking sector in one part of the world,
:34:54. > :34:56.it can quite easily lead to problems with the banking system elsewhere
:34:57. > :35:01.So our banks are in good shape, but if there were a serious problem
:35:02. > :35:10.there would be a blowback to our banking system as well.
:35:11. > :35:13.And for those of you that want to see the full, unedited,
:35:14. > :35:18.version of that interview, it's up on our YouTube channel now.
:35:19. > :35:21.Primodos was a drug made by the German company Schering back
:35:22. > :35:23.in the '60s and '70s, sometimes used as a way
:35:24. > :35:29.But using powerful synthetic hormones, it may have caused birth
:35:30. > :35:32.defects in the children of pregnant women.
:35:33. > :35:35.It was withdrawn from use in the '70s, but the question
:35:36. > :35:38.of whether the drug was behind a number of birth defects
:35:39. > :35:43.This week, campaigners are meeting the Department of Health
:35:44. > :35:46.to discuss the progress, or lack thereof, of an expert
:35:47. > :35:52.There's a Sky News documentary on the drug tomorrow.
:35:53. > :35:55.But the story has a twist: in 2015, campaigner Marie Lyon found
:35:56. > :35:59.internal company documents in the Berlin State Archive
:36:00. > :36:03.suggesting that our own Chief Medical Officer had warned
:36:04. > :36:06.Schering in 1975 that Primodos did indeed cause such abnormalities,
:36:07. > :36:10.and he had then destroyed the evidence so that it
:36:11. > :36:23.Very good evening to you. Hello. You took Primodos. I did, yes. You think
:36:24. > :36:28.it affected your daughter. What affect did it have? When Sarah was
:36:29. > :36:35.born, she had her arm missing from just below the elbow. There was a
:36:36. > :36:41.tiny pad, five tiny fingers where the arm should have been. It was as
:36:42. > :36:44.if the growth had just stopped quite abruptly much those fingers and that
:36:45. > :36:51.tiny pad were actually amputate whenned she was 13 months old. --
:36:52. > :36:56.amputated when she was 13 months old so she could be fitted with an
:36:57. > :37:00.artificial arm. She has the artificial arm and working. She is,
:37:01. > :37:05.yes. She came out of relatively well compared to some. She certainly did.
:37:06. > :37:11.We have a lot of our members with multiple abnormalities, not just
:37:12. > :37:15.one. You've got transposition of valves, heart disease, brain
:37:16. > :37:20.disease, you know spina bifida. What is the actual evidence that the
:37:21. > :37:30.including was involved in this? We had quite a lot of evidence. There's
:37:31. > :37:33.the that titical graph that shows that -- statistics graph that shows
:37:34. > :37:41.it was on track with the abnormalities. We found that there
:37:42. > :37:47.were testing results in the files and they showed abnormalities in
:37:48. > :37:52.animal studies. Also, the drug itself was manufactured as an
:37:53. > :37:55.abortive agent. A drug that's 40 times the strength of oral
:37:56. > :38:00.contraceptive is a huge thing to give to a woman early in pregnancy.
:38:01. > :38:03.It is. If you think back to those times, now you just say, what were
:38:04. > :38:10.they thinking. They weren't. When you took the drug, what was - it was
:38:11. > :38:14.a pill presumably? Two tablets, yes. Do you even remember taking it? Of
:38:15. > :38:19.course, I do. It's something because it was my first child. So my initial
:38:20. > :38:24.thoughts were it would be a urine test. The urine test was very widely
:38:25. > :38:29.available at that time. When I was given the two tablets, it was sort
:38:30. > :38:34.of on the understanding that this is new, this is quick. You'll be able
:38:35. > :38:39.to know you're pregnant within days. So I didn't question because my
:38:40. > :38:45.doctor gave them to me. Consequently - You didn't know that it was a
:38:46. > :38:52.powerful hormone? I had no idea. We weren't even told. It was a test, it
:38:53. > :38:58.wasn't a therapy like Thalidomide. The only purpose for this was money.
:38:59. > :39:01.Bayer, which now owns the company which produced the drug, reject all
:39:02. > :39:08.claims that there was a link. There was a court case. There was. The
:39:09. > :39:13.link wasn't held up in that case, that was in the 80s. We didn't get
:39:14. > :39:19.to that stage. We had a handful of scientists willing to give evidence.
:39:20. > :39:24.Schering had the same number of scientists, including I may add Dr
:39:25. > :39:27.William Inman the commissioner on the safety of medicine. So he was
:39:28. > :39:33.someone who should have been looking after the health of the women in the
:39:34. > :39:37.UK, but he actually chose to give evidence on behalf of Scherings
:39:38. > :39:43.against the association. We had to withdraw and that really is the
:39:44. > :39:47.bottom line. We withdrew because we were outnumbered and outgunned. But
:39:48. > :39:50.the judge at the time insisted that the case should not be closed. And
:39:51. > :39:55.it's not closed for you. No it absolutely isn't. There are too many
:39:56. > :39:59.people whose lives have been affected for #40 plus years. They've
:40:00. > :40:04.lived half a life. That's how you've got to look at it. It's about time
:40:05. > :40:09.that answers were actually given and it's about time that Bayer actually
:40:10. > :40:13.were big enough to actually release all the documentation. I will stress
:40:14. > :40:16.that Bayer of course deny it. I understand that. Thank you very
:40:17. > :40:21.much. You're very welcome. Thank you.
:40:22. > :40:23.Dame Vera Lynn, the forces sweetheart whose songs kept the home
:40:24. > :40:26.fires burning during World War Two, celebrated her hundredth today.
:40:27. > :40:28.Unfortunately the Spitfire flyby in her honour had to be cancelled
:40:29. > :40:31.because of bad weather, but the rain didn't
:40:32. > :40:34.frighten the residents of Priory House in Leamington Spa,
:40:35. > :40:41.We leave you tonight with Dame Vera - and the memories of Esme,
:40:42. > :40:57.# We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when ... She
:40:58. > :41:02.represents family and home really, to me. Because she wasn't
:41:03. > :41:10.particularly young, was she, when she was singing. Everybody could
:41:11. > :41:20.relate to her. # Keep smiling through, just like
:41:21. > :41:26.you always do # Till that blue skies lift the dark
:41:27. > :41:30.clouds far away... We only had radios, we didn't have television.
:41:31. > :41:37.When she sang, it really did lift us. It really did. I thought she was
:41:38. > :41:45.marvellous. -- marvellous. We all had to make our own entertainment.
:41:46. > :41:51.And to sing together was people and choirs, was a lovely way for the
:41:52. > :41:55.community to get together. You couldn't always have expensive dos,
:41:56. > :42:02.but you could have a sing along. # Don't know where, don't know when
:42:03. > :42:08.# But we'll meet again some sunny day
:42:09. > :42:18.# We'll meet again # Don't know where, don't know when
:42:19. > :42:29.# But I know we'll meet again some sunny day.
:42:30. > :42:34.Hello. There warnings of snow and ice for Scotland and Northern
:42:35. > :42:39.Ireland overnight and into the rush hour. Definite winter chill in the
:42:40. > :42:40.air. Many central and Eastern parts of England