:00:16. > :00:21.And now the decision to leave has been made, and the process is
:00:22. > :00:30.underway, it is time to come together. There is no reason to
:00:31. > :00:46.pretend that this is a happy day. We are leaving.
:00:47. > :00:54.Control over migration through our own borders and a reassertion of the
:00:55. > :01:05.supremacy of our Parliament. That will happen.
:01:06. > :01:10.The Prime Minister says no deal it is better than a bad deal, but the
:01:11. > :01:19.reality is, no deal is a bad deal. We already miss you. Thank you and
:01:20. > :01:30.goodbye. The clock to exit, has started
:01:31. > :01:36.counting down as we are helpfully To think a year ago, hardly anyone
:01:37. > :01:41.had heard of Article 50, now it is the framework
:01:42. > :01:43.by which our future Welcome to Brussels -
:01:44. > :01:48.We'll head to London later in the programme,
:01:49. > :01:56.and to Berlin. But it is THIS city that has become
:01:57. > :01:59.a by-word in the UK, for bureaucracy and barmy
:02:00. > :02:01.directives, for remote rule Fair or unfair, those
:02:02. > :02:12.associations are now irrelevant. Not for the first time,
:02:13. > :02:14.we are redefining our relationship with the continent that sits 21
:02:15. > :02:18.miles away from us. Theresa May put on a conciliatory
:02:19. > :02:24.tone in the commons today. I have set out a clear and ambitious
:02:25. > :02:27.plan for the negotiations ahead. It is a plan for a new deep
:02:28. > :02:30.and special partnership between A partnership of values,
:02:31. > :02:36.a partnership of interest, a partnership based on cooperation
:02:37. > :02:40.in areas such as security and economic affairs
:02:41. > :02:42.and a partnership that works in the best interests
:02:43. > :02:46.of the United Kingdom, the European Union and the wider
:02:47. > :02:50.world. Because, perhaps now,
:02:51. > :02:53.more than ever, the world needs the liberal democratic
:02:54. > :02:55.values of Europe. "Deep and special partnership"
:02:56. > :03:12.are words she repeated. The British government's letter
:03:13. > :03:14.triggering Article 50 was hand delivered to Donald Tusk -
:03:15. > :03:16.a very nineteenth And that acknowledgement meant,
:03:17. > :03:24.the clock to our exit Unless we agree on something
:03:25. > :03:31.different, it's 730 days away. Not for the first time,
:03:32. > :03:35.we will be separate. You can look back to the Roman
:03:36. > :03:38.empire or the Reformation to see that we have long had an ambivalent
:03:39. > :03:41.relationship with the continent. Perhaps this historic moment fits
:03:42. > :03:59.that historic pattern. Membership actually came after years
:04:00. > :04:04.of dithering. After the war we said no but then we said yes and then the
:04:05. > :04:09.French said no, followed by yes and then we said yes but now we say no.
:04:10. > :04:13.Maybe Brexit is just the latest manifestation of Britain's on-off
:04:14. > :04:16.relationship with the continent, through the centuries we have
:04:17. > :04:22.struggled to settle the matter of how to engage without committing to
:04:23. > :04:26.Europe. We have a tendency to think of Europe as a unified entity on the
:04:27. > :04:39.other side of the channel with which we
:04:40. > :04:43.either engage or do not. It is a frame of mind that comes out of the
:04:44. > :04:45.19th century, the idea of splendid isolation and the idea that we have
:04:46. > :04:48.our own perpetual interest and perpetual enemies and allies. Other
:04:49. > :04:49.nations found solace in the newly constructed European institutions,
:04:50. > :04:54.having lived through a war and crises on their own. The British
:04:55. > :04:59.public never really got behind of Brussels and its ways. Perhaps we
:05:00. > :05:04.confused it with Eurovision, except when we joined the Common Market, it
:05:05. > :05:11.was possible to think that we had settled the matter and we were now
:05:12. > :05:15.taking Europe seriously. # Taking power to all our friends.
:05:16. > :05:21.That very year Cliff Richard came third with power to all our friends,
:05:22. > :05:26.a song for a new constructive era. Back then and that sporadic other
:05:27. > :05:31.bomb moments, you could genuinely think that post-imperial Britain had
:05:32. > :05:36.found a new home for itself here in Brussels, but we were never quite in
:05:37. > :05:40.sync. We were never really all that comfortable. It took a decade for
:05:41. > :05:44.Labour to reluctantly reconcile itself to membership of the Common
:05:45. > :05:49.Market and by then, the Conservatives were turning
:05:50. > :05:54.sceptical. And in our 44 years of EU membership we have had more than 44
:05:55. > :05:59.arguments, over treaties and social chapters, budgets and bent bananas.
:06:00. > :06:03.For any marriage to be durable, the partners have to grow, develop and
:06:04. > :06:08.change together and the Common Market did change. The EEC became
:06:09. > :06:12.the EU, the nine members became 28, the one thing that did not change
:06:13. > :06:18.though, was that British ambivalence. If anything, it grew.
:06:19. > :06:22.Our separation captured by this moment, Gordon Brown signing Bill
:06:23. > :06:26.lives bomb treaty on his own, I'm keen to make a big deal of it. The
:06:27. > :06:32.other member celebrated together, thinking of it as a new constitution
:06:33. > :06:39.for Europe. So now, we forge a new relationship. This is an historic
:06:40. > :06:44.moment, from which there can be no turning back. Britain is leaving the
:06:45. > :06:49.European Union. Can we finally settle the matter once and for all?
:06:50. > :06:54.Good luck with that. At one level you might say that the EU is less
:06:55. > :06:58.binary than it used to be, less about in or out, it can be by
:06:59. > :07:01.curious, dabble in the bits we like, reject the bits we do not like and
:07:02. > :07:07.even the remaining members recognise it is to big for one size fits all,
:07:08. > :07:11.flexibility has to be part of their future. We are all grown-ups, that
:07:12. > :07:16.is the modern way. But, when it comes to us and flexibility, we have
:07:17. > :07:21.only allowed ourselves two years to negotiate something we have been
:07:22. > :07:25.grappling with four two sentries and are we all grown-ups? Human emotion
:07:26. > :07:31.is at play, nowhere more so than in the European Parliament itself. It
:07:32. > :07:36.is going to be complicated. While we have been ambivalent about the EU,
:07:37. > :07:43.over the 44 years, the public have merrily reached out to Europe for
:07:44. > :07:47.business and pleasure. Those auto industry supply chains, testify to
:07:48. > :07:52.deeper links with Europe than to the EU. But the EU might get in the way
:07:53. > :07:57.of those relationships with Europe. In so many areas, from regulation of
:07:58. > :08:02.trade in nuclear materials to rules governing aviation, there is room
:08:03. > :08:06.for the others to cause trouble, without even thinking about trading
:08:07. > :08:11.goods and services. Who knows how it will go. It is now those
:08:12. > :08:12.institutions about which we have been so very ambivalent that will be
:08:13. > :08:15.shaping our future. There are several
:08:16. > :08:17.presidents of the EU - Donald Tusk for the Council,
:08:18. > :08:19.Jean-Claude Juncker And I sat down with the President
:08:20. > :08:24.of the European Parliament, The Parliament does have the power
:08:25. > :08:30.to veto a deal and has suggested Mr Tajani had hot-footed
:08:31. > :08:35.it to me straight from Yes, we had a very good
:08:36. > :08:47.conversation, very constructive. Both we want an agreement,
:08:48. > :08:50.win win and then after the Brexit, our opinion is, we need
:08:51. > :08:55.to have a good cooperation. Tomorrow, the United Kingdom will be
:08:56. > :09:01.outside the European Union, but it will still be Europe,
:09:02. > :09:04.it is important, to work together, You mentioned terrorism,
:09:05. > :09:09.many people say, her letter to you is a threat, it is blackmail,
:09:10. > :09:13.it says we want a deal on the economy and on security
:09:14. > :09:18.and links the two. If Britain links security
:09:19. > :09:23.and economy, how will you react? We need to work
:09:24. > :09:28.for global agreement. General agreement is
:09:29. > :09:31.the most important point. But, the cooperation against
:09:32. > :09:38.the terrorists is a priority. Also, without an agreement in other
:09:39. > :09:40.sectors, we need to cooperate The first issue is money,
:09:41. > :09:47.the bill for the UK to pay. I think millions
:09:48. > :09:55.and millions of euro. And my understanding is we talk
:09:56. > :09:59.about the money and we can also talk about broad principles on our future
:10:00. > :10:00.partnership, correct, Before, we need to achieve
:10:01. > :10:14.an agreement on the Brexit and then, it is possible to decide our future,
:10:15. > :10:20.our good relations, but before we need to decide the divorce,
:10:21. > :10:26.because without the divorce, it is impossible to decide
:10:27. > :10:34.the day after the divorce! We need to know what the UK
:10:35. > :10:36.will give us afterwards. It could be a financial
:10:37. > :10:41.problem for us! Also, financial, but I think
:10:42. > :10:44.it is important to have a good framework before and then,
:10:45. > :10:48.it is possible to achieve a good agreement for the future,
:10:49. > :10:50.but it is important that we have a good
:10:51. > :10:57.framework for the Brexit. Do you think Britain maybe one day
:10:58. > :11:00.will want to come back But, but, we need an agreement
:11:01. > :11:13.with the 27 member states. If the UK wants to change
:11:14. > :11:23.its position, I think What is your message today to 48%
:11:24. > :11:31.of the UK population They are losing their
:11:32. > :11:39.European citizenship, You can sell passports to them,
:11:40. > :11:54.European passports? They are citizens of
:11:55. > :12:00.the United Kingdom, They are European, but they are not
:12:01. > :12:08.citizens of the European Union now. I think we need to respect the vote,
:12:09. > :12:12.the referendum, the democracy, but I think we look at these people,
:12:13. > :12:15.because I think in the UK, there are a lot of pro-European
:12:16. > :12:23.citizens against the Brexit. We need to have good relationships
:12:24. > :12:26.with them in the future. Early 2019, the deal goes
:12:27. > :12:33.to the European Parliament, you have to vote for it
:12:34. > :12:36.or against it, the deal is better than no deal, but not as good
:12:37. > :12:42.as the deal you want. It does not have your red lines,
:12:43. > :12:45.it does not have all Do you vote for it or do
:12:46. > :12:57.you vote against it? I think my personal position,
:12:58. > :13:02.we need to achieve a good agreement. With, the most important point
:13:03. > :13:04.of the European Parliament. The agreement, win-win,
:13:05. > :13:08.is not the agreement. We need to be very pragmatic,
:13:09. > :13:11.but at the same time, we need to strengthen the rights
:13:12. > :13:14.of citizens, not only Europeans, but also the UK citizens,
:13:15. > :13:16.and I think it is possible to achieve this goal, finally,
:13:17. > :13:19.but we need to read the content For all his optimism,
:13:20. > :13:41.I'd say sadness not anger But we'll be back a little
:13:42. > :13:48.later to test that. We'll be back in Brussels later,
:13:49. > :13:55.but now to the day here. Theresa May was on her feet
:13:56. > :13:57.for three hours this afternoon, and struck a tone that looked rather
:13:58. > :14:00.different to some of the bravado There was an acknowledgment
:14:01. > :14:04.that there would be 'consequences' for Britain's departure -
:14:05. > :14:06.perhaps even a tacit And she went further: suggesting
:14:07. > :14:11.in no uncertain terms that failure to reach an agreement would mean
:14:12. > :14:14.Britain's cooperation in the fight How did Security become
:14:15. > :14:20.contingent on trade? Is it the start of dirty talk -
:14:21. > :14:23.either to Europe, Nick Watt our political editor
:14:24. > :14:36.is here - how did you read today? Rule number one of reporting the
:14:37. > :14:41.modern Conservative Party is to be careful of saying it is united on
:14:42. > :14:44.Europe. Eurosceptics were delirious today and pro-Europeans were
:14:45. > :14:49.delighted that the Prime Minister reached out to the EU by saying that
:14:50. > :14:53.the world needs the Liberal democratic values of Europe and that
:14:54. > :14:58.really set the tone for that two-year road to Brexit. One Cabinet
:14:59. > :15:02.minister told me today that we might not actually read the political
:15:03. > :15:06.negotiations until next January. We have the German elections in
:15:07. > :15:16.September and last time it took two months to form a government. That
:15:17. > :15:18.means that we might just have ten months of intense political
:15:19. > :15:21.negotiations before we reach the informal deadline of October, 2018
:15:22. > :15:27.so we can have six months of ratification. Before we get to all
:15:28. > :15:29.of that there is the small matter of triggering article 15. Here is my
:15:30. > :15:36.film on the Prime Minister's day. David Cameron warned if would amount
:15:37. > :15:43.to the gamble of the century. Today, Theresa May was hailed as the person
:15:44. > :15:49.of this century as she showed her hand, nine months after the UK voted
:15:50. > :15:52.to leave the EU. Downing Street has spent months sweating about how to
:15:53. > :15:59.play their hand over the triggering of Article 50. In the end, Britain's
:16:00. > :16:02.ambassador to the EU handed over a relatively short letter which
:16:03. > :16:08.combined words of comfort and words of warning. The Prime Minister's two
:16:09. > :16:13.audiences - eurosceptics in Britain and the remaining 27 members of the
:16:14. > :16:18.EU. To eurosceptics, the Prime Minister hailed a historic moment
:16:19. > :16:21.that will be irreversible, but in a mild toning down of her rhetoric
:16:22. > :16:25.about a sunny Brexit future, she warned of what she called
:16:26. > :16:30."consequences." Britain won't be present when rules for the European
:16:31. > :16:35.single market are drawn up. To the rest of the EU, the Prime Minister
:16:36. > :16:39.spoke of her desire to forge a deep and special partnership. But there
:16:40. > :16:45.was also an unmistakable warning that failure to agree a UK-EU deal
:16:46. > :16:51.would weaken co-operation in the fight against terrorism. The tone
:16:52. > :16:55.today was, I thought, a little reminder to the European Union that,
:16:56. > :16:59.actually, there is a lot in this for them as much as there is for us if
:17:00. > :17:05.we strike a reasonable agreement. The reality is that the UK actually
:17:06. > :17:08.is needed in a whole lot of areas of the European Union, not just trade,
:17:09. > :17:13.not just co-operation. In that sense, the co-operation on security,
:17:14. > :17:16.intelligence and policing. This message appeared not to be
:17:17. > :17:22.appreciated in the EU where it was seen as something of a threat.
:17:23. > :17:25.Theresa May's Labour redcressor as Home Secretary thought she had
:17:26. > :17:32.another audience in mind. I think the whole of that letter was a
:17:33. > :17:38.warning to her Eurosceptics and a bit on the security was
:17:39. > :17:42.predominantly about that. There were orbits of the letter, warning
:17:43. > :17:47.business that is they won't - they it will have more pew rocky to deal
:17:48. > :17:50.with to trade into the biggest commercial market on our doorstep.
:17:51. > :17:55.There was a hint of realism. Tony Blair in that phrase said it was the
:17:56. > :18:01.swivel eyed ones driving the bus. Maybe Theresa May has wrenched the
:18:02. > :18:05.wheel off of them. One pro-European Tory believes the Prime Minister was
:18:06. > :18:12.thinking of those who have no fear of leaving the EU without a deal. I
:18:13. > :18:16.think it demonstrates the very real adverse consequences of crashing out
:18:17. > :18:20.without a deal. It's showing it's not just about trade and WTO, but
:18:21. > :18:25.it's about losing security co-operation. That is a message for
:18:26. > :18:28.Europe and for those here in the UK who are saying that somehow no deal
:18:29. > :18:31.is a good option. That is one of the things I put to the Prime Minister
:18:32. > :18:38.today. She made it very clear she said - I'm really keen to get a good
:18:39. > :18:41.deal. This was unquestionably a day of high stakes, but our ever
:18:42. > :18:49.cautious Prime Minister went out of her way with messages carefully
:18:50. > :18:53.crafted for her various audiences to Sehwag's no reckless gambler. Nick
:18:54. > :18:56.Watt there. As you heard, Theresa May
:18:57. > :18:58.mentioned security 11 times The EU's chief Brexit negotiator,
:18:59. > :19:01.Guy Verhofstadt, accused the Prime Minister of a threat
:19:02. > :19:04.to weaken security commitments to the EU if Britain
:19:05. > :19:06.was denied a trade deal. So when I spoke earlier
:19:07. > :19:09.to Damien Green, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions,
:19:10. > :19:12.and one of Theresa May's most trusted colleagues in Cabinet,
:19:13. > :19:14.I started off by asking him It's not a threat, I think that's
:19:15. > :19:20.the misunderstanding. There was no threat
:19:21. > :19:27.in the Prime Minister's letter. All right, she says "in security
:19:28. > :19:30.terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our co-operation
:19:31. > :19:32.in the fight against crime Just explain to us then
:19:33. > :19:35.what would be weakened in the event of no trade deal,
:19:36. > :19:38.what would happen? Well, we have institutions
:19:39. > :19:41.inside the European Union of which we are part,
:19:42. > :19:44.which allow us to have daily, Things like the European Arrest
:19:45. > :19:51.Warrant and various things We can't divorce that
:19:52. > :19:54.from a trade deal? Obviously, we want a trade deal
:19:55. > :20:02.and obviously we want a security deal as well as part of the overall
:20:03. > :20:04.negotiations because we want there to be -
:20:05. > :20:07.So why can't we have a security deal It has been all bound
:20:08. > :20:15.up in our membership of the European Union,
:20:16. > :20:18.so what we want is a deal It's a way of saying,
:20:19. > :20:26.if you don't give us what we want, then we won't help
:20:27. > :20:28.you with security? I mean, the phrase you read out,
:20:29. > :20:33.the sentence you read out from the Prime Minister,
:20:34. > :20:36.is a statement that it's "We must work hard to
:20:37. > :20:40.avoid that outcome." Would we will be less willing then
:20:41. > :20:45.to share intelligence? Would we be less willing
:20:46. > :20:48.to extradite suspects or, as you say, deploy troops to protect
:20:49. > :20:50.Europe? We're still able to
:20:51. > :20:52.do all those things. We can do the last one
:20:53. > :20:59.because that's part of Nato, Well, sharing intelligence,
:21:00. > :21:03.that requires legal protocols. You can't just share intelligence
:21:04. > :21:06.without a legal basis for doing it. Those don't just disappear just
:21:07. > :21:08.because a trade deal isn't there? they disappear at the moment
:21:09. > :21:19.if you're not a member That's why we want to recast
:21:20. > :21:26.them because, I agree, of course these things
:21:27. > :21:27.are very important. They are important to our safety
:21:28. > :21:30.and important to the safety How does it even serve our own
:21:31. > :21:34.country's interest to suggest that that might be under threat or off
:21:35. > :21:36.the table now. The fact that we're leaving
:21:37. > :21:40.the European Union means that certain legal - things
:21:41. > :21:43.that we can now do legally, including intelligence co-operation,
:21:44. > :21:45.needs to have a new legal basis She said, ?in security terms,
:21:46. > :21:52.failure to reach an agreement would mean our co-operation
:21:53. > :21:55.in the fight against crime Because the things we can do legally
:21:56. > :22:02.as a member of the European Union, we couldn't do if we weren't
:22:03. > :22:05.a member of the European Union and we didn't reach
:22:06. > :22:07.a security agreement. It's - You're comfortable
:22:08. > :22:09.with that position? It's a very sensible point to make
:22:10. > :22:12.that there are huge numbers of areas where we want
:22:13. > :22:14.very close co-operation. It's a deal in other
:22:15. > :22:20.areas, like security. In this post-deal world
:22:21. > :22:23.that we have to imagine, what will the divorce
:22:24. > :22:25.settlement look like? Well, we haven't had anything formal
:22:26. > :22:30.back from the European Union yet. As you say, there are lots
:22:31. > :22:35.of numbers swirling around, but actually, until the negotiations
:22:36. > :22:41.start, I think Donald Tusk made clear today,
:22:42. > :22:44.that they will have their negotiating mandate ready
:22:45. > :22:46.by the end of April. So, at that point, it might be
:22:47. > :22:51.sensible to start talking money. Theresa May said the days of vast
:22:52. > :22:54.contributions will end. So it won't look like
:22:55. > :23:03.?200 million a week? Well, the days of large
:23:04. > :23:06.contributions will end but, however hard you try, you're not
:23:07. > :23:09.going to get me on what numbers we're aiming at because that
:23:10. > :23:12.would not be in the interests Yeah, but the British
:23:13. > :23:15.people are feeling really As you say, we had
:23:16. > :23:18.numbers on the bus. We've had numbers contradicted
:23:19. > :23:20.before Brexit, after Brexit. We know that we pay around
:23:21. > :23:22.?200 million a week. Tell us that we won't pay more
:23:23. > :23:26.than that at the end of this deal? Well, I mean, Philip Hammond has
:23:27. > :23:29.made clear that the sort of outer end of the figures
:23:30. > :23:33.aren't remotely realistic. So we won't pay more
:23:34. > :23:36.than ?200 million a week We will, obviously,
:23:37. > :23:39.we will pay for projects But, you know, what those
:23:40. > :23:47.projects are and, therefore, what the numbers are,
:23:48. > :23:51.it's way too early to say. But if part of the attraction
:23:52. > :23:55.of this was getting hold of our finances again,
:23:56. > :23:57.choosing what we buy and what we don't and what we send
:23:58. > :24:01.and what we don't, we are not You must be able to rule
:24:02. > :24:05.that out, can't you? We won't end up paying
:24:06. > :24:07.the same amount after... We will only be paying
:24:08. > :24:10.for things that are in You are quite right to say,
:24:11. > :24:16.we will be able to take our own decisions as to how we spend
:24:17. > :24:18.the money and there some European projects that we may
:24:19. > :24:22.wish to play a part in that What the numbers are,
:24:23. > :24:30.that's for the negotiations. Jonathan Hill was our man
:24:31. > :24:32.in Brussels until the Brexit vote. He resigned almost immediately
:24:33. > :24:35.afterwards from his post as EU He understands the mechanics
:24:36. > :24:46.of this day and the days Nice of you to come in Lord Hill. Do
:24:47. > :24:50.you think this will have momentum now. We are only four hours into
:24:51. > :24:53.this, it feels like a lifetime already? It's clearly, we are right
:24:54. > :24:58.at the beginning. I think the first thing we all need to do is take a
:24:59. > :25:01.deep breath and actually I think the intelligent way to think about the
:25:02. > :25:06.negotiation, in a way, it's slightly the other way round. Start with -
:25:07. > :25:09.where do we want to end up? One of the things about the European
:25:10. > :25:15.system, that I think people don't always appreciate over here, where
:25:16. > :25:19.we tend to think of it as being a bureaucratic inflexible system. It
:25:20. > :25:23.has some of those characteristics as well, it can, at the same time, be a
:25:24. > :25:31.highly flexible and political system. If it wants to do a deal,
:25:32. > :25:35.then a lot of these really complicated, technical issues can be
:25:36. > :25:40.sorted. Can be magically resolved. It's about hearts right now, not
:25:41. > :25:45.mechanics? I think a lot of it is about the heart and where he we want
:25:46. > :25:51.to get to, in terms of a new relationship, a new partnership at
:25:52. > :25:55.the end of it. We've done an awful lot in recent months talking about
:25:56. > :25:57.all the things that divide us. We haven't done very.
:25:58. > :26:02.About the things we have in common. Actually, the thing that strikes me
:26:03. > :26:05.about it is our shared history, our shared values and the fact that
:26:06. > :26:10.we're going to have a shared future. I thought Mrs May picked up some of
:26:11. > :26:14.that in her letter. She did. She told the BBC this evening that a
:26:15. > :26:18.comprehensive free trade agreement is possible. There would be a
:26:19. > :26:21.different relationship but with the same benefits. She outlined
:26:22. > :26:31.something similar to what we have now. You could have kept the
:26:32. > :26:35.portfolio, couldn't you? Things will have to cleaning a bit. When you
:26:36. > :26:42.have any policy change, whatever size it is, you know that there are
:26:43. > :26:46.always winners and losers. So we're about to set out on some of the
:26:47. > :26:51.biggest set of policy changes that we've been through in the last 40,
:26:52. > :26:56.50 years. Clearly, there are going to be parts of the economy that will
:26:57. > :26:59.be affected by the change. There will be some where there will be new
:27:00. > :27:04.opportunities. I think the way to think about it is to move on a bit
:27:05. > :27:09.from the slightlister rile polarised political debate we have and think
:27:10. > :27:12.about how can you minimise the downsize. How can you maximise the
:27:13. > :27:17.opportunity. How can you get on with it as fast as you possibly can? Do
:27:18. > :27:21.you think that tone was right. On the one hand we were saying it's
:27:22. > :27:25.conciliatory. She put out something akin to blackmail, didn't she, with
:27:26. > :27:29.the security threat. Damian Green disagrees with me. It sounded like -
:27:30. > :27:34.we will withdraw what we want, what we have on the table if we don't get
:27:35. > :27:39.stuff? I didn't read it as a blackmail threat. I read it as being
:27:40. > :27:43.a sensible way of trying to identify the things that we've got in common.
:27:44. > :27:48.Because I think, if you think about this from a European point of view,
:27:49. > :27:52.someone like me, who wishes the European Union well and wants the
:27:53. > :27:57.European continent to flourish, they need as much as we do to get through
:27:58. > :28:01.this process speedily. I think it's important for them that the message
:28:02. > :28:05.they communicate to the outside world is, actually, the EU can deal
:28:06. > :28:09.with something like this, take it in its stride and move on. They've got
:28:10. > :28:16.big issues of their own that they need to address. I think, for them,
:28:17. > :28:19.to approach it in a constructive way as we can makes sense economically
:28:20. > :28:23.and to try and secure and keep some of the things that we want to have
:28:24. > :28:26.in common. Then to get on with the things that they want to do to
:28:27. > :28:28.secure the future of the European Union. Lord Hill. Thank you. Thank
:28:29. > :28:35.you. Now back to Brussels and Evan. It was perhaps a myth to think
:28:36. > :28:38.that Brussels has been the centre of power in Europe,
:28:39. > :28:41.it's more the meeting point, No, the real power lies
:28:42. > :28:46.with the governments of the EU, and politics will probably shape
:28:47. > :28:48.the European offer to the UK. No capital is more
:28:49. > :28:50.important than Berlin, and our diplomatic editor,
:28:51. > :28:55.Mark Urban, is there for us. Mark, this has been
:28:56. > :28:57.no surprise today. What's Angela Merkel
:28:58. > :29:06.been saying about it? Well, it's very interesting to see
:29:07. > :29:10.the degree of message control, if you like, that goes from here to the
:29:11. > :29:14.key institutions. The German line is very similar to the one that the
:29:15. > :29:18.President of the European Parliament gave to you earlier - let's get the
:29:19. > :29:22.circumstances of the so-called divorce straight before we move on
:29:23. > :29:27.to talking about the bigger relationship, any trade details,
:29:28. > :29:30.that kind of thing. Now, key to this divorce issue is the British
:29:31. > :29:34.contribution in paying out the remainder of the budget period. If
:29:35. > :29:37.the Brits carry on refusing to pay, I think we can be confident the
:29:38. > :29:42.Germans will simply wait them out for as many months as that seems to
:29:43. > :29:46.be happening. They really want to avoid a knife fight between EU
:29:47. > :29:50.countries over who makes up the shortfall. Then there is the issue
:29:51. > :29:55.of foreign nationals. Some European countries are tougher on these
:29:56. > :30:00.issues. Some are less so. Of course, as Europe's economic powerhouse with
:30:01. > :30:02.by far the largest contribution to its budget, Germany's attitude will
:30:03. > :30:08.be pivotal. The day started with news
:30:09. > :30:13.that the Brexit phoney war, those months between the referendum
:30:14. > :30:17.and today, was over. Many German politicians had hoped
:30:18. > :30:21.that Britain would change its mind The number of people in Britain that
:30:22. > :30:32.think that the decision was right to leave the European Union will go
:30:33. > :30:36.down and down and, at the end of the day, the British Government
:30:37. > :30:40.has to decide whether they should follow the way or that they should
:30:41. > :30:43.probably follow the change in mood I think, in every stage
:30:44. > :30:47.of the negotiations, the German government and German
:30:48. > :30:50.politics will say, OK, we accept to stop and to
:30:51. > :31:00.throwaway that letter. Article 50 is reversible
:31:01. > :31:02.then, in your view? Like many countries though, Germany
:31:03. > :31:05.has plenty of other priorities, that the offices of Bildt,
:31:06. > :31:08.the biggest selling paper, the editor explained why today's
:31:09. > :31:10.news hadn't even made People in Germany worry a lot more
:31:11. > :31:15.about Donald Trump right now They actually haven't been worried
:31:16. > :31:20.about Brexit last year before the referendum because no-one
:31:21. > :31:22.thought it was possible I think there was a mix of regret,
:31:23. > :31:29.but also lack of interest. Thinking, oh, it's the British again
:31:30. > :31:36.wanting their own way. Many Germans maybe slow
:31:37. > :31:38.to pick up on what this process will now involve,
:31:39. > :31:41.but for some there are At this English bookshop,
:31:42. > :31:45.Another Country, we met British expats whose fate,
:31:46. > :31:48.along with that of EU citizens in Britain,
:31:49. > :31:49.ranks among the most I've been in Germany quite
:31:50. > :31:57.a long time and I feel like Britain has, kind of,
:31:58. > :32:01.abandoned me personally almost. It's a very personal
:32:02. > :32:05.reaction, I think. People in the UK, I'm sure, can look
:32:06. > :32:09.at Trump and go - oh, he's a joke. The whole says he's
:32:10. > :32:15.a joke, it's clear. But when they look at Brexit
:32:16. > :32:17.they don't understand that the whole world,
:32:18. > :32:19.including Germany, anywhere that's broadly
:32:20. > :32:20.similar it's like - Why Germany's leader said today that
:32:21. > :32:27.issues relating to separation, such as expats and the UK's share
:32:28. > :32:31.of the EU budget, will have to come first before any talks
:32:32. > :32:37.on the wider relationship. Many here don't rate Britain's
:32:38. > :32:40.chances of exploiting splits German priorities will be -
:32:41. > :32:48.how can we find a unified position and protecting the integrity
:32:49. > :32:50.of the European Union. That is Germany's
:32:51. > :33:02.number one priority. Divide and rule strategy will
:33:03. > :33:07.probably backfire. Talking to politicians here since the
:33:08. > :33:11.referendum, I have heard regret, surprise and even scorn, but very
:33:12. > :33:17.little understanding of why so many Britons voted to leave. For many
:33:18. > :33:22.Germans, the EU's interests and their own national interests are
:33:23. > :33:27.indistinguishable and may well lead this country to take some tough
:33:28. > :33:34.negotiating positions. I expect that Europe should concentrate on more
:33:35. > :33:39.forward-looking things and sorry to say, foolish decision to leave the
:33:40. > :33:42.European Union. Now negotiations begin in earnest, but with many of
:33:43. > :33:46.the key leaders here is still utterly puzzled by Britain's
:33:47. > :33:50.decision, reaching common understandings by not be easy.
:33:51. > :33:52.Let's continue the discussion with two members of
:33:53. > :33:56.Ska Keller is a Green MEP from Germany and Robert Ziller
:33:57. > :33:58.is a Latvian MEP, on the right, in the European Conservatives
:33:59. > :34:14.Thank you for joining us. First of all, very briefly on security, did
:34:15. > :34:19.you think that the British were trying to blackmail Europeans were
:34:20. > :34:25.some words on security? If you read the Prime Minister's letter,
:34:26. > :34:30.sentence by sentence, but the issue is serious, the security for my
:34:31. > :34:35.region and Poland, security is very important. What did you think? With
:34:36. > :34:40.a British trying to say something by putting the sentences next to each
:34:41. > :34:44.other? It certainly did raise the attention of everyone reading it. It
:34:45. > :34:48.was clear that the Prime Minister was trying to find something where
:34:49. > :34:53.she could say, I'm putting my eggs in the basket, I am not sure that
:34:54. > :35:00.this will solve many issues, because security is important, but most
:35:01. > :35:04.sites stand to lose. Both sides stand to lose if we do not reach an
:35:05. > :35:09.economic deal, isn't that really the point? We all stand to lose on
:35:10. > :35:14.anything and that is maybe what she was driving home. We all stand to
:35:15. > :35:21.lose and that is why it is a sad day today. It is very sad and indeed,
:35:22. > :35:24.for as it is important that in the future we have close corporation
:35:25. > :35:29.with the people in Great Britain, many of whom have actually voted to
:35:30. > :35:35.remain in the European Union but it is also clear that when you leave a
:35:36. > :35:42.union like this, you cannot keep all the privileges that come with
:35:43. > :35:52.membership. I really see some concerns, we saw a draft resolution,
:35:53. > :35:55., but there are paragraphs about Article 50 and a real sense that you
:35:56. > :35:59.have to agree on the divorce that was drawn and at the same time, you
:36:00. > :36:06.have to agree on the framework for future relations and if you read the
:36:07. > :36:11.resolution, you can see that there can only be finalisation of the
:36:12. > :36:14.divorce and only when the UK became a separate country, only then we
:36:15. > :36:19.will make an agreement about how we will trade and do the economy. I
:36:20. > :36:25.think it is the wrong approach and it should be fixed. Do you think the
:36:26. > :36:31.Parliament is getting it wrong? Not only Parliament. I think some member
:36:32. > :36:37.states reported the same issue. I would support the majority decision
:36:38. > :36:41.of the Parliament, because it would be very schizophrenic as the
:36:42. > :36:46.European Union doing a deal with one of our still members. At least the
:36:47. > :36:49.principles, we have to be clear about how we settle the separation
:36:50. > :36:55.before we can talk about the future. What about the money? To see how
:36:56. > :37:00.much we are willing to give, before we know how willing and flexible you
:37:01. > :37:25.will be on the issues that matter to us, it
:37:26. > :37:29.is not reasonable, is it? On the money issue, it is clear that we
:37:30. > :37:32.have taken collective decisions where the UK was part of. The UK
:37:33. > :37:35.cannot run away from it, if you have a divorce, you cannot say forget
:37:36. > :37:38.about the kids, I will not pay for it. You have to contribute if you
:37:39. > :37:40.want to leave the European Union. On the money issue, you have two sides,
:37:41. > :37:44.liabilities and assets. Everyone speaks about liabilities. You have
:37:45. > :37:48.to buy our share out. I hide -- I think we have to be fair on money.
:37:49. > :37:54.If you think about money and nothing else, I think it is wrong. Come the
:37:55. > :37:57.vote you have in the European Parliament, you have to take it or
:37:58. > :38:02.leave it, you will ultimately take it if it is better than no deal at
:38:03. > :38:06.all, isn't that right? All the posturing is irrelevant. If you are
:38:07. > :38:11.faced with a deal that is bad but better than nothing, you have to
:38:12. > :38:15.take it. The Parliament, with its resolution that we are going to vote
:38:16. > :38:19.on next week, if it is adopted, it will make clear, there are some
:38:20. > :38:24.strong points. When it comes to the rights of citizens of the EU in the
:38:25. > :38:28.UK, this will be watched very carefully and also the financial
:38:29. > :38:33.issue and many other issues and the Parliament has proven, it's a had no
:38:34. > :38:42.too bad deals. We need to leave it there. One strategy, if someone
:38:43. > :38:46.really wants to punish the UK because of Brexit, because other
:38:47. > :38:50.member states don't follow in the future, it is a risky strategy. We
:38:51. > :39:00.can say what kind of union will exist in the future. I think we have
:39:01. > :39:03.to... No punishment, but very fair. We need to leave it there.
:39:04. > :39:05.I started by asking whether any new deal will settle
:39:06. > :39:09.It's not the question the rest of Europe are asking -
:39:10. > :39:14.The direction is set but, in the UK, the arguments continue, which takes
:39:15. > :39:22.It's no secret that Europe has brought more Conservative leaders
:39:23. > :39:25.closer to destruction than virtually any other policy.
:39:26. > :39:29.David Cameron knew of the dangers of banging on about Europe.
:39:30. > :39:33.He went in with eyes wide open, but he was still felled by Europe.
:39:34. > :39:34.Today marks perhaps the high watermark for Conservative
:39:35. > :39:36.Eurosceptics that they themselves never believed would happen.
:39:37. > :39:39.In a moment, we'll speak to one of those, MP Jacob Rees Mogg,
:39:40. > :39:43.but first to one of the last of the Europhile big beasts -
:39:44. > :40:00.Nice to see you. How does today feel to you? It is the day in which
:40:01. > :40:07.Britain lost more power and influence than any other day of my
:40:08. > :40:11.peacetime life. We have got influence still, haven't we? We will
:40:12. > :40:17.see. You don't believe that we wield any cards in this deal at all? I
:40:18. > :40:22.don't think so. You might have heard Lauderhill, he said there would be a
:40:23. > :40:26.lot of heartache at the beginning, a lot of people, the slanging match
:40:27. > :40:29.that comes at the beginning of a break-up, people will think
:40:30. > :40:35.rationally, we have to succeed and Europe has to succeed. We might get
:40:36. > :40:40.a deal, but it will be significantly worse than our present position. How
:40:41. > :40:47.do you feel regarding your own party now? You have seen the slings and
:40:48. > :40:53.arrows of Europe and what it has thrown up for the Conservatives, is
:40:54. > :40:56.that debate now over? Know. Every Conservative Prime Minister that I
:40:57. > :41:04.have worked for since the war, including the present one, has
:41:05. > :41:07.argued logically that our national self interest is inextricably
:41:08. > :41:11.interwoven with Europe. Theresa May's speech in April last year was
:41:12. > :41:17.highly impressive. She has changed her mind. I haven't. You are still
:41:18. > :41:22.going to fight on? I am going to do my best to ensure that Parliament,
:41:23. > :41:26.the sovereign guardian of our country has the chance to make the
:41:27. > :41:32.key decisions and I am going to do my best to articulate the
:41:33. > :41:36.frustrations of the 48% who voted against leaving, who feel better
:41:37. > :41:44.that they are being ignored and that their voices not been heard. I will
:41:45. > :41:47.do my best to give them some sort of voice. Some will look and say this
:41:48. > :41:50.is an extraordinary thing, you have got the most popular Conservative
:41:51. > :41:54.Prime Minister for a lifetime, the Brexiteers won fair and square, you
:41:55. > :41:58.must accept that you are out of touch with your party and with the
:41:59. > :42:06.direction the country is going on now. In public life, you can decide
:42:07. > :42:11.value are there. I have views. They happen to be the views of my party
:42:12. > :42:16.all my political life and I have not seen any evidence at all that I
:42:17. > :42:20.should change them. And so, I have only ever voted against my party
:42:21. > :42:24.twice on substantive issues, on the race relations Bill, three weeks
:42:25. > :42:28.later, the party changed its mind, on the poll tax and that enabled
:42:29. > :42:33.John Major to win a decisive victory. We will see whether I am
:42:34. > :42:37.right or wrong. The party can still change is mine? Certainly. The
:42:38. > :42:43.essence of where we are today, is not the phraseology of the letter,
:42:44. > :42:48.or what matters, is what the Europeans tell us they are prepared
:42:49. > :42:54.to do as a deal. Effectively, if I may put it graphically, at the
:42:55. > :42:57.moment, we sit on the Council of ministers, we influence, British
:42:58. > :43:06.self interest, the largest trading partner that we. Tomorrow, they will
:43:07. > :43:09.make the decisions about the trading conditions, the law, the
:43:10. > :43:14.specifications and we won't even have an empty chair in the Council
:43:15. > :43:20.of ministers arguing for British self interest. Thank you very much.
:43:21. > :43:23.You heard Lord Heseltine there speaking directly, saying that we
:43:24. > :43:28.have given up more power than he has seen in his lifetime today. I
:43:29. > :43:33.fundamentally disagree. We have taken power back to the United
:43:34. > :43:37.Kingdom. You have to remember that the rules of the European Union
:43:38. > :43:43.affect 100% our economy and only 13% of our economy trades with Europe.
:43:44. > :43:46.We have been receiving rules passed by qualified majority vote that the
:43:47. > :43:50.British electorate could not stop, democratically, the only way they
:43:51. > :43:55.could stop them was by leaving the European Union. 87% of the economy
:43:56. > :43:59.is not dependent on the EU, so we have reclaimed power. No one really
:44:00. > :44:00.knows what is coming next, Damian Green could not even guarantee we
:44:01. > :44:18.would be paying less for the EU after we left! It is a ridiculous
:44:19. > :44:21.setup! It is obvious we will be playing less. All future events are
:44:22. > :44:23.unknown. That is the nature of mankind, you don't know what the
:44:24. > :44:26.weather will be like tomorrow. You do not move into a house that you
:44:27. > :44:29.have never seen before without having some sense of what you are
:44:30. > :44:32.buying. We know exactly what we will be doing in that sense because this
:44:33. > :44:34.is what we did prior to joining the European Union, we are going to
:44:35. > :44:37.control our own destiny, we are a member of the Security Council and
:44:38. > :44:39.of Nato and in terms of our international influence we are
:44:40. > :44:48.stronger because we are doing it for ourselves. Take the World Trade
:44:49. > :44:51.Organisation, we all have or own feed on the WTO,. That is a better
:44:52. > :44:54.position. I want to talk about the party, because we have both a view
:44:55. > :44:59.from the Conservative Party here and yet you could not be further apart.
:45:00. > :45:03.Does it feel to you like the disagreements are there, do you feel
:45:04. > :45:07.you can walk on and leave the likes of Lord Heseltine behind? He is an
:45:08. > :45:12.enormously distinguished member of the party who has been a loyal
:45:13. > :45:18.supporter and servant for decades. There is no question of leaving him
:45:19. > :45:22.behind. I went to speak to Dominic Grieve and other than on the EU, I
:45:23. > :45:27.agreed with almost everything he says. This is indeed a full-time
:45:28. > :45:30.party and has been for a long time, but there are many issues were many
:45:31. > :45:35.Conservatives agree on a whole range of issues and actually, I think once
:45:36. > :45:39.we have left, it will be a real opportunity for the party to
:45:40. > :45:46.reunite. People are entitled, of course, to argue for positions they
:45:47. > :45:54.have held for many years. It's said that the British
:45:55. > :45:57.were surprised to find their famous tolerance and phlegm severely tested
:45:58. > :45:59.by the Brexit vote. Work colleagues, even husbands
:46:00. > :46:01.and wives, woke up last June Here at Newsnight, we felt
:46:02. > :46:05.that our cherished public service remit was meaningless unless we did
:46:06. > :46:08.a little to pour oil So that's exactly
:46:09. > :46:11.what we did - a little. We sent Stephen Smith
:46:12. > :46:12.to Stratford-upon-Avon, where the breakdown of the vote
:46:13. > :46:15.mirrored the national trend, to see if he could organise
:46:16. > :46:21.a reconciliation tea party So Newsnight said to me -
:46:22. > :46:25.we want you to close our special three hour Brexit programme,
:46:26. > :46:29.why don't you go to Stratford-upon-Avon,
:46:30. > :46:31.where the voters were very divided and see if leavers and remainers
:46:32. > :46:35.can be friends again. This I'll be perfect,
:46:36. > :46:42.let's do the show right here. Put on a little function, they said,
:46:43. > :46:46.on the very British basis that there's nothing that can't be solved
:46:47. > :46:51.by lashings of tea and cake and Morris dancing,
:46:52. > :46:57.of which more later. Spring draws on in Stratford,
:46:58. > :47:02.high time we heard from the Swan of Avon himself, on the vexed
:47:03. > :47:05.question of divided houses. Two households, both
:47:06. > :47:21.alike in dignity. In fair Stratford,
:47:22. > :47:28.where we lay our scene, from ancient grudge break
:47:29. > :47:30.to new mutiny. There never was a story
:47:31. > :47:41.of more woe than this - of those who'd stay
:47:42. > :47:43.and those who'd go. You two are best
:47:44. > :47:49.buddies, aren't you? And, has it affected
:47:50. > :47:57.your friendship? We've had some quite
:47:58. > :48:00.heated conversations. Both of my children and their other
:48:01. > :48:10.halves really gave me a severe telling off
:48:11. > :48:15.because I was a Brexiteer. My son is a consultant anaesthetist
:48:16. > :48:19.in the NHS and as soon as we voted for Brexit he said -
:48:20. > :48:23.where's my ?250,000 a week? Do we need to do a big job
:48:24. > :48:31.on mending our relationship I think people have been quite
:48:32. > :48:36.personally insulting to each other, But we weren't about to let those
:48:37. > :48:43.tensions spoil our tea party, not while everyone was having such
:48:44. > :48:49.a good time. The anger has died down from,
:48:50. > :48:56.obviously, the remainers and the leavers as well, you know,
:48:57. > :48:59.almost like a football match But we have to rub our shoulders
:49:00. > :49:03.and we have to be, you know, If every single part of society,
:49:04. > :49:12.every different component part, doesn't put in an effort now to pull
:49:13. > :49:15.together, the great opportunity that Brexit is going to give,
:49:16. > :49:18.over the medium term, will be wasted because so much
:49:19. > :49:21.talent, so much effort, so much Dischuffment is something worthy
:49:22. > :49:30.of that place there, the theatre. How far have we helped
:49:31. > :49:36.today, not much? It's nice to get people together
:49:37. > :49:41.and it's really interesting to see that people voted either way
:49:42. > :49:46.for passionate reasons. Clearing the decks for one last
:49:47. > :49:59.attraction on our Brexit bandstand. It's the men and women
:50:00. > :50:01.of the Shakespeare Morris performing a rarely seen dance
:50:02. > :50:04.of fertility and reconciliation. They eschewed their wooden
:50:05. > :50:06.staves in favour of Steve Smith, the Old
:50:07. > :50:32.Bard, in Stratford. Trouble is, we cant work out
:50:33. > :50:36.whether we can have our cake, We'll see what our panel choose
:50:37. > :50:41.at the end of the show. Weve talked strategy and security,
:50:42. > :50:43.trade and timings but fundamentally this is about something bigger
:50:44. > :50:45.than all that. Its about the kind of
:50:46. > :50:47.country we now become - Joining me now is the historian
:50:48. > :50:52.and writer Max Hastings, former political editor
:50:53. > :50:54.of the Sun Trevor Kavanagh, journalist and film maker Billy JD
:50:55. > :51:00.Porter and the Labour MP Kate Hoey. Warm welcome to all of us. Kate, if
:51:01. > :51:03.I start with you, does it seem to you does it feel like a leap forward
:51:04. > :51:06.or a yearning for the past. What is behind this move? Oh, no, it's very
:51:07. > :51:08.much looking forward and very confident. I feel this is going to
:51:09. > :51:12.really wake the United Kingdom up to being able to look at new ideas, to
:51:13. > :51:17.do things differently. To get that barrier of the straitjacket of the
:51:18. > :51:21.EU, which always hung over us. One of the things that really happened
:51:22. > :51:25.is that people with new ideas can and, you know, interesting things
:51:26. > :51:30.will be able to express that much more. The civil service, which I
:51:31. > :51:34.think has been, kind of, straitjacketed and dmras complacent
:51:35. > :51:37.over the fact that the EU has been there all the time. I think that
:51:38. > :51:40.will wake up. British politics will actually change because we will now
:51:41. > :51:43.know that when we vote for a party and they say they will do something,
:51:44. > :51:48.we can't blame anybody else if they don't do that. Kate speaks with the
:51:49. > :51:53.voice of freedom, a breath of fresh air there? I couldn't disagree more
:51:54. > :51:57.strongly. I have never seen anything so grotesque as a celebration over
:51:58. > :52:02.an expensive divorce. One of the tran disof what is going on, those
:52:03. > :52:06.who wanted Brexit, talk as if Brexit was a policy that was going to do
:52:07. > :52:11.things for Britain. If you look at the major problems facing Britain,
:52:12. > :52:14.huge trade deficit, education system, funding the NHS, funding the
:52:15. > :52:19.welfare system, how to make Britain pay its way in the 2st century,
:52:20. > :52:22.getting out of Europe will do absolutely nothing to advance these
:52:23. > :52:27.things. It may well push them backwards. To me, one of the things
:52:28. > :52:31.I fear, some of us found this a divisive issue at the time of the
:52:32. > :52:36.referendum. I think things are getting worse because those who are
:52:37. > :52:41.triumphalist today about leaving, for some of us it's a backward
:52:42. > :52:44.vision of Britain. They want a Miss Marm Britain, I'm old enough to
:52:45. > :52:48.remember what it was like. Britain today is a much more successful
:52:49. > :52:56.country than it was in the 1950s. The UK, I think, have voted to go
:52:57. > :53:05.back to the 1950s. That is the negativity coming over from a lot of
:53:06. > :53:10.people - A lot of business MEPmen - No, they want to get on with it and
:53:11. > :53:15.see outside the EU. 187 countries are not in the EU. They manage very
:53:16. > :53:19.well. I feel positive and confident. What we want to see now is everybody
:53:20. > :53:24.being able to work to give their own ideas of how this can move us
:53:25. > :53:27.forward and it is very sad that so many people still want to be
:53:28. > :53:32.negative. What will they do to advance the issues I mentioned?
:53:33. > :53:36.Billy, one of the things, you talked about a Miss Marm Britain. If we are
:53:37. > :53:40.recognising there was a generational gap, wasn't there, in the voting,
:53:41. > :53:43.how do you see this? Whether you think you have been saddled with
:53:44. > :53:49.something? Yeah. This wasn't the outcome that people my age wanted.
:53:50. > :53:54.We categorically did not want this result. Jool I think that it's just
:53:55. > :53:59.going to cement this further distrust between young people and
:54:00. > :54:02.people in power here. I think that people my age have a complete lack
:54:03. > :54:06.of faith in politics. Why wouldn't we? We have a Prime Minister that
:54:07. > :54:13.the public didn't vote for. Who is leading a party who have just come
:54:14. > :54:15.out of a huge scandal that, basically, delegitimatises the whole
:54:16. > :54:20.campaign that brought them into power. This must strike a chord for
:54:21. > :54:23.someone so close to political journalism and the establishment?
:54:24. > :54:29.The problem about this sort of view of the way that we now face the
:54:30. > :54:32.future is two dismal by half, as it was indeed during the referendum
:54:33. > :54:37.campaign when we were warned that the world would, basically, end on
:54:38. > :54:40.the 23rd June if we voted out. Nothing of that short happened
:54:41. > :54:48.whatsoever. It's the start of the process. Every single forecast of
:54:49. > :54:52.gloom and doom proved to be wrong and the reverse of the case. We have
:54:53. > :54:56.done extremely well. That is likely to be the case in the coming months
:54:57. > :54:59.and years. It won't be easy. I think the European Union, especially
:55:00. > :55:03.France, is going to make life extremely difficult for us at times.
:55:04. > :55:08.I think in three, four, five years' time we will look back and think
:55:09. > :55:13.with huge relief we have taken the decision. Brexiteers say this is
:55:14. > :55:16.about being more open, more worldly. More outward looking, yet you talk
:55:17. > :55:22.to foreigners in this country, since the Brexit vote who say they have
:55:23. > :55:27.felt increased xenophobia. How do you reconcile those two outlooks? I
:55:28. > :55:32.want very much the decision taken that the EU citizens here and
:55:33. > :55:36.British citizens in the EU will be able to remain and carry on as they
:55:37. > :55:42.have been doing. Not just in policy, in tone, culture and acceptance? All
:55:43. > :55:46.of those things could have happened if we found the EU countries not
:55:47. > :55:51.wanting to engage in that debate. The Prime Minister tried to get this
:55:52. > :55:56.some time ago, an agreement. I do think that once that is settled, I
:55:57. > :56:00.think that will make a huge difference to how people feel
:56:01. > :56:03.because there is a lot of fear being put around when, after all, it's
:56:04. > :56:08.going to be two years before we actually leave and somehow the way
:56:09. > :56:14.the media has put - maybe the fear game is still being played. We have
:56:15. > :56:18.to hope for the best.s when one says the worst does not happen. We had a
:56:19. > :56:24.13% devaluation. Was that good news the fact that the pound is worth -
:56:25. > :56:28.It's regarded as good news. Come on. To respond to what you are asking
:56:29. > :56:31.for. The nitty-gritty of the numbers no-one know what is the answers are.
:56:32. > :56:36.No-one seems to know what is going to happen. Physical you are talking
:56:37. > :56:40.about tone and the way British feel and the way other people feel about
:56:41. > :56:46.Britain, I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed. When we are children, we
:56:47. > :56:50.are taught about the spirit of inclusion and the strength of team
:56:51. > :56:56.work. You think that's gone with the Brexit vote? It's gone with the most
:56:57. > :57:00.powerful political leaders over the world? I think you are expressing a
:57:01. > :57:05.personal point of view and maybe expressing the view of quite a lot
:57:06. > :57:09.of young people. I don't think it's a majority view. 75% of young
:57:10. > :57:14.people. You have to take into account - You have to take that into
:57:15. > :57:18.account we will be dead quickly than her generation will. They are
:57:19. > :57:21.saddled with something they didn't want? But the point is that there
:57:22. > :57:25.are other things to be considered as well. It's not just Britain wanting
:57:26. > :57:29.to leave the European Union. An awful lot of people across the
:57:30. > :57:32.European Union in countries that you would be surprised by are even more
:57:33. > :57:37.strongly anti-the European Union than we were before the vote. Even
:57:38. > :57:42.the Pope, the Pope of all people, in Rome of all places, was saying, only
:57:43. > :57:46.on the birthday, the 60th birthday of the European Union this weekend,
:57:47. > :57:51.that the European Union is dying. Now, this is not just scare tactics
:57:52. > :57:56.or fear campaigns, this is the mood that is in fact prevailing across
:57:57. > :58:01.the European Union. I agree. Where I don't agree, Michael Heseltine is an
:58:02. > :58:04.old friend of mine. Michael will not accept that the European project has
:58:05. > :58:09.gone horribly wrong. I would agree with you. It has gone horribly
:58:10. > :58:14.wrong. But on the other hand, to some of us the benefits, both - the
:58:15. > :58:18.cultural importance of being part of Europe and also the huge economic
:58:19. > :58:24.advantage - Let me ask you something personal. Would you prefer now the
:58:25. > :58:38.European project to wither away and die. That will give us a sense we've
:58:39. > :58:43.made the right choice? It will. Michael Howard, who is 94, the good
:58:44. > :58:48.Michael Howard, not the politician. He was saying the other week over
:58:49. > :58:51.the referendum he said the great lesson in my long lifetime has been
:58:52. > :58:54.most of the problems are best addressed together with partners and
:58:55. > :59:01.allies however difficult. That is how some of us feel. The idea of
:59:02. > :59:06.people celebrating only fools like Boris Johnson or David Davis will
:59:07. > :59:10.celebrate. I thought in the House of Commons it was a calm and sensible
:59:11. > :59:12.reaction to Theresa May's statement. Thank you very much. We have
:59:13. > :59:21.important work to do, as you know. It's time toll decide what to do
:59:22. > :59:26.with the cake. We weren't allowed the cake knife. We have this one. I
:59:27. > :59:30.have to ask my guests. You can lower the light. Will you have your cake
:59:31. > :59:35.and eat it? I will start with you, Billy? I will eat it because I'm
:59:36. > :59:41.hungry. We will go for the hear. Yeah, the heart of Europe and the
:59:42. > :59:44.heart of Britain. Oh. As we say our goodbyes we leave you with Europeans
:59:45. > :59:55.who wanted to bid farewell in return to us. Good night.
:59:56. > :00:05.Stay. Do go, but please come back home. Hi, Great Britain, it's too
:00:06. > :00:09.bad you are leaving. I'm really going to miss you I'm going to miss
:00:10. > :00:14.from England fish and chips and beer. But you're going to miss all
:00:15. > :00:18.this. It was love at first sight. I thought it was going to be forever.
:00:19. > :00:25.But you just said to me that you don't love me any more. I love your
:00:26. > :00:29.pop culture. If people don't care if they get wasted on a week day. God
:00:30. > :00:33.Save The Queen. You will soon be crawling back. This is very sad
:00:34. > :00:56.indeed. I do appreciate the cheaper pound. Auf Wiedersehen.
:00:57. > :01:00.Hello there, warmest day of the year on the way for Thursday. We start
:01:01. > :01:04.with cloud. We have outbreaks of rain too. That will get pushed
:01:05. > :01:08.northwards and towards the west with most of the wet weather sitting over
:01:09. > :01:09.the Irish Sea allowing brighter