:00:00. > :00:00.Tonight, an exclusive interview with John Brennan,
:00:07. > :00:07.the head of the CIA, until Donald Trump
:00:08. > :00:14.What does he think of the presidential Twitter strategy?
:00:15. > :00:23.I think that there are some things that have been tweeted coming out of
:00:24. > :00:30.Washington, where the care was not taken and that was, it was not, the
:00:31. > :00:32.individual who tweeted it was not mindful of the importance that
:00:33. > :00:35.people attach to the words of a president.
:00:36. > :00:37.He warns about the dangers of America going it alone
:00:38. > :00:40.against North Korea and tells us there should be a competency
:00:41. > :00:43.-- and decries Trump's plans for a travel ban.
:00:44. > :00:46.The St Petersburg blast, which has killed as many as ten people
:00:47. > :00:51.The Russian Prime minister is nvestigating a suicide bombing.
:00:52. > :00:54.We'll ask who is the prime suspect in a country with no
:00:55. > :01:03.We remember the civil rights ( activist Darcus Howe.
:01:04. > :01:10.I believe that we are faced with a serious potential, that is the
:01:11. > :01:12.overwhelming intervention of blacks on the current stage of history in
:01:13. > :01:15.Britain. And the war on airborne
:01:16. > :01:17.Deisel particulates. The Mayor of London is expected
:01:18. > :01:21.to announce tomorrow morning a toxin tax on the fuel,
:01:22. > :01:23.forcing drivers to pay In the studio, a former Top Gear
:01:24. > :01:28.presenter says it's all nonsense. Friends of the Earth
:01:29. > :01:38.says it's about time. He was Barack Obama's head
:01:39. > :01:44.of the CIA - in the situation room -- he departed office the day Donald
:01:45. > :01:49.Trump became president. John Brennan will deliver
:01:50. > :01:50.the Dimbleby Lecture on BBC One tomorrow night,
:01:51. > :01:53.but tonight, he talks to Newsnight about the threat from North Korea,
:01:54. > :01:57.and whether Donald Trump's promise of US unilateral action is wise
:01:58. > :02:00.if China will not help. He is scathing about the president's
:02:01. > :02:03.proposed ban on travellers from certain Muslim countries,
:02:04. > :02:06.and he told us the Trump White House notion of a deep state -
:02:07. > :02:08.including the intelligence agencies I began by asking him
:02:09. > :02:15.if President Trump was right to say that if China won't solve the issue
:02:16. > :02:27.of North Korea, America will do. North Korea does pose a very serious
:02:28. > :02:32.challenge for The Asian region and for the world because of its
:02:33. > :02:36.continued march on a nuclear weapons programme. China holds a lot of sway
:02:37. > :02:41.with North Korea. I think it's critically important for the United
:02:42. > :02:44.States to continue and to deepen the discussion with China about how best
:02:45. > :02:48.to manage this North Korean challenge. But the North Korean
:02:49. > :02:53.issue is a complicated and complex one. It doesn't lend itself to
:02:54. > :02:57.simple solutions. There's no the a simple military solution to it,
:02:58. > :03:02.given that North Korea has a tremendous amount of fire power,
:03:03. > :03:06.artillery that could rain down on Seoul, if there was going to be
:03:07. > :03:13.military action. So I am just hoping that Mr Trump and his advisors have
:03:14. > :03:18.spent the last couple months really learning and understanding what the
:03:19. > :03:23.challenge is, what the implications are of certain policy courses. This
:03:24. > :03:29.is something that requires a very thoughtful and measure add preach.
:03:30. > :03:33.President Trump says that using the term "radical Islamic terrorism"
:03:34. > :03:38.will help win the US win the War on Terror, do you agree? No, I don't. A
:03:39. > :03:45.lot of people say that. When you refer to the terrorists as following
:03:46. > :03:49.radical Islam, it legitimises the terrorists, in terms that they're
:03:50. > :03:54.actually carrying out a legitimate tenant of the Islamic faith and
:03:55. > :03:58.they're not. Do you think that Donald Trump's proposed ban on
:03:59. > :04:04.several Muslim majority countries would make America safer? I think
:04:05. > :04:10.it's very important that there be measures taken to protect countries
:04:11. > :04:15.from individuals who may be trying to enter the borders for terrorist
:04:16. > :04:19.purposes. This proposed executive order really, I think, was too
:04:20. > :04:24.simplistic and misguided. Do you think it would be counterproductive?
:04:25. > :04:29.I do. Because first of all, a lot of citizens from those countries, who
:04:30. > :04:34.have very legitimate reason to travel to the United States, family,
:04:35. > :04:38.personal, professional, educational. I think they will really see this as
:04:39. > :04:44.reflecting a different approach and a different tone from the United
:04:45. > :04:48.States, which has prided itself over our 241 years welcoming people from
:04:49. > :04:53.all walks of life in all countries and to me, I think they're going to
:04:54. > :04:59.see it as profiling specifically nationalities. US intelligence is
:05:00. > :05:02.suggesting that WikiLeaks are helping the Russiansment do you
:05:03. > :05:06.think Julian Assange is unwittingly being used by the Russians? He may
:05:07. > :05:10.be unwittingly being used by the Russians but I think he's wittingly
:05:11. > :05:14.advancing Russian interests and making sure that their objectives
:05:15. > :05:24.and goals and agendas are being pursued. Maybe he is naive enough or
:05:25. > :05:29.uninformed enough that he is being duped by the Russians. I think he is
:05:30. > :05:34.well aware that he is a pawn in their hands. Why do you think Donald
:05:35. > :05:41.Trump's so well disposed to Vladimir Putin? You'd have to ask him. Have
:05:42. > :05:47.you actually seen evidence that the Russians have been compromising
:05:48. > :05:50.material, for example, what the Russians call compromat on Trump for
:05:51. > :05:54.example. There are active investigations about Russian
:05:55. > :05:59.involvement in the last presidential election. There are two
:06:00. > :06:03.investigations in the Congress as well as FBI investigations. I am
:06:04. > :06:05.going to leave to them to make determinations about what the
:06:06. > :06:13.Russians did or what they might have. Actually when Trump says only
:06:14. > :06:16.the fake news media think his team were included with Russia. Clearly
:06:17. > :06:20.you're not ruling this out either. These are ongoing investigations.
:06:21. > :06:24.Just like the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, involved in
:06:25. > :06:28.the investigation, said it would be premature at this time to make any
:06:29. > :06:32.determination or rule anything out. The British Home Secretary said that
:06:33. > :06:37.the Government should be given access to what's April, another end
:06:38. > :06:40.to -- what's app, an encryption service. Do you think she's right?
:06:41. > :06:43.There needs to be a way for the Government to work with these
:06:44. > :06:47.companies, such as what's app, so the Government can carry out its
:06:48. > :06:55.responsibilities to protect society and to carry out the rule of law.
:06:56. > :06:58.When there are these very sophisticated technologies it really
:06:59. > :07:03.impedes the Government's ability to protect its citizens. The lecture
:07:04. > :07:07.you're giving tomorrow you're saying clearly that you're concerned about
:07:08. > :07:10.the pretense of some poll -- competence of some politicians to
:07:11. > :07:16.enter positions of authorities that don't have the skills for carrying
:07:17. > :07:19.out their solemn governmental responsibility with competence,
:07:20. > :07:24.integrity and efficacy. Who are you thinking of? I can think of a lot of
:07:25. > :07:33.government leaders around the world who arrive in those positions
:07:34. > :07:36.without the needed experience, the needed knowledge to carry out these
:07:37. > :07:40.responsibilities in a very complicated world. You talk about a
:07:41. > :07:45.variety of people you might, the kinds of people that you might be
:07:46. > :07:50.talking about. You said if this person came from, even in an
:07:51. > :07:53.unrelated celebrity inducing field. I mean you're being coy. You're
:07:54. > :08:03.talking about Donald Trump, aren't you? I am expressing my views and
:08:04. > :08:11.concerns about how important these government positions and leadership
:08:12. > :08:17.positions are and how we as societies need to have confidence
:08:18. > :08:21.that the individuals who have such power and authority are up to the
:08:22. > :08:24.task. Was Donald Trump right to tweet his accusation that President
:08:25. > :08:29.Obama wiretapped him before the election, was he right to say that?
:08:30. > :08:33.I guess a president can say whatever he wants, particularly one that
:08:34. > :08:38.tweets. I think that there is a solemn obligation on the part of an
:08:39. > :08:50.individual, such as the president, to tweet or to message information
:08:51. > :08:58.that is accurate, that is - that is measured and that is not just a
:08:59. > :09:03.spontaneous or impulsive number of words that they're trying to say. I
:09:04. > :09:11.think that there are some things that have been tweeted, coming out
:09:12. > :09:16.of Washington, where the care was not taken and the individual who
:09:17. > :09:20.tweet today was not mindful of the importance that people attach to the
:09:21. > :09:23.words of a president. Donald Trump would say that the real story that's
:09:24. > :09:29.going on, what's going on just now, is leaks for the intelligence
:09:30. > :09:33.community not the team's alleged links with Russia, is he right? He
:09:34. > :09:39.is certainly right that these leaks are appalling. They need to stop.
:09:40. > :09:42.Any unauthorised disclosure of classified information is something
:09:43. > :09:44.that needs to be addressed. One of Donald Trump's first outings when he
:09:45. > :09:51.became president was to make a speech in front of the CIA memorial.
:09:52. > :09:55.He talked about his disputed inauguration attendance figures
:09:56. > :09:59.rather than actually paying tribute to the CIA agents who had fallen in
:10:00. > :10:05.the course of duty. What went through your mind when you saw that?
:10:06. > :10:10.That wall of honour is hallowed ground for the agency. I know many
:10:11. > :10:17.of the individuals who are represented on that wall with those
:10:18. > :10:20.stars. So, when I saw Mr Trump up there, talking about politics, it
:10:21. > :10:25.really struck a nerve and it was not just my nerve that was struck. Many
:10:26. > :10:30.of my colleagues, former and current employees of the CIA, felt that was
:10:31. > :10:36.something that should not have taken place. I felt I had to give voice to
:10:37. > :10:41.the concerns of agency officers, which I did. Because you criticised
:10:42. > :10:45.Donald Trump for comparing Intel agencies to Nazi Germany. I wonder
:10:46. > :10:49.how that was received by the intelligence agency, not what you
:10:50. > :10:52.said, what he said. The intelligence professionals at CIA and other parts
:10:53. > :10:58.of the community take great pride in their work. They don't do it for
:10:59. > :11:02.public ack La mags or ticker tape parades -- acclamation. They do it
:11:03. > :11:10.silently and most times their great work is never known. When there is
:11:11. > :11:15.criticism and baseless criticism and imPuning the integrity, the mission
:11:16. > :11:22.of intelligence officers, yeah, intelligence officers take up bridge
:11:23. > :11:26.at that. -- umbridge. The White House all but accused GCHQ of
:11:27. > :11:30.helping President Obama wiretap Donald Trump. I mean, was that
:11:31. > :11:37.justified? Did it damage the five eyes alliance? Again, there are a
:11:38. > :11:42.lot of things that have been said and tweeted and whatever that I just
:11:43. > :11:46.- I am mystified over. As to why they were done. If at the end of
:11:47. > :11:51.these investigations, into the leaks, it is found that there has
:11:52. > :11:54.been leaks by CIA officers themselves, they will undermine
:11:55. > :11:57.their own organisation. They will undermine the organisation that
:11:58. > :12:01.you've served for all these years, if that's found to be the case.
:12:02. > :12:05.Anybody who releases classified information, whether it be to a
:12:06. > :12:08.foreign intelligence service or to the media, to me, is carrying out a
:12:09. > :12:14.treasonous act against their country. They should be held to
:12:15. > :12:19.account. There have been instances where CIA officers in the past, just
:12:20. > :12:25.like British intelligence officers of the past, have gone bad. The deep
:12:26. > :12:27.state. Well, no. These are individuals who have violated their
:12:28. > :12:31.Oath of Office. You don't believe in the deep state? I do not, absolutely
:12:32. > :12:36.not. That's ridiculous that there's a deep state trying to undermine
:12:37. > :12:40.either the credibility of the presidency or is trying to pursue
:12:41. > :12:44.other policies. That's what Donald Trump and Steve Bannon thinks.
:12:45. > :12:49.Anybody who thinks there is a deep state and the CIA is part of it in
:12:50. > :12:50.the US government is delusional. Thank you very much indeed. Thank
:12:51. > :12:53.you very much. The former Director of the CIA
:12:54. > :12:56.talking to me this afternoon. We'll put up the whole of that
:12:57. > :12:58.interview with John Brennan on Newsnight's YouTube
:12:59. > :13:00.channel later on. And you can see his Richard Dimbleby
:13:01. > :13:04.Lecture on BBC One tomorrow night. At 2.30pm in Russia's second city,
:13:05. > :13:07.a suspected bomb detonated on a metro train, killing at least
:13:08. > :13:13.ten people and injuring many more. St Petersburg is Vladimir Putin's
:13:14. > :13:27.home town, and tonight he laid Russia is used to terror attacks by
:13:28. > :13:30.Chechen separatists. But the country's involvement in Syria has
:13:31. > :13:35.also brought threats from IS propaganda groups.
:13:36. > :13:38.Here's John Sweeney with what we know, and a warning
:13:39. > :13:44.that his film does contain some upsetting images.
:13:45. > :13:46.The fog of terror in St Petersburg metro today.
:13:47. > :13:48.The bomb packed with shrapnel was powerful enough
:13:49. > :13:56.This is the moment passengers struggled to escape
:13:57. > :14:22.Long before the authorities arrived, passengers did their best
:14:23. > :14:26.11 dead, 50 injured and little clarity on the big questions.
:14:27. > :14:35.A bomb on the tube train travelling between Sennaya Ploshchad
:14:36. > :14:38.and Tekhnologichesky Institut stations, exploded.
:14:39. > :14:40.Another device was defused at a nearby station.
:14:41. > :14:51.Relatives were desperate to hear news from the missing.
:14:52. > :14:53.TRANSLATION: She was supposed to have left school by three
:14:54. > :14:58.I talked to a couple of witnesses who were more or less OK,
:14:59. > :15:01.They said that people were trying to help each other,
:15:02. > :15:04.to get out of this hell as fast as possible.
:15:05. > :15:06.Terror attacks against ordinary people on tubes, trains and planes
:15:07. > :15:10.Feeding conspiracy theories but the Kremlin itself might be
:15:11. > :15:12.Feeding conspiracy theories that the Kremlin itself might be
:15:13. > :15:16.But the most likely culprits are attackers
:15:17. > :15:25.My immediate suspicion is to look towards Islamist networks
:15:26. > :15:41.these sort of attacks in Russia, against public transport in this
:15:42. > :15:44.sort of co-ordinated fashion, it would seem insting stingtively
:15:45. > :15:47.you would see the attack being linked in that direction.
:15:48. > :15:55.Vladimir Putin is fighting wars in Syria and Ukraine.
:15:56. > :15:57.Blood is being spilt in Russia's always troubled
:15:58. > :16:02.And one pro Kremlin voice even pointed the finger
:16:03. > :16:06.at anti-corruption protestors, but tonight law enforcement sources
:16:07. > :16:10.said that a suicide bomber was responsible, who could have
:16:11. > :16:12.links to radical Islamist groups banned in Republican.
:16:13. > :16:15.This is how the master of the Kremlin responded.
:16:16. > :16:17.TRANSLATION: Law enforcement bodies and special services are working,
:16:18. > :16:20.and will do all they can in order to find out the cause
:16:21. > :16:24.But Putin has built his reputation on being the guarantor
:16:25. > :16:39.an attack while he was in the city, an attack on public transport,
:16:40. > :16:41.in a sort of multiple potential devices in this co-ordinated way
:16:42. > :16:45.suggests a dramatic security failure which ultimately will be seen
:16:46. > :16:51.Tonight, while what drove the killer to commit 24
:16:52. > :16:53.atrocity remains unclear, ordinary people are yet again
:16:54. > :17:05.Oksana Antonenko is a Russia expert at the London School of Economics.
:17:06. > :17:17.Good evening. From what you know and what we are saying here, there are a
:17:18. > :17:19.number of different possibilities. The Russian Government says it is
:17:20. > :17:27.investigating a suicide bombing. What do you think might have
:17:28. > :17:31.happened? First of all let me start by expressing my deepest condolences
:17:32. > :17:36.to everybody affected. It was a well planned and orchestrated attack,
:17:37. > :17:39.which was aimed at inflicting the largest possible damage for the
:17:40. > :17:44.civilians, in fact this metro station is very close to number of
:17:45. > :17:48.Russian universities, and the time of the bomb coincided with the time
:17:49. > :17:51.and the lectures finished at the university and the students were
:17:52. > :17:58.going home. So it was very well planned and executed and the fact
:17:59. > :18:02.that the second bomb was found at another station, reportedly
:18:03. > :18:06.concealed as a fire extinguisher shows it wasn't just a lone suicide
:18:07. > :18:11.bomber, it was a very well orchestrated and well researched and
:18:12. > :18:16.co-ordinated attack, therefore, it is clearly, work of an organisation
:18:17. > :18:22.at least several people than it is just a lone extremist. There are of
:18:23. > :18:28.course several theories, most point to links with IS. It could be some
:18:29. > :18:35.Russian nationals or even nationals from central Asia who were fighting
:18:36. > :18:39.in Syria, on the side of IS. The estimates indicate round 10,000 or
:18:40. > :18:44.more Russians were fighting in Syria, and probably round 4-6,000
:18:45. > :18:48.central Asians who were many radicalised during their time in
:18:49. > :18:52.Russia, as migrants, working in Russia. The second potential herery
:18:53. > :18:57.and that someone is seriously investigated at the moment, that it
:18:58. > :19:01.is linked to the indigenous IS linked groups within Russia, in
:19:02. > :19:08.fact, terrorism in Russia has been continuing, now, for a while. Last
:19:09. > :19:12.year, alone, in the knot Caucasus 200 Russian law enforcement
:19:13. > :19:18.personnel and civilians were killed in the IS linked attacks and just a
:19:19. > :19:24.few days ago, on 24th March, there was a very large attack outside of,
:19:25. > :19:31.at the National Guard, again organised by the IS linked local
:19:32. > :19:34.group, so leer clearly we have a large network of IS affiliated
:19:35. > :19:38.groups. But it would be fair to say recently in the Caucasus
:19:39. > :19:43.particularly these have been bombs in less populated area, areas that
:19:44. > :19:46.do not attract so much media attention, this presumably on the
:19:47. > :19:50.day that Vladimir Putin was there to meet the President of Belarus, this
:19:51. > :19:56.was timed to make the maximum impact abroad? Well, not only abroad. It is
:19:57. > :20:01.to make the maximum impact on Russia itself. Russia of course is entering
:20:02. > :20:04.the Presidential election campaign, it is a time when the politics I
:20:05. > :20:08.again, coming to the forefront, I think we are seen the protests
:20:09. > :20:13.recently, and it is really something which is aimed in my view, mostly at
:20:14. > :20:18.the domestic audience. I think one perhaps big question of whether it
:20:19. > :20:22.is really an IS affiliated attack is no-one has claimed the
:20:23. > :20:26.responsibility for this attack. Usually IS, in, declares that
:20:27. > :20:30.responsibility. Tell me though, Vladimir Putin, you know, it will be
:20:31. > :20:34.laid at his door, the commentators said in the film, because he see
:20:35. > :20:39.himself as a strong man, the idea is he going to going to keep Russia
:20:40. > :20:44.safe, how destabilising will this be? During those kind of attacks the
:20:45. > :20:47.nation usually rallies round the flag. I don't think it will be, if
:20:48. > :20:53.it is just one attack, it is not going to be something which is going
:20:54. > :20:57.to undermine I think Putin's very high popularity rating. If on the
:20:58. > :21:02.other hand we are present at the beginning of another campaign and we
:21:03. > :21:06.remember in the mid 2000s there were bombs going on in the transport
:21:07. > :21:10.system. In Russia almost on a weekly basis and clearly they are still
:21:11. > :21:14.going, as I mentioned in the north Caucasus and can be in other parts
:21:15. > :21:19.of Russia, then, of course, we will see much more I think tensions
:21:20. > :21:23.building up before the election campaign, but I think one terrorist
:21:24. > :21:26.attack is not going to be in my view very damaging to Putin but other --
:21:27. > :21:29.rather will strengthen his popularity. Thank you for joining
:21:30. > :21:35.Time was when Co2 emissions were the main target for Government
:21:36. > :21:38.action on the environment, but if the expected announcement
:21:39. > :21:41.tomorrow by the Mayor of London is anything to go by,
:21:42. > :21:44.the focus has swung hard to nitrogen oxides - or noxes -
:21:45. > :21:48.Siddiq Khan looks like he's going to announce that he is fast
:21:49. > :21:51.forwarding a toxin tax on diesel cars in the city, and other towns
:21:52. > :21:53.and cities in England are expected to follow suit.
:21:54. > :21:55.Naysayers insist that diesel cars only make up 10%
:21:56. > :22:01.Campaigners retort that the other polluters aren't at ground level
:22:02. > :22:23.Air pollution, a problem that refuses to fade.
:22:24. > :22:25.Its stench has lingered far too long in the UK.
:22:26. > :22:28.The Government attributes 40,000 premature deaths a year to it.
:22:29. > :22:32.And it wants to be seen to be doing something about it.
:22:33. > :22:39.The government will publish its plans in a couple of week, according
:22:40. > :22:44.to the Sunday Times I will clamp-down on diesel vehicle, a
:22:45. > :22:48.toxin tax could be charged, in the ten worst affected, diesel cars as
:22:49. > :22:52.well as commercial vehicles could be banned during peak hours.
:22:53. > :22:55.We have had a government that has simply rested on giving advice to
:22:56. > :23:00.people to stay at home when air pollution is high, that is nowhere
:23:01. > :23:04.near good enough, we need much more proactive action when it comes to
:23:05. > :23:09.tax tackling air pollution at source. Air pollution, let us
:23:10. > :23:13.remember is not only responsible for many thousands of premature deaths
:23:14. > :23:19.but also costing the economy anywhere up to ?20 billion in terms
:23:20. > :23:22.of ill health and so forth. So we do need action like low-emission zones,
:23:23. > :23:26.we need the Government to step up, just as many Governments are already
:23:27. > :23:34.doing across the rest of the world. Tell me what this is? A poster about
:23:35. > :23:38.air pollution. Yeah? And to stop the dust getting in the air, so
:23:39. > :23:44.healthier life for all of us. I like that. The Mayor of London recently
:23:45. > :23:48.introduced a new ?10 toxicity charge, dubbed the T charge. It is
:23:49. > :23:52.reported that tomorrow, he will announce a charge of 12.50 for every
:23:53. > :23:56.polluting vehicle entering any part of Greater London. Not just the
:23:57. > :24:02.centre of the the city. London is one of the worst affected areas in
:24:03. > :24:06.the UK by air pollution. Here on Oxford Street, the limits for
:24:07. > :24:11.nitrous dioxide were breached 16 times last year, that is 150 more
:24:12. > :24:16.than is allowed. Now transport accounts for 80% of
:24:17. > :24:20.the UK's total nitrous oxide emissions by the roadside. Diesel
:24:21. > :24:23.engines emitt on average more than petrol and that is why the
:24:24. > :24:28.Government is so keen to reduce their use, especially in spins.
:24:29. > :24:33.Testify Nearly one in two new cars bought last year were diesel. They
:24:34. > :24:39.are seen as more economical and when it comes to carbon dioxide emissions
:24:40. > :24:46.less harmful. However in recent years studies have focus on nigh
:24:47. > :24:51.rows oxide as more harmful. It is confusing. Volkswagen was found
:24:52. > :24:55.guilty of falsifying emissions data on its diesel vehicles, pretending
:24:56. > :24:59.they were cleaner than they were. That was for its laboratory tests,
:25:00. > :25:04.however, now there is doubts being cast over the value of tests done by
:25:05. > :25:09.all auto makers in a controlled environment. A UK Government study
:25:10. > :25:13.compared laboratory test results with the actual performance of
:25:14. > :25:17.vehicles on the road. The dotted line shows the emissions target,
:25:18. > :25:23.which the vehicles met under laboratory test conditions. The bars
:25:24. > :25:27.show that all models emitted more nitrous oxides on the road. On
:25:28. > :25:32.average the readings were six times worse.
:25:33. > :25:37.So how can drivers be deterred from diesel? A tax is another way of
:25:38. > :25:41.trying to tackle emissions from diesel car, they can be applied
:25:42. > :25:47.nationally, with more flexibility and they can also be a revenue
:25:48. > :25:50.generator to invest in low-emission transport, including public
:25:51. > :25:53.transport, low-emissions buses and active transport such as walking and
:25:54. > :25:57.cycling. Road vehicles are not responsible for the majority of
:25:58. > :26:03.diesel emission, some are report suggest they contribute to just 10%.
:26:04. > :26:08.15 of the biggest cargo ships currently pollute more nitrogen and
:26:09. > :26:15.sull for ox IEDses than all the world's cars put together. Aircraft
:26:16. > :26:17.emissions are still rising. Regulations are being tightened for
:26:18. > :26:23.them but travellers on the road are likely to feel the pinch first.
:26:24. > :26:25.The motor journalist and former Top Gear presenter
:26:26. > :26:34.Alongside, Oliver Hayes, the lead air pollution campaigner
:26:35. > :26:42.The diesel is a killers it has to be stopped. Nobody is talking about
:26:43. > :26:48.what the real pollutants are. Defra said that PM 10, 2.5, the ultra fine
:26:49. > :26:53.particles, 73% of that pollution comes from what is known as
:26:54. > :26:58.commercial public and residential combustion, that is burning wood. So
:26:59. > :27:03.you have got this 10% of cars, that are producing this tiny sliver of
:27:04. > :27:08.pollution, and nobody is doing anything about these pollutants that
:27:09. > :27:11.are add pedestrian level. So it is an easy target, where you are
:27:12. > :27:15.hitting peep who are trying to do their best because they were told
:27:16. > :27:17.that new diesel cars were environmentally-friendly. When we
:27:18. > :27:21.talk about air pollution, what we are talking about is children
:27:22. > :27:29.growing up with smaller lungs. We are talking about people having
:27:30. > :27:32.worsen asthma symptoms and changes in the brain associated with
:27:33. > :27:37.Alzheimer's. Would you rather not go after the cargo ship, the aircraft,
:27:38. > :27:40.than going after 10% which is cars. I think as your introduction made
:27:41. > :27:45.clear, what is crucial is where the pollution takes place, now, most of
:27:46. > :27:49.us, don't live near a big chimney or next to a big cargo ship but most of
:27:50. > :27:53.us do live near a road and that is why road transport is the biggest
:27:54. > :27:57.problem, diesel vehicles are the worse of all. The Government is
:27:58. > :28:04.clear on that. It is true if you take to Oxford Street, the amount of
:28:05. > :28:09.breaches in one year is phenomenal. 260 buses an hour on Oxford Street.
:28:10. > :28:14.That is your problem. With respect, nobody is talking about ship,s, that
:28:15. > :28:20.is 80% of background pollution. Nobody is talking about rail. Ground
:28:21. > :28:24.machinery, digger, road roller, 14% of background pollution, nobody is
:28:25. > :28:30.talking about this. Instead as always we demonise the diesel drive.
:28:31. > :28:36.It was that 1998 budget that Gordon Brown brought in that did the 3
:28:37. > :28:39.pence cut in diesel, and Greenpeace were advising and Friends of the
:28:40. > :28:45.Earth was advising Gordon Brown for that. So, this is the unintended
:28:46. > :28:49.consequence. That is not true. We were saying clearly in 1999 and 2000
:28:50. > :28:52.we were not advising diesel cars because of the clear health
:28:53. > :28:57.pollutant. How do you help people? These are people who perhaps have a
:28:58. > :28:58.small family car, they have bought it thinking it is
:28:59. > :29:05.environmentally-friendly. They have to drive to get to work, a lot of
:29:06. > :29:07.these marginal seats around cities and commuter, the Conservatives will
:29:08. > :29:12.have a problem with that, you will hit these people who are having to
:29:13. > :29:16.travel to work? I agree that drivers are rightly angry, Most people
:29:17. > :29:19.driving diesel cars bought them because they were told they were the
:29:20. > :29:25.greener choice, they did so in good faith. Give them ten years, to sell
:29:26. > :29:29.their car and move on to another car, but, the word is they are going
:29:30. > :29:34.to be hit in the next 12 months. We need to get action on diesel cars at
:29:35. > :29:39.the earliest opportunity. Every day of inaction is another day of lives
:29:40. > :29:43.lost. Isn't it the case if you gave people help to get through this it
:29:44. > :29:49.would be better for everybody, more electric car, fewer diesel cars it
:29:50. > :29:52.would be better. I have been campaigning for electric cars for
:29:53. > :29:56.year, I saw the Secretary of State, telling him to get his accuse
:29:57. > :30:01.together. But the cost to consumers who were told to buy diesel. If you
:30:02. > :30:05.say every dicele calf will have its value reduced by 5,00 pounds because
:30:06. > :30:09.move this hysteria, that is 75 billion we will be costing
:30:10. > :30:13.consumers. Tell me how, we know that, now we are talking with the
:30:14. > :30:17.Greater London area, but you have the congestion charge, that is
:30:18. > :30:22.monitored you can tell cars coming in, but when it comes to Newcastle
:30:23. > :30:27.or Leicester, how are you actual going to monitor this? That is why
:30:28. > :30:31.our position is clear, we need the so-called clean air zones to be
:30:32. > :30:35.properly funded and to be mandatory, we need Local Authorities to be
:30:36. > :30:38.supported to introduce the... By central Government Absolutely. It is
:30:39. > :30:41.not fair to same police say you must introduce the clean air zone but
:30:42. > :30:46.provide no support to do it. I would like to go back to the point about
:30:47. > :30:49.the cost to drivers, because you know, people driving dicele cars are
:30:50. > :30:53.just about as much at risk of air pollution as people on the street.
:30:54. > :30:57.We know if you are stuck in traffic and your car is bridging in air from
:30:58. > :31:00.the exhaust in front of you, you are getting poisoned by this stuff. So
:31:01. > :31:05.we need to support action for everybody. It may be you are asking
:31:06. > :31:10.people to pay the congestion charge in London to pay an extra 15.50 to
:31:11. > :31:13.bring their car in London. That will hit trade in London as wellen is it.
:31:14. > :31:19.We are clear three things need to happen. We knee to restrict want
:31:20. > :31:23.December doole cars can go. We need to get existence between exhaust
:31:24. > :31:28.pipes and children's lungs. Would you like to see every dicele bus
:31:29. > :31:34.taken off the streets? We are seeing good progress. Once swept have Petit
:31:35. > :31:39.Cambodge a, we have enough surveillance cameras so it will be
:31:40. > :31:46.easy to monitor number plates and charge people. And we will miss the
:31:47. > :31:52.worst polluters we don't measure ultra fine particles. It is not in
:31:53. > :31:53.the MoT. Or the vehicle exist duty, so we will be missing the pollution
:31:54. > :32:03.that is out there. Would you agree that diesel cars
:32:04. > :32:09.that aren't the most environmentally friendly, 10, 15, 20 years old,
:32:10. > :32:14.scrap them? We should be testing for more particulate pollution. We don't
:32:15. > :32:18.do that. So change the MOT. That's not always being enforced as it
:32:19. > :32:22.should be. We know filters that take out particulates are being removed.
:32:23. > :32:26.That process is legal. Particulates are never being measured. They are.
:32:27. > :32:31.The point is about particulates is that we have seen huge action
:32:32. > :32:39.bringing the particulate emissions from diesels down, we haven't seen
:32:40. > :32:43.action on nox. The car makers have been lying to us. Under the
:32:44. > :32:47.Government's watch and EU's watch. Those regimes were supervised by the
:32:48. > :32:51.Government and EU. We are in a public health crisis. We know that
:32:52. > :32:56.nox is not under control. We know that the UK Government is breaking
:32:57. > :33:00.the law. It's a simple point. The UK is obliged to meet legal limits on
:33:01. > :33:04.nitrogen dioxide and it isn't. Thank you very much very much indeed.
:33:05. > :33:08.If you're black and grew up in Britain in the '70s or '80s,
:33:09. > :33:09.perhaps the first person of a similar background
:33:10. > :33:12.you would have seen on a programme like this was Darcus Howe.
:33:13. > :33:14.An anti-racism campaigner, a member of the British
:33:15. > :33:16.Black Panther movement, writer, agitator, public
:33:17. > :33:18.intellectual and a broadcaster and documentary maker,
:33:19. > :33:20.Howe's death was announced at the weekend.
:33:21. > :33:24.He had been living with prostate cancer for more six years.
:33:25. > :33:27.He edited Race Today for 11 years, working alongside Farruk Dhondy
:33:28. > :33:29.and Linton Kweisi Johnson, and is credited with
:33:30. > :33:33.a transformative role in immigrants' rights.
:33:34. > :33:37.In a life that spanned 74 years and began in Trinidad,
:33:38. > :33:40.Darcus Howe saw Britain transformed, and often he was the heart
:33:41. > :33:48.I'm sitting opposite a man, he knows nothing,
:33:49. > :33:52.The result is he is a trenchant buffoon.
:33:53. > :33:54.He has no idea how to present television shows, he looks
:33:55. > :33:57.ridiculous in that fashionwear, he swans around all the time hoping
:33:58. > :33:59.that people will recognise him, when in fact nobody's
:34:00. > :34:03.He's taking up enough time on this show already,
:34:04. > :34:10.Sorry, that's the introduction to Robert Elms.
:34:11. > :34:14.I've just read out the introduction to Robert Elms.
:34:15. > :34:18.Heroic and uncharacteristic restraint from Darcus Howe.
:34:19. > :34:22.A formidable civil rights campaigner and broadcaster.
:34:23. > :34:26.Back in the '70s, Howe was more than a match for the Met,
:34:27. > :34:29.when he and others were charged over disturbances in west
:34:30. > :34:33.London, following police raids on a restaurant.
:34:34. > :34:37.Officers told the Old Bailey they'd seen Howe orchestrating a crowd
:34:38. > :34:48.The lawyer said Darcus, please, exhibits are...
:34:49. > :34:55.So they bring the van and there were these slits at the back.
:34:56. > :34:58.The four policemen seeing the same thing, seeing the same
:34:59. > :35:02.So I measured it quietly while the judge and they
:35:03. > :35:05.were round the side, and went home, cut out
:35:06. > :35:08.a piece of paper, foolscap, the size of the slit.
:35:09. > :35:12.Recalled the witness and said "Tell me, how four of you could see
:35:13. > :35:16.the same thing at the same time, through that slit?"
:35:17. > :35:19.He say "My eye was here, Rhys's eye was here.
:35:20. > :35:21.Roger's eye was here, and the next eye was here."
:35:22. > :35:28.And that is what eventually broke the spirit of the prosecution.
:35:29. > :35:32.Darcus absolutely, by defending himself, was the star of the show,
:35:33. > :35:37.out of the nine defendants, and with Shakespeare quotations
:35:38. > :35:42.He stood up in the dock and was very impressive.
:35:43. > :35:47.Darcus was a fearless warrior, in the struggle against racial
:35:48. > :35:53.People talking about the civil rights movement.
:35:54. > :35:56.There was no civil rights movement in this country, there were -
:35:57. > :35:58.anti-racist struggles were being raged and Darcus
:35:59. > :36:05.No-one got a free pass from Darcus Howe, who went
:36:06. > :36:09.on to be a high profile and punchy broadcaster.
:36:10. > :36:12.Being an A-lister was no guarantee of an easy ride
:36:13. > :36:18.The other story I want to tell you is about a family of nine
:36:19. > :36:22.children, who had talent, but made it to the top
:36:23. > :36:27.because of terror and violence, from parents driven by ambition.
:36:28. > :36:32.But he met his match in comedienne Joan Rivers, on Radio 4.
:36:33. > :36:41.Black does not offend, me, how dare you!
:36:42. > :36:47.Can we just say that you don't think Joan is a racist
:36:48. > :36:54.I don't know whether she's a racist or not, I don't care.
:36:55. > :36:57.That is the stupidest thing I ever heard.
:36:58. > :37:00.Normally I don't, wouldn't ever meet you in my life.
:37:01. > :37:05.Howe was in demand as a commentator on issues of race and identity.
:37:06. > :37:07.Whether discussing symbols of Britishness...
:37:08. > :37:12.I like living here but I'm not a patriot.
:37:13. > :37:14.You could like the country, I love the countryside,
:37:15. > :37:16.I get along beautifully with the English people,
:37:17. > :37:20.we are part of a space, but I am not patriot.
:37:21. > :37:25.Did you ever sense this was going to happen?
:37:26. > :37:32.I have a grandson, who's 15, and who cannot count
:37:33. > :37:36.the number of times he was stopped and searched.
:37:37. > :37:41.I think Darcus, in a way more than anybody else,
:37:42. > :37:47.He still had the trust and confidence of the black
:37:48. > :37:50.community, but to some extent, at least, he had the trust and
:37:51. > :37:58.Utterly unbiddable, his own man, Darcus Howe wouldn't let
:37:59. > :38:00.anyone off the hook, no matter how celebrated.
:38:01. > :38:09.Just as we were coming to grips with our new hero.
:38:10. > :38:26.Tomorrow morning's front pages. We gun with the Sun which reprises an
:38:27. > :38:33.old headline, this time, it's up yours senor. There is the picture of
:38:34. > :38:36.Gibraltar. The guardian seeks to ease tensions over Gibraltar. The
:38:37. > :38:40.Mail, 3 million of car debts they can't repay.
:38:41. > :38:44.And finally a story in the telegraph, the story that the
:38:45. > :38:52.National Trust has air brushed Easter. Church of England condemns
:38:53. > :38:57.rebrand egg hunt. The National Trust has dropped the word Easter from the
:38:58. > :39:03.annual Easter egg hunt. That's just about it tonight. We leave you with
:39:04. > :39:09.our new Brexit correspondent, Bob Danvers Walker. Who filed this
:39:10. > :39:15.report on Gibraltar's preparation on life post EU. Along the entire
:39:16. > :39:21.length of Gibraltar bay, it is a grand panorama of ships of war. Safe
:39:22. > :39:23.from tore r torpedo attack, proudly ride the floating Arsenals of the
:39:24. > :39:35.British navy. Always in the foreground is the
:39:36. > :39:44.navy. The people of Gibraltar like to feel there's a manowar about the
:39:45. > :39:46.house. So Gibraltar stands, watchdog of empire.
:39:47. > :39:52.Hello there, good evening, and it's a bit of a grey start
:39:53. > :39:55.to the day across much of eastern England, with soem outbreaks of rain
:39:56. > :39:58.for East Anglia and the south-east, and some of that rain will linger
:39:59. > :40:01.Meanwhile, for the afternoon, in Northern Ireland,
:40:02. > :40:06.Bright and breezy, 11 or 12 degrees, more like ten or 11
:40:07. > :40:10.It will always be quite windy the further north
:40:11. > :40:12.you go, particularly up towards Orkney and Shetland.
:40:13. > :40:15.There will be some showers rattling through on that wind.
:40:16. > :40:18.There will be some showers too in the north-west of Scotland.