:00:08. > :00:10.It's very, very possible - and I will tell you it's
:00:11. > :00:11.already happened - that my attitude toward Syria
:00:12. > :00:21.Is President Trump - accused of inappropriate respect
:00:22. > :00:26.for President Putin - about to get tough on the Russians
:00:27. > :00:33.When the United Nations consistently fails in its duty
:00:34. > :00:35.to act collectively, there are times in the life
:00:36. > :00:44.of states that we are compelled to take our own action.
:00:45. > :00:48.We'll ask what the US can do, and what it means for the reset
:00:49. > :01:01.I visit the old coal-mining territory in northern France.
:01:02. > :01:03.Home of Europe's's tallest slack heap. Is anybody here buying into
:01:04. > :01:29.the promises of politicians?. Find the woman and there the she
:01:30. > :01:38.I have changed somewhat, but a lot of the early feminists
:01:39. > :01:42.haven't and they go on seeing men as the enemy.
:01:43. > :01:45.I don't see men as an enemy, or an oppressive force, anymore.
:01:46. > :01:54.I tend to see women as rather the oppressive force at the moment.
:01:55. > :02:01.Since the start of the Syrian civil war, adjectives
:02:02. > :02:04.become worn out from over-use, not least from describing
:02:05. > :02:06.the brutality of Bashar al-Assad and his military.
:02:07. > :02:09.Listening to much of the reaction to yesterday's reports
:02:10. > :02:10.of a chemical attack, one could only be struck
:02:11. > :02:13.by the apparent powerlessness of the West to prevent cruelty
:02:14. > :02:17.For some, Donald Trump was the problem - he had shown
:02:18. > :02:20.a disregard for Syria and respect for Russia, offering Assad and Putin
:02:21. > :02:28.But at quarter to five our time, a dramatic shift in approach.
:02:29. > :02:31.The US Ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, made an excoriating
:02:32. > :02:33.attack on Russia and Assad, with a suggestion the US might
:02:34. > :02:40.The President himself also had strong words.
:02:41. > :02:44.That the administration is about to take a new and decisive
:02:45. > :02:47.step towards intervention, or that it is just
:02:48. > :02:57.And I should warn you - Ambassador Haley held up some
:02:58. > :03:00.graphic images of some of the victims of the attack today
:03:01. > :03:14.About all everyone agrees on that this was chemical weapons. Who
:03:15. > :03:22.carried it out, though, that is what is at issue. The Western powers,
:03:23. > :03:27.including Britain and supporters from the region, were congregating
:03:28. > :03:30.in Brussels today for yet another serious conference. Here, a
:03:31. > :03:38.consensus on who is to blame is easy to find. All the evidence I have
:03:39. > :03:43.seen suggests that this was the Assad regime who did it, in the full
:03:44. > :03:48.knowledge that they were using illegal weapons, in a barbaric
:03:49. > :03:52.attack on their own people. What to do about it, though? The question a
:03:53. > :03:58.leading international agreements so many times and every time, the death
:03:59. > :04:02.toll in Syria has grown and grown. The UN Security Council has convened
:04:03. > :04:08.many times since Syria's barbaric Civil War began but nothing said
:04:09. > :04:13.emission chamber has halted the carnage for a second. Russia
:04:14. > :04:18.sometimes joined by China has vetoed concerted action. Today, yet another
:04:19. > :04:24.emergency session with the same strong condemnation from some around
:04:25. > :04:26.the table. Yesterday, we sought the consequences of those vetoes. Those
:04:27. > :04:34.consequences are painted on the stricken faces of the children in
:04:35. > :04:37.Syria. But Russia is supporting and supplying President Assad, it
:04:38. > :04:40.contends that the chemicals were released when a rebel munitions
:04:41. > :04:44.store was hit by a Syrian covenant as strike. The rebels, Russia says,
:04:45. > :04:52.using the chemical weapons to draw the US into the conflict. The
:04:53. > :05:00.turning point in the use of toxic chemicals in Syria and weaponise
:05:01. > :05:04.chemical agents, that the turning point was the establishment by the
:05:05. > :05:11.previous US administration of the so-called red lines. Crossing those
:05:12. > :05:14.red lines was supposed to lead to intervention, military intervention
:05:15. > :05:20.in the Syrian conflict. That decision served as a starting point
:05:21. > :05:25.for future provocations eye terrorists and extremist ructions
:05:26. > :05:28.with the use of chemical weapons. It is impossible to say without
:05:29. > :05:33.independent scientists on the ground, but from this distance, the
:05:34. > :05:39.Russian explanation of a rebel chemical munitions store being hit
:05:40. > :05:43.gets little support. We would not see this many deaths around. We
:05:44. > :05:50.would not see this many suffering around. This is for sure the
:05:51. > :05:58.Government or the Government affiliated agencies. Bombing the
:05:59. > :06:03.Idlib province and the people deliberately using a nerve gas.
:06:04. > :06:07.Foaming at the mouth, suffering convulsions. America is convinced
:06:08. > :06:11.the US Ambassador to be when major the Russians and Syrians could see
:06:12. > :06:18.pictures of some of the dead. And she hinted at a strong US response.
:06:19. > :06:23.When United Nations consistently fails in its duty to act
:06:24. > :06:29.collectively, there are times in the life of states, that we are
:06:30. > :06:32.compelled to take our own action. It seems that President Trump is in the
:06:33. > :06:41.process is very calibrating his Syria policy. It crossed a lot of
:06:42. > :06:46.lines for me. When you kill innocent children, innocent babies, babies,
:06:47. > :06:48.little babies. Till now, the President has seen so-called Islamic
:06:49. > :06:52.State is the bigger threat to American interests. I think the
:06:53. > :06:58.President, as a result of this chemical weapons attack, has reached
:06:59. > :07:07.the conclusion that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is a major asset for
:07:08. > :07:10.violent extremism. But what follows from that realisation, what the US
:07:11. > :07:13.can do to hurt the Assad regime without coming into conflict with
:07:14. > :07:17.Russian forces, is by no means clear.
:07:18. > :07:19.Well, new President, a different approach.
:07:20. > :07:21.Is this the first opportunity for President Trump to show
:07:22. > :07:24.what he can achieve, or the first sign that he's
:07:25. > :07:26.going to achieve little when it comes to influencing Russia
:07:27. > :07:31.Joining me now from New York is the Foreign Policy
:07:32. > :07:33.Strategist Nancy Soderberg, who served as Deputy
:07:34. > :07:35.National Security Advisor under President Clinton
:07:36. > :07:48.Good evening. Do you regard what happens today as a shift in American
:07:49. > :07:55.policy, a serious shift, or just more words? I think it is a serious
:07:56. > :07:59.shift. President Trump cannot ignore the pictures of his UN Ambassador at
:08:00. > :08:04.the United Nations and it will drive a wedge between him and President
:08:05. > :08:09.Vladimir Putin with whom he has been confusingly cosy. He has got to have
:08:10. > :08:13.a policy that puts America on the right side of history. We do not
:08:14. > :08:18.have one yet, we have not seen it yet, but I think we are going to try
:08:19. > :08:21.diplomacy and perhaps, we have to do something about the remaining
:08:22. > :08:26.stockpile in Syria of those chemical weapons. Just give one option that
:08:27. > :08:34.you think is a viable or plausible option that he might now pursue.
:08:35. > :08:38.Well, I think he has got to recognise that the Russian policy is
:08:39. > :08:42.a failure in Syria. They promise to get rid of chemical weapons and they
:08:43. > :08:48.have not, so he has the tough talk to her Putin and say we have to
:08:49. > :08:53.solve this issue, defeat Isis and have a peace plan to rid the country
:08:54. > :08:57.of Assad. That is in two stages and will be difficult and will require
:08:58. > :09:01.diplomacy which we have yet to see from this team. But that does not
:09:02. > :09:06.involve taking what I would think is unilateral action of going in and
:09:07. > :09:09.doing anything, that is more talk and more diplomacy. Is that going to
:09:10. > :09:14.leave America looking a bit week, with the day Nikki Haley saying
:09:15. > :09:18.sometimes you have to act on your own comic you would look like you
:09:19. > :09:22.have caved again? No, they have to do something to get rid of those
:09:23. > :09:26.chemical weapons and that could either involve the Russians going in
:09:27. > :09:30.and doing it as they should have the first time in 2013, they promise to
:09:31. > :09:34.get rid of all of it, secondly, if they do not do it, I think the US
:09:35. > :09:40.would be justified in trying to capture that. Unilateral military
:09:41. > :09:44.intervention to get the chemical weapons is very, very difficult. A
:09:45. > :09:49.negotiated effort with the Russians upfront to make up their faulty deal
:09:50. > :09:53.from 2013 would be first, but I think President Trump is very
:09:54. > :09:56.serious about taking action to address the chemical weapons threat
:09:57. > :10:02.if the international community and particularly Russia fails. Quickly,
:10:03. > :10:06.Nikki Haley and the United Nations pointed the finger very directly at
:10:07. > :10:10.Russia and talked about Russia. President Trump did not mention
:10:11. > :10:15.Russia, he was talking about Bashar al-Assad. Is that an interesting
:10:16. > :10:20.distinction between the two of them, they entirely on the same page on
:10:21. > :10:28.this? No, I don't. I think what Nikki Haley was doing at the UN was
:10:29. > :10:30.to have her moment were akin to the Cuban Missile Crisis when our
:10:31. > :10:36.Ambassador showed for the first time the satellite pictures of Cuban
:10:37. > :10:41.missiles, Russian, Soviet missiles in Cuba, this is the pictures and
:10:42. > :10:45.the evidence. You cannot deny that this is the truth. She is trying to
:10:46. > :10:50.corner the Russians and the President has not got there. Our
:10:51. > :10:54.Secretary of State is mute. I think they do not have a coordinated
:10:55. > :10:58.message. I think they will get one but it is a little confusing now.
:10:59. > :11:02.That is typical of this administration, they are not well
:11:03. > :11:05.coordinated with one message. Some people say sometimes been a bit
:11:06. > :11:09.unpredictable and confusing, nobody knows what you're doing, that can be
:11:10. > :11:14.an advantage in these situations, you can get away with stuff nobody
:11:15. > :11:17.else can. I think below -- people believe President Trump when he says
:11:18. > :11:23.he will make sure this is addressed alone if we have two, I don't think
:11:24. > :11:28.President Trump knows what that is exactly. This forces President Trump
:11:29. > :11:33.to confront the Russian behaviour which he has been unwilling to do so
:11:34. > :11:36.far. There is no doubt the Russians could move to prevent this and did
:11:37. > :11:40.not get all the weapons initially, they are pretending this is the
:11:41. > :11:45.rebels, the same playbook they played in 2013 when this crisis
:11:46. > :11:48.happened before. Russian policy is an absolute failure. It opens the
:11:49. > :11:52.door for President Trump to try to get the Russians to do the right
:11:53. > :11:56.thing here. Given their relationship, he may be the one
:11:57. > :12:00.person that can hold that. If they can get that deal, he will have
:12:01. > :12:05.accomplished something important, and that is going to be the first
:12:06. > :12:06.test of this presidency. Nancy Soderberg, thank you very much
:12:07. > :12:07.indeed. Listening to that was
:12:08. > :12:09.Dr Leslie Vinjamuri, an expert in conflict and US foreign
:12:10. > :12:18.policy at Chatham House and SOAS. Did you think this was significant
:12:19. > :12:26.when you heard President Trump say he had changed his mind about Syria?
:12:27. > :12:32.It was significant because Trump backed himself into a corner. He has
:12:33. > :12:35.been criticising the Obama administration for a long time and
:12:36. > :12:41.failing to force the red line. He said many red lines were crossed and
:12:42. > :12:44.more than a red line. So people will be looking to see what he does. Much
:12:45. > :12:49.of what Donald Trump has been doing in the last months has been about
:12:50. > :12:55.his concern for his popularity at home. So that audience now, the
:12:56. > :12:59.expectations of that audience, has been raised. But she is exactly
:13:00. > :13:06.right, it is not very obvious what one does do, using Russia has the
:13:07. > :13:08.greatest love it over Assad so that is important, but whether Donald
:13:09. > :13:12.Trump has leveraged over Russia remains to be seen and there is no
:13:13. > :13:16.real strategy out of the administration. This is the most
:13:17. > :13:19.fascinating things, have we learned anything about Donald Trump and
:13:20. > :13:24.Russia? This is what everybody has been talking about for the last four
:13:25. > :13:29.months. Is he compensating for the fact people think he is close to
:13:30. > :13:32.Russia, does he have any sway over Russia? Donald Trump, when he spoke
:13:33. > :13:38.today about Syria and about the chemical weapons, again, I think he
:13:39. > :13:42.was speaking to a domestic audience and he was launching a critique of
:13:43. > :13:46.the past administration. It was a little bit less about Russia. But
:13:47. > :13:50.this puts him in a very difficult position because without the help of
:13:51. > :13:54.Russia, there is not much you can do about Assad. Everybody says that,
:13:55. > :13:58.can the US, the one thing I have heard described you can do, you
:13:59. > :14:09.could just go in and punish Assad for this. So he thinks about it the
:14:10. > :14:12.next time, you could just bomb and airfield. Not get in the way of the
:14:13. > :14:15.Russians and not get drawn into the fight but say, you did that, we do
:14:16. > :14:18.this, don't do that again. Is that plausible or does Russia have
:14:19. > :14:22.control of the airspace you could not do anything? The key issue is
:14:23. > :14:27.whether the current administration will think and deliberate carefully
:14:28. > :14:32.enough. If they were to decide to use military force for the specific
:14:33. > :14:36.aim of taking out whatever chemical weapons remain in Syria and whether
:14:37. > :14:39.they would go through the kind of process that would be absolutely
:14:40. > :14:44.essential to achieve that, and that would not be easy to achieve in any
:14:45. > :14:48.case. I think that is an incredibly difficult to quote you do not know
:14:49. > :14:52.where the chemical weapons are. And the broader question is how to solve
:14:53. > :14:58.this crisis, this ongoing conflict in Syria. They are two issues and
:14:59. > :15:00.the two issues will come together in the mind of the American public.
:15:01. > :15:02.Thank you very much. Another day in which comments
:15:03. > :15:04.of Ken Livingstone have distracted He was suspended from standing
:15:05. > :15:09.for office within the Labour Party yesterday, not expelled,
:15:10. > :15:12.for his views on Hitler and zionism. But he was on this programme
:15:13. > :15:15.last night, and carried on the argument without apology,
:15:16. > :15:19.to the disappointment of many. His latest comments
:15:20. > :15:22.mean there is now to be It's all getting in the way of a big
:15:23. > :15:29.policy announcement - unless the policy was designed
:15:30. > :15:31.to distract from Ken? We'll ask a Shadow Cabinet
:15:32. > :15:34.minister in a moment. But first, our political editor
:15:35. > :15:43.Nick Watt is with me. Let's take a break from him, what is
:15:44. > :15:48.the policy and how will they get away from this Ken Livingstone
:15:49. > :15:51.affair? Jeremy Corbyn complained earlier the week that Labour never
:15:52. > :15:54.focus on party policy and are obsessed with his leadership so they
:15:55. > :15:58.will announce a policy tomorrow which will attract a fair amount of
:15:59. > :16:01.attention. Labour say a future Labour
:16:02. > :16:08.government would fund free school meals for all primary school pupils
:16:09. > :16:13.to be funded by, wait for it, charging VAT on private school fees.
:16:14. > :16:17.He is going to cite research from the Fabian Society back in 2010,
:16:18. > :16:21.which said this would raise about ?1.5 billion a year.
:16:22. > :16:28.It's interesting to note that there was an identity Michael Cole
:16:29. > :16:33.identical policy on this in the Labour general election of 1993.
:16:34. > :16:39.That manifesto went much further and talked about phasing out private
:16:40. > :16:42.schools. Let's talk about Ken Livingstone now, bringing us
:16:43. > :16:47.up-to-date on the sequence of events since last night? There was uproar
:16:48. > :16:52.in the party after that decision, as you say, not to expel Ken
:16:53. > :16:55.Livingstone from the party, about 100 Labour MPs, including members of
:16:56. > :17:00.the Shadow Cabinet, said the Labour machinery did not act in their name
:17:01. > :17:05.and this afternoon Jeremy Corbyn criticised his former comrades on
:17:06. > :17:10.the left, for refusing to apologise for his remarks and endorsed that
:17:11. > :17:12.referral of Ken Livingstone to Labour's ruling National executive
:17:13. > :17:16.committee. Tomorrow, Theresa May will wade into
:17:17. > :17:21.the row and says the Labour Party has betrayed the Jewish community by
:17:22. > :17:25.letting Ken Livingstone off the hook. She will be talking at the
:17:26. > :17:30.launch of the Conservative campaign for the local elections on the 4th
:17:31. > :17:35.of May where she will essentially say that under Labour, council tax
:17:36. > :17:38.doubled but Conservative councils made sensible savings while keeping
:17:39. > :17:39.council tax down. Thank you.
:17:40. > :17:41.Barry Gardiner is the Shadow International Trade Secretary,
:17:42. > :17:44.and was one of more than 100 MPs who signed a letter today
:17:45. > :17:49.criticising the party's response to the Livingstone saga.
:17:50. > :18:00.I think that that letter, the words were "The Labour institutions have
:18:01. > :18:07.betrayed our values". Do you believe that? I do. I joined the Labour
:18:08. > :18:12.Party to fight bigotry and racism. To fight injustice. Not to turn a
:18:13. > :18:18.blind eye to it. That is why many of us were incensed at the National
:18:19. > :18:26.Constitutional committee's response. To actually find that Ken
:18:27. > :18:30.Livingstone had done what had been alleged, namely he had brought the
:18:31. > :18:36.party into disrepute, with these grossly offensive remarks. That he
:18:37. > :18:42.had not apologised for them. And the sanction that was there, provided
:18:43. > :18:46.for, was not used and he was not expelled from the party.
:18:47. > :18:49.That is absolutely wrong and sends the message to people that is
:18:50. > :18:53.contrary to everything the Labour Party was founded on, and everything
:18:54. > :18:57.the Labour Party stands for. Jeremy Corbyn, today, seemed to share quite
:18:58. > :19:02.a lot of those views. That it was terrible he had not
:19:03. > :19:06.apologised and continued talking about it. But, he also said to
:19:07. > :19:10.regional papers this afternoon that he does want Ken Livingstone to
:19:11. > :19:14.contribute to the fight of the Labour Party, including the fight
:19:15. > :19:17.for antiracism, the fight against racism.
:19:18. > :19:22.Now, you could not share that view with Jeremy Corbyn? You do not want
:19:23. > :19:26.Ken Livingstone in your camp fighting for anything? Let me be
:19:27. > :19:30.clear, Ken Livingstone is a consummate politician, I do not
:19:31. > :19:36.think any of doubt that, he's a very intelligent man. If he were to
:19:37. > :19:41.repent, if he were genuinely to be sorry for the gross offence that he
:19:42. > :19:45.caused, I would welcome that. But, Ken Livingstone knew what he was
:19:46. > :19:48.doing when he weighed in to that original argument. He knew deep
:19:49. > :19:56.remarks he made were likely to cause offence. He has continued to try and
:19:57. > :19:59.dance on the head of a pin about the particular words that he used, being
:20:00. > :20:05.misinterpreted. But the fact is, he hasn't come out,
:20:06. > :20:11.as he should have done, contrite and apologised for the offence he
:20:12. > :20:14.caused. Many people focus on the anti-Semitism part of this but some
:20:15. > :20:20.think it is the whole affair which makes the party look on hinged?
:20:21. > :20:24.Banging on about Hitler and Zionism, partly it has taken 11 months to get
:20:25. > :20:28.from his first comments to where we are now, and that you haven't
:20:29. > :20:32.managed to agree a line, constitute committees have come up with one
:20:33. > :20:35.thing and then 100 MPs have shown that the immense and passion that
:20:36. > :20:39.you have. Then, the second enquiry, and the
:20:40. > :20:41.leader giving slightly mixed messages about the role of Ken
:20:42. > :20:46.Livingstone. Do you not think that the party
:20:47. > :20:49.comes across as not looking like it can organise anything? The National
:20:50. > :20:54.Constitutional Committee was set up a number of years ago to be able to
:20:55. > :20:58.take this away from the National executive and take it out of the
:20:59. > :21:04.politics of politics, if you like. And, to set in place a way of
:21:05. > :21:09.dealing with things like this. The problem is, it hasn't done that
:21:10. > :21:13.effectively. Therefore, Jeremy Corbyn was absolutely right, that it
:21:14. > :21:19.must now go back to the NEC, the National executive committee, the
:21:20. > :21:23.governing body of the party, to look at this again.
:21:24. > :21:27.This is not just about Ken Livingstone, although he, I'm sure,
:21:28. > :21:31.is always keen to make it about Ken Livingstone. This is about the way
:21:32. > :21:35.in which the party organisers from the bottom-up, the way in which it
:21:36. > :21:39.operates from the bottom-up, and we must get it right.
:21:40. > :21:43.Unless these fundamental values are at the core of the Labour Party,
:21:44. > :21:47.then it is not the Labour Party as was founded, and it is not the
:21:48. > :21:51.Labour Party that many of us joined. We want to see it right in the
:21:52. > :21:55.future. Like it or lump it, no matter what Theresa May says
:21:56. > :21:59.tomorrow, it is the Labour Party in this country which is the best
:22:00. > :22:04.political vehicle for justice, for fighting racism, and...
:22:05. > :22:09.You are sounding very angry and quite disenchanted, if I may say so,
:22:10. > :22:13.with your own party. Not at all. Some would say it is with your own
:22:14. > :22:19.leader? I think that Jeremy's response today was exemplary and his
:22:20. > :22:22.response, having referred it initially to the NCC, he was
:22:23. > :22:27.absolutely right, as all of us should be, to be kept out of the
:22:28. > :22:31.process of discipline. You face your elections on May the 4th, local
:22:32. > :22:35.elections, and agree it would be a disaster for your party to lose
:22:36. > :22:40.seats in those local elections? No opposition party has done that
:22:41. > :22:44.since 1985 in a local election... We want to win the seat and not lose
:22:45. > :22:49.them. We want to win all of the seats that we fight in. The more
:22:50. > :22:53.labour representatives there are in local councils, the more seats that
:22:54. > :22:59.are in local councils, the better we are able to highlight the fact that
:23:00. > :23:03.this is a government which has just cut 8% of the education budget, and
:23:04. > :23:08.we are able to highlight the cuts to social care in this country and
:23:09. > :23:10.highlight the way in which the National Health Service is not able
:23:11. > :23:18.to meet the targets that this government has said. Every Labour
:23:19. > :23:23.councillor, every Labour mayor, will enable asked to do that better.
:23:24. > :23:26.Barry Gardiner, thank you. -- will enable us to do better.
:23:27. > :23:29.The French had a Presidential election TV debate last night.
:23:30. > :23:30.Eleven candidates on stage for four hours.
:23:31. > :23:34.Interestingly, the debate winner in the follow-up poll
:23:35. > :23:36.was the radical left winger, Jean-Luc Melenchon.
:23:37. > :23:39.He's been gaining support, and it's now possible that the two
:23:40. > :23:41.main parties in France will come fourth and fifth in this
:23:42. > :23:53.Well, for an explanation, I've been to the northern
:23:54. > :23:57.Just an hour from Calais, it was the heart of a huge coal
:23:58. > :24:00.That's long gone,of course and the population there
:24:01. > :24:15.It's often said the populist far right, Front National, flourish
:24:16. > :24:17.there, but in people are often clutching at someone, anyone,
:24:18. > :24:20.What I didn't find there, is anybody supporting either
:24:21. > :24:37.The French spent billions shutting down their old coal mines.
:24:38. > :24:40.In the north of France, it was the early '90s they went,
:24:41. > :24:45.but the relics of that past are hard to miss.
:24:46. > :24:48.But, yes, the country did shut them down all the same.
:24:49. > :25:23.He started working in the mines at 14.
:25:24. > :25:25.So is there life when the mines have gone?
:25:26. > :25:28.In Northern France, they have done their very best.
:25:29. > :25:33.A novel use for a spoil tip, a dry ski slope.
:25:34. > :25:35.But how does this play in the upcoming presidential election?
:25:36. > :25:40.Will this part of France conform to the global pattern
:25:41. > :26:13.He thinks it's not all about the Front National.
:26:14. > :26:16.It's easy to say that places like this have been forgotten,
:26:17. > :26:22.I'm really not sure it's that simple.
:26:23. > :26:24.This, for example, is the fantastic Lens Louvre museum.
:26:25. > :26:26.It's the only branch of the Paris Louvre
:26:27. > :26:30.They've made a real effort, but the truth is, nobody anywhere
:26:31. > :26:37.How would you bring economic drive, jobs and status to areas that
:26:38. > :26:47.Culture is a favourite French revitaliser.
:26:48. > :26:50.The Louvre is on the site of an old mine and here,
:26:51. > :26:52.a few miles from Lens, is another pithead turned
:26:53. > :26:58.This old cloakroom and shower room is the exhibition site.
:26:59. > :27:01.Former miners still gather on the site.
:27:02. > :27:05.They recognise the effort that's been made, but
:27:06. > :27:25.Tell me about the best days, the best days ever, of this region.
:27:26. > :28:10.When was this region, do you think, at its absolute best?
:28:11. > :28:50.Would they believe anyone promising jobs now?
:28:51. > :28:58.Back to Lens, where I must catch sight of the local natural scenery.
:28:59. > :29:10.A sign of just how dominant coal was here.
:29:11. > :29:13.Well, the view is spectacular, but there's one thing that you can't
:29:14. > :29:15.see, which is that over there - about a 40-minute drive away,
:29:16. > :29:23.not so far - is Lille, France's fourth biggest city.
:29:24. > :29:25.And everybody agrees there are more jobs over there.
:29:26. > :29:27.Indeed, economic opportunity has tended to gravitate
:29:28. > :29:33.But for the people here - and remember, we're not
:29:34. > :29:35.talking small villages, this is secondary towns and cities -
:29:36. > :29:42.There's definitely a gulf between the big metropolis and the rest.
:29:43. > :29:49.Here's not the place to find the old, but you
:29:50. > :30:02.It is among them, polls show, you find most support
:30:03. > :30:38.What's most striking is how far the Front National has
:30:39. > :31:06.These two would never have voted for Jean-Marie Le Pen.
:31:07. > :31:09.So you would never vote Jean-Marie Le Pen?
:31:10. > :31:20.An array of products of offer and an array of views.
:31:21. > :31:23.This strikes me as a community groping for some kind of change,
:31:24. > :32:13.unsure if it's possible, and divided over who can deliver it.
:32:14. > :32:15.Areas of industrial decline are common in the West
:32:16. > :32:17.and there's a clear, if unsurprising, political pattern -
:32:18. > :32:41.In fact looks at the first round that election.
:32:42. > :32:44.Fay Weldon is a prolific writer who, in her 86 years, has written
:32:45. > :32:46.more than 30 novels, but it was when she was 52
:32:47. > :32:49.that she wrote her most celebrated and famous work,
:32:50. > :32:53.It was a raging and funny revenge novel about a woman's take-down
:32:54. > :32:55.of her adulterous husband and his more beautiful,
:32:56. > :32:58.And the television series which followed had everyone rooting
:32:59. > :33:01.for the ungainly Ruth, whose actions and articulacy fired
:33:02. > :33:06.Now the She Devil is back, but in Weldon's new iteration -
:33:07. > :33:09.Death of a She Devil - Ruth is in her eighties, harsh,
:33:10. > :33:11.embittered, and her female-only world has consigned men
:33:12. > :33:15.Weldon paints a dystopic view of feminism, earnest humourless
:33:16. > :33:26.It is a satire, but in her own life, Weldon too has had second
:33:27. > :33:28.thoughts about feminism, believing the revolution has not
:33:29. > :33:31.Kirsty met the author to talk about the return
:33:32. > :33:38.I always pretend to be happy when I am not!
:33:39. > :33:51.I must be grateful for the roof over my head and the food on my table.
:33:52. > :33:56.When you unleashed the She Devil into the world...
:33:57. > :33:58.what do you think was it about her that captured
:33:59. > :34:01.the imagination, not just of women, men too, but mainly women, that she
:34:02. > :34:07.I think it was the rage and the anger and the fact
:34:08. > :34:09.that she represented women who were not particulary beautiful.
:34:10. > :34:11.To see a large woman actually active on the screen
:34:12. > :34:15.She was not subservient, she did dreadful things,
:34:16. > :34:20.I mean, she took off in great danger to herself,
:34:21. > :34:23.inasmuch as she had no way of financially supporting herself.
:34:24. > :34:25.And that stopped many women taking off, didn't it?
:34:26. > :34:29.It was very much as women in other countries are today,
:34:30. > :34:32.that you can't be your own person because you have no
:34:33. > :34:43.Women wanted freedom and she was free.
:34:44. > :35:09.Over a decade ago, in an interview, you said - as soon as women
:35:10. > :35:12.have the choice of marrying or not marrying, having children or not,
:35:13. > :35:14.the only choice they don't have is not earning,
:35:15. > :35:18.which is a terrible loss to womanhood.
:35:19. > :35:25.If you're young, healthy, energetic, have a career,
:35:26. > :35:30.But most women have jobs, or end up with jobs, not careers, often
:35:31. > :35:35.Social change in the last 40 years has been enormous.
:35:36. > :35:37.Thanks to feminism, in a way, but you can't say
:35:38. > :35:40.Because the original feminists really didn't
:35:41. > :35:45.We saw a world of young, healthy, intelligent, striking women,
:35:46. > :35:48.and we didn't really honestly take much notice of those
:35:49. > :36:02.But you seem to be suggesting, broadly, that feminism has not
:36:03. > :36:06.turned out as well as you thought it would when you were younger.
:36:07. > :36:14.I mean, there were many, many advantages.
:36:15. > :36:16.Earning and working gives women economic
:36:17. > :36:24.I mean, they have freedom, they have power, they have all these things,
:36:25. > :36:27.but they have no rest and they look tired and they look exhausted.
:36:28. > :36:31.Feminism is wonderful for any woman under 30.
:36:32. > :36:33.Man now controls the best weapon woman ever had.
:36:34. > :36:50.In its very mood and subtleties, he can become her,
:36:51. > :36:59.But what will happen to the She Devil?
:37:00. > :37:05.So what kind of character has the She Devil turned
:37:06. > :37:10.Well, she hasn't changed, she has the same views, I think, really.
:37:11. > :37:17.I mean, I hope I have changed somewhat, but a lot of the early
:37:18. > :37:20.feminists haven't and they go on seeing man as the enemy.
:37:21. > :37:23.I don't think man is the enemy and an oppressive force any more,
:37:24. > :37:26.I tend to see women as rather the oppressive force at the moment.
:37:27. > :37:29.You have said that women now live lives easier than men and the only
:37:30. > :37:32.way men have of fighting back against the natural
:37:33. > :37:34.superiority of women is by becoming women themselves.
:37:35. > :37:39.You're not seriously suggesting that people change sex
:37:40. > :37:43.from male to female simply because it's easier in this
:37:44. > :37:54.Look, there are lots of sort of transgender people
:37:55. > :37:56.for whom it is really a serious business.
:37:57. > :37:59.But there is also a sort of undertone of frivolous people
:38:00. > :38:02.who, for the sake of fashion or what is going on,
:38:03. > :38:05.or the clothes or whatever, want to be the other gender.
:38:06. > :38:07.Most of them being men wanting to be women.
:38:08. > :38:10.The women who want to be men have a really hard time, I think,
:38:11. > :38:12.because it's a real serious business for them.
:38:13. > :38:16.I'm not dismissing this at all, at all.
:38:17. > :38:20.You do accept that what you say offends a lot of transgender
:38:21. > :38:22.people who feel very, very passionately that they
:38:23. > :38:31.I'm not saying they shouldn't for one minute.
:38:32. > :38:37.I wrote a comic novel about somebody who is a frivolous person and then
:38:38. > :38:42.you have to read it to see what happens, but I'm not offending
:38:43. > :38:44.transgender people or thinking there is anything wrong
:38:45. > :38:45.with changing your gender because I don't.
:38:46. > :38:50.I think it is a very personal thing, it is something very personal,
:38:51. > :38:52.but you can't sort of not say what you think.
:38:53. > :38:58.What you look at and see with your eyes.
:38:59. > :39:00.You have suggested, I think I'm right in saying,
:39:01. > :39:06.that some of the women who claim to have been sexually
:39:07. > :39:08.molested by Trump were just after money.
:39:09. > :39:13.And you argue that what is now seen as sexual harassment
:39:14. > :39:17.That is another minefield, it is like you like to just trample
:39:18. > :39:24.I worked at an advertising office in the '60s when,
:39:25. > :39:27.before feminism or sexual harassment...
:39:28. > :39:34.Sexual harassment is also very, very unpleasant,
:39:35. > :39:36.I know that as as a woman, I suffered
:39:37. > :39:41.But I also know that in a properly run and civilised office,
:39:42. > :39:44.what went on behind the filing cabinets was what made
:39:45. > :39:53.Except that it was men exercising power over women,
:39:54. > :39:56.women often did not have the chance to speak up about it,
:39:57. > :39:59.they felt they would get the sack, they felt they would be demonised.
:40:00. > :40:08.Well, if that happens, then absolutely, it is sexual harassment.
:40:09. > :40:12.But all I am saying, in those days, you did not lose your job
:40:13. > :40:15.if you did not do what people wanted you to do.
:40:16. > :40:17.Do you still think of yourself as a feminist?
:40:18. > :40:21.Yes, I do, because I want women to be happy, fulfilled
:40:22. > :40:22.and have good lives, and die happy.
:40:23. > :40:27.If you look out on the streets and you see them carrying
:40:28. > :40:29.their shopping still and struggling to get their children
:40:30. > :40:32.from the nursery and to pay the mortgage and general anxiety,
:40:33. > :40:34.which everybody now is living, then I really feel
:40:35. > :40:44.Fay Weldon, thank you very much indeed.
:40:45. > :40:52.Before we go, astronomers today begin a week of peering
:40:53. > :40:55.into the never-before-seen event horizon of a black hole.
:40:56. > :40:56.They're using the appropriately named Event Horizon Telescope,
:40:57. > :40:59.which is so powerful, it can - so it's said -
:41:00. > :41:05.While we're waiting for the new results,
:41:06. > :41:07.we leave you with this simulation made by Astrophysics
:41:08. > :41:11.It's based on our current theories about Black Holes,
:41:12. > :42:11.Hello, it looks like it is going to turn really warm across England and
:42:12. > :42:15.Wales this weekend. In the next couple of days when the sun is out,
:42:16. > :42:16.it will feel quite warm, but the