06/04/2017

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:07. > :00:18.The Chinese President has just arrived in Florida for 24

:00:19. > :00:22.Potential flash points include Korea, Trade Wars - even Taiwan.

:00:23. > :00:23.So which President holds all the cards?

:00:24. > :00:26.Meanwhile - the Trump administration considers

:00:27. > :00:32.what action to take in Syria after that horrific chemical attack.

:00:33. > :00:39.We think what happened in Syria is a disgrace to humanity. And he's

:00:40. > :00:42.there, and I guess he's running things, so something should happen.

:00:43. > :00:44.Thanks, folks. I'll see you in a little while.

:00:45. > :00:52.we'll ask if a United Nations deal is still possible.

:00:53. > :00:57.It's his job to get the best deal for the EU out of Brexit.

:00:58. > :01:00.The Irish Foreign Minister tells me he sees no sign that our former

:01:01. > :01:06.Would free school meals mean kids do better in the classroom?

:01:07. > :01:10.We ask restauranteur Henry Dimbleby and former teacher Laura McInerny.

:01:11. > :01:16.We meet the Russian thrill seekers taking sometimes fatal risks

:01:17. > :01:33.Donald Trump watched his words tonight like a man

:01:34. > :01:36.who finally understood just how much trouble they could cause.

:01:37. > :01:39.It was on the flight to Mar El Lago, ahead of a meeting

:01:40. > :01:42.with his Chinese counterpart, that he skimmed the curtain divde

:01:43. > :01:45.to talk to the press corp and tell them, with as much

:01:46. > :01:48.diplomacy as he has perhaps ever mustered, that something must happen

:01:49. > :02:03.but first, to the more pressing question in hand:

:02:04. > :02:05.As the United Nations in New York works to find a resolution

:02:06. > :02:09.to condemn the chemical gas attack this week at the hands of Assad,

:02:10. > :02:11.the Pentagon has suggested it's looking for the appropriate

:02:12. > :02:12.response, including detailed discussions on military options.

:02:13. > :02:16.Our correspondent, Nick Bryant, is at the United Nations for us.

:02:17. > :02:22.Just interpret what you were hearing from the Pentagon, from America,

:02:23. > :02:27.tonight, and do you think it includes options for military

:02:28. > :02:32.action? They talk about a serious response, so increasingly it looks

:02:33. > :02:36.certain that that will be military. James Mattis, the Defence Secretary,

:02:37. > :02:41.was already going to be in Florida, but we now understand he will be

:02:42. > :02:45.presenting President Trump, the commander-in-chief, with various

:02:46. > :02:51.military options, one of which includes rounding Syrian aircraft.

:02:52. > :02:55.There is a lot of chatter at the possibility of not just a military

:02:56. > :02:59.strike but an imminent one, possibly as soon as the night, which would be

:03:00. > :03:07.aimed at the airbase in Syria from which America believes the planes

:03:08. > :03:12.took off carrying that chemical arsenal in Idlib province. An awful

:03:13. > :03:16.lot of chatter tonight in the Pentagon that the response will be

:03:17. > :03:21.military, and that that response is imminent. What is the rush in your

:03:22. > :03:26.understanding? Do you think he expects the UN resolution to fail,

:03:27. > :03:34.RAC simply trying to beat the UN to it? How do you read it? -- or is he

:03:35. > :03:40.simply trying. I have just received a text from someone in those

:03:41. > :03:43.negotiations, and their expectation is that Russia will veto the

:03:44. > :03:49.resolution under discussion. The French and British drafted the

:03:50. > :03:53.initial resolution, and the Americans came in with stronger

:03:54. > :03:56.language. They wanted access for international investigators to the

:03:57. > :04:00.airbases that they believe these attacks might have been carried out

:04:01. > :04:03.from, and they also wanted the Syrian military to hand over the

:04:04. > :04:09.flight logs on the day of the attack, on Tuesday. I expect the

:04:10. > :04:14.Americans will bring that to a vote in the next hour or two mac, and the

:04:15. > :04:18.Russians will raise their hand for the eighth time to veto a resolution

:04:19. > :04:26.directed against the Assad regime. The new UN ambassador from America

:04:27. > :04:29.said that if there was obstruction and Russian intransigence at the UN,

:04:30. > :04:35.then the Americans would take action. You can see a possible

:04:36. > :04:37.choreography here - a vote in the Security Council, the Russians veto

:04:38. > :04:41.the resolution which the Western nations have been calling for, and

:04:42. > :04:45.then the possibility of some kind of military action later on. Nick, it's

:04:46. > :04:46.fascinating and complicated. James Carafano is the Homeland

:04:47. > :04:55.security and foreign policy expert He might be able to cast a little

:04:56. > :05:00.light on what we are hearing in the last few moments. Have you

:05:01. > :05:05.understood that any kind of military strike by the United States is

:05:06. > :05:10.imminent? What do you make of that? I have heard the same chatter

:05:11. > :05:15.everybody else has. It fits and the notion of a narrowly targeted

:05:16. > :05:20.punitive strike, kind of saying, this is beyond the pale, that

:05:21. > :05:25.certainly seems possible. This is not something that would be part of

:05:26. > :05:30.a larger strategy dealing with regime change anything else. It

:05:31. > :05:38.would simply be warning shot against this kind of behaviour. It reminds

:05:39. > :05:42.me most of some of Reagan's punitive strikes that he did early in his ten

:05:43. > :05:50.year send to people messages. I think that seems to be the closest

:05:51. > :05:54.analogy of what we are expecting. President Trump would be putting

:05:55. > :05:57.himself not just against Basharat Hussain but against President Putin.

:05:58. > :06:01.That would be the first time those two mac had been set against each

:06:02. > :06:14.other so far. People miss the point. -- those two. We have seen no

:06:15. > :06:26.evidence of that apart from some tweets. President Trump has

:06:27. > :06:29.difficulty in getting over the idea... You don't want to do

:06:30. > :06:33.something that will escalate things, because no one wants to start world

:06:34. > :06:36.War three of others. It is a diversion. It would have to be a

:06:37. > :06:42.limited strike. The argument for sooner rather -- sooner rather than

:06:43. > :06:47.later is, do it and get it over with. If it is a limited strike, and

:06:48. > :06:50.we have heard Donald Trump trying to explain to the press corps on that

:06:51. > :06:54.flight tonight that he thinks something should happen to Assad,

:06:55. > :07:01.would it be limited but effective in terms of stopping Assad from going

:07:02. > :07:07.on, or not that far? It would be proportional. If you were attacking

:07:08. > :07:09.the military installations that were carrying out the chemical strikes,

:07:10. > :07:16.you could argue that's a proportional response. I don't think

:07:17. > :07:20.he is trying to take down the regime. People read way too much

:07:21. > :07:22.into that. James Carafano, thank you, and stay with us.

:07:23. > :07:25.Watch the handshake, the body-language and the words

:07:26. > :07:28.tonight - this is as good as it gets for diplomacy nerds.

:07:29. > :07:30.It's China meets America, Xi Jinping meets Trump,

:07:31. > :07:35.and the world's waiting to see who emerges on top.

:07:36. > :07:37.Perhaps they're not as different as they seem.

:07:38. > :07:41.Nationalists, businessmen who both recognize the Art of the Deal.

:07:42. > :07:44.Whether they both end up with one is the stuff of the next

:07:45. > :07:47.Trump fans still remember what he said about China

:07:48. > :07:56.The question is, does China - and will it bear a grudge?

:07:57. > :07:58.Look beyond the sun-kissed setting and you'll find a minefield.

:07:59. > :08:00.This is one of those encounters that matters.

:08:01. > :08:05.The big beasts get to stamp their ground

:08:06. > :08:07.in the same room, to the

:08:08. > :08:11.And this is where we really start to see who has

:08:12. > :08:14.the upper hand - Xi Jin Ping or the man who airs his

:08:15. > :08:19.diplomatic grievances on a chat show.

:08:20. > :08:22.The President of China's coming, a man named Xi Jin Ping.

:08:23. > :08:29.If you were president, would you throw him a big dinner?

:08:30. > :08:31.I'd get him a McDonald's hamburger and say,

:08:32. > :08:34.On the campaign trail, Trump never shied away

:08:35. > :08:39.We can't continue to allow China to rape our country.

:08:40. > :08:44.Jobs disappear, and the way the economy's going right

:08:45. > :08:48.For "rape", you might wish to read "trade".

:08:49. > :08:51.It's the thing that keeps his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, up at night,

:08:52. > :08:55.documentary on the subject he called death by China.

:08:56. > :08:57.President Trump has consistently criticised the large

:08:58. > :09:01.trade deficit between their two countries, currently around $350

:09:02. > :09:03.billion, an imbalance caused by American imports of cheap Chinese

:09:04. > :09:10.I don't think it's necessarily bad that a president

:09:11. > :09:12.came in having said tough things about China.

:09:13. > :09:18.It's almost the norm in American presidential politics, and

:09:19. > :09:22.George W Bush, who I worked for, said in the first months of his

:09:23. > :09:24.presidency, he would rise up and defend Taiwan if it is attacked,

:09:25. > :09:32.And over the next years, he had a very productive relationship with

:09:33. > :09:36.But there is also that small matter of nuclear

:09:37. > :09:42.Last week, Trump told the Financial Times that if China were

:09:43. > :09:48.unwilling to "solve" North Korea, he'd go it alone.

:09:49. > :09:50.The US is looking to China to implement

:09:51. > :09:53.sanctions against North Korea as punishment for its recent bout of

:09:54. > :10:03.The meeting of these superpowers, visualised so

:10:04. > :10:08.powerfully by the 1972 union of Mao and Nixon,

:10:09. > :10:10.who normalised relations after a 25-year freeze, has become a

:10:11. > :10:16.They expected that he, and the other deputy

:10:17. > :10:16.premier, should wear the

:10:17. > :10:20.Dong Xiaoping, magnificently incongruous at a Texas

:10:21. > :10:23.rodeo, paved the way for the next China trip -

:10:24. > :10:26.Reagan in 1984, when the full force of China's economic

:10:27. > :10:27.might was becoming too big to ignore.

:10:28. > :10:30.And by the time Obama met his counterpart, the pivot to Asia

:10:31. > :10:37.The United States is a Pacific nation, and we are very

:10:38. > :10:39.interested and very focused on continuing to strengthen our

:10:40. > :10:56.Some believe for all the easily satirised bellicose banter,

:10:57. > :10:58.famously sent up, you'll remember, on Saturday Night Live, his team's

:10:59. > :11:03.There is no major China policy in place, few old China hands in his

:11:04. > :11:08.He hasn't got a China strategy in place yet.

:11:09. > :11:10.That's why I think the Chinese government

:11:11. > :11:15.decided that it's worth their while to take

:11:16. > :11:17.the risk on President Trump and

:11:18. > :11:20.try to see whether they can persuade President Trump to approach

:11:21. > :11:22.relations with China more in a direction that the Chinese

:11:23. > :11:32.Trump needs to emerge from this with the

:11:33. > :11:34.promises of wins on trade and American jobs.

:11:35. > :11:37.He may well get that, but the Chinese may be looking

:11:38. > :11:42.significant longer term - confirmation of the reach of their

:11:43. > :11:45.power within the Asian neighbourhood.

:11:46. > :11:49.If Trump walks into simple linguistic traps many fear

:11:50. > :11:52.the sophisticated Xi will leave, the end result may look far more

:11:53. > :11:56.compromising, and it will matter to us all.

:11:57. > :12:02.Our China editor Carrie Gracie joins me now.

:12:03. > :12:10.How important is this encounter for Xi, and what does success look like

:12:11. > :12:13.for the Chinese right now? It is incredibly important. He has a

:12:14. > :12:17.Communist party congress at the end of this year and if he can bring

:12:18. > :12:21.home something he can call a victory from the biggest foreign policy

:12:22. > :12:26.stage, then that enormously strengthens him at home. They see

:12:27. > :12:31.this as a moment of danger, yes, a moment of risk, to head into Florida

:12:32. > :12:35.without an agenda, with this unpredictable counterpart, but on

:12:36. > :12:39.the other hand, it is a moment of opportunity. The US has no China

:12:40. > :12:47.strategy right now. As you were saying, it has no team for China.

:12:48. > :12:49.President Obama had a strategy - there was the transpacific

:12:50. > :12:55.partnership, the betrayed trade deal for Asia, underpinned by security

:12:56. > :12:58.alliances. Without the transpacific partnership, the whole of Asia is

:12:59. > :13:04.looking on and saying, what is the US policy in Asia? This is a time

:13:05. > :13:08.for China to step in while policy is unformed, and to help President

:13:09. > :13:12.Trump form it in a way that suits President Xi. I think for them, they

:13:13. > :13:18.see a lot they can do, and if they can just the live arena on trade to

:13:19. > :13:23.avert trade war if they can deliver enough to avoid serious secondary

:13:24. > :13:26.sanctions against Chinese firms on North Korea, then they can get the

:13:27. > :13:28.mood music right and Government call it a triumph. Thank you very much

:13:29. > :13:32.indeed. Joining me now from Washington

:13:33. > :13:34.is James Carafano, a Homeland Security and foreign

:13:35. > :13:36.policy expert from the In the studio are author and Chinese

:13:37. > :13:39.activist Diane Wei Liang, and Martin Jacques, an academic

:13:40. > :13:48.and author of When China Very nice to have you all here. What

:13:49. > :13:53.do you believe is at stake, Martin? I think an enormous amount is at

:13:54. > :13:59.stake, because from the Chinese point of view, this is the first

:14:00. > :14:06.time since Don Xiaoping that they have faced a situation of this kind,

:14:07. > :14:11.president in America who is on a different course to all the previous

:14:12. > :14:15.presidents. Why do you say that? Actually, a lot of them have gone in

:14:16. > :14:21.with the sabre rattling approach, haven't they? They haven't, like

:14:22. > :14:25.Trump, rejected the whole idea of the alliance system of the United

:14:26. > :14:28.States since 1945 and said, walk away from global leadership, what we

:14:29. > :14:33.want is America first. That is different from any other position.

:14:34. > :14:36.What we don't know is how far Trump will go along this course. We know

:14:37. > :14:41.he has had a lot of rhetoric about it, but we don't know how much he is

:14:42. > :14:44.actually going to do. James, I want to bring you in on that one point.

:14:45. > :14:48.Do you think we will hear the same rhetoric again from Trump? Does it

:14:49. > :14:53.still work in close proximity, one-on-one?

:14:54. > :14:58.No, I think that President Xi is well matched for President Trump, he

:14:59. > :15:02.can be serious and engaging and I think they could have a fairly

:15:03. > :15:05.productive discussion if they keep it at business level, I think you

:15:06. > :15:10.are right on trade, they could come out of the room and both feel like

:15:11. > :15:15.they can offer something. But, North Korea, because of the news, that's a

:15:16. > :15:22.top thing in the US, they will came in -- come in with a tough series of

:15:23. > :15:26.demands and demand China do things and give them 30 days to do

:15:27. > :15:30.something, it will include sanctioning Chinese companies which

:15:31. > :15:35.is absolutely on the table for the US. The administration is talking

:15:36. > :15:39.seriously about that threat. The perception is that Xi is incredibly

:15:40. > :15:42.well prepared for this and sophisticated, the kind of landmine

:15:43. > :15:49.traps that he can set for President Trump, what do you think he will be

:15:50. > :15:54.hoping for? Well, President Xi, I have to say, he has come in in a

:15:55. > :16:00.very strong position actually. I have two disagree with carry on this

:16:01. > :16:03.one, he is into the middle of his tenure -- I have to disagree with

:16:04. > :16:08.Carrie Gracie. He is even a strong position, although he has the

:16:09. > :16:12.People's Congress coming up. It's a rubber stamping, he has enormous

:16:13. > :16:16.support within China, the Chinese governorate has been used to

:16:17. > :16:24.American presidents coming in, and having a dip in the relationship.

:16:25. > :16:27.And, with every US president, the China US relationship had always

:16:28. > :16:33.deteriorated within the first six months. It did not go well with

:16:34. > :16:37.Barack Obama, he was a pacifist and facing the Pacific Ring, it didn't

:16:38. > :16:41.really work, do they admire President Trump's strongman? They

:16:42. > :16:50.see him as a deal-maker and they believe that he is one. Now they

:16:51. > :16:56.suspect that he might be a one trick pony, talk tough and try and get in

:16:57. > :17:02.to get a good negotiating position. For China, on trade, there is

:17:03. > :17:08.definitely room to manoeuvre, and North Korea also has room to

:17:09. > :17:13.manoeuvre. They could offer corporation. China is not an ally of

:17:14. > :17:20.North Korea. China does not want a military action. Or tens thousands

:17:21. > :17:30.of refugees at the border. May I strike a slightly optimistic note?

:17:31. > :17:33.If Xi and Tramp can get through this summit on reasonable terms, with a

:17:34. > :17:39.reasonable exchange getting on with reasonable chemistry -- President

:17:40. > :17:43.Trump. On one or two things they may reach some sort of agreement, a

:17:44. > :17:54.concession here, gains there, so one. It is not inconceivable down

:17:55. > :17:58.the road they could not actually strike a much bigger bargain. A much

:17:59. > :18:14.bigger global agreement. That is not impossible. You mean a different TBP

:18:15. > :18:23.or Nafta? There are things that China could do for the United

:18:24. > :18:29.States. For example, they could open up China to more sectors in the US,

:18:30. > :18:37.and invest serious money in American infrastructure. Either through the

:18:38. > :18:42.AIB or through direct form. China rebuilding America and making

:18:43. > :18:47.America great again? China could have a role in this... James, what

:18:48. > :18:52.are your thoughts? I do agree that they could come out of it looking

:18:53. > :18:57.strong, both of them, or they could accomplish nothing. But I do think

:18:58. > :19:00.this lady is some sort of grand bargain.

:19:01. > :19:05.It is very unreal. There are major strategy issues on the table that,

:19:06. > :19:09.ground is not going to be easy. The South China Sea, Taiwan, that is a

:19:10. > :19:15.bit like Pollyanna. But if we learn to get along, then

:19:16. > :19:21.yes. It is a start. Learn to get along... Until Donald Trump's

:19:22. > :19:26.supporters realise all the jobs that he said had gone to China haven't

:19:27. > :19:30.really but gone to automation? But it doesn't matter, as long as Donald

:19:31. > :19:37.Trump creates jobs, he will be re-elected. That is his challenge. I

:19:38. > :19:41.do not see Donald Trump getting into a trade agreement, and this is one

:19:42. > :19:45.thing that he does not believe in, the trade agreement. But I can see

:19:46. > :19:50.the bilateral relationship between China and the US... But can you see

:19:51. > :19:53.China opening up to more American investment and China wanting to

:19:54. > :19:58.rebuild the railways in America? China does want to invest in

:19:59. > :20:03.America. But opening up China's market can be tricky. It depends on

:20:04. > :20:07.how much you are talking about. China has got to open up to you

:20:08. > :20:16.about everything after America. They've been trying for the last

:20:17. > :20:21.three decades... Absolutely. The Chinese invested $42 billion, a big

:20:22. > :20:27.increase. And they have invested in carriages and the LA subway system,

:20:28. > :20:31.if I remember correctly. Certainly, these are private Chinese firms,

:20:32. > :20:33.some things are in motion already. Thank you very much for joining us.

:20:34. > :20:36.Time now for Viewsnight, the part of the programme we give

:20:37. > :20:38.to those with spiky views on prickly subjects.

:20:39. > :20:39.Tonight, it's the turn of George Mpanga -

:20:40. > :20:42.better known by his stage name, George The Poet.

:20:43. > :20:45.Here's his take on keeping it political.

:20:46. > :23:02.Theresa May has met Donald Tusk for the first time since

:23:03. > :23:05.the triggering of Article 50 - and since the negotiating terms

:23:06. > :23:08.Many are on tenterhooks about the details -

:23:09. > :23:11.Ireland now becomes one of the 27 nations that we will be

:23:12. > :23:13.looking to trade with - and will also crucially have a veto

:23:14. > :23:18.Earlier, I spoke to Charlie Flanagan, Irish Foreign Minister.

:23:19. > :23:21.I began by asking him if Ireland was worried that the rest of the EU

:23:22. > :23:26.would not make Brexit easy for Britain.

:23:27. > :23:30.I don't see any intent, I don't see any disposition

:23:31. > :23:32.on the part of my EU colleagues to exact retribution,

:23:33. > :23:39.I believe it is important that the process now proceeds

:23:40. > :23:47.Yes, there are unique circumstances in Ireland,

:23:48. > :23:51.that relationship between Ireland and Britain is the warmest ever,

:23:52. > :23:54.a positive and constructive relationship that one could only

:23:55. > :23:59.This has been the case under the umbrella of

:24:00. > :24:09.And it is important that that warm and friendly relationship continues

:24:10. > :24:12.Are you putting pressure on the EU now?

:24:13. > :24:19.Do you feel Ireland is being listened to?

:24:20. > :24:23.Ireland will remain firmly a member of the EU, having regard to the fact

:24:24. > :24:25.that our nearest neighbour, the UK, will be leaving.

:24:26. > :24:31.The process has now commenced, Article 50 has been invoked.

:24:32. > :24:36.I believe it is important in our context that we have a situation

:24:37. > :24:40.at the end of these negotiations in two years' time, maybe even

:24:41. > :24:46.longer, where a member of the EU, namely Ireland, cannot be placed

:24:47. > :24:49.in a position of more disadvantage than someone who is leaving.

:24:50. > :24:57.You think that this is going to be painful for Ireland, ultimately?

:24:58. > :25:00.I do - I believe it is going to be painful for Britain.

:25:01. > :25:02.I believe it will be painful, potentially, for Ireland.

:25:03. > :25:05.Ireland is not withdrawing from the EU.

:25:06. > :25:07.Ireland will remain firmly a member of the EU.

:25:08. > :25:11.Irish people enjoy our membership of the EU.

:25:12. > :25:13.But now we've got to grapple with our nearest

:25:14. > :25:22.Ireland will be the only English speaking member

:25:23. > :25:26.We acknowledge the fact that our legal system,

:25:27. > :25:27.our public administration, has been broadly similar

:25:28. > :25:36.Do you believe, are you confident, that a hard border can be avoided?

:25:37. > :25:39.Yes, I believe it is absolutely essential that a hard border

:25:40. > :25:48.We have made great strides here, particularly in the context

:25:49. > :25:52.of the peace process and the hard-won gains of the peace

:25:53. > :25:55.process, which is why I am here in Belfast this evening.

:25:56. > :25:59.It is absolutely essential that the open border remains

:26:00. > :26:17.For example, over 30,000 people travel over the border every day,

:26:18. > :26:19.crossing it to work or to school, or hospital appointments.

:26:20. > :26:20.So essentially, free movement will continue

:26:21. > :26:24.We have enjoyed, since our independence from Britain

:26:25. > :26:28.We have enjoyed the common travel arrangement between

:26:29. > :26:31.It is absolutely essential in the context of these

:26:32. > :26:35.negotiations, that the common travel arrangement endures and continues.

:26:36. > :26:38.I knowledge what Prime Minister May has said in that regard

:26:39. > :26:41.and what the Secretary of State in Northern Ireland James

:26:42. > :26:44.Brokenshire has said in that regard, that is Dublin's policy as well.

:26:45. > :26:47.It would be wrong then, to believe, Britain will start

:26:48. > :26:49.to control her own borders if this one essentially remain

:26:50. > :26:55.This is a matter entirely for the British government

:26:56. > :26:58.From our perspective here in Ireland, we must

:26:59. > :27:00.acknowledge the centrality of the Good Friday Agreement,

:27:01. > :27:02.the Belfast agreement, a legally binding internationally

:27:03. > :27:04.recognised document which brought an end to hostilities

:27:05. > :27:11.We saw deaths of over 3000 people in a 30 year period.

:27:12. > :27:15.The Good Friday Agreement remains the foundation stone of our peace,

:27:16. > :27:18.and anything adverse to that agreement will not be acceptable.

:27:19. > :27:22.I wonder, so on a very personal level, we saw Donald Tusk seem close

:27:23. > :27:24.to tears over the triggering of Article 50.

:27:25. > :27:29.Do you worry that you are losing a major ally at this point?

:27:30. > :27:33.I felt very sad and I believe I'm speaking on behalf of the majority

:27:34. > :27:35.of the Irish people when I say that we felt very sad

:27:36. > :27:38.about the decision of the British people to leave the EU.

:27:39. > :27:43.It was not our decision, I believe it was a bad decision

:27:44. > :27:47.but as a Democrat I fully respect and recognise the will and wishes

:27:48. > :27:51.The Article 50 process has commenced and I believe

:27:52. > :27:54.it is essential now that we get through the negotiations in such

:27:55. > :27:58.a way that the end result can be as close as possible a relationship

:27:59. > :28:03.between the EU and the United Kingdom, albeit with the UK gone.

:28:04. > :28:09.Charlie Flanagan, thank you very much indeed.

:28:10. > :28:12.Social media has certainly changed the way we view the world.

:28:13. > :28:15.We're more connected, more self-conscious, more interested

:28:16. > :28:18.in whether we are 'liked', but how far would you go

:28:19. > :28:22.Young Russians are at the forefront of a growing trend for extreme

:28:23. > :28:24.selfies and social media videos, performing life-threatening stunts

:28:25. > :28:29.to attract fans - even sponsors - and escape lives in dead-end towns.

:28:30. > :28:36.Lucy Ash has travelled to Siberia to find out why this

:28:37. > :28:38.is a particularly Russian phenomenon, and asks

:28:39. > :28:42.And of course, please don't try this at home -

:28:43. > :28:54.it's incredibly dangerous and many people have died doing it.

:28:55. > :29:14.On the outskirts of this city in southern Siberia,

:29:15. > :29:21.23-year-old Alexander Chernikov prepares for his most

:29:22. > :29:39.Police tell onlookers to stop filming, but footage of this

:29:40. > :29:48.Clocking up more than 10 million views in a month.

:29:49. > :30:02.Nine storeys high, set yourself on fire on the top,

:30:03. > :30:07.TRANSLATION: I felt a sense of victory, joy and pride in myself,

:30:08. > :30:10.that I was able to do it and survive.

:30:11. > :30:13.You are aware of that moment, that you're standing on the line

:30:14. > :30:20.And if something goes wrong, you might die.

:30:21. > :30:24.Would you do all this if you weren't filming it?

:30:25. > :30:31.TRANSLATION: I think that if I couldn't make

:30:32. > :30:36.an extreme selfie or video, I probably wouldn't do it.

:30:37. > :30:40.I would find a different way to get on in life,

:30:41. > :30:49.And it helps me to stand out and show off my achievements.

:30:50. > :31:09.It's inescapable, it comes to us all.

:31:10. > :31:12.In fact, dozens of young Russians have died, and hundreds more have

:31:13. > :31:14.been injured while trying to impress their Internet audience.

:31:15. > :31:16.Pavel Kashin fell 16 floors after trying to perform

:31:17. > :31:27.The Russian government is so worried about this trend it launched

:31:28. > :31:37.a safe selfie campaign, warning people to avoid posing

:31:38. > :31:40.on moving trains and high roofs, with wild animals, or with weapons.

:31:41. > :31:42.TRANSLATION: A Moscow office worker shot herself in the head

:31:43. > :31:45.with a flare gun as she attempted to take a selfie.

:31:46. > :31:52.When people press a button with one hand, they often squeeze

:31:53. > :32:01.This extreme selfie culture continues to grow in Russia.

:32:02. > :32:04.And it can have its rewards, as well as its risks...

:32:05. > :32:07.Angela Nikolau and her boyfriend climbed what is said to be

:32:08. > :32:10.the tallest crane in the world in China, some 640

:32:11. > :32:21.The daughter of a circus trapeze artist, Angela has sponsors,

:32:22. > :32:23.including fashion brands, camera companies, and travel firms

:32:24. > :32:32.which pick up the tab for her foreign ventures.

:32:33. > :32:34.The Moscow art student has around half a million

:32:35. > :32:36.followers on Instagram, and is now something

:32:37. > :32:42.of a celebrity, invited onto Russia's coolest chat show.

:32:43. > :32:46.Angela sees herself as an artist rather than an adrenaline junkie,

:32:47. > :32:54.and explains why filming her exploits is essential.

:32:55. > :32:56.TRANSLATION: Imagine an artist painting all alone in his studio,

:32:57. > :33:04.He does this for five years, just for himself, until he's

:33:05. > :33:17.He thinks, if no one sees my work, what am I doing it for?

:33:18. > :33:20.I think we are all created to produce things we

:33:21. > :33:23.Russia does not have a monopoly on risk, but young Russians

:33:24. > :33:26.are building a global reputation for being the most daring,

:33:27. > :33:28.or stupid, depending on your point of view.

:33:29. > :33:36.Maybe because nobody has really told them to stop,

:33:37. > :33:38.says Kirill Vselensky, one of Moscow's most infamous

:33:39. > :33:47.TRANSLATION: It's illegal here, but not that risky,

:33:48. > :33:50.because in America, Canada or Europe, the guys who do this

:33:51. > :33:53.stuff have to cover their faces and only climb at night

:33:54. > :33:55.because they can have serious problems with trespassing laws

:33:56. > :34:05.But here, we did not have many legal problems, which is why it

:34:06. > :34:12.It's a paradoxical situation, isn't it?

:34:13. > :34:16.TRANSLATION: If you don't get involved in politics,

:34:17. > :34:18.and don't bother people here, you can pretty much

:34:19. > :34:31.A Ukrainian friend of his climbed one of Moscow's landmark buildings

:34:32. > :34:33.and poured blue paint on the yellow star on top.

:34:34. > :34:41.He fled back to Kiev, and so the police raided

:34:42. > :34:43.Kirill's flat instead, and the young Muscovite wound up

:34:44. > :34:50.Like Angela, Kirill is a star on social media.

:34:51. > :34:58.His photos have been featured in magazines around the world.

:34:59. > :35:04.Back in Siberia, Alexander Chernikov continues to risk his life.

:35:05. > :35:17.Alexander works as a labourer from time to time,

:35:18. > :35:23.His dream is to be a stuntman - a film star even -

:35:24. > :35:29.and to escape what he sees as a dead-end life.

:35:30. > :35:31.TRANSLATION: Some of my friends just hang out in courtyards,

:35:32. > :35:35.Some are drug addicts, others are in prison.

:35:36. > :35:40.That's what young people here are like.

:35:41. > :35:43.There are very few people who strive for something, success in sport,

:35:44. > :36:08.TRANSLATION: Of course, of course, I want to leave this place.

:36:09. > :36:12.If you haven't lost your stomach already, we're going to talk about

:36:13. > :36:13.school meals now. The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,

:36:14. > :36:16.wants to extend free school meals to all primary school pupils

:36:17. > :36:19.in England and he says he'd cover the cost by introducing VAT

:36:20. > :36:21.on private school fees. The proposal is being sold

:36:22. > :36:23.as a measure that will - in his view - improve the health

:36:24. > :36:27.of many young children by "ending But would it have any direct effect

:36:28. > :36:38.on a child's performance in class? Laura McInerney iseditor of Schools

:36:39. > :36:41.Week and a former teacher joins me here with Henry Dimbleby,

:36:42. > :36:48.co author of the School Food Plan This is a pretty decent idea this,

:36:49. > :36:52.isn't it? It has to be something that can be seen to be helping kids.

:36:53. > :36:55.It is great that Jeremy Corbyn is looking at getting more money for

:36:56. > :37:00.schools, because they are squeezed at the moment. He's talking about ?1

:37:01. > :37:04.billion, which is incredible, but there is a problem: We don't have

:37:05. > :37:08.great data that shows that putting more money into meals for children

:37:09. > :37:12.makes that much difference to their outcomes, so you have to remember

:37:13. > :37:17.that children from low income families already do get free meals,

:37:18. > :37:24.but he wants to add meals for children from middle income and high

:37:25. > :37:29.income families as well. Just because we don't have the data

:37:30. > :37:32.doesn't mean it doesn't do good. If you have ?1 billion, do you give

:37:33. > :37:36.that to children who mostly have meals already, or do you do

:37:37. > :37:42.something different with it? Laura was a headteacher renew when the

:37:43. > :37:48.trials were run between 2009 in 2011. It is interesting and complex,

:37:49. > :37:52.the result from that trials. The children from Key stage two were

:37:53. > :37:56.almost one term ahead of where they were expected to be as a result.

:37:57. > :38:04.Other interventions were going on, but every single headteacher... And

:38:05. > :38:07.these kids were the more forced -- the most deprived? New baby food to

:38:08. > :38:14.everyone, and the poorer children did better. Every headteacher in new

:38:15. > :38:19.said it improved morale, behaviour and the cohesion of the school. You

:38:20. > :38:28.are not contradicting Laura, who says it might help the poorest, but

:38:29. > :38:33.it might not have the same benefits for the others. In order for it to

:38:34. > :38:37.help the poorest, you have to do it for everyone. Why? It is not just

:38:38. > :38:41.the chemical process of the food, making them not sleepy in the

:38:42. > :38:45.afternoon, it is the cohesion of having the whole school eating and

:38:46. > :38:51.working together that makes the difference. That makes difference,

:38:52. > :38:55.doesn't it, Laura? It does. I was a teacher at the time. As you

:38:56. > :38:58.mentioned, there was lots going on, many interventions. The authors of

:38:59. > :39:02.the report said themselves, yes, there was an increase in

:39:03. > :39:07.achievement, but we don't know that it was down to the food. We have had

:39:08. > :39:15.no further trials, even though, currently, under sevens do get free

:39:16. > :39:19.meals. The head teachers said it was a good idea, and there were other

:39:20. > :39:28.interesting benefits. For example, the amount of crisps eating went

:39:29. > :39:40.down 18%, fizzy drinks down by 18%, sandwiches down by 27%. So

:39:41. > :39:51.we have had the introduction of free school meals for 5-7 -year-olds. But

:39:52. > :39:57.not above? Why wouldn't you listen to a teacher, given that Laura has

:39:58. > :40:03.worked as the head of a school, why would you not take on board but she

:40:04. > :40:06.says? I have listen to lots of teachers and talked to

:40:07. > :40:10.schoolchildren. We agreed in certain areas that in terms of the roll-out

:40:11. > :40:14.of it, I would look at the areas with high free school meal

:40:15. > :40:21.percentages as the place to start, rather than a very affluent area.

:40:22. > :40:29.Laura, are you saying that you would not spend the money? I was a

:40:30. > :40:33.teacher, not a headteacher. I was reporting on this when we were

:40:34. > :40:36.seeing the roll-out across the country, nationally, and I suddenly

:40:37. > :40:40.realised that deprived parts of London where this was piloted are

:40:41. > :40:44.not the same as everywhere else in the country. You suddenly saw

:40:45. > :40:47.primary schools where loads of children already had food,

:40:48. > :40:52.everything was fine, it didn't have the kitchens to deliver it, so money

:40:53. > :40:55.was poured into schools to do up the kitchens, then children who already

:40:56. > :41:00.had food were given more money, and in the meantime, the pupils I was

:41:01. > :41:04.teaching in London, who were coming in without breakfast, who at half

:41:05. > :41:09.term do not get lunch, they don't get anything. If I had that money, I

:41:10. > :41:22.would have to think seriously, do I give that to a child... I would also

:41:23. > :41:26.spend it on breakfast. Michael Gove did well to protect the education

:41:27. > :41:29.budget. It is the most important thing. Do this and those things, and

:41:30. > :41:35.I think you will see our children grow up not only better but

:41:36. > :41:38.healthier. You must be a head chef as well, just to even it out.

:41:39. > :41:40.That's all we have time for this evening.

:41:41. > :41:43.But before we go, all politicians know that the odd egging or flour

:41:44. > :41:45.attack is part and parcel of political life.

:41:46. > :41:47.Nonetheless, spare a thought for Francois Fillon,

:41:48. > :41:49.who might well think the scale of this one today really

:41:50. > :42:59.MUSIC: Hoppipolla by Sigur Ros

:43:00. > :43:04.It will probably be a chilly start for southern and eastern parts of

:43:05. > :43:06.the UK tomorrow, but warming up quickly in the sunshine.