07/04/2017

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:00. > :00:07.The US takes a stand against chemical weapons...

:00:08. > :00:13.And the American president adopts a different tone.

:00:14. > :00:15.God bless America and the entire world.

:00:16. > :00:21.Sounds like a man engaging with the rest of us.

:00:22. > :00:23.Wasn't he meant to be the America-First president, the one

:00:24. > :00:26.willing to do deals with Russia and Assad?

:00:27. > :00:33.The Syrian government thinks America was duped.

:00:34. > :00:36.I think they fall to the trick, and they have changed

:00:37. > :00:42.unnecessarily what they thought about Syria.

:00:43. > :00:44.We'll ask what this means for Syria, the US and the

:00:45. > :00:50.And, while the world was reacting to that, a reminder of

:00:51. > :00:52.fraught times - another truck atrocity, this time in the Swedish

:00:53. > :00:59.I could actually see bodies lying on the street, and

:01:00. > :01:13.I could see the police covering a body with an orange blanket.

:01:14. > :01:17.Over three days, a huge shift in US policy to Syria.

:01:18. > :01:19.A new engagement with the world and, it seems, a fresh approach

:01:20. > :01:23.to foreign policy that sees America willing to bomb again.

:01:24. > :01:27.On one account, Trump means business, is willing to act

:01:28. > :01:29.fast and decisively, and is telling not just

:01:30. > :01:33.Syria, but Russia, Iran and North Korea to watch out.

:01:34. > :01:37.On this account, what Trump has done has exposed

:01:38. > :01:40.the vacillation of President Obama, and despots of the world will now

:01:41. > :01:44.In the UN Security Council, Nikki Haly, the US

:01:45. > :01:50.When the international community consistently fails in its duty

:01:51. > :01:53.to act collectively, there are times when states are

:01:54. > :01:59.The indiscriminate use of chemical weapons against innocent civilians

:02:00. > :02:09.The United States will not stand by when chemical weapons are used.

:02:10. > :02:13.It is in our vital national security interests to prevent the spread

:02:14. > :02:20.Too soon to call it a Trump doctrine, but there's no doubt,

:02:21. > :02:22.the launch of 59 Tomahawk Cruise missiles in the early hours

:02:23. > :02:25.of our morning suddenly made the world feel like a more familiar

:02:26. > :02:30.The US took a forceful stance, Russia and Iran

:02:31. > :02:37.France and Germany supported it too, as did Israel.

:02:38. > :02:45.Or was this a Trump just being capricious and inconsistent?

:02:46. > :02:52.Let's start by talking to the BBC's Middle East editor, Jeremy Bowen.

:02:53. > :02:59.We should start on Syria, Jeremy. How has this changed the course of

:03:00. > :03:04.the Serbian war? We don't know if it does yet. It depends if it is a

:03:05. > :03:08.one-off or it is part of a thought out US strategy, a new strategy, one

:03:09. > :03:12.that has a clear idea of what victory looks like, a clear idea of

:03:13. > :03:17.how they get there. That might change things. More attacks might

:03:18. > :03:21.change things as well, if the Americans choose to use more force.

:03:22. > :03:28.Actually changing the course of this terrible conflict, I think, will

:03:29. > :03:31.take more than simply one attack. Let's talk about Syria. We will hear

:03:32. > :03:37.from the Syrian Deputy Foreign Minister shortly. What has been

:03:38. > :03:41.going on there? It would obviously be very bad for America if it

:03:42. > :03:46.emerged that they had been duped and it wasn't the Syrians who have

:03:47. > :03:51.released sarin gas. What would be the theories as to why Syria might

:03:52. > :03:55.be engaging in chemical warfare this week? The regime absolutely denies

:03:56. > :04:00.they had anything to do with it, or ever had anything to do with

:04:01. > :04:04.chemical weapons. That's the first thing. There's one school of thought

:04:05. > :04:09.that says Assad would have been insane to use chemical weapons at

:04:10. > :04:12.this point. With his Russian friends, he has scored important

:04:13. > :04:16.victories, turned the tide of war in his favour, with Aleppo falling at

:04:17. > :04:22.the end of last year, a lot of bombing going on in Idlib province,

:04:23. > :04:25.a rebel holdout, in the last couple of months, and particularly in the

:04:26. > :04:31.last few weeks by the Russians, so why would he do it? Why would he

:04:32. > :04:36.want to get Trump, who was talking about him as part of the solution to

:04:37. > :04:40.Islamic State, and then bombing him? That is one thing. Another school of

:04:41. > :04:46.thought is that Assad and his people knew all of that but they got away

:04:47. > :04:52.with using chemical weapons in 2013. I say here that they deny they get.

:04:53. > :04:55.They got away with it in 2013, really wanted to show all those who

:04:56. > :05:01.oppose them that they would grind them into the dirt and so, as well

:05:02. > :05:06.as conventional weapons, they thought, what the hell, we have

:05:07. > :05:08.chemical weapons left over, we'll use them too. Will speak to the

:05:09. > :05:10.Deputy Foreign Minister shortly. It does seem like a hugely

:05:11. > :05:12.different Donald Trump to the one that was against bombing

:05:13. > :05:15.of Syria back in 2013, and who campaigned against US

:05:16. > :05:17.involvement in foreign wars. Many thought he could end up taking

:05:18. > :05:20.the US into isolation and yielding much of the world

:05:21. > :05:23.to the influence of President Putin. David Grossman considers how

:05:24. > :05:36.significant a shift it is. The eagle in the presidential seal

:05:37. > :05:40.carries both an olive branch and a clutch of arrows, the power to make

:05:41. > :05:44.peace or wage war. Before being elected, Donald Trump repeatedly

:05:45. > :05:50.warned America's real enemy was not the Assad Government but Islamist

:05:51. > :05:59.terrorism. I don't like Assad at all, but he is carrying the Luke

:06:00. > :06:04.killing Isis. -- but he is killing ices. He said very bad things would

:06:05. > :06:11.happen if America got involved. That view has clearly changed. Tonight, I

:06:12. > :06:19.ordered targeted military strikes on the airfield from which the chemical

:06:20. > :06:21.attack was launched. Trump has consistently emphasised that the

:06:22. > :06:26.priority in Syria should be fighting ices and even imply that one point

:06:27. > :06:31.during the campaign that Assad could be a partner in fighting ices. He

:06:32. > :06:45.said that Russia and Assad are fighting ices, so shouldn't we as

:06:46. > :06:50.well? -- fighting IS. The world is now trying to work out what our

:06:51. > :06:53.Trump 's ambitions and triggers in the region and a purpose for

:06:54. > :06:57.American involvement. The problems in this attack is limited to the

:06:58. > :07:01.specific objective of punishing and deterring Assad from using chemical

:07:02. > :07:05.weapons in the future. I think it will be effective for that limited

:07:06. > :07:11.objective. But of course, it doesn't deal with the more fundamental

:07:12. > :07:19.problem that the Assad Government is committing war crimes every day.

:07:20. > :07:29.TRANSLATION: This is what the damage on the ground look like, according

:07:30. > :07:40.to Russian television. TRANSLATION: This is an act of aggression does

:07:41. > :07:44.that reminds me of 2003 when the US and Britain invaded Iraq without the

:07:45. > :07:46.agreement of the UN Security Council, a major violation of

:07:47. > :07:51.international law. This of the photograph the White House released

:07:52. > :07:55.the president and his team the moment after the missiles it. There

:07:56. > :08:00.are obvious echoes with his predecessor and his advisers

:08:01. > :08:06.overseeing the operation to kill Osama bin London. President Trump's

:08:07. > :08:16.controversial chief strategist, Steve Bannon, is literally taking a

:08:17. > :08:21.back-seat. Hopefully Trump is starting to listen to people around

:08:22. > :08:25.him. Steve Bannon has been removed, and many were concerned about him.

:08:26. > :08:28.He has been removed from the National Security Council. I don't

:08:29. > :08:33.expect that everything Trump does in foreign policy will be a dumpster

:08:34. > :08:36.fire. I do think we are seeing a process of some normalisation of the

:08:37. > :08:40.administration is the people around him start getting their foot in.

:08:41. > :08:45.Last night's air strike has rather overshadowed another apparent

:08:46. > :08:50.foreign policy refinement from the Trump administrations an his

:08:51. > :08:56.attitude towards China. It is a tremendous honour for me and my

:08:57. > :09:04.representatives... Today, he was posting president Xi Jin Ping. He

:09:05. > :09:07.once described China as an enemy that was raping the American

:09:08. > :09:10.economy. Yellow Mikey has backed away from most of the controversial

:09:11. > :09:18.things he said before taking office, questioning the value of Nato, and

:09:19. > :09:28.US allies, questioning the US one China policy. -- he has backed away.

:09:29. > :09:31.He has proved to be much more moderate than candidate Trump. It

:09:32. > :09:39.reflects the responsibilities of office, in part, and that most of

:09:40. > :09:48.his foreign policy team are very mainstream. In any presidency, there

:09:49. > :09:51.are always two processes going on in parallel. The man shakes the offers,

:09:52. > :09:53.and the office shapes the man. Let's get the Syrian

:09:54. > :09:55.point of view now. Just for context, it's worth noting

:09:56. > :09:58.that quite apart from the sarin gas attack this week,

:09:59. > :10:01.and the ones in 2013, there have been chlorine gas attacks

:10:02. > :10:04.on more frequent occasions. Last year, the Organisation

:10:05. > :10:06.for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons,

:10:07. > :10:09.the OPCW, jointly with the UN, did find that the Syrian government

:10:10. > :10:13.was responsible for at least three of those, while there

:10:14. > :10:18.was insufficient evidence That may or may not be relevant

:10:19. > :10:24.to the assessment that the Syrian government was responsible

:10:25. > :10:26.for the latest sarin attack. Well, a little earlier

:10:27. > :10:30.I spoke to Faisal Mekdad, I asked him what he thought had

:10:31. > :10:34.happened in Idlib this week. What happened is that a fabricated

:10:35. > :10:46.incident of the use of chemical weapons in Khan Sheikhoun was made,

:10:47. > :10:49.and at the end of the game, the United States has come

:10:50. > :10:54.at the request of terrorist groups in Syria and bombarded

:10:55. > :10:59.a very important airport from which our planes go and attack

:11:00. > :11:03.Daesh and Jabhat al-Nusra What happened to ignite sarin gas

:11:04. > :11:14.in Khan Sheikhoun this week? I think the terrorist groups have

:11:15. > :11:21.hidden these materials, and we have reported this

:11:22. > :11:24.to the United Nations Security Council, and to the Organisation

:11:25. > :11:28.on the Prevention of Chemical Weapons, some time ago,

:11:29. > :11:37.and told them the terrorists groups, including Daesh and Jabhat al-Nusra,

:11:38. > :11:41.are bringing in chemical materials from Turkey and Iraq in order to use

:11:42. > :11:45.them in the war against Syria. The real story has not been yet

:11:46. > :11:50.confirmed because the whole area is under the control

:11:51. > :12:01.of a terrorist group. Is it your contention, Mr Mekdad,

:12:02. > :12:04.that the Syrian government has not used sarin gas or chlorine gas

:12:05. > :12:07.at any point in the In my capacity, as the chairman

:12:08. > :12:13.of the Syrian National Committee, on the implementation

:12:14. > :12:18.of our responsibility towards the OPC, the Organisation

:12:19. > :12:22.on Chemical Weapons, we have shipped all the materials

:12:23. > :12:35.on British, on French, on Finnish, on American ships, and we send them

:12:36. > :12:38.to be burned in those We have no whatsoever

:12:39. > :12:42.any chemical weapons, and the Syrian army has not

:12:43. > :12:44.and will never use them If we have to say what are the gains

:12:45. > :12:55.of the Syrian government between using traditional weapons,

:12:56. > :12:57.or using these chemicals, the traditional weapons

:12:58. > :13:00.would kill more terrorists So the Syrian army has no interest,

:13:01. > :13:15.no gains as, I mean, for the use Why has the Organisation

:13:16. > :13:17.for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in its joint

:13:18. > :13:21.investigative mechanism with the United Nations found

:13:22. > :13:23.that the Syrian government was responsible for chlorine attacks

:13:24. > :13:25.on various occasions, I read the report very carefully,

:13:26. > :13:35.and they said that they were not able to go to those areas

:13:36. > :13:37.because they are under the control of terrorist groups,

:13:38. > :13:40.and they said that there is a possibility that the Syrian

:13:41. > :13:47.Government may have used chlorine in these attacks,

:13:48. > :13:52.but there was no confirmation whatsoever of these incidents

:13:53. > :13:55.in the report given to the Security Mr Mekdad, can you understand why

:13:56. > :14:01.most of the world simply doesn't believe a word

:14:02. > :14:04.that the Syrian government says? We have seen the indiscriminate

:14:05. > :14:06.behaviour in terms of attacking civilians that has been exhibited

:14:07. > :14:11.in eastern Aleppo, just to take one example, and simply,

:14:12. > :14:12.your government doesn't have a reputation that

:14:13. > :14:19.anyone will stand by, and when you say that you're not

:14:20. > :14:22.behind chlorine gas attacks that other people say you are,

:14:23. > :14:26.or this latest attack this week. When we were liberating eastern

:14:27. > :14:32.Aleppo from the terrorist groups, the entire international community

:14:33. > :14:36.was mobilised against Syria. Recently, in attacks carried out

:14:37. > :14:41.by the same terrorist groups who occupied eastern Aleppo

:14:42. > :14:44.against Damascus, the capital of Syria, not a single

:14:45. > :14:48.incident was reported. During these attacks,

:14:49. > :14:50.many Syrian civilians, including children and women

:14:51. > :14:53.in the capital of Syria were killed as well,

:14:54. > :14:57.but the international community is standing with us strong,

:14:58. > :14:59.with the mobilisation of the international media,

:15:00. > :15:05.against the Syrian Government, with the support of certain

:15:06. > :15:07.governments like those What is your reaction going to be,

:15:08. > :15:17.to the American attack last night? This is an aggression

:15:18. > :15:22.against a sovereign country. acting within the charter,

:15:23. > :15:35.and the role of the Security Council to stop such attacks

:15:36. > :15:38.against sovereign country. Only a week ago, the position

:15:39. > :15:40.of the American Government, the Trump administration,

:15:41. > :15:42.well, it was that Assad is a matter for the Syrian people,

:15:43. > :15:45.not for the American Government, and effectively this week has seen

:15:46. > :15:48.a huge change in the approach This attack was fabricated,

:15:49. > :15:54.fabricated to change the position of the United States,

:15:55. > :15:59.of the Trump administration, against Syria, and I think

:16:00. > :16:01.the administration in Washington and other countries were subject

:16:02. > :16:03.to a misleading information that came to them, or have created such

:16:04. > :16:15.a thing to change these policies. The Americans are just a victim

:16:16. > :16:18.here, they have just been a bit dim and fallen for a trick against them,

:16:19. > :16:23.it's not that they have the best intelligence services

:16:24. > :16:24.and the biggest security administration in the world,

:16:25. > :16:27.it's just they are suckers, basically, they've fallen

:16:28. > :16:32.for a trick. I think they have fall to the trick,

:16:33. > :16:35.and they have changed unnecessarily In fact, their statements two weeks'

:16:36. > :16:40.ago or ten days ago contradict with what they have done today

:16:41. > :16:43.morning, in attacking Syrians and killing innocent children

:16:44. > :16:51.and women around Shayrat airport. Do you ever stand back and think

:16:52. > :16:54.there are a lot of people in Syria Your country has fallen

:16:55. > :17:01.apart under him. It's in the grip of

:17:02. > :17:04.a horrendous Civil War. Do you ever think, would it not just

:17:05. > :17:07.be helpful if this guy stood out of the way or said he was willing

:17:08. > :17:11.to stand out of the way if there was a peace process, do

:17:12. > :17:14.you never look at what is happening to Syria, and think "My goodness,

:17:15. > :17:17.we need to do something here, rather than just stand and fight

:17:18. > :17:21.and bomb our own people"? After the election of

:17:22. > :17:23.President Trump, and even in the UK, in France,

:17:24. > :17:25.people, I mean a lot of people hate his election,

:17:26. > :17:28.a lot of people hate President A lot of people hate Prime Minister,

:17:29. > :17:32.the Prime Minister in the UK, but they have never resorted

:17:33. > :17:34.to the use of weapons to express themselves

:17:35. > :17:36.as what happened in Syria. In Syria we have a lot of people

:17:37. > :17:39.who support policies His role in combatting terrorism,

:17:40. > :17:51.his role in bringing peace back into Syria,

:17:52. > :17:53.so President Assad was elected, He was not elected in the same way

:17:54. > :18:12.as the British Government No, what you are saying

:18:13. > :18:18.is ridiculous because you admit elections in the UK,

:18:19. > :18:20.but you don't elect, Tens of thousands of people have

:18:21. > :18:25.gone to the embassy of Syria, in Lebanon to elect

:18:26. > :18:27.President Bashar al-Assad. He is more legitimate than many

:18:28. > :18:30.of the European leaders you have, but these are not the questions

:18:31. > :18:36.to be asked. Faisal Mekdad, thank

:18:37. > :18:40.you for giving us your time. Between 2013 and 2015,

:18:41. > :19:01.he was special adviser Good evening to you. Do you welcome

:19:02. > :19:05.what President Trump did last night. Within limit, I think it is the

:19:06. > :19:10.right thing to do, to respond and make clear that the United States is

:19:11. > :19:15.not going to allow the regime to use chemical weapons, and I think

:19:16. > :19:19.failing to act in some way, would send a message to Assad who was

:19:20. > :19:22.clearly testing President Trump, go right ahead, use chemical weapons as

:19:23. > :19:28.much as you like, so I think there was a case for it and I am glad we

:19:29. > :19:32.did it, but I am also concerned about the consequences and the risk

:19:33. > :19:38.of slippery slope and this administration is going to have to

:19:39. > :19:42.be really disciplined in ensure that this doesn't lead us into conflict

:19:43. > :19:45.in Syria, and discipline is not exactly been the hallmark of this

:19:46. > :19:51.administration. A lot of people say this is a huge shift, in the course

:19:52. > :19:56.of a week, from saying Assad is sort of Syria's problem, to getting

:19:57. > :19:59.pulled in as it is. Do you see this as a major shift, a strategic

:20:00. > :20:06.change, or do you see this as a rush of blood to the head in a one off?

:20:07. > :20:09.Well, it is definitely a head spinning change, I mean, I don't

:20:10. > :20:13.think it's a change in the overall strategy but just? Terms of the

:20:14. > :20:18.contrast with Donald Trump's position on this issue, for six

:20:19. > :20:24.year, it is indeed 180 degrees, he has all along from the start of the

:20:25. > :20:29.conflict been opposed to American intervention, he said Obama's red

:20:30. > :20:33.line was dumb to have issued and was against enfor forcing it at the

:20:34. > :20:36.time. You can't just say that well, it all changed because there was a

:20:37. > :20:41.chemical weapon attack, the chemical weapon attack in 2013 was with the

:20:42. > :20:45.same sort of substance and it killed about 15 times as many people. So in

:20:46. > :20:51.that case he was against it, now suddenly this week, he is for it,

:20:52. > :20:54.only days after administration representatives had signalled they

:20:55. > :21:00.were OK with Assad staying in power. So in that sense... Are you feeling

:21:01. > :21:05.more positive, sorry to interrupt, are you feeling more positive about

:21:06. > :21:11.President Trump. He has done what I suspect President Obama wishes he

:21:12. > :21:15.has done, back if 2013, hasn't he? Well, I don't know if President

:21:16. > :21:21.Obama wishes he has done that, he is on the record recently as saying he

:21:22. > :21:25.thought it came out better than it would have had, and the logic there

:21:26. > :21:30.is, that is my caution about feeling so good about what happened now,

:21:31. > :21:33.nobody, we are 12 hours or whatever after the strikes, critics or people

:21:34. > :21:37.who are concerned about where it leads never thought that the bad

:21:38. > :21:40.things would happen in 12 hours and President Obama didn't think that

:21:41. > :21:43.then, the concern is that you feel good about an initial set of

:21:44. > :21:48.strikes, but then down the road, you know, the others get a vote to. What

:21:49. > :21:52.does Assad do now and what does Putin do now? I am concerned, even

:21:53. > :21:57.though I think it was the right thing for the United States to

:21:58. > :22:01.respond, there will be a reaction from the other side, and I think it

:22:02. > :22:05.won't be long before Assad is challenging Trump again, maybe not

:22:06. > :22:09.with chemical weapons but possibly bombing the same parts of Idlib with

:22:10. > :22:13.barrel bombs and other munitions and killing lots of people and saying,

:22:14. > :22:21.sorry, you really haven't changed the course of war.

:22:22. > :22:24.And that will give a dilemma. Do you think the foreign policy is

:22:25. > :22:28.normalising, under Donald Trump? I wonder whether that is because there

:22:29. > :22:32.is something of a kind of, not a battle, but there are different

:22:33. > :22:39.advisers telling him different things and he seems to be leaning

:22:40. > :22:42.towards, if you like, the more conventional foreign policy add

:22:43. > :22:47.video -- adviser, is that is what is going on. That is what is going on.

:22:48. > :22:51.If you set aside the must irand the tweets and the dust that gets kicked

:22:52. > :22:56.up by what this President sometimes says when you look at major policy

:22:57. > :23:00.on major strategic issues they are coming out in a fairly convention

:23:01. > :23:04.Way, the style is far from conventional, you have to

:23:05. > :23:09.acknowledge that, in contrast to campaign positions, he said he would

:23:10. > :23:14.dismantle the Iran nuclear deal. It turns out he doesn't want do that.

:23:15. > :23:18.He questioned a China policy as the transition and he is meeting with

:23:19. > :23:22.the President of China and sticking with the one China policy, he said

:23:23. > :23:27.he would move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, then decided it wasn't

:23:28. > :23:30.such a great idea. He questioned Nato's utility and sent his Vice

:23:31. > :23:38.President to Nato to say good things about it. You have gone from quite

:23:39. > :23:41.radical unconventional challenging positions, to much more mainstream

:23:42. > :23:46.and then as you say the personnel is becoming more mainstream as well.

:23:47. > :23:53.General Flynn was a radical, he lasted 24 days. He has been replaced

:23:54. > :23:55.by a much more conventional national security adviser, the Secretary of

:23:56. > :24:00.Defence, Secretary of State. It is moving in a much more traditional

:24:01. > :24:04.direction. We still have a President who is impulsive and as we saw

:24:05. > :24:08.yesterday can change on the dime as if his previous positions had no

:24:09. > :24:09.meaning whatsoever. Thank you very much indeed.

:24:10. > :24:15.And again, it was a vehicle that was used as a weapon to cause death.

:24:16. > :24:19.It really seems that this has become the default method for those

:24:20. > :24:23.In this case, a beer truck was used, which had been hijacked

:24:24. > :24:28.There was panic in the streets of Stockholm today, as shoppers

:24:29. > :24:30.in the centre of the city ran from a suspected terror attack.

:24:31. > :24:33.A lorry smashed into a department store, before bursting into flames.

:24:34. > :24:35.The Swedish Prime Minister, Stefan Lofven spoke this evening,

:24:36. > :24:43.to express the nation's shock and anger.

:24:44. > :24:45.Thoughts, concerns and condolences have reached many of us

:24:46. > :24:53.And we are grateful for the many warm expressions

:24:54. > :24:59.We are determined never to let the values that we treasure,

:25:00. > :25:01.democracy, human rights, and freedom to be

:25:02. > :25:13.It's been a little confusing this evening, with the suggestion

:25:14. > :25:16.that the police had picked up a suspect, but followed up

:25:17. > :25:19.by a claim that they were still looking for the killer.

:25:20. > :25:21.BBC correspondent Dan Johnson is in Stockholm, and just

:25:22. > :25:24.before we came on air, he brought us up to date

:25:25. > :25:33.Well there is a strange atmosphere here tonight. Swedes are

:25:34. > :25:38.contemplating what happened here earlier and what it may mean for the

:25:39. > :25:42.future, now, the Prime Minister was clear that he said this had all the

:25:43. > :25:45.hallmarks of an acts of terrorism, but at the moment we have had

:25:46. > :25:48.nothing more officially about who may have been involved in this, or

:25:49. > :25:52.what their motivation may have been. We know the police are questioning

:25:53. > :25:55.one man and they are urgently seeking another. They have put

:25:56. > :25:59.images out tonight of somebody they want to talk to, and we know there

:26:00. > :26:03.are extra police on the streets of this city, and across Sweden, and

:26:04. > :26:07.there are extra border checks in place too. Now, there are

:26:08. > :26:12.potentially big questions raised by what has happened here today. It is

:26:13. > :26:14.a huge challenge for security services, here and everywhere

:26:15. > :26:19.really. How to keep people safe when they are walking through a city like

:26:20. > :26:25.this, if someone is prepared to kill, using an every day object,

:26:26. > :26:31.like a delivery truck, that is what was driven through a bed ran niced

:26:32. > :26:36.street today at shopper who had to run to save their live, we know that

:26:37. > :26:41.four people died and 15 are being treated this evening, nine of them

:26:42. > :26:45.seriously ilk and there will be questions in the future about

:26:46. > :26:48.exactly what was behind this attack and that will raise issues perhaps

:26:49. > :26:52.about what extra security measures need to be put in place. Sweden has

:26:53. > :26:56.a proud history of being an open society, that embraces all, but we

:26:57. > :26:59.will have to wait for more detail on exactly what could have been behind

:27:00. > :27:07.this attack before we know the true impact it will have.

:27:08. > :27:09.Just before coming on air, I spoke to Peter Wolodarski,

:27:10. > :27:11.broadcaster and editor of Dagens Nyheter, a liberal-leaning

:27:12. > :27:19.I asked him what the mood was in Sweden tonight.

:27:20. > :27:21.Tonight people, I think, feel a sense of they want

:27:22. > :27:25.We also saw that in the afternoon, an outpouring of support to each

:27:26. > :27:27.other, with transportation, with letting in people

:27:28. > :27:31.That was also part of the reaction today.

:27:32. > :27:34.I mean, we have seen events of this kind,

:27:35. > :27:36.I mean, very close to this, in Berlin, in Paris,

:27:37. > :27:47.Clearly it looks like a terror incident, and it bears resemblance

:27:48. > :27:49.to what we've seen in other places in Europe.

:27:50. > :27:53.We can talk about it before it happens, but when it happens,

:27:54. > :28:03.it's very dramatic, and you can never be fully prepared for that.

:28:04. > :28:05.But do you think this will contribute to a sense

:28:06. > :28:09.of uncertainty about the direction that Sweden is taking?

:28:10. > :28:12.I think it's too early to draw a conclusion like that.

:28:13. > :28:14.It will definitely affect our political discourse.

:28:15. > :28:16.If it affects our way of life, I'm not that sure.

:28:17. > :28:19.We actually, we had a terror incident in 2010, a suicide bomber

:28:20. > :28:23.No-one was killed at that time except the suicide bomber,

:28:24. > :28:41.so it was not the first time that terror strikes in Stockholm.

:28:42. > :28:44.We know that Donald Trump made some comment about Sweden

:28:45. > :28:47.and the difficulties it was having, and there was a certain sensitive

:28:48. > :28:51.I mean, everybody in Sweden noted that he said Sweden was this problem

:28:52. > :28:56.country that had let too many migrants in.

:28:57. > :28:58.I just wonder whether those words will be echoing to some extent

:28:59. > :29:00.around Sweden this evening and people will feel

:29:01. > :29:08.frustrated to some extent that the President said that.

:29:09. > :29:11.From some corners in society we will definitely hear that.

:29:12. > :29:13.What Donald Trump did was to spread false information

:29:14. > :29:18.about what was happening in Sweden, the day before he was talking.

:29:19. > :29:21.But we'll see who is behind this, if there is any link to immigration,

:29:22. > :29:24.or to refugees, or the situation in Syria, who takes responsibility

:29:25. > :29:33.I think it is too early tonight to draw conclusions

:29:34. > :29:35.about what we can - who is really behind this.

:29:36. > :29:43.Does it matter who it is, that is the perpetrator?

:29:44. > :29:50.We had acts of terror from the right-wing in Sweden as well.

:29:51. > :29:55.It was not that widely reported throughout the world but we have

:29:56. > :29:59.Jihadism is a serious problem in Europe, and Sweden

:30:00. > :30:02.Let's wait and see what this really is.

:30:03. > :30:04.The perpetrator or the perpetrators might still be at large,

:30:05. > :30:19.Peter Wolodarski, Thank you very much.

:30:20. > :30:37.Lovely weekend in store for many of us.

:30:38. > :30:39.It'll start off a bit chilly on Saturday morning,

:30:40. > :30:43.but it will warm up very quickly in the sunshine, and as you can see,