13/04/2017

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:00:00. > :00:10.10,000 kilograms of bomb, the biggest no-nuke ever deployed,

:00:11. > :00:12.dropped onto the tunnels used by Isis in Afghanistan.

:00:13. > :00:16.Is America trying to tell us something?

:00:17. > :00:21.We are so proud of our military and it was another successful event.

:00:22. > :00:28.Uh, everybody knows exactly what happened, so what

:00:29. > :00:35.The US military made the decision to use it.

:00:36. > :00:37.We'll ask if it's a sign of a military more willing

:00:38. > :00:45.We've been hearing for ages about the squeezed middles

:00:46. > :00:48.and the just about managing, but now the Government is helpfully

:00:49. > :01:01.We now know that Enceladus has almost all of the ingredients

:01:02. > :01:05.to support life as we know it on Earth.

:01:06. > :01:17.But should we even be looking for extra-terrestrials?

:01:18. > :01:22.GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast, or MOAB.

:01:23. > :01:27.And it was dropped in Afghanistan earlier today, aimed at the tunnels

:01:28. > :01:31.used by the Afghan branch of so-called Islamic State.

:01:32. > :01:36.The Americans have never used a conventional weapon

:01:37. > :01:38.this powerful in combat, and given everything that has been

:01:39. > :01:41.happening in US foreign policy, it is no wonder that everybody

:01:42. > :01:49.Now, don't fall for some of the hyperbole - it's huge,

:01:50. > :01:51.but it would take more than a thousand of these

:01:52. > :01:55.But does it tell us something about the willingness of the US

:01:56. > :01:57.military to flex its muscle in the world?

:01:58. > :02:03.I'm joined by our diplomatic editor Mark Urban.

:02:04. > :02:12.As a bomb, is this a big threshold through which the world has passed

:02:13. > :02:17.today? I'm not sure. The RAF's Grand Slam that was dropped in World War

:02:18. > :02:22.II was just slightly below this in size. These sort of super bombs are

:02:23. > :02:25.clearly meant to have some kind of propaganda or psychological

:02:26. > :02:29.operations effect. But if you go back in Afghanistan to the early

:02:30. > :02:37.days of American operations after 9/11 in 2001-2, they dropped several

:02:38. > :02:41.examples of a thing called the BLU82 daisy cutter which is only slightly

:02:42. > :02:44.smaller than this. So this mega- bomb theory has been tried before.

:02:45. > :02:49.You could argue that they were doing it in 2001 and they are still doing

:02:50. > :02:54.it, so the effect can't be that great. Do you think it is political

:02:55. > :03:00.signalling, or is it a political tactic or that someone has tried? It

:03:01. > :03:06.was characterised today by the White House as a thing that came from the

:03:07. > :03:09.military. It was mentioned that the commander in Afghanistan wanted this

:03:10. > :03:13.to deal with this cave system. And I think it is an iPod with other

:03:14. > :03:19.things we have been seeing. You have a military which under President

:03:20. > :03:22.Obama, there were often chafing at the bit and would be complaining to

:03:23. > :03:28.us that they felt restricted in what they could do. Now under President

:03:29. > :03:32.Trump, far less so. It seems general Matias is fully empowered to take

:03:33. > :03:33.all kinds of decisions and we are seeing the consequences of that in

:03:34. > :03:36.many different places. The announcement was certainly

:03:37. > :03:37.headline-grabbing - the use of a huge munition to attack

:03:38. > :03:47.a cave complex in Afghanistan. The so-called mother of all bombs

:03:48. > :03:50.is so big that it drops from the tail ramp of a Hercules

:03:51. > :03:59.transport aircraft. When it detonates, it creates

:04:00. > :04:01.a one-mile-radius shock wave. The White House characterised it

:04:02. > :04:04.as a military decision. The United States takes the fight

:04:05. > :04:07.against Isis very seriously. In order to defeat the group,

:04:08. > :04:10.we must deny them operational The United States took

:04:11. > :04:14.all precautions necessary to prevent civilian casualties and collateral

:04:15. > :04:21.damage as a result of the operation. A little later, President Trump

:04:22. > :04:27.was asked about it. We're very, very proud

:04:28. > :04:31.of our military. Just like we're proud

:04:32. > :04:34.of the folks in this room, we are so proud of our military,

:04:35. > :04:37.and it was another successful event. Everybody knows

:04:38. > :04:39.exactly what happened. What I do is,

:04:40. > :04:42.I authorise my military. We have the greatest military

:04:43. > :04:44.in the world, and they have So we have given them

:04:45. > :04:48.total authorisation. The new administration launched

:04:49. > :04:50.a special operations raid It stepped up activities in Libya

:04:51. > :04:57.and Newsnight understands that it has also deployed US special

:04:58. > :05:02.operators in Mogadishu, Somalia, But the biggest operational change

:05:03. > :05:08.has come in the campaign against the IS group

:05:09. > :05:12.in Iraq and Syria. There, raids have been stepped up

:05:13. > :05:16.and the rules of engagement relaxed, leading to claims that civilian

:05:17. > :05:20.casualties have In fact, the number of actions in

:05:21. > :05:26.Syria for March were down slightly. The number of targets hit

:05:27. > :05:30.by the Americans was down. But the number of civilian deaths

:05:31. > :05:33.we think likely went up sixfold. We think more than 300

:05:34. > :05:36.civilians died in March We've never seen numbers

:05:37. > :05:41.like that before. I think that is the clearest

:05:42. > :05:46.indication yet that and civilians are at greater risk

:05:47. > :05:49.of harm because of that. Early reports suggest

:05:50. > :05:54.that it was a military decision to drop such a big weapon

:05:55. > :05:57.in Afghanistan, and that seems to be the pattern of a president who has

:05:58. > :05:59.devolved considerable powers to the Pentagon to prosecute

:06:00. > :06:01.a more aggressive campaign Kurt Volker is the former

:06:02. > :06:20.US Ambassador to Nato Do you think this is a significant

:06:21. > :06:24.change in the relationship between the government of the US and the

:06:25. > :06:29.military? Have they unleashed the military to do what they will? I

:06:30. > :06:33.would phrase that differently. There is a change, but the change is to

:06:34. > :06:38.give the military a clearer and more ambitious mission and to then give

:06:39. > :06:44.them the authorisation to carry that out, not to act without any

:06:45. > :06:48.constraint of law, not to act in ways that would have the US

:06:49. > :06:53.committing war crimes, but to say the mission is to destroy Isis. The

:06:54. > :06:58.mission is to stabilise Afghanistan. Go and do that. What we had

:06:59. > :07:01.previously was a lot of micromanagement of decisions. What

:07:02. > :07:05.ordnance will we use? How much free reign with the military have? The

:07:06. > :07:08.mission for Isis was to degrade rather than destroy it? This is

:07:09. > :07:14.giving the military a clear mission and giving them authority to carry

:07:15. > :07:18.that out. Do you welcome that? I certainly do. It is important not

:07:19. > :07:21.only for the military to be effective, it is an important signal

:07:22. > :07:27.to adversaries, whether it is Isis or the Taliban, that they will now

:07:28. > :07:33.face an American and a coalition force that is prepared to do what is

:07:34. > :07:38.necessary to do the job. That will have an effect on their morale,

:07:39. > :07:42.psychology and operations. It will give momentum back to the

:07:43. > :07:45.international effort. You have used the word I was going to put in my

:07:46. > :07:51.next question, which is signalling. Do you think that is an important

:07:52. > :07:58.part of a military strategy? You mentioned Syria and Isis. The one a

:07:59. > :08:01.lot of people are thinking about is Kim Jong-Un and North Korea. Do you

:08:02. > :08:07.think there is any element of deciding on these things in order to

:08:08. > :08:12.say to someone like him, watch out? It does start as an operational and

:08:13. > :08:16.effectiveness question. What does it take to be effective? Here, it is

:08:17. > :08:20.targeting the mission in Afghanistan, targeting Isis and the

:08:21. > :08:25.Taliban. That is the starting point. That said, when you are conveying to

:08:26. > :08:28.the world that the United States is willing to take decisions and act

:08:29. > :08:33.and will be effective, that is a signal that will be picked up by

:08:34. > :08:36.people around the world, probably in a fortuitous way. Someone like Kim

:08:37. > :08:41.Jong-Un in North Korea will be thinking twice about the seriousness

:08:42. > :08:46.and effectiveness of the US. What do we think about the civilian deaths?

:08:47. > :08:51.We have been hearing more of them in Syria. One of the things Obama

:08:52. > :08:55.wanted to do was to improve the reputation and image of the US

:08:56. > :08:59.around the world. It seemed that every civilian death paying him

:09:00. > :09:03.personally. I wonder whether that pendulum is going to swing back the

:09:04. > :09:07.other way and the US will take some brand damage if it is shown to be

:09:08. > :09:13.more willing to have collateral damage. Actually, it speaks well of

:09:14. > :09:17.President Obama that he was so pained at civilian deaths. We should

:09:18. > :09:20.do everything possible to minimise that. We have to balance this in

:09:21. > :09:26.terms of proportionality and achieving the mission. The reason we

:09:27. > :09:31.are in Afghanistan, the reason we are in Syria is because of Isis Arma

:09:32. > :09:35.because of the Assad regime, because of the chemical weapons used in

:09:36. > :09:41.Syria, what they have done to their own populations. Without US

:09:42. > :09:44.involvement, there are already 11 million refugees that have spilled

:09:45. > :09:50.out of Syria fleeing the conflict, 500,000 people killed. So I agree

:09:51. > :09:54.with the sentiment that we need to do what we can to minimise civilian

:09:55. > :09:59.casualties, but we can't minimise to the extent that we are not having an

:10:00. > :10:03.impact on the conflict. Do you think the president knew this was about to

:10:04. > :10:08.happen this afternoon, or do you think he has delegated so much that

:10:09. > :10:12.he is told afterwards or sees it on CNN? I don't have a window into the

:10:13. > :10:17.way the briefings work inside the White House. I do believe he is

:10:18. > :10:20.someone who is going to give the military and General Mattis in

:10:21. > :10:24.mission and say, go do it. I also believe General Mattis and others

:10:25. > :10:28.will be briefing constantly. They will be letting the president know

:10:29. > :10:32.the status of operations. So in normal circumstances, I think he

:10:33. > :10:35.would have been briefed. Ambassador, thanks very much.

:10:36. > :10:37.The Oxford Dictionary's word of the year for 2011

:10:38. > :10:41.It was the group identified by Ed Miliband as needing a bit

:10:42. > :10:44.of tender loving care, working people, often

:10:45. > :10:54.Mr Miliband famously struggled to define the group.

:10:55. > :10:59.It was around average income, he said, not on six-figure salaries.

:11:00. > :11:02.Well, hard-working families have long been politically appealing.

:11:03. > :11:05.Then Theresa May famously talked of JAMs - the just about managing.

:11:06. > :11:07.Then JAMs became OWFs - ordinary working families.

:11:08. > :11:10.But it is only now that any government has tried

:11:11. > :11:17.As part of its thinking on grammar schools, the Government has tied

:11:18. > :11:19.itself to a definition of who they are.

:11:20. > :11:22.It's the group of working families on below average income,

:11:23. > :11:26.Is it useful to think about this group as a defined tribe?

:11:27. > :11:33.We'll discuss that shortly, but first here's Chris Cook.

:11:34. > :11:40.Today, we got some clarity about an important question. Who exactly are

:11:41. > :11:45.these ordinary working families that the Government keeps going on about?

:11:46. > :11:50.We want to provide a clear analysis of the situation of how these

:11:51. > :11:56.children of ordinary working families are faring in our education

:11:57. > :12:00.system and for measuring how our wider reforms can do better for

:12:01. > :12:05.these families and so better for the country. This group, the OWFs, our

:12:06. > :12:11.success soars to a previous favourite of Theresa May's, the just

:12:12. > :12:15.about managings, or Jams. Let's think about who we are talking about

:12:16. > :12:19.when I talk about the just about managing. These are people who have

:12:20. > :12:22.a job but worry about their job security or have a home but worry

:12:23. > :12:36.about paying the mortgage. Who, then, goes in the jamjar? Who it is

:12:37. > :12:49.and General Mattis? -- who is and OWF? Below median income, but not on

:12:50. > :12:54.free school meals is an OWF. What is median income? The median income for

:12:55. > :12:58.up two parent family with two teenage children is ?33,000. For a

:12:59. > :13:03.lone parent with one young child, it is ?70,000. The amount varies with

:13:04. > :13:09.your family type. Education purists have been puzzling today about why

:13:10. > :13:12.the Government is so interested in these so-called OWFs. That is

:13:13. > :13:16.because the research that ministers have published doesn't really make

:13:17. > :13:20.the case that the OWFs have been particularly overlooked. For

:13:21. > :13:24.example, the OWFs, unlike the poorest children, don't seem to have

:13:25. > :13:30.particular trouble getting into good schools, be they comprehensive or

:13:31. > :13:34.selective. And while it is true that across England, the richer you are,

:13:35. > :13:38.the better your grades seem to be, and that is a particular problem for

:13:39. > :13:44.the OWFs. It is not unique to them, it is a problem for the whole

:13:45. > :13:50.education system. But the OWF analysis helps the Government Selt

:13:51. > :13:55.grammar schools. A lot more OWFs schools getting to selective schools

:13:56. > :13:59.than the poorest. But many remain sceptical. We have looked at the

:14:00. > :14:03.outcome of all of those living in selected areas and factored in the

:14:04. > :14:07.losers as well as winners. Where you have an area with a concentration of

:14:08. > :14:11.grammar schools, the children who don't get into those schools suffer

:14:12. > :14:15.a GCSE penalty by comparison with similar children who live in a

:14:16. > :14:18.comprehensive area. What we see from this new ordinary working families

:14:19. > :14:22.group is that while they may have their access to grammar schools,

:14:23. > :14:26.actually, the majority of them would expect not to get a place in a

:14:27. > :14:29.grammar school. That means that they would not be benefiting. They would

:14:30. > :14:34.be in the group that are missing out. Ms Greening today hinted at

:14:35. > :14:37.measures to address the fact that grammars do take disproportionate

:14:38. > :14:41.numbers of wealthier children. But the politics get a little muddy

:14:42. > :14:47.here. Some of her supporters don't want her to push too hard there. I

:14:48. > :14:51.certainly don't think quotas are a good idea and I would be concerned

:14:52. > :14:55.to see a dramatic reduction in the pass mark. I think we should be put

:14:56. > :14:59.back -- pragmatic about how we do this, but it would be reasonable to

:15:00. > :15:03.say to existing grammar schools and to new ones, let's try our hardest

:15:04. > :15:09.to make this system is fair as it can be. We want to make sure that

:15:10. > :15:13.opportunities are open to everybody who can benefit from them. There is

:15:14. > :15:20.another reason to focus on the Jams, though, or the OWFs, - politics. In

:15:21. > :15:24.focus groups all the time, people talk and define themselves as the

:15:25. > :15:28.people stuck in the middle who are too well off to get the support that

:15:29. > :15:32.poor people get and not well enough to manage without it. They feel

:15:33. > :15:35.neglected by politicians. It is certainly helpful for this Prime

:15:36. > :15:40.Minister to pitch to people in the middle. There may be a more coherent

:15:41. > :15:56.group at the ballot box and they are in the classroom. Chris Cook, there.

:15:57. > :15:58.Phillip Blond is director of the ResPublica think tank,

:15:59. > :15:59.and one of the brains behind the Conservative's

:16:00. > :16:03.Polly Billington was special advisor to Ed Miliband,

:16:04. > :16:05.who as Labour leader promised to stand up for the

:16:06. > :16:12.Jams, and Alfs we are using them interchangeably, we prefer Jams

:16:13. > :16:16.because they make better graphics, but there was a shift? As I

:16:17. > :16:20.understand that there was a shift when the mandarins, now not popular

:16:21. > :16:24.with Theresa May, looked at what just about managing looked like,

:16:25. > :16:31.firstly there was not enough of them and secondly they looked too poor to

:16:32. > :16:35.switch to voting Tory anyway. Out is a slightly broader... A broader

:16:36. > :16:42.term, includes more people and does go further up the income scale. Big

:16:43. > :16:46.question, is it useful to focus on this group because we are talking

:16:47. > :16:51.about one third of families. I think it is worth asking who has politics

:16:52. > :16:54.been about since the times of Mrs Thatcher? I would argue

:16:55. > :17:00.predominantly for the most part it has only been about the top 10% and

:17:01. > :17:04.the bottom 10%. And arguably all policy and politics has really been

:17:05. > :17:10.in the interests of the top 10% and the concern for the bottom 10% is

:17:11. > :17:15.done so to justify that settlement. So I think the concern with

:17:16. > :17:19.something else is more than welcome and is desperately and urgently

:17:20. > :17:26.needed because if unless you can eat actually speak to those who haven't

:17:27. > :17:31.spoken to before, things like Brexit, Trump, going beyond button

:17:32. > :17:35.or become explainable. What is clear is that we have significant groups

:17:36. > :17:39.in this country who feel something and fair is being done to them, who

:17:40. > :17:45.feel they are being ignored so it is not wrong to try to centre policy

:17:46. > :17:50.around them, and I think in part, you know, this is to be welcomed. Is

:17:51. > :17:59.that what your former boss tried to do, Polly? What I think you have a

:18:00. > :18:03.problem with here, is you will come unstuck of your politics and policy

:18:04. > :18:07.are not aligned. So pretty much everyone will think of themselves as

:18:08. > :18:11.being part of the squeezed middle, that is part of their campaigning

:18:12. > :18:14.allure, the same with the just about managing. People think they are

:18:15. > :18:18.ordinary then they are extraordinary, they think they are

:18:19. > :18:22.ordinary working people are not working, they think they are a

:18:23. > :18:27.family when they are not family. So you can include everybody. If your

:18:28. > :18:31.policy only affects a small number of people, and everyone else will

:18:32. > :18:36.think, wait a minute, I thought this was for the many, not the few, and I

:18:37. > :18:39.am not entitled to it. That is where things get unstuck. What you have

:18:40. > :18:44.you with this grammar school policy which in principle I would be

:18:45. > :18:48.against anyway, you have one where only one third of places are

:18:49. > :18:52.available for this 50% core of people. How can that be seen as a

:18:53. > :18:59.progressive their policy when two thirds of the places will be kept

:19:00. > :19:06.for the 50% that are the richest? But the basic question is, why would

:19:07. > :19:10.you focus on the people who are between half and 20% rather than the

:19:11. > :19:16.bottom 20%. What is the effective argument that says, I should be more

:19:17. > :19:22.worried about the person who is 60th in the list of poor people rather

:19:23. > :19:26.than the person who is... You can deploy a range of arguments to make

:19:27. > :19:32.this point. I repeat, these other people who have been ignored over

:19:33. > :19:37.the past goodness knows how long. I thought Ed Miliband, who's made some

:19:38. > :19:41.great contributions to Conservative thinking, really hit it right with

:19:42. > :19:48.the squeeze medal. But where Labour went wrong was that they came with a

:19:49. > :19:54.small-bore offer, only speaking to those on limited incomes, or those

:19:55. > :19:57.on benefits, let's go mad, look at the now famous elephant graph which

:19:58. > :20:05.shows basically over the last 30 years that globalisation has not

:20:06. > :20:09.benefited middle or working-class people only super rich people and

:20:10. > :20:13.the poor in the third World. So he makes the argument quite

:20:14. > :20:18.convincingly that these people haven't experienced any real

:20:19. > :20:23.increase in incomes for long time. That's why it makes sense to speak

:20:24. > :20:27.to them. Not only that but if you look at modern Britain today it is

:20:28. > :20:33.like a ladder where the runs on the ladder of further and further apart.

:20:34. > :20:36.And unless you are at the very top, you are experiencing relative

:20:37. > :20:40.decline or relative stagnation almost anywhere on that ladder so

:20:41. > :20:46.people feel, wherever they are, the middle is by definition... People

:20:47. > :20:52.are feeling penalised so I think it is good politics and if the

:20:53. > :20:56.Conservatives come up with a... Which I would encourage them to do

:20:57. > :21:00.so they don't sacrifice policy... I don't think this is that and that is

:21:01. > :21:02.part of the problem. If you talk about something everyone identifies

:21:03. > :21:09.with India to offer doesn't meet that, you won't get anything out of

:21:10. > :21:12.it. The only way you can persuade everyone else to consider giving

:21:13. > :21:18.money to a certain group of people is that it is somewhere in the

:21:19. > :21:21.national interest. I want an example apart from grammar schools, what's

:21:22. > :21:25.an example of something you would do we would say, this is not about

:21:26. > :21:30.people in the top half and not about people in the bottom, it's about the

:21:31. > :21:34.people in between. Just one example of policy. Massively expanded

:21:35. > :21:40.maternity and career rights for women. Women, when they leave a job,

:21:41. > :21:46.they want to look after their children, as many do, they often go

:21:47. > :21:54.back part Time low wage, no longer on a career path. Set of victory and

:21:55. > :22:01.a massively expanded career -- so if we expand massively career path that

:22:02. > :22:08.would help all women in that area. Polly, can you think of an area?

:22:09. > :22:12.Financial security more generally, Phillip makes a good point but if

:22:13. > :22:15.you think of accessing work that is more secure, because work is

:22:16. > :22:20.becoming more flexible that means people spend more time feeling a bit

:22:21. > :22:25.on the edge, and making sure that people have something they could

:22:26. > :22:29.fall back on, not for ever but while they are flexing between jobs, the

:22:30. > :22:33.fact that more people are experiencing that flexibility, not

:22:34. > :22:39.just hipsters on their laptop but the people on the street corner

:22:40. > :22:46.waiting... We have no through life education option for people. We

:22:47. > :22:51.educate ourselves intensely at 221 and then nothing. What we have to

:22:52. > :22:57.develop, and this will be another Jams policy is a 2- life education

:22:58. > :23:05.officer so anyone can retrain at any point in their lives. With robotics

:23:06. > :23:09.and AI, everyone will suffer. Lots to say about the Jams and the Alfs.

:23:10. > :23:19.It's going to be hugely important weekend in Turkey, a referendum on

:23:20. > :23:20.the weekend could transform the country from a slightly

:23:21. > :23:25.dysfunctional parliamentary democracy to a full on presidential

:23:26. > :23:30.system. The man who stands to reign supreme is President Erdogan, very

:23:31. > :23:32.much to the concern of civil libertarians and liberal

:23:33. > :23:36.secularists. He has dominated Turkish politics for 14 years, an

:23:37. > :23:43.authoritarian rationalist seeking the backing of the nation to

:23:44. > :23:47.potentially put more emphasis on the authoritarian. Practically, there

:23:48. > :23:51.will be no Prime Minister, he will be the leader of his party and the

:23:52. > :23:56.president so there will be no one who can limit his powers. In the

:23:57. > :24:02.dying days of the Ottoman empire through the new Republic of, or

:24:03. > :24:04.Ataturk or the later years, the Turkish people have repeatedly found

:24:05. > :24:11.themselves with strong leaders, or that aspire to be, President Erdogan

:24:12. > :24:15.fits that bill. It does not like opposition and has cracked down on

:24:16. > :24:20.the press. This former editor of an opposition newspaper is now exiled

:24:21. > :24:29.in Berlin. Politically he is the kind of leader, like Putin or Trump,

:24:30. > :24:35.who hates criticism, and takes every kind of criticism as an insult to

:24:36. > :24:40.himself. Last summer's attempted coup briefly raised the prospect of

:24:41. > :24:43.turmoil in Turkey, a violent Kurdish insurgency and attacks by the

:24:44. > :24:48.Islamic State group have all been used to justify a state of emergency

:24:49. > :24:49.so would a newly empowered president be better equipped to face these

:24:50. > :24:55.challenges? And would it bolster Turkey's

:24:56. > :24:57.power in the Middle East? If Turkey is able to play

:24:58. > :25:00.a stronger, assertive role in those countries in the multiple conflicts

:25:01. > :25:02.engulfing the region, then that is a good thing

:25:03. > :25:04.for the region. But only if a stronger Erdogan

:25:05. > :25:07.means a more stable, I spoke earlier to Ilnur Cevik,

:25:08. > :25:18.chief adviser to President Erdogan. Started by asking him if we should

:25:19. > :25:20.be worried the proposed constitutional changes will give

:25:21. > :25:23.President Erdogan much power. Not really, because actually

:25:24. > :25:25.what he is doing is, the president at the moment

:25:26. > :25:39.has dictatorial powers. He has the powers of a junta leader

:25:40. > :25:44.because the presidential powers were given, designed for a junta

:25:45. > :25:51.leader after the 1980 coup. But let's just be clear,

:25:52. > :25:53.does President Erdogan, after the referendum,

:25:54. > :25:55.if he gets his way, he will have power to appoint

:25:56. > :25:57.half the senior judges, his own vice presidents,

:25:58. > :26:00.he will be able to make law? He can only appoint only four

:26:01. > :26:06.of the judges and seven judges are being appointed

:26:07. > :26:08.by the Parliament. By the Parliament,

:26:09. > :26:10.of the senior judges, yes, He can hire and fire civil servants

:26:11. > :26:17.and of course he can make The reason why constitutional

:26:18. > :26:22.experts are worried about it is precisely because it

:26:23. > :26:27.gives them so much power. The presidential executive orders

:26:28. > :26:35.can be overruled by the Parliament. If there is any law that clashes

:26:36. > :26:40.with the executive orders, then, the law overrides

:26:41. > :26:43.the executive order. Why do you think so many

:26:44. > :26:48.constitutional experts and others are worried as hell

:26:49. > :26:51.about what Turkey looks like it's Truly, it's hard to understand

:26:52. > :26:56.why, because we wanted To bring a new system, scrap

:26:57. > :27:06.the military drafted constitution, But we didn't have the

:27:07. > :27:12.majority to do that, so all we could do is suffice

:27:13. > :27:18.with the changes that will just bring a clear-cut distinction

:27:19. > :27:23.between separation of power and allow the president to run

:27:24. > :27:27.the country while the legislative And was the president wrong

:27:28. > :27:37.when he said on February 12th that the referendum would be

:27:38. > :27:40.an answer to the coup and that those who vote No,

:27:41. > :27:43.vote against him in the referendum, will be siding with the coup

:27:44. > :27:46.and siding with terrorists, as some of the AKP party leaders

:27:47. > :27:49.have been saying? The coup was a stark reminder

:27:50. > :27:58.of what is in store for Turkey The coup was a kind of,

:27:59. > :28:05.unfortunately, referendum by the people who flocked

:28:06. > :28:07.into the streets and They braved tanks, they braved F-16

:28:08. > :28:15.fighters, and the people of Turkey And now we are saying that we're

:28:16. > :28:21.switching to a new system Would you be happy if President

:28:22. > :28:30.Erdogan saw out another full two terms under the new constitution

:28:31. > :28:32.and would thus have been Does that strike you as good

:28:33. > :28:38.governance, good leadership Well, if the people vote for it,

:28:39. > :28:45.if they are satisfied with the way he runs

:28:46. > :28:48.the country, why not? They may get fed up with him

:28:49. > :28:51.in the next two years, nobody knows. And if Erdogan shows bad leadership,

:28:52. > :29:10.let's put it this way, if people are unhappy with the way he's

:29:11. > :29:12.running the country, the Parliament can easily take

:29:13. > :29:14.the country to early elections. The EU does not seem very

:29:15. > :29:16.enthusiastic about these constitutional changes,

:29:17. > :29:18.to say the least. Does it bother

:29:19. > :29:25.you that the EU and your prospect of EU membership is receding

:29:26. > :29:27.further into the distant, Not really, because we're not sure

:29:28. > :29:31.where the EU is going anyway. We are trying to get

:29:32. > :29:33.into the EU, while you guys The irony is, we have been pushing

:29:34. > :29:43.and pushing and pushing and they haven't accepted us

:29:44. > :29:46.for the past 54 years. We've been at the doorstep,

:29:47. > :29:48.being treated like beggars. And our people are very,

:29:49. > :29:54.very unhappy about that and we see our friends back

:29:55. > :29:59.in Britain with Brexit coming out of the EU, and we are saying,

:30:00. > :30:03.is it really worth all the effort? But we will see after

:30:04. > :30:10.the referendum, the president will sit down with the EU leaders,

:30:11. > :30:14.and I think we will really ask for an account of what has

:30:15. > :30:16.happened until now. Ilnur Cevik, very nice to talk

:30:17. > :30:21.to you, thank you very much. A pause for thought now,

:30:22. > :30:23.because it's time for Viewsnight. Tonight, heart surgeon

:30:24. > :30:26.Stephen Westaby wonders whether we are unwittingly

:30:27. > :30:30.pushing his profession into a culture that

:30:31. > :30:33.runs away from risk. Politics is destroying

:30:34. > :30:39.British heart surgery. British heart surgery used to be

:30:40. > :30:50.the best in the world. We were at the centre

:30:51. > :30:55.of research and innovation. Over the past 35 years,

:30:56. > :30:57.I've performed almost 12,000 But now heart surgery has been

:30:58. > :31:07.suffocated by a culture of blame. British heart surgeons

:31:08. > :31:14.are becoming a rare breed. After the Bristol children's

:31:15. > :31:16.heart inquiry and the hospitals scandal, NHS

:31:17. > :31:27.England decided to publish surgeons' death rates

:31:28. > :31:28.under the banner of Mortality rates were published

:31:29. > :31:32.hastily, newspapers named The implication was that surgeons

:31:33. > :31:39.have responsibility for every death. Most deaths actually occur

:31:40. > :31:41.when a common post-operative This happens most at nights

:31:42. > :31:44.and weekends in the presence Surely the best surgeon should

:31:45. > :31:55.have the highest death rates Now we have an elephant

:31:56. > :31:59.in the consulting room. Surgeons are becoming risk

:32:00. > :32:01.averse and the sickest Prospective surgeons are now

:32:02. > :32:04.discouraged from entering such In 2000, 70% of heart

:32:05. > :32:07.surgery trainees came So the NHS now relies

:32:08. > :32:12.on heart surgeons who have He has recently written his memoir -

:32:13. > :32:50.Fragile Lives - about his work Now, this next story

:32:51. > :32:55.should probably have been the lead on this programme,

:32:56. > :32:59.but it is just possible that it is a lot of hype

:33:00. > :33:04.and one to be ignored. The news is that Nasa has made

:33:05. > :33:06.a pretty dramatic statement about the possibility of life

:33:07. > :33:08.existing inside one Nasa tells us that its Cassini

:33:09. > :33:12.spacecraft has flown within 120 kilometres of the moon Enceladus,

:33:13. > :33:18.where they use metric measurements, and they have found hydrogen

:33:19. > :33:21.molecules, which was the last piece of evidence they were looking

:33:22. > :33:24.for that microbial life may exist. In a moment, we'll discuss

:33:25. > :33:26.whether humans should be looking for alien life at all -

:33:27. > :33:32.but first, we are joined from Washington by Dr

:33:33. > :33:43.Mary Voytek, the head How big a moment is this? This is an

:33:44. > :33:47.incredible moment. We have been waiting for evidence just like this

:33:48. > :33:53.since we first discovered that there were oche world outside of our own

:33:54. > :33:58.Earth -- ocean worlds. The mantra of Nasa has been, follow the water. If

:33:59. > :34:01.we find lots of water in these oceans, we find evidence of the

:34:02. > :34:06.building blocks of life and now we have found a source of energy. What

:34:07. > :34:14.is the terrain we are talking about and how similar is it to anything

:34:15. > :34:16.you might find on this planet? The hydrogen is being produced because

:34:17. > :34:25.the core of Enceladus is very porous. So ocean water can move

:34:26. > :34:30.through it, get heated by energy from the core, interact with the

:34:31. > :34:38.rocks and then vent in some fashion into the overlying ocean water. A

:34:39. > :34:41.good example of this is what we find in our deep oceans, known as

:34:42. > :34:47.hydrothermal vents. We are not sure that we have these tall structures,

:34:48. > :34:51.but it's the same kind of chemistry. As you may know, when we discovered

:34:52. > :34:57.these 40 years ago, we found them because they were surrounded by

:34:58. > :35:01.incredibly complex and beautiful ecosystems, giant worms, shrimp,

:35:02. > :35:07.fish, basically supported by energy coming out of these fluids from

:35:08. > :35:12.beneath the surface. I am not going to ask you to put a percentage

:35:13. > :35:18.chance on it, but when we say life is possible, does that mean we can't

:35:19. > :35:25.rule it out, or does it mean we are talking 50-50? Give us a sense of

:35:26. > :35:30.how likely it would be. Well, this is the first step in knowing that

:35:31. > :35:38.this environment could support life. Whether or not life emerged, it is

:35:39. > :35:42.probably likely that it has emerged somewhere. I am not sure if it is on

:35:43. > :35:46.this particular moon or if this moon has had enough time. On our own

:35:47. > :35:50.planet, recent results suggest that life emerged maybe within 400

:35:51. > :35:56.million years of the formation of our planet. We think that this moon

:35:57. > :36:00.might be as young as 100 million years, we are not sure of its age.

:36:01. > :36:04.So we have all the ingredients, we are just not sure if there has been

:36:05. > :36:08.enough time for life to have emerged and started to take advantage of

:36:09. > :36:15.this food source. Where would this life come from? This hasn't come

:36:16. > :36:19.from a meteorite flying around the solar system and planting life, this

:36:20. > :36:24.is life evolving out of the chemistry of the soup it sits in?

:36:25. > :36:30.Absolutely. The idea of panspermia is something we talk about, which is

:36:31. > :36:36.sharing a Genesis on one body by ceding the second one. That is

:36:37. > :36:41.something that could happen between the Earth and Mars where there has

:36:42. > :36:46.been a significant amount of material exchanged. This is very far

:36:47. > :36:53.from us. Enceladus is a billion kilometres away, so the likelihood

:36:54. > :36:59.that there would be seeding from Earth out there is almost nil. So we

:37:00. > :37:01.would be talking about a second Genesis. Mary, thanks for joining

:37:02. > :37:07.us. Professor Nick Bostrom,

:37:08. > :37:09.director and founder of the Future of Humanity Institute,

:37:10. > :37:14.at Oxford University where he looks at understudied existential threats

:37:15. > :37:19.to the future of humanity. He wrote: "Where are they -

:37:20. > :37:22.why I hope the search for extraterrestrial

:37:23. > :37:36.life finds nothing". Do you really feel that you don't

:37:37. > :37:39.want us to find it? I think no news is good news as far as the search

:37:40. > :37:42.for extraterrestrial life is concerned. It would be tremendously

:37:43. > :37:48.exciting and scientifically interesting, but I think it would be

:37:49. > :37:51.a bad omen for our own future. Explain this to us, because it is

:37:52. > :37:57.quite a complicated argument. Why would it be bad to discover worms on

:37:58. > :38:01.another planet? In a nutshell, the idea is that we look out at the

:38:02. > :38:07.universe and we see a grand total of zero advanced to extraterrestrial

:38:08. > :38:12.civilisations. As far as we know, it looks empty out there. We know there

:38:13. > :38:15.are a lot of planets and moons. So there has got to be some great

:38:16. > :38:23.filter or something that takes these billions of planets and moons a hard

:38:24. > :38:27.that for life that then produces zero space colonising civilisations

:38:28. > :38:30.that we would have seen. There are two possibilities. This great filter

:38:31. > :38:34.could be behind us in our evolutionary past. Maybe it is just

:38:35. > :38:39.really hard for life to produce even the simplest organisms or to evolve

:38:40. > :38:43.more compact life. Or it could be in our future. Maybe all this

:38:44. > :38:47.sufficiently advanced civilisations destroyed themselves before they can

:38:48. > :38:55.colonise the universe. So if we do find life, it might be a sign that

:38:56. > :39:00.they are poised to destroy us? Which would be bad news. The other

:39:01. > :39:07.argument, maybe inspired by films we have seen, is that we become

:39:08. > :39:12.infected. If we find a little thing there and bring it back here, is

:39:13. > :39:18.that a plausible risk? It is a small risk, but a risk. On the one hand,

:39:19. > :39:22.we might discover a lot of useful stuff by investigating the different

:39:23. > :39:27.biochemistry. Maybe we could find new drugs or organisms that would be

:39:28. > :39:30.useful. But you can't rule out the possibility that this life would

:39:31. > :39:33.have discovered some different metabolic pathway that is more

:39:34. > :39:39.efficient than Earth's so if you brought it back, it could outcompete

:39:40. > :39:45.our microorganisms. As somebody who thinks about the future of humanity

:39:46. > :39:49.in quite a deep way, how likely is it, do you think, that we will

:39:50. > :39:53.encounter intelligent life at any point? A lot of people speculate on

:39:54. > :39:59.UFOs. Is that tiny? It is very small. Of course, a lot of

:40:00. > :40:02.cosmologists think the universe is literally infinite, in which case we

:40:03. > :40:05.can be pretty sure that there is intelligent life out there, but it

:40:06. > :40:09.might be so far away that we will never come into contact. But isn't

:40:10. > :40:13.that why we haven't encountered these intelligent species, it is

:40:14. > :40:22.because it takes too long to get around? But we know that even within

:40:23. > :40:25.a reasonable sea, and remember that the timescales are very large

:40:26. > :40:28.because the universe has been around for billions of years, so that would

:40:29. > :40:33.be a long time to cover quite far. Even within the radius that we know

:40:34. > :40:36.a civilisation could have travelled, there are billions of planets and

:40:37. > :40:38.none of those has produced any space-faring civilisation so far as

:40:39. > :40:44.we can tell. Mick, thanks very much. Now, before we go, all of that data

:40:45. > :40:47.about life on Enceladus came Cassini was launched in 1997,

:40:48. > :40:50.and has been sending back astonishing information and images

:40:51. > :40:52.ever since it reached It will run out of fuel this autumn,

:40:53. > :40:59.and for its final, doomed, mission, it has been programmed to plunge

:41:00. > :41:02.through Saturn's rings and burn out as it enters

:41:03. > :41:05.the planet's atmosphere. This is what Nasa thinks

:41:06. > :42:01.the mission will look like. Some of us may end up being a little

:42:02. > :42:05.disappointed with the weather on Good Friday. It is looking pretty

:42:06. > :42:08.overcast and there is some rain on the way, but most of it should be

:42:09. > :42:10.light and it will not last all