:00:00. > :00:10.So, with Labour setting out their approach today,
:00:11. > :00:13.do we finally have clarity on the difference between the two
:00:14. > :00:26.Not on hypothetical trade deals with other countries,
:00:27. > :00:28.but on strong trading arrangements with the EU.
:00:29. > :00:31.What we've seen today from Labour is, I think,
:00:32. > :00:37.It's yet another nonsensical Jeremy Corbyn plan.
:00:38. > :00:40.It all seems to come down to the customs union.
:00:41. > :00:44.But it won't say so quite that clearly.
:00:45. > :00:52.And could Labour's "fortress Wales" turn blue?
:00:53. > :00:57.What's her name, Theresa May, don't mind her.
:00:58. > :01:09.Oh, I don't like him, don't like him, no.
:01:10. > :01:12.Also tonight, is Ivanka Trump the most powerful woman here?
:01:13. > :01:15.We ask the Vanity Fair correspondent who has followed her career.
:01:16. > :01:19.Absolutely, from my reporting, people who are close to Donald Trump
:01:20. > :01:22.say there's only one person in the White House who is not
:01:23. > :01:36.# Happy birthday, dear President #
:01:37. > :01:38.Is South Africa's governing party on the brink of
:01:39. > :01:41.Well, there are certainly thousands of people out
:01:42. > :01:44.on the streets of Pretoria calling on President Zuma to stand down
:01:45. > :01:47.but the question is whether people power alone is enough,
:01:48. > :01:50.There are processes within the African National Congress
:01:51. > :02:01.that will decide whether or not President Zuma's days in power...
:02:02. > :02:09.# And so say all of us #
:02:10. > :02:13.Hello, Labour have long been critical of Theresa May's plans
:02:14. > :02:16.for Brexit, but they've not quite spelled out an alternative.
:02:17. > :02:21.The shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer gave a speech saying
:02:22. > :02:24.what his pitch to our EU counterparts would be.
:02:25. > :02:36.Two, there would be a unilateral clarification of the rights
:02:37. > :02:42.Three, under Labour, Britain would aim to remain in a number
:02:43. > :02:44.Erasmus, Euratom, the European Medicines
:02:45. > :02:57.to remain in the single market and the customs union.
:02:58. > :02:59.Labour's white paper will have a strong emphasis
:03:00. > :03:02.on retaining the benefits of the single market and customs
:03:03. > :03:07.union, vital as they are to protecting our economy.
:03:08. > :03:11.Our paper will make crystal clear that jobs and the economy
:03:12. > :03:28.Now does what he said really add up to a different approach to Mrs May?
:03:29. > :03:30.On the single market, barely, as Labour concedes
:03:31. > :03:33.So single market membership is unlikely to be on offer.
:03:34. > :03:36.But staying in the customs union is a possibility.
:03:37. > :03:38.It's one that might solve a pending problem of congestion
:03:39. > :03:40.at the port of Dover, and reduce pressure
:03:41. > :03:43.for a border between the north and south in Ireland.
:03:44. > :03:46.Or is there still an element of fudge?
:03:47. > :03:49.We'll ask the shadow Brexit minister shortly.
:03:50. > :03:51.But first, some political background.
:03:52. > :03:54.Labour's problem is that its supporters are divided on the EU.
:03:55. > :03:57.Chris Cook's being looking at new data from the
:03:58. > :04:00.British Election Study, a huge reliable survey
:04:01. > :04:08.He's found hints of what Brexit means for votes.
:04:09. > :04:13.Labour's problem with losing supporters who backed Brexit has
:04:14. > :04:19.But there's a few important bits of arithmetic worth bearing in mind.
:04:20. > :04:22.Let's start, as most of these discussions do,
:04:23. > :04:30.It is true that across the North most people voted Leave.
:04:31. > :04:37.It is also true that this is a place where Labour is the biggest party.
:04:38. > :04:40.But it doesn't follow that most Labour voters in the North
:04:41. > :04:47.In fact, for example, in the north-east, where only 42%
:04:48. > :04:52.of the public at large voted Remain, 61% of 2015 Labour voters did so.
:04:53. > :04:55.Nationally, two of every three voters who backed Labour
:04:56. > :05:03.That's not to say Labour doesn't have a problem in the North, though.
:05:04. > :05:05.Particularly with that minority of its supporters
:05:06. > :05:10.Let's look at voters who backed Ed Miliband in 2015
:05:11. > :05:19.Newly-released British Election Study data from the tail end of last
:05:20. > :05:23.year shows that only 46% of this group were still backing the party.
:05:24. > :05:27.10% planned to vote for the Tories, 11% said they were heading for Ukip.
:05:28. > :05:38.Other parties and nonvoting took the rest.
:05:39. > :05:41.That is very worrisome for Labour because more recent polling moves
:05:42. > :05:44.have shown Ukip dropping while the Tories rise.
:05:45. > :05:51.Now, here are the constituencies currently held by Labour.
:05:52. > :05:54.Of these there are 67 where the Labour lead is smaller
:05:55. > :05:59.Not all of them are plausible Tory targets, but a Tory squeeze on those
:06:00. > :06:01.Ukip voters could be gruesome for Labour.
:06:02. > :06:05.And direct transfers from Labour Brexiters
:06:06. > :06:12.to the Tories will make that much, much worse.
:06:13. > :06:15.What then of those voters who backed Ed Miliband and then voted Remain?
:06:16. > :06:18.At the end of last year, Labour was doing better with them,
:06:19. > :06:23.Remember, though, that twice as many of Labour's 2015 supporters
:06:24. > :06:28.So while Labour lost a larger share of its Leave voters,
:06:29. > :06:32.overall it has lost more Labour Remainers.
:06:33. > :06:36.So it is worth paying attention to them.
:06:37. > :06:39.Especially the 10% of Labour Remainers who last year had
:06:40. > :06:42.deserted Labour for the Liberal Democrats.
:06:43. > :06:48.The issue here isn't so much that the Lib Dems
:06:49. > :06:51.This shift would only flip Cambridge.
:06:52. > :06:53.But that movement would be very significant in other races.
:06:54. > :06:56.On its own it would be enough to move 13 Labour
:06:57. > :07:07.Jeremy Corbyn phrases a uniquely difficult challenge, holding his
:07:08. > :07:15.party together but remember even in the Brexit friendly North, losing
:07:16. > :07:17.Remainers will hurt all stop Chris Cook with some of the political
:07:18. > :07:19.angle. With me now is Paul Blomfield,
:07:20. > :07:30.shadow minister for Brexit. I'm saying I think that what we got
:07:31. > :07:36.today is clarity that you would like us to be in the customs union. Am I
:07:37. > :07:42.over interpreting your position? I don't think you are, what Keir set
:07:43. > :07:45.out was the desire for the best possible settlement and setting up a
:07:46. > :07:50.deal within the framework of the customs union is a part of that.
:07:51. > :07:54.Crucially he said he would put a good deal with the EU above
:07:55. > :08:00.hypothetical deals with the US, India and these other countries
:08:01. > :08:06.which implies he would be in for customs union membership because you
:08:07. > :08:13.would not have any tariffs. That is the logic of what he's saying. It
:08:14. > :08:16.would be because the EU accounts for about 40% of our exports. It's
:08:17. > :08:25.interesting how the Tories have focused on the United states,
:08:26. > :08:29.trumpeting that deal whereas the new administration would like to talk to
:08:30. > :08:36.the EU first. Liam Fox will tell you that even his scouting around and
:08:37. > :08:41.they are perhaps thinking about trade deals with lots of countries.
:08:42. > :08:46.You would say, forget that, it's the EU that's most important? The EU
:08:47. > :08:51.first and foremost is what is most important to our economy. Why was it
:08:52. > :08:58.not put more clearly? Why didn't Keir Starmer... Healing it with the
:08:59. > :09:01.Single Market, why didn't he say that the substantive difference
:09:02. > :09:03.between the Labour and Conservative approaches to this is that Labour
:09:04. > :09:14.would like to be in the customs union? Why didn't he say that?
:09:15. > :09:18.Always this sense of fudging it and not spelling it out. I'm sorry you
:09:19. > :09:23.say that because I think we've been clear all along. We've said,
:09:24. > :09:28.differently from the Tories, that what comes first is jobs and the
:09:29. > :09:32.economy and people's livelihoods. In the earliest stages of the debates
:09:33. > :09:35.we've had in the house we have talked about membership of the
:09:36. > :09:41.customs union. But it felt like today we got clarity, Keir Starmer
:09:42. > :09:46.gave the impression that he was giving us something new today and I
:09:47. > :09:49.think he was, wasn't he? He was, putting our message together in a
:09:50. > :09:57.way that reaches out more effectively. A lot of people haven't
:09:58. > :10:00.understood it. Little of the write-up is, Labour is for the
:10:01. > :10:06.customs union, we're going to be in it if we vote Labour and yet that is
:10:07. > :10:12.a serious deference to the Conservatives. It is, but I think we
:10:13. > :10:18.should be focusing on the outputs and not the mechanisms come in a
:10:19. > :10:21.sense, and that's what we've said: -- what we've said all along,
:10:22. > :10:25.getting the best deal for the Tories. You may say that the Tories
:10:26. > :10:29.are saying that also but we think it comes first in the negotiations. If
:10:30. > :10:34.the way to achieve that is membership of the customs union, as
:10:35. > :10:39.a prose to the cavalier way in which the Conservatives have brushed it
:10:40. > :10:49.off the table... -- as opposed to the cavalier way. You have said that
:10:50. > :10:55.free movement will end, correct? Yes, because... A tiny bit hesitant!
:10:56. > :11:00.So many of these complex issues are seen in binary terms. When we leave
:11:01. > :11:04.the European Union, our whole migration policy will have to be
:11:05. > :11:09.revisited and that means darting afresh, not only in terms of EU
:11:10. > :11:13.migration but non-EU migration as well because if we don't, the
:11:14. > :11:18.economy will crash. Do you have an immigration policy in mind with
:11:19. > :11:22.respect to EU citizens, or is that something to worry about that later
:11:23. > :11:29.on? That's something for further down the road. The Single Market,
:11:30. > :11:35.what's the point in saying you would keep the option of the Single Market
:11:36. > :11:40.open? You know that it won't be on offer if you come back from free
:11:41. > :11:43.movement, as you said today. We want the best possible relationship with
:11:44. > :11:47.the Single Market because it's so important to our economy. What
:11:48. > :11:53.distinguishes our position is that not only come as you said earlier,
:11:54. > :11:58.it is seeking a more collaborative relationship with the EU, but we
:11:59. > :12:02.aren't getting into painting ourselves into corners by taking
:12:03. > :12:08.things off the table, which is what the Tories are doing, a big mistake.
:12:09. > :12:11.Lastly, the European Court of Justice, one of Theresa May's red
:12:12. > :12:15.line, she doesn't want anything that leaves us in it, you are happy with
:12:16. > :12:23.the European Court of Justice, in certain respects ,, having a say?
:12:24. > :12:30.For instance: membership of Euratom, we would be subject to the European
:12:31. > :12:33.Court of Justice? What must be understood, and the Tories are being
:12:34. > :12:35.very dishonest with the British people, there is no international
:12:36. > :12:40.trade deal you can do with any country in the world that does not
:12:41. > :12:44.have a dispute resolution system and the nature of those systems in every
:12:45. > :12:47.treaty is that they will sit above British courts and the British
:12:48. > :12:51.Parliament. If you want no trade deals with anybody, you have
:12:52. > :12:54.sovereignty, otherwise you are going to lose and when you have
:12:55. > :12:56.international agreements. Thank you for joining us.
:12:57. > :12:59.We're not going to bang on about polls too much in this campaign.
:13:00. > :13:03.But the YouGov one putting the Tories ten points ahead
:13:04. > :13:05.of Labour in Wales - if truly reflecting public opinion -
:13:06. > :13:08.marks quite a shift in Conservative fortunes.
:13:09. > :13:10.And Theresa May was campaigning in Bridgend and Newport today,
:13:11. > :13:12.obviously believing Wales is fertile ground.
:13:13. > :13:22.David Grossman went to the Labour seat of Wrexham today, to find out.
:13:23. > :13:27.The empty shops of Hope Street in Wrexham tell their own story.
:13:28. > :13:40.It is, though, a little more than a decade ago
:13:41. > :13:42.that the Conservatives' stall was bare.
:13:43. > :13:48.And yet hope now abounds in the hearts of Welsh Conservatives.
:13:49. > :13:51.Apart from the briefest dalliance with the SDP back in 1981,
:13:52. > :13:54.Wrexham has been solidly Labour all the way back to 1935.
:13:55. > :13:55.And before that was never Conservative.
:13:56. > :13:57.The fact that it is even considered in play now
:13:58. > :14:00.for Theresa May and her party hints at a political earthquake.
:14:01. > :14:02.This would once have been unthinkable.
:14:03. > :14:04.The idea of the Conservatives defeating the Labour Party in Wales.
:14:05. > :14:07.Labour have been in some long-term decline, but what seems to be
:14:08. > :14:11.happening particularly is that Theresa May's cold, calculated,
:14:12. > :14:16.clinical decision to call an election, focused on Brexit,
:14:17. > :14:19.is having a particularly strong impact in a nation, Wales,
:14:20. > :14:24.Within hours of the seismic polling being published,
:14:25. > :14:29.Theresa May was on her way to South Wales.
:14:30. > :14:32.A photo opportunity at a galvanising plant first,
:14:33. > :14:34.insert your own Iron Lady related headline here...
:14:35. > :14:36.The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
:14:37. > :14:39.Before it was onto a rally in Bridgend to hammer
:14:40. > :14:47.Every single vote for me and the local Conservative candidate
:14:48. > :14:52.will be a vote for a stronger Wales, for a stronger United Kingdom.
:14:53. > :14:54.And as I say, will strengthen my hand in those important
:14:55. > :15:01.And in Wrexham at least there are voters who will tell
:15:02. > :15:03.you they're willing to consider voting Conservative
:15:04. > :15:09.I have been Labour, yeah, but I don't know.
:15:10. > :15:11.I don't mind what's her name, Theresa May.
:15:12. > :15:27.There's a lot of unemployment in the area, there's
:15:28. > :15:31.And I think hopefully the Conservatives could
:15:32. > :15:40.You don't feel there's an obvious choice?
:15:41. > :15:42.I do have a choice, I've always been for Labour.
:15:43. > :15:44.But now, how do you feel about Labour?
:15:45. > :15:49.Well, I'm not very happy with Jeremy Corbyn.
:15:50. > :15:52.On Friday, the Labour First Minister of Wales Carwyn Jones,
:15:53. > :15:55.whose administration was re-elected last year, was introducing
:15:56. > :16:03.Look, we never take anything for granted.
:16:04. > :16:08.We knew we had to work hard and listen to people.
:16:09. > :16:10.Hugely important now that Jeremy and his team produces a manifesto
:16:11. > :16:13.that is going to appeal to the widest number
:16:14. > :16:20.of people and presents a programme for government.
:16:21. > :16:23.That says this is what we would do if we were in government.
:16:24. > :16:26.That is what we did last year and of course it needs to be
:16:27. > :16:30.Some of the new stores that have opened in Wrexham hint
:16:31. > :16:32.at the population change this area has seen.
:16:33. > :16:36.But at this election Ukip's once strong vote in Wales
:16:37. > :16:39.They have actually done very well in Wales in recent years,
:16:40. > :16:42.almost winning the European election a couple of years ago.
:16:43. > :16:44.They now have seven elected members of the Welsh Assembly.
:16:45. > :16:47.But a lot of their support now seems to be going
:16:48. > :16:54.Where now they bowl, men once dug coal.
:16:55. > :16:57.The club and the old pithead wheel are all that survives
:16:58. > :17:05.What also remains here, though, is a sense of party loyalty.
:17:06. > :17:08.What do you think at the moment of how the Labour Party is going?
:17:09. > :17:12.Well, they're in a shambles, aren't they?
:17:13. > :17:14.Jeremy Corbyn won the leadership, I blame the top Labour
:17:15. > :17:16.politicians for not getting behind him wholeheartedly.
:17:17. > :17:23.My dad was a miner and things happened years ago against
:17:24. > :17:31.When David Miliband went, that is when I think Labour went down.
:17:32. > :17:39.It wouldn't be enough to get you to change your vote?
:17:40. > :17:43.Labour, you know, through and through.
:17:44. > :18:04.Our political editor Nick Watt joins me now.
:18:05. > :18:11.The writing of the manifesto, you have some news on that. I'm hearing
:18:12. > :18:15.the sounds of piece between the warring factions of the Labour
:18:16. > :18:19.Party. I'm told the so-called senior moderates who do not accept the
:18:20. > :18:23.leadership of Jeremy Corbyn are saying he should largely have his
:18:24. > :18:27.way on the Labour manifesto and when Labour holds a meeting to agree the
:18:28. > :18:32.manifesto on the 11th of May they're saying they will table just one red
:18:33. > :18:36.line which is the Labour Party needs to stand by its official commitment
:18:37. > :18:41.to support the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent. Beyond
:18:42. > :18:46.that they are saying there should be some strong Jeremy Corbyn language
:18:47. > :18:50.on the need for defence diversification, redeploying jobs
:18:51. > :18:55.away from the nuclear weapons industry if there are successful
:18:56. > :18:58.disarmament talks. And then they're saying in every other area, Jeremy
:18:59. > :19:04.Corbyn should be allowed to paint his vision for the UK in primary
:19:05. > :19:08.colours. These moderates would deny this, this sounds very much to me
:19:09. > :19:14.that they are jolly keen that Jeremy Corbyn should own the Labour Party
:19:15. > :19:18.results on Friday the 9th of June. What about the Conservatives?
:19:19. > :19:22.They're planning to launch the manifesto in the week beginning the
:19:23. > :19:26.8th of May the week before the Labour Party does so. Their
:19:27. > :19:32.manifesto is going to be broadbrush, a bit like that of Margaret Thatcher
:19:33. > :19:37.from 1979. But specific commitments on Brexit so Theresa May can uphold
:19:38. > :19:40.her mandate if she gets it. But interestingly it is the Labour Party
:19:41. > :19:45.that has put into its general election planning grid are rumoured
:19:46. > :19:50.Tory offensive. They believe that in the final phase of the campaign the
:19:51. > :19:54.Tories under Lynton Crosby will launch an aggressive campaign
:19:55. > :19:58.reminding the British people of Jeremy Corbyn and his support for
:19:59. > :20:01.Sinn Fein, crucially before the Northern Ireland piece process
:20:02. > :20:04.began. It is interesting that some senior Tories are expecting this to
:20:05. > :20:06.happen but others are saying why bother.
:20:07. > :20:12.We'll return to domestic politics later in the programme -
:20:13. > :20:15.but first, South Africa is starting to get fed up with
:20:16. > :20:18.Hundreds of corruption charges could be reinstated against him,
:20:19. > :20:21.the constitutional court has censured him for breaking his oath
:20:22. > :20:24.of office over lavish spending of taxpayers' money on his private
:20:25. > :20:27.home, and now another vote of no confidence is coming.
:20:28. > :20:30.He's been accused of many things, but what brought the people out
:20:31. > :20:32.on the streets was the sacking of his well-respected
:20:33. > :20:35.finance minister - a decision which pushed
:20:36. > :20:39.the country's investment grade into junk status.
:20:40. > :20:41.BBC Africa correspondent Alastair Leithead reports
:20:42. > :20:44.on whether this could be a turning point for South Africa -
:20:45. > :21:02.The African National Congress seems neither in tune
:21:03. > :21:11.Those celebrating Jacob Zuma's 75th birthday in Soweto were at least
:21:12. > :21:25.One of unwavering loyalty despite discordant times in South Africa.
:21:26. > :21:27.Thank you, Comrade President, for the dignity you have shown
:21:28. > :21:30.in the face of many, many years of being insulted for
:21:31. > :21:43.And what President Zuma stands for is what's in question.
:21:44. > :21:46.It's either the poor and unemployed masses, or himself
:21:47. > :21:54.But he's danced it all off before and he may well
:21:55. > :22:01.dance it all off again, despite what others think.
:22:02. > :22:04.A different birthday message in Pretoria as his political rivals
:22:05. > :22:09.took to the streets, unusually united in opposition.
:22:10. > :22:13.He has somehow formed a scheme to loot from the country.
:22:14. > :22:16.We are sick and tired of his corruption,
:22:17. > :22:21.I don't know about the other protesters, but we are tired of him.
:22:22. > :22:26.The path to mass protest has been paved by scandal.
:22:27. > :22:29.They are invigorated by the possible reinstatement of more than 780
:22:30. > :22:36.There is anger over lavish taxpayer funded improvements
:22:37. > :22:42.And there is frustration at what is known here as state
:22:43. > :22:44.capture, the undue political influence of the wealthy
:22:45. > :22:51.But it was the sacking of the much respected finance minister that
:22:52. > :22:58.brought these crowds out onto the streets.
:22:59. > :23:02.I think it was an act of economic and political self-destruction
:23:03. > :23:06.and it has shown that Zuma is intent on taking hold of the country,
:23:07. > :23:17.taking hold of the Treasury, and using it as his private press.
:23:18. > :23:19.Well there are certainly thousands of people out
:23:20. > :23:21.on the streets of Pretoria calling on President Zuma to stand down.
:23:22. > :23:24.But the question is whether people power alone is enough,
:23:25. > :23:27.There are processes within the African National Congress
:23:28. > :23:29.that will decide whether or not President Zuma stays in power.
:23:30. > :23:32.They appear to be closing ranks and protecting him.
:23:33. > :23:35.No more so than out in rural KwaZulu-Natal, where you don't hear
:23:36. > :23:38.complaints about the party, or any demands for its executive
:23:39. > :23:47.He's from here, built strong patronage networks here,
:23:48. > :23:52.Those who said he must step down, no.
:23:53. > :23:55.What about all the corruption scandals, the way the value
:23:56. > :23:59.of the currency has dropped since he came to government?
:24:00. > :24:15.This area is a big constituency of the ANC, a stronghold of the ANC.
:24:16. > :24:18.To us he's an innocent man, he is a champion for economic
:24:19. > :24:22.President Zuma represents the majority of the people of this
:24:23. > :24:24.country who remain in poverty, we believe he is our champion
:24:25. > :24:26.is going to be able to uplift us from property.
:24:27. > :24:28.You could argue corruption all you want.
:24:29. > :24:30.But these people know that this government
:24:31. > :24:32.has given them houses, there are roads, there is water.
:24:33. > :24:35.Something that the apartheid government did not do for them.
:24:36. > :24:38.Let's deal with the economy and take it back to the hands of the people.
:24:39. > :24:41.Let's take back the land and give it back to its rightful owners.
:24:42. > :24:48.But as it was in Zimbabwe, it is also a populist narrative,
:24:49. > :24:52.adopted by President Zuma along with blaming white racism.
:24:53. > :24:55.It is clear that some of our white compatriots regard black people
:24:56. > :25:10.The reason that Zuma is playing the race card and also talking
:25:11. > :25:12.about land reform and radical economic transformation
:25:13. > :25:19.Jonathan Shapiro is South Africa's most famous cartoonist.
:25:20. > :25:26.He recently portrayed the country about to be raped by one
:25:27. > :25:28.of the Gupta brothers, who are resented for
:25:29. > :25:32.Encouraged by Jacob Zuma and his cronies.
:25:33. > :25:35.The fact that I can sit and do this kind of thing and be this critical,
:25:36. > :25:38.even if I've got lawsuits from the president, if he can try
:25:39. > :25:41.and smear me and I can still come through that and do this,
:25:42. > :25:45.I feel much luckier than a lot of people,
:25:46. > :25:50.not only in other parts of Africa, but in other parts of the world.
:25:51. > :25:53.This cartoon shows former president Kgalema Motlanthe giving a voice
:25:54. > :25:57.from beyond the grave to one of the great anti-apartheid heroes.
:25:58. > :26:01.It's exactly what happened at Ahmed Kathrada's funeral.
:26:02. > :26:05.The great and the good were there, but not Jacob Zuma.
:26:06. > :26:08.That was the last request of the man whose letter calling
:26:09. > :26:11.on the president to resign was read out.
:26:12. > :26:13.You will choose the correct way that is gaining momentum
:26:14. > :26:20.Not everyone was cheering, but many were.
:26:21. > :26:22.This was the defining moment as the old guard
:26:23. > :26:28.The gracious thing for him to do right now is to be asked to be
:26:29. > :26:35.As anti-apartheid hero Walter Sisulu's daughter-in-law,
:26:36. > :26:37.she is one of the ANC struggle stalwarts.
:26:38. > :26:40.Is Jacob Zuma corrupt, and/or has he corrupted the country?
:26:41. > :26:52.Whether it is the authority of the government at national level,
:26:53. > :26:56.in the provinces, in local government, it has become endemic.
:26:57. > :27:03.Its senior members again backing President Zuma for the sake
:27:04. > :27:14.Jacob Zuma will be replaced as ANC leader in December
:27:15. > :27:16.and as president in 2019, unless another vote
:27:17. > :27:21.of no-confidence passage through Parliament next month.
:27:22. > :27:36.So may say all of them, but the voices of support are wavering.
:27:37. > :27:38.The ANC is losing its share of the vote.
:27:39. > :27:40.The currency and the economy are suffering.
:27:41. > :27:44.As are the very people the ANC fought apartheid to try and help.
:27:45. > :28:01.Ivanka Trump shared a platform in Berlin today with some
:28:02. > :28:08.It was an empowering women conference, and Ivanka herself
:28:09. > :28:12.She is Assistant to the President of the United States,
:28:13. > :28:17.Her husband is also a senior advisor.
:28:18. > :28:21.Inevitably, at the conference today, she had to talk about her father,
:28:22. > :28:25.who's not always seen as an empowerer of women.
:28:26. > :28:29.I've certainly heard the criticism from the media and that's been
:28:30. > :28:35.perpetuated but I know from personal experience and I think the thousands
:28:36. > :28:41.of women who have worked with and for my father for decades
:28:42. > :28:44.when he was in the private sector are testament to his belief
:28:45. > :28:49.and solid conviction in the potential of women
:28:50. > :28:54.and their ability to do the job as well as any man.
:28:55. > :28:58.I think in my personal experience, you're asking me about my role
:28:59. > :29:03.As a daughter I can also speak on a very personal level,
:29:04. > :29:13.knowing that he encouraged me and enabled me to thrive.
:29:14. > :29:16.But how significant a figure is she within the administration -
:29:17. > :29:18.and what more can we expect from her?
:29:19. > :29:20.I spoke a little earlier to Vanity Fair journalist
:29:21. > :29:23.Sarah Ellison in New York - she is one of America's best-known
:29:24. > :29:25.Ivanka-watchers and has spent the last two years
:29:26. > :29:28.I started by asking her what she thought of Ivanka's
:29:29. > :29:41.I think Ivanka is very poised, she always looks great and prevents
:29:42. > :29:44.herself in a very together way that people find impressive. She carries
:29:45. > :29:50.herself well in terms of the optics of the stage and the people she was
:29:51. > :29:55.surrounded with. Does she find it difficult to defend her father?
:29:56. > :30:01.Wherever she goes, people must say things about her dad. I think she's
:30:02. > :30:06.very effective at deflecting criticism of her father and changing
:30:07. > :30:11.the conversation. She did, as she often does, target the media, saying
:30:12. > :30:15.she had heard those criticisms about her father. She remained calm,
:30:16. > :30:20.talking about her personal experience with her father, which
:30:21. > :30:25.she does frequently, she did on the campaign trail and continues to do.
:30:26. > :30:31.She talks about how her father was good for the women that he worked
:30:32. > :30:36.with in the private sector and how politics is politics. She didn't
:30:37. > :30:41.explicitly say it but she said that politics is a difficult game and the
:30:42. > :30:44.rules are different. She has become hardened to these criticisms of her
:30:45. > :30:49.father and she has become effective at deflecting them. Tell us about
:30:50. > :30:54.her role in the White House. A lot of people would like to think of a
:30:55. > :30:58.picture of her politics being at odds with her father's. She has
:30:59. > :31:04.flirted with the Democrats in the past. Do you think she is a
:31:05. > :31:10.tempering influence on him? How is it working? Her father has also
:31:11. > :31:15.flirted with the Democrats so his politics are not as clear as some
:31:16. > :31:18.may think. In some quarters in the US people love the idea of Ivanka
:31:19. > :31:26.getting in his ear because he doesn't have a very well-defined
:31:27. > :31:30.political ideology so they think of Ivanka, who is identified with many
:31:31. > :31:34.courses that are close to the Democrats, that she can influence
:31:35. > :31:39.him. Of course no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. What we
:31:40. > :31:44.know about Ivanka is that she has been expert at speaking out on the
:31:45. > :31:49.issues that she says she cares about: women in families, women in
:31:50. > :31:55.the workplace. She has a lot to say about that. She has nothing to say
:31:56. > :31:59.on the border wall with Mexico, nothing to say on the more explosive
:32:00. > :32:06.issues that her father has brought forward. What she's doing I think is
:32:07. > :32:10.distancing herself silently in that she doesn't want to be embroiled in
:32:11. > :32:16.these debates. What you're describing, though, her role in the
:32:17. > :32:21.White House, is how we may think of the first lady, the wife of the
:32:22. > :32:24.president rather than the daughter. What is the relationship of her with
:32:25. > :32:30.Melania Trump and do you think she sees herself and Donald Trump sees
:32:31. > :32:37.her basically as serving the first Lady role? None of them would say
:32:38. > :32:40.that and in fact Ivanka has been asked that specifically and she's
:32:41. > :32:47.said there's only one first lady and that she is a daughter. She says
:32:48. > :32:51.those things. Now, in reality, Melania Trump still lives in York,
:32:52. > :32:57.we've seen reports that she will move to Washington but that hasn't
:32:58. > :33:03.happened. Ivanka is more present in Washington at events with her father
:33:04. > :33:08.than Melania has-been. The relationship is interesting, Melania
:33:09. > :33:13.is about 13 years older than Ivanka and Ivanka is about 13 years older
:33:14. > :33:18.than her half sister Tiffany so she occupies this place in the family
:33:19. > :33:22.where she is the favourite child, even her brothers admit that. In
:33:23. > :33:27.interviews they've talked about that. She's laughed it off. From my
:33:28. > :33:31.reporting, people close to Donald Trump say that there's only one
:33:32. > :33:35.person in the White House who isn't expandable and its Ivanka Trump.
:33:36. > :33:41.She's been with him all of her professional life so this is a very
:33:42. > :33:46.natural relationship, they work together well, he trusts her. He
:33:47. > :33:50.doesn't trust people easily. The challenge is for her to translate
:33:51. > :33:52.that relationship to the international audience and national
:33:53. > :33:54.audience in a way that makes sense to the rest of us. Thank you for
:33:55. > :34:00.joining us. You too, thank you. Time for Viewsnight now -
:34:01. > :34:03.and in the run up to the election we are going to do things
:34:04. > :34:05.a little differently. We want to stir the policy pot
:34:06. > :34:08.a little during the campaign, so the Views in Viewsnight will be
:34:09. > :34:11.in the form of specific ideas for the political
:34:12. > :34:13.parties to take or leave. First up is David Cameron's
:34:14. > :34:18.former policy chief Only last year, she was
:34:19. > :36:05.working in Downing Street. And she has clearly come to the view
:36:06. > :36:09.that something needs to be done - even if it is not very instinctively
:36:10. > :36:18.Conservative. I'm joined to discuss
:36:19. > :36:21.this by Lord Warner, former Labour health minister
:36:22. > :36:24.and now an independent peer, and Niall Dickson -
:36:25. > :36:30.the chief executive of the NHS Do you like the enteric since tax
:36:31. > :36:33.idea? It's not a bad idea, getting money after death for care, but it
:36:34. > :36:39.isn't delivering the bacon in terms of funding for social care. 500,000
:36:40. > :36:44.deaths per year and under 5% of them will pay inheritance tax so
:36:45. > :36:48.something dramatic would have to be done, way beyond what Camilla is
:36:49. > :36:57.talking about. 2 billion has been cut, I think. We need 2.5, 3 billion
:36:58. > :37:01.up to 2020, to plug the gap that's been created. If you look at what
:37:02. > :37:09.goes on, the demography up until 2035, you need 2.5% new money each
:37:10. > :37:14.year, all the way for 15 years. Inheritance tax, a death tax, good
:37:15. > :37:19.idea? We need something to bring the money in and I almost think that
:37:20. > :37:23.Camilla underestimated what we are facing. At the moment we are talking
:37:24. > :37:29.about one in eight elderly people in England not getting the services
:37:30. > :37:32.that they need. These individuals are suffering. We have a health care
:37:33. > :37:38.system that is under enormous pressure. There has to be something
:37:39. > :37:41.done in terms of, as Norman says, the immediate but the longer term
:37:42. > :37:48.issue is that we will see a doubling of the over 85s. Politicians must
:37:49. > :37:52.face up to this, it is a moment to reflect on something serious that
:37:53. > :37:59.must be dealt with. But you talk to them, as chief lobbyist for the NHS.
:38:00. > :38:03.Are they taking it seriously? The next two weeks is the best chance
:38:04. > :38:10.we've got, Wendy two parties are going to be writing their
:38:11. > :38:17.manifestos. -- when the two parties. Will there be something in it? We
:38:18. > :38:20.will wait and see. Fed to say that the Prime Minister has nailed her
:38:21. > :38:25.colours to the mast by saying she will deal with social care, a
:38:26. > :38:29.promise that has been made by previous administrations but I'm
:38:30. > :38:32.told she is deadly serious. It is going to cost money now, and the
:38:33. > :38:38.government put more money in the budget and it will cost a lot more
:38:39. > :38:41.going forward. Some can be raised with taxation from individuals but
:38:42. > :38:46.over a period of time we should be linking it to the GDP level, we
:38:47. > :38:51.should be putting health and care together because care tends to lag
:38:52. > :38:56.behind health. Health suffers because care is not properly funded.
:38:57. > :39:06.Do you like the idea of a hype of the K to tax, a tax that will go to
:39:07. > :39:09.social care? We look at this on the select committee on NHS
:39:10. > :39:14.sustainability. It's clear that people don't trust politicians any
:39:15. > :39:19.more in terms of taxation so I think you're going to have to look at a
:39:20. > :39:22.stream of revenue for social care, at the least, which is clearly
:39:23. > :39:26.defined and that's what they've done in Japan and Germany. They haven't
:39:27. > :39:33.ditched general taxation but they have top it up by having effectively
:39:34. > :39:37.this kind of tax for long-term care. I think we've got to start thinking
:39:38. > :39:42.in those terms if we want the stream of revenue to be adequate. What
:39:43. > :39:50.about nontax solutions? What about the of insurance that would take you
:39:51. > :39:57.to a cap in state pay? The German and Japanese systems are a real
:39:58. > :40:00.fund, is different to a tax where the government says it is for a
:40:01. > :40:05.particular thing. This is building up over time, something we haven't
:40:06. > :40:09.done. What about private savings, insurance? Could you ask me at age
:40:10. > :40:15.40 to start putting money into a savings plan? That's what the
:40:16. > :40:20.Japanese are doing. People may prefer that if they have their name
:40:21. > :40:23.on it rather than taxing someone. I don't think we should just copy the
:40:24. > :40:30.Japanese but we should learn from other countries. They started to get
:40:31. > :40:33.people... They haven't ditched general taxation, they've top it up
:40:34. > :40:39.and that's where we've got to be more creative. You can't go on using
:40:40. > :40:41.general taxation, I don't think, because you must raise it to
:40:42. > :40:43.unacceptable levels. Thank you for joining us.
:40:44. > :40:47.That's all we have time for - I'll be back in this seat tomorrow.
:40:48. > :40:53.A lot going on in the election campaign, Boris Johnson giving a
:40:54. > :40:54.speech on foreign policy in the evening.