:00:00. > :00:09.President Trump takes off on his first foreign tour,
:00:10. > :00:11.but there's no chance of leaving his troubles, and his
:00:12. > :00:26.If there is evidence is mounting that there might have been efforts
:00:27. > :00:28.to obstruct justice that would be a parallel back to Nixon and wouldn't
:00:29. > :00:31.look good for the president. Tonight, as fresh revelations
:00:32. > :00:33.about Russia and the man he sacked as FBI boss -
:00:34. > :00:35.who he apparently told the Russians was a "nutjob" -
:00:36. > :00:38.engulf the Trump White House, we ask whether he can
:00:39. > :00:41.keep his presidency on the road. Jeremy Corybn's right hand man today
:00:42. > :00:43.made the bold claim that Labour We ask the Shadow Defence Secretary
:00:44. > :00:47.what that would mean The little boy who witnessed
:00:48. > :00:52.the horrific murder of his mother Rachel Nickell 25 years ago
:00:53. > :00:56.tells his story of the trauma he suffered, and the impact
:00:57. > :01:08.of relentless press intrusion. All of a sudden we saw this man
:01:09. > :01:13.lunging forward with a black bag over his shoulder, and then
:01:14. > :01:16.everything happened. In a matter of seconds I was grabbed, thrown to the
:01:17. > :01:19.floor, my face dragged across the mud. Seconds later my mother
:01:20. > :01:22.collapsed next to me. And Newsnight's own battle bus
:01:23. > :01:24.ventures to the parts of the country You don't get much of a buzz around
:01:25. > :01:37.here. That's why we are here! This evening, Donald Trump left
:01:38. > :01:39.Washington for this first Eight days away, visiting five
:01:40. > :01:43.countries, including Often an outing on the global stage
:01:44. > :01:49.is an opportunity to draw the heat from domestic travails,
:01:50. > :01:52.but in Trump's case there's no chance of a let-up back at base,
:01:53. > :01:55.in a week where it has felt that perhaps the tectonic plates shifted
:01:56. > :01:57.definitively in the ever-developing scandal over Trump's dealings
:01:58. > :02:00.with the Russians, and his Tonight, two separate stories
:02:01. > :02:09.which threaten fresh Our diplomatic editor
:02:10. > :02:22.Mark Urban is here. No sooner has the President's
:02:23. > :02:25.playing taken off than two new bombshells were dropped by the
:02:26. > :02:30.Washington Post and the New York Times. The Washington post saying
:02:31. > :02:34.that the FBI investigation into possible collusion with Russia in
:02:35. > :02:37.the election period was gathering pace and had a new person of
:02:38. > :02:44.interest who was a serving member of the White House staff. People are
:02:45. > :02:49.speculating on Twitter, some of them quite informed reporters, that that
:02:50. > :02:54.is none other than Jared Kushner the son-in-law of the president. We
:02:55. > :03:02.don't know that but that is the speculation. The New York Times
:03:03. > :03:07.story saying they have a minute, a written record, of that meeting with
:03:08. > :03:14.the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in which President Trump is
:03:15. > :03:18.quoted as saying that Comey the director of the FBI was a "nut job",
:03:19. > :03:23.that he was putting him under pressure over Russia and now that is
:03:24. > :03:27.taken care of. That does feed those who say this is obstruction of
:03:28. > :03:30.justice in the case they are trying to make. You wonder if Trump knows
:03:31. > :03:43.that minutes have been taken. You could say there is a buy the
:03:44. > :03:47.book answer and people understand the processes involved if this is
:03:48. > :03:52.going to come to a formal, legal charge, if it's going to get
:03:53. > :03:55.impeachment. With impeachment the house of representatives have to
:03:56. > :04:00.vote for it and a lot of the calculation has been, until the
:04:01. > :04:04.mid-term elections in late 2018, that's not even a possibility
:04:05. > :04:08.because the Republicans control the house of representatives. Would they
:04:09. > :04:14.really vote for impeachment. But the pace of the these last two weeks is
:04:15. > :04:18.causing some people to reassess, and ask if real, hard evidence is
:04:19. > :04:23.produced by the FBI, or the other investigations on the Hill will
:04:24. > :04:27.support crumble, and will this become more and more like that
:04:28. > :04:34.defining presidential scandal, Watergate.
:04:35. > :04:42.All the President's men made bringing down Richard Nixon seem
:04:43. > :04:47.like the most romantic of adventures. Particularly if you're a
:04:48. > :04:52.journalist. Now, many in Washington see the parallels, talk breathlessly
:04:53. > :04:59.of impeachment, as they watch Donald Trump's legal difficulties multiply.
:05:00. > :05:05.If there is evidence is mounting that there might have been efforts
:05:06. > :05:08.to obstruct justice, that would be a parallel back to Nixon and would not
:05:09. > :05:14.look good for the president. The other thing that I would look for
:05:15. > :05:19.whether the special counsel is going to bring charges. If we know there
:05:20. > :05:21.are ongoing criminal investigation is coming out of this
:05:22. > :05:27.counterintelligence investigation also going on, that's not typical.
:05:28. > :05:33.Usually you don't see a lot of prosecutions coming out of a
:05:34. > :05:37.counterintelligence investigation. Depending on who is implicated, that
:05:38. > :05:42.might spell trouble. Earlier this week it emerged the president had
:05:43. > :05:49.briefed the Russian Foreign Minister with highly sensitive intelligence.
:05:50. > :05:52.Bennett leaked that the FBI director sacked Pender memo pressuring to
:05:53. > :05:58.drop investigations and a fire adviser Mike Flynn. Then on
:05:59. > :06:05.Wednesday night the Justice Department had appointed a special
:06:06. > :06:11.counsel to investigate Trump's ties to Russia, prompting claims of a
:06:12. > :06:16.witchhunt. No president of the United States wants a special
:06:17. > :06:23.counsel appointed. In the case of President Clinton where he had an
:06:24. > :06:28.independent counsel, but led to Whitewater and Monica Lewinsky. With
:06:29. > :06:35.Ronald Reagan we had the arms for hostages situation that tarnished
:06:36. > :06:38.the end of his term. No president wants a special counsel appointed,
:06:39. > :06:43.the question is was there an underlying crime in Mr Trump's case.
:06:44. > :06:49.And so the Watergate analogies begin. The special counsel claims of
:06:50. > :06:54.obstruction of justice, and Trump's political enemies talking in
:06:55. > :06:58.impeachment. Key to the drama of Watergate was the character of Deep
:06:59. > :07:04.Throat, reputedly a deputy director at the FBI who guided reporters that
:07:05. > :07:10.underground assignations towards their quarry, the president. Well,
:07:11. > :07:13.that's one of the similarities with today's situation, although now you
:07:14. > :07:18.could say there are differences. There are so many Deep Throats and
:07:19. > :07:21.so many reporters pursuing Trump, but according to your prejudice you
:07:22. > :07:29.could say that's a sign of the resistance at work, or of a deep
:07:30. > :07:35.conservative establishment trying to thwart his programme of radical
:07:36. > :07:39.change. We've seen the deep state working round-the-clock... The
:07:40. > :07:43.President's backers paint what's happening as the revenge of a deep
:07:44. > :07:48.state against a president elected on a platform of radical change. You
:07:49. > :07:52.have instance after instance where it is not coincidence, it's fact
:07:53. > :07:56.that people are leaking classified information to try to harm the Trump
:07:57. > :07:59.administration. You can have a political agenda, just put your name
:08:00. > :08:07.in front of it and leaked it with your name attached and get arrested
:08:08. > :08:10.for its. The president, like Nixon, likes to likes to refer to a
:08:11. > :08:15.witchhunt, but how far is it now from impeachment? The Case against
:08:16. > :08:19.Trump of collusion or obstruction of justice isn't yet proven, but
:08:20. > :08:23.ultimately the judgment of his party is critical, and for that you have
:08:24. > :08:27.to look to Congress and count the votes. Evidence against him doesn't
:08:28. > :08:31.have to meet the standards to prosecute him in a court. A bit of
:08:32. > :08:36.fudge room there and it depends on the support he has. The House would
:08:37. > :08:41.have to have to vote to impeach, the Senate would have to vote to remove
:08:42. > :08:47.him, and those are really political issues and will depend on the amount
:08:48. > :08:52.of support that he has. President Nixon chose to resign before it came
:08:53. > :08:57.to an actual impeachment, but when he knew his party was slipping away.
:08:58. > :09:00.Trump may not go so easily, but all eyes will now be on the party and
:09:01. > :09:03.whether support starts to crumble. Joining us from Washington
:09:04. > :09:05.is journalist James Fallows, who started his career covering
:09:06. > :09:08.Nixon's fall in Watergate and went on to become chief speech writer
:09:09. > :09:10.to President Carter. He's now the national
:09:11. > :09:23.correspondent for The Atlantic. Good evening. First of all let's
:09:24. > :09:29.deal with the New York Times story that Trump told the Russians that
:09:30. > :09:35.Komi was, that the removal of pain me ended the pressure on him and he
:09:36. > :09:41.went on to call him a "nut job" -- the removal of Comey ended the
:09:42. > :09:45.pressure on him. The suspicion in most cases like this is you find
:09:46. > :09:49.some subtle clues of obstruction of justice and the president doing
:09:50. > :09:54.things because they're some three Domino effect that will reduce
:09:55. > :09:58.pressure on him. According to these reports, Trump is out right in
:09:59. > :10:01.saying this was the reason he got rid of FBI director Comey. In any
:10:02. > :10:06.normal political environment this would be serious trouble for a
:10:07. > :10:10.president. You say in any normal political environment, so you are
:10:11. > :10:15.not sure? Yes and the commentary you are having was right that there are
:10:16. > :10:19.legal enquiries under way but fundamentally this is a political
:10:20. > :10:23.decision. So far a major difference between this episode and Watergate,
:10:24. > :10:27.apart from the speed with which things are unfolding, is back during
:10:28. > :10:32.Watergate there were a number of members of the Republican party who
:10:33. > :10:36.said, wait a minute, what principles are being violated, what about the
:10:37. > :10:40.constitution. So far there has been some hand-wringing and concern from
:10:41. > :10:44.members of the Republican party but none of them have actually voted for
:10:45. > :10:51.investigations, etc. Let's turn to the Washington Post, that someone
:10:52. > :10:55.close to the president, speculation is that it is Jared Kushner, is now
:10:56. > :11:00.a significant person of interest in the enquiry into links between
:11:01. > :11:05.Russia and the Trump campaign. Is this just another small step king of
:11:06. > :11:09.the fire or is it important? This reminds me of the actual Watergate
:11:10. > :11:16.in that news unfolded everyday and you didn't know it would lead. There
:11:17. > :11:19.are two uncertainties, one is what person of interest means, the other
:11:20. > :11:23.is whether we are talking about Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon,
:11:24. > :11:28.somebody close to the president and still on his active-duty service. It
:11:29. > :11:32.could be a week from now we are looking at this as the domino which
:11:33. > :11:36.moved things, it could be that some other thing will have occupied our
:11:37. > :11:41.attention. It is potentially interesting. So these stories, both
:11:42. > :11:46.of them came out as soon as Trump was wheels up leaving for a foreign
:11:47. > :11:51.trip. It might suggest that the papers are engaged in some kind of
:11:52. > :11:55.warfare with the president, and it's not so much the deep state but the
:11:56. > :12:00.media generally is out to get him. What do you think about that? My
:12:01. > :12:03.guess is that if either of these publications had had the material
:12:04. > :12:07.ready to go three hours earlier, they would have used it then. You
:12:08. > :12:12.could say this is the deadline for a daily paper but it is 24 hour news
:12:13. > :12:15.cycle now. I think it's when they had the facts they went with it as
:12:16. > :12:19.soon as they could. Does that suggest that even though when he's
:12:20. > :12:26.away there may be more dripping out in the next couple of weeks? He's
:12:27. > :12:28.away now for nine days. How embarrassing will this be to him
:12:29. > :12:36.abroad, or not so? It is traditionally true that
:12:37. > :12:41.oversees presidents look stronger but it is hard to see how that can
:12:42. > :12:45.work with Donald Trump, he has not experienced internationally and he
:12:46. > :12:53.is going to tricky places, Saudi Arabia and Israel and whenever
:12:54. > :12:57.things get dicey, his impulse has been to lash out through Twitter or
:12:58. > :13:05.whatever else and maybe he is under tighter discipline when on Air Force
:13:06. > :13:10.one but there is wi-fi on that! I think that the momentum of these
:13:11. > :13:13.revelations is likely to continue while he is overseas. Thank you very
:13:14. > :13:15.much. Throughout the election,
:13:16. > :13:16.Newsnight is embedding in the Cumbrian constituency
:13:17. > :13:18.of Barrow-in-Furness, to capture in close-up
:13:19. > :13:19.how the campaign looks from the perspective
:13:20. > :13:23.of one key marginal seat. Barrow's Labour majority of 800,
:13:24. > :13:26.a Ukip vote of 11% in 2015, and a 60% vote for Brexit,
:13:27. > :13:29.all make it high on John Woodcock, whilst campaigning
:13:30. > :13:35.under a Labour ticket, is one of the party's most outspoken
:13:36. > :13:37.critics of its leader, This week, our film-maker
:13:38. > :13:42.Nick Blakemore spent time We just hear it on the doorstep,
:13:43. > :13:52.time and again, people saying: "we've always been Labour,
:13:53. > :13:55.but we're worried about you nationally,
:13:56. > :14:01.and we don't know what to do". The national election
:14:02. > :14:04.is going to be decided elsewhere, and it's going to be decided
:14:05. > :14:06.in favour of another They have called it because they
:14:07. > :14:10.know they're going to win. And, I mean, James,
:14:11. > :14:17.what is your sense of going out There's maybe an 80-90% chance that
:14:18. > :14:22.they're sticking with us, but there's that remaining 10% that
:14:23. > :14:24.either aren't sure or they are I feel it is not as high
:14:25. > :14:33.as 80 or 90%, actually. Hello, I'm Simon Fell,
:14:34. > :14:38.the Conservative candidate. You kind of, just picture
:14:39. > :14:41.Theresa May of a morning, setting off to go to Parliament
:14:42. > :14:44.on the A590, she'd never get there. She would never get
:14:45. > :14:46.there, would she? And something would be done
:14:47. > :14:48.about it, because it'd And this is what, I think,
:14:49. > :14:53.is very frustrating for everybody. It's not to you or anybody else,
:14:54. > :14:57.but we always feel that this part of the country is,
:14:58. > :15:00.just get everything palmed off, the dirty work, you know,
:15:01. > :15:03.the construction, just A Tory nodding dog
:15:04. > :15:17.won't be there for you. A Tory nodding dog won't be
:15:18. > :15:21.there for you when it matters. My record shows I've
:15:22. > :15:24.always put you first. Please re-elect me
:15:25. > :15:29.on the 8th of June. OK, one more time,
:15:30. > :15:32.and I may just nail it. Are you campaigning
:15:33. > :15:34.on the manifesto? So, any discussion of Labour's
:15:35. > :15:37.manifesto is actually slightly artificial,
:15:38. > :15:40.because it can show But when people understand,
:15:41. > :15:50.actually, that the Tories are going to win nationally,
:15:51. > :16:00.they view it in a different light. It's her policies on
:16:01. > :16:03.education I don't like. I don't like the way she is putting
:16:04. > :16:06.pressure on the kids, Justine Greening the Education
:16:07. > :16:13.Secretary, you know, she is a comprehensive girl,
:16:14. > :16:16.this is the job she's I think now we are going
:16:17. > :16:20.to see a bit of a shift We had in Cameron the heir to Blair,
:16:21. > :16:25.and we now have in Theresa May someone who is recognised as a tough
:16:26. > :16:29.leader, who will buckle down Her brand of Conservativism
:16:30. > :16:36.is really different. She wants to turn us
:16:37. > :16:38.into the workers' party, What makes you qualified
:16:39. > :16:46.to represent Barrow-in-Furness So you don't live
:16:47. > :16:54.in the constituency? I've actually put a bet
:16:55. > :17:00.with a punter, who is going to get sacked first, Corbyn
:17:01. > :17:02.or Woodcock by Corbyn? I think Nigel Farage is the most
:17:03. > :17:08.honest man I've seen Prior to that, well,
:17:09. > :17:16.Enoch Powell, arguably. He was not afraid to hold his line,
:17:17. > :17:20.even though the rest of the world We've got the Secretary of State
:17:21. > :17:35.with us to discuss issues on the rail station,
:17:36. > :17:40.but also the A590 and the A595. I've been up looking
:17:41. > :17:42.at roads all across Cumbria, both up in Copeland and down
:17:43. > :17:45.here in Barrow, and the number of things that need doing,
:17:46. > :17:48.including the A590, probably can't spend the next ten years
:17:49. > :17:51.going through a farmyard. In Barrow, there are a higher
:17:52. > :17:59.than average proportion of people on disability living allowance,
:18:00. > :18:01.so living with disabilities, and they feel that under
:18:02. > :18:04.a Conservative government they have We don't want to do anything
:18:05. > :18:10.else but support those people with disabilities
:18:11. > :18:14.who need that support. But it is reasonable that
:18:15. > :18:16.when people receive a benefit, that they should have been properly
:18:17. > :18:19.assessed as to whether they are the right people
:18:20. > :18:23.to receive that benefit. Simon, it's been almost 25
:18:24. > :18:25.years since there's been Will anybody from the Shadow
:18:26. > :18:31.Cabinet be coming to your Well, I would be
:18:32. > :18:36.delighted if they did! One thing that I know is I've had
:18:37. > :18:42.really good support from Cat Smith, who is a valiant Shadow Cabinet
:18:43. > :18:48.member for younger people. Right, first of all I'd
:18:49. > :18:56.like to thank you for attending. It's a pretty miserable
:18:57. > :19:00.night out there. To my left, far left, I have Andy
:19:01. > :19:09.from London and John Woodcock. John Woodcock, who is
:19:10. > :19:13.the Parliamentary candidate Because there are no
:19:14. > :19:22.members of Parliament, Anyway, sorry, don't
:19:23. > :19:30.let me interrupt you! This is a community coming together
:19:31. > :19:33.to show that we want And through all of the national
:19:34. > :19:37.staff, who is going to be Prime Minister, this
:19:38. > :19:41.is what politics is about. I would have been happy if this
:19:42. > :19:43.general election had been called in 2020,
:19:44. > :19:46.as was planned. But now it's here, I'm sure
:19:47. > :19:50.that we are going to make the issue of the post office central
:19:51. > :19:57.to this campaign. I was actually put in Parliament
:19:58. > :20:01.to do right by my constituents, We can't pretend to be
:20:02. > :20:07.something we're not, But what's important
:20:08. > :20:11.is that there are these Labour voices who'll stand up
:20:12. > :20:14.for their communities. There are five candidates standing
:20:15. > :20:19.for election in Barrow-in-Furness. Well, Barrow-in-Furness is a key
:20:20. > :20:29.centre for defence jobs, and we're going now to examine
:20:30. > :20:31.the Labour Party's position This week their manifesto launch
:20:32. > :20:36.boosted Labour's poll ratings to the highest so far
:20:37. > :20:39.in the campaign. But defence - and in particular
:20:40. > :20:43.their position on Trident - has been an area of real tension
:20:44. > :20:45.within the party under Nia Griffith is the Shadow Defence
:20:46. > :20:58.Secretary and she joins me now. Good evening. That is talk about
:20:59. > :21:03.this confusion over Trident. There was a line in the leaked draft
:21:04. > :21:07.manifesto, any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious about ordering
:21:08. > :21:11.the use of weapons of mass destruction, that disappeared from
:21:12. > :21:15.the official version. It is clear in the draft version and the final
:21:16. > :21:18.version that we are fully committed to having a Trident nuclear
:21:19. > :21:23.deterrent and it is not appropriate to go into detail about how and when
:21:24. > :21:28.you might use that in the manifesto. We have it, that's deterrent is
:21:29. > :21:34.there to be used. It is there to be used. It is going to be part of a
:21:35. > :21:41.strategic defence review? Is that a good idea? When we have a review
:21:42. > :21:45.coming into government, it is about how we would spend money and what we
:21:46. > :21:51.would do and in what order, what sort of timetable. It is not about
:21:52. > :21:56.questioning whether we would have a Trident nuclear deterrent because we
:21:57. > :21:58.settle that last year. Emily Thornberry tonight suggests that it
:21:59. > :22:03.was possible that it could be scrapped as part of the defence
:22:04. > :22:08.review. And indeed, Jeremy Corbyn says that it is part of the
:22:09. > :22:12.strategic defence, we know his own position and it is different from
:22:13. > :22:18.the Labour Party's. In a sense, Trident is not secure. In all
:22:19. > :22:23.respect, Emily is not the Shadow Defence Secretary, I am. We had a
:22:24. > :22:27.long meeting on Thursday to agree the manifesto as nobody raised the
:22:28. > :22:34.issue of removing Trident from the manifesto. That was agreed last year
:22:35. > :22:38.as part of our defence review that we had last year and is part of the
:22:39. > :22:42.national policy... Emily Thornberry said we're going to have a proper
:22:43. > :22:46.review and there is no point in reviewing Trident if you are
:22:47. > :22:52.absolutely committed to it? We are. Emily Thornberry is wrong. Indeed.
:22:53. > :22:56.Last year we looked at this at the national policy forum and it was
:22:57. > :23:03.decided to keep the nuclear deterrent and that was reaffirmed...
:23:04. > :23:06.Three weeks from the general election, the Shadow Defence
:23:07. > :23:13.Secretary says there is no chance will not be with us, it is a firm
:23:14. > :23:16.commitment. The Shadow foreign secretary says everything is up for
:23:17. > :23:23.grabs, it is possible it could be scrapped. We don't know your policy?
:23:24. > :23:29.I am very clear because it has been reaffirmed every year, we made a
:23:30. > :23:33.commitment in 2007 to renew the Trident deterrent and that is our
:23:34. > :23:37.position and commitment to our foreign allies and our industrial
:23:38. > :23:41.workforce and that has been reaffirmed year after year at Labour
:23:42. > :23:44.Party Conference and again on Thursday, with the manifesto
:23:45. > :23:50.meeting, it was fully affirmed by the room. This is a very serious
:23:51. > :23:57.time, not some count of opposition conversation. 18 months from the
:23:58. > :24:02.election. There is an election in three weeks, Jeremy Corbyn could be
:24:03. > :24:05.the Prime Minister, we will have a strategic review, Emily Thornberry
:24:06. > :24:11.says everything is up for grabs and it could be Trident and the Shadow
:24:12. > :24:16.Defence Secretary does not say that. You were not even at the manifesto
:24:17. > :24:20.launch. I was at the meeting last Thursday, when we were looking at
:24:21. > :24:27.the detail of this programme. It was a money not listening? Not one query
:24:28. > :24:33.was raised about Trident. On The Andrew Marr Show this month, Jeremy
:24:34. > :24:39.Corbyn was categoric, there will be no first use of nuclear weapons. It
:24:40. > :24:43.is not a deterrent? It is important to have the deterrent and that you
:24:44. > :24:50.are prepared to use it. You will do everything else before, you have a
:24:51. > :24:54.dramatic means and conventional military means, nobody in any
:24:55. > :25:00.circumstance would want to use that as your first line of attack. Nobody
:25:01. > :25:04.is suggesting somebody is going to fire a missile was fired the most
:25:05. > :25:09.incredible thought but what we are seeing is Jeremy Corbyn said there
:25:10. > :25:14.would be no first use, it might as well be a very expensive white
:25:15. > :25:18.elephant. Do you believe you have to be prepared ultimately for first use
:25:19. > :25:22.if you have nuclear weapons? You have to be prepared, that might be
:25:23. > :25:27.the circumstance you find yourself in in this very uncertain world and
:25:28. > :25:30.that is why it is essential we keep that nuclear deterrant but nobody
:25:31. > :25:35.would put that as the first item on the agenda, what we need to do is
:25:36. > :25:39.make sure that we actually get in quickly to deal with problems so
:25:40. > :25:44.they do not escalate. Let us turn to Nato. There is a manifesto
:25:45. > :25:47.commitment, the same Nato that Jeremy Corbyn called a danger to
:25:48. > :25:53.world peace and world security? We are fully committed to Nato, it is
:25:54. > :25:58.the cornerstone of our defence policy and even more important by
:25:59. > :26:01.coming out of the European Union that we reaffirm that policy and
:26:02. > :26:09.that we are committed to that 2% spending commitment. Let us say that
:26:10. > :26:14.Nato is called upon, Russia invades Estonia, for example, Britain is
:26:15. > :26:19.called upon as a member to put military equipment and personnel in
:26:20. > :26:25.to resolve that situation. Jeremy Corbyn seems to suggest that we
:26:26. > :26:30.would not necessarily in certain circumstances come to the aid of a
:26:31. > :26:35.Nato member militarily? We are fully signed up to the Nato treaty, which
:26:36. > :26:41.says we would put in that... He is wrong? Of course we all go through
:26:42. > :26:46.the other processes, also in that treaty, of diplomatic means first
:26:47. > :26:56.but ultimately, you have to back up your defence... If what we're saying
:26:57. > :26:59.is you say that if you asked militarily to support Estonia, there
:27:00. > :27:04.will be no question, Jeremy Corbyn does not say that, I will put it to
:27:05. > :27:08.you, the Tories say the Labour Party is in chaos, three weeks from the
:27:09. > :27:12.election, there is nothing graver than defence policy, we do not know
:27:13. > :27:17.if there will be first use of nuclear weapons and if Britain could
:27:18. > :27:21.come to the end -- aid of another Nato country. We are fully signed up
:27:22. > :27:25.to all of our Nato commitments and that means that if the threat was of
:27:26. > :27:29.that nature, we would put in that military force and we support the
:27:30. > :27:32.enhanced progress that is in Estonia already. Thank you.
:27:33. > :27:35.It's 25 years since a young mother, Rachell Nickell, was stabbed
:27:36. > :27:37.repeatedly and killed on Wimbledon Common in London.
:27:38. > :27:40.What made the murder even more shocking was that it was witnessed
:27:41. > :27:44.That put him in potential danger from the killer
:27:45. > :27:48.The combination of the need to protect Alex's identity
:27:49. > :27:51.and the intense, shocking media intrusion led his father, Andre,
:27:52. > :27:56.to take him to rural France and then to Spain to start a new life.
:27:57. > :27:58.Now, Alex Hanscombe has written a book which contains
:27:59. > :28:00.extraordinarily vivid detail of that day and tells the traumatic
:28:01. > :28:07.But most of all, Letting Go: A True Story of Murder,
:28:08. > :28:34.Loss and Survivial is a tribute to his mother, Rachel.
:28:35. > :28:41.Waving goodbye to my father as he drove off in his
:28:42. > :28:47.I remember walking hand-in-hand with my mother
:28:48. > :28:57.And then, as we ventured deeper into the trees, there was a section
:28:58. > :29:06.All of a sudden, we both sensed that there was something in the air
:29:07. > :29:08.so we both turned our heads to the right quickly
:29:09. > :29:12.and all of a sudden we saw this man lunging forward with a black bag
:29:13. > :29:20.In a matter of seconds, I was grabbed, thrown to the floor,
:29:21. > :29:22.my face dragged across the mud, and seconds later my mother
:29:23. > :29:28.And then I saw him disappear as I was getting myself up
:29:29. > :29:31.from the floor, still, because it all happened so quickly.
:29:32. > :29:33.And then he just disappeared into the distance,
:29:34. > :29:40.And I stood over my mother and I said, Mummy, please get up.
:29:41. > :29:44.So I was thinking, why doesn't she move?
:29:45. > :29:50.And then I said it again, Mummy, please get up.
:29:51. > :29:54.And then it hit me right at that moment.
:29:55. > :29:56.I understood, I made that connection that she was gone
:29:57. > :30:05.You feel that very physically in your heart.
:30:06. > :30:11.For me, more than anything that we may have done together,
:30:12. > :30:16.what she looked like, what she smelt like, any of these
:30:17. > :30:20.things is the feeling of being loved and of loving in return.
:30:21. > :30:23.That is something that will always be with me.
:30:24. > :30:26.And regardless of me losing her under these circumstances
:30:27. > :30:29.at such a young age, I have always felt so privileged
:30:30. > :30:33.compared to so many others, who have never had that experience
:30:34. > :30:37.of being loved and of loving in return.
:30:38. > :30:42.How did your father explain your mother's death to you?
:30:43. > :30:47.The fact that I was there, I already understood it all in my mind.
:30:48. > :30:50.There wasn't much for my father to say.
:30:51. > :30:54.But even so, when he came to collect me at the hospital,
:30:55. > :30:57.as he held me in his arms, he said, your mother is gone
:30:58. > :31:05.But we are going to continue on together.
:31:06. > :31:08.One of the most intense moments, when you went to the common,
:31:09. > :31:10.supposedly privately, with your father, and by this stage
:31:11. > :31:18.Yes, all the reporters that were on the other side of the fence
:31:19. > :31:22.So they all came jumping over the fence.
:31:23. > :31:26.My father had to cover my face with a baseball cap.
:31:27. > :31:30.We had to run off as we were jostled from both sides and the detectives
:31:31. > :31:34.tried to stop them from coming and when we reached the spot,
:31:35. > :31:40.he put me on the ground and we left the rose on the spot.
:31:41. > :31:43.And for several minutes I stood watching my father
:31:44. > :31:49.Meanwhile, my eyes were dry and I was just standing
:31:50. > :31:57.Why do you think the press were so desperate to get you?
:31:58. > :32:01.The archetype of a young child with his mother and him
:32:02. > :32:05.being there while his mother was attacked and witnessing
:32:06. > :32:09.all of that, I think there were so many elements that
:32:10. > :32:24.The press is a business, we like to think the press as some
:32:25. > :32:33.But the press is a private-run business with their own agenda.
:32:34. > :32:55.That would serve them as well as selling newspapers.
:32:56. > :32:59.So then your father, out of the blue, gets a call to say
:33:00. > :33:06.You and me would think it is hard enough to get away with one serious
:33:07. > :33:10.crime yet this person got away with over 100 attacks
:33:11. > :33:15.on over 80 women before he was finally apprehended.
:33:16. > :33:18.Had they been more efficient before, your mother would not be dead
:33:19. > :33:21.and I wonder what you feel about the police's behaviour?
:33:22. > :33:25.What I feel about the police is everyone is going to make mistakes.
:33:26. > :33:29.That is an accepted fact, that is just nature.
:33:30. > :33:32.But when you have a system where people aren't obliged to be
:33:33. > :33:36.accountable to take responsibility for their actions,
:33:37. > :33:39.that is when you create dark corridors and you attract a certain
:33:40. > :33:43.person to that position, which is more prone to incompetence,
:33:44. > :33:49.Because now what we have is the principal of because the police
:33:50. > :33:53.are well-intentioned, they shouldn't be held accountable.
:33:54. > :33:57.In the book you have made it clear that you forgive Robert Napper.
:33:58. > :34:01.Once you have been through a difficult situation,
:34:02. > :34:04.it makes no sense to keep feeling pain, feeling discomfort every time
:34:05. > :34:13.So without condoning that person's actions,
:34:14. > :34:16.that person's behaviour, you forgive that person for yourself
:34:17. > :34:19.so you can let go of that negative baggage that you accumulate
:34:20. > :34:30.Do you think she would think you had turned out well?
:34:31. > :34:33.I know that she knows that I have turned out well.
:34:34. > :34:39.Alex Hanscombe, thank you very much indeed.
:34:40. > :34:41.It wouldn't be a general election campaign without a few
:34:42. > :34:44.Reporters dressed as chickens pursuing party leaders,
:34:45. > :34:46.distinguished correspondents playing cards and eating curry
:34:47. > :34:50.We do things rather differently here on Newsnight,
:34:51. > :34:53.with our blackboards and uplifting graphs.
:34:54. > :34:56.Tonight, we unveil our latest Reithian feature,
:34:57. > :34:58.which basically involves sending an old double-decker bus to parts
:34:59. > :35:01.of the country that never see a real battlebus,
:35:02. > :35:04.or indeed much of the campaign at all.
:35:05. > :35:08.What's worse, the unfortunate souls of these under-covered seats,
:35:09. > :35:11.who are normally spared politics, also had to put up
:35:12. > :35:24.Go out and bring us back a complete breakdown.
:35:25. > :35:30.And that's just what we did with a 1966 Routemaster double-decker.
:35:31. > :35:34.She's already got more than 2 million miles on the clock.
:35:35. > :35:37.We're rolling this baby into some of the safest or most overlooked
:35:38. > :35:42.Ones that rarely get a visit from the party leaders
:35:43. > :35:50.It's a special feature we're calling "Battle Busted".
:35:51. > :35:53.We're bringing the Newsnight bus to the rolling constituency
:35:54. > :36:00.It is one of the most rural and isolated parts of the country.
:36:01. > :36:02.It used to be a safe Liberal stronghold but the Conservatives
:36:03. > :36:07.have held it since 2010, and they're expected to retain it.
:36:08. > :36:12.It's the only seat in Wales that Labour has never won.
:36:13. > :36:17.I'm on a creaking old vehicle that we're using to explore
:36:18. > :36:28.But enough about the programme, what do you think of my bus?
:36:29. > :36:47.I was about to tick you off for rocking the old crate around,
:36:48. > :36:50.but now that it's you, who better to show me around this
:36:51. > :36:57.These streets can tell a few stories.
:36:58. > :37:04.When he was a Lib Dem MP here, Lembit Opik lived in the fast lane.
:37:05. > :37:06.Dating a weather girl and then a pop star.
:37:07. > :37:09.He was seldom out of the limelight, but perhaps he attracted too many
:37:10. > :37:13.headlines for the locals, because he lost in 2010.
:37:14. > :37:16.Tell us a bit about it, for people who have not been lucky
:37:17. > :37:19.enough to see this lovely green part of the Earth.
:37:20. > :37:21.It is a huge constituency, about 70 miles by 70 miles.
:37:22. > :37:23.Very few people here, more sheep than people,
:37:24. > :37:28.And do you think that your former constituents will be
:37:29. > :37:33.excited to see our bus with its associations,
:37:34. > :37:37.I suppose inevitably, with the metropolis down here?
:37:38. > :37:40.Some constituents will look at it and hope that this means there's
:37:41. > :37:46.finally a robust service from Llanidloes up to Caersws.
:37:47. > :37:49.We have a bit of time, we could take a few.
:37:50. > :37:52.You will need a lot of time and you could probably
:37:53. > :37:56.But in the majority, they are a wily local population.
:37:57. > :37:58.They will look at this London bus and just assume
:37:59. > :38:03.We asked people in the market town of Newtown whether they suffered
:38:04. > :38:12.Well, we don't see an awful lot, that is very true around here.
:38:13. > :38:14.Yes, you feel a little bit left out of things.
:38:15. > :38:17.There isn't much election fever here on the face of it
:38:18. > :38:21.and we wondered if people felt they missed out?
:38:22. > :38:24.I'm not sure whether people are feeling they are missing out.
:38:25. > :38:27.I think people may be feeling that in the middle of Wales,
:38:28. > :38:32.Do you regret that they don't tend to come and see
:38:33. > :38:43.I'm interested in politics, I have been watching television
:38:44. > :38:46.and all that sort of stuff and I never would expect them
:38:47. > :38:58.It was time to get back on the bus and resume a job very much
:38:59. > :39:17.I once spent an entire election campaign in a motorway service
:39:18. > :39:36.But this time, my billet was out in the fresh air of Montgomeryshire.
:39:37. > :39:46.People here vote as they have done for generations.
:39:47. > :39:49.These are young farmers learning to judge livestock.
:39:50. > :39:52.I place the Suffolk ewes in the following order.
:39:53. > :39:58.Before they are judged, in turn, by their elders.
:39:59. > :40:04.There is no lack of appreciation for good speech-making here.
:40:05. > :40:08.As soon as I am 18 I have got the chance to vote and I should
:40:09. > :40:15.We have got our Newsnight double-decker bus.
:40:16. > :40:28.If you heard that Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn was coming to town
:40:29. > :40:30.tomorrow, would you turn out to hear them?
:40:31. > :40:33.I wouldn't turn out to hear them, maybe get a selfie
:40:34. > :40:38.Join us again when we bring all the fun of the campaign
:40:39. > :40:48.to parts of the country that the election doesn't reach.
:40:49. > :40:49.That's all we have time for, have a good weekend.