Manchester Attack

:00:22. > :00:23.Images that that have become depressingly familiar.

:00:24. > :00:26.But this time with a terrible twist - a bomber with

:00:27. > :00:31.Good evening from Albert Square in Manchester.

:00:32. > :00:37.In the last hour the terror alert has been raised to critical.

:00:38. > :00:41.Is it a sign of worse things to come?

:00:42. > :00:46.This means that their assessment is not only that an attack remains

:00:47. > :00:50.highly likely but that a further attack may be imminent.

:00:51. > :00:52.Thousands gathered tonight to remember the victims

:00:53. > :00:55.This is a city that's determined not to be divided

:00:56. > :00:58.by what took place half a mile from here at the Manchester Arena.

:00:59. > :01:00.But there's a huge amount of anger too.

:01:01. > :01:04.I feel so much for the parents who have gone through what they have

:01:05. > :01:07.That was not a military target, that's not even a

:01:08. > :01:13.government target, that was just kids.

:01:14. > :01:15.Whenever you've got to say, they were children.

:01:16. > :01:17.Half of them probably don't even know where Raqqa

:01:18. > :01:21.We're here with a survivor and one of the people

:01:22. > :01:23.who know this city best, its former mayor.

:01:24. > :01:25.How will this city - and the country, react?

:01:26. > :01:29.So many questions arise out of these atrocities; not least,

:01:30. > :01:31.how we should respond to these attacks.

:01:32. > :01:34.And strike the right balance between liberty and security?

:01:35. > :01:36.I would anyway be very surprised indeed to find that this

:01:37. > :01:42.In fact the idea of a lone wolf, it is an attractive concept,

:01:43. > :01:44.an attractive label, but it is very, very rare

:01:45. > :01:48.We'll ask if it's possible to create a society,

:01:49. > :01:50.safer and more resilient in the face of these increasingly

:01:51. > :02:06.We'll be with Emily in Manchester this evening,

:02:07. > :02:10.But we start here, as it was from Downing Street

:02:11. > :02:13.at quarter to ten tonight, that the Prime Minister made

:02:14. > :02:18.She said the investigations in Manchester raised the possibility

:02:19. > :02:23.that there are those who were working with last night's

:02:24. > :02:25.bomber who are at large; and that the terror threat needs

:02:26. > :02:28.to be raised because another attack may be imminent.

:02:29. > :02:32.The threat level is, I should say, set by an independent body.

:02:33. > :02:39.She also proposed elevated security measures.

:02:40. > :02:41.Armed police officers responsible for duties like guarding key sites

:02:42. > :02:45.will be replaced by members of the Armed Forces,

:02:46. > :02:48.which will allow the police to significantly increase the number

:02:49. > :02:53.of armed officers on patrol in key locations.

:02:54. > :02:57.You might also see military personnel deployed at certain

:02:58. > :02:59.events, such as concerts and sports matches, helping the police

:03:00. > :03:05.In all circumstances, members of the Armed Forces

:03:06. > :03:07.who are deployed in this way will be under the command

:03:08. > :03:24.That was Theresa May at about quarter to ten, I am joined by Mark

:03:25. > :03:31.Urban, the threat level is critical, is that the first time? It has been

:03:32. > :03:36.done twice before for short periods in 2006 and 2007. It is not

:03:37. > :03:39.unprecedented. But it suggests our belief amongst intelligence experts

:03:40. > :03:46.are further attack could be imminent. Talk us through the logic

:03:47. > :03:52.which will have led to this view? If you look at the possibility that a

:03:53. > :03:56.person in their early 20s as this bomber was could put together

:03:57. > :04:01.something of this nature that could kill so many people, have such

:04:02. > :04:06.devastating effect, it's not too likely that one individual would

:04:07. > :04:09.have two master skills of perhaps making home-made explosives,

:04:10. > :04:13.constructing the bomb and finding the target, motivating themselves to

:04:14. > :04:18.take their own life, all of these things. Because of all the of

:04:19. > :04:23.enquiry which are being actively looked into by the police, there is

:04:24. > :04:26.a belief there could be a wider group of people around them. If you

:04:27. > :04:30.come to the conclusion that this person may not have been able to

:04:31. > :04:36.make the bomb you ask who did make it and might they be prepared to

:04:37. > :04:39.make and deploy others in the coming days? Then you will see the reason

:04:40. > :04:44.why intelligence and security experts might error on the side of

:04:45. > :04:50.caution and raised the threat level. Troops at public events and things

:04:51. > :04:55.like that under the command of police, that is what we had at the

:04:56. > :05:01.Olympics? It has been seen once or twice before, the procedure that

:05:02. > :05:07.this will happen under, Operation Tempora, it was put in place a

:05:08. > :05:12.couple of years ago as a result of a couple of things, ever since Mumbai

:05:13. > :05:15.but also the events in Paris and Brussels, that if there was a major

:05:16. > :05:19.attack involving firearms on the streets of Britain there could be

:05:20. > :05:23.places with particular vulnerabilities. My understanding

:05:24. > :05:26.has always been they are not especially worried about London,

:05:27. > :05:32.where there are lots of armed police. But you go to some of our

:05:33. > :05:35.big cities outside London, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle,

:05:36. > :05:40.Bristol, other cities where the firearms units might be small in

:05:41. > :05:44.part due to cuts in the police, the fuelling a couple of years ago was

:05:45. > :05:48.they had to be worked out contingency plans to backfill the

:05:49. > :05:53.police with Army troops which is what has been talked about now.

:05:54. > :05:58.Inevitably there are people on social media, we are only 45 minutes

:05:59. > :06:01.on from the announcement saying it is an overreaction and playing

:06:02. > :06:07.politics, what other checks and balances in the system that if you

:06:08. > :06:11.like it did the Prime Minister's hand? It is headed by a senior

:06:12. > :06:16.intelligence officer, the Prime Minister emphasising this was a

:06:17. > :06:20.result as a request from the police, that is very much the complexion

:06:21. > :06:25.being put in by Downing Street. A lot of people are concerned, troops

:06:26. > :06:28.on the street, is Theresa May milking the situation? Some people

:06:29. > :06:34.are saying that tonight on the Internet. Exploiting it. This comes

:06:35. > :06:37.down to a judgment by security professionals and as a former Home

:06:38. > :06:39.Secretary she is very comfortable dealing with them. We will hear your

:06:40. > :06:42.report later. All of this comes after

:06:43. > :06:44.last night's bombing - and a day of sadness,

:06:45. > :06:47.some anger and a great It's hard to imagine a softer

:06:48. > :06:53.target than the audience The Manchester Arena is not

:06:54. > :06:57.a military building, There was no confusion

:06:58. > :07:01.in the killer's mind. He came here exactly 24 hours

:07:02. > :07:07.ago to kill children and teenagers: those celebrating

:07:08. > :07:09.the culture that makes An eight year old girl

:07:10. > :07:14.is amongst the dead. The trauma for hundreds

:07:15. > :07:22.of others is incalculable. Tonight, we look at how an event

:07:23. > :07:26.like this changes us, what we know of terror in Manchester

:07:27. > :07:29.and of the suspect himself. But we begin right here

:07:30. > :07:49.in the city itself. Music and Manchester, are deep in

:07:50. > :07:53.each other's brains. This city welcomed buskers and big-name stars

:07:54. > :07:56.with equal warmth. A place that sings it self expression. A city

:07:57. > :08:02.that stops to listen when nothing else makes much sense. Manchester's

:08:03. > :08:06.concerts like the one here last night are something of a rite of

:08:07. > :08:11.passage. Every teenager, every kid falling in love with music for the

:08:12. > :08:15.first time. Tasting what it means to leave their hang-ups and appearance

:08:16. > :08:26.at the door. Enter that sublime Brave New World. Until that Brave

:08:27. > :08:30.New World cracks open. Oh my God! What's going on? A suicide bomber

:08:31. > :08:41.too cowardly to choose anything but the most vulnerable targets

:08:42. > :08:45.detonated himself in the arena foyer. A man came here to kill

:08:46. > :08:50.children while their parents were temporarily out of reach. Amongst

:08:51. > :08:57.the victims just eight years old, Georgina Callander a student of 18

:08:58. > :09:02.and 26 your old man, John Atkinson. Children screaming from their

:09:03. > :09:08.parents, parents desperate to hear those voices. This is my daughter

:09:09. > :09:12.Olivia, I have not seen her since 5pm last night. Charlotte has

:09:13. > :09:17.robustly been appealing for information throughout the day. Let

:09:18. > :09:23.someone know if you think it might be her, please, I just want her

:09:24. > :09:29.home. I want her back in my arms. Paula Robinson was one of those who

:09:30. > :09:32.stopped to help. We were in the Victoria station which is directly

:09:33. > :09:37.outside the arena and this big explosion just went off. Loads of

:09:38. > :09:42.people coming out, but there was huge amounts of teenagers, young

:09:43. > :09:48.children, two caught our eye because they were seeing where is my dad,

:09:49. > :09:51.get my dad. We just got hold of those children, told them we would

:09:52. > :09:55.take them away and that there are dad could not pick them up. She put

:09:56. > :09:59.her number on Facebook to let parents know she was with

:10:00. > :10:04.unaccompanied children. She was overwhelmed with what happened next.

:10:05. > :10:09.People have been ringing me and sending me pictures of their

:10:10. > :10:12.children. I have had hundreds of hysterical parents wanting to know

:10:13. > :10:17.if their children are OK and I have tried to put it out there that I

:10:18. > :10:21.just don't know, I just don't know. The chaos of yesterday has shipped

:10:22. > :10:27.itself into a narrative of sorts. We know an explosion hit the foyer at

:10:28. > :10:32.10:30pm shortly after a sold-out Ariana Grande concert finished.

:10:33. > :10:40.Police believe the attacker detonated an improvised explosive

:10:41. > :10:43.device and died at the scene. So far we know at least 22 were killed in

:10:44. > :10:45.the attack and a further 59 victims including 12 age under 16 were taken

:10:46. > :10:50.to eight hospitals in the area. Police raided a number of addresses

:10:51. > :10:57.in the wider Manchester area. They named a 22-year-old man of Libyan

:10:58. > :11:03.origin board here as a suspect. And by lunchtime they were having to

:11:04. > :11:10.turn people away, for now. Ian has turned up to give blood for the

:11:11. > :11:14.first time in his life. Devastating. You see these things in the news and

:11:15. > :11:18.you think one day it's going to be here but when it happens and it's

:11:19. > :11:23.children, we can react in a lot of ways, we can react in anger or we

:11:24. > :11:28.can react by doing why did I stay in the city for 17 years, this city is

:11:29. > :11:33.a community. He tells me he used to be a bar and inside the arena. It

:11:34. > :11:37.was not a military target, not a government target, it was just kids.

:11:38. > :11:42.What ever you had to say about it they were just children. Half of

:11:43. > :11:46.them probably don't know where Raqqa is or Syria is. It's children at a

:11:47. > :11:54.pop concert. It inhumane. I don't know how else to describe it. This

:11:55. > :12:01.evening in bright sunshine it feels a whole city has come out to mark

:12:02. > :12:05.the moment. To remember the victims, many of them children. Sprayers,

:12:06. > :12:12.talking of peace and forgiveness, for a moment everyone seems to know

:12:13. > :12:16.what to do. But what happens when the crowds are gone, the hashtag

:12:17. > :12:20.forgotten and the grieving are left alone with their unbearable grief?

:12:21. > :12:25.Do not forget this was an attack on kids just trying to grow up and on

:12:26. > :12:26.parents trying to do their best to let them. On an ordinarily Monday

:12:27. > :12:45.night in Manchester. Joe Flinders was one of those at the

:12:46. > :12:48.arena last night. Tony Lloyd was the city 's Police and Crime

:12:49. > :12:52.Commissioner who stepped down just two weeks ago and they join me here,

:12:53. > :12:57.Joe I know you have not been to bed since last night, I am wondering

:12:58. > :13:03.what you did differently, what you went through last night? From my

:13:04. > :13:07.perspective, as I have said, we normally sit in the block that was

:13:08. > :13:11.affected. For whatever reason the tickets we got this time happened to

:13:12. > :13:16.be on the other side, stage left. The epicentre of the blast came from

:13:17. > :13:19.the terminus between Victoria and the arena which nine times out of

:13:20. > :13:25.ten is the only exit I know so it's the only exit I use. For what ever

:13:26. > :13:29.reason we did not use that except and as we left our seats and went

:13:30. > :13:34.into the corridors, everybody was just about grabbing the corridors,

:13:35. > :13:39.that is where we heard and felt the blast. We did not see smoke from our

:13:40. > :13:43.side. There was a second of confusion for everybody but then

:13:44. > :13:47.there was panic, frantic children being dragged by hysterical parents.

:13:48. > :13:52.It was distressing to see parents upset and it was upsetting the

:13:53. > :13:57.children even more. Spilling down the exits we went through. Then one

:13:58. > :14:02.of the most haunting things were seeing the parents picking people up

:14:03. > :14:06.outside, flooding back into the building, going against the crowd to

:14:07. > :14:09.get into their children that they could not see because from their

:14:10. > :14:13.perspective they heard a massive bang and then panicked crowds

:14:14. > :14:18.heading out. So still a bit numb towards it all to be honest. What

:14:19. > :14:23.did you do when you saw those things? First of all we hoped it

:14:24. > :14:25.might have been best case scenario, pyrotechnics or helium cylinder

:14:26. > :14:30.because there were lots of balloons as part of the show. I did not panic

:14:31. > :14:36.until we got onto the street and could see how distressed everyone

:14:37. > :14:39.was. You could hear people's phone calls saying they saw blood and

:14:40. > :14:42.smoke. But we did not see any of that from the entrance we left from.

:14:43. > :14:49.We just tried to get away as quick as we could as we were told to do.

:14:50. > :14:56.And mindless replaying overall why you were not sitting on the seats

:14:57. > :15:01.you normally hat. So many times have I been in that exact plays queueing

:15:02. > :15:05.up to be first at the barriers. I have been going to that building my

:15:06. > :15:10.whole life. For something to happen this close to home, I cannot fathom

:15:11. > :15:13.why someone would target music lovers and children. You do not

:15:14. > :15:20.think about these things happening so close to home. I cannot really

:15:21. > :15:23.digestive. I am quite numb and really tired. Entirely

:15:24. > :15:29.understandable. Thank you for staying up with us. Tony Lloyd, you

:15:30. > :15:33.have heard that the terror alert has been raised, I am wondering as a

:15:34. > :15:38.former police and crime commissioner, what that is now

:15:39. > :15:43.sparking off in your head? I think what it means is that our security

:15:44. > :15:48.services cannot rule out the fact that there could be further threat,

:15:49. > :15:54.that this may not have been a lone act, there is the potential for

:15:55. > :15:59.follow-up. In a city like this, making sure that this experience

:16:00. > :16:02.does not happen again has to be the highest ambition and politicians

:16:03. > :16:06.have to act on the advice of the police and the intelligence

:16:07. > :16:12.services. To do otherwise would be irresponsible. We would all welcome

:16:13. > :16:18.it. I write up thinking we have not been at critical level for a decade?

:16:19. > :16:23.Yes. Since the attack on Glasgow airport and others. It shows the

:16:24. > :16:30.changing nature. We do have to take this seriously. In terms of keeping

:16:31. > :16:37.people safe. The really strong message here tonight in Manchester,

:16:38. > :16:41.was how much people reject, people from all backgrounds, reject these

:16:42. > :16:46.acts of evil by individually crazed people. They are on their own and we

:16:47. > :16:50.stand together. I know you have been here before, I have certainly been

:16:51. > :16:55.here before at these kinds of events and we know that the perpetrators

:16:56. > :17:00.are evil and barbaric and all the rest, but at some stage, you have to

:17:01. > :17:04.say, this is not getting any better. We are living permanently with the

:17:05. > :17:08.kind of terror that means we even know what to do, we know how to

:17:09. > :17:13.behave at vigils, we know when to colour up the Eiffel Tower, that

:17:14. > :17:20.cannot be sustainable, Cabinet? It is not the world any of us want. My

:17:21. > :17:25.answer to that is to say that the things we have learned, of how we do

:17:26. > :17:30.work together, building solidarity in our society is of the utmost

:17:31. > :17:36.importance. It is not just a phraseology that we invented. We

:17:37. > :17:39.stand together. We have got to be together across our many different

:17:40. > :17:44.rainbow communities, that makes up this country of ours. Were you at

:17:45. > :17:49.the vigil? Does it feel like a city that is trying to come together? I

:17:50. > :17:54.was not there. I was comforting my mother. Because from her

:17:55. > :17:58.perspective, she got a phone call from me when it happened, before she

:17:59. > :18:02.heard, because they did not want to have that moment of wondering was I

:18:03. > :18:06.OK. She was really distressed so I came home from work because she

:18:07. > :18:10.needed support. I could have done with the support from her as well.

:18:11. > :18:14.The support from Manchester that I have seen, because my social

:18:15. > :18:18.channels are filled with people from Manchester because I am from here,

:18:19. > :18:25.on a personal level it has touched so many people way everyone got

:18:26. > :18:28.involved. The blood bank, the people offering free lives, taxi drivers,

:18:29. > :18:34.accommodation, children are being gathered in local hotels, it was the

:18:35. > :18:35.best thing we can take from all of this, is how we acted together.

:18:36. > :18:38.Thank you. More from Manchester

:18:39. > :18:41.later in the programme - How do we help them make any sense

:18:42. > :18:53.of what they are going through? Let's reflect on how

:18:54. > :18:55.we should respond to these kinds of atrocities,

:18:56. > :18:57.and the deadly recurrence of them. Since the Charlie Hebdo attacks

:18:58. > :19:00.in Paris kicked off this latest wave of killings,

:19:01. > :19:02.which is not even two and a half years ago now,

:19:03. > :19:05.316 people have been killed across western Europe

:19:06. > :19:07.in violence that might be France, Denmark, Sweden,

:19:08. > :19:13.Belgium, Germany and Britain The selection of iconic targets has

:19:14. > :19:18.somehow brought the sense of threat And in Manchester, we now have

:19:19. > :19:24.twenty thousand or so people, caught up in the trauma of a bomb -

:19:25. > :19:29.running from the danger. Well, we obviously don't

:19:30. > :19:31.want to become inured to violence around us,

:19:32. > :19:34.but we do want to be We also want to preserve our

:19:35. > :19:39.liberties, but also our security. We'll discuss these

:19:40. > :19:41.dilemmas shortly. But first, what we know

:19:42. > :19:43.about the threat? How significant is it that

:19:44. > :20:01.Salman Abedi had succeeded When police raided an address in

:20:02. > :20:06.fallow field they were prepared to discover a bomb factory. They knew

:20:07. > :20:08.that Salman Abedi, the bombing suspect had lived here and we have

:20:09. > :20:13.learned were proceeding on the assumption that he had used

:20:14. > :20:17.home-made explosives and indeed, one officer was seen emerging from the

:20:18. > :20:23.property with this. For the police, it is vital to learn how the worst

:20:24. > :20:30.attack for 12 years was carried out. Can you move back down please? Thank

:20:31. > :20:38.you very much. Key to the investigation is the explosives and

:20:39. > :20:44.the construction of the bomb itself. In 7/7 and Paris and Brussels the

:20:45. > :20:48.tracks, hydrogen peroxide explosives were used. The principles of making

:20:49. > :20:52.it are easily understood and have been propagated by Al-Qaeda and the

:20:53. > :20:58.Islamic State group. It is easy to do wrong. In the 21 slash seven

:20:59. > :21:03.attacks, and the bombs did not go off properly and on other occasions

:21:04. > :21:06.they have gone off prematurely. The chemistry and weaponisation the

:21:07. > :21:12.explosives with shrapnel takes skill is unlikely to have been possessed

:21:13. > :21:18.by Abedi. I would be very surprised indeed to find that this was just

:21:19. > :21:22.one person. In fact, the idea of a lone wolf, it is an attractive

:21:23. > :21:25.concept, an attractive label but it is very rare that it actually

:21:26. > :21:31.happens, that someone is operating purely on their own. It is much more

:21:32. > :21:41.common for there to be a cell and for that sell to be connected to a

:21:42. > :21:44.broader organisation. So the questions multiply about

:21:45. > :21:49.accomplices. Did Abedi or someone else make the bomb and find the

:21:50. > :21:54.target? Who radicalised him? If there is a wider circle, could more

:21:55. > :22:00.attacks be mounted? Certainly in this case, the level of expertise is

:22:01. > :22:03.in building an explosive device capable of killing the number of

:22:04. > :22:08.people it has, collecting materials in order to do that in the first

:22:09. > :22:11.place, completely undetected by the police and the security services and

:22:12. > :22:16.then being able to transport from one place to another, bearing in

:22:17. > :22:20.mind they can be quite volatile, these home built weapons and then

:22:21. > :22:26.being able to detonate it at will at the place of your choosing. There is

:22:27. > :22:30.a level of expertise that is not acquired by the internet or by

:22:31. > :22:35.sitting in your bedroom. Enquiries by Newsnight suggest that Abedi's

:22:36. > :22:39.father and brother were linked to the Didsbury Islamic centre mass

:22:40. > :22:44.that was taken over several years ago by sympathisers of the Libyan

:22:45. > :22:49.Islamic fighters group, and Al-Qaeda affiliate. For Gaddafi fell, the

:22:50. > :22:52.group's leadership came to terms with the Libyan government and

:22:53. > :22:58.agreed they would stop fighting and return to being released from

:22:59. > :23:02.prison. The group really dissipated but that did not mean to say that

:23:03. > :23:05.the members gave up their ideas and gave up the radicalisation and I am

:23:06. > :23:12.sure that some of them will have gone towards Iraq and Syria were

:23:13. > :23:17.some may have joined some other groups and some may have joined the

:23:18. > :23:21.Islamic State. I news agency affiliated to the Islamic State has

:23:22. > :23:24.claimed responsibility for the Manchester attack, but it is not

:23:25. > :23:29.clear yet whether they have done this opportunistically or are behind

:23:30. > :23:33.and more complex conspiracy. For now, there are multiple lines of

:23:34. > :23:39.enquiry concerning the associates of the bomber and how someone was able

:23:40. > :23:42.to make such a lethal contraption. In time though, there will be

:23:43. > :23:47.broader questions asked, such as how all the procedures and mechanisms

:23:48. > :23:54.put in place after the 2005 London attacks were beaten. The police say

:23:55. > :23:58.that since 2013, they have broken up more than a dozen terrorist plots in

:23:59. > :24:02.the UK, but on this occasion, they did not succeed.

:24:03. > :24:04.Well, with me in the studio is Shami Chakrabarti,

:24:05. > :24:08.But who is actually not here in that capacity -

:24:09. > :24:10.this is not a day for political points.

:24:11. > :24:13.Shami was for 13 years until last year, the director of Liberty,

:24:14. > :24:21.Good evening to you. The great question that emerges on days like

:24:22. > :24:28.this is how we got the balance between liberties and security

:24:29. > :24:33.right? There is a sweeping question with so many questions within it but

:24:34. > :24:38.at the heart of all of this is probably a word that Tony Lloyd used

:24:39. > :24:42.briefly in the interview with Emily which was this idea of solidarity,

:24:43. > :24:50.this idea of a community trying to stay calm and United, under the kind

:24:51. > :24:55.of provocation that you see from this kind of terrorism which is of

:24:56. > :24:59.course designed to provoke, designed to divide, designed to turn people

:25:00. > :25:05.against each other and to have people living in fear. Ironically,

:25:06. > :25:14.to shut down what Theresa May call today our liberal pluralist society.

:25:15. > :25:17.It is certainly the kind of day for calm, a certain pause for thought

:25:18. > :25:22.and unity and then of course for resources. We have heard, we hear

:25:23. > :25:29.about the threat has been raised and the resources that are to be

:25:30. > :25:36.deployed. I have not heard anything as yet that suggests a knee jerk to

:25:37. > :25:40.bring in other powers. It would not worry you that there is a rush to

:25:41. > :25:43.judgment. On occasions like this particularly where children are

:25:44. > :25:47.involved, people will want to tilt the balance away from liberty and

:25:48. > :25:51.say screw liberty, it is about getting these people. There was not

:25:52. > :25:58.any liberty in that concert Hall last night for those children. Let

:25:59. > :26:04.us be clear. Human rights include the right to protection of precious

:26:05. > :26:11.life, however, how best to do that and probably not, we have learned,

:26:12. > :26:18.but -- by knee jerk that do not unite us. The sun is reporting that

:26:19. > :26:23.the government is about to ask Parliament to approve technical

:26:24. > :26:27.capability notices which will force internet companies to basically

:26:28. > :26:33.de-encrypt or handover" to that data, I do not know the details, is

:26:34. > :26:38.this the kind of thing that is going too far? I do not know what the Sun

:26:39. > :26:41.is reporting, but there is no Parliament at the moment, this is

:26:42. > :26:46.one of the challenges of this rather extraordinary moment. There is no

:26:47. > :26:50.Parliament. We have got this terrorist atrocity and we have got

:26:51. > :26:54.no Parliament. However, there is still checks and balances and I have

:26:55. > :26:57.colleagues who are privy counsellors and I know that Theresa May has

:26:58. > :27:00.spoken to the Leader of the Opposition and will no doubt do so

:27:01. > :27:05.again. I have other colleagues like Diane Abbott who is a privy

:27:06. > :27:09.Counsellor again, there is still the possibility of for discussion and

:27:10. > :27:14.scrutiny in a bipartisan way in these challenging times. Are you

:27:15. > :27:17.satisfied with the system, we have the independent body who recommend

:27:18. > :27:23.the threat level, are you satisfied, if you like, with the broad

:27:24. > :27:29.independence of that cyst, that it is not subject to politicisation?

:27:30. > :27:34.What I would say on a night like this one is that this is not the

:27:35. > :27:39.moment for conspiracy theories. If anyone is feeling panicked about the

:27:40. > :27:46.timing of this, I would urge them to be calm and United. I have

:27:47. > :27:49.colleagues who are great civil libertarians and human rights folk

:27:50. > :27:54.and privy counsellors and I think that it is possible to take this

:27:55. > :27:58.forward in a bipartisan way. You broadly support then the raising of

:27:59. > :28:01.the threat level? I am not a privy Counsellor and I have not seen the

:28:02. > :28:07.intelligence but nor am I going to take a knee jerk in the other

:28:08. > :28:10.direction and to be a conspiracy theorist, I do not think that would

:28:11. > :28:12.be good for anyone this evening. Thank you very much.

:28:13. > :28:15.Let me turn to Shaista Gohir who chairs the Muslim

:28:16. > :28:17.And Professor Michael Clarke - specialist adviser to

:28:18. > :28:19.the Joint National Committee on Security Strategy

:28:20. > :28:36.and former Director General of Royal United Services Institute.

:28:37. > :28:45.Can I start with Hugh? She hinted at us not needing extra powers but

:28:46. > :28:49.potentially need extra resources, is that where the security services

:28:50. > :28:56.would be when it comes to dealing with this track?

:28:57. > :29:02.We have plenty of counterterrorism law in this country, but the police

:29:03. > :29:08.need more reason horses and I think that is what this will hinge on. We

:29:09. > :29:13.don't need more powers but we need the powers that do exist more across

:29:14. > :29:21.the board. The police have been suffering cuts year after year,

:29:22. > :29:24.maybe too far? Or is it a matter of redeploying resources? That is where

:29:25. > :29:30.the knock on problem is, they met in London take the lead but if you look

:29:31. > :29:34.at other constabularies in other big cities which may now be vulnerable,

:29:35. > :29:41.they will tell you that their counter terrorism squads are too

:29:42. > :29:47.small, and that is where the knock on effect arises. If there are more

:29:48. > :29:50.police there could be more firearms officers but if this threat level of

:29:51. > :29:57.critical means troops will turn out that will release more police to do

:29:58. > :30:00.the firearms related task. The technical capability notices or

:30:01. > :30:07.whatever the government are looking at to get more data, is that the

:30:08. > :30:11.missing link in the powers they have? They will have a problem

:30:12. > :30:15.because the jurisdiction is a big issue, the government have worried

:30:16. > :30:19.about it for a long time. The companies are not British so there

:30:20. > :30:24.is only a sort of certain amount of their operation they could demand

:30:25. > :30:28.control over. Shaista Gohir let me turn to you, you are concerned to

:30:29. > :30:32.some extent with preventing these things, using that word because we

:30:33. > :30:36.have a prevent programme which tries to do it. From the perspective of

:30:37. > :30:46.Muslim Women's Network UK needs to change, either in the rest of

:30:47. > :30:53.society or in the Muslim community? I would like to pay sincere

:30:54. > :30:56.condolences to the friends and families of the victims,

:30:57. > :31:01.particularly parents who have lost their children. It's unthinkable to

:31:02. > :31:07.lose your children. In terms of what can be done, we talk about how do

:31:08. > :31:09.challenge and the threat of ices and that is something the police and

:31:10. > :31:22.government are working on but there is more that can be done -- the

:31:23. > :31:25.threat of IS. This attack has been so horrific that everybody, no

:31:26. > :31:32.matter what your background is has condemned this, it's an attack on

:31:33. > :31:37.children and an attack on all of us, but although the Muslim community by

:31:38. > :31:43.and large is really shaken with this and is condemning it unfortunately

:31:44. > :31:46.there are a small cohort of people, individuals, organisations, I will

:31:47. > :31:54.not name them on here, but they are very active in terms of the will not

:31:55. > :31:59.want Muslims to work with the government... Sorry to interrupt,

:32:00. > :32:05.would be recognise themselves as supporters of Isis or would be think

:32:06. > :32:10.of themselves as opposed? But not opposed in the right way? I will

:32:11. > :32:15.describe what they are and then I think we can decide whose side on

:32:16. > :32:19.because they are not on our side and I would put them on the side of

:32:20. > :32:24.extremists because these people first of all I have noticed when

:32:25. > :32:28.there are terror attacks do not condemn them and at first I thought

:32:29. > :32:32.let me give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it is because we have

:32:33. > :32:37.so many and they are abroad, maybe they do not want to condemn each and

:32:38. > :32:41.everyone but this one you have to be heartless not to condemn. This was

:32:42. > :32:46.on children, an attack on our own home country and yet there has been

:32:47. > :32:51.silence. They have very quickly jumped on the bandwagon of their is

:32:52. > :32:56.going to be a backlash on Muslims that has already started. We need to

:32:57. > :33:00.condemn that, yes, but it's a conversation we need to be having in

:33:01. > :33:04.coming days. Today our focus should be on the victims and their

:33:05. > :33:11.families. The same people will criticise the government's strategy

:33:12. > :33:13.of prevent and that is fine. People who work with government like

:33:14. > :33:17.ourselves will raise concerns and say we need to do better because

:33:18. > :33:21.innocent people get caught up in this. Let me finish my point, it's

:33:22. > :33:28.really important, the same people will demonise and target people and

:33:29. > :33:34.vilify people who want to work with government to defeat and challenge

:33:35. > :33:38.extremists. We are called Muslim apologists. By condemning terrorism

:33:39. > :33:44.it is not being an apologist, it's about being a human being. Thank you

:33:45. > :33:49.very much, that point is very well made. I want to throw last one to

:33:50. > :33:56.you Michael Clarke about security, prevention of these kind of

:33:57. > :34:01.incidents. Can armed troops, armed police, if someone walks in with a

:34:02. > :34:05.bomb, he walks in, when the exits are open so everyone is leaving so

:34:06. > :34:10.you don't have security, you could put security around the outside of

:34:11. > :34:16.the arena but then you will have people exiting the security zone to

:34:17. > :34:21.outside, what are we meant to make of the difficulty here? It's all

:34:22. > :34:25.risk calculation. You could extend the security perimeter around every

:34:26. > :34:29.event and then you have problems around the perimeter again. Armed

:34:30. > :34:34.police can provide reassurance and make sure an attack does not go very

:34:35. > :34:37.far which is what happened in Westminster. But ultimately if

:34:38. > :34:49.somebody wants to try something they will get the first blow in before

:34:50. > :34:52.anyone can react and unless we are going to live in some sort of East

:34:53. > :34:54.German state that will always be the case. It's a matter of the public

:34:55. > :34:57.being vigilant and accepting we live with the level of risk. That is what

:34:58. > :35:00.the security services have been telling us for the last 15 years.

:35:01. > :35:03.Thank you both very much. Back over to Emily in Manchester.

:35:04. > :35:05.Today the Children's Commissioner for England urged adults to find

:35:06. > :35:07.a way to tell our children what has happened.

:35:08. > :35:10.But how we do help them make sense of such terrible acts

:35:11. > :35:12.of violence particularly when it's their generation

:35:13. > :35:31.Just approaching eight o'clock on BBC radio Manchester. Their faces

:35:32. > :35:35.stay out from the missing appeals on social media. Olivia Campbell's mum

:35:36. > :35:40.has not heard from her since she went to the concert last night.

:35:41. > :35:45.Relatives desperately seeking Chloe Rutherford and Liam Curry. And

:35:46. > :35:52.Courtney Boyle, just 19, is also unaccounted for. In many case this

:35:53. > :35:56.was an attack on young people. As parents and children woke up to the

:35:57. > :36:02.news of what had happened many grappled with how to explain this

:36:03. > :36:06.assault on the young, to the young. Children go out and they go to a

:36:07. > :36:13.concerted and this is what happens. You go out as a family on a happy

:36:14. > :36:16.occasion and this is what happens. Outside Manchester's Kingswood

:36:17. > :36:22.primary school parents were still die jesting the horror. What was

:36:23. > :36:26.your reaction as a parent? I was scared, shocked, I was on the phone

:36:27. > :36:32.telling them to get home on time, things like that, really scared.

:36:33. > :36:40.Mortified as a parent, mortified. I mean... My eldest walk up, got out

:36:41. > :36:44.of bed and she saw, she is 13, she's got a phone and she sent me a

:36:45. > :36:49.message so she clearly knows and understands what is going on. The

:36:50. > :36:56.three younger ones don't know about it. But my heartfelt sympathies and

:36:57. > :37:02.I feel so much for the parents who have gone through what they have

:37:03. > :37:07.gone through today. The school flag has been lowered in sympathy. Many

:37:08. > :37:10.schools in the area and beyond will have decided an attack which shocked

:37:11. > :37:16.adults will also have had an impact on children. Kings road cancelled

:37:17. > :37:21.its full school assembly in favour of teachers talking to their

:37:22. > :37:27.individual classes. Some year groups had heard gossip about knives and

:37:28. > :37:31.guns and rampaging people. We had to deal with that, dealing with

:37:32. > :37:38.mistruths and correcting them sensibly. Other year groups,

:37:39. > :37:42.although your groups there was a mix of emotions, some children felt fear

:37:43. > :37:47.and negative emotions and other children felt different negative

:37:48. > :37:51.emotions such as anger. How'd you make children feel safe? We have not

:37:52. > :37:54.let them out at playtime today because we wondered what the risk

:37:55. > :37:58.was and we have locked all the gates throughout the school and senior

:37:59. > :38:03.leaders have patrolled outside the school today so it is physically

:38:04. > :38:08.safe. Helping the parents be assured so their children are safe in

:38:09. > :38:11.school. Then there is emotionally safe as well and safe to feel fear

:38:12. > :38:17.and what we do with that and I think we have a responsibility as a school

:38:18. > :38:20.to tackle that. This educational psychologist gave British schools

:38:21. > :38:28.advise in the wake of the Paris attacks and was hand again today.

:38:29. > :38:34.Before eight o'clock this morning I gave out e-mails to answer

:38:35. > :38:37.children's questions, give them the facts, do not engage in speculation

:38:38. > :38:43.but acknowledge it and talk about it. For one parent, picking up his

:38:44. > :38:46.daughter from the primaries go, talking is very necessary. Today his

:38:47. > :38:52.apartment block became central to the police investigation. There was

:38:53. > :38:57.a chord and setup, three building blocks have been surrounded by the

:38:58. > :39:01.police and security forces. Is that still the case? Up until this

:39:02. > :39:04.moment. They are making their enquiries about someone who has

:39:05. > :39:08.lived in the premises who has a connection with what happened in

:39:09. > :39:14.Manchester last night. How do you feel about that? Despicable if it is

:39:15. > :39:21.the right word. If it can be broadcasted. It really should not be

:39:22. > :39:24.done in England. The blocks here, parents living nearby said they felt

:39:25. > :39:28.the need to explain what has happened to their children. I think

:39:29. > :39:32.it is really important to be honest with your kids when they ask, do not

:39:33. > :39:37.overlook them with too much information because that could make

:39:38. > :39:42.them frightened about going out and just try and keep, if they want to,

:39:43. > :39:47.talk about it and listen to them if they are scared. The overwhelming

:39:48. > :39:50.response we found today to the indiscriminate violence was empathy.

:39:51. > :39:53.Parents deeply moved by the knowledge that they can still guard

:39:54. > :40:04.their children close when others cannot. I am joined by: Parry who

:40:05. > :40:09.lost his son in 1993 in an IRA attack. You are an extraordinary

:40:10. > :40:14.inspiration to any parent watching this tonight, because what you have

:40:15. > :40:19.done, you and your wife, is to really read channel that anger into

:40:20. > :40:26.something very positive. Yes, although I would say there was never

:40:27. > :40:30.any anger. I will not get into that. We channelled our energies into

:40:31. > :40:34.doing something meaningful in terms of keeping Tim's name alive in any

:40:35. > :40:40.way we did and Jonathan, the other little boy who died. We began with a

:40:41. > :40:45.3-way exchange programme between Bury Dublin and Warrington for young

:40:46. > :40:50.people and two years on having seen the results, we decided we wanted to

:40:51. > :40:53.scale up and the only way we could do that was to build our own

:40:54. > :40:58.premises in Warrington and over the next couple of years, I fund raise

:40:59. > :41:03.with a few significant political allies and we built the Peace Centre

:41:04. > :41:07.in 2000 and that where we do most of our work. When you saw what happened

:41:08. > :41:13.here last night, I am wondering that took you back to square one? More

:41:14. > :41:19.than any other terrorist outraged in the years that followed Warrington,

:41:20. > :41:26.this hit me and my wife and my daughter as well, she was very upset

:41:27. > :41:28.today, because it was children. It was children doing something

:41:29. > :41:35.perfectly normal for children, just having fun. You said Tim was on his

:41:36. > :41:39.way to buy football shorts. He was. That is all he was doing, buying

:41:40. > :41:43.some football shirts because he has saved a penalty the week before for

:41:44. > :41:48.the school team and he went out and never came home and 22 people have

:41:49. > :41:54.done the same here and many of them are children. It is horrifying that

:41:55. > :41:58.such young lives can be lost like that. I was looking at some of the

:41:59. > :42:01.photographs on the news earlier, the eight-year-old girl, what a

:42:02. > :42:04.beautiful little girl and how her parents are feeling now. I can

:42:05. > :42:10.imagine how they are feeling. I don't know if you are reaching out

:42:11. > :42:12.to them, what would you say to them or anyone going through that now? I

:42:13. > :42:18.don't know that anything could be said right now that would make a jot

:42:19. > :42:22.of difference because they will be so broken. And so heartbroken and

:42:23. > :42:26.devastated that I think they will probably be deaf to most things. I

:42:27. > :42:30.found in those early days and weeks that we operated on a basic level,

:42:31. > :42:34.we slept and we ate and people came in and did the basic things for us,

:42:35. > :42:37.family and friends and we were relieved of having to do anything

:42:38. > :42:43.other than basic existence because the grief is so enormous. I don't

:42:44. > :42:47.think any function above the most basic is within your capabilities

:42:48. > :42:51.and it takes time to reach the point where maybe you can start to have

:42:52. > :42:54.conversations with people, and some advice might be helpful. I think

:42:55. > :42:57.when we might reach out to people possibly be of help is once they

:42:58. > :43:02.have gone through that awful initial grief, that might be weeks or

:43:03. > :43:07.months, but when we are ready, we would be the ideal organisation to

:43:08. > :43:12.talk to, because we are a victim founded organisation. We can

:43:13. > :43:19.empathise in ways that perhaps a professional cannot. Thank you very

:43:20. > :43:22.much. That is the ambition now for Manchester to try and work out how

:43:23. > :43:27.it falls together, how it finds comfort and support, how it finds

:43:28. > :43:30.optimism in anything that has happened here, because to be frank,

:43:31. > :43:35.there is nothing else they can do right now. Emily, thank you.

:43:36. > :43:37.The prime minister said this was worst ever attack

:43:38. > :43:40.It's not the first, but it is clearly far more traumatic

:43:41. > :43:43.for Manchester than the IRA bombing in the centre of the

:43:44. > :43:46.It takes the violence that struck in London in 2005

:43:47. > :43:49.and again earlier this year, beyond the capital, to the nation.

:43:50. > :43:51.I'm joined by the author Howard Jacobson - very quickly

:43:52. > :43:55.after the attack he penned a tribute to his home city of Manchester

:43:56. > :44:01.Good evening. You wrote something interesting, though Manchester now

:44:02. > :44:04.belongs to a long list of terrorist casualties it is, it can think of

:44:05. > :44:09.itself as picked up, it is a city of rare figure and that is a striking

:44:10. > :44:14.point. It is the figure that makes it a target. It makes it vulnerable,

:44:15. > :44:18.you think of it is a big and free and happy and joking use it loving

:44:19. > :44:23.place, if ever there was a vulnerable place, it is Manchester.

:44:24. > :44:29.It is not unique, but it is a town given over to good natured fun and

:44:30. > :44:33.entertainment. Good natured relations between the people there

:44:34. > :44:37.and that makes it, well it is my hometown and I have family there, so

:44:38. > :44:43.I feel particularly sad and anxious about it. Sad anxious, emotions run

:44:44. > :44:48.high on all the days of these atrocities. How much emotion should

:44:49. > :44:54.we allow ourselves and how much can we allow ourselves if these

:44:55. > :44:57.atrocities occur once a month? In the Second World War, the story

:44:58. > :45:01.goes, the stiff upper lip and you would not have coped if you were

:45:02. > :45:06.going to get too sentimental about things, but it is very hard not to

:45:07. > :45:10.be. It is and one does not know whether the word is sentimental. The

:45:11. > :45:13.real answer is you feel as much as you need to feel and some people

:45:14. > :45:17.will feel it differently and some people will eventually come to feel

:45:18. > :45:22.better about it as the gentleman we have just seen in some people might

:45:23. > :45:26.never heal. I suspect that if I were the parent of one of those children,

:45:27. > :45:31.I would never heal and I would be angry, but that is not to say that

:45:32. > :45:35.is the way to feel. You're quite right that the war and I often think

:45:36. > :45:38.about that but I am wondering if it is the nature of the violence that

:45:39. > :45:42.is done to that makes the difference. People say terrorism is

:45:43. > :45:47.not so terrible, more people are knocked down by bicycles but there

:45:48. > :45:51.is something about an accident, the way you are killed. It is much much

:45:52. > :45:56.worse. You feel there is a malevolence in the air when that

:45:57. > :45:58.happens and you might very well and it is a personal, spiteful

:45:59. > :46:03.malevolence that is aimed at you. The person who did this wanted to

:46:04. > :46:07.kill children. We want to be a resilient society and pick ourselves

:46:08. > :46:11.up and I suppose the question is, how quickly we return to normality

:46:12. > :46:16.after these things. What else does resilience mean other than pick

:46:17. > :46:21.ourselves up and go back to work? What is a normality? The thing that

:46:22. > :46:25.gave on some consolation was the account of how people work in the

:46:26. > :46:32.immediate aftermath and how helpful people work, this is the truth about

:46:33. > :46:35.Manchester, it might sound like, they are lovely Laura, they are

:46:36. > :46:38.lovely in Manchester and very kind and I heard that story about the

:46:39. > :46:43.taxi drivers ferrying people and my father was a black taxi driver in

:46:44. > :46:47.Manchester. He is not alive now but I know he would have been calling

:46:48. > :46:54.his friends and saying, let's do it. It is a very equal society and the

:46:55. > :46:56.help one another. I'm not saying it does not have them elsewhere, but

:46:57. > :47:01.Manchester is particularly like that. That is one set of immediate

:47:02. > :47:11.responses that was great and gave you hope in human nature. It is a

:47:12. > :47:15.music city, it is a party city. You presumably help that they are back

:47:16. > :47:19.to music and entertainment as quickly as you can clear the crime

:47:20. > :47:23.scenes and the evidence. Of course yes, but we have to ask ourselves

:47:24. > :47:29.whether there is a callousness and simply getting back to that. We can

:47:30. > :47:34.work the two tracks, we can live our lives and the active and enjoy our

:47:35. > :47:38.lives and at the same time, there can be a layer of sadness, that this

:47:39. > :47:42.is the case, that this happened and we will never forget that it

:47:43. > :47:45.happened. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you for coming in.

:47:46. > :47:46.Well, that is it from us this evening.

:47:47. > :47:49.It's worth remembering amid the gloom that every event

:47:50. > :47:51.ignites a counter reaction, the bad always provokes the good;

:47:52. > :47:53.and there has been no shortage of that at all.

:47:54. > :47:56.We thought James Corden captured that thought rather well last night;

:47:57. > :47:59.the English host of the US Late Late Show on CBS came on air

:48:00. > :48:02.as events were developing, here's some of what he said.

:48:03. > :48:08.It shocks me every time we hear this sort of news that attacks

:48:09. > :48:10.like this can happen, but especially when there

:48:11. > :48:16.will be so many children at this concert tonight.

:48:17. > :48:18.Many of you won't have ever been to Manchester,

:48:19. > :48:22.but you will definitely have heard of it.

:48:23. > :48:29.It's famous all over the world for so many wonderful things.

:48:30. > :48:43.It was the birthplace of the leader of the suffragettes.

:48:44. > :48:45.It's the home of the inventor of the first computer.

:48:46. > :48:51.It's a place full of comedy and curries and character.

:48:52. > :48:53.But when I think of Manchester, the place that I know,

:48:54. > :48:59.I think of the spirit of the people there.

:49:00. > :49:02.And I'm telling you, a more tight-knit group of people

:49:03. > :49:07.Strong, proud, caring people with community at its core.

:49:08. > :49:10.And if it was even possible, the spirit of the people

:49:11. > :49:17.of Manchester will grow even stronger this evening.

:49:18. > :49:20.My thoughts and prayers are with everyone in Manchester tonight.

:49:21. > :49:23.All of the staff at the MEN arena, all of the security teams,

:49:24. > :49:26.all of the emergency services, Ariana and her team and all those

:49:27. > :49:30.We'll all go to bed holding our little ones even