24/05/2017

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:00:08. > :00:11.When the last ounce of hope for many families and friends evaporates,

:00:12. > :00:15.and the disappeared become the deceased.

:00:16. > :00:17.Here in Manchester tonight, there has been more grief

:00:18. > :00:20.at the names of those known to have died, and there have been

:00:21. > :00:22.fast-moving developments in the police investigation

:00:23. > :00:27.as we learn more about the suicide bomber, Salman Abedi.

:00:28. > :00:32.He looked into the eyes of the imam and gave him a really deadly look.

:00:33. > :00:34.He didn't say anything, but his facial features

:00:35. > :00:42.We speak to the Libyan militiaman who interrogated

:00:43. > :00:46.the bomber's brother, Hashem.

:00:47. > :00:50.Before the attack, he called him, and he called him, can

:00:51. > :00:53.you give me my mum to call her, so his brother said

:00:54. > :00:56.that there was something going on there in Manchester,

:00:57. > :01:03.that he would do something like an attack.

:01:04. > :01:06.As the first pictures of the suicide device are leaked

:01:07. > :01:08.to the American press, we hear from the Mayor

:01:09. > :01:17.I made known my concerns about it to the US ambassador.

:01:18. > :01:20.It's not acceptable to me that here there is a live

:01:21. > :01:25.We cannot have information being put in the public domain that's not

:01:26. > :01:29.the direct control of the British police and security services.

:01:30. > :01:32.And we'll also talk to the head of intensive care

:01:33. > :01:44.at Royal Manchester Children's Hospital.

:01:45. > :01:46.Good evening from St Anne's Square in the heart of Manchester,

:01:47. > :01:51.a city that has been so big-hearted in the last 48 hours.

:01:52. > :01:53.I'm next to the flowers left as a crowd-built shrine

:01:54. > :02:00.This is the start of what might be a lonely journey for many families.

:02:01. > :02:06.The crowd of willing helpers can do no more.

:02:07. > :02:09.And the grieving begins over those whose lives are now known to have

:02:10. > :02:14.Through the day, names have been added to the list of lives lost.

:02:15. > :02:18.Meanwhile there is a very active police investigation.

:02:19. > :02:20.Six arrests have been made in the UK today.

:02:21. > :02:27.But interestingly, we are getting quite a bit of information

:02:28. > :02:31.about what is being discovered from American sources.

:02:32. > :02:34.And tonight the New York Times has in fact published police images

:02:35. > :02:38.I'm joined here by our defence editor, Mark Urban.

:02:39. > :02:47.Let's just talk through what those photos show. I just took a very

:02:48. > :02:54.brief glance at them. They are leaked scenes of crime officers type

:02:55. > :03:04.images, we think shared through the FBI, that could be the route. The

:03:05. > :03:11.first one shows the remnants of a Karrimor backpack, not a suicide

:03:12. > :03:14.vest, but it went off and the way the attacker's body broke up, shall

:03:15. > :03:20.we say, is the basis for the theory that it was on his back when it went

:03:21. > :03:24.off. The second image shows a silver cylinder which is in fact a

:03:25. > :03:29.triggering device, a push-button triggering device that could be used

:03:30. > :03:34.to initiate the charge that sets off the explosives. The third image is

:03:35. > :03:43.an image of some frankly unpleasant looking ironmongery on the floor of

:03:44. > :03:47.the foyer, and we all know what that did to the young people around the

:03:48. > :03:52.bomber. What we understand from this reporting is that the distribution

:03:53. > :03:56.of the shrapnel suggested know-how in the making of the bomb, and then

:03:57. > :04:04.the last image is a 12 volt battery, we have seen these used before as

:04:05. > :04:08.initiators. Effectively you put a charge through wire or some thing

:04:09. > :04:12.which causes the explosive to go off, particularly the home-made

:04:13. > :04:16.types of explosives. All of this I think compounds the picture of a

:04:17. > :04:19.bomb that was skilfully put together by someone who knew what they were

:04:20. > :04:25.doing, and of course the power of the explosion, by somebody who knew

:04:26. > :04:30.how to do that, because if you get it wrong, it either goes off before

:04:31. > :04:39.you reach the place, or it goes off with no effect, as it happened in

:04:40. > :04:42.July 2005. And the other issue is that the UK are sharing

:04:43. > :04:46.intelligence, which it is useful to do, and it is finding its way into

:04:47. > :04:51.the New York Times. There is a double irritation. Among the network

:04:52. > :04:53.of people I know in counter-terrorism, they don't feel

:04:54. > :05:05.very much is being shared in this country. The tendency for Whitehall

:05:06. > :05:11.control free controlling that we see, they say there are operational

:05:12. > :05:14.needs for that, but some of the people I talk to are within the ring

:05:15. > :05:18.of secrecy, and this is compounded by the fact that they concede all of

:05:19. > :05:21.these things coming out through the media in the United States,

:05:22. > :05:25.initially the reporting about how many people had died, it was

:05:26. > :05:29.believed to be a suicide attacker, then the name, now these images

:05:30. > :05:36.which clearly do come from a scene of crime investigator, so there is

:05:37. > :05:39.upset. Depressing was a word that one person used that I spoke to

:05:40. > :05:43.today, and clearly they would like to see it stopped. Thank you, mark,

:05:44. > :05:46.and we will hear your report later on.

:05:47. > :05:48.Well, with so much interest in the investigation

:05:49. > :05:50.here and around the world, and deep sadness as well as

:05:51. > :05:52.the names and stories of the people killed emerge,

:05:53. > :05:57.only a degree of normality has been reached.

:05:58. > :06:06.For most of the city, it's Wednesday, and life goes on. No one,

:06:07. > :06:10.though, is in danger of forgetting what's happened here, and as a

:06:11. > :06:13.reminder, a heavy police presence and an active police investigation,

:06:14. > :06:17.a city centre block of flats raided at lunchtime as police searched for

:06:18. > :06:25.a network of conspirators who had worked with Salman Abedi. By 2pm,

:06:26. > :06:28.normal Manchester and police Manchester were side-by-side as a

:06:29. > :06:33.crowd gathered to see what was going on. You might have thought an armed

:06:34. > :06:38.police raid in the centre of the city would lead to some jitters,

:06:39. > :06:42.nervousness, fear, but there is not a bit of that here, in fact what

:06:43. > :06:46.several people have said to me is that they find the presence of the

:06:47. > :06:51.police, even armed police, quite reassuring. It feels under control.

:06:52. > :06:54.It is quite easy to get back into the routine. Have you noticed any

:06:55. > :06:59.difference in people's behaviour, that people may be done push in

:07:00. > :07:06.queues as much? Is everybody very gentle and nice to each other? I

:07:07. > :07:12.don't know, it is little things like you make more eye contact with

:07:13. > :07:16.people because you are all going through the same thing, dealing with

:07:17. > :07:19.this in a place you call home. What about the mood in Manchester if

:07:20. > :07:23.there can be such a thing from all city. Is it anger, is a sadness, is

:07:24. > :07:29.it back to normal? It is certainly not back to normal. Sadness, but

:07:30. > :07:35.there has been an overwhelming coming together of people which has

:07:36. > :07:38.been amazing to see. When the threat level was increased, it was a bit

:07:39. > :07:42.frightening, because they were saying there could be another

:07:43. > :07:45.attack, and that is going to scare people, but I think if you don't go

:07:46. > :07:51.out of the house or you don't just go about with your normal behaviour,

:07:52. > :07:55.then you are really letting the win, are in Chew? Everybody around here

:07:56. > :07:59.is trying to get on with things, but also to be involved. An initiative

:08:00. > :08:09.of local tattoo artists on Sunday will see money raised have Tyms.

:08:10. > :08:11.Originally it is the industrialisation of the city, the

:08:12. > :08:16.worker bee that helped build the city, but it has come to symbolise

:08:17. > :08:22.how resilient and strong and hard the city is. All that use will be

:08:23. > :08:27.?50, and we will try to that of as many people as possible. We have

:08:28. > :08:32.nine artists, and we have had 1700 people saying they are coming to the

:08:33. > :08:37.end of Facebook, so I don't know how we will manage it, but we will do

:08:38. > :08:43.our best. Getting back to normal is not just the next inevitable cliche

:08:44. > :08:48.in the narrative we impose on a city traumatised by an atrocity. It is an

:08:49. > :08:53.important reaction in itself. It implied. There is no uprising, no

:08:54. > :08:58.thirst for revenge, the pitchforks are not coming out, there is little

:08:59. > :09:02.relish the conflict, no excitement of a shared mission of self

:09:03. > :09:06.protection. It is just weary resignation. Even arguing about

:09:07. > :09:14.Islam is something of a minority activity. The real concern is with

:09:15. > :09:21.the news of the names now being put to the number of those who were

:09:22. > :09:27.killed on Monday. My name is Martyn Hett, I am 27 and I have a

:09:28. > :09:34.Coronation Street super fan... Real lives, like that of Martyn

:09:35. > :09:39.Hett, a vivacious 29-year-old who was about to take an extended trip

:09:40. > :09:46.to the US. He had been on TV talking about his Deirdre Barlow tattooed.

:09:47. > :09:51.Martyn 's last tweet was jeering the Ariana Grande eight concert. Or real

:09:52. > :09:57.lives like that of eight-year-old Saffie Roussos. It is easy to see

:09:58. > :10:03.why the emotions still run high. Lucy Powell was MP for Manchester

:10:04. > :10:08.Central, and again. I don't think I've given so many hugs to people as

:10:09. > :10:11.I have done over the last few days. But people are now just going back

:10:12. > :10:16.to work, most people are just getting on with life, because that's

:10:17. > :10:20.what you do? I think people are determined to do that. It is very

:10:21. > :10:24.hard to do that, particularly the closer you are to it, the people who

:10:25. > :10:27.worked that evening in the arena or the station or any of the services

:10:28. > :10:31.or people who know family and friends, of which loads of people in

:10:32. > :10:35.Manchester know of people who were there that night. So I think the

:10:36. > :10:41.closer you are to it, the harder it is to dig deep, to carry on as usual

:10:42. > :10:45.or to do the positive thing and not to be angry, but I think my sense is

:10:46. > :10:54.that most people are determined to do that in some way.

:10:55. > :10:58.Love triumphs hate, we have heard that a lot in the last few days, but

:10:59. > :11:01.the irony is we know we are really back to normal when we can start

:11:02. > :11:06.being horrible to each other again. We are not there yet. The raw grief,

:11:07. > :11:10.the sensitivity in the wake of tragedy mean that for the time

:11:11. > :11:15.being, nice is normal. I am not the only one to note that

:11:16. > :11:16.it is sad that it takes such a ghastly event to show how nice we

:11:17. > :11:32.can be. All the shrine that was instant

:11:33. > :11:36.Albert Square has been moved here to said Aarons Square, and this is the

:11:37. > :11:39.heart of Manchester's reaction to Monday's events.

:11:40. > :11:41.Earlier this evening I spoke to Andy Burnham,

:11:42. > :11:42.the newly installed mayor of Greater Manchester,

:11:43. > :11:48.about the city and the police investigation.

:11:49. > :11:53.I asked him if he was satisfied with the efforts being made.

:11:54. > :11:55.The collective effort of the public services of Greater Manchester

:11:56. > :11:56.has been incredible, particularly with regard

:11:57. > :12:00.Huge progress has been made over the last 24 hours,

:12:01. > :12:02.and I'm confident that those responsible will be hunted down

:12:03. > :12:09.One of the things on which you've commented in the past,

:12:10. > :12:11.in your previous role as opposition Shadow Home Secretary,

:12:12. > :12:14.is the Prevent programme, and whether that is fit for purpose

:12:15. > :12:24.to prevent the kind of thing we saw on Monday.

:12:25. > :12:28.Like with Northern Ireland in the 1970s and 80s,

:12:29. > :12:31.some of the policies can lead to a whole cloud of suspicion

:12:32. > :12:33.hanging over a whole community, or that's how that community can

:12:34. > :12:36.feel, and Prevent has begun to be seen in that way by some

:12:37. > :12:40.I've argued that it is in need of a review.

:12:41. > :12:42.You cannot have policies targeted just at one community

:12:43. > :12:46.without creating a sense of division and alienation.

:12:47. > :12:48.More broadly, we've really got to learn the lessons of what's

:12:49. > :12:54.come through the people of Greater Manchester this week.

:12:55. > :12:56.It's all about solidarity and togetherness.

:12:57. > :12:58.The terrorists want to divide us, they want to set one group

:12:59. > :13:03.The message that's coming out of here is that we won't let

:13:04. > :13:06.This individual who committed this unspeakable act of evil

:13:07. > :13:11.He does not represent the Muslim community

:13:12. > :13:14.of Greater Manchester in any way, shape or form.

:13:15. > :13:19.It is, of course, worrying, though, that it is not just one man.

:13:20. > :13:22.It is what police are calling a "network", potentially

:13:23. > :13:24.living in this community, operating and feeling so much hate

:13:25. > :13:41.That the individual who committed this crime grew up in this city.

:13:42. > :13:44.That's difficult, obviously, for people to hear, but it

:13:45. > :13:46.doesn't change Manchester, in my view, in any way.

:13:47. > :13:50.They will still be as openly generous and as welcoming

:13:51. > :13:56.And that's the way it will always be.

:13:57. > :13:58.Extremism has been on the rise around the world

:13:59. > :14:03.At the national level, Theresa May obviously

:14:04. > :14:06.is the Prime Minister, and she's also in the midst

:14:07. > :14:11.I wonder whether you think that this could allow

:14:12. > :14:14.what Salman Abedi did on Monday, it could have an effect on the

:14:15. > :14:21.I think it probably will change the character of the election

:14:22. > :14:27.campaign, but that for me is a secondary concern.

:14:28. > :14:30.The issue for me is responding, and responding in the right way,

:14:31. > :14:32.to the enormity of what has happened here.

:14:33. > :14:36.Let's just remember what has happened.

:14:37. > :14:38.An unspeakable act of evil committed against children and young

:14:39. > :14:44.It is absolutely right, in those circumstances,

:14:45. > :14:50.The way we are all getting information about the police

:14:51. > :14:55.If you want it, it's better to go to the American newspapers

:14:56. > :14:59.than it is to the UK, because American sources

:15:00. > :15:02.are telling their newspapers more than our sources are telling us.

:15:03. > :15:06.The New York Times tonight has pictures of the detonator

:15:07. > :15:09.of the bomb, and much more detail than the British

:15:10. > :15:19.What is your view of what is going on there?

:15:20. > :15:24.On Monday evening, when the reports were first coming through to me,

:15:25. > :15:31.I agreed with the Chief Constable and others that we would take

:15:32. > :15:33.a cautious approach to putting public information out,

:15:34. > :15:36.because we wouldn't want to get anything wrong or compromise

:15:37. > :15:37.the police investigation, and yet, the first reports

:15:38. > :15:40.were coming, seemingly, out of the United States.

:15:41. > :15:45.Obviously, you want international cooperation when it comes

:15:46. > :15:47.to sharing information, because events like this can have

:15:48. > :15:59.In fact, I made known my concerns about it to the US ambassador.

:16:00. > :16:03.It's not acceptable to me that here there is a live

:16:04. > :16:05.investigation taking place, and we cannot have information

:16:06. > :16:08.being put in the public domain that's not in the direct control

:16:09. > :16:19.of the British police and security services.

:16:20. > :16:22.One obvious thing to do is not to give it to them,

:16:23. > :16:27.They seem to be on a hotline to the authorities here.

:16:28. > :16:29.To have information put in the public domain before

:16:30. > :16:32.it was put there by people here is just wrong.

:16:33. > :16:34.The British police and security services need to be in the lead

:16:35. > :16:37.when this is a live investigation here now.

:16:38. > :16:39.I don't think anything was compromised by what they've

:16:40. > :16:41.done, but still, the principle is an important one.

:16:42. > :16:44.We are in the lead here, and that is the point I made

:16:45. > :16:56.I'm now joined by Dr Marc-Peter Fortune,

:16:57. > :16:58.the Associate Head of the Royal Manchester Children's

:16:59. > :17:07.Hospital, who oversees the intensive care department.

:17:08. > :17:15.And intensive care consultant. Andy Burnham there is just said that he

:17:16. > :17:19.thought the public services had operated well, as you would like

:17:20. > :17:24.them to do on this kind of awful occasion. Is that your view? My

:17:25. > :17:28.experience is within the hospital. If they work as well as they have

:17:29. > :17:35.worked, is quite extraordinary. People have worked efficiently,

:17:36. > :17:40.quietly, compassionately. They have been an extraordinary group of

:17:41. > :17:45.people to work with. How did things work out on the night? Presumably it

:17:46. > :17:51.was an ordinary night until 11pm? It was. We have a major incident plan

:17:52. > :17:55.for anything like this occurring, and that swung into action when the

:17:56. > :18:00.first information reached us. I was at home. I didn't come in until

:18:01. > :18:08.several hours after it had started. Part of the plan was ensuring there

:18:09. > :18:15.was a rotation of staff. Have you ever had a night like that? This has

:18:16. > :18:20.been a fairly extraordinary experience for anybody, and not one

:18:21. > :18:26.anybody would want to repeat again. Although one which I do feel very

:18:27. > :18:31.proud of my colleagues, because throughout the whole time, people

:18:32. > :18:35.have worked incredibly efficiently and carefully together. They are

:18:36. > :18:41.used to working with sick children in a children's hospital. Does this

:18:42. > :18:46.feel different? Presumably it does. Poorly and injured children normally

:18:47. > :18:50.come to us in ones or twos. When you see numbers coming in for an

:18:51. > :18:54.incident like this, and also the background horror of an incident

:18:55. > :18:57.like this changes it somewhat for you. Getting people coming through

:18:58. > :19:01.to be looked after who don't know their names really, really changes

:19:02. > :19:07.the environment you work in. Have you had a chance to speak to them,

:19:08. > :19:11.to the children, very much? Unfortunately, within intensive

:19:12. > :19:15.care, the children are largely asleep with us. I haven't had the

:19:16. > :19:20.opportunity to see anybody after waking up. How have staff coped?

:19:21. > :19:25.They have coped by getting on with the job, focusing on what is needed.

:19:26. > :19:31.They focus on the children firstly with the medicine, then the families

:19:32. > :19:35.and supporting them and keeping them informed, and they have also looked

:19:36. > :19:40.after each other. Have you had a chance to come down here and see the

:19:41. > :19:45.way the community is... No, but we felt the community in the hospital.

:19:46. > :19:49.It has been quite extraordinary. The well-wishers who have come in, the

:19:50. > :19:55.amount of food that's been donated to the staff has been extraordinary,

:19:56. > :19:58.and you felt all that around you. Thank you very much, and good luck.

:19:59. > :20:01.We are still on a terror threat level of critical -

:20:02. > :20:06.Mark Urban can't answer that question, but he has been looking

:20:07. > :20:19.at the kinds of factors that lie behind the decision.

:20:20. > :20:26.In this moment, soldiers are on the streets. Troops deployed from

:20:27. > :20:29.constabularies around the country to protect people. The security

:20:30. > :20:34.operation has become militarised, following a decision to raise the

:20:35. > :20:40.threat level are critical. Going up to critical is quite a big step, so

:20:41. > :20:46.one would imagine it is something to do with more of the idea of a

:20:47. > :20:50.network. If they don't know who this person is, it could be prudent to go

:20:51. > :20:55.to critical for several days, until they are confident this is the

:20:56. > :20:58.individual on their own who happened to be given some rudimentary

:20:59. > :21:05.training and not part of the network. Either way, it is prudent

:21:06. > :21:10.to go to critical for a short while. As measures are put into place, the

:21:11. > :21:16.clearest confirmation yet that the police and MI5 are trying to roll up

:21:17. > :21:23.the Manchester bomber's associates. This is a network we are

:21:24. > :21:26.associating. If it continues at this pace, there is activity taking place

:21:27. > :21:30.across Greater Manchester as we speak. To that end there were four

:21:31. > :21:36.raids in Manchester today, and one in Wigan. As the wider world follows

:21:37. > :21:40.up Leeds based on shared intelligence, France's Interior

:21:41. > :21:48.Minister suggested Abedi had been in Syria as well as Libya.

:21:49. > :21:51.TRANSLATION: Someone of British nationality of Libyan orange in who

:21:52. > :21:58.suddenly after a trip to Libya and then to Syria suddenly became

:21:59. > :22:06.liberalised -- radicalised and then carried out an attack. There will be

:22:07. > :22:12.more questions about why MI5 didn't assign a higher priority to Abedi,

:22:13. > :22:15.but also why Britain's intelligence partners are proving so leaky. I

:22:16. > :22:20.never like that any information is leaked. I think the fact that the US

:22:21. > :22:29.media wants to release the name first was not good. I think, in the

:22:30. > :22:32.Intel community, there is a lot of cooperation between foreign

:22:33. > :22:38.partners, Britain and the United States, and the reason that works is

:22:39. > :22:45.because we are all working on the same sheet of music. The same rules.

:22:46. > :22:49.And when somebody leaks information, that is going to hurt the

:22:50. > :22:54.cooperation. Beyond the immediate drive to roll up Abedi's network,

:22:55. > :22:59.there are questions about this - troops deployed near the symbols of

:23:00. > :23:03.British democracy and how de-escalation would be managed. What

:23:04. > :23:09.we have seen is the triggering of plans made over the past two years

:23:10. > :23:13.by intelligence professionals. Is the government exploiting it for its

:23:14. > :23:18.own political purposes? We will only know that when we see how long the

:23:19. > :23:22.troops remain on the streets. Is it up to the general election? Is it

:23:23. > :23:27.beyond? That will only become clear in the weeks to come. They are

:23:28. > :23:30.acutely aware of the danger of that, and that is why the Prime Minister's

:23:31. > :23:36.predecessors move the decision to move up and down this threat level

:23:37. > :23:43.out of the hands of ministers and into the hands of Jtac. They will be

:23:44. > :23:46.very careful not to be seen to be benefiting from this in the

:23:47. > :23:51.election. The problem is, will be election start to be affected by

:23:52. > :24:02.this if we see another attack? In raising the effect level, raids and

:24:03. > :24:08.so on, getting things back to normal could be trickier, given how people

:24:09. > :24:09.do not want the sign... Site of troops on the streets to become

:24:10. > :24:13.commonplace. Down the line from Belfast

:24:14. > :24:15.is Professor Richard English, a politics professor who has

:24:16. > :24:17.spent his career examining how terrorist attacks

:24:18. > :24:24.affect our way of life, I'm interested in what you think

:24:25. > :24:29.about the raising of the threat level. Does that bring attention to

:24:30. > :24:34.it and sends the wrong signals? Or is that a good response? Normally in

:24:35. > :24:38.these circumstances, these changes are made if there is strong evidence

:24:39. > :24:44.to suggest it is the best way of protecting the public. I think it

:24:45. > :24:47.will be a short-term response to specific intelligence. Normally

:24:48. > :24:52.these things endure only for the period when its judge to make life

:24:53. > :24:59.safer for people. I don't think it's alarmist. It's probably a pragmatic

:25:00. > :25:02.response to what seems to be a network threat at the moment in the

:25:03. > :25:08.immediate future. Just tell us, from your book, how we should respond to

:25:09. > :25:11.terrorism? What are the things that make a good response and doesn't

:25:12. > :25:18.encourage those who would do us harm to do so? The two key things are

:25:19. > :25:23.first, be proportionate in response, and not to overreact and make things

:25:24. > :25:29.worse. The second is to be realistic about what can be achieved. It's

:25:30. > :25:32.unrealistic to talk about getting rid of terrorists, of obliterating

:25:33. > :25:37.the ideology behind it. It's realistic to talk about ways of

:25:38. > :25:42.minimising the threat. There are many things we have in the UK that

:25:43. > :25:48.are more dangerous to life than terrorism, even this terrible week,

:25:49. > :25:53.and keeping it in proportion allows us to deal with it more effectively.

:25:54. > :25:58.Some of the things that have come up in your programme tonight about

:25:59. > :26:02.maintaining a resilient normality makes terrorism seem less effective

:26:03. > :26:07.as a tactic. If you make terrorism seem like it can transform things,

:26:08. > :26:13.you make it more appealing to bring about change. If you show that it

:26:14. > :26:17.will be futile in terms of central political goals, it's better. So

:26:18. > :26:21.keep it proportionate if you can. But it's very difficult not to be

:26:22. > :26:27.deeply affected by the brutal killing of 20 or more children,

:26:28. > :26:33.isn't it? What do you think of the public response as opposed to the

:26:34. > :26:37.authorities' response? It's entirely understandable that there is

:26:38. > :26:41.revulsion, shock and horror, and you have seen that in Manchester and

:26:42. > :26:46.internationally. That said, if you take a long-term view of this, you

:26:47. > :26:50.have to balance what is emotionally understandable with what is going to

:26:51. > :26:56.make terrorism less likely in the future. We need society to think

:26:57. > :27:00.about the long-term effects of demonstrating that society can

:27:01. > :27:06.endure, that we can live with this affect that is occasionally lethal.

:27:07. > :27:16.Belfast is a city that has endured this for many years, and so this is

:27:17. > :27:21.the best response. But that is difficult, given the emotions after

:27:22. > :27:26.a horror like Monday. What about media coverage of these things?

:27:27. > :27:31.After the Westminster Bridge attack, Simon Jenkins came on Newsnight and

:27:32. > :27:37.said he thought we should make less of it, because we were encouraging

:27:38. > :27:41.the phenomenon we were so hating. Let's take an example. Naming and

:27:42. > :27:46.following up, as we are about to do with Salman Abedi, looking into his

:27:47. > :27:52.background, is that something you would think we should try to avoid?

:27:53. > :27:57.First, as long as there's no way of compromising the investigation it is

:27:58. > :28:02.not particularly harmful, but I think Mr Jenkins is right that if

:28:03. > :28:06.you do cover these things, we don't want to exaggerate the nature of the

:28:07. > :28:11.threat. It's much more likely people will die in road accidents than from

:28:12. > :28:16.terrorism. The key thing is to make sure that as we discuss it we keep a

:28:17. > :28:19.sense of proportion and balance. For all of the horror that has been

:28:20. > :28:24.catastrophic for the victims, we make sure we don't make this into a

:28:25. > :28:31.bigger threat than it is, because that would make it seem like a more

:28:32. > :28:34.attractive target. If people think they can change society and politics

:28:35. > :28:38.through bombings, it's more likely we will have future terrorism. I

:28:39. > :28:43.understand the horror of this week, but we need to think about future

:28:44. > :28:48.potential victims and making them as few as possible. So discussion about

:28:49. > :28:52.it should avoid overreaction and maintain a calmness. Very fair.

:28:53. > :28:56.Thank you very much indeed. We are here because one man blew

:28:57. > :28:59.himself up on Monday, Salman Abedi. It would be nice to expunge his name

:29:00. > :29:02.from history, and not to hand him the legacy of notoriety,

:29:03. > :29:05.but there is always a need to find out about the motivations

:29:06. > :29:08.and the associates of those who seek We already know quite a bit

:29:09. > :29:12.about him, and we believe We know he has family connections

:29:13. > :29:15.to Libya, and over there, two members of his family

:29:16. > :29:17.were arrested today. John Sweeney has been

:29:18. > :29:19.trying to piece together the story of Salman Abedi,

:29:20. > :29:21.and has uncovered some Just before suicide bomber

:29:22. > :29:30.Salman Abedi struck at the Manchester Arena on Monday

:29:31. > :29:33.night, Newsnight can The authorities in Tripoli

:29:34. > :30:06.told us: The Libyan authorities said he'd

:30:07. > :30:20.been in the country very recently. That means he returned

:30:21. > :30:24.from Libya earlier this month. The Libyans also told us

:30:25. > :31:00.that their security forces had been Salman Abedi was born and bred in

:31:01. > :31:05.Manchester. This is his home in the south of the city. The question

:31:06. > :31:11.wanting Manchester today is, how can he do what he did? This man has some

:31:12. > :31:14.answers. He is a British Libyan, has known the family for 25 years and

:31:15. > :31:22.lived erected above the bomb's brother. In recent conversations

:31:23. > :31:27.with people and meetings with other friends, they are saying the guy is,

:31:28. > :31:31.something is disturbing him, you know what I mean? One I have seen

:31:32. > :31:40.him in the last few months, he didn't look, we have heard he is

:31:41. > :31:44.being alone, being naughty on the street, I can't say violent, but

:31:45. > :31:50.aggressive on the street, started fighting with people, finger signs,

:31:51. > :31:53.stuff like this. Akram is not the only person who saw a change in the

:31:54. > :31:58.22-year-old. The neighbours of Salman Abedi say that in the last

:31:59. > :32:01.couple of months at least he started behaving oddly. He would pick fights

:32:02. > :32:06.with people about where he parked his car, where he put his bins, and

:32:07. > :32:11.that is not the signature of a bomb maker. The reluctant conclusion is

:32:12. > :32:17.that Salman Abedi may have delivered the bomb, but he didn't make it.

:32:18. > :32:21.Today police launched a series of raids across greater Manchester,

:32:22. > :32:26.arresting five. Tonight a sixth suspect was arrested, a woman. They

:32:27. > :32:31.have announced they are looking for a network of people who helped the

:32:32. > :32:36.bomber. In Libya, the authorities have arrested Salman Abedi's father

:32:37. > :32:45.and his younger brother. Here, they are questioning his older brother,

:32:46. > :32:49.Ismail. We are told they raided two flats, they got the wrong one first,

:32:50. > :32:54.may be true, maybe not, and now you can hear them cutting doors and

:32:55. > :33:01.repairing the damage. The last time Britain was hit by bombs like this

:33:02. > :33:05.was an 7/7. The evidence is growing that the police and security

:33:06. > :33:09.services may have missed warnings about Salman Abedi. A community

:33:10. > :33:13.worker has told the BBC that the authorities were warned about his

:33:14. > :33:19.extremism several years ago. They reportedly said he was supporting

:33:20. > :33:25.terrorism, and he had expressed the view being a suicide bomber was OK.

:33:26. > :33:30.An incident at Salman Abedi's local mosque in Didsbury is revealing.

:33:31. > :33:38.Worshippers told Akram that after the imam criticised Islamic State,

:33:39. > :33:45.Abedi reacted. He approached the imam and gave him a killer look, a

:33:46. > :33:49.really bad luck in his eyes, look. It was threatening look, let's put

:33:50. > :33:53.it this. But did the local Muslim community do their utmost to warm

:33:54. > :33:58.the authorities about Abedi? Today the Didsbury mosque held a press

:33:59. > :34:02.conference, but they told us very little about the man who had been

:34:03. > :34:09.part of their community or even that he had worshipped there. Did Salman

:34:10. > :34:16.Abedi pray here, so? Did he pray here? He did attend this mosque? So,

:34:17. > :34:20.some questions for the security services and the police but also

:34:21. > :34:25.some questions for the people who run this mosque. The first one of

:34:26. > :34:31.which, did Salman Abedi Reijo, and the answer to that is we are not

:34:32. > :34:35.answering any questions. Some people might say that's not good enough.

:34:36. > :34:37.After the attack on Westminster Bridge this March, it became obvious

:34:38. > :35:00.that Callard -- Khalid Massoud was a lone wolf. Not

:35:01. > :35:05.enough information was being passed on, and this was not averted. There

:35:06. > :35:10.have been more arrests since John put that report together. There has

:35:11. > :35:16.been a seventh. The latest news just coming in on that is in Nuneaton.

:35:17. > :35:18.I was actually by chance talking to a Libyan living

:35:19. > :35:22.He was in his 20s, and I asked if he had been exposed

:35:23. > :35:27.I have to say that he could not have been more contemptuous of those

:35:28. > :35:31.He thought it was much easier for speakers of Arabic,

:35:32. > :35:33.like himself, to understand how stupid they sound when

:35:34. > :35:46.Let's finish the programme by reflecting on some of these issues.

:35:47. > :35:49.Well, with me now is Furqan Naeem, community organiser

:35:50. > :35:52.That's a group that tries to help those from disadvantaged communities

:35:53. > :35:56.Also Helen Pidd, northern editor of the Guardian.

:35:57. > :36:05.Good evening to you both. How is the Muslim community in magister

:36:06. > :36:14.reacting, how are they feeling over this so far? I think every single

:36:15. > :36:18.citizen in Manchester, it is shock and condemnation of what has

:36:19. > :36:21.happened, but with the Muslim community, there is another feeling

:36:22. > :36:25.they are going through, the shock and horror that has befallen our

:36:26. > :36:28.city, but the other thing is that this person has done this in the

:36:29. > :36:33.name of our religion and try to hijack it using the name of Islam,

:36:34. > :36:36.so that is a different emotion. I have been struck today just how

:36:37. > :36:45.little talk about Islam there is any kind. It's as though, why go on

:36:46. > :36:49.about it? I think there is something about the city of Manchester. There

:36:50. > :36:54.is a resilience that we are all together. When things go wrong, we

:36:55. > :36:58.held each other out, and it is not like other northern towns and cities

:36:59. > :37:02.where you have segregated communities, Blackburn, Oldham.

:37:03. > :37:06.People get on with each other here, Semedo that is why there has perhaps

:37:07. > :37:09.not been as much talk about the Islamic issue, because people feel

:37:10. > :37:14.integrated. Does that feel true to you? Kind of, but you have to

:37:15. > :37:19.remember that the centre of Manchester is different from the

:37:20. > :37:24.outlying boroughs. The Ukip voters are not in Manchester Central where

:37:25. > :37:28.the glitzy skyscrapers are, they are elsewhere. How much hate and chatter

:37:29. > :37:32.is there about, we need to do something about Islam? Is there a

:37:33. > :37:37.lot of that? I have to say, I haven't heard it yet. I think people

:37:38. > :37:41.are just reeling, and we haven't had a chance to take stock of what

:37:42. > :37:46.happened. It has moved quickly, just 48 hours ago. We have had the

:37:47. > :37:50.seventh arrest, and the net is widening, this latest arrest was in

:37:51. > :37:54.Warwickshire, Nuneaton. I never thought I would be spending my

:37:55. > :37:58.afternoon outside a flat in the gay village that is what team had blown

:37:59. > :38:04.the door open potentially looking for a bomb factory. Yes, it is 48

:38:05. > :38:11.hours, things have moved so fast, and families still have bereavement

:38:12. > :38:15.and things like that, that is so important. How many Muslim

:38:16. > :38:19.communities are there in magister? There are quite a few Libyans here.

:38:20. > :38:25.Do they mix, delay know each other, are they all separate? I think it is

:38:26. > :38:33.right mixed community, but even with the Muslim communities, they are all

:38:34. > :38:36.quite mixed. The mosque in Didsbury in South Manchester, they have to

:38:37. > :38:40.open up their doors because the community around them is very mixed

:38:41. > :38:45.and open, and I think generally, the Muslim community is quite integrated

:38:46. > :38:51.and feels quite a part of the make of Manchester, and that is what we

:38:52. > :38:55.have seen over past two days. But Helen, we do know that there have

:38:56. > :38:59.been seven arrests, and we know that the police are looking for and

:39:00. > :39:03.assuming, working on the assumption that it is a network, and that is

:39:04. > :39:09.any adjusting word, and network as opposed to a team. And it isn't just

:39:10. > :39:15.a little gang, is it? Something a little more sinister. And organised,

:39:16. > :39:19.and from this April we have spoken to who knew the guy who blew himself

:39:20. > :39:22.up, they say he wasn't a particularly smart guy, wouldn't

:39:23. > :39:27.have had the know-how to do this by himself. So as the pieces of the

:39:28. > :39:29.jigsaw are being filled in, it is adding to the sense of unease and

:39:30. > :39:36.disquiet about what might happen next. And I think on that, what we

:39:37. > :39:40.saw was a calculated attack that had happened, and I think there is a

:39:41. > :39:44.network probably out there as it is, because he has not acted alone, and

:39:45. > :39:48.now is the time for the Muslim community to stand up and build

:39:49. > :39:50.trust with the authorities. We have got to understand that the

:39:51. > :39:59.authorities are here to look after us. We had a guest from the Muslim

:40:00. > :40:03.women's network yesterday who had quite harsh words for elements of

:40:04. > :40:09.the community who would not think of themselves as jihadists, but she

:40:10. > :40:12.thought were quietly complicit in always criticising anything the

:40:13. > :40:19.Government did to try to shut down the more disruptive element. I think

:40:20. > :40:23.it is a two-way thing. Amongst the Muslim community there has to be

:40:24. > :40:27.more trust of the Government, of the authorities, of the security

:40:28. > :40:30.services. We have to work together, and the Muslim community now has to

:40:31. > :40:36.step up, and this is an opportunity to showcase what they are about and

:40:37. > :40:42.what they can do. A quick one, Helen, have you spent much time down

:40:43. > :40:46.here in your Guardian beat? I have to say, as a journalist, you try to

:40:47. > :40:50.remain neutral and calm, but I was glad I was wearing sunglasses today

:40:51. > :40:54.when I was reading some of the tributes from small children. His

:40:55. > :40:58.defiance there, there is one of them saying, you can't scare us. But I

:40:59. > :41:03.think a lot of people are scared and very sad. Thank you very much. The

:41:04. > :41:07.true spirit of Manchester will shines through.

:41:08. > :41:11.We leave you with the pupils of Chetham's School of Music,

:41:12. > :41:13.which sits in the shadow of the Manchester Arena,

:41:14. > :41:16.who held their own vigil for the victims of the attack

:41:17. > :41:21.# So I'll start a revolution from my bed

:41:22. > :41:24.# Cos you said the brains I had went to my head

:41:25. > :41:30.# Step outside, summertime's in bloom

:41:31. > :42:32.# You ain't ever gonna burn my heart out

:42:33. > :42:33.Hello there. 26 degrees today was the high, but it could get