:00:08. > :00:09.There's one day of campaigning left in an election dominated by two
:00:10. > :00:13.terrorist attacks in the space of two weeks.
:00:14. > :00:17.We now know the identity of all three London Bridge killers.
:00:18. > :00:28.What does who they were tell us about how well protected we are?
:00:29. > :00:33.In the case of Youssef Zaghba there are questions about why if the
:00:34. > :00:38.Italian authorities were worried about him going to Syria to fight
:00:39. > :00:40.that the information was not passed on and if it was, it was not dealt
:00:41. > :00:42.with more efficiently. We hear from a former head
:00:43. > :00:45.of Prevent at the Foreign office about the Government's
:00:46. > :00:56.anti-radicalisation strategy. Undoubtedly there is a branding
:00:57. > :01:00.problem, the brand of the Prevent strategy has become tarnished. We've
:01:01. > :01:02.had cases where teachers or those working in the NHS are not willing
:01:03. > :01:04.to be involved. Tonight, Theresa May says
:01:05. > :01:05.she will consider changing human rights law to restrict the freedom
:01:06. > :01:15.of movement of suspected militants. If our human rights laws stop us
:01:16. > :01:16.doing it we will change them so we can do it.
:01:17. > :01:19.We put that to the Shadow Attorney General and a former
:01:20. > :01:25.The polls have shown a race that's been tightening.
:01:26. > :01:29.The seat in the north of this town is one that the Labour
:01:30. > :01:31.and Conservative parties both really want to win.
:01:32. > :01:37.I think it's a definite choice for people to choose either
:01:38. > :01:42.I mean, the old way has not been doing too well.
:01:43. > :01:52.Stephen Bush looks at who and what shaped his politics as a young man.
:01:53. > :01:55.And the Home Secretary had to reply to attacks on the police, like this
:01:56. > :02:00.If this Government can find time and money, apparently,
:02:01. > :02:03.to appease the police, how is it they have not found
:02:04. > :02:05.the time to do anything to bring about democratic control
:02:06. > :02:23.We begin tonight's extended programme here in London on the day
:02:24. > :02:26.we learned the name of the third London Bridge attacker.
:02:27. > :02:29.He was Youssef Zaghba, an Italian national of Moroccan
:02:30. > :02:38.His background is different again to the two killers we already know.
:02:39. > :02:40.As the Prime Minister announces tonight that a Tory government
:02:41. > :02:43.would consider amending human rights law to restrict the freedom
:02:44. > :02:47.and movement of terrorist suspects, we examine the depth and breadth
:02:48. > :02:50.of the terror threat and how to counter it.
:02:51. > :02:53.First, with what we know so far about the attackers,
:02:54. > :02:59.here's our Diplomatic Editor, Mark Urban.
:03:00. > :03:01.For the police and MI5, the three perpetrators
:03:02. > :03:04.are worthy of study, not least in understanding how
:03:05. > :03:11.Today the authorities confirmed the identity of Youssef Zaghba.
:03:12. > :03:13.Of Moroccan and Italian parentage, he lived in Bologna before
:03:14. > :03:32.TRANSLATION: He went to London to go back. Here there is not anything, he
:03:33. > :03:36.went to work. At least that is what he said. In March of last year the
:03:37. > :03:40.Italian authorities had stopped Youssef Zaghba using a one-way air
:03:41. > :03:45.to Turkey and they believed he was about to join the jihad in Syria.
:03:46. > :03:51.The Italian said that they told Britain. The UK authorities say that
:03:52. > :03:57.he was not a subject of interest. We see this a lot where one agency has
:03:58. > :04:02.the intelligence and it says we passed it to our partner agency but
:04:03. > :04:06.obviously a lot of these organisations rely on liaison
:04:07. > :04:12.officers to do this. And quite often sometimes the liaison officer will
:04:13. > :04:18.not have done it all it has not been put on the right system. And
:04:19. > :04:22.troubling new facts have emerged about Khuram Butt also. Pakistani
:04:23. > :04:25.born but raised in this country, he had long associated with the
:04:26. > :04:29.Al-Muhajiroun militant group featuring in a documentary on them.
:04:30. > :04:44.But it also became clear today that he had threatened summer Hassan last
:04:45. > :04:47.July in a park. He you work for Quilliam, used by Muslims and
:04:48. > :04:53.government money to work against Muslims. How dare you come to a
:04:54. > :05:01.Muslim event, you are an apostate. All very aggressive. And very
:05:02. > :05:04.threatening. Because in the mind of extremists, if you declare a Muslim
:05:05. > :05:08.and nonbeliever then there is an automatic death penalty in their
:05:09. > :05:15.mind. It is a well-known technique of intimidation. A scuffle resulted
:05:16. > :05:19.and Khuram Butt received a police caution after Doctor Hassan reported
:05:20. > :05:26.him. I said in my professional judgment he is part of the network
:05:27. > :05:32.which is openly pro-Islamic state in the UK. And the threat to national
:05:33. > :05:35.security. But -- Khuram Butt had been the subject of interest but his
:05:36. > :05:40.status had been downgraded because it was not thought to be involved in
:05:41. > :05:44.any active plots. The type of judgment that MI5 guy monitoring
:05:45. > :05:48.3000 suspects, must constantly make. Some of these people come from
:05:49. > :05:52.backgrounds where they had long-standing patterns of
:05:53. > :05:58.Association with radical networks, a history of radical activism. One of
:05:59. > :06:01.the individuals in this plot, Khuram Butt for example, fits into bad
:06:02. > :06:05.character and personality type. But in other cases people come from a
:06:06. > :06:10.completely fresh background without ever having been known to the
:06:11. > :06:14.authorities. The third London Bridge killer, Rachid Redouane, fits into
:06:15. > :06:20.that last category. He was not on the radar. Libyan and Moroccan, 30
:06:21. > :06:24.he was the oldest of group. This afternoon police raided this address
:06:25. > :06:28.in Ilford in east London. They remove some items, part of the
:06:29. > :06:32.search to map the relationship of the suspects with one another and
:06:33. > :06:36.the wider militant network in the capital. Three men with quite
:06:37. > :06:42.different backgrounds. Inevitably some of the questions in this
:06:43. > :06:46.investigation will become central to planning how to prevent similar
:06:47. > :06:51.actions in the future. How did they meet if it was not online or at a
:06:52. > :06:55.mosque. What was the basis of the relationship between the men. And
:06:56. > :07:01.when exactly did they form the intention for this joint enterprise
:07:02. > :07:05.of murder on London Bridge. Certainly it is plausible and likely
:07:06. > :07:09.that an attack of this kind could be put together in a matter of hours
:07:10. > :07:15.because it uses everyday items, a rented van, knives are no sense of
:07:16. > :07:19.building an explosive device or doing something that would require a
:07:20. > :07:25.lot of planning and reconnaissance. This is very instantaneous and easy,
:07:26. > :07:28.a dumbed down form of terrorism. Those are now investigate and would
:07:29. > :07:33.try to stop another attack has found a disparate group of fanatics armed
:07:34. > :07:34.with everyday objects. It is a fearsome challenge for anyone to
:07:35. > :07:36.stop. Over the past few weeks,
:07:37. > :07:39.there have been repeated questions around the Government's Prevent
:07:40. > :07:41.strategy - designed to stop Our reporter Richard Watson has been
:07:42. > :07:54.speaking to a former head This is a time of difficult
:07:55. > :08:02.questions for the police and MI5. Absolutely. The Italian attacker was
:08:03. > :08:06.on the radar in Italy and so the focus will be what specific
:08:07. > :08:11.information was given to British authorities. We know from yesterday
:08:12. > :08:15.that the first attacker to be identified, Khuram Butt, was on the
:08:16. > :08:20.radar as well. He was investigated themes and even featured in a
:08:21. > :08:23.Channel 4 documentary. So he had strong links with Al-Muhajiroun. In
:08:24. > :08:30.a rare interview I spoke to the former head of the Prevent strategy,
:08:31. > :08:33.a man called Arthur Snell and he spent his career in government
:08:34. > :08:34.counter terrorism circles. This is what he said.
:08:35. > :08:38.I think, you know, that situation, somebody who has, as you say,
:08:39. > :08:41.has appeared in a TV documentary almost sort of celebrating his own
:08:42. > :08:44.kind of hardline views and hardline status.
:08:45. > :08:48.But I would go back to the point that you've got 500 active
:08:49. > :08:52.investigations, 3000 people being looked at.
:08:53. > :08:57.Now, in the case of Khuram Butt, what we must assume is the police
:08:58. > :09:00.took a look at him, and the police and other authorities drew
:09:01. > :09:02.a conclusion at that time that he wasn't planning
:09:03. > :09:18.What does this say about prevent? Most people accept there was some
:09:19. > :09:23.serious problems in the early days of the Prevent strategy. There was a
:09:24. > :09:28.lot of money around, and in some cases money was given to people with
:09:29. > :09:32.ultraconservative views quite inappropriately. I spoke to Arthur
:09:33. > :09:35.Snell and he accepts the argument but says beyond that the core
:09:36. > :09:37.activity of the Prevent strategy needs to continue.
:09:38. > :09:39.Undoubtedly a branding problem, you know.
:09:40. > :09:42.The brand of Prevent has become tarnished for various reasons.
:09:43. > :09:44.We've seen cases where, for example, teachers or people working
:09:45. > :09:47.in the NHS are very unwilling to be involved.
:09:48. > :09:50.But if we ask, what is the point of Prevent?
:09:51. > :09:53.The point of Prevent is to stop people from becoming
:09:54. > :09:55.terrorists in the first place, to address the underlying
:09:56. > :09:57.causes that drag people into terrorist activity.
:09:58. > :09:59.That is an important activity for the Government,
:10:00. > :10:02.and it has never been more important than the time we are in now.
:10:03. > :10:17.If Prevent needs to be rebranded, I don't have any problem with that.
:10:18. > :10:24.Is there an issue now of the direction of travel of the
:10:25. > :10:30.government anti-terrorism strategy? Get them early on ordeal -- ordeal
:10:31. > :10:34.with extremists? This has been under debate for more than a decade, do
:10:35. > :10:41.you focus just on violent extremists or do bogus as well on the so-called
:10:42. > :10:43.non-violent extremists, people with ultraconservative views which may be
:10:44. > :10:49.unpalatable but do not breach the law. That question is very tricky.
:10:50. > :10:53.The live music seems to be moving towards tackling extremism now,
:10:54. > :10:58.non-violent extremism but there are risks to that. If you effectively
:10:59. > :11:02.alienate a large section of your Muslim population then the damage
:11:03. > :11:05.the flow of community intelligence and so some people think you need to
:11:06. > :11:12.look more structured questions such as how to give these young people
:11:13. > :11:16.avenues to success so that they do not otherwise have those. But
:11:17. > :11:18.critics could say that could be a 20 year plan.
:11:19. > :11:20.Let's drill down now into one question -
:11:21. > :11:22.how should terrorists who fit the profile of Kaurem Butt,
:11:23. > :11:25.a man known to the authorities, who could be said to be hiding
:11:26. > :11:37.As we now know, Khuram Butt was on the radar of the security
:11:38. > :11:41.services well in advance of the London Bridge attack,
:11:42. > :11:45.As we now know, Khuram Butt was on the radar of the security
:11:46. > :11:47.but was still able to carry out his murderous rampage.
:11:48. > :11:49.So, what type of reform should we be looking
:11:50. > :11:52.at across a range of areas to prevent known troublemakers
:11:53. > :11:53.from planning and executing further deadly attacks?
:11:54. > :12:00.We asked four experts for their thoughts.
:12:01. > :12:03.As Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation throughout
:12:04. > :12:06.the period of control orders, I saw how effective they were.
:12:07. > :12:08.They relocated people from the people with
:12:09. > :12:14.They put controls on their use of computers and mobile telephony,
:12:15. > :12:18.they enabled the authorities to know exactly what they were doing.
:12:19. > :12:22.They worked, and I believe they saved many lives.
:12:23. > :12:26.Khuram Butt should have been subject to something like a control order.
:12:27. > :12:29.If he'd been under a control order, he would not have done
:12:30. > :12:36.what he did, and probably the others wouldn't, either.
:12:37. > :12:38.We know that at least one of the London Bridge attackers had
:12:39. > :12:43.been watching extremist videos on YouTube, and, you know,
:12:44. > :12:46.this follows so many concerns about the way in which it's
:12:47. > :12:49.incredibly easy to access content about how to make a nail bomb,
:12:50. > :12:53.how to commit an attack, it's so easy to access that content
:12:54. > :13:00.The US tech companies have got to start taking action.
:13:01. > :13:03.That means aggressively and proactively taking down content,
:13:04. > :13:05.and it means hiring enough people that they can respond to complaints
:13:06. > :13:17.The threat that we are facing here is low-tech terrorism.
:13:18. > :13:20.It's a bunch of guys in someone's front room making a plot,
:13:21. > :13:23.arming themselves with kitchen knives and then going on the street
:13:24. > :13:28.We mustn't forget that the 20/7 attackers were identified
:13:29. > :13:31.by a community officer who dealt with a simple dispute
:13:32. > :13:32.on Oxford Street that led to their identification
:13:33. > :13:39.And that is the value of community police officers.
:13:40. > :13:46.And they're the ones suffering from these cuts.
:13:47. > :13:49.As a community organiser, I feel that we need a third option.
:13:50. > :13:52.One that can be used by families and communities to engage
:13:53. > :13:54.with people who are vulnerable to radicalisation, before a formal
:13:55. > :13:58.However, the current political climate doesn't allow for that
:13:59. > :14:01.Also, we need the reassurance that information and intelligence
:14:02. > :14:16.provided by communities will be taken seriously and be acted upon.
:14:17. > :14:18.Let's pick up on one of those points there -
:14:19. > :14:21.do the authorities have the powers they need to tackle extremism?
:14:22. > :14:24.It would appear that Theresa May, a former Home Secretary,
:14:25. > :14:30.At a rally tonight, she indicated she would be prepared to change some
:14:31. > :14:40.human rights laws to bear down harder on the terror threat.
:14:41. > :14:42.I mean making it easier for the authorities to deport
:14:43. > :14:45.foreign terrorist suspects back to their own country.
:14:46. > :14:48.And I mean doing more to restrict the freedom of movement of terrorist
:14:49. > :14:51.suspects when we have enough evidence to know they are a threat,
:14:52. > :15:03.but not enough evidence to prosecute them in full import.
:15:04. > :15:07.And if our human rights laws stop us from doing it,
:15:08. > :15:10.we'll change the laws so we can do it.
:15:11. > :15:14.We did ask to speak to the Government tonight,
:15:15. > :15:17.Joining me now - for Labour, Shami Chakrabarti,
:15:18. > :15:19.the Shadow Attorney General, and Dominic Grieve, the former
:15:20. > :15:21.Conservative Attorney General and Chair of the Intelligence
:15:22. > :15:31.Good evening to both of you. Shami Chakrabarti, you could be Attorney
:15:32. > :15:36.General in two days' time if the authorities came to you and said, we
:15:37. > :15:40.need to make an alteration to the human rights law so that we can
:15:41. > :15:45.exclude more easily or crack down on them, would you deny it? Our
:15:46. > :15:52.commitment is to deal with terror suspects within the rule of law,
:15:53. > :15:56.including the human rights. It is interesting, this is a familiar knee
:15:57. > :16:01.jerk of Theresa May that we have heard before. A few years ago she
:16:02. > :16:06.was talking about caps. Now she has gone for an anti-human rights dog
:16:07. > :16:10.whistle. A few days earlier when she was standing in Downing Street, she
:16:11. > :16:15.said that terrorists are against human rights and we are going to
:16:16. > :16:19.protect our liberal society. There is no detail from Theresa May this
:16:20. > :16:26.evening. You are confident that the Human Rights Act is sufficient to
:16:27. > :16:30.the task? We will always listen to whatever the security agencies say
:16:31. > :16:35.that they need. But we are confident that we can provide any new powers
:16:36. > :16:38.that are truly necessary and proportionate within the human
:16:39. > :16:42.rights framework and within the rule of law. Clearly something is not
:16:43. > :16:48.working. You agree that the atmosphere has changed, two terror
:16:49. > :16:51.attacks in two weeks proceeded by Westminster, it is a different
:16:52. > :16:55.atmosphere and different climate. People want to know that everything
:16:56. > :16:59.in the Government's armoury is being used. Perhaps that armoury isn't
:17:00. > :17:03.right? We are concerned about the armoury, our biggest concern is
:17:04. > :17:06.about resources. Everything I've heard from your clips this evening
:17:07. > :17:10.and everything that I've heard from the agencies themselves in recent
:17:11. > :17:15.weeks suggests that cuts for example in the number of police officers,
:17:16. > :17:24.cuts to the Borders agency, austerity, it is a potential problem
:17:25. > :17:26.and we are committed to making that the priority. You have a situation
:17:27. > :17:30.where you have heard Lord Carlile say tonight that actually control
:17:31. > :17:33.orders are what we need back. Lord Carlile and I have debated control
:17:34. > :17:39.orders on your programme over the years and we have disagreed. If
:17:40. > :17:43.there is a need for any new powers to monitor suspects who are not yet
:17:44. > :17:50.able to be charged, we are convinced that could be dealt with within the
:17:51. > :17:54.criminal justice system and not as an extra justice system measure like
:17:55. > :17:58.control orders. We have said, Jeremy Corbyn has said even this evening
:17:59. > :18:05.that he will look at the law. But the primary focus that we are making
:18:06. > :18:09.is resources. If you have an extremist in your midst, you know
:18:10. > :18:12.for example somebody like Khuram Butt is in your midst but there is
:18:13. > :18:15.not enough to prosecute him but actually you want to detain and
:18:16. > :18:19.restrain him in some weight and you don't have the powers to do so just
:18:20. > :18:23.now, but keeping him off the streets is the main thing to do, you would
:18:24. > :18:27.look at a new law? We will always keep the law under review. At the
:18:28. > :18:36.moment we are convinced that with additional weasels is we can deal
:18:37. > :18:38.with these people within the rule of law. Is Shami Chakrabarti right,
:18:39. > :18:42.there is no need for any movement on the Human Rights Act? Certainly the
:18:43. > :18:45.architecture that we have of human rights allows the derogation. There
:18:46. > :18:49.is no difficulty derogating if you can show it is necessary and
:18:50. > :18:53.proportionate to do so. The Prime Minister is therefore absolutely
:18:54. > :18:57.right when she says that within the structures of our easy HR
:18:58. > :19:01.obligations, we could, if necessary, for example, if we felt it was
:19:02. > :19:05.vital, detain people without trial. Whether it would be a good thing to
:19:06. > :19:10.do it or not is another matter, but the powers do exist to allow that to
:19:11. > :19:13.happen. She is actually not saying anything new tonight at all, that is
:19:14. > :19:19.not the way she is putting it out first book that is not what I
:19:20. > :19:23.understood her today, and I was present when she spoke. She was
:19:24. > :19:28.going to review the legal framework and see what areas it would be
:19:29. > :19:31.improved, that is compatible with our human rights obligations and
:19:32. > :19:35.from my point of view it is a common-sense thing to do. It seems
:19:36. > :19:39.we are in familiar territory in one way. Actually when she was talking
:19:40. > :19:43.about before about social care, would that all would then not be a
:19:44. > :19:54.cap, that was the same story just a different form of language. You seem
:19:55. > :19:57.to be saying the same about this. This is clearly what you are saying
:19:58. > :20:00.tonight. We need to alter the law in some way to increase the possibility
:20:01. > :20:03.of fibre restraint or exclusion, we will look at that. Dominic Grieve,
:20:04. > :20:05.you or a lawyer, you know she was saying something different. I
:20:06. > :20:09.understood she wanted to review the law in terms of restricting people's
:20:10. > :20:12.liberty if there was evidence which could not be produced in court but
:20:13. > :20:17.there was intelligence evidence. Yes, it can be looked at further.
:20:18. > :20:24.80p, which we have at the moment, could be changed or improved. There
:20:25. > :20:28.are only seven restrictions at the moment. History has shown that they
:20:29. > :20:32.and control orders may have a limited use. That is not a reason
:20:33. > :20:37.why you shouldn't go away and look at them again. That is a sensible
:20:38. > :20:42.reaction by Government, and not one with which I have any difficulty.
:20:43. > :20:47.You are saying two days before an election, you have been on this
:20:48. > :20:50.programme many times arguing it against 90 days, arguing against 42
:20:51. > :20:55.days, arguing against control orders. You have always been the one
:20:56. > :21:00.to say that the law as it exists just now is sufficient to the tasks.
:21:01. > :21:04.You must be crossing your fingers. Not at all, I am always want to
:21:05. > :21:13.argue against gimmicks, absolutely. And given three does creep in
:21:14. > :21:16.because people feel that they have got to do something. But in fairness
:21:17. > :21:20.to the Prime Minister, if you listen to what she had to say this evening,
:21:21. > :21:25.reviewing how T -- Howell Tpims operate... She was saying
:21:26. > :21:29.amendments. Amending Tpims is perfectly reasonable, it can be done
:21:30. > :21:32.within the framework of our human rights obligations without any real
:21:33. > :21:37.difficulty of the situation warrants it. I don't have a problem with
:21:38. > :21:41.that. Clearly the detail will have to be looked that, but she is not
:21:42. > :21:45.wrong to raise such an issue. Two days before an election?
:21:46. > :21:49.Unfortunately these events have taken place four days before an
:21:50. > :21:53.election, we have to live with the consequences of that. We can't just
:21:54. > :21:56.ignore it and say, we will come back to it on Saturday. That is
:21:57. > :21:58.unreasonable for the opposition by Government. Thank you both very
:21:59. > :21:59.much. Hello, good evening
:22:00. > :22:03.from Walsall's New Art Gallery, here in the crucial political
:22:04. > :22:06.battleground of the West Midlands. The second last day
:22:07. > :22:08.of the election campaign is over. We'll hear the views
:22:09. > :22:11.of our own focus group in Walsall, and we'll have a profile
:22:12. > :22:13.of Jeremy Corbyn, the man who is Well, because this may prove to be
:22:14. > :22:18.an important signifier of the direction Britain is taking
:22:19. > :22:20.on Thursday night. That's because one way of describing
:22:21. > :22:23.the traditional election map of England is that Labour
:22:24. > :22:25.own the north, the Tories own the south, and the Midlands
:22:26. > :22:28.is a swing region that holds the balance of power
:22:29. > :22:30.and decides who runs A caricature, but one
:22:31. > :22:34.with a grain of truth in it. Now, that old order -
:22:35. > :22:36.that election map may be challenged on Thursday,
:22:37. > :22:38.but it is still interesting to look at this campaign
:22:39. > :22:40.from the perspective of a West Midlands marginal seat,
:22:41. > :22:43.and I'm sitting in one here. Walsall North is number 23
:22:44. > :22:45.on the Tory target list. It is one the party needs to win
:22:46. > :22:49.if Theresa May is to get a substantial majority,
:22:50. > :22:51.the kind of majority that justifies her decision
:22:52. > :22:53.to call the election. It is also the kind of seat
:22:54. > :22:56.she wants to win, because she wants to reach out to the parts of Britain
:22:57. > :23:00.the Tories have struggled to reach - places like this, with
:23:01. > :23:02.the characteristic industrial Here in Walsall, they've got a dry
:23:03. > :23:05.saying about the place. But international competition has
:23:06. > :23:13.made life more difficult and it is still one of the more
:23:14. > :23:16.deprived constituencies Today, nearly a fifth
:23:17. > :23:21.of the constituents receive some That's almost double
:23:22. > :23:27.the national average. David Winnick is up early
:23:28. > :23:35.looking for Labour votes. This has long been
:23:36. > :23:40.natural Labour territory. David Winnick captured
:23:41. > :23:42.the seat for Labour in 1979. But the old order is under
:23:43. > :23:48.challenge, and he is now defending Two years ago, he got 39% of
:23:49. > :23:57.the vote to the Conservatives' 33%. But this seat is one where Ukip's
:23:58. > :24:00.strong showing last time can shape If just half of those
:24:01. > :24:09.defect to the Tories, That's the outcome that
:24:10. > :24:14.Theresa May was hoping So, is that what will
:24:15. > :24:23.happen on Thursday? Well, we'll come back
:24:24. > :24:25.to Walsall in a minute. But, the penultimate day
:24:26. > :24:27.of the campaign is over. Nick Watt, our Political Editor,
:24:28. > :24:30.has been notching up the miles during the last few weeks,
:24:31. > :24:39.and is with me now. Almost there, Nick! What is the
:24:40. > :24:43.feeling, particularly in the Tory camp at the moment? There are some
:24:44. > :24:48.pretty nervous and some pretty angry ministers. One minister told me,
:24:49. > :24:52.Theresa May has had the worst imaginable campaign and her stock
:24:53. > :24:57.has absolutely plummeted. There is furious about U-turn on social care,
:24:58. > :25:01.and also the less than sort of Sunni approach of this Tory campaign. A
:25:02. > :25:06.minister told me, this whole campaign has gone sour. They think
:25:07. > :25:12.they are going to win, but not win as emphatically as they had hoped,
:25:13. > :25:14.and the blame is being laid squarely at the door of the Prime Minister's
:25:15. > :25:19.joint chiefs of staff, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill. We all here in
:25:20. > :25:22.Walsall, I have been up in the North East looking at another seat that
:25:23. > :25:27.the Tories would dearly love to win. Here is my report.
:25:28. > :25:29.At last, our strong and stable Prime Minister has located...
:25:30. > :25:33.Theresa May briefly took up residence in a sturdy stable to
:25:34. > :25:37.deliver her main campaign message of the day.
:25:38. > :25:40.The clear choice for people is, who do they trust to get the best
:25:41. > :25:44.Who has got the will, who has got the plan
:25:45. > :25:47.for those Brexit negotiations, because they start only 11 days
:25:48. > :25:50.after polling day, and they are the basis of everything else.
:25:51. > :25:52.A big focus on Brexit could only mean the
:25:53. > :26:05.We were told at the beginning of this campaign that
:26:06. > :26:07.it would be a presidential tour by Theresa May,
:26:08. > :26:09.with you only playing a
:26:10. > :26:14.Now, with 48 hours to go and after a faltering campaign by
:26:15. > :26:16.Theresa May, you are playing a prominent role.
:26:17. > :26:18.So is the Prime Minister is so alarmed by the
:26:19. > :26:21.success of Jeremy Corbyn, the man you described as a mugwump,
:26:22. > :26:25.I think wholly accurately, by the way!
:26:26. > :26:30.Is she hoping that the Boris Johnson Heineken effect is going to reach
:26:31. > :26:35.out to voters in parts of this country where she is struggling?
:26:36. > :26:39.Nick, I have been engaging with you, with the voters in this country,
:26:40. > :26:45.But the point is, there is one choice for people on Thursday.
:26:46. > :26:51.It boils down to a clear and simple choice between a
:26:52. > :26:53.strong and determined woman in the form of Theresa May,
:26:54. > :27:01.who in my view has a fantastic plan for Brexit, and
:27:02. > :27:05.understands we need to take this country forward.
:27:06. > :27:07.And Jeremy Corbyn, who is at very best weak and
:27:08. > :27:15.So Boris Johnson travelled to the North East seat of
:27:16. > :27:20.To deliver an impassioned speech about the dangers
:27:21. > :27:25.A month ago, Newsnight launched its general election
:27:26. > :27:33.Corbyn-mania had yet to sweep into one working men's club.
:27:34. > :27:46.He's stronger, he has come back and he is
:27:47. > :27:51.So he is coming round, he has two days to go.
:27:52. > :28:02.So, Danny, I saw you a month ago at the beginning of the campaign. I'm
:28:03. > :28:07.wondering, one month on, have you changed your views at all? No,
:28:08. > :28:12.definitely not. It's nice to see you again. It's nice for you to come and
:28:13. > :28:16.see us for the feedback. But definitely not. Theresa May had high
:28:17. > :28:20.hopes of capturing this rock-solid Labour seat at the start of the
:28:21. > :28:25.election campaign. One month on there are some signs that Jeremy
:28:26. > :28:28.Corbyn's successful campaign is paying dividends. But there are
:28:29. > :28:36.natural supporters who simply will not support him. Over in the rule
:28:37. > :28:40.all Tory supporting area of the constituency, there is support for
:28:41. > :28:46.Theresa May, although her campaign slips have been noticed. What do you
:28:47. > :28:53.think of Theresa May's campaign? Well, she's basically spoilt it when
:28:54. > :28:58.she did the U-turn. She was going all right until Ben. Well, I did
:28:59. > :29:03.like Theresa May very much. But I think she's been very indecisive
:29:04. > :29:12.over a lot of things. I just don't know. The Prime Minister of the
:29:13. > :29:17.United Kingdom, Theresa May. The feel of Theresa May's campaign early
:29:18. > :29:19.in the day gave way to a more energetic rally tonight in the
:29:20. > :29:24.gritty surroundings of Slough, the final stretch in which our leader's
:29:25. > :29:29.feat for barely touch the ground. It has been a strange election -
:29:30. > :29:32.to me, it feels as though the important debates about Brexit
:29:33. > :29:35.and the overall direction of And now we know they have to finish
:29:36. > :29:44.by this time tomorrow. And to get a taste of how all this
:29:45. > :29:47.has played with voters in this marginal seat,
:29:48. > :29:49.we convened a panel A small focus group of people
:29:50. > :29:52.who have been Labour or Tory, or undecided
:29:53. > :29:54.between Labour and Tory. Ipsos Mori selected
:29:55. > :29:56.the panel for us, and, as this is a Labour seat,
:29:57. > :29:59.there is a tilt towards Labour in the numbers,
:30:00. > :30:01.but Tories and undecideds I looked back on the campaign
:30:02. > :30:05.with the panel, to gauge their views on some of the key moments
:30:06. > :30:13.and themes. Thank you for coming and let's talk
:30:14. > :30:17.about the election campaign and which bits made an impression on due
:30:18. > :30:25.and which have not. And where you think he is. -- made an impression
:30:26. > :30:29.on you. To start with security and terror which has dominated sadly
:30:30. > :30:35.much of the campaign. Samantha, has that effect it for you your view of
:30:36. > :30:39.the political parties, you're thinking about this election? It has
:30:40. > :30:47.not changed my thoughts on the political parties, it has remained
:30:48. > :30:51.the same as before. It has made the undecided because I want to feel
:30:52. > :30:54.safe on the streets, I want my children to be safe and then
:30:55. > :31:04.obviously my children will have children. As it is now I am
:31:05. > :31:10.uncertain, I feel we are on site. -- I feel we are on say. We'll bring
:31:11. > :31:13.the perpetrators of the attacks but is anywhere else you blame, people
:31:14. > :31:22.you think of lead the country down? -- we will blame. Personally I think
:31:23. > :31:27.the government has let us down. It seems to be dividing communities. We
:31:28. > :31:33.are supposed to be multicultural and we are on paper but we are not. All
:31:34. > :31:40.the communities are separate. If you're not together there will never
:31:41. > :31:48.be peace. I think security is let us down as well. They knew one of them,
:31:49. > :31:50.in the London terrorist attack that carried out the attack. They could
:31:51. > :31:56.have done something earlier and they did not. Has that affected your
:31:57. > :32:02.thinking about the political parties? I think that it has. I
:32:03. > :32:07.think Theresa May, I do not think she is doing herself any favours
:32:08. > :32:10.with the things she has said. She said things previously about the
:32:11. > :32:14.police that they are bringing back but I do not think that is helping
:32:15. > :32:19.her at the moment. Thinking back to the Manchester or London attack, is
:32:20. > :32:23.that anyone who comes to mind you think captured the moment, who spoke
:32:24. > :32:30.the nation? Who gave the impression of leadership on the issue? I think
:32:31. > :32:36.Jeremy Corbyn did quite well with what he had to say. I think what I
:32:37. > :32:40.do -- I think we need more police on the streets. They have been reduced
:32:41. > :32:46.and local police station has been shut down. If we have an emergency,
:32:47. > :32:50.we're waiting half an hour, and are for something to be done. One of the
:32:51. > :32:55.things often said about voters and terror attacks, is when you're
:32:56. > :33:00.thinking about security they tend perhaps to think in more
:33:01. > :33:06.conservative, right wing ways. For health that is more left. Both --
:33:07. > :33:09.but if anyone who has felt more inclined to vote Conservative as a
:33:10. > :33:17.result of what has happened in this campaign? Heads shaking. How many
:33:18. > :33:22.would say you feel more inclined to vote for Labour as a result of the
:33:23. > :33:25.terror attacks? Several of you. I would like to talk about leadership
:33:26. > :33:31.because that has been quite a big issue in the campaign, both parties
:33:32. > :33:36.made something of that. Who would like to say what the Tories slogan
:33:37. > :33:40.was relating to leadership in the earlier part of the campaign. If I
:33:41. > :33:48.say there was a three word slogan they were using a lot? Strong and
:33:49. > :33:55.stable. How many of you recognise those words is being used by the
:33:56. > :34:00.Conservative Party? Did you hear them repeating that a lot because
:34:01. > :34:07.people used to said they only had three words. They were saying that
:34:08. > :34:13.often. I never heard anyone say something so often. I'm tired of
:34:14. > :34:22.seeing Theresa May, she's always there. Strong and stable. OK, I get
:34:23. > :34:30.it. I think the Jeremy Corbyn one stands out more. For the many and
:34:31. > :34:35.not the few. How many of you know that phrase, for the many, not the
:34:36. > :34:42.few? That one was getting a bit battered. How many of you think that
:34:43. > :34:50.strong and stable is a good way to describe Theresa May? How many of
:34:51. > :34:58.you do not think strong and stable is a good way of describing Theresa
:34:59. > :35:03.May? A couple of abstentions. Why were you laughing when I said strong
:35:04. > :35:10.and stable? Were not strong and stable with Theresa May because of
:35:11. > :35:14.the policing cuts. I think that is the number-1 issue. We cannot be
:35:15. > :35:18.strong and stable without police and we are not secure. We need to
:35:19. > :35:20.prevent these attacks from happening. None of you thought
:35:21. > :35:29.Theresa May represents and stability? You were not persuaded by
:35:30. > :35:35.the slogan? I have never seen anyone so weak and feeble in my life. I
:35:36. > :35:41.didn't think she was quite clever to be asking for this election because
:35:42. > :35:46.she thought she was in a very strong position to win. But as the time has
:35:47. > :35:56.gone on I think she could have shot herself in the foot. What has she
:35:57. > :35:59.shot herself in the foot on? The series of events with the terrorism
:36:00. > :36:05.things, the policing, the things that she is saying and all that
:36:06. > :36:10.about dementia and people's homes to pay for their care. I do not think
:36:11. > :36:16.that helped her. That has overshot the campaign. How many of you have
:36:17. > :36:21.seen your opinion of Theresa May go up during this election campaign?
:36:22. > :36:26.None of you. How many of you think your opinion of her has gone down
:36:27. > :36:31.during the election campaign? What about Jeremy Corbyn, has your
:36:32. > :36:38.opinion of Jeremy Corbyn gone up during the campaign? You're putting
:36:39. > :36:44.your hand up tentatively. I would not stay up or down, I am undecided
:36:45. > :37:17.about him in general. But it has not gone. How many dig your opinion of
:37:18. > :37:18.him has gone down during the campaign? None of you. I'm going to
:37:19. > :37:20.weed out some words and I want you to shout simultaneously. Shout the
:37:21. > :37:20.name Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May. Which one looks more confident?
:37:21. > :37:26.Jeremy Corbyn. More prime Mysterio? Jeremy Corbyn. More serious? Theresa
:37:27. > :37:30.May. More confident? Jeremy Corbyn. More compassionate? Jeremy Corbyn.
:37:31. > :37:38.So you are entering Jeremy Corbyn to most of those questions. -- you are
:37:39. > :37:43.answering. I want to ask you a question to finish, the choice you
:37:44. > :37:47.are facing, you have expressed the view that it comes down to Labour or
:37:48. > :37:54.Tory. Other parties would beg to differ I know. How many of you think
:37:55. > :38:04.that the choice you have this time is a good choice? I've -- but it is
:38:05. > :38:08.a good election with a fair selection of candidates. How many of
:38:09. > :38:16.you think oh my goodness it is a dilemma, you are picking the least
:38:17. > :38:20.bad rather than the most good? Just go round on whether it is an
:38:21. > :38:27.election we are picking a good one or a least bad one? You have to go
:38:28. > :38:33.with what is important to you. So the policies that Jeremy has and
:38:34. > :38:37.Theresa May has come at you go with which our most important to you
:38:38. > :38:49.overall. How do you think you will go? Undecided. I was going to vote
:38:50. > :38:54.Tory but as Theresa May has gone a long her campaign has kind of weak
:38:55. > :38:58.and whereas I have seen Jeremy Corbyn get stronger. That has made
:38:59. > :39:13.me weep a bit. So I am a bit undecided. Mark, to have the last
:39:14. > :39:23.word! I am sitting on the fence. From what I've heard, I think it is
:39:24. > :39:28.going more towards the Labour Party. Roy, you were a Labour voter, do you
:39:29. > :39:33.think that this is an election where it is a choice or a dilemma, is it
:39:34. > :39:40.about the best or the least bad? I think is a different choice, between
:39:41. > :39:45.a new weight or an old way. The old way has not been doing so well so
:39:46. > :39:50.let us try the new way. I think the Labour Party are setting out the
:39:51. > :39:53.things that are important to most people, the NHS, education,
:39:54. > :40:01.policing. A better choice than last time when it was David Cameron or Ed
:40:02. > :40:05.Miliband? Definitely, much better. A really good election with a clear
:40:06. > :40:09.choice, Jeremy Corbyn all the way and a lot of optimism here and
:40:10. > :40:21.exciting times it hopefully he gets in. Tory voter lifetime, where are
:40:22. > :40:25.you now? Still undecided. The last time when it was David Cameron and
:40:26. > :40:32.Ed Miliband it was a clear choice because Cameron was the stronger
:40:33. > :40:38.leader. But this time, I am going to wait until Thursday I think. Just
:40:39. > :40:45.choose the last minute. Quite a few undecideds. You have not got long.
:40:46. > :40:51.On paper I do not think any of them are standout leaders. Not like
:40:52. > :40:55.Barack Obama, you think he is a leader. How do you think you will
:40:56. > :41:04.go? I would rather not say. You see Jeremy Corbyn
:41:05. > :41:06.getting a relatively warm reception in that group -
:41:07. > :41:08.is that the prevalent view in places like this,
:41:09. > :41:11.or was the panel untypical? You never know until
:41:12. > :41:14.the day, do you? Well, here in Walsall's
:41:15. > :41:16.New Art Gallery with me are Andrew Mitchell,
:41:17. > :41:18.who has been the MP for Sutton Coldfield since 2001
:41:19. > :41:21.and is the former Secretary of State Liam Byrne has been the MP
:41:22. > :41:25.for Birmingham Hodge Hill since 2004, and was a member
:41:26. > :41:42.of the Shadow Front Bench Andrew Mitchell, do you agree with
:41:43. > :41:49.those other senior colleagues, that this has been a terrible Tory
:41:50. > :41:52.campaign? This is my ninth general election as a Parliamentary
:41:53. > :41:57.candidate and I have never known any of those elections not experience
:41:58. > :41:59.quite a lot of turbulence in the Conservative Party and this is no
:42:00. > :42:04.exception. But over the past month I have been in a number of targeted
:42:05. > :42:09.and marginal seats across the Midlands. I think it was never as
:42:10. > :42:13.good for the Conservative Party as at the beginning, I do not think it
:42:14. > :42:17.is as bad as some media are suggesting it is now. I think on the
:42:18. > :42:21.ground there is a different battle going on to the battle going on in
:42:22. > :42:28.the national media. You say you have done nine, can you think of a worse
:42:29. > :42:33.Conservative campaign than this? I think there have always been
:42:34. > :42:38.difficulties with campaign. I'm not going to do that. I think they have
:42:39. > :42:42.always been difficulties. But on the doorstep I think a lot of the media
:42:43. > :42:45.froth that characterises the national campaign is not bear and I
:42:46. > :42:49.think people across the Midlands are making up their minds who they want
:42:50. > :42:53.to deal with Brexit and who they think will run the economy best
:42:54. > :43:02.after the general election is over. Liam Byrne, what is your critique of
:43:03. > :43:05.the Tory campaign? I think it has been interesting, Theresa May went
:43:06. > :43:12.into the election thinking it was a con election. She wanted to make the
:43:13. > :43:15.pitch to hire me as your chief negotiator but that has not worked
:43:16. > :43:20.because people already have factored in Brexit and they want to move
:43:21. > :43:24.beyond it. So the election has been revealed actually as I change
:43:25. > :43:32.election. And Labour have put some bold offers on the table, around 6%
:43:33. > :43:36.increase in public spending and that has resonated. People do not want
:43:37. > :43:39.more of the same. At the beginning it was thought that this could
:43:40. > :43:46.redraw the map and bring the Tories back into blue-collar areas, destroy
:43:47. > :43:51.Ukip, replace Labour as a party of aspiration and the working class. In
:43:52. > :43:58.your opinion is that happening or basically is it retreating to the
:43:59. > :44:02.traditional two parties? I think is retreating to the traditional
:44:03. > :44:05.2-party election but that is not inconsistent with some of the points
:44:06. > :44:11.we made about the collapse of Ukip and so on. But I think the media set
:44:12. > :44:18.of very low bar for Jeremy Corbyn. He has had a good election campaign,
:44:19. > :44:22.to be fair. But as he goes blasting up the arterial roads of Britain
:44:23. > :44:26.lobbing 50-pound notes at every interest group that there is, I
:44:27. > :44:29.think here in the Midlands on the doorsteps the reaction I'm getting,
:44:30. > :44:33.people are suspicious of that. They do not think there is a magic cure
:44:34. > :44:39.and I think it will come down to those two points I made at the
:44:40. > :44:42.start, Brexit and the economy. In focus group Brexit, they did not
:44:43. > :44:48.know enough about the different pitches for that to be decisive. But
:44:49. > :44:52.to talk about vulnerabilities of the quadrant campaign and money.
:44:53. > :44:55.Starting with money because you the guy who wrote the famous note about
:44:56. > :44:59.the money that the money running out. Do you think people will buy
:45:00. > :45:08.the pain of idea that you can raise public spending by five, 10%, and
:45:09. > :45:16.not notice or find any, that you are paying for?
:45:17. > :45:24.Is Labour being honest? Look, the costed programme is about ?48.6
:45:25. > :45:31.billion, 80% of that money would come from Corporation Tax going back
:45:32. > :45:36.up, the financial transaction tax. The experts said that that will have
:45:37. > :45:40.costs, it will feed through to prices, wages, shareholders,
:45:41. > :45:44.pensions. The figures that have been put on the table are the best
:45:45. > :45:49.available. The key thing is that the spending plans, it is about a 6%
:45:50. > :45:54.increase in public spending, are matched by the tax plans, which are
:45:55. > :45:58.seen as fair. Theresa May's problem is that she went into this election
:45:59. > :46:03.without having a pre-election budget. Her manifesto has unravelled
:46:04. > :46:07.very quickly because there are no numbers to go with it. The other
:46:08. > :46:11.vulnerability is that everybody in the Parliamentary party, most of
:46:12. > :46:15.them, voted that they have no confidence in the guide, including
:46:16. > :46:19.yourself. We're not talking about ancient history, it's less than a
:46:20. > :46:25.year ago that you said I have no confidence in the sky. Do you now
:46:26. > :46:29.have confidence in him? This is not a presidential election. Do you have
:46:30. > :46:35.confidence in him or not Brazil and I am voting for him, so I do have
:46:36. > :46:38.confidence in him. We have put together a plan which has united
:46:39. > :46:44.what is a broad church in the Labour Party. You must have either been
:46:45. > :46:49.wrong one year ago when you said you had no-confidence in him, or not
:46:50. > :46:53.have confidence in him now. There is a logic in that. I'm not avoiding
:46:54. > :46:57.the question. The key thing that has changed from one year ago is that
:46:58. > :47:02.one plant has been put on the table which has been drawn from all parts
:47:03. > :47:07.of the Labour Party, the broad church of the Labour movement. It is
:47:08. > :47:11.a very different proposition. Do you think the Tories underestimated
:47:12. > :47:16.Jeremy Corbyn at the beginning of this campaign? The media set a low
:47:17. > :47:20.bar. I have never underestimated Jeremy Corbyn, I have worked with
:47:21. > :47:24.him in parliament and probably know him better than many parliamentary
:47:25. > :47:30.colleagues. Liem is existing wished former businessman and he will know
:47:31. > :47:33.that you cannot -- is a distinguished former businessman.
:47:34. > :47:38.You cannot get all of this money by just taxing the 5%. On the doorsteps
:47:39. > :47:42.in the Midlands, people's eyes have narrowed and I believe they will
:47:43. > :47:47.vote for the Conservative Party on Thursday. Thank you both very much.
:47:48. > :47:48.You can find a full list of the candidates from both the Walsall
:47:49. > :47:51.constituencies on the BBC website. You probably know the old saying
:47:52. > :47:54.that you never get a second chance Well, maybe Jeremy Corbyn has belied
:47:55. > :47:57.that particular claim. For many people, first impressions
:47:58. > :48:00.of him were drawn from his apparent reluctance to sing the national
:48:01. > :48:03.anthem back in 2015 just after becoming Labour leader -
:48:04. > :48:05.a moment that had Tory But in this campaign,
:48:06. > :48:08.many people have evidently come His approval ratings
:48:09. > :48:11.have improved markedly. Which is interesting,
:48:12. > :48:13.as he has of course been We asked Stephen Bush,
:48:14. > :48:17.a special correspondent at the New Statesman magazine,
:48:18. > :48:19.and the journalist who perhaps before anyone else recognised that
:48:20. > :48:22.Mr Corbyn was going to be Labour leader, to make a film for us
:48:23. > :48:25.offering us his account Jeremy Corbyn comes from a place
:48:26. > :48:34.unlike any other Labour leader. He leads a party where his own MPs
:48:35. > :48:42.have voted against him twice. He's abandoned everything history
:48:43. > :48:45.tells us Labour must do to win. Yet, the more the country has seen
:48:46. > :48:48.of him in this campaign, the more his appeal has
:48:49. > :48:53.seemed to grow. So what have we all missed
:48:54. > :49:00.about the Corbyn project? By day, he's fighting to change
:49:01. > :49:05.the Labour Party and campaigning. By evening, he is fighting
:49:06. > :49:07.to change the Labour It is in effect not just
:49:08. > :49:11.the end of Blairism, It is the end of an entire moment
:49:12. > :49:15.in British politics. His appeal is too wide
:49:16. > :49:18.and too deep to be ignored. Corbyn was born in 1949,
:49:19. > :49:21.and grew up in the small Shropshire Other Labour leaders
:49:22. > :49:24.from comfortable upbringings, like Clement Attlee and Tony Blair,
:49:25. > :49:26.discovered their ideals But Jeremy Corbyn emerged almost
:49:27. > :49:33.fully formed from his upbringing I am from a working-class part
:49:34. > :49:40.of London, he is a very And what struck me, he'd
:49:41. > :49:49.had quite a privileged He didn't have things
:49:50. > :49:56.of the inner-city. But that is what he wanted
:49:57. > :49:59.for everyone else. His parents, David and Naomi,
:50:00. > :50:01.had met while campaigning for the Republicans
:50:02. > :50:03.during the Spanish Civil War. David was an official in the local
:50:04. > :50:06.Labour Party, and Corbyn joined The young Jeremy was often
:50:07. > :50:10.tasked with connecting But it was at home where his
:50:11. > :50:13.politics were shaped. There was an atmosphere both
:50:14. > :50:16.in my house and indeed in Jeremy's house of the parents
:50:17. > :50:18.and the youngsters talking together quite seriously about politics
:50:19. > :50:20.and being taken seriously, Their first campaign
:50:21. > :50:29.was the 1964 election, when Harold Wilson ended 13
:50:30. > :50:34.years of Conservative rule. We did do things together,
:50:35. > :50:38.fundraising, it was in a marginal constituency and it was worth
:50:39. > :50:41.getting out on the streets for. And that's what every party wants
:50:42. > :50:45.to know from its canvassers. It wants to pinpoint its supporters
:50:46. > :50:49.and make sure that it can get everyone to the polls
:50:50. > :50:55.on October 15th. He left his traditional school
:50:56. > :50:57.with only two E grades at A-level, In an early example of activism,
:50:58. > :51:02.he had refused to join the school's Conscientious objectors like Corbyn
:51:03. > :51:05.were instead allowed to mow We had a little room
:51:06. > :51:13.where we could disappear when we had done all the jobs
:51:14. > :51:16.and make ourselves a cup of tea. Because it was a time of great
:51:17. > :51:20.political discussion. But Vietnam, combined
:51:21. > :51:22.with Wilson's failure to really transform Britain,
:51:23. > :51:25.meant many on the left By the time Corbyn moved
:51:26. > :51:32.to London in the 1970s, To fix Labour, its members needed
:51:33. > :51:35.to take over the party. To fight the leadership
:51:36. > :51:39.at every level. On everything from foreign policy
:51:40. > :51:48.to management of policing. And the Home Secretary had to reply
:51:49. > :51:51.to attacks on the police, like this If this government can find time
:51:52. > :51:55.and money, apparently, to appease the police,
:51:56. > :51:57.how is it they have not found the time to do anything to bring
:51:58. > :52:00.about democratic control You have to remember that
:52:01. > :52:09.on the left, at end of the 1970s, our most important campaign
:52:10. > :52:11.was the campaign for And the point about the campaign
:52:12. > :52:16.for Labour Party democracy was that it placed the most value
:52:17. > :52:19.on members and members That is why today I think
:52:20. > :52:28.Jeremy thinks, correctly, that his legitimacy comes
:52:29. > :52:31.from the fact that so many people If you want to understand
:52:32. > :52:39.Jeremy Corbyn's professional life, you have to understand this
:52:40. > :52:41.particular patch of From Haringey to Hornsey
:52:42. > :52:51.to Islington, he's always been more of a movement man
:52:52. > :52:53.than a professional politician. As a union organiser in Haringey,
:52:54. > :52:56.then a councillor in Hornsey, and finally in 1983,
:52:57. > :52:58.a safe seat in Islington North, his career covers the entirety
:52:59. > :53:01.of the Labour movement. His guiding principle
:53:02. > :53:14.in all these roles - Jeremy sees himself first
:53:15. > :53:18.and foremost accountable to the mass And much less so to
:53:19. > :53:22.the Parliamentary Labour Party. And he sees them as having been over
:53:23. > :53:25.the last two years, awkward, difficult, trying to undermine him,
:53:26. > :53:27.trying to obstruct what he has You have just seen the new Labour
:53:28. > :53:37.Party of Neil Kinnock. Glossy brochures, glossy
:53:38. > :53:40.words, glossy images. It all looks very comfortable
:53:41. > :53:44.and cosy, doesn't it? But when you look behind all
:53:45. > :53:49.the rosy covers, what do you find? Jeremy Corbyn, Labour candidate
:53:50. > :53:53.for Islington North. Defeat of the Tory government
:53:54. > :53:56.will be brought about by a series of disputes of which Parliament
:53:57. > :53:58.is only a part. The quote the Tories picked
:53:59. > :54:01.out was very important. Corbyn does see Westminster as only
:54:02. > :54:04.one front in a much bigger fight These positions were
:54:05. > :54:11.a gift to the Tories. This is Valerie Furness,
:54:12. > :54:16.Labour candidate for Nuneaton. A Labour government has got to take
:54:17. > :54:19.on the people who obstruct it, Somebody said, oh, Val,
:54:20. > :54:24.you're on the television. And that is when I
:54:25. > :54:27.first saw the poster. You know, I was on a
:54:28. > :54:33.poster with my friends. Even in the febrile 1980s,
:54:34. > :54:38.Corbyn and his allies They believed in stronger trade
:54:39. > :54:43.unions, significant redistribution, and that power was won not just
:54:44. > :54:46.in Westminster, but on the streets. Their associations too
:54:47. > :54:52.offended Middle England. Corbyn embraced Martin McGuinness
:54:53. > :54:55.when he was still a pariah, and he campaigned for those
:54:56. > :54:57.convicted wrongly of pub bombings. Critics saw him as an
:54:58. > :54:59.advocate for the IRA. It didn't work in 1987,
:55:00. > :55:07.those people got elected. It didn't work, the Guildford four
:55:08. > :55:09.were exonerated along And there was a peace
:55:10. > :55:14.agreement in Ireland. Mrs Thatcher is now edging towards
:55:15. > :55:25.an overall majority of 100... The problem for Corbyn
:55:26. > :55:27.was, in the late 1980s, the country and the Labour Party
:55:28. > :55:30.thought he was wrong. And it is going to be
:55:31. > :55:32.a record-breaking night. Three victories running
:55:33. > :55:34.for the Prime Minister... The Parliamentary Labour Party
:55:35. > :55:37.concluded, for Labour to ever win again, it had
:55:38. > :55:43.to bury its Corbynite elements. In 1996, Tony Blair joked
:55:44. > :55:47.about the very idea of a Corbyn leadership, saying you really don't
:55:48. > :55:50.have to worry about Jeremy Corbyn And in the resulting battle
:55:51. > :55:54.for the party's soul, We have been elected as New Labour
:55:55. > :56:07.and we will govern as New Labour. Jeremy Corbyn has always
:56:08. > :56:09.wanted one thing, which is And if you think of it in terms
:56:10. > :56:18.of who your opponents and who your enemies are,
:56:19. > :56:20.for Jeremy Corbyn Theresa His political enemies
:56:21. > :56:26.are in the Labour Party. People like me, people
:56:27. > :56:30.like Tony Blair, and it is Blairism. Just like after Harold Wilson,
:56:31. > :56:32.Corbynism was born out of disillusionment with
:56:33. > :56:38.the Labour government. After the party's second defeat
:56:39. > :56:41.in 2015, changes to the party's rules for electing its leader,
:56:42. > :56:44.intended to revive the party's I thought he had no chance
:56:45. > :56:52.of winning in May 2015. But convinced myself
:56:53. > :56:55.and others that if he fought a good populist campaign,
:56:56. > :56:57.he could get a decent And use it to start building
:56:58. > :57:05.what he has always wanted, which is an extra-parliamentary mass
:57:06. > :57:10.movement of progressive people. Under Corbyn, Labour
:57:11. > :57:13.membership has surged. And the Corbynites believe that
:57:14. > :57:16.a large base will keep the party on the left,
:57:17. > :57:18.preventing the compromises A Labour Party which was out
:57:19. > :57:31.of power but purged New Labour members and New Labour
:57:32. > :57:39.influence is the ambition Power is a by-product,
:57:40. > :57:43.because if you go to the root of what is supporters always talk
:57:44. > :57:46.about, it is always framed in terms Moving the terms on which
:57:47. > :57:49.we consider things in. All radical parties aim to change
:57:50. > :57:53.the language of politics. Clement Attlee in 1945,
:57:54. > :58:02.Margaret Thatcher in 1979. The Corbyn project aims
:58:03. > :58:04.to shift the debate, too. And this partly explains
:58:05. > :58:06.their defensiveness with the press. If you want to try and get good
:58:07. > :58:10.coverage, you want to try and get a page lead in the Daily Mail,
:58:11. > :58:15.page lead in The Sun, and work with the press,
:58:16. > :58:18.first of all you genuinely have to compromise on your policies
:58:19. > :58:20.and your politics. And, secondly, come a general
:58:21. > :58:23.election, as they did to Ed Miliband, they just throw
:58:24. > :58:25.the kitchen sink at you. So that compromise isn't
:58:26. > :58:29.worth it in the long one. Let's be clear that it's been
:58:30. > :58:34.very hard for him to get over a lot of the media,
:58:35. > :58:37.all through the time Now it's a general election,
:58:38. > :58:51.and there has got to be some sort of fairness in the media,
:58:52. > :58:53.even from the BBC. he is getting it over,
:58:54. > :58:57.he is getting it over. Any rise in support may be
:58:58. > :59:01.because Corbyn has compromised. Where once he railed
:59:02. > :59:03.against appeasing the police, he is now a loud defender
:59:04. > :59:05.of the Met. He abandoned decades
:59:06. > :59:09.of Euroscepticism to hold onto the leadership,
:59:10. > :59:11.and then switched back once Both those choices
:59:12. > :59:14.will form key planks To remain in charge,
:59:15. > :59:18.no matter the result on Thursday. A lot depends on June the 8th,
:59:19. > :59:22.but I think if he does better than Ed Miliband in terms
:59:23. > :59:25.of the vote share, then he would be well within his rights
:59:26. > :59:28.to stay on as leader. Having had only two years to try
:59:29. > :59:34.and change the Labour Party. Labour's performance in recent polls
:59:35. > :59:43.suggests that aim might be achieved. to restructure Labour so party
:59:44. > :59:47.members pull the strings, for policy to be made
:59:48. > :59:49.by the grassroots, For Labour to remain
:59:50. > :59:52.firmly on the left. That would all but guarantee
:59:53. > :00:18.Corbynism endures, through this Matthew Parris will be profiling
:00:19. > :00:23.Theresa May in tomorrow's programme. Two days to the vote, and this
:00:24. > :00:25.election has not been leading news bulletins today, as other grave
:00:26. > :00:34.matters have been concerned with. One day to go. Do they think there
:00:35. > :00:41.is much that can happen in the last day? This campaign will go American
:00:42. > :00:44.tomorrow, as the two candidates rack up a lot of miles as they travel
:00:45. > :00:48.across Great Britain. The interesting thing about this
:00:49. > :00:52.campaign is that it is going to test the idea that election campaigns to
:00:53. > :00:55.not have much of an impact in the result. In the Labour Party they are
:00:56. > :01:00.upbeat about the campaign but cautious about the result. They have
:01:01. > :01:04.to get out young voters, as we were saying earlier. The Tory campaign,
:01:05. > :01:11.senior figures are nervous and not happy about that campaign. Whatever
:01:12. > :01:13.the result, come Friday morning, I think the British political
:01:14. > :01:15.landscape will look different. Thanks, Nick.
:01:16. > :01:23.Thank you to the art museum for hosting us. I will be in Bolton
:01:24. > :01:34.tomorrow for the day before the vote. We will be in the place where
:01:35. > :01:38.Theresa May picked off her campaign. Another of our election guides. What
:01:39. > :01:39.is the fundamental choice you are making? See you tomorrow. Good
:01:40. > :01:49.night. Elections are sometimes a fight
:01:50. > :01:53.between tribes. Workers versus capitalists, unions versus
:01:54. > :01:58.nationalists, taxpayers versus welcome their recipients. Drivers
:01:59. > :02:02.versus cyclists. -- welfare recipients. Elections are often a
:02:03. > :02:07.fight between who is on top and who gets more of the pie. Not this one,
:02:08. > :02:11.though. Both the Conservatives and Labour fought to be on the same
:02:12. > :02:16.side, fighting for the same people. They are not fighting for those at
:02:17. > :02:19.the bottom. Neither side is making generous promises on welfare.
:02:20. > :02:24.Certainly they are not fighting for those at the top. This is a bad
:02:25. > :02:28.election for fat cats. Nobody is even paying lip service to trickle
:02:29. > :02:32.down economics these days. Everybody is fighting for the same ordinary
:02:33. > :02:35.working families. It is the lower middle that is moving up the
:02:36. > :02:40.political charts. With the main parties agreeing wombat, the choice
:02:41. > :02:46.comes down to this. Labour say the Tories don't mean it, they revert to
:02:47. > :02:51.type. A Tory leopard can't change its spots. The Tories say Labour
:02:52. > :02:55.cannot deliver, they will screw up. The Conservatives do socialism
:02:56. > :02:59.better than Labour ever can. That's this election - Paul Lawrie
:03:00. > :03:04.insincerity versus Labour incompetence, which is the greater
:03:05. > :03:08.risk? -- Tory insincerity. If you don't like ordinary working
:03:09. > :03:11.families, you'd best sit this one out.