07/06/2017

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:00:00. > :00:08.The last few days of this strange election have been

:00:09. > :00:14.But 50 long days ago, a very different campaign began.

:00:15. > :00:16.It is a choice between me and Jeremy Corbyn.

:00:17. > :00:22.I'll give you the figure in a moment.

:00:23. > :00:25.# I'm going to shoot you right down #.

:00:26. > :00:26.What's the naughtiest thing you ever did?

:00:27. > :00:31.Me and my friends sort of used to run through the fields of wheat.

:00:32. > :00:33.The farmers weren't too pleased about that.

:00:34. > :00:44.He will find himself alone and naked in the negotiating chamber.

:00:45. > :00:51.I think it's a shame the Prime Minister hasn't

:00:52. > :00:54.And I don't think seven politicians just arguing amongst themselves

:00:55. > :01:16.Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn...

:01:17. > :01:18.Hello. The talking is over.

:01:19. > :01:21.The election is imminent, you get your say at last.

:01:22. > :01:23.And, for our final pre-election campaign reflections,

:01:24. > :01:25.we are at the Octagon Theatre in Bolton this evening.

:01:26. > :01:27.This is the town where it all started.

:01:28. > :01:29.Theresa May came to this relatively marginal seat

:01:30. > :01:31.of Bolton North East to start her campaign

:01:32. > :01:34.And boy, in doing so, she kicked off yet another

:01:35. > :01:38.event in the series of turbulent national votes of recent years.

:01:39. > :01:40.This has been an unpredictable, rule-busting campaign

:01:41. > :01:42.and one in which many voters appear to have reaffirmed

:01:43. > :01:45.a desire for change, and have shown a willingness to

:01:46. > :01:53.By coming here, Theresa May put northern English towns

:01:54. > :01:55.at the centre of the battle, showering attention on the voters

:01:56. > :01:59.who it seemed were fed up, who had voted Brexit and had flirted

:02:00. > :02:10.It seems an age ago, but Theresa May came here just after Easter. Back

:02:11. > :02:16.then, you'd have guessed that people want a bit of calm anded that her

:02:17. > :02:20.favourite phrase would be a winner. At the time, in places like this

:02:21. > :02:26.Bolton, it seemed Labour support could ebb away. But, after a slow

:02:27. > :02:30.start things began to change more in this campaign than anyone could have

:02:31. > :02:35.imagined. The Labour recovery began. The volatile voter phenomenon was

:02:36. > :02:43.back. After a dull first half, the fight became interesting. Perhaps

:02:44. > :02:47.most remarkable has been the apparent reemergence of two party

:02:48. > :02:52.politics. The old beasts the Tory and Labour Party have have each in

:02:53. > :02:55.their own way adapted to life in the era of populism and discontent.

:02:56. > :03:00.Theresa May wanted to kill Ukip and has yielded some ground to it.

:03:01. > :03:07.Jeremy Corbyn has populous elements in his programme. Neither party

:03:08. > :03:12.bears much resemblance to their 2015 incarnation. Both parties realise

:03:13. > :03:17.something is afoot and our clumsy old system has somehow managed to

:03:18. > :03:23.evolve. So how do the voters of Bolton see things now? Today, I

:03:24. > :03:29.visited a factory that makes disposable chamber pots for the NHS

:03:30. > :03:32.and export. I think it's unfair to finish university with so much

:03:33. > :03:36.prosperity, things you want to do with your life. You have massive

:03:37. > :03:40.debt hanging over you. Have trouble to get on property ladder. Have you

:03:41. > :03:44.been surprised there is so much, kind of, pick up to the Corbyn

:03:45. > :03:47.message during this campaign? I'm very surprised. Particularly, given

:03:48. > :03:50.the circumstances the country is in now and the things that are

:03:51. > :03:55.happening that Corbyn is doing so well. Is something afoot, do you

:03:56. > :03:58.think? Yes. The same with Brexit. People voted for change. You have to

:03:59. > :04:02.be careful. You can't just vote for change. You have to look at the

:04:03. > :04:06.policies and how they are going to move forward. You can't just vote

:04:07. > :04:10.for change. Are you optimistic? I'm probably more optimistic that Corbyn

:04:11. > :04:15.is making a late race only in that the fact that somebody who was so

:04:16. > :04:17.unfancied can now be closing in the polls, shakes up the political

:04:18. > :04:22.establishment. Shakes up the establishment? Yes. People can no

:04:23. > :04:26.longer think I can go with the policies. If Theresa May gets in she

:04:27. > :04:28.will have to think about how she structures her Government to ensure

:04:29. > :04:33.they she captures some of that unrest that has been seen. OK. You

:04:34. > :04:37.might not be surprised that many young workers in manufacturing end

:04:38. > :04:43.up supporting Labour. You won't find the same from older members of the

:04:44. > :04:47.local golf club. However, the surprising thing at this club is

:04:48. > :04:53.that while they won't vote for Mr Corbyn, they think he has a point or

:04:54. > :04:57.two. I think we all admire the principles that Jeremy Corbyn is

:04:58. > :05:01.putting across. Of course. You admire the principles Jeremy Corbyn

:05:02. > :05:04.put across? Exactly. You are all voting Tories you admire The

:05:05. > :05:09.principles. Some. We are senior people. We look back at on our life

:05:10. > :05:12.and look at what we had and how the community functioned. If you are

:05:13. > :05:16.from London there are plenty of opportunities. If you are from

:05:17. > :05:20.anywhere in the north of England, not just the north-west, you would

:05:21. > :05:25.fall back on, say, manufacturing. There is no manufacturing. So to

:05:26. > :05:28.reintroduce manufacturing back into the country post-Brexit would be an

:05:29. > :05:32.excellent things thing. It opens up the door for lots of opportunities.

:05:33. > :05:37.You look at his principles, yeah, you can't argue with them. Do you

:05:38. > :05:43.agree with that, Lorraine? I do. He has basically Labour principles,

:05:44. > :05:48.used to be, but he's too far - I don't agree with how he's so

:05:49. > :05:52.passive. We've got to stick up for yourself in this world. You can't

:05:53. > :05:59.let people ride rough shot over you. His views are the views of what

:06:00. > :06:03.everybody irrespective of what your political allegiance is, I think the

:06:04. > :06:10.views are what we all want. We all want them. But I don't think he can

:06:11. > :06:15.deliver them. It is a time when the country seems unusually divided and,

:06:16. > :06:18.yet, there does still seem to be a widely shared desire for some

:06:19. > :06:21.changing of the economic rules. It I ma be that the election contest is

:06:22. > :06:24.about who can best rise to the challenge.

:06:25. > :06:27.Well, two politicians from this area are with me at the Octagon Theatre.

:06:28. > :06:32.Yasmin Qureshi for Labour, was Shadow Justice Secretary

:06:33. > :06:36.And Nigel Evans for the Conservatives, and who has been

:06:37. > :06:48.Good evening to you both. Thank you. Now then, do you find in this area

:06:49. > :06:51.people are desperate for change or do they want stability? Your

:06:52. > :06:55.campaign was all about stability. Yours is more about change. What is

:06:56. > :07:00.it they want the thirst for change, we will start with you, Yasmin? Yes

:07:01. > :07:03.there is. For too long people feel they are not getting anything out of

:07:04. > :07:07.society. So, for example, you know, owning a home is difficult. Young

:07:08. > :07:11.people are leaving with mass i debts. Not being able to get on to

:07:12. > :07:14.the property ladder. Older people are are worried about what is

:07:15. > :07:19.happening to them. Also parents or people with children who are worried

:07:20. > :07:23.about classroom sizes, education. I sents sense there is a need for

:07:24. > :07:27.change. Right. Nigel, people voted for change in the Brexit referendum.

:07:28. > :07:32.You supported them in that. I certainly did to. The same thirst

:07:33. > :07:34.for change. Maybe saying we want more radical people than Theresa

:07:35. > :07:38.May? It depends what the change is. Brexit was the change in the

:07:39. > :07:43.north-west of England. What is the change here? Well, there's 11 seats

:07:44. > :07:48.in the north-west we are looking at with majorities of fewer than 5,000.

:07:49. > :07:52.Theresa May has been up here several times in the north-east and the

:07:53. > :07:56.north-west of England and she's come up here, not just for health, there

:07:57. > :08:01.are target seats here. Is it going to change? I mean, is she going to

:08:02. > :08:04.take loads of seats? Nigel first and Yasmin? All I can tell you, I

:08:05. > :08:08.visited seven seats during the general election campaign. It may be

:08:09. > :08:12.a snap election, it's been a long campaign, hasn't it. We are all

:08:13. > :08:15.grateful it's the eve of poll. I've heard the same thing time and time

:08:16. > :08:19.again, which is this - I voted Labour in the past, I've been Labour

:08:20. > :08:23.all my life, I'm not voting Labour this time. The one reason - Jeremy

:08:24. > :08:27.Corbyn. It's because they don't think that he is a proper Leader of

:08:28. > :08:32.the Labour Party. Theresa May's goal was to redraw the map of politics in

:08:33. > :08:36.England. Is she going to, Yasmin? No, she's going to. He had a false

:08:37. > :08:41.premise to start the election on the basis she needs more people to help

:08:42. > :08:44.her do Brexit. When the Labour Party, the official opposition,

:08:45. > :08:48.supported triggering Article 50 TB, it was a ruse she saw herself in

:08:49. > :08:52.opinion polls going ahead. I can walk this election. She is not going

:08:53. > :08:55.to. I will tell you why. When she came to Bolton she came in a

:08:56. > :08:59.helicopter answered and went to a private meeting. That does not

:09:00. > :09:03.impress people in the north. In this campaign - Isn't that true. Yeah,

:09:04. > :09:06.for ease of travel. You know why people do what they do. Jeremy and

:09:07. > :09:11.has been using buses. He has been using trains. Today, for example, he

:09:12. > :09:16.travelled from Glasgow down to London, 500 mile journey shechl was

:09:17. > :09:20.in a private jet. I hope it's a private jet made in the north-west

:09:21. > :09:25.of England. I will pose this one question to you. I thought Evan

:09:26. > :09:28.posed them. I'm interested in this. I've looked at a number of Labour

:09:29. > :09:33.leaflets in the north-west of England over the past six weeks, if

:09:34. > :09:42.Jeremy was such an amazing leader, one that I have to say your own MP

:09:43. > :09:50.colleagues have tried to get rid of, why have so many Labour candidates

:09:51. > :09:53.not mentioned Jeremy Corbyn on the leaflets Mrs May hasn't mentioned

:09:54. > :09:58.the conservation it's all about me, strong and stable. I will put a

:09:59. > :10:01.curse on both your houses. Large parts of the north of England,

:10:02. > :10:05.sections of Bolton neglected that have been left to run down. Both

:10:06. > :10:08.your parties have failed the north of England to some extent, haven't

:10:09. > :10:13.they? What you have seen, through the Brexit vote, through other forms

:10:14. > :10:17.of protest vote, you have seen people say - we want to be listened

:10:18. > :10:21.to in parts of the country like this. A protest against you both?

:10:22. > :10:25.With the manifesto we produced in the Labour Party, it's a fantastic

:10:26. > :10:29.manifesto, we talk about investment. We talk about banks. I asked about

:10:30. > :10:32.your record though. Will you concede you had made a mistake and have let

:10:33. > :10:38.things drift too much in parts of the country? In the Labour Party,,

:10:39. > :10:41.when it was in Government, we had real expenditure, invested in the

:10:42. > :10:45.country. Invested in our hospitals, education and our schools. We

:10:46. > :10:50.created jobs. OK. I don't think that we left the north-west behind. You

:10:51. > :10:54.don't. It was all fine until the Tories got in in 2010? No, I'm not

:10:55. > :10:58.saying that. There is a big change taking place. The current Labour

:10:59. > :11:02.Party manifesto taps into that and recognises the fact that there needs

:11:03. > :11:05.to be a change. I will concede there are pockets of def prevagus

:11:06. > :11:08.throughout the whole of the north-west of England. There are

:11:09. > :11:12.people there who feel nobody has been listening to them they are the

:11:13. > :11:15.just managing people and those who are hardly managing at all. They are

:11:16. > :11:19.the ones who I think are looking - they voted Brexit. They are the ones

:11:20. > :11:23.looking to the opportunities that leaving the European Union is going

:11:24. > :11:28.to give to areas like the north-west of England. That's why I'm really

:11:29. > :11:31.pleased we will have a trade commissioner for the north-west

:11:32. > :11:35.going out there to win contracts and creating jobs in the north-west. You

:11:36. > :11:36.managed to make a bit of your own party pitches at the end there.

:11:37. > :11:40.Thank you both very much indeed. I wonder if the last day

:11:41. > :11:42.of a campaign makes much difference? You'd think most minds have been

:11:43. > :11:46.made up but there is also the small matter of exciting the voters enough

:11:47. > :11:49.to make them turn out tomorrow, so certainly the candidates behave

:11:50. > :11:52.as if the last day matters. Theresa May was in London, Norwich,

:11:53. > :11:54.Southampton and the West Midlands. Tim Farron was in Solihull,

:11:55. > :11:58.St Albans and Twickenham. And Jeremy Corbyn was leading

:11:59. > :12:04.multiple rallies across the country. Our political editor, Nick Watt,

:12:05. > :12:07.spent his last day of the campaign, With the clock ticking down

:12:08. > :12:21.to that brief moment voters take charge,

:12:22. > :12:25.Jeremy Corbyn is in his element. A ripple of Corbynmania could be

:12:26. > :12:35.heard across the country today. As the Labour leader visited

:12:36. > :12:40.Scotland, England and here in Wales. As a train buff, Jeremy Corbyn

:12:41. > :12:42.naturally travelled I think some people go

:12:43. > :12:47.around in private jets, On his train travels over the past

:12:48. > :12:52.month-and-a-half, Jeremy Corbyn has At the start, he occasionally

:12:53. > :13:02.struggled to enthuse voters. who sometimes had other matters

:13:03. > :13:04.on their minds as Theresa May enjoyed sky high ratings,

:13:05. > :13:06.and then the Tories had The Tory party thought it was going

:13:07. > :13:19.to be a walk in the park, in the park, they just thought -

:13:20. > :13:22.we're in a lovely park They just thought a walk

:13:23. > :13:26.in the park, what have We've got something very

:13:27. > :13:29.important to offer here. And so the crowds have turned out

:13:30. > :13:33.with similar chants and "I love JC" Just like this rally

:13:34. > :13:36.on the North Wales coast So another great reception

:13:37. > :13:47.for Jeremy Corbyn. Here in Colwyn Bay he's

:13:48. > :13:50.at the halfway point of his tour Most of the seats he's visiting

:13:51. > :13:54.are not held by Labour. The signal he's trying to send

:13:55. > :13:56.is that he's reaching across. We know he can attract

:13:57. > :13:59.these sorts of crowds, the big challenge is -

:14:00. > :14:01.can he translate them into The tetchy Corbyn of old has

:14:02. > :14:06.mellowed and as he laps Friends say Jeremy Corbyn has

:14:07. > :14:19.relaxed into this election campaign. They talk of how he's

:14:20. > :14:21.rekindled the spirit If he wins this general election,

:14:22. > :14:29.which he would do comfortably if he won seats like this one here,

:14:30. > :14:33.it would be the most remarkable journey from a fringe figure

:14:34. > :14:35.in the Labour Party to Number Ten Even if he loses though,

:14:36. > :14:38.this general election campaign will have transformed his fortunes

:14:39. > :14:43.in the Labour Party and make it much more difficult

:14:44. > :14:46.for his opponents to dislodge him. In fact, this campaign has

:14:47. > :14:55.fired up his loyal guard. I was never into politicses

:14:56. > :14:59.because I never thought politicians were like normal

:15:00. > :15:10.people, until now. And Labour supporters,

:15:11. > :15:11.who originally had doubts I actually backed Andy Burnham

:15:12. > :15:15.in the leadership election. However, for me, the idealism

:15:16. > :15:17.of Corbyn is not just We can put these

:15:18. > :15:20.policies into practice. At the end of a gruelling day,

:15:21. > :15:28.hopping on and off trains, Jeremy Corbyn ended his campaign

:15:29. > :15:31.this evening close to his backyard, Whatever the result tomorrow,

:15:32. > :15:34.he believes he has changed the face Well, Nick is now at the site

:15:35. > :15:40.of the last Corbyn event, that rally in Islington,

:15:41. > :15:51.in North London. Nick, we should try to get the mood

:15:52. > :15:55.of both camps, let's start with Labour, what are they feeling this

:15:56. > :16:02.evening. It isn't every day that you've your poetry at a political

:16:03. > :16:05.campaign event but Jeremy Corbyn brought the Labour campaign to an

:16:06. > :16:13.end at the union Chapel in Islington by quoting Shelley, Ye are many,

:16:14. > :16:19.they feel so we know where he got his slogan from, I sense this ends

:16:20. > :16:23.the Labour camp in contented mood after Jeremy Corbyn exceeded

:16:24. > :16:27.expectations in his campaign. But they can read the polls like

:16:28. > :16:32.everyone else and the point to a clear Conservative win in this

:16:33. > :16:36.election. So I sense a mood in the Labour camp that whatever the result

:16:37. > :16:41.they believe Jeremy Corbyn will have changed the face of British politics

:16:42. > :16:46.in this campaign. His aides talk about how they have shifted the

:16:47. > :16:50.centre ground, that Labour manifesto with serious spending commitments,

:16:51. > :16:54.they say that went down very well so Labour can be a much bolder. If

:16:55. > :16:58.Jeremy Corbyn pulls this off he will have changed the face of British

:16:59. > :17:02.politics. If he doesn't, I think it is fair to say he may well have

:17:03. > :17:12.cemented his position within the party. And what are the

:17:13. > :17:17.conservatives feeling, presumably they have looked at the polls. Sends

:17:18. > :17:21.a much calmer mood among Conservative ministers after a

:17:22. > :17:25.fretful few weeks. They acknowledge the campaign has not been a glorious

:17:26. > :17:30.success but say that in recent weeks the mood and a reception on the

:17:31. > :17:35.doorstep has been much better than recent polls suggest. But there our

:17:36. > :17:41.nerves. Their heads say, all should be fine but in their hearts, they

:17:42. > :17:46.say, whose Brexit, who saw Donald Trump? One minister said to me,

:17:47. > :17:50.look, Jeremy Corbyn has been the dominant figure in this campaign

:17:51. > :17:54.which will help Labour in some aspects. But those ministers believe

:17:55. > :17:59.ultimately it will benefit them. This is what one nervous minister

:18:00. > :18:04.told me this evening. Whatever evidence piles up in our favour, it

:18:05. > :18:11.is still going to be a heart stopping moment at 10pm tomorrow

:18:12. > :18:15.night when the exit poll comes out. Nick, thank you very much.

:18:16. > :18:17.It's been quite a year for Theresa May.

:18:18. > :18:19.She seemed to exude a quiet authority in the aftermath

:18:20. > :18:21.of the referendum - in contrast to the bickering boys

:18:22. > :18:24.in her party who were scrapping it out for the top job.

:18:25. > :18:27.There was a lot of goodwill, as she embarked on a mission

:18:28. > :18:30.to recast her party away from the posh, to the ordinary.

:18:31. > :18:32.To rebuild Tory Britain in a post Brexit environment.

:18:33. > :18:35.But while she deftly positioned the party in a place that looked

:18:36. > :18:39.like it might own 80% of the political spectrum,

:18:40. > :18:41.she has not proved as deft at communicating.

:18:42. > :18:44.The election has evidently exposed a certain brittleness

:18:45. > :18:48.I suppose we'll find out which matters more -

:18:49. > :18:52.the strategy, or the ability to inspire in words.

:18:53. > :18:56.But we asked The Times writer Matthew Parris,

:18:57. > :18:58.an independent-minded Conservative supporter, to make a film,

:18:59. > :19:06.offering his view of Theresa May and her politics.

:19:07. > :19:11.Theresa May will not be the first Conservative Prime Minister to have

:19:12. > :19:15.travelled from a comfortable childhood in leafy rural

:19:16. > :19:19.England to the sooty brick hell of Downing Street.

:19:20. > :19:23.But the speed with which this has happened leaves an electorate

:19:24. > :19:27.still trying to colour in an almost blank picture of the character,

:19:28. > :19:37.I've met her, I've dined with her, I've discussed politics with her,

:19:38. > :19:40.but I still don't feel I know who Theresa May really

:19:41. > :19:51.In this film, we've set out to talk to people who've known her or worked

:19:52. > :19:55.with her at different times in her life, in search of what lies

:19:56. > :19:59.behind the steely gaze of the Sphinx of Maidenhead.

:20:00. > :20:03.At Oxford, she didn't join the posh set.

:20:04. > :20:05.As a friend she still keeps up with, Pat Frankland, explains.

:20:06. > :20:08.I think we were a little bit of a gang.

:20:09. > :20:16.One of my friends described it as a group she joined

:20:17. > :20:24.because we were all very normal and we didn't, sort of, stand out,

:20:25. > :20:29.Pat says the ultimate ambition had already dawned.

:20:30. > :20:33.She was very interested in politics even then,

:20:34. > :20:38.and she wanted to be an MP and she seems not to remember it,

:20:39. > :20:42.but I'm sure she told us she wanted to be Prime Minister.

:20:43. > :20:44.Her systematic approach to getting things done seems

:20:45. > :21:03.Well, she had a string of boyfriends and if they...

:21:04. > :21:07.well, they seemed to be more on trial I'd say than most things,

:21:08. > :21:11.She sometimes seemed to have them overlapping because we'd get kicked

:21:12. > :21:14.under the table if we started talking about the wrong film,

:21:15. > :21:17.and if it's one she'd seen with another boyfriend,

:21:18. > :21:20.she didn't want to go and see it again, when we were

:21:21. > :21:24.unfortunate enough to inspire the new boyfriend with it.

:21:25. > :21:30.Once Philip came on the scene, that was it, the others all disappeared.

:21:31. > :21:34.So it was very, very fast that that was the one.

:21:35. > :21:42.And he was very nice, but he seemed quite young.

:21:43. > :21:46.Those early dreams of breaking through as a woman in politics

:21:47. > :21:50.Baroness Jenkin, who co-founded with Theresa May

:21:51. > :21:54.an organisation called Women2Win, a Conservative Party project

:21:55. > :22:00.to increase the number of female Tory MPs, told me she carries

:22:01. > :22:02.on helping, pitching in with energy, but a kind

:22:03. > :22:06.One or two people have said that she has quite a kind

:22:07. > :22:14.But at the same time, very professionally.

:22:15. > :22:16.She wouldn't get emotionally involved with them.

:22:17. > :22:19.But I was struck earlier this year, when I was talking

:22:20. > :22:24.about her on something, and a woman came, wrote to me,

:22:25. > :22:27.and said, I've still got the letter, framed letter, that she wrote me

:22:28. > :22:34.So I think she was very well aware that for a lot of women, you know,

:22:35. > :22:36.the resilience that she has needs to be encouraged in others

:22:37. > :22:40.and I think that she was, you know, very much trying to give some

:22:41. > :22:42.of these women, not exactly backbone, but the kind

:22:43. > :22:47.Both colleagues and journalists seem to agree that she's generally

:22:48. > :22:52.content to let her work speak for itself.

:22:53. > :22:55.Well, my first impression of her was as a journalist and I've

:22:56. > :22:57.always rather admired the fact that Theresa May never wanted

:22:58. > :23:02.Actually, a lot of journalists found it very difficult

:23:03. > :23:07.because they could never get a story out of her.

:23:08. > :23:09.And I came to believe she's a very rare politician

:23:10. > :23:13.And I think that's quite an advantage.

:23:14. > :23:16.Well, I'm by nature a bit of a gossip and a bit of a,

:23:17. > :23:19.you know, I like a chat at the end of the day.

:23:20. > :23:24.I mean, she was, as I say, highly professional,

:23:25. > :23:27.but there was no - OK, let's kick our shoes off and,

:23:28. > :23:41.Is she personally, socially an easy colleague?

:23:42. > :23:46.She's funnier than her public image, sort of, suggests.

:23:47. > :23:49.On a car journey she's very good company,

:23:50. > :23:58.Nick Clegg, as Deputy Prime Minister, when Theresa May

:23:59. > :24:00.was Home Secretary, was never personally close, but he

:24:01. > :24:09.Unlike Sir Eric, he believes he spotted an early insecurity.

:24:10. > :24:11.My recollection is of someone who felt slightly overwhelmed

:24:12. > :24:14.by what she was being asked to do in the Home Office.

:24:15. > :24:16.When we announced all these highly controversial savings,

:24:17. > :24:20.there was something, sort of, especially meticulous,

:24:21. > :24:26.but slightly unsure as well about the way that she,

:24:27. > :24:32.sort of, pored over all the numbers in Number Ten.

:24:33. > :24:34.How about her emerging political philosophy, had Thatcher

:24:35. > :24:43.I don't know why not, though she was quite irritated

:24:44. > :25:00.Pipped to the post, I'm sure I remember that.

:25:01. > :25:05.I think Margaret always seemed quite harsh towards the common

:25:06. > :25:11.people, and I don't think Theresa would like that.

:25:12. > :25:13.But if she wasn't exactly a Thatcherite, what was she?

:25:14. > :25:25.She was meticulous about the trees, but how about the wood?

:25:26. > :25:29.Nick Clegg thinks she took refuge in detail and found her

:25:30. > :25:33.reluctant to talk alone without special advisers.

:25:34. > :25:43.I asked her not to bring the special advisers

:25:44. > :25:45.with her into the meetings that I used to have

:25:46. > :25:49.found it all rather disrupt, but I did find that,

:25:50. > :25:52.as a result, I could never get a decision out of her

:25:53. > :25:55.in the meetings because she'd have to go back and sort of,

:25:56. > :25:57.I assume, test her ideas and test my suggestions

:25:58. > :26:03.The most striking thing of all is how little she said or how

:26:04. > :26:07.little she displayed much interest in wider political issues.

:26:08. > :26:12.I don't think, I don't think I can recall a single instance,

:26:13. > :26:14.either in private meetings with her or in private conversations

:26:15. > :26:18.with her or around the Cabinet table, where she ever said anything

:26:19. > :26:22.interesting about or of interest in our economy.

:26:23. > :26:30.I think she has a major weakness, which is she's not very interested

:26:31. > :26:32.in business and she doesn't understand business terribly well,

:26:33. > :26:36.I suspect and I think neither does her inner circle.

:26:37. > :26:41.I think this, as we head into Brexit, will be a major issue.

:26:42. > :26:44.She needs to get an awful lot more sophisticated about giving

:26:45. > :26:55.I think in terms of, sort of, an organising vision for society,

:26:56. > :26:57.I'm not really persuaded there is much there.

:26:58. > :27:06.I offer myself as your Prime Minister.

:27:07. > :27:11.And if they are right and she lacks an organising vision, does she

:27:12. > :27:14.I asked Camilla Cavendish about those recent

:27:15. > :27:20.The manifesto promise on social policy for instance.

:27:21. > :27:23.I imagine that what will have happened is yes, she will have been

:27:24. > :27:26.pretty nervous about the reaction, that Lynton Crosby will have told

:27:27. > :27:29.her to get the barnacles off the boat, because it was becoming a

:27:30. > :27:31.distraction in the campaign, and she has backed down.

:27:32. > :27:34.That suggests to me that she may not have been as

:27:35. > :27:37.committed to the policy in the first place as I had assumed.

:27:38. > :27:39.Because to push a policy like that through you

:27:40. > :27:53.Intelligence comes in so many forms and perhaps general phrases about

:27:54. > :27:55.intellect are meaningless but I asked Anne Jenkin anyway.

:27:56. > :28:01.I mean, she's not obviously brilliant

:28:02. > :28:06.but she has a good enough mind to have got to Oxford at a time when it

:28:07. > :28:08.wasn't very easy, but she has an organised mind and

:28:09. > :28:13.I don't think it's a brilliant mind but does that matter?

:28:14. > :28:24.And even if Lady Jenkin is right, is it really more

:28:25. > :28:26.On the doorstep myself I found that the

:28:27. > :28:31.people among whom Theresa May's name really does help a Tory canvasser

:28:32. > :28:37.are precisely the kind of people she is always talking about.

:28:38. > :28:40.The middle middle classes, the lower middle classes, people who have a

:28:41. > :28:43.bit of a struggle, have to look for the next penny

:28:44. > :28:47.The people whose problems she thinks she understands better

:28:48. > :28:59.Nor should we overlook her moments of

:29:00. > :29:08.intellectual daring, too frequent to dismiss as untypical.

:29:09. > :29:10.That famous "nasty party" speech for instance, her

:29:11. > :29:12.fierce expression of sympathy for black youth.

:29:13. > :29:14.If you're black you're treated more harshly by the criminal

:29:15. > :29:16.justice system, then if you're white.

:29:17. > :29:19.Her visible outrage at what she sees as injustice, like when she

:29:20. > :29:21.refused to extradite the hacker Gary McKinnon to the United States.

:29:22. > :29:24.Or her astonishing speech laying into the Police

:29:25. > :29:31.If the federation does not start to turn itself around, you

:29:32. > :29:33.must not be under the impression that the government will let things

:29:34. > :29:43.I think if she's not treated with respect, but that

:29:44. > :29:48.And I suspect it would annoy you as well.

:29:49. > :29:53.Whether Theresa May is respected by those on

:29:54. > :29:56.the other side of the table may depend not so much on a majority,

:29:57. > :29:58.were she to get it, but her abilities.

:29:59. > :30:09.Does she have those negotiating skills?

:30:10. > :30:11.I think she has great control in the sense that if she

:30:12. > :30:13.doesn't get her way, she won't necessarily always

:30:14. > :30:15.reveal her inner fury but she clearly will not

:30:16. > :30:23.And again that's a strength but it also can be a bit of

:30:24. > :30:26.a weakness if you are having to deploy quicksilver

:30:27. > :30:42.charm and persuade people to do what you want.

:30:43. > :30:43.Eric Pickles made a surprising, possibly unintended

:30:44. > :30:53.I always found her very straightforward to deal with,

:30:54. > :30:55.providing you told her what you wanted to do

:30:56. > :30:58.and you didn't try to get yourself into a negotiation.

:30:59. > :31:00.Most people in politics are transactional.

:31:01. > :31:09.She is the worst person in the world to do a deal because she'll do

:31:10. > :31:14.But if you come to her, in a reasonable way,

:31:15. > :31:17.with a reasonable case, nine times out of ten she'll back you.

:31:18. > :31:19.Her unwillingness to horse trade was a

:31:20. > :31:22.close relative of another Theresa May tactic in meetings and

:31:23. > :31:36.Um, what she does do, and she does it with journalists

:31:37. > :31:44.as well, is that she uses silence to enormous effect.

:31:45. > :31:45.She doesn't always, she is not always

:31:46. > :31:49.Now what that means is that other people will fill the gap,

:31:50. > :31:53.and that, I think, is quite a useful strategy because she gets an awful

:31:54. > :32:02.One technique that I admired was, she did have the ability, which I

:32:03. > :32:05.remember sort of making a mental note that I must try to emulate

:32:06. > :32:08.myself, of just sort of saying no and sitting there and saying

:32:09. > :32:13.It's like, what's the point of having a meeting if you're not

:32:14. > :32:19.If her silence was a strength, I wanted to know her

:32:20. > :32:23.While she's lost her air of invincibility in this general

:32:24. > :32:25.election campaign, I wanted to know what people

:32:26. > :32:28.who knew her thought if

:32:29. > :32:30.she were to fall, what would bring her down.

:32:31. > :32:32.I was surprised by their near-unanimity.

:32:33. > :32:35.If she was to fail, it might be sometimes the ability to

:32:36. > :32:41.build a coalition inside the party to support.

:32:42. > :32:43.Perhaps it would be about not listening to a wide

:32:44. > :32:48.variety of voices, that would be my instinct.

:32:49. > :32:50.Even one of her oldest friends agrees.

:32:51. > :32:52.Do you see any character traits that might trip

:32:53. > :33:10.Ahem, possibly her lack of ability to form a gang.

:33:11. > :33:15.I don't know how that works with making her Cabinet

:33:16. > :33:19.into a team, though I'm told she's quite good to work for in the civil

:33:20. > :33:22.service sense, so she may be able to do that well.

:33:23. > :33:28.It gets worse as you get older, from my experience anyway!

:33:29. > :33:37.Is it her early life that holds the key or do reflections of

:33:38. > :33:42.She keeps her personality, her identity almost,

:33:43. > :33:55.Whether it's in the silences that act like a moat

:33:56. > :33:57.or close advisers, who act like archers firing from the walls,

:33:58. > :34:00.the urge to keep the world out needs explaining.

:34:01. > :34:02.You might behave as she does if you absolutely knew what to

:34:03. > :34:09.You might behave as she does, if you didn't have a clue.

:34:10. > :34:24.We have been out and about in this campaign -

:34:25. > :34:26.not quite as intended, as it happens, as a result of

:34:27. > :34:31.But it is fair to say that every town and city has a perspective

:34:32. > :34:36.and every visit away from home provides an insight.

:34:37. > :34:39.So we have brought two members of our election panel

:34:40. > :34:41.to Bolton to help us analyse the campaign.

:34:42. > :34:44.Polly Mackenzie, former advisor to Nick Clegg and writer

:34:45. > :34:45.and columnist and Corbyn supporter, Paul Mason.

:34:46. > :34:47.In London is Iain Dale, Tory-supporting LBC presenter.

:34:48. > :34:51.We thought we would keep him there away from Paul. Good evening to you

:34:52. > :34:55.all. Let us talk about Theresa May. We have had a Theresa May profile

:34:56. > :34:59.there. Iain, I want to start with you. When the manifesto came out, on

:35:00. > :35:02.this programme, said you didn't think much of the manifesto. I

:35:03. > :35:06.wonder what now, as you look back on this campaign, what you think went

:35:07. > :35:11.wrong with the campaign? Well, I think that film from Matthew Parris

:35:12. > :35:14.was absolutely outstanding. It told me things about Theresa May I didn't

:35:15. > :35:18.know. I thought it was really insightful. The problem with the

:35:19. > :35:22.manifesto was that it didn't compete with Labour's in terms of its

:35:23. > :35:27.vision, in terms of its eye-catching policies, in terms of its layout,

:35:28. > :35:30.indeed. There was nothing for Tory canvassers, I said at the time, to

:35:31. > :35:34.go out and sell on the doorstep. Because the social care policy

:35:35. > :35:38.unravelled within a few days, that always left them on the back foot.

:35:39. > :35:44.People are still mentioning that even today. To try to pretend that

:35:45. > :35:48.not having a cap and then having a cap wasn't a U-turn was just

:35:49. > :35:51.completely unsustainable. They were always on the back foot from that

:35:52. > :35:56.moment on. I think in the last week, since the Question Time debate, I

:35:57. > :35:58.think Theresa May has recovered her mojo somewhat and has come across in

:35:59. > :36:03.a different way to the previous couple of weeks. Polly, what do you

:36:04. > :36:08.think? What do you think about the Theresa May campaign? It clearly

:36:09. > :36:12.hasn't been what they wanted? No, it hasn't been. I think when Theresa

:36:13. > :36:18.May's really good is when she's absolutely on top of her brief. When

:36:19. > :36:22.she knows every in and out of. It on police reform, on gender equality

:36:23. > :36:26.she was really forensic on that. The problem with pulling together a

:36:27. > :36:30.manifesto for an entirety of Government in a few short weeks is

:36:31. > :36:34.that it require as lot more nip bellness and the ability to be

:36:35. > :36:38.flexible and get to grips with thing. They threw things in there at

:36:39. > :36:41.the last-minute, let's say something about fox-hunting and social care

:36:42. > :36:46.that looks brave. In the end it became a mish mash. When she's not

:36:47. > :36:54.fully briefed. When she's not in the detail, that is when the mistakes

:36:55. > :36:58.have been made. A fair point. Mr Crosby is supposed to know how to

:36:59. > :37:02.run a campaign? It didn't work in one or two other ones. I have been

:37:03. > :37:06.in the doorstep in constituencies in the north-west today. One thing

:37:07. > :37:11.nobody talks about is Theresa May. It's really interesting. As a Labour

:37:12. > :37:15.canvasser you get - I might not vote, I won't foe vote for you

:37:16. > :37:19.because of corp bin or a policy or people's circumstances change. There

:37:20. > :37:27.is no enthusiasm for her. I think... It's a strategic mistake. I know for

:37:28. > :37:34.a fact she's not - she walked into studios like this where I've been

:37:35. > :37:39.reporting, you have been presented, he she has won't meet a single

:37:40. > :37:45.ordinary person. We could count them on a couple of hands how many - she

:37:46. > :37:50.hasn't exposed herself to that amazing rocky rided that you go -

:37:51. > :37:54.that people like Corbyn go through where you meet real people. I want

:37:55. > :38:00.to ask an important question. This is the most important question for

:38:01. > :38:03.the country, perhaps. Is Theresa May better than the campaign has given

:38:04. > :38:07.the impression of her being? Many are saying, she hasn't looked good

:38:08. > :38:10.in this campaign. Is that because she isn't good or because the

:38:11. > :38:14.campaign has been rather badly handled, what do you think? She came

:38:15. > :38:17.into office as Prime Minister as a surprise. She wasn't expecting it to

:38:18. > :38:21.happen. It happened. We have nine months to judge her on as Prime

:38:22. > :38:24.Minister. I think she actually did really well in those nine months as

:38:25. > :38:29.Prime Minister. She proved she could doo-doo the job. She didn't come

:38:30. > :38:33.into TV studios every five minutes. Whiches her redcressor did quite a

:38:34. > :38:36.lot. A Prime Ministerial interview had a sense of occasion about that.

:38:37. > :38:40.I think that's probably right. I'm going to take Paul up on what he

:38:41. > :38:43.said, to say she hasn't met normal people during this campaign, of

:38:44. > :38:47.course what the TV cameras don't show is when she goes to factories

:38:48. > :38:50.she takes like 20 or 30 questions from the people in the audience.

:38:51. > :38:53.They are not always Conservative supporters. They are the people who

:38:54. > :38:58.work in the factories. Jeremy Corbyn in this campaign has been brilliant

:38:59. > :39:02.at attracting massive crowds of enthusiastic supporters. I haven't

:39:03. > :39:09.seen many occasions when he's interacted with normal people. He's

:39:10. > :39:16.done no phone-ins, for example. Paul, answer that point. The factory

:39:17. > :39:20.meetings are prevetted, they should be for security reasons. Let us

:39:21. > :39:24.leave that aside. If the Tories want to go into tomorrow believing

:39:25. > :39:27.Theresa May's invisibility because Jeremy Corbyn hasn't met any real

:39:28. > :39:32.people. Please, carry on, we will be happy for you to take the actions on

:39:33. > :39:38.that belief. Do you think Theresa May, Iain thinks she proved herself

:39:39. > :39:41.over nine months shechl may not be as confident in the campaign as

:39:42. > :39:44.Prime Minister, she's not as good on her feet and campaigning. What do

:39:45. > :39:48.you think it is though, do you think the campaign has been, sort of,

:39:49. > :39:51.unfairly... The problem with campaigns is they do require you to

:39:52. > :39:56.be a bit more human and relaxed and much more flexible. On your feet.

:39:57. > :40:01.Thinking very quickly? Exactly. I don't think that's your natural kind

:40:02. > :40:05.of... Does it matter for a Prime Minister. Do you needed to think on

:40:06. > :40:09.your feet or take a bit of time. What we expect you to do when

:40:10. > :40:13.campaigning but... Donald Trump's travel ban, for example, she was

:40:14. > :40:18.criticised for not being able to respond quickly. It took her hours

:40:19. > :40:22.and hours she needed a briefing from every department. That's her

:40:23. > :40:26.weakness. On the flip side of that, her strength is she does take a

:40:27. > :40:30.brief well. She thinks about things before she makes decisions. She's a

:40:31. > :40:34.Bert Prime Minister than she is campaigner. But the question is

:40:35. > :40:38.whether it's going - whether it damaged her leadership and that

:40:39. > :40:41.invisibility. Thank you very much. He we will come back for a longer

:40:42. > :40:53.discussion later. Chris Cook complains where the

:40:54. > :40:55.campaign has been fought and what that tells us. It's fitting that we

:40:56. > :41:01.give Chris one last outing. Can we learn something

:41:02. > :41:03.about what the parties are expecting tomorrow from where their leaders

:41:04. > :41:07.have been campaigning? If there is, the BBC

:41:08. > :41:09.Newsnight campaign tracker So to start, let's return be

:41:10. > :41:14.to a familiar graph. Each dot here represents

:41:15. > :41:19.a constituency where The furthest left seats

:41:20. > :41:24.are the safest Labour seats in 2015, the furthest right ones

:41:25. > :41:33.are the safest Tory seats from 2015. The most marginial ones

:41:34. > :41:36.are the ones in the middle. Looking vertically, the higher up

:41:37. > :41:39.seats are ones where Ukip got Now, these rings mark out

:41:40. > :41:42.where Theresa May has held the campaign visits since the Tory

:41:43. > :41:52.manifesto launch a month ago. more ambitious in her

:41:53. > :41:55.campaigning in areas She goes much further left

:41:56. > :41:59.in the higher Ukip areas, at the top of the chart,

:42:00. > :42:02.than she goes in in the low Ukip areas, at the bottom of the chart am

:42:03. > :42:06.can you use this chart to mark out the edges of what the Tories seem

:42:07. > :42:09.to think is possible. I suggest they imply the zone

:42:10. > :42:11.of gains is something like this. They seem to be targeting

:42:12. > :42:14.between around 30 and 50 extra seats Now, Ms May has only been

:42:15. > :42:18.to Scotland a few times, but trips by Ruth Davidson,

:42:19. > :42:20.the Scottish Tory leader, imply they're going for around

:42:21. > :42:23.ten seats up there. So it looks like the Tories

:42:24. > :42:25.are aiming for around Jeremy Corbyn's campaign though

:42:26. > :42:31.suggests something rather different. First, he's going to a lot

:42:32. > :42:34.of very safe Labour seats But that zone where Theresa May's

:42:35. > :42:54.been fighting, not so much. So we can't really easily draw

:42:55. > :42:57.in a similar sort of guesstimate about where he thinks

:42:58. > :42:59.the campaign is. It might be worth joining

:43:00. > :43:01.up a few dots here. So the first thing to note is,

:43:02. > :43:05.local TV news bulletins actually get bigger audiences and are more

:43:06. > :43:07.trusted than the national Secondly, it's worth noting that

:43:08. > :43:10.Mr Corbyn's rallies look Finally, while Mr Corbyn

:43:11. > :43:13.isn't going directly into those Tory target seats,

:43:14. > :43:17.he is going to lots of seats that So that means that images of his

:43:18. > :43:25.energetic, well attended rallies, will be broadcast into the marginals

:43:26. > :43:28.on the local news. This strategy also means he meets

:43:29. > :43:32.lots of party members, as he did tonight which,

:43:33. > :43:34.cynics note, will be a benefit Labour's events are certainly

:43:35. > :43:37.quite hard to read. The Tory intention of making big

:43:38. > :43:40.gains tomorrow though Let's carry on thinking about the

:43:41. > :43:56.campaign. One of the questions that leaps out

:43:57. > :43:59.as you observe the campaign is how politicians should engage

:44:00. > :44:01.with the public. You might have thought

:44:02. > :44:04.we were in for an era of less controlled messaging -

:44:05. > :44:05.hasn't Trump shown that a less buttoned up style

:44:06. > :44:07.of campaigning can appeal? You might have thought

:44:08. > :44:09.that, but this election was often very controlled -

:44:10. > :44:12.security has perhaps made John Sweeney looks at how

:44:13. > :44:19.things have changed. That's to say, if you are a little

:44:20. > :44:30.boy, I'm not a little girl! The art of political theatre,

:44:31. > :44:33.of how to handle hostile heckling Look at these performances

:44:34. > :44:41.by the masters. Within our tightly-controlled

:44:42. > :44:43.and rigidly expended Government expenditure programme

:44:44. > :44:46.for the next five years. We have no plans for

:44:47. > :44:53.expenditure in Vietnam. I saw you at the beginning

:44:54. > :45:02.of the week, you've been What the hell are you using

:45:03. > :45:15.for transport, helicopters? APPLAUSE Half a century on,

:45:16. > :45:24.things are rather different. Back in the day Robert Harris,

:45:25. > :45:29.formerly of Newsnight, reported on how control freakery

:45:30. > :45:33.was ruining British politics. Well, these allegations

:45:34. > :45:35.of a Prime Minister, female Prime Minister,

:45:36. > :45:36.avoiding all contact with journalists and with

:45:37. > :45:40.the public are not new. I mean, terrifyingly,

:45:41. > :45:42.a third of a century ago, as a much younger man,

:45:43. > :45:45.I came at the wrong end of an encounter with

:45:46. > :45:55.Margaret Thatcher who was touring This is what it is like being on the

:45:56. > :46:01.campaign trail with the Prime Minister... Voters everywhere and

:46:02. > :46:04.the work is not interested, it was just to get pictures of her in a

:46:05. > :46:08.factory with new technology. There are hundreds of members of the media

:46:09. > :46:12.who swarm around the Prime Minister, follow their every move and the idea

:46:13. > :46:16.from the Conservatives's point of view is to get the best possible

:46:17. > :46:21.exposure on the TV news that evening. That I think was a

:46:22. > :46:24.break-out, a new kind of election, American-style, copied from Ronald

:46:25. > :46:30.Reagan, where you did not do the monster rally. You didn't go out on

:46:31. > :46:37.the hustings, you just got good pictures of evening news. Back then

:46:38. > :46:44.politics was raw and brutal and much more fun. Mainly I find it helpful

:46:45. > :46:49.to invite them, say, I couldn't hear, say it again, and then they

:46:50. > :46:54.will come back. Even your Conservative leader described were

:46:55. > :47:08.dizzy as a police state. You would not last long there, my friend. --

:47:09. > :47:15.road easier. My friend, we do not support Savages, we just allow them

:47:16. > :47:20.to come to our meetings, that's all! There he goes, Neil Kinnock. By the

:47:21. > :47:25.early 1990s political control of recovery was the new normal. Don't

:47:26. > :47:31.let the people who take to the streets take your country. But then

:47:32. > :47:36.underdog John major dug out his soapbox from the attic. I caught up

:47:37. > :47:41.with him on the Tory campaign. Mr Major, could you video me for my

:47:42. > :47:47.video diary? You put the left hand through there. I think this isn't

:47:48. > :47:53.true. No, it's working. You can see me. This is a piece to camera. Would

:47:54. > :48:01.you mind putting your ties straight, you looks lovely! John Major's

:48:02. > :48:05.relative openness is all but gone. Jeremy Corbyn relishes campaigning

:48:06. > :48:12.but it would take a brave soul to hackle him. History tells us but

:48:13. > :48:18.just because your side loves you does not mean you will win. It was

:48:19. > :48:22.noticeable, the difference between Margaret Thatcher's campaign and

:48:23. > :48:27.Michael foot's campaign which was huge rallies, once he had 30,000

:48:28. > :48:33.people, much good it did him. Just how controlled is the Theresa May

:48:34. > :48:37.campaign? It is the flavour of an evangelical meeting, everyone here

:48:38. > :48:43.agrees with Saint Theresa but the problem is where is the argument,

:48:44. > :48:48.where is the challenge. To be fair reporters say she has been taking

:48:49. > :48:52.more questions in the past week but the Sage is not convinced. Something

:48:53. > :48:56.is wrong with this election. I think a lot of people feel it, no matter

:48:57. > :49:00.what the party is, that is that the Prime Minister in particular is not

:49:01. > :49:08.engaging with people and that is an offence to the electorate, it seems

:49:09. > :49:12.to me. Control may feel right for the political parties but one cannot

:49:13. > :49:16.but wonder whether our democracy is losing out.

:49:17. > :49:24.John Sweeney on the art of campaigning with the people. We are

:49:25. > :49:28.back with our panel, Iain Dale, Polly McKenzie, and Paul Mason. We

:49:29. > :49:31.will start this last section of the programme with getting their

:49:32. > :49:34.predictions for the election. I will ask them who they think will be the

:49:35. > :49:37.biggest party and what the size of the majority will be. Will it be a

:49:38. > :49:49.Tory majority of ten, 20, 30, 40, 200 or more? Iain Dale, will be the

:49:50. > :49:54.biggest party? You might not be surprised me to say Conservative.

:49:55. > :49:59.OK, so I have picked of the blue rosette. What are you suggesting, a

:50:00. > :50:04.majority? Have you got more than one was that because I want two goes. My

:50:05. > :50:08.gut feeling at the beginning of the campaign was a majority of 74 and

:50:09. > :50:11.part of me still believes that but I have done seat by set predictions

:50:12. > :50:16.and revised them over the weekend and it still comes up with a

:50:17. > :50:22.Conservative majority of 122. Shall we take the average and just call it

:50:23. > :50:29.a hundred? You do what you like, Evan! I will put them on 100. Polly,

:50:30. > :50:35.I have a yellow Lib Dem rosette for you if you wanted. Biggar they will

:50:36. > :50:39.not win this election with a majority, I'm pretty confident on

:50:40. > :50:45.that one. The Conservatives will be the biggest party. I am a bit more

:50:46. > :50:48.cautious than Iain because there has been such noise about social care in

:50:49. > :50:56.particular, and when you mess with people's houses, I think it affects

:50:57. > :51:01.turnout. So I would go 60. Majority of 60. YouGov, their model, they are

:51:02. > :51:07.getting a hung parliament. But you are going to 60 and Iain is going

:51:08. > :51:12.for 100. I'm not going to let you change. If you look seat by seat in

:51:13. > :51:16.the YouGov model it doesn't make sense, it is nonsense. Know, Paul. I

:51:17. > :51:19.think it was the day that the election was announced we had you on

:51:20. > :51:27.and you said you thought Labour would win. Could win! I think it was

:51:28. > :51:33.stronger than could win. What are you saying now. Heart and head

:51:34. > :51:37.prediction. My head tells me between 20 and 30 majority of the Tories.

:51:38. > :51:40.They will be the largest party because I think Labour will not claw

:51:41. > :51:45.back although we might get three seats in Scotland. The Tories the

:51:46. > :51:51.largest party, hung parliament, Progressive Alliance, bring it on.

:51:52. > :51:55.So perfectly possible hung parliament... My head says the deep

:51:56. > :52:02.but I will go with my heart, hung parliament, progressive alliance --

:52:03. > :52:08.my head says 30. Bring it on. It's like a sort of Vladimir Putin the

:52:09. > :52:14.style, is and has decided. We want to put a Jeremy Corbyn rosette. We

:52:15. > :52:22.want be anything like the biggest party. Will put in there. Paul,

:52:23. > :52:26.seriously -- we will not be anything like the biggest party. Ball, at the

:52:27. > :52:28.start of the campaign when the Tories had a big lead what we're

:52:29. > :52:36.thinking about predictions that Labour could win? I was pretty

:52:37. > :52:40.confident. You are always trying to assess Day by Day but I said on this

:52:41. > :52:46.programme that because of Theresa May's May three speech where she

:52:47. > :52:51.declared furball war, the Ukip vote collapsed in the polls. I said we

:52:52. > :52:57.must do something equally dramatic but I knew we would. I thought,

:52:58. > :53:00.?9,000 a year for students, ?9 a week for school dinner money is

:53:01. > :53:06.quite dramatic if you are earning about ?8 50 an hour, and on zero

:53:07. > :53:14.hours contract. The manifesto was the game changer. I knew it would.

:53:15. > :53:18.Let me ask you all. Theresa May, her ratings have gone down, is it

:53:19. > :53:24.because she is not good because her campaign is bad. Corbyn's ratings

:53:25. > :53:30.have gone up. Is it because he is a good campaign, Iain, or a good

:53:31. > :53:33.leader? He has run a much better campaign than even Paul thought he

:53:34. > :53:37.would, certainly better than I thought. He has relaxed into it,

:53:38. > :53:42.always a good thing for a politician to do. I think that Paul is

:53:43. > :53:47.clutching a few opinion poll straws in his prediction because it is only

:53:48. > :53:50.YouGov and one other polls showing these narrow Tory leads, there was

:53:51. > :53:55.one poll yesterday showing a one point Tory lead. And that was based

:53:56. > :54:01.on the premise that younger voters aged 18-24 would have a 90% turnout.

:54:02. > :54:05.Now YouGov have had similar modelling in their polls, Polly was

:54:06. > :54:10.right, their constituency predictions, they have Canterbury

:54:11. > :54:14.with a majority of 10,000 going to Labour, presumably because the whole

:54:15. > :54:20.of the University of Kent will vote Labour. They've got Anna Soubry

:54:21. > :54:22.losing his seat. Type in any constituency, it's lunacy. These

:54:23. > :54:31.pollsters will have a lot of egg on their face on Friday morning. But if

:54:32. > :54:34.they don't, I will! YouGov have been hedging their bets, adding in the

:54:35. > :54:41.people who don't know and widening the Tory lead. I think they are

:54:42. > :54:45.right because for Labour strategists not everything depends on the youth

:54:46. > :54:52.vote turning out but a lot does. The variables do. And there's another

:54:53. > :54:57.group. The mums and dads, mums and mums, parents with kids in primary

:54:58. > :55:02.school. Those are the people that I have found the most energised on the

:55:03. > :55:05.doorstep but it only takes for someone to fall over in the

:55:06. > :55:11.playground and you don't have time to vote. Turnout is a big thing for

:55:12. > :55:16.Labour. It will be big if it is pouring with rain. You are in the

:55:17. > :55:20.north-west of England! One interesting thing about this

:55:21. > :55:24.election is, normally you say, if you are ahead on the economy and the

:55:25. > :55:29.leader, that is worth more than being ahead in the polls and we

:55:30. > :55:33.should have done that last time, and David Cameron was had leadership

:55:34. > :55:37.over Ed Miliband and the Tories were ahead on the economy this election,

:55:38. > :55:43.it seems to have broken that rule. No one has talked about the economy

:55:44. > :55:47.really. We don't know because tomorrow it might be the fact that

:55:48. > :55:53.Theresa May is holding up on leader, still ahead in most of the testing,

:55:54. > :55:57.and also the Tories are still the most tested on the economy so it

:55:58. > :56:05.might be that that iron rule has not been broken. Iain, has been broken?

:56:06. > :56:08.The economy is the dog that hasn't barked, we haven't seen the

:56:09. > :56:12.Chancellor during this entire campaign, he is the scarlet

:56:13. > :56:15.Pimpernel of the campaign. Whether it is because Theresa May is keeping

:56:16. > :56:19.him locked in a box because she's going to sack him after the election

:56:20. > :56:23.depending on the size of the majority who knows. But I think the

:56:24. > :56:27.electorate should hear from the Chancellor of the Exchequer during

:56:28. > :56:30.the campaign, can you remember one single interview he's done in this

:56:31. > :56:38.campaign because I'm darned if I can. He did in early one on the

:56:39. > :56:41.Today programme. And there was that joint interview whether Labour sons

:56:42. > :56:47.did not add up and she would not endorse. All bets are off because of

:56:48. > :56:54.Brexit. It's like a bomb going off in the general world of politics

:56:55. > :57:02.that blows everything apart. And you've had all of the other events.

:57:03. > :57:08.You've got to take into account that people are feeling jangly and

:57:09. > :57:13.disorientated. It was the Brexit election and it has barely come up!

:57:14. > :57:17.Go on, Iain. You are right, and I said to my Tory friends, why are you

:57:18. > :57:21.not getting Brexit back on the agenda. That is where you can score

:57:22. > :57:25.a big majority in this election. They tried but they don't have

:57:26. > :57:30.anything new to say that they haven't said before. I think they

:57:31. > :57:34.help for Jean-Claude Juncker to say something controversial but he's

:57:35. > :57:38.kept remarkably silent in the last couple of days. But given what

:57:39. > :57:41.happened in London over the weekend and in Manchester I detect that

:57:42. > :57:45.there are a lot of people thinking about security in the last couple of

:57:46. > :57:48.days and you might think that if they did they would automatically be

:57:49. > :57:53.more inclined to vote Conservative. I am not sure that is entirely

:57:54. > :57:57.happening, certainly on my radio phone ins I find this huge

:57:58. > :58:01.enthusiasm among floating voters now for Jeremy Corbyn. Some say they

:58:02. > :58:05.will vote Tory because of the security issue, they feel safer with

:58:06. > :58:11.Theresa May. But it's not the overwhelming majority that you might

:58:12. > :58:16.expect. Yes, it has been a messy election. Theresa May's high point

:58:17. > :58:20.was that fight with Jean-Claude Juncker and his statement about, go

:58:21. > :58:25.away, you horrible Europeans which took to that great local election

:58:26. > :58:29.result. Since the manifestos, and I don't endorse that view Paul Howes

:58:30. > :58:34.of the Labour manifesto being magnificent, a smorgasbord of money

:58:35. > :58:37.and promises. We lurched about talking about this policy and that

:58:38. > :58:43.policy and then as Iain says moved on to the security issue towards the

:58:44. > :58:48.end where police cuts comes up again which is unfortunate because Diane

:58:49. > :58:53.Abbott messed up... Paul, quickly. And is not just the security

:58:54. > :58:57.problem, we feel under attack and very bruised and I think that Mass

:58:58. > :59:00.psychology of sadness and concern will never play into point scoring

:59:01. > :59:12.beyond what is reasonably acceptable. And

:59:13. > :59:15.we have got to that. It has made it an exceptional campaign, and it has

:59:16. > :59:16.been exceptional in other ways. Thank you all, next time we meet we

:59:17. > :59:22.will know the result. Well, that is it for this evening -

:59:23. > :59:25.and for this campaign. Now there is no Newsnight tomorrow -

:59:26. > :59:30.we're not missing much - just the day of the James Comey

:59:31. > :59:32.testimony to Congress But we know that in 24 hours

:59:33. > :59:36.from now, the only thing to do will be to speculate

:59:37. > :59:39.about the accuracy of the exit poll and you will be in good

:59:40. > :59:41.hands on that front. So in the meantime we leave

:59:42. > :59:45.you with a reminder that this isn't Let's leave the last word

:59:46. > :59:50.to the others, and we'll see