:00:00. > :00:07.It's been a grim spring and it's seen yet another terror
:00:08. > :00:28.We'll ask what we know of Islamophobic terror
:00:29. > :00:39.Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
:00:40. > :00:41.We've lost three months since invoking Article 50,
:00:42. > :00:44.but today, the Brexit bargaining actually began.
:00:45. > :00:49.Labour's Keir Starmer tells us whether they're offering
:00:50. > :00:52.the hard Brexit or the soft one, with free movement of people.
:00:53. > :00:55.And will there be a free movement of prime ministers?
:00:56. > :01:01.And I've learned more detail today of the turmoil inside Number 10.
:01:02. > :01:16.As terror strikes again, we see how it is dealt with,
:01:17. > :01:18.behind the scenes in a hospital coping with the aftermath of the
:01:19. > :01:34.Yet another attack, so similar to some we have seen.
:01:35. > :01:37.This one again used a vehicle as a weapon.
:01:38. > :01:40.But this time, the victims were not random - they were selected
:01:41. > :01:43.The police, the Prime Minister, the Mayor of London,
:01:44. > :01:46.all have gone out of their way to make clear they draw no
:01:47. > :01:48.distinction between the atrocities of Islamism madmen
:01:49. > :01:54.It was not just a hate crime, it was also terrorism.
:01:55. > :01:57.It came just after midnight last night, in the mixed area
:01:58. > :01:59.of Finsbury Park in London, near the mosque there,
:02:00. > :02:02.at a time when the Ramadan fast was over and several people
:02:03. > :02:06.were helping an elderly man who was taken ill on the pavement.
:02:07. > :02:09.John Sweeney has spent much of the day at the scene
:02:10. > :02:21.John, we can see quite a lot going on behind you there. What would you
:02:22. > :02:25.say the feeling is there tonight? Well, the feeling isn't much calmer,
:02:26. > :02:30.to be frank, than it was earlier today, when it felt very, very
:02:31. > :02:33.feverish. This community is one of the most mixed communities, all
:02:34. > :02:42.sorts, all religions, all kinds of people here. They are doing an
:02:43. > :02:46.extraordinary effort - Muslims, Anglicans, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs to
:02:47. > :02:50.get together and refind the glue. The other thing that's happening is
:02:51. > :02:55.we're finding more of the attacker. His family are saying, listen, he
:02:56. > :02:59.was a troubled man, but we no idea that he was racist. They've offered
:03:00. > :03:05.a big apology to the people who suffered in this attack. Let's
:03:06. > :03:12.remember, this was an attack on people practising their religion. It
:03:13. > :03:18.was solely targeted at Muslims and as well as the pressure from the
:03:19. > :03:22.good people to say we're all one, the forces of extremism almost
:03:23. > :03:31.seeking, you can almost feel it, trying to rip people apart. So, it
:03:32. > :03:35.feels as though, you've got two sets of extremists feeding off each other
:03:36. > :03:42.- the far right and the Islamist groups - trying to tear society
:03:43. > :03:48.asunder. The loser, it feels tonight, is common humanity.
:03:49. > :03:54.Every terror attack is different, but the weapon of choice for all
:03:55. > :04:01.attacks in London in the past four months has been a vehicle. Last
:04:02. > :04:04.night, the targets were Muslims, who had just finished praying at
:04:05. > :04:08.Finsbury Park Mosque. An elderly man had collapsed with a suspected heart
:04:09. > :04:13.attack. People were tending the sick man when they were hit by a van. The
:04:14. > :04:20.man died. It's not clear whether as a result of the van attack. 11
:04:21. > :04:24.people were injured. This footage, shot on mobile phones, shows the
:04:25. > :04:29.attacker being taken away by the police. He was named tonight as
:04:30. > :04:35.Darren Osborne from Cardiff, 47 years old. One of his neighbours
:04:36. > :04:40.told Newsnight that Osborne was an aggressive bully, feared by people
:04:41. > :04:44.who lived near him. As far as we can tell, he had no far right digital
:04:45. > :04:49.footprint. No known connection with far right groups and no trace that
:04:50. > :04:57.would have alerted security forces. He seems to have been, in other
:04:58. > :05:00.words, a clean skin. Today at Finsbury Park, the atmosphere jumped
:05:01. > :05:11.around, sometimes sober, sometimes feverish. But one sign of hope - it
:05:12. > :05:15.was the mosque's Imam who saved the man's life. We surrounded him and
:05:16. > :05:20.protected him from any form. We stops all forms after tack and abuse
:05:21. > :05:28.towards him, that was coming from every angle. Four terror attacks on
:05:29. > :05:31.the run have exhausted everyone, Prime Minister included. The
:05:32. > :05:36.terrible terrorist attack that took place last night was around evil act
:05:37. > :05:40.borne out of hatred, it has devastated a community. I'm pleased
:05:41. > :05:46.to have been here today to see the strength of that community coming
:05:47. > :05:49.together all faiths united in one desire to see extremism and hatred
:05:50. > :05:56.of all sorts driven out of our society. There is no place for this
:05:57. > :05:59.hatred in our country today. We need to work together as wurn society, as
:06:00. > :06:00.one community to drive it out this evil that is affecting so many
:06:01. > :06:15.families. So the Prime Minister has come to
:06:16. > :06:20.the mosque. She's list rned to people. Up get some indication of
:06:21. > :06:24.the anxiety of the Government. They want to keep this community on-side
:06:25. > :06:29.and clearly, the Prime Minister's visit here today means the
:06:30. > :06:36.Government is worried. Anger at the Government. Anger too at the media.
:06:37. > :06:39.A lot of people now, with the recent attacks in London, London Bridge,
:06:40. > :06:42.Manchester attacks, any person with no intellect would read this think,
:06:43. > :06:46.oh, Muslims, they're this, they're that. We have to fight back. We have
:06:47. > :06:50.to do this. But realistically speaking, this is the title the
:06:51. > :06:56.media has given it. Like I mentioned to you, murder is not from our
:06:57. > :06:59.religion. Any person who just reads this will think automatically
:07:00. > :07:03.related to Muslims, they will do things which they believe is
:07:04. > :07:06.revenge, but realistically it's a radical action where they have no
:07:07. > :07:13.clue what it's about whatsoever. Yeah, I do believe the media does
:07:14. > :07:19.play a big part. The official crime statistics haven't come in yet, but
:07:20. > :07:28.figures suggest after the Manchester terror atrocity hate crimes against
:07:29. > :07:33.Muslims spiked five fold. The highest ranking police officer in
:07:34. > :07:37.the country resigned last Tuesday. I was on duty and led the response for
:07:38. > :07:42.the murder of Lee Rigby. At that time we had mosque attacks, three of
:07:43. > :07:46.which were burned down. Very conscious of not having a replay
:07:47. > :07:50.when hate crime went up. It was very much in our strategy to be able to
:07:51. > :07:54.compound against that. In Westminster we did that. In
:07:55. > :07:57.Manchester it didn't quite work. By London Bridge, I think, it
:07:58. > :08:04.overwhelmed us. It's not that we haven't had a focus or we haven't
:08:05. > :08:08.had plans, we have. When you have three on the trot, it's something
:08:09. > :08:12.different. The goal of these terror attacks starting with the killing of
:08:13. > :08:17.Jo Cox last year and the three atrocities claimed by Islamic State
:08:18. > :08:25.in the last four months, and now this one, is to sow division between
:08:26. > :08:27.communities. The danger is - it's beginning to feel as if they're
:08:28. > :08:28.succeeding. Well, think about what far-right
:08:29. > :08:30.or Islamaphobic terror and Islamist On both sides, there is an adherence
:08:31. > :08:35.to the view that Muslims and the rest of us are not only
:08:36. > :08:38.in completely different tribes and that we are at
:08:39. > :08:40.war with each other. There is also the possibility that
:08:41. > :08:43.attackers of both creeds may have certain mental health conditions -
:08:44. > :08:46.as some have put it, losers who put meaning
:08:47. > :08:48.into their lives via hate. But despite the similarities,
:08:49. > :08:51.we have tended to be more preoccupied with Islamist terror,
:08:52. > :08:53.as the preponderance of recent attacks have come
:08:54. > :08:56.from that direction. I'm joined by journalist
:08:57. > :09:01.Nesrine Malik, William Baldet, who works on the Prevent programme
:09:02. > :09:04.for the Home Office, and Darren Carroll, who was an early
:09:05. > :09:06.member of the far-right English Defence League,
:09:07. > :09:15.and now campaigns against racism Very good evening to you all. Does
:09:16. > :09:19.it feel different to you, this is, it's very unusual. This is targeted
:09:20. > :09:23.at one group. It's not a random attack which would take Muslims and
:09:24. > :09:27.Christians and anybody else, targeted at a group. It does feel
:09:28. > :09:30.different for a couple of reasons. One is that it's clearly targeted
:09:31. > :09:35.towards Muslims. It's outside a mosque. It's during Ramadan. It's
:09:36. > :09:42.unequivocally a hate crime against Muslims. Number two, I think because
:09:43. > :09:47.it's come on the back of a rising wave of anti-Muslim attacks after
:09:48. > :09:53.Manchester and London Bridge etc, it seems like it's the culmination of
:09:54. > :10:01.an accelerating trend. Do you think the Islamic community is surprised,
:10:02. > :10:05.scared? I mean - I think, this has been, this is particularly strike,
:10:06. > :10:09.Islamophobic attacks have been part and parcel of the life of the Muslim
:10:10. > :10:13.community for a long time now, whether it's abuse against women who
:10:14. > :10:17.wear hijab. Whether it's incidents where people walking back from
:10:18. > :10:21.mosques are attacked. Give us an example of the sorts of things? I'm
:10:22. > :10:30.Notts advisably Muslim, I don't wear a hijab. When I move around Outside
:10:31. > :10:35.a mosque it's not as obvious with someone with a face cover or a man
:10:36. > :10:47.in a sort of cloak and beard. It's about people who are obviously
:10:48. > :10:51.advisably Muslim. Visibly Muslim. Darren, give us some insight into
:10:52. > :10:55.the mind set. You were an early member of EDL. What was going on in
:10:56. > :11:02.your life that attracted you to a message of hate? Well, at the time,
:11:03. > :11:08.in 2009, basically, I bought into the narrative of them and us.
:11:09. > :11:14.Personally, I felt looking back respectively, disenfranchised. I
:11:15. > :11:23.didn't - I didn't realise it then, but looking back, from the path I'm
:11:24. > :11:27.on now, I was. I wasn't happy with local governance and there was -
:11:28. > :11:31.There were, it had a big Muslim population and they had one or two
:11:32. > :11:37.more extreme elements there, is that right? It was quite divided and
:11:38. > :11:42.tribal? We were living our lives and the way we were living in Luton
:11:43. > :11:52.wasn't being portrayed correctly I felt via the media or local
:11:53. > :11:58.newspapers. Disenfranchised and kicked in basically. Vauxhall had
:11:59. > :12:04.shut a few years before that. You don't use the word "radicalised" of
:12:05. > :12:09.yourself. Due meet people -- did you meet people who were so hate filled
:12:10. > :12:14.they would commit violence? Yeah, I was on demonstrations where people
:12:15. > :12:17.were actually you know really angry and not getting their words out
:12:18. > :12:23.they're that angry. They're trying to say two or three words in one go
:12:24. > :12:30.they're that angry. Where that anger comes from, I can only say that
:12:31. > :12:34.they, they've bought into something. Whether that comes from seeing on TV
:12:35. > :12:42.there, that the media probably played it up a bit. However, there
:12:43. > :12:46.was genuine concerns also. You know, jobs, apprenticeships, housing. Life
:12:47. > :12:54.was a bit unfulfilled and so all this stuff - Yeah. In terms of how
:12:55. > :13:00.many far right people, does Prevent cover far right or is it just about
:13:01. > :13:05.Islamists? Prevent has covered far right formally since 2011. As a
:13:06. > :13:08.practitioner working in it since 2008, we've tackled it from the
:13:09. > :13:14.early days. I've gone on record of talking about a young lad I worked
:13:15. > :13:18.with who was ten years old immersed in neo-Nazi ideology by a family
:13:19. > :13:22.member that. Came as a shock. In the early days of prevent it was around
:13:23. > :13:25.the Al-Qaeda narrative. I was hearing communities come back at me
:13:26. > :13:30.and say actually there's other forms of extremism. An interesting thing
:13:31. > :13:38.is the case of some of these people who Darren was talking to or have
:13:39. > :13:42.beening conversationsing -- having conversations with, what narrative
:13:43. > :13:48.can you draw between them and the Islamist fan attics. If you take
:13:49. > :13:50.away the ideology of a young Islamist and the far right
:13:51. > :13:59.extremist, the individual below is very similar, the same psychological
:14:00. > :14:01.fwrackures, the same social -- fractures, the same social
:14:02. > :14:08.situations. They have gone for answers with the organisations. They
:14:09. > :14:12.present the world in binary terms, devicive. These are what the
:14:13. > :14:16.extremists are trying to do of both persuasions. We don't know whether
:14:17. > :14:22.Darren Osborne was involved in groups or had friends encouraging
:14:23. > :14:30.him. We know he was 47. That is... I mean that's not the kind of young
:14:31. > :14:31.hot head that you think of. In fact, Khalid Masood was 52. Is something
:14:32. > :14:43.happening here on age? Possibly. We are keen to tackle the
:14:44. > :14:47.entire age bracket. There was a lot done in colleges, trying to break
:14:48. > :14:50.down social stereotypes, particularly around Islam and
:14:51. > :14:55.Muslims. A lot of young people get their information from social media
:14:56. > :14:58.and the mainstream media, which can be culpable with painting negative
:14:59. > :15:03.stereotypes. We also work with people that are a lot older. We did
:15:04. > :15:08.some outreach around the far right specifically, in Prevent. We found a
:15:09. > :15:16.lot of younger people were quite well integrated and supported the
:15:17. > :15:19.Muslim community centres, but their parents still harboured deeply
:15:20. > :15:22.racist and anxious sentiments towards Muslims. Let's talk a little
:15:23. > :15:28.bit about the media coverage. There was some anger today that we have
:15:29. > :15:31.drawn the comparison between these two EU types, but people say you
:15:32. > :15:36.just dismiss one lot as mental health problems and the other lot
:15:37. > :15:46.are organised terrorism? It's a very common response. There are two
:15:47. > :15:51.things, whenever there is an attack by a Muslim, the media portrays it
:15:52. > :15:58.as a coordinated, coherent culpability on behalf of all
:15:59. > :16:03.Muslims. That's not fair, nobody says it is all Muslims, everybody is
:16:04. > :16:05.careful to make sure... I'm not saying everybody does that, I am
:16:06. > :16:11.saying there is a perception that happens. Certain words are used,
:16:12. > :16:17.certain languages used. People asked questions like, what is the Muslim
:16:18. > :16:21.community's response? People get the impression that there is a
:16:22. > :16:27.generalised culpability. That impression is also reinforced when
:16:28. > :16:33.the attacker is not Muslim, the language is around the fact that he
:16:34. > :16:42.is a misfit, he is vulnerable. We hope that around the Jo Cox murder
:16:43. > :16:46.-- we heard some of that around the Jo Cox murder, the tabloid saying
:16:47. > :16:52.that he had fears about losing his council house. Trying to explain it?
:16:53. > :17:03.Which is fine... But do it for both sides. It is an issue of individual
:17:04. > :17:08.disenfranchise. But it can't be for one and not the other. How did you
:17:09. > :17:15.get out of it? Gradually is the answer. You end up not liking
:17:16. > :17:21.yourself and where you are. You have to fall back on... You go back to
:17:22. > :17:26.basics. That's what I did. I thought, who am I? I don't like
:17:27. > :17:31.myself. That's what I did, I fell back on my upbringing. I lost my
:17:32. > :17:36.parents when I was 13. I fell back on my mother's voice telling me,
:17:37. > :17:41.you're not this person. That was the beginning for me. I couldn't stomach
:17:42. > :17:42.it any more, I really couldn't stomach it. Gradually, is the
:17:43. > :17:46.answer. Thank you all very much. We are four days short
:17:47. > :17:49.of the first anniversary A lot has happened in that time -
:17:50. > :17:57.except any Brexit negotiations. We invoked Article 50
:17:58. > :18:00.at the end of March, so we know exactly when the talks
:18:01. > :18:03.end and when we are We can give our countdown clock
:18:04. > :18:10.a quick appearance - 648 days to go. It's very Sky News, this kind
:18:11. > :18:13.of thing, but it does make the point that a lot of work has to be done
:18:14. > :18:17.in relatively short time. Today's talks started
:18:18. > :18:18.on some specifics of That is in itself interesting,
:18:19. > :18:23.because there was a time when the Brits had wanted talks
:18:24. > :18:26.on trade to be With no sign of that today,
:18:27. > :18:48.we can take it as a small Did they actually negotiate a day,
:18:49. > :18:53.or was this really just a formality, a formal start? I think they did. I
:18:54. > :18:59.think, really, what we have learned is a turn-off the notch, as it were,
:19:00. > :19:07.on the positioning and sequencing of this bigger negotiation. We have
:19:08. > :19:13.learned a bit more. We know the EU was prioritising the future status
:19:14. > :19:17.of citizens in the UK. That is number one. Number two is the budget
:19:18. > :19:21.question. Only after substantial process has been agreed, and we have
:19:22. > :19:25.confirmed that progress will be a judgment by the member governments,
:19:26. > :19:29.through Donald Tusk, the President of the council. They will make a
:19:30. > :19:36.judgment as to whether these broader issues can then be discussed, or
:19:37. > :19:43.discussion can begin on those. Then there is the question of the Irish
:19:44. > :19:47.border. What will the arrangements be? We thought that was on an equal
:19:48. > :19:51.level with the money, the status of the citizens. But it definitely
:19:52. > :19:54.seems to be somewhat behind, probably because it's going to take
:19:55. > :19:59.longer and they think it is more reasonable to ask for progress on
:20:00. > :20:02.the first two before the broader relationship, the possible shape of
:20:03. > :20:08.a trade deal in its very broadest sense, begins to come under
:20:09. > :20:11.discussion. What we have seen, because we have seen different
:20:12. > :20:15.drafts of these EU negotiating guidelines in recent months, is the
:20:16. > :20:18.EU position being carried forward very hard to make the same
:20:19. > :20:23.comparison for the UK position, because it has been kept under
:20:24. > :20:27.wraps, largely. We get the sense that the UK is going to try to take
:20:28. > :20:31.the initiative on citizens in one another's countries issue, the key
:20:32. > :20:35.one come on Thursday, when Theresa May comes to Brussels. That they
:20:36. > :20:41.will put forward their position, but all the time everyone here is aware
:20:42. > :20:46.of the tenuous state now of Theresa May's government following the
:20:47. > :20:50.election. All of this could come open to question or be sniped at
:20:51. > :20:58.politically back home because of the state of the UK Government.
:20:59. > :21:06.There are diplomatic arguments for secrecy, but here they have been
:21:07. > :21:10.trumped by politics. Today's EU watchword is transparency. That
:21:11. > :21:13.means, amongst other things, being clear about your negotiating
:21:14. > :21:19.priority and how they have been affected by the recent UK election.
:21:20. > :21:28.A fair deal is possible, and far better than no deal. That is what I
:21:29. > :21:39.said to David today. That is why we will work all the time, with the UK,
:21:40. > :21:45.and never against the UK. Here in the institutions of EU power, the
:21:46. > :21:47.loss of Theresa May's majority has awakened fears that a complete
:21:48. > :21:55.failure to reach agreement is looking more likely, with everything
:21:56. > :21:58.that might involve. Sophie is a senior Brexit negotiator for the
:21:59. > :22:01.European Parliament. I know that some people claim that no deal is
:22:02. > :22:07.better than a bad deal, and that sounds really tough. But if you
:22:08. > :22:13.think of the consequences, what no deal would mean, legally speaking it
:22:14. > :22:17.would be best for clear. From midnight, the 29th of March, 2019,
:22:18. > :22:22.Britain is no longer a member. From one moment to the next, there will
:22:23. > :22:26.be chaos. No deal means chaos. Brussels is notoriously leaky. That
:22:27. > :22:31.is another reason to emphasise transparency. The European
:22:32. > :22:36.Parliament, as well as 27 government is being updated regularly, means
:22:37. > :22:42.nothing will stay secret for long. Some here see risks in that, also.
:22:43. > :22:48.It can also backfire, in the sense that it can lead to a lot of
:22:49. > :22:51.posturing from many sides. That posturing may sour the atmosphere in
:22:52. > :22:56.a way that makes a deal more difficult. Theresa May, she has been
:22:57. > :23:01.dramatically weakened by the election. But I would advise to the
:23:02. > :23:05.27 not to try to take too much advantage of that. Again, that may
:23:06. > :23:12.backfire. A diplomatic mountain must now be scaled. The two chief
:23:13. > :23:18.negotiators are meeting for the first formal talks today to settle
:23:19. > :23:22.the order in which shoes will be tackled, exchanged suitably Alpine
:23:23. > :23:28.gifts. Today, it is clear that the sequencing is very much the way the
:23:29. > :23:31.EU wanted it, which inevitably puts questions to David Davis. It's not
:23:32. > :23:35.how it starts, it is how it finishes. The UK has been crystal
:23:36. > :23:39.clear about our approach to negotiations. The withdrawal process
:23:40. > :23:43.cannot be concluded without the future relationship also been taken
:23:44. > :23:48.into account. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. The
:23:49. > :23:54.negotiators shared a convivial lunch and their personal rapport seems
:23:55. > :23:58.real enough. But diplomats must fear that today marks the beginning of
:23:59. > :24:02.their minister being judged by a press and Parliament keen to find,
:24:03. > :24:08.in each course of negotiations, the bitter taste of a promise broken or
:24:09. > :24:10.a commitment rashly made. Those chief negotiators emphasise their
:24:11. > :24:17.commitment today to maximum transparency. The difference, you
:24:18. > :24:20.might argue, is that Michel Barnier actually means it. Talk to people in
:24:21. > :24:26.the commission and you will hear those who argue that the more
:24:27. > :24:30.Britain learns about the daily detail of these negotiations, the
:24:31. > :24:36.harder it will be for Theresa May to keep her querulous party together
:24:37. > :24:41.and behind the Brexit plan. Does transparency make it harder for a
:24:42. > :24:51.British Government to manage the message on Brexit? Well, you know,
:24:52. > :24:56.that is one way of looking at it. The UK and EU are not adversaries.
:24:57. > :25:03.We are not negotiating against each other. There has to be a win-win
:25:04. > :25:07.outcome. There cannot be different messages. I do think that
:25:08. > :25:12.transparency is going to help create the trust that we need, both in the
:25:13. > :25:17.UK and in the other EU countries for people to support the process. For
:25:18. > :25:21.months, EU leaders have been asking London to say what it wants from
:25:22. > :25:25.Brexit. That is now well under way. But many here now wonder whether the
:25:26. > :25:29.UK Government can stick to its platform.
:25:30. > :25:32.We did want to speak to a Government minister on the approach
:25:33. > :25:38.to Brexit negotiations, but none was available.
:25:39. > :25:42.But then some of them have only been in a job for a week.
:25:43. > :25:44.However, with a hung Parliament, Labour's position could be quite
:25:45. > :25:46.important in the next two years if it's clear.
:25:47. > :25:49.Earlier, I spoke to the shadow Brexit secretary, Sir Keir Starmer.
:25:50. > :25:54.I began by asking him whether it was a negotiation or a dictation.
:25:55. > :25:57.Well, it's a negotiation, but we got off to the worst possible starts,
:25:58. > :25:59.because the Prime Minister called an election that she
:26:00. > :26:11.It's not clear what her mandate is and she's lost authority abroad.
:26:12. > :26:13.Now, all of us want these talks to succeed because we need
:26:14. > :26:16.a good deal for Britain that is going to last
:26:17. > :26:19.We've got off to the worst possible start, I'm afraid.
:26:20. > :26:27.Customs union, you've been a little equivocal on the customs union.
:26:28. > :26:31.But I think if I reduce your position to the clearest,
:26:32. > :26:34.and what would make sense from your point of view,
:26:35. > :26:37.you would start out by saying yes, let's go into the customs union
:26:38. > :26:39.if they'll have us, even if that means we can't
:26:40. > :26:41.make free trade deals with other countries independently?
:26:42. > :26:47.But it is important to focus on outcomes and not the model.
:26:48. > :26:51.That's really important, because we're starting negotiations
:26:52. > :26:54.and the question that's before everybody is what is it
:26:55. > :27:00.The vehicle, or the model, is secondary to that.
:27:01. > :27:01.We've been clear that it's tariff-free access
:27:02. > :27:05.to the single market, it's no new customs impediments
:27:06. > :27:07.and it's something that works for services.
:27:08. > :27:10.But, interestingly, that is a thing that everybody agrees on.
:27:11. > :27:14.The EU will then have its priorities.
:27:15. > :27:18.I think its priorities are likely to be how do we guarantee or ensure
:27:19. > :27:20.that the UK wouldn't be able to undercut regulations
:27:21. > :27:26.Because that would, to them, be a threat.
:27:27. > :27:29.So that goes on the table and we have to negotiate.
:27:30. > :27:32.I can't understand why you can't make your mind on the customs union.
:27:33. > :27:35.It's a very simple one, you stay in the customs union,
:27:36. > :27:38.probably, but you give up your right to free trade deals.
:27:39. > :27:40.You're in favour of that or you're not, it's quite binary.
:27:41. > :27:46.As far as the customs union is concerned, the question
:27:47. > :27:49.whether it's better to be in or out can only be determined
:27:50. > :27:51.further down the line, because you need to know first
:27:52. > :27:54.what's the deal you've done on the single market.
:27:55. > :27:57.Does it, the end of the exercise, make more sense to
:27:58. > :28:00.There are advantages of being out, there are advantages,
:28:01. > :28:02.significant advantages, of being in.
:28:03. > :28:05.So, that's why we say leave it on the table.
:28:06. > :28:08.There are advantages, it solves a lot of real difficulties.
:28:09. > :28:11.Of course it means you can't strike free trade agreements.
:28:12. > :28:16.But, and it's important to see this through,
:28:17. > :28:25.But if you stay in, you could take the benefit of those trade deals
:28:26. > :28:28.that the EU is striking, and which we could strike with them.
:28:29. > :28:30.But there's an element of fudge in the Labour position.
:28:31. > :28:36.It's probably designed to hold together a broad coalition of many
:28:37. > :28:38.blue-collar workers who voted Brexit, many metropolitan
:28:39. > :28:40.liberals who voted remain, and you're trying to effectively be
:28:41. > :28:48.We should be in the customs union, because that's going to help car
:28:49. > :28:51.producers, it's going to mean no border in Northern Ireland
:28:52. > :28:56.Well why don't you just make the case and say,
:28:57. > :28:59.why don't we just go in and make that the objective?
:29:00. > :29:00.Because until you're further into negotiations,
:29:01. > :29:02.it's not entirely clear whether it's the right option
:29:03. > :29:08.I think we should have it on the table and there are real
:29:09. > :29:11.But to suggest this is just a political fudge is wrong.
:29:12. > :29:14.Let's talk about the migration issue, because there is one option
:29:15. > :29:17.that would probably cut through a lot of negotiation.
:29:18. > :29:19.I think everybody agrees that complete free movement
:29:20. > :29:22.You're not in favour of that, nor are the Conservatives.
:29:23. > :29:24.But there's a kind of watered-down version of free movement,
:29:25. > :29:31.If you have a job, you can come here.
:29:32. > :29:35.But you can't just come here and live here without any work to do.
:29:36. > :29:40.Because they may be quite attracted to that, the EU.
:29:41. > :29:50.We'd have to work out what that looked like.
:29:51. > :29:52.But with freedom of movement, immigration,
:29:53. > :29:55.Obviously refugees we have obligations to, students should
:29:56. > :29:59.That leaves you families and people that want to come to work.
:30:00. > :30:02.I think that we could strike a model that deals with people
:30:03. > :30:06.Because, whatever the outcome, it's got to work for the economy
:30:07. > :30:09.We don't want arbitrary caps on migration that
:30:10. > :30:13.You see, I think you've got a quite clear position.
:30:14. > :30:16.But you sure as hell don't make it sound clear.
:30:17. > :30:18.Thank you for giving me this opportunity.
:30:19. > :30:20.You should go in and say free movement of labour,
:30:21. > :30:22.in the customs union, we won't strike deals
:30:23. > :30:30.It will save us a lot of time in this negotiation, it
:30:31. > :30:32.solves Northern Ireland, we'll recognise the citizens.
:30:33. > :30:33.Incidentally, you'd accept ECJ, the European Court having
:30:34. > :30:36.jurisdiction over various issues as well, so that cuts
:30:37. > :30:41.Just to be clear on that, we said that there has to be some
:30:42. > :30:43.dispute resolution mechanism, a court-like body.
:30:44. > :30:45.That's a big hole in Theresa May's plans.
:30:46. > :30:51.I think there is discussion to be had about what that looks
:30:52. > :30:56.like and what the role of British judges are on it.
:30:57. > :31:11.Desperate to get the clarity there, even if it means my summarising what
:31:12. > :31:14.he's saying. Day one of the negotiation is done.
:31:15. > :31:17.Let's take stock with our political editor, Nick Watt.
:31:18. > :31:23.Everybody is asking - is Theresa May's weakened position going to
:31:24. > :31:26.affect this, is she even going to make the running for the 18 months
:31:27. > :31:29.of negotiation. What's the thinking? The numbers in Parliament have moved
:31:30. > :31:34.in a mildly soft Brexit direction. The Prime Minister is weakened after
:31:35. > :31:40.that general election result. I have to say, I do not detect a love for
:31:41. > :31:44.Theresa May in the Tory Party. Cabinet ministers are saying they
:31:45. > :31:49.think she's had a loss of nerve over the election setback and also over
:31:50. > :31:53.her response to the tower fire. One Cabinet minister, who's a Loyalist
:31:54. > :31:58.said to me, "She can stay, if she wants to." I sense that some
:31:59. > :32:01.grandees are warming up to say to Theresa May, have your Queen's
:32:02. > :32:04.Speech on Wednesday, get the vote through next week, then maybe you
:32:05. > :32:08.should think about going, because if you don't, you will face a veil of
:32:09. > :32:13.tears although it is important to say that the leading Brexiteers are
:32:14. > :32:17.determined to save her. Interestingly, the Prime Minister is
:32:18. > :32:22.responding to these concerns, I'm told, that intriguingly, she's been
:32:23. > :32:26.distancing herself from her controversial former joint chiefs of
:32:27. > :32:30.staff who were criticised for being uncollegiate. I'm told that she's
:32:31. > :32:35.been saying to ministers that she didn't know the extent of their
:32:36. > :32:40.activities that alienated so many people. As for how long she wants to
:32:41. > :32:45.stay, I'm told she believes it's her duty to stay and her definitive view
:32:46. > :32:49.is - she wants to stay for the entirety of the Article 50 talks
:32:50. > :32:51.which means at least, as you were saying earlier, until the end of
:32:52. > :32:55.March 2019. Thank. The death toll from the Grenfell
:32:56. > :32:57.Tower fire rose again today. A total of 79 people are now either
:32:58. > :33:00.dead or missing, presumed The victims of the fire
:33:01. > :33:06.were remembered this morning The job of investigating
:33:07. > :33:27.what the exact cause was goes on but, six days on from the fire,
:33:28. > :33:30.the Department for Communities and Local Government has written
:33:31. > :33:32.to local council and housing association chief executives
:33:33. > :33:35.in England requiring them to look Our investigations man Phil Kemp has
:33:36. > :33:39.been researching the tower fire and the issue of cladding for us,
:33:40. > :33:50.and is here now. Phil, just tell us about this letter
:33:51. > :33:55.and the debate over cladding? The investigations are continuing as to
:33:56. > :33:57.the precise cause. It seems to the Department for Communities and Local
:33:58. > :34:03.Government isn't taking any chances. I've got a copy of an e-mail that
:34:04. > :34:07.the most senior civil serve abt at DCLG sent to the chief executives of
:34:08. > :34:11.all local authorities and Housing Associations in England with
:34:12. > :34:15.instructions to check the cladding on any high-rise social housing that
:34:16. > :34:18.they're responsible for. Specifically, what they're being
:34:19. > :34:22.asked to look for is the type of cladding that we revealed last week
:34:23. > :34:27.was used on the Grenfell Tower refurbishment. Now what this letter
:34:28. > :34:30.says is that if any local authorities or Housing Associations
:34:31. > :34:34.identify that type of cladding, even if they're not sure exactly what
:34:35. > :34:40.it's made of or what's in it, they have to send it away for testing at
:34:41. > :34:44.the Government's expense. It doesn't go on to say what happens next, but
:34:45. > :34:49.you can imagine that if the wrong sort of cladding is identified, that
:34:50. > :34:58.it's going to have to come down. Wow. I mean one of the big issues
:34:59. > :35:04.and it's been amazing it hasn't been resolved is this cladding compliant
:35:05. > :35:08.with the regulations? Philip Hammond said he didn't think it was allowed.
:35:09. > :35:14.What is the truth? It's a matter of sow man ticks. It's not banned for
:35:15. > :35:19.taller buildings. There are strict rules around its use. If you want to
:35:20. > :35:23.use flammable type of cladding on a high-rise building in England, you
:35:24. > :35:27.would need to show it had passed a special bespoke test involving the
:35:28. > :35:34.entire wall system and an expert that we spoke to said that this type
:35:35. > :35:39.of cladding was unlikely to pass that test. For all practical
:35:40. > :35:42.purposes, this type of cladding is banned for tall buildings in
:35:43. > :35:44.England. That's what this letter is about, to decide how widespread the
:35:45. > :35:46.use of this material S A lot has happened recently
:35:47. > :35:49.to suggest we are living Brexit and politics are one thing,
:35:50. > :35:52.repeated terror attacks So on a day that has
:35:53. > :35:57.seen a deliberate attack on Muslims outside a mosque,
:35:58. > :36:00.we thought you might be interested - even uplifted - to see what goes
:36:01. > :36:03.on behind the scenes in the event The television production company
:36:04. > :36:09.Label One make the BBC two documentary series Hospital,
:36:10. > :36:11.and they were filming in St Mary's Hospital in London
:36:12. > :36:14.on the day of the Westminster Bridge Their cameras were there,
:36:15. > :36:19.as those dreadful events unfolded. The full documentary
:36:20. > :36:22.is on BBC Two tomorrow, but we have a few minutes of it now,
:36:23. > :36:26.showing how that one hospital Good afternoon, ladies
:36:27. > :36:41.and gentleman, we're here to review It would be nice to see some
:36:42. > :36:52.of the hard to recruits... We're on stand by for a major
:36:53. > :37:00.incident at Westminster Bridge? They've given a standby
:37:01. > :37:11.with 15 accepting. REPORTER: There is a major police
:37:12. > :37:15.operation under way. St Mary's Hospital
:37:16. > :37:19.in Paddington is one of four major trauma centres
:37:20. > :37:22.in London capable of dealing Three miles from Westminster,
:37:23. > :37:28.it's the nearest to the scene of a Lesley is taking silver
:37:29. > :37:38.and Judy taking bronze. During a major incident,
:37:39. > :37:42.the hospital follows 194-page set of protocols, standby means prepare
:37:43. > :37:47.to receive casualties. Anybody else who was elected
:37:48. > :37:50.for today who hasn't gone knife to skin,
:37:51. > :37:56.they need to be sent home. We need a collation of A
:37:57. > :37:59.receiving spaces, trauma receiving spaces and a running
:38:00. > :38:05.collation of beds available now. It's 12 minutes since the hospital
:38:06. > :38:10.was put on standby. Off duty medical and nursing staff
:38:11. > :38:14.arrive to assist in A The bleep goes off, your phone goes
:38:15. > :38:17.off and you come in. Everybody just be quiet
:38:18. > :38:33.in resus for the moment. The first person to arrive in A
:38:34. > :38:48.is the alleged attacker. We're going to transfer alongside
:38:49. > :38:55.to our right side, please. The first casualty
:38:56. > :39:27.that's arrived has died. We will set up a mortuary,
:39:28. > :39:32.he will go there and police guard. People are jumping in
:39:33. > :39:34.the river to escape. This is what's come
:39:35. > :39:42.through from the antiterrorism. Paramedics have been treating
:39:43. > :39:58.victims at the scene. The first victim to arrive
:39:59. > :40:14.at St Mary's was a French schoolboy. Today was the last day
:40:15. > :40:30.of a school trip to London. We're going to get a collar on,
:40:31. > :40:34.log roll him, get him off the scoop, covered up, warm,
:40:35. > :40:36.fast scan, set of bloods Victor's school friend
:40:37. > :40:50.arrives in A 18-year-old Jan has lost
:40:51. > :40:57.a dangerous amount of blood He's taken for immediate
:40:58. > :41:04.life-saving surgery. It's 40 minutes since
:41:05. > :41:17.Victor arrived in A His condition is now stable
:41:18. > :41:19.and does not require On an average day,
:41:20. > :41:50.St Mary's treats three In the last 80 minutes, six have
:41:51. > :41:58.arrived from Westminster. Jan, the French teenager, has had
:41:59. > :42:18.his scalp successfully repaired. I can guarantee you the minute I get
:42:19. > :42:22.on the Tube, the reality of this will start to hit home in that
:42:23. > :42:25.what we've got here are individuals whose lives have probably
:42:26. > :42:28.been massively altered So as much of a shock that this
:42:29. > :42:34.was to us, can you - you can't even begin to imagine
:42:35. > :42:38.what it's like for these poor And you can see that documentary
:42:39. > :43:16.in full tomorrow at 9pm on BBC Two. Good evening to you. Another
:43:17. > :43:17.scorching hot day across the south. Temperatures got up