:00:16. > :00:21.I do not think it would be right for me to be the captain that steers our
:00:22. > :00:25.country to its next dexter nation. We are living through an important
:00:26. > :00:32.moment in our country's history. That is now statistically...
:00:33. > :00:39.Notification from Prime Minister Theresa May triggering Article 50.
:00:40. > :00:44.Mathematically they are... Every vote for the Conservatives will make
:00:45. > :00:50.me stronger. They don't have an overall majority at this stage, but
:00:51. > :00:57.the Leave campaign have won. This will go down in our history as our
:00:58. > :01:00.Independence Day! Not in terms of the way people voted, because all
:01:01. > :01:03.the we said it would be a close run thing, but in terms of the
:01:04. > :01:07.turnaround for British foreign policy, British policy towards the
:01:08. > :01:18.EU, the EU, the British people have spoken and the answer is we're out.
:01:19. > :01:20.The vote to leave happened in a single day.
:01:21. > :01:22.The moment of truth delivered one mesmerizing night.
:01:23. > :01:25.Yet if anyone believed that decision would shut down debate on Europe -
:01:26. > :01:29.A year on this country feels restless, febrile,
:01:30. > :01:35.In 12 months we've seen it all - a change of leader, a general
:01:36. > :01:37.election, attacks on our freedom and our way of life,
:01:38. > :01:40.and the kind of human tragedy that makes us question the very values
:01:41. > :01:44.When we voted for Brexit, we chose to steer this country
:01:45. > :01:47.in a different direction - to tear up, as George Orwell might
:01:48. > :02:01.say, the human mind and put it together in new shapes.
:02:02. > :02:02.Yet suddenly the trajectory seems anything but clear.
:02:03. > :02:05.So tonight we draw breath - we devote this evening,
:02:06. > :02:08.the Brexit anniversary, to asking if we are the same country
:02:09. > :02:11.And are we more or less divided on what we want?
:02:12. > :02:14.But before we reflect on the past 12 months,
:02:15. > :02:16.we assess the day - Mark Urban has followed
:02:17. > :02:25.Emily, I think there has been an element of, thank God, we are now
:02:26. > :02:28.moving on this. The move from Theresa May on citizens' rights was
:02:29. > :02:32.tabled just before this anniversary day and it at least started
:02:33. > :02:37.colouring what Britain means by Brexit, but overall it has not been
:02:38. > :02:43.a very positive reaction, summed up by the person who represents the 27
:02:44. > :02:46.governments, well, 28 in fact, but in this case, the 27, EU President
:02:47. > :02:48.Donald Tusk. My first impression is that the UK's
:02:49. > :02:51.offer is below our expectations and that it risks worsening
:02:52. > :02:53.the situation of citizens. But it will be for our negotiating
:02:54. > :02:57.team to analyse the offer line by As a matter of fact,
:02:58. > :03:07.Brexit got very little time We devoted most of our work
:03:08. > :03:10.to addressing people's concerns over security, illegal migration
:03:11. > :03:25.and uncontrolled globalisation. Well, there you have it. He is
:03:26. > :03:28.saying, well, it doesn't look like it will preserve the rights they
:03:29. > :03:32.have now, and you might say you do not expect that, if we are leaving
:03:33. > :03:36.the EU, for everything to be exactly the same, but actually it is the
:03:37. > :03:40.beginning of the negotiation, and he says we spent most of our time
:03:41. > :03:44.talking about other stuff, we get it, game on. Doesn't tell you
:03:45. > :03:49.anything about how negotiations are going in general? What it does tell
:03:50. > :03:54.you is these two key issues where the EU 27 are absolutely united and
:03:55. > :03:58.feel very strongly, Citizens' rights and the budget, where they are
:03:59. > :04:03.determined to see substantial progress, and that will be a tough
:04:04. > :04:06.initial negotiation. Some people in Downing Street are suggesting there
:04:07. > :04:13.might be sufficient progress, to use the term coined, on those two core
:04:14. > :04:16.issues, by October, to start addressing the bigger package, the
:04:17. > :04:21.future relationship. I think that is incredibly optimistic. I mean, we
:04:22. > :04:25.can see by the way they are now saying, let's pull apart this offer
:04:26. > :04:28.on Citizens' rights line by line, bound to happen in negotiations of
:04:29. > :04:31.this kind, the budget negotiations can be difficult, and all that is
:04:32. > :04:36.tough and is going to take time, many months I think. I think it will
:04:37. > :04:44.be a difficult process, a technical process, hard even sometimes to
:04:45. > :04:46.follow but each tiny twist and turn of negotiations logic will tell us.
:04:47. > :04:49.I am glad you said that, Mark. The Brexit referendum,
:04:50. > :04:51.everyone says, revealed It just revealed those divisions
:04:52. > :05:07.in statistical form. It is a year since
:05:08. > :05:12.we bought our Brexit. But our flat packed
:05:13. > :05:14.future did not come with any instructions as to how
:05:15. > :05:17.to put the thing together, or even what it should
:05:18. > :05:19.look like when it is So have we done little more
:05:20. > :05:23.in the last 12 months than lay all the bits out on the carpet
:05:24. > :05:26.and argue about what goes where? Everything that has happened
:05:27. > :05:28.since the referendum, I would suggest, has compounded
:05:29. > :05:31.those divides, rather We have just had a general
:05:32. > :05:33.election that has seen a big polarisation around age -
:05:34. > :05:36.we have seen youth turnout increase significantly, and we have seen
:05:37. > :05:43.the pro-Remain areas mobilise significantly, much in a way
:05:44. > :05:52.the pro-Leave areas mobilised, but the map of British politics now
:05:53. > :05:56.is I think one that looks far away from the map of a nation
:05:57. > :05:58.that is coming together. It is more like a map of a nation
:05:59. > :06:02.that is being pulled apart. It will strengthen my hand in those
:06:03. > :06:07.important Brexit negotiations. The fact that Theresa May didn't get
:06:08. > :06:16.a majority has emboldened those who campaigned to remain to believe
:06:17. > :06:22.that we can end up, not staying in the EU,
:06:23. > :06:24.but with a very different I think that were Theresa
:06:25. > :06:28.May to have got the overwhelming majority
:06:29. > :06:29.that she hoped for, we would have known more or less
:06:30. > :06:32.what the UK position was and therefore what the final
:06:33. > :06:34.deal might be. I think the election puts
:06:35. > :06:36.everything into doubt. I think parliamentary arithmetic
:06:37. > :06:40.is not there for the kind of Brexit the Government was
:06:41. > :06:43.pursuing and I think it is all to I don't understand why
:06:44. > :06:47.people on the Remain side are feeling emboldened,
:06:48. > :06:49.because if you look at the parties who are talking about,
:06:50. > :06:51.for example, staying part of the single market
:06:52. > :06:52.or having a second referendum, parties
:06:53. > :06:55.like the Liberal Democrats, the Green Party, and the SNP, their vote
:06:56. > :06:58.share actually went down in the general election, so I don't think
:06:59. > :07:01.people on the Remain side should feel they have got any form
:07:02. > :07:04.of mandate from the election. Indeed, there is little
:07:05. > :07:10.evidence that the public have changed their minds on Brexit
:07:11. > :07:13.in the year since the referendum. One poll since the general
:07:14. > :07:16.election suggests a more or less even split between Remain
:07:17. > :07:29.and Leave supporters, but around half
:07:30. > :07:30.of Remain supporters, 26% of all voters,
:07:31. > :07:37.are now dubbed Re-Leavers,
:07:38. > :07:40.that is they think the Government now has a duty
:07:41. > :07:42.to deliver on the referendum result
:07:43. > :07:44.and that leaves just 21%, of so-called hard Remainers,
:07:45. > :07:46.who want a second I think one key reason why support
:07:47. > :07:50.from Brexit has gone from 52% last year to I would say
:07:51. > :07:54.70% now in the polls is because some of the people who are on the Remain
:07:55. > :07:57.side voted Remain because they feared for the economy, they
:07:58. > :08:00.believed the Project Fear that the Government was talking
:08:01. > :08:03.about and actually now they have seen that the economy
:08:04. > :08:09.is doing well and that Brexit has not led to a collapse in growth
:08:10. > :08:12.and an increase in unemployment, they are actually quite comfortable
:08:13. > :08:14.with the decision that So how can it be that
:08:15. > :08:17.Theresa May does not have a mandate for her Brexit plans
:08:18. > :08:20.but there is no evidence that the British people had
:08:21. > :08:22.changed their minds? Well, the answer seems to be
:08:23. > :08:24.in Labour's extremely nuanced The fascinating thing
:08:25. > :08:27.about Labour's performance in the election is that not only did
:08:28. > :08:30.they see their vote go up typically by around
:08:31. > :08:37.13 points in the most pro-Remain areas, but their vote
:08:38. > :08:40.also went up by about half that much in the Leave areas and that is what
:08:41. > :08:43.stopped Theresa May and her team from really converting all of that
:08:44. > :08:46.pro-Brexit Labour territory into Conservative gains that would
:08:47. > :08:48.otherwise offset their losses How on earth is that coalition
:08:49. > :08:52.going to be sustained Because inevitably Jeremy Corbyn is
:08:53. > :09:00.going to have to stand on the stage at some point and make a firm
:09:01. > :09:03.position on free movement, the single market,
:09:04. > :09:05.the customs union and so on. Brexit is not just being built
:09:06. > :09:08.by Britain alone, but with the other EU members with
:09:09. > :09:10.whom we are negotiating. Since our election, both
:09:11. > :09:12.the French President and the President of the European Council
:09:13. > :09:20.have suggested that the UK could in And they will have noticed comments
:09:21. > :09:23.this week by the Chancellor Philip Hammond who appeared to contradict
:09:24. > :09:27.Theresa May's assertion that no deal is better than a bad deal. He, it
:09:28. > :09:32.appears, has in mind a long transitional arrangement. I think
:09:33. > :09:37.the transition, and how we get to any final deal is really no in the
:09:38. > :09:41.frame. The Chancellor Philip Hammond -- really now in the frame. The
:09:42. > :09:45.Chancellor is saying, what do we want those arrangements to be? I
:09:46. > :09:49.think the length of that transition is also really interesting. It could
:09:50. > :09:55.be five years and some are saying up to ten years, making sure that the
:09:56. > :10:01.transition is smooth, not some knee jerk change. But might at long
:10:02. > :10:05.lingering goodbye to the EU risk a political backlash? I think a large
:10:06. > :10:08.portion of the electorate will walk away from this entire exercise
:10:09. > :10:15.feeling even more disillusioned and more frustrated, and I think and
:10:16. > :10:24.fear that that outcome would be the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a
:10:25. > :10:29.populist fire that is already raging. Hardly anyone is suggesting
:10:30. > :10:34.packing up on Brexit and reversing the decision of a year ago, but the
:10:35. > :10:38.29th of March 2019 is a date to keep in mind, that is when we leave and
:10:39. > :10:43.something substantial has to be built. That was David Crossman.
:10:44. > :10:47.Andrea Leadsom was one of the most prominent Leave campaigners -
:10:48. > :10:49.she ran for the Conservative leadership in the heady days
:10:50. > :10:52.after last year's referendum, only to be beaten by Theresa May.
:10:53. > :10:54.She's now Leader of the House of Commons.
:10:55. > :10:56.Earlier I spoke to her from her constituency
:10:57. > :11:03.I began by Haskin what she thought of Donald Tusk's allegation that
:11:04. > :11:10.Theresa May's proposal risk worsening the
:11:11. > :11:15.situation of EU citizens. I think it was a generous offer and I think it
:11:16. > :11:18.is also important that the EU Commission stick to their side of
:11:19. > :11:20.the negotiations. You would not really expect them to say, thanks
:11:21. > :11:26.very much, that's wonderful, so I think we will see a lot more of that
:11:27. > :11:30.in the days to come. Isn't it funny, though, when we have Donald Tusk
:11:31. > :11:34.saying it is not good enough, and you're the president of EU saying he
:11:35. > :11:39.hasn't got a clue what the UK wants from Brexit, doesn't that worry you?
:11:40. > :11:42.Not at all. As I said, when you are in a negotiation you don't
:11:43. > :11:45.immediately jump around clapping your hands with glee at the first
:11:46. > :11:49.sign. You do the opposite in fact. You see, that is not enough, we need
:11:50. > :11:55.more, and that is what you would expect. But this should be a pretty
:11:56. > :11:58.simple place to start, and we are a Uronen, as you have said, from that
:11:59. > :12:02.vote, and they can't agree on the first thing they are trying to talk
:12:03. > :12:07.about. Do you think that is just politics? -- we are one year on, as
:12:08. > :12:11.you have said. Theresa May give her a very initial comments to the
:12:12. > :12:14.meeting of the EU Council to explain to them the generous offer that we
:12:15. > :12:20.will be making, which is right that we should do that. We want to do it.
:12:21. > :12:24.And of course EU negotiators will start off by saying, you know, we
:12:25. > :12:28.need to see the detail, it's a good start but... You would expect that.
:12:29. > :12:32.I think we will see a lot of the negotiations and the sort of
:12:33. > :12:37.handling of negotiations is going to be a challenging time, but we are
:12:38. > :12:41.determined to continue with a good relationship with our EU friends and
:12:42. > :12:45.colleagues. We are weaker than ever before. She has gone to the country,
:12:46. > :12:48.she didn't get the mandate she wanted and she does not have a
:12:49. > :12:53.strong position from which to negotiate. That is the blunt truth.
:12:54. > :12:57.Well, you know, Theresa May isn't of course satisfied with the majority
:12:58. > :13:03.that we managed to get at the last election, but we are the biggest
:13:04. > :13:08.party in government. It is not just our opportunity but it is also our
:13:09. > :13:11.duty to create a government, to take this country forward, to do
:13:12. > :13:16.everything we can to make a success of leaving the EU. We've done a huge
:13:17. > :13:17.amount of work on preparations for these negotiations, our hand is very
:13:18. > :13:18.strong. You've got a negotiating position
:13:19. > :13:21.which is completely unclear. You're hearing that from
:13:22. > :13:23.the president of the EU Parliament. We've got a political
:13:24. > :13:25.system which is unstable, many believe our economy is unfair,
:13:26. > :13:28.living standards are falling. What can you point to now
:13:29. > :13:44.and say, that's going well? European politicians are actually
:13:45. > :13:45.very keen we keep a strong relationship going for and that is
:13:46. > :13:52.what we going to do. And it's actually the elected
:13:53. > :13:54.politicians who are the important But come on, Miss Leadsom -
:13:55. > :13:58.you haven't even got a deal They're laughing at us and saying
:13:59. > :14:03.they can walk all over Well, that's blatantly
:14:04. > :14:05.not true, is it? Angela Merkel said it was
:14:06. > :14:07.an interesting start. We had Mark Rutte saying
:14:08. > :14:09.he was quite positive We had various different EU
:14:10. > :14:12.politicians, the elected politicians, saying it's
:14:13. > :14:14.a good start. Of course it's very
:14:15. > :14:16.early days, but... It has been a year and
:14:17. > :14:20.these crucial issues... It would be helpful if broadcasters
:14:21. > :14:23.were willing to be a bit patriotic - This government is
:14:24. > :14:26.determined to deliver... Are you accusing me of being
:14:27. > :14:30.unpatriotic for questioning how negotiations are going,
:14:31. > :14:31.questioning whether you have the position of strength
:14:32. > :14:34.that she said she wanted? I'm not accusing you
:14:35. > :14:37.of anything, Emily. I'm simply saying we all need
:14:38. > :14:40.to pull together as a country. We took a decision and year ago
:14:41. > :14:53.today to leave the European Union. You are now a minority Government
:14:54. > :14:56.but you're reading of the public mood is to push on with the same
:14:57. > :15:00.plans for Brexit that you always had. Is that right, nothing has
:15:01. > :15:05.changed in your mind? As the Prime Minister said, we are leaving the
:15:06. > :15:08.EU. We are not leading Europe. So our negotiation to deliver a strong
:15:09. > :15:12.deal that works for all of us remains absolutely at the heart of
:15:13. > :15:29.what we are doing. Do you regret that the election was called? I
:15:30. > :15:33.don't at all. Of course we don't have the numbers in Parliament, we
:15:34. > :15:35.accept that and of course we are disappointed about that, but what it
:15:36. > :15:38.means... The whole direction of Brexit is now up in the air. You
:15:39. > :15:41.know that. If I can just finished... You didn't get a huge majority. This
:15:42. > :15:43.was a sign from the country that they are questioning it. Over 85% of
:15:44. > :15:45.people voted for parties that were accepted the result of the
:15:46. > :15:48.referendum last year. What we actually now have is a government
:15:49. > :16:01.that will be listening so carefully across parties, hearing what other
:16:02. > :16:08.partiesparties' ideas are, working to try to get the legislation
:16:09. > :16:17.through... Angela M, thank you. -- Andrea Leadsom, thank you.
:16:18. > :16:20.Whether you took your numbers from the side of a bus,
:16:21. > :16:21.or read encyclopaedically from the Office for
:16:22. > :16:23.Budget Responsibility, the Brexit campaign was brashly
:16:24. > :16:24.and noisily centred around the economy.
:16:25. > :16:30.A year on the pound has slumped, manufacturing has jumped,
:16:31. > :16:32.the markets are up but so is inflation.
:16:33. > :16:34.So what exactly has the prospect of Brexit done to us?
:16:35. > :16:37.Our policy editor Chris Cook brings his numbers to it.
:16:38. > :16:39.The economic consequences of Brexit will take years to play out,
:16:40. > :16:42.but what can we say about what's happened so far?
:16:43. > :16:47.Now, it hasn't been terribly quick lately, and things have slowed
:16:48. > :16:50.down a little recently, but behaviour since June last year
:16:51. > :16:52.it is not markedly different to what went before.
:16:53. > :16:57.You get a similar pattern if you look at unemployment -
:16:58. > :17:00.it was drifting down before last June, it's drifting down now.
:17:01. > :17:06.The biggest economic consequence so far, though,
:17:07. > :17:12.Sterling dropped down a step in June last year,
:17:13. > :17:15.and despite recovering a little it remains 12.5% below the position
:17:16. > :17:21.it held in the month before the referendum.
:17:22. > :17:23.Cheaper sterling makes imports more expensive, so one consequence
:17:24. > :17:29.This is the annual rate of change in the consumer price index,
:17:30. > :17:32.which has shot up to nearly 3%, and that in turn has
:17:33. > :17:38.Once you take account of that inflation, this graph shows how fast
:17:39. > :17:40.wages have been growing, and in recent months
:17:41. > :17:45.we have returned to falling living standards.
:17:46. > :17:48.This is hardly unprecedented - in recent years sluggish or negative
:17:49. > :17:52.pay growth has been one of our top problems.
:17:53. > :17:54.The Brexit vote, though, seems to have rekindled
:17:55. > :18:06.So are we the same country that voted to leave 12 months ago.
:18:07. > :18:09.Is the optimism of the Brexiteers and the scepticism of
:18:10. > :18:13.Should we put those terms to bed once and for all?
:18:14. > :18:15.Joining me now, journalist Jonathan Freedland and Kerry Anne Mendoza -
:18:16. > :18:17.editor of the Canary - who voted remain.
:18:18. > :18:19.Tim Martin - Chairman of Wetherspoons and Robert Toombs
:18:20. > :18:28.the historian who voted to Leave the EU.
:18:29. > :18:35.It is a pleasure to have you all here. Tell you wrote frequently for
:18:36. > :18:43.Wetherspoon news and played as big a part as anyone in this debate. Do
:18:44. > :18:48.you think you lead your customers in the right direction? I would hope
:18:49. > :18:55.that we did. In the paper which is read by a couple of million people,
:18:56. > :19:02.we put the views of Remain and Leave and I think we presented it fairly
:19:03. > :19:06.and I would like to think that we decided the referendum and the
:19:07. > :19:11.election. Your editorial voice was very strong in bringing people with
:19:12. > :19:15.you on the road to Brexit? It is difficult to say how many are
:19:16. > :19:21.brought. A lot of people think about say something, they do the opposite.
:19:22. > :19:25.Do you see yourself now as a reliever or would you say that the
:19:26. > :19:30.defining question is no longer whether we are in or out, do you
:19:31. > :19:34.feel that we have moved on. We have bigger questions to answer. Theresa
:19:35. > :19:38.May call the election saying that she needed a mandate to conduct
:19:39. > :19:42.these negotiations and she has lost that mandate and he said that the
:19:43. > :19:48.alternative was a Coalition of chaos, that is another broken
:19:49. > :19:51.promise. Now we have the utter chaos, no Coalition. The
:19:52. > :19:57.Conservative government in recent years has delivered a zombie economy
:19:58. > :20:00.and now we have a zombie government clinging onto power. We are told by
:20:01. > :20:04.people around Theresa May that she has a profound sense of duty and I
:20:05. > :20:11.think if that is true, she needs to do the dutiful thing and resign.
:20:12. > :20:15.This, Jonathan, this has become a different debate, it is about values
:20:16. > :20:22.and austerity, not really about our connection to the EU any more. I
:20:23. > :20:26.think all roads come back to that. The fundamental question of our
:20:27. > :20:31.relationship with Europe. That will be the dominant question. We have of
:20:32. > :20:35.government committed to extricating us from the European Union on a
:20:36. > :20:40.timetable that now looks realistic. The climate of the country I think
:20:41. > :20:46.has changed. I can think of a couple of examples. One is the election of
:20:47. > :20:49.Donald Trump. If you imagine that choice now, leave the European Union
:20:50. > :20:54.and trade with America, that was one kind of argument when President
:20:55. > :20:59.Obama was in the White House, now it is a completely different argument.
:21:00. > :21:02.If you think it was the other way round, it would be a different
:21:03. > :21:06.answer? It is hypothetical. The climate would have been different.
:21:07. > :21:12.Young people. They turned out in big numbers and we know that last year
:21:13. > :21:17.they did not do it incomparable numbers. Had they, we know that
:21:18. > :21:23.their inclination was towards Remain. Those facts mean that the
:21:24. > :21:26.climate has changed. One of the most powerful things said was on the
:21:27. > :21:31.Leave side, David Davis said our democracy has the right to change
:21:32. > :21:35.its mind, otherwise it is not a democracy. There are these impish
:21:36. > :21:40.overtures from European leaders saying that the door is still open,
:21:41. > :21:47.everyone, I can be a dreamer, are they trying to stir up trouble? Or
:21:48. > :21:52.are they saying, you can treat this still as a democracy and change your
:21:53. > :21:57.mind again? How do you read that? I think the EU leaders, are thoroughly
:21:58. > :22:00.committed to the EU as an idea and it is difficult for them to
:22:01. > :22:04.understand that we might not be. The EU has a record of getting countries
:22:05. > :22:09.to change their minds once they have voted and it is natural for them to
:22:10. > :22:13.think like -- that we like the Dutch, the French and the Danes
:22:14. > :22:16.might change our mind. They are also trying to weaken the bargaining
:22:17. > :22:21.position of the government. They will not offer us more than they
:22:22. > :22:25.have to. That is why I think the danger of our present situation is
:22:26. > :22:28.this appearance of uncertainty. If you are uncertain, then the people
:22:29. > :22:33.who disagree with you will take advantage. Do you think, Robert,
:22:34. > :22:38.that the key issue is that we have at a referendum on if we Brexit but
:22:39. > :22:44.no one has had a chance to vote on the Brexit that will happen? The
:22:45. > :22:47.negotiations have started, still with the British public completely
:22:48. > :22:50.in the dark about what Brexit looks like. Shouldn't there be another
:22:51. > :23:01.Democratic intervention down the line? The thing about another vote
:23:02. > :23:07.is, the decision was subcontracted to the people to say, do you want to
:23:08. > :23:11.stay or leave? They voted to leave. They could not have known the exact
:23:12. > :23:15.terms and the government today cannot know the exact terms. I think
:23:16. > :23:19.people make too much about what the exact terms will be. It is the
:23:20. > :23:24.difference between do you want to move house or do you want to move
:23:25. > :23:28.into this house. Once people decide who has, it is a decision but they
:23:29. > :23:34.would not buy the next hours without seeing it. They took that risk.
:23:35. > :23:38.People said, we have not seen the house but we are moving. What you're
:23:39. > :23:43.pointing to now is still this sense of division in the country and I am
:23:44. > :23:47.wondering if you think we're any closer to reconciliation now one
:23:48. > :23:54.year on whether you think post that election it feels wider than ever. I
:23:55. > :24:00.think it depends on getting decent terms. In that case, it seems to be
:24:01. > :24:03.that is the only thing that can bring about reconciliation. The
:24:04. > :24:09.number of people who are determined to stay in the EU is quite a small
:24:10. > :24:13.proportion of the population and the majority that were either for Leave
:24:14. > :24:16.or at least lukewarm about the EU and afraid of the economic
:24:17. > :24:20.consequences, if we get a solution that shows that the economic
:24:21. > :24:24.consequences are firmly OK, then I think that the fear and the
:24:25. > :24:29.rejection of the idea of Brexit were largely disappear. I think you're
:24:30. > :24:34.talking rationally but when you hear a politician aligning patriotism
:24:35. > :24:39.with support for Brexit negotiations, I am wondering, I
:24:40. > :24:43.don't know, what you feel? That was incredibly unhelpful. I think the
:24:44. > :24:47.whole language that this referendum has been conducted and has been
:24:48. > :24:55.appalling. You cannot call people who voted for Brexit ignorant bigots
:24:56. > :24:59.and the ones who voted Remain elitists and unpatriotic. There were
:25:00. > :25:05.legitimate reasons to vote each way and now all other should be working
:25:06. > :25:08.together. I agree but I want to say something about your reconciliation
:25:09. > :25:13.point because that was beginning to happen even on the Remain side.
:25:14. > :25:16.People budget was about to win a majority and she would negotiate
:25:17. > :25:20.hard Brexit, we were just going to have to get but the programme. Then
:25:21. > :25:24.there was the result of the election, she offered no other
:25:25. > :25:33.positive programme. She asked for the mandate and the country said no.
:25:34. > :25:40.85% of people voted for parties which were in favour of Brexit. You
:25:41. > :25:49.hear it as a soft Remainer -- Remainer vote. Labour's position was
:25:50. > :25:53.both at once. It was both Remain and Leave. That is one of the reasons
:25:54. > :26:03.they did well. That was the reading initially. Actually, only 18% of
:26:04. > :26:11.former Ukip voters went to Labour. Where was Ukip in the whole thing?
:26:12. > :26:14.Both the main parties said we are in favour of Brexit and 85% of people
:26:15. > :26:19.voted for them and you cannot turn around now and say there is doubt
:26:20. > :26:25.about whether the country is in favour of Brexit. Maybe there is an
:26:26. > :26:30.element of hypocrisy on both side... You're being very consolatory
:26:31. > :26:38.tonight. Contrary to popular opinion. The whole Brexit argument
:26:39. > :26:41.was predicated on the idea of democracy, about taking back
:26:42. > :26:47.control, but the British public having their say and they do not
:26:48. > :26:51.think we can then say, it is somehow anti-democratic to give the public
:26:52. > :26:56.another say... Did Remainers feel they were pulling against the
:26:57. > :26:59.national mood, was there an embarrassment before the election
:27:00. > :27:05.that has now changed? You would have been quiet about the fact, maybe not
:27:06. > :27:08.quite, but Remainers would not felt comfortable saying that they still
:27:09. > :27:14.disagree. It would sound as if you are trying to turn the clock. The
:27:15. > :27:20.election shows that everything is up for grabs. You have seen the
:27:21. > :27:25.trajectory of history. Do you see this as another turning point? Yes.
:27:26. > :27:32.A sort of turning point or it could be. The problem is of uncertainty.
:27:33. > :27:36.Democracy is a wonderful thing. Thinking practice of what would
:27:37. > :27:40.happen if you were to have a second vote. All of our partners in the EU
:27:41. > :27:44.would say these people do not know what they want, give them a hard
:27:45. > :27:48.deal and they will vote to stay in. We do not control the terms of the
:27:49. > :27:52.outcome and to start saying, we have devoted on the outcome means that we
:27:53. > :27:57.will almost certainly get a bad outcome. What is the alternative. We
:27:58. > :28:01.will get a terrible deal and we will have to swallow it. There is no
:28:02. > :28:06.terrible deal we can get, the worst deal you can get is to trade on
:28:07. > :28:14.World Trade Organisation. It is not a bad deal. We trade with America,
:28:15. > :28:20.China, India... 44% of our experts do not rely on America. This is
:28:21. > :28:24.almost the impossible one. I want to come back to a sense of national
:28:25. > :28:29.mood. We are in a place now where it feels like wave after wave, a period
:28:30. > :28:34.of national sharks whether it is political earthquakes or security
:28:35. > :28:38.scares off human disasters, leaving many questioning our values now. Do
:28:39. > :28:42.you feel as you sit here tonight that there is a bright future for
:28:43. > :28:48.this country, a sort of cohesive place that we are going? Briefly.
:28:49. > :28:51.The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. There is no reason to
:28:52. > :28:56.think that the country is in a long-term crisis. I agree with Jim,
:28:57. > :29:00.there is no reason to think that the outcome will be economically
:29:01. > :29:05.damaging. If we stick to our guns, perhaps that is to military a
:29:06. > :29:08.metaphor, if we follow a sensible and decent negotiating strategy
:29:09. > :29:13.there is no reason to think we should not have a good outcome. One
:29:14. > :29:17.of the big arguments after the referendum and during it was the
:29:18. > :29:20.notion that there were two tribes in this country, there were the urban
:29:21. > :29:23.and cosmopolitan people and then there were those who still had
:29:24. > :29:28.British values of community. We have seen in areas that would have been
:29:29. > :29:34.labelled classic urban and cosmopolitan areas, we saw them
:29:35. > :29:39.those are real communities were people really pulled together, there
:29:40. > :29:41.is no monopoly on patriotism and reddish values on either side. On
:29:42. > :29:44.that note, we must end. But before we go, legendary cricket
:29:45. > :30:08.commentator Henry Blofeld today After the exceptional heat, things
:30:09. > :30:12.have gone back to normal. Just in time for the Wigan. Quite a mixed
:30:13. > :30:16.picture. Across England and Wales there will be large areas of cloud.
:30:17. > :30:18.Some patchy rain at times, some