:00:00. > :00:12.Now they're being pushed out of Raqqa, their de
:00:13. > :00:24.These fighters are coming up against IS snipers in these streets.
:00:25. > :00:26.Other about they've got drones, they've got suicide bombers.
:00:27. > :00:28.This is going to be a very, very hard fight.
:00:29. > :00:30.Advancing forces are discovering the horrors of life
:00:31. > :00:44.Women are on the front line of the war against Isis,
:00:45. > :01:09.So far so good for those that want to see the back of Isis.
:01:10. > :01:13.We'll ask if the Isis ideology will live on,
:01:14. > :01:15.and what happens in the region when the common enemy
:01:16. > :01:20.Also tonight, is this a time for rivals to pull together
:01:21. > :01:28.There are many issues on which I would hope
:01:29. > :01:30.that we will be able to achieve consensus across this house.
:01:31. > :01:33.If the Prime Minister would like it I am very happy
:01:34. > :01:38.to furnish her with a copy of our election manifesto.
:01:39. > :01:41.And we are often told what machines can do these days.
:01:42. > :01:45.What do we humans bring to the party?
:01:46. > :01:47.Two renowned authors tell us how to prepare your children
:01:48. > :02:03.Isis has been defeated in Mosul - the Iraqi prime minister Haider
:02:04. > :02:06.al-Abadi declared victory today on a visit to the city.
:02:07. > :02:11.The so-called Islamic State - with its dreams of a caliphate that
:02:12. > :02:14.straddles national borders - is even more "so-called" now,
:02:15. > :02:18.it's been left with very little in that country -
:02:19. > :02:22.certainly no hub or centre to hold things together.
:02:23. > :02:29.Satisfying as that win is for those who detest Isis,
:02:30. > :02:31.defeating it once and for all is a three-step process
:02:32. > :02:35.The second is to achieve the same in Syria, which means
:02:36. > :02:40.As you'll see in a minute, that struggle is well underway now.
:02:41. > :02:42.The third step is likely to be the hardest -
:02:43. > :02:45.that is about bringing order to the region to remove
:02:46. > :02:46.the bitterness out of which Isis thrives.
:02:47. > :02:50.Cleaning up a region full of messy and overlapping
:02:51. > :02:52.rivalries and tensions - Kurds and Turks, Sunni
:02:53. > :02:54.and Shia plus a lot of foreign powers -
:02:55. > :03:01.But let's go back to that second step, the battle for Raqqa in Syria.
:03:02. > :03:06.Gabriel Gatehouse, along with cameraman Fred Scot
:03:07. > :03:10.and producer Peter Emmerson, have been with those forces,
:03:11. > :03:23.and this his film, on how the battle is being conducted.
:03:24. > :03:37.In Raqqa, Islamic State is making its final stand.
:03:38. > :03:41.Fighting their way into the heart of the caliphate, a fragile
:03:42. > :03:45.coalition of powers, great and small, of Arabs
:03:46. > :04:21.This is more than the final showdown with IS in its capital.
:04:22. > :04:24.I can believe in why I might die, I can die for something
:04:25. > :04:28.Raqqa might be the end of one fight but the beginning of another,
:04:29. > :04:31.a battle for territory, both physical and ideological.
:04:32. > :04:35.They will get there in the end and when they do, the fall of Raqqa
:04:36. > :04:40.will probably mean the end of the caliphate but it won't mean
:04:41. > :04:49.the end of Isis' ideology and it also won't mean the end of this war.
:04:50. > :04:56.This story begins not in Iraq but in Kobani.
:04:57. > :04:59.This story begins not in Raqqa but in Kobani.
:05:00. > :05:01.What remains of this largely Kurdish city stands as a monument
:05:02. > :05:08.to a brutal turning point in the war against Islamic State.
:05:09. > :05:11.It was here that IS reached its high water mark, its territory extending
:05:12. > :05:27.It was here that it met its first significant defeat.
:05:28. > :05:29.Commander Song-huin played her part in that.
:05:30. > :05:40.The cemetery in Kobani testifies to just how high a price Kurdish
:05:41. > :06:13.fighters have already paid in the war against IS.
:06:14. > :06:16.For the Kurds, this is part of a wider battle.
:06:17. > :06:23.For a long held dream of self-determination.
:06:24. > :06:26.But for the commander, the youngest of 11 children
:06:27. > :07:14.in a conservative society, it's also personal.
:07:15. > :07:18.Today, she is in command of around 1,000 fighters
:07:19. > :07:27.Periods of intense fighting are punctuated
:07:28. > :07:37.Together, these men and women make up the Syrian
:07:38. > :07:46.An alliance that includes Arabs but is led by the Kurds.
:07:47. > :07:49.Their success against IS has come thanks in no small part to backing
:07:50. > :07:55.The Americans have quietly built up a presence on the ground, providing
:07:56. > :08:04.With their help, the SDF have chased Islamic State out
:08:05. > :08:06.of Kurdish areas and beyond, reaching across the Euphrates
:08:07. > :08:09.and into mainly Arab territory to the West.
:08:10. > :08:17.The SDF took this city last August after two and a half
:08:18. > :08:28.Here, the Islamic State would sit in judgment over people they deemed
:08:29. > :08:37.Punishments would be meted out in the car park opposite.
:08:38. > :08:43.A local shopkeeper witnessed many of their gruesome executions.
:08:44. > :08:45.Even though IS is gone from here now, he asked
:08:46. > :09:22.us not to reveal his identity for fear of reprisal.
:09:23. > :09:34.Down in the basement, their brutal legacy lingers like a ghost.
:09:35. > :09:51.In this dungeon, IS tortured its prisoners.
:09:52. > :09:58.A policeman showed us the cell where his uncle was kept.
:09:59. > :10:12.When they let him out, after four days, they had
:10:13. > :10:28.In a vast graveyard in the centre of Manbij, its fighters have smashed
:10:29. > :10:39.And even though Islamic State has been chased out of town that doesn't
:10:40. > :11:15.From Manbij we get a sense of what lies ahead.
:11:16. > :11:20.It has been a long road to the capital of the caliphate.
:11:21. > :11:28.The final stretch may be the hardest yet.
:11:29. > :11:31.The commander and her unit are on the western front.
:11:32. > :11:34.It's a tight squeeze inside a home-made armoured truck
:11:35. > :11:45.with a couple of her fighters driving towards the centre of Raqqa.
:11:46. > :11:49.Islamic State are supposed to be surrounded inside the old city.
:11:50. > :12:06.And they frequently pop up where you don't expect them.
:12:07. > :12:09.These fighters are coming up against IS snipers in all of these
:12:10. > :12:15.Other than that, they've got drones, they've got suicide car bombs.
:12:16. > :12:20.This is going to be a very, very hard fight into the centre of Raqqa.
:12:21. > :12:22.Back at base, the commander and her fellow commanders
:12:23. > :12:30.As the fight enters the narrow streets of the city
:12:31. > :12:54.they are constantly having to adjust tactics.
:12:55. > :13:01.But what does a Kurdish-led coalition do when it
:13:02. > :13:06.captures the capital of Sunni Arab fundamentalism?
:13:07. > :13:09.Well, there is a plan for Raqqa after the fall of Islamic State
:13:10. > :13:20.Here, a multi-ethnic military and civil council has brought life
:13:21. > :13:23.and stability back to this mainly Arab city under the auspices
:13:24. > :13:56.The anti-IS coalition sees Manbij as a template for Raqqa, post-IS.
:13:57. > :14:01.But it is at best a temporary arrangement.
:14:02. > :14:06.Syria has been at war for more than six years now.
:14:07. > :14:13.Longer than the whole of World War II.
:14:14. > :14:17.The fight against the Islamic State is but one facet of an ongoing
:14:18. > :14:20.conflict in which the world's big powers, the US, Russia and others,
:14:21. > :14:26.have not only interests but troops on the ground.
:14:27. > :14:33.From a hilltop overlooking the Manbij countryside,
:14:34. > :14:36.a local Kurdish commander showed me the point at which all of these
:14:37. > :14:45.OK, well, it's a pretty complicated picture but basically
:14:46. > :14:55.From the West, all the way up to the north, up
:14:56. > :14:59.over there is controlled by the Americans.
:15:00. > :15:02.From that same western point all the way to the South
:15:03. > :15:09.In the middle of that is the pocket of the Manbij Military Council
:15:10. > :15:11.which is an Arab Kurdish coalition but is basically
:15:12. > :15:19.But in between all of that is a Russian base just over
:15:20. > :15:21.there, an American base just four kilometres along from that,
:15:22. > :15:25.and surrounding all of it are FSA forces, Free Syrian Army,
:15:26. > :15:34.that are basically sponsored by the Turks.
:15:35. > :15:36.For now, the battle against Islamic State provides
:15:37. > :15:39.a kind of common purpose but once IS is gone, the potential
:15:40. > :16:03.for conflict between these big powers is very real.
:16:04. > :16:09.The Kurds are in a difficult position.
:16:10. > :16:12.Their fighters belonged to a branch of the PKK,
:16:13. > :16:15.which is considered a terrorist organisation by both Turkey
:16:16. > :16:22.For now, the Syrian Kurds have the backing of the Americans
:16:23. > :16:28.but Turkey, a Nato ally, carries out sporadic
:16:29. > :16:37.And that's because their fight against the Islamic State is really
:16:38. > :16:42.They call it a revolution and it's attracting its share
:16:43. > :16:46.One of the fighters in the commander's units is Kimi Taylor.
:16:47. > :16:49.Originally from Blackburn, she's a former maths student who has
:16:50. > :16:52.left behind a life of activism at home to come to Syria
:16:53. > :16:59.There's just a million ways to die here, it's not just on the front,
:17:00. > :17:05.It's like a huge space of war that is like even though it
:17:06. > :17:11.seems peaceful here, anything can happen.
:17:12. > :17:16.What are the biggest worries, the biggest threats?
:17:17. > :17:19.On the moving front, where we're moving to take more space,
:17:20. > :17:22.There are mines everywhere and there's snipers everywhere.
:17:23. > :17:30.No, there is something bigger than me.
:17:31. > :17:37.It's for people here, for women here and for women
:17:38. > :17:39.all in the Middle East and maybe potentially the world.
:17:40. > :17:41.Those who have given their lives to this cause
:17:42. > :17:48.To a social revolution with its roots in Marxist-Leninist ideology.
:17:49. > :17:53.It's a movement that tolerates little dissent.
:17:54. > :17:59.Opposition activists have been jailed and thousands of young people
:18:00. > :18:05.have fled to escape conscription, such is the way of revolutions.
:18:06. > :18:08.For the commander, a true believer, the fight against IS is but one
:18:09. > :18:17.battle in a longer war to convert her own
:18:18. > :18:52.Meanwhile, on the Raqqa front line there is still much
:18:53. > :19:01.Inching their way into the city, house by house.
:19:02. > :19:04.The fighters are so close they can hear IS in the building
:19:05. > :19:09.This is, of course, a battle for territory.
:19:10. > :19:14.They're fighting to take the capital of the caliphate.
:19:15. > :19:19.Everyone's just swinging into action.
:19:20. > :19:27.They think they've got some Isis snipers in the buildings around.
:19:28. > :19:37.They are moving here, they moving here.
:19:38. > :19:40.They now face Islamic State at perhaps its most dangerous.
:19:41. > :19:44.Wounded, cornered and with nothing left to lose.
:19:45. > :19:58.The question is, can their revolution survive
:19:59. > :20:00.the collapse of the caliphate in the face of Syria's
:20:01. > :20:17.Gabriel Gatehouse working with Fred Scott and Peter Emmerson.
:20:18. > :20:20.It's not difficult for victory in a war to lead to chaos,
:20:21. > :20:22.or another war in that region if the aftermath is not
:20:23. > :20:26.So let's accept that the physical battle against Isis is going well,
:20:27. > :20:29.and ask what might go wrong thereafter.
:20:30. > :20:32.Sheelagh Stewart is a conflict expert at the British Council -
:20:33. > :20:35.she was formerly at the UN and also served as the Head of the UK
:20:36. > :20:37.Government Stabilisation Unit, which tackles instability overseas.
:20:38. > :20:39.Mina Al-Oraibi is a British Iraqi journalist and editor
:20:40. > :20:41.in chief at The National, based in Abu Dhabi.
:20:42. > :20:43.And joining us from Brussels is Hoshyar Zebari, former
:20:44. > :20:58.Thank you all very much for coming in. We will divide this conversation
:20:59. > :21:02.into three sections. First, Mina, I want to start with you. Is this
:21:03. > :21:07.really the end of Isis. How difficult is it to eradicate that
:21:08. > :21:12.movement and its ideology by simply taking away its territory. It is
:21:13. > :21:18.difficult, Isis was not something just born in 2014 when they took the
:21:19. > :21:23.physical territory in Iraq. Previously to that we had militants
:21:24. > :21:29.roaming the street. Isis is a consequence of factors that continue
:21:30. > :21:35.to be present in both Iraq and Isis. So it is an ideology but it is also
:21:36. > :21:40.born of a security vacuum. Areas that did not have proper policing or
:21:41. > :21:44.proper defence for citizens. You have organised crime that had
:21:45. > :21:48.nothing to do with ideology and was much more opportunistic. And it's
:21:49. > :21:52.very hard to see how the ground will be held because as your report said
:21:53. > :21:55.there are so many different competing groups who all bear arms,
:21:56. > :22:01.and you have fighting forces that will put together to fight Isis and
:22:02. > :22:06.now Isis are gone they are still armed to the teeth. And there are
:22:07. > :22:13.many young people, and, without prospects of jobs or anywhere to go
:22:14. > :22:18.except fight another war. Are you worried that Isis will pop up
:22:19. > :22:23.elsewhere, Willie ideology and in it? I think it's quite rightly, that
:22:24. > :22:28.the military defeat and loss of territory cuts off two forms of
:22:29. > :22:31.support for Isis, the first is their legitimacy because they claim to run
:22:32. > :22:35.a caliphate and the second is that they have used the holding of
:22:36. > :22:40.territory to raise money. So it is a definite step forward that the
:22:41. > :22:46.caliphate has been defeated. However conflict breeds conflict. It is very
:22:47. > :22:51.clear that from Isis's tactics they already retrenching and talking
:22:52. > :22:54.about to domestic terror, sponsoring lone wolf activities. And that is
:22:55. > :23:00.the kind of thing that is very difficult to stop and will bring
:23:01. > :23:04.further conflict. Hoshyar Zebari, I assume that you will agree that this
:23:05. > :23:09.is not necessarily the end of Isis. Tel us would you to do to make sure
:23:10. > :23:13.that the fighters are not a threat and the ideology would have less
:23:14. > :23:20.appeal. Definitely the military successes in Mosul and that
:23:21. > :23:25.declaration of victory, the date of Mosul liberation, even without a
:23:26. > :23:31.victory lap it is a significant achievement for the Iraqi security
:23:32. > :23:36.forces, for the Peshmerga forces and the volunteers. And for the people
:23:37. > :23:41.of Mosul who have been really traumatised and brutally treated by
:23:42. > :23:46.Isis over the last few years. But defeating Isis physically or
:23:47. > :23:58.militarily or destroying the caliphate of hatred is very
:23:59. > :24:01.important first successes of recruitment from foreign countries,
:24:02. > :24:06.that is a significant achievement. But we need, in the post-ISIS
:24:07. > :24:15.period, to do reconstruction as quickly as possible. The level of
:24:16. > :24:21.destruction in Mosul is devastating. And also to have real political
:24:22. > :24:27.reconciliations and good governors of Mosul afterwards. Here we believe
:24:28. > :24:33.that the government on the military sides have been successful but on
:24:34. > :24:38.the service sides, on the political side, this didn't matter, these
:24:39. > :24:44.military successes. But Isis will not finish after their defeat in
:24:45. > :24:52.Mosul, or dislodging them... You all agree on that. Mina, on that last
:24:53. > :24:56.topic of Isis, what is to keep Isis from being a powerful force in
:24:57. > :25:01.future, is it about the Iraqi government being more inclusive and
:25:02. > :25:11.more inclusive arrangements on a civic level? It's also about
:25:12. > :25:13.providing security for citizens and services, and giving people a sense
:25:14. > :25:18.that the government takes care of everyone regardless of their
:25:19. > :25:23.background. It's important to remember that despite these armed
:25:24. > :25:26.groups they will be able to continue unless there is proper justice and
:25:27. > :25:31.in terms of holding those accountable who were not only part
:25:32. > :25:35.of Isis but encouraged them to take hold of Mosul. Three years ago there
:25:36. > :25:39.was a different commander in chief, the current one has done a stellar
:25:40. > :25:45.job in putting the army together but there was a different one, which
:25:46. > :25:49.allowed the full of Mosul and did not give the order of the army to
:25:50. > :25:57.protect the city. Let's move onto the second section, the region.
:25:58. > :26:01.Sheelagh, there are so many players there, they don't get on, they've
:26:02. > :26:07.got this one common enemy, is there a danger of another war there? I
:26:08. > :26:12.think that is quite likely. I think in terms of securing the region, the
:26:13. > :26:16.first steps of trying to announce the boil of this immediate conflict,
:26:17. > :26:22.that's about establishing law and order in those areas first, getting
:26:23. > :26:25.humanitarian aid in, and then starting to lay a path towards
:26:26. > :26:33.normality for people so they can see that life will become normal again.
:26:34. > :26:37.Who is we? It's different in both countries. Haider al-Abadi must take
:26:38. > :26:40.the lead in Iraq. I think there's a chink of light all the
:26:41. > :26:44.reconstruction in Falluja has been pretty slow but Haider al-Abadi has
:26:45. > :26:47.made concessionary noises and is starting to talk about the
:26:48. > :26:55.possibility of including Sunni people. Isis wasn't the start of the
:26:56. > :27:00.problem, the exclusion of Sunni people across the region laid the
:27:01. > :27:03.fertile soil in which the Isis narrative was sown. Syria, or
:27:04. > :27:12.together a different matter of complexity. -- altogether. Hoshyar,
:27:13. > :27:20.what should the American role be. The Americans are there with 500 or
:27:21. > :27:25.soap troops in Syria, do you see the Americans living and getting out of
:27:26. > :27:29.the way -- 500 or so. They stay because everybody is there? I think
:27:30. > :27:40.America are going to stay until the defeat of Isis or the liberation of
:27:41. > :27:43.Raqqa is complete. Raqqa is the administrative capital of Isis or
:27:44. > :27:49.Daesh. Therefore I believe that they are committed. And thanks to the
:27:50. > :27:57.critical support and their attacks and the ground support through
:27:58. > :28:03.advisers, really the SDF forces have managed to achieve those successes.
:28:04. > :28:09.Without American support these victories would not have been
:28:10. > :28:12.possible at all. Without the International coalition and
:28:13. > :28:16.generally... In a word you would welcome the Americans staying even
:28:17. > :28:23.beyond the point at which Raqqa has been taken? I think there really is
:28:24. > :28:27.important, reassuring, I think it will inspire confidence in the local
:28:28. > :28:34.fighters and the local population so their continued engagement is very
:28:35. > :28:37.important. Mina, give us your take on the general picture of
:28:38. > :28:42.instability or stability. Are you optimistic that there can be some
:28:43. > :28:47.stability in Iraq and Syria, two different theatres? They are two
:28:48. > :28:50.ready different scenarios because Iraq has an internationally
:28:51. > :28:53.recognised government, we have a functioning Kurdish regional
:28:54. > :28:57.government that works together when they disagree, Syria is much more
:28:58. > :29:03.complex. It's hard to be optimistic with so much that has been lost.
:29:04. > :29:08.It's difficult to see a ray of hope in that sense but I think there is a
:29:09. > :29:12.moment to see, today we have seen a very significant victory in terms of
:29:13. > :29:18.liberating Mosul from Isis but it has come at a very high cost for
:29:19. > :29:25.people. Pictures of the destruction are shocking. My third topic and I
:29:26. > :29:31.will get you to lead off on this one, Hoshyar, it is the Kurds.
:29:32. > :29:35.Another thing that could go wrong, a full-scale argument between the
:29:36. > :29:39.Turks, the Kurds, there are divisions within the Iraqi Kurds and
:29:40. > :29:42.the Syrian Kurds. What is the prospect of the Kurds getting a
:29:43. > :29:56.potentially independent state? Here, we must distinguish between
:29:57. > :30:01.Syrian Kurds, Iraqi Kurds and other Kurds. Iraqi Kurds have decided to
:30:02. > :30:07.hold a referendum on self-determination on the 25th of
:30:08. > :30:11.September. This decision is irreversible and a majority of the
:30:12. > :30:19.Kurdish leaders in fact have agreed to do that. But this would be for
:30:20. > :30:26.Iraqi Kurds, because of really great frustration with the Iraqi
:30:27. > :30:33.government... Sorry to interrupt, but is it going to be chaos? If the
:30:34. > :30:39.Iraqi Kurds voted for independence, is it going to be chaos or not? No,
:30:40. > :30:44.it wouldn't be chaos actually, this referendum will do its best to
:30:45. > :30:51.prevent a further conflict and was and bloodshed, in my view. Do you
:30:52. > :31:00.agree that the Kurdish situation can be stable or is it chaotic? It's
:31:01. > :31:04.going to be very difficult, it could be completely chaotic. They are
:31:05. > :31:08.obviously in with a clear agenda and they have been passionately
:31:09. > :31:12.committed to independence. I think the key thing is, if the West has
:31:13. > :31:16.any credit, to pull together some kind of move towards a common
:31:17. > :31:21.purpose but it's hard to see where you can go from here. We've
:31:22. > :31:28.discussed the Kurds, the General security in the region and the
:31:29. > :31:31.prospects for. Thank you. -- prospects for peace.
:31:32. > :31:34.Theresa May has a new idea for managing a minority government -
:31:35. > :31:36.asking the opposition to give her a hand.
:31:37. > :31:39.Her suggestion will be set out in a speech tomorrow,
:31:40. > :31:42.but she was in the Commons today and couldn't avoid the subject.
:31:43. > :31:44.Labour wasn't exactly positive about the idea.
:31:45. > :31:46.The government is apparently now asking other parties
:31:47. > :31:50.And so, if the Prime Minister would like it, I'm very happy
:31:51. > :31:53.to furnish her with a copy of our election manifesto.
:31:54. > :31:56.Or, better still, an early election in order that the people
:31:57. > :32:03.Mr Speaker, there are many issues on which I would hope
:32:04. > :32:08.that we would be able to achieve consensus across this House.
:32:09. > :32:12.Our political editor Nick Watt is here.
:32:13. > :32:24.Quite a busy day. You saw Jeremy Corbyn mocking Theresa May I think
:32:25. > :32:28.in that clip. What is the importance of this launch tomorrow? We will see
:32:29. > :32:32.the new look bipartisan Theresa May tomorrow when she attends the launch
:32:33. > :32:39.of the report into the so-called gig economy by the fauna Tony Blair
:32:40. > :32:43.adviser, Matthew Taylor -- former adviser. She wants to send two
:32:44. > :32:45.messages, firstly that her government can do more than
:32:46. > :32:49.delivering Brexit and she acknowledges that her minority
:32:50. > :32:56.government needs the support of other parties if it is to deliver
:32:57. > :32:58.radical change in three areas, counterterrorism, industrial
:32:59. > :33:05.strategy and workers' rights. They say that the Taylor report which is
:33:06. > :33:08.about short-term contracts and zero-hour contracts is the perfect
:33:09. > :33:13.opportunity to highlight this approach. One senior government
:33:14. > :33:17.figure did say, how can Labour disagree with a report written by
:33:18. > :33:21.one of their former advertisers? Of course Matthew Taylor was an adviser
:33:22. > :33:27.to Tony Blair, which perhaps explains why Jeremy Corbyn is rather
:33:28. > :33:32.dismissive. The other thing that happened when Theresa May was on her
:33:33. > :33:37.feet, Cape emerging of another Tory MP using some rather inappropriate
:33:38. > :33:43.language in a meeting. -- tape emerging. She was in the Commons
:33:44. > :33:47.when it emerged that Anne Marie Morris had used a racially offensive
:33:48. > :33:58.word to describe the dangers of the UK leaving the EU. Anne Marie Morris
:33:59. > :34:01.apologised for any offence that may have been caused by what she called
:34:02. > :34:05.unintentional remarks but when Theresa May was cold about this she
:34:06. > :34:10.felt it was so important, she conveyed a meeting immediately with
:34:11. > :34:16.her Chief Whip Gavin Williamson and they took action on two France. The
:34:17. > :34:20.party whip was suspended from the backbench MP and Theresa May issued
:34:21. > :34:24.a statement saying the words were completely unacceptable and have no
:34:25. > :34:35.place in our politics and society -- took action on two fronts. Brexit,
:34:36. > :34:42.can't get away from it because there is another issue that has been
:34:43. > :34:48.lurking, the issue about nuclear regulation, Euratom, what Britain
:34:49. > :34:52.will do? There is cooperation in one area, Ed Vaizey, the former Tory
:34:53. > :34:54.arts minister has launched a campaign with Rachel Reeves, the
:34:55. > :35:00.former Labour Shadow Cabinet Minister, to keep the UK in Euratom,
:35:01. > :35:06.the treaty governing the movement of nuclear material around Europe. The
:35:07. > :35:10.Evening Standard, edited by that well-known anti-Brexit campaigner,
:35:11. > :35:13.George Osborne, highlighted concerns today amongst radiologists that
:35:14. > :35:19.withdrawal from the treaty could threaten the supply of radioactive
:35:20. > :35:26.isotopes. Euratom is not technically and Mac EU treaty but it is overseen
:35:27. > :35:29.by the European Court of Justice and the history is that government
:35:30. > :35:33.lawyers advised ministers earlier in the year that they couldn't
:35:34. > :35:36.guarantee a clean Article 50 triggering unless the UK signalled
:35:37. > :35:43.that it was going to pull-out Euratom because of it being overseen
:35:44. > :35:45.by the ECJ. Theresa May on three occasions in the Commons this
:35:46. > :35:50.afternoon said that the UK will be leaving Euratom but government
:35:51. > :35:56.sources say that the Prime Minister would like to replicate it exactly
:35:57. > :36:01.in the nuclear safeguards built. One ministerial source said to me that
:36:02. > :36:04.the UK will not be leaving Euratom, we don't have the numbers in
:36:05. > :36:08.parliament to leave it -- in the nuclear safeguards Bill. Thank you
:36:09. > :36:10.for joining us. How is technology
:36:11. > :36:12.changing the world? We know the Ubers and Airbnbs come
:36:13. > :36:15.from nowhere to world dominance. We know the gig economy has
:36:16. > :36:17.expanded as part of that. But a new book tries to encapsulate
:36:18. > :36:20.many of the economic and business effects of disruptive technology
:36:21. > :36:25.in three words. The book is more than three words,
:36:26. > :36:29.it's actually over 100,000, but its message boils down to three
:36:30. > :36:31.- machines, platforms... The two authors think understanding
:36:32. > :36:36.these three is the key to understanding the way
:36:37. > :36:38.everything is being uprooted. They are both massively rated
:36:39. > :36:53.experts on this area Thank you for joining us. The three
:36:54. > :37:00.words, machines, platforms, crowds, give me an example, either of you,
:37:01. > :37:04.of how they interact that causes disruption of some kind. A great
:37:05. > :37:10.example of all three of them is a recent competition run in the United
:37:11. > :37:14.States by the people looking at baggage coming through airports and
:37:15. > :37:19.they created a contest among millions of data scientists to come
:37:20. > :37:22.up with a better way to use machines to scan through the x-rays and
:37:23. > :37:29.identify potentially dangerous materials. This was a platform that
:37:30. > :37:32.reached out to a lot of people. The technology is the machine, the
:37:33. > :37:37.platform and in the crowd the people who are giving about what to do.
:37:38. > :37:42.That's right. Another example, a crowd sourced quantitative hedge
:37:43. > :37:48.funds that will start later this year, a start-up in Boston, using
:37:49. > :37:53.machines to make investment decisions, building a platform to
:37:54. > :37:56.find the most talented quantitative investors out there, whether or not
:37:57. > :38:01.they are working for an investment house and the crowd are the hundreds
:38:02. > :38:06.of people who are potentially good at doing this kind of investing.
:38:07. > :38:09.Tell me what humans are going to be good for, because we know that
:38:10. > :38:14.machines will become more important, that is part of the book. What are
:38:15. > :38:19.the specialist skills that we retain that the machines are not going to
:38:20. > :38:24.have? Most skills, machines are good at narrow skills but we want to be
:38:25. > :38:28.clear, the problem we are facing is not a world without work, it is a
:38:29. > :38:35.world of rapidly changing work. There is no better time in history
:38:36. > :38:38.to be a talented art artist or scientist and there are huge
:38:39. > :38:44.opportunities in the caring professions, motivating. Social
:38:45. > :38:49.care, old age care. Absolutely. Machines will never be as good at
:38:50. > :38:52.that. Never say never, one thing we learned in writing the book was
:38:53. > :38:56.never to say never but in the next few Mac decades, most of us prefer
:38:57. > :39:02.interacting with other humans. Part of the concerns that people have are
:39:03. > :39:09.not that the jobs will run out, but they will either be slave jobs, the
:39:10. > :39:15.underclass or you will be the Afterburn, the creative, and you
:39:16. > :39:21.will be fine and we all going to be that -- you will be the
:39:22. > :39:29.entrepreneur. You talk about soccer and being the football coach, it is
:39:30. > :39:34.a solid job, respected in the Kim Ye-Ji, not going to be replaced by a
:39:35. > :39:40.robot any time soon -- respected in the community. The coach taps into
:39:41. > :39:45.the social drives and that isn't going anywhere soon. Emotional
:39:46. > :39:51.intelligence is a important thing. That's great, we need that more than
:39:52. > :39:54.ever. The book is aimed at the business community and the
:39:55. > :39:58.companies, what do you think countries should do? I'm thinking of
:39:59. > :40:03.a middle to large size country may be thinking of changing its
:40:04. > :40:08.direction. OK! There is quite a big debate over industrial policy and it
:40:09. > :40:13.is a blank piece of paper looking for ideas. Often industrial policy
:40:14. > :40:17.means doubling down on one particular thing we think is going
:40:18. > :40:22.to be big in the future. The track record of that policy is really
:40:23. > :40:27.dismal. What I think a country should do is set up the right
:40:28. > :40:29.environment for innovation and entrepreneurship, let the
:40:30. > :40:36.experiments happen, let failure happen even if it is to a company
:40:37. > :40:42.that is important now and let that creative destruction happen. Let it
:40:43. > :40:48.happen. That's a big part of it, also investing in education, not
:40:49. > :40:51.just spending more, but encouraging emotional intelligence, encouraging
:40:52. > :40:57.creativity. When we visit schools today, many of them seem designed to
:40:58. > :41:00.crush that so we could do a lot to help it flourish. That's what we
:41:01. > :41:05.need in the second machine age in this era going forward. In the
:41:06. > :41:08.industrial era we needed workers who could follow instructions and listen
:41:09. > :41:12.to authority and the education system does a good job of turning
:41:13. > :41:13.out those workers. We don't need them any more. Thank you for joining
:41:14. > :41:16.us. If you're one of the increasing
:41:17. > :41:20.number who's started watching BBC Two on our high definition
:41:21. > :41:23.channel, you've probably become fairly expert by now in dating every
:41:24. > :41:26.piece of footage you see to the correct decade just
:41:27. > :41:29.by looking at the image quality So you'll probably appreciate
:41:30. > :41:36.the work of artist Marina Amaral, whose speciality is bringing
:41:37. > :41:38.old images to life by carefully researching what the original scene
:41:39. > :41:40.would have looked like, and then meticulously colouring
:41:41. > :41:42.and enhancing the image If you're not watching in HD -
:41:43. > :41:50.well the weather forecast # I've hungered
:41:51. > :43:01.for your touch Gardeners amongst you in England and
:43:02. > :43:02.Wales will be happy that there is some