:00:00. > :00:00.Tonight, four weeks after Grenfell burned, Newsnight has established
:00:07. > :00:09.the first evidence of cyanide poisoning amongst
:00:10. > :00:14.We hear new testimony of a family's escape
:00:15. > :00:20.And the agony of losing their unborn child.
:00:21. > :00:28.As it settled on my body, obviously everything goes to the baby.
:00:29. > :00:32.The amount that he received, it was obviously enough
:00:33. > :00:40.Nazreen Aklani lost her mother and her aunt in the fire,
:00:41. > :00:43.both are missing and presumed to have died.
:00:44. > :00:50.Four weeks on - has anyone helped her get the answers that she seeks?
:00:51. > :00:53.And why are survivors so unwilling to believe
:00:54. > :00:55.what the authorities tell them - especially about the
:00:56. > :01:02.I was speaking to a friend of mine last week and they said that he's
:01:03. > :01:10.We go in search of evidence that the official death count
:01:11. > :01:12.is wrong and ask why so many doubt it.
:01:13. > :01:15.I said, we've got social media out here.
:01:16. > :01:22.We'll ask two London politicians if it's possible to end
:01:23. > :01:36.Four weeks after the inferno, the charred carcass
:01:37. > :01:39.of Grenfell Tower looms over North Kensington like
:01:40. > :01:42.a malevolent machine, casting still darkening shadows over
:01:43. > :01:48.But as the political debates continue and the parameters
:01:49. > :01:52.of the official enquiry are slowly established, there is perhaps
:01:53. > :01:55.a danger of losing sight of the myriad human
:01:56. > :02:03.For example, the youngest victim of the fire, who was yet to be born.
:02:04. > :02:06.Andreia Gomes was seven months pregnant and had already
:02:07. > :02:09.named her unborn son-to-be Logan when, with her husband
:02:10. > :02:12.and their two daughters, she escaped from the 21st floor
:02:13. > :02:18.The baby growing inside her did not survive.
:02:19. > :02:21.And tonight, we learn that Andreia and her husband
:02:22. > :02:25.Marcio's eldest child, the 12 year old Luana,
:02:26. > :02:27.received a diagnosis of cyanide poisoning -
:02:28. > :02:31.the first to be recorded among the survivors.
:02:32. > :02:33.They have been telling their story for the first time
:02:34. > :02:39.A warning - some people may find it upsetting.
:02:40. > :02:41.We didn't use soft words, we didn't say
:02:42. > :02:46.that her baby brother was
:02:47. > :02:51.sleeping with the angels, sleeping as everybody does every night.
:02:52. > :02:56.We said Logan died and these are the reasons Logan died.
:02:57. > :02:58.The Gomes family lived on the 21st floor of Grenfell
:02:59. > :03:02.Next month they should have been celebrating the birth of their
:03:03. > :03:08.son, anticipated with much excitement by his older sisters.
:03:09. > :03:11.We were making plans, he can sleep with me,
:03:12. > :03:19.floor and I'm going to play with him, they were very excited and we'd
:03:20. > :03:26.Instead, their home is gone and their son,
:03:27. > :03:33.who they had already named Logan, was delivered stillborn by Caesarean
:03:34. > :03:38.section as his mother and sisters lay in induced comas in hospital.
:03:39. > :03:40.I knew something was wrong straightaway when they took the
:03:41. > :03:43.mother as a priority, so I broke down.
:03:44. > :03:53.And then later on they said that the baby had passed
:03:54. > :04:04.They can't say 100%, but they said that the heart couldn't cope
:04:05. > :04:10.with the lack of oxygen, the baby didn't get,
:04:11. > :04:13.so they have done a full autopsy including toxins to see
:04:14. > :04:18.exactly what caused the baby's death.
:04:19. > :04:25.They said that they believed the poison went in and settled on my
:04:26. > :04:37.body, and everything goes to the baby.
:04:38. > :04:40.Especially, seven months is when the lungs of the baby starts to
:04:41. > :04:43.The amount that he received, it was obviously enough to
:04:44. > :04:53.There has been speculation in the four weeks since
:04:54. > :04:56.the fire about what toxins may have been released as the building
:04:57. > :05:00.The family allowed Newsnight to film their discharge papers from
:05:01. > :05:03.Their 12-year-old daughter's diagnosis
:05:04. > :05:08.Her mother and sister were also treated
:05:09. > :05:16.This is the first confirmation of a cyanide
:05:17. > :05:18.poisoning diagnosis as a result of the Grenfell fire.
:05:19. > :05:22.It is believed to be from the insulation.
:05:23. > :05:30.I imagine it would be from the plastics that
:05:31. > :05:32.were melted and burning, but the smoke was certainly,
:05:33. > :05:40.you know, so intense, as soon as you got a mouthful, you
:05:41. > :05:45.were gagging, you were constantly gagging on the way down.
:05:46. > :05:53.I can't imagine what my daughters were going
:05:54. > :05:56.through at the time and I'm sure you were gagging as well.
:05:57. > :05:59.You were always having the gag reflex, it was that
:06:00. > :06:02.This was the family's flat where they sheltered, unable to
:06:03. > :06:07.They had been advised that firefighters would rescue them but
:06:08. > :06:11.two hours and up to five emergency calls later, just before 4am,
:06:12. > :06:21.The curtains were on fire, the Moses basket was
:06:22. > :06:25.on fire, that side of the window was on fire.
:06:26. > :06:27.I looked at the window and thought it must have cracked.
:06:28. > :06:34.Everything was fine so I knew that the fire came in between the
:06:35. > :06:46.There were a lot of gaps because of the insulation they
:06:47. > :06:49.The only thing I could do was literally grab the door,
:06:50. > :06:52.and then I looked and said we have to go now,
:06:53. > :06:54.there's no turning back, we have to try.
:06:55. > :06:58.I was holding the rail and I kept shouting, keep going,
:06:59. > :06:59.keep going downstairs, try and give them as
:07:00. > :07:04.At one point my daughter replied to me
:07:05. > :07:24.I realised she must have let go of the rail.
:07:25. > :07:31.I turned round, stopped, I turned around and said
:07:32. > :07:36.I'm waiting for you, follow my voice, I kept shouting to them.
:07:37. > :07:40.I kept climbing the stairs and she said, I can't, I can't, and she
:07:41. > :07:46.The smoke was so heavy, you couldn't see anything
:07:47. > :07:52.that was there, so I was shouting to them, waiting.
:07:53. > :07:55.Thankfully at that moment I looked down and there was a
:07:56. > :07:58.light coming up and it was a fireman.
:07:59. > :08:09.They were rescued but the delay on the staircase meant that he
:08:10. > :08:11.had lost Andreia and their younger daughter.
:08:12. > :08:17.I said I needed to go back and see where my wife is and
:08:18. > :08:18.the policeman said, I'm not promising anything
:08:19. > :08:23.I relaxed a bit at that point and then the other one
:08:24. > :08:27.said, is your daughter's name, Megan?
:08:28. > :08:29.I said I was good because they had got out.
:08:30. > :08:33.An ambulance took the family to hospital where the
:08:34. > :08:45.Did you know immediately that you had lost your son? Or did you have
:08:46. > :08:48.to tell Andreia? Before she got brought out of
:08:49. > :08:56.the coma, moving a little bit, very I was talking to her and the first
:08:57. > :09:04.thing she did was to try and put her hand on her stomach
:09:05. > :09:09.and said, I'm sorry. The family have nothing
:09:10. > :09:14.but praise for the support they've received from the NHS,
:09:15. > :09:16.firefighters and friends. As for those who decided
:09:17. > :09:18.to cut costs on I'm very angry with
:09:19. > :09:21.them because it could That's where the anger
:09:22. > :09:25.really stems from. Yes, it was an accident,
:09:26. > :09:28.I'm sure, but it It shouldn't have
:09:29. > :09:33.happened like this. The residents never wanted
:09:34. > :09:37.the cladding in the first place. When you go ahead
:09:38. > :09:44.knowing that something could happen and they ignored that,
:09:45. > :09:48.this is me, personally, I feel that I don't know if is
:09:49. > :10:00.the right word, but you just killed so many people
:10:01. > :10:06.and you just killed my son. In a normal situation
:10:07. > :10:09.I could have gone out, he was seven months, he
:10:10. > :10:14.could have survived. But because of their
:10:15. > :10:23.conditions, he... Andreia and Marcio Gomes
:10:24. > :10:41.talking to Katie Razzall It is worth stressing that we do not
:10:42. > :10:43.know where the cyanide came from, whether it was plastics from inside
:10:44. > :10:45.the building or the insulation. Sadly, neither the Government
:10:46. > :10:47.nor council were able Her mother Sakineh
:10:48. > :10:53.lived on the 18th floor On the night of the tragedy
:10:54. > :10:58.she was being visited by her sister, Nazreen's aunt Fatimeh,
:10:59. > :11:02.and both women described the unfolding horror
:11:03. > :11:04.on the telephone to family members Presumed but not yet confirmed dead,
:11:05. > :11:10.the uncertainty surrounding their situation is also
:11:11. > :11:15.being endured by many other grieving families and their continuing pain
:11:16. > :11:17.is exacerbated by a lingering suspicion that the authorities
:11:18. > :11:33.are still being less I am so sorry for your loss and
:11:34. > :11:37.thank you for joining us. One would presume that four weeks after the
:11:38. > :11:42.tragedy, you had find out rather more than what you have about what
:11:43. > :11:49.happened to her mother and your aunt, is that the case? We know more
:11:50. > :11:56.in terms of meeting other victims and we have approached them, we have
:11:57. > :12:03.found things out for ourselves and... No, it has taken so long for
:12:04. > :12:09.the numbers to reach 80. The next day the numbers of dead were nine.
:12:10. > :12:14.We always knew it was more and we still know it is more, that is no
:12:15. > :12:20.information for us. It is things that we assumed. You mentioned
:12:21. > :12:24.dealing chiefly with other survivors and grieving families, what lines of
:12:25. > :12:30.communication do you have with what you describe as the authorities? We
:12:31. > :12:35.have very little communication, we have been given a key worker and we
:12:36. > :12:40.have had to run around so much. We were given a family liaison officer
:12:41. > :12:46.by the police quite quickly. And through them we were promised to
:12:47. > :12:51.have a key worker which puts us in touch with the council and they are
:12:52. > :12:54.supposed to help us, introduce us to things that are available and
:12:55. > :13:01.everything. And it took so long to have one of those in place. We
:13:02. > :13:09.literally had to chase the officers to be able to find out who that
:13:10. > :13:14.actually is and once in place, a number of phone calls we have had to
:13:15. > :13:19.make chasing her up, I would rather have called the places myself and
:13:20. > :13:23.have everything done. We find out through other means and had to put
:13:24. > :13:27.it to her, there has not been much communication. What is it you are
:13:28. > :13:33.mostly trying to establish that you have been unable to? One of the main
:13:34. > :13:39.things we have been trying to do and I know my brother sorted out the
:13:40. > :13:43.Housing for my disabled brother and we have been trying to sort that
:13:44. > :13:47.provisionally ourselves because there was no key worker and when she
:13:48. > :13:52.came in she took over and did nothing with it and we had to ring
:13:53. > :13:58.her and remind her, the MP as short as this would get done. She called
:13:59. > :14:01.us one week later to say the council has refused everything and when we
:14:02. > :14:04.asked for her to put us in touch with the manager that took that
:14:05. > :14:09.decision, she spoke to my brother, I believe today or yesterday, to say
:14:10. > :14:13.the manager is going on annual leave and she left it as that without
:14:14. > :14:20.telling us who else would be in charge. Which I find quite shocking,
:14:21. > :14:23.so many people traumatised and going through this tragedy, not just
:14:24. > :14:28.myself but everybody, and the managers and the council say that it
:14:29. > :14:33.is OK to continue with annual leave. You say not yourself but you still
:14:34. > :14:40.do not know for sure what happened to your mother? No. My brother was
:14:41. > :14:46.on the phone to them, we know they went to the 23rd floor and we know
:14:47. > :14:52.they died there because... Do you understand by the authorities have
:14:53. > :15:00.been unable to definitively confirm that to you? Yes, they let them burn
:15:01. > :15:05.for too long. You know... What is more horrendous than getting burned
:15:06. > :15:11.alive? You ask yourself, is there anything worse? I am afraid there
:15:12. > :15:15.is... Having no remains and yes, it has taken so long because they
:15:16. > :15:21.failed to put out the fire when they should have. When I went to that
:15:22. > :15:26.site in the morning, we were there all day, there was still fire inside
:15:27. > :15:30.the building, the next day, 24 hours later. And because of that, yes, it
:15:31. > :15:34.is hard for them to tell us what has happened to my mother and my auntie
:15:35. > :15:40.because they have been so burned that the coroner defines them as
:15:41. > :15:44.calcified, there was no organic matter in the bones for them to be
:15:45. > :15:52.DNA tested. And I do not know who took the decision to decide that
:15:53. > :15:57.they did not need to fight the fire any more. I do not know why somebody
:15:58. > :16:00.who was responsible for that far decided it was OK to stop fighting
:16:01. > :16:08.it and let everything else burn. Because... That decision has cost us
:16:09. > :16:13.the remains of our family. That we could have had. And I see that as a
:16:14. > :16:19.criminal offence. That should be investigated.
:16:20. > :16:29.You have no remains to bury. We have no remains, since the first day, we
:16:30. > :16:35.told our family liaison officer that we want to have a video of the
:16:36. > :16:42.coroner's search. They said, we think this is part of their work
:16:43. > :16:47.anyway. The victims' meeting at Olympia, we were told there was no
:16:48. > :16:51.video. We have taken pictures. Commander Cundy said yes, we will
:16:52. > :16:57.get these pictures out to the families because we are very keen on
:16:58. > :17:02.them, it is our right. Just like everything else, it was a waste of
:17:03. > :17:07.time, time we could have spent grieving. We weren't given the
:17:08. > :17:12.pictures as they promised, they said they would get them to us
:17:13. > :17:17.immediately. We have been denied everything. I have no idea what's
:17:18. > :17:22.out there. For all my no, they could be in one piece. I should stress
:17:23. > :17:26.that there is an open invitation for the Council or central government to
:17:27. > :17:29.address many of the questions that are continuing to be thrown up by
:17:30. > :17:32.this awful, all full tragedy. Thank you for joining us.
:17:33. > :17:35.I spent several hours at the scene today and almost
:17:36. > :17:40.everyone I spoke to, from the local MP to the manager
:17:41. > :17:44.of the Maxilla social club that sits in Grenfell's shadow,
:17:45. > :17:46.told me that the official response to the tragedy remains inadequate
:17:47. > :17:52.It is perhaps unsurprising that this perceived absence of accountability
:17:53. > :17:56.and authority has fostered an environment in which suspicion
:17:57. > :18:00.and mistrust have been allowed to fester.
:18:01. > :18:05.Tonight - a vigil for those that died took place at the tower.
:18:06. > :18:12.From the death toll itself, which currently officially stands
:18:13. > :18:15.at 80, to the efforts to rehouse survivors, many report a deep
:18:16. > :18:19.And it is a distrust which could ultimately hamper any
:18:20. > :18:21.inquiry that requires the cooperation of a community
:18:22. > :18:25.profoundly sceptical about almost everything they are being told.
:18:26. > :18:42.So many questions about Grenfell hang in the air.
:18:43. > :18:49.The definitive answers are many months away.
:18:50. > :18:51.The public inquiry hasn't even decided
:18:52. > :18:54.its terms of reference yet, which questions it will investigate.
:18:55. > :18:56.I was here covering the fire on the day
:18:57. > :18:58.and have followed the story ever since.
:18:59. > :19:01.And one thing that has made Grenfell seem very different to me,
:19:02. > :19:07.feel different from a lot of other similar disasters is how widespread
:19:08. > :19:10.and how strong is the view that the authorities are lying to us
:19:11. > :19:14.At the heart of this view is the question of how
:19:15. > :19:18.That number is established by the police.
:19:19. > :19:23.But is it really more than that, and if so,
:19:24. > :19:29.are the police, the government, the Fire Service and the media all
:19:30. > :19:31.colluding in a cover-up to downplay this disaster's true death toll?
:19:32. > :19:38.If you're not going to report the right numbers, there's no
:19:39. > :19:42.There's no point you being here because all
:19:43. > :19:47.I and many of my colleagues have had encounters like this one.
:19:48. > :19:51.People throwing their children out of the
:19:52. > :19:57.You can see first hand there's more than 58 missing posters
:19:58. > :20:02.The media, seen as in collusion with the
:20:03. > :20:05.powerful who want to suppress the truth.
:20:06. > :20:08.We've got social media, we've got social media out here, we don't
:20:09. > :20:17.Rumours become hardened into fact, despite
:20:18. > :20:24.I've got a friend who works for the fire brigade here.
:20:25. > :20:27.Yesterday on the phone he said they found about 42
:20:28. > :20:38.It's only because we know him, he's a fireman,
:20:39. > :20:46.This Facebook video that alleges that 42 bodies were
:20:47. > :20:50.found in one flat has been seen by more people than the nightly
:20:51. > :20:52.audience for BBC and ITV's main bulletins put
:20:53. > :20:56.A claim that then finds its way into the mouth of a
:20:57. > :21:01.The 79 figure that has stood for a week does not accord
:21:02. > :21:03.with those who lived down there and say
:21:04. > :21:05.that the survivors, there is a
:21:06. > :21:11.In one flat alone, people say there were up to 40 people gathered,
:21:12. > :21:21.because they had gathered there, it was Ramadan.
:21:22. > :21:27.In the cold shadow of Grenfell Tower I met Virginia Sang.
:21:28. > :21:30.She lives in one of the three blocks of maisonettes that radiate
:21:31. > :21:33.She has lived there since she was a child.
:21:34. > :21:36.The official figure is 80 at the moment, dead or missing.
:21:37. > :21:48.I was told Sunday after the fire it was 200 and
:21:49. > :21:55.Right, and that rings true to you, it is more
:21:56. > :21:59.Yeah but I was speaking to a friend who said he has been told
:22:00. > :22:03.Well, we don't know, I'm praying it's not.
:22:04. > :22:11.We don't think they new how many people lived in the tower, because
:22:12. > :22:16.the tower was very overcrowded, so they don't have the correct number
:22:17. > :22:20.for how many people was living there.
:22:21. > :22:23.Do you think there were many people who weren't on the books?
:22:24. > :22:33.But despite investigating these claims, Newsnight has so far found
:22:34. > :22:35.no evidence that such large numbers were in the tower.
:22:36. > :22:40.To calculate the total number in Grenfell that night
:22:41. > :22:43.we need to know the number of people who escaped.
:22:44. > :22:46.The police say it was 255 and add the number of missing
:22:47. > :22:52.The police say the number is 80, implying a total of 335
:22:53. > :23:03.All the people you can see on these posters
:23:04. > :23:05.are accounted for in some way, they are either
:23:06. > :23:07.officially confirmed as
:23:08. > :23:16.So if there were many other people, dozens, even hundreds of other
:23:17. > :23:19.victims of the Grenfell fire, where is the evidence, where are the
:23:20. > :23:22.people looking for them, where are the neighbours, the friends and
:23:23. > :23:26.Unless they were so anonymous that nobody knew they were
:23:27. > :23:34.As for the argument that 100 or more undocumented
:23:35. > :23:35.migrants were living in the tower unknown
:23:36. > :23:37.to the authorities, the
:23:38. > :23:40.police have detailed lists for who was living
:23:41. > :23:46.the block, so where were these extra people supposedly living?
:23:47. > :23:48.Official figures from the police are that 80
:23:49. > :23:56.18 are from the 106 flats where the police have
:23:57. > :24:07.The remaining 62 are from 23 higher flats where the police have been
:24:08. > :24:11.The police have said they have not discovered a flat containing 42
:24:12. > :24:16.Identifying, even numbering victims is a huge and slow
:24:17. > :24:20.30 years ago, 31 people were killed in a fire at King's
:24:21. > :24:23.Cross Station and it took months to identify some of the victims.
:24:24. > :24:26.It is a grisly truth that in a high temperature,
:24:27. > :24:29.long burning fire like Grenfell, very little human evidence
:24:30. > :24:39.The upper floors of Grenfell became effectively a crematorium, the
:24:40. > :24:43.temperature must have been 2000 Celsius.
:24:44. > :24:45.A crematorium is a roundabout 1600 Celsius so what
:24:46. > :24:53.would be left is not an identifiable body but fragments of bone and ash
:24:54. > :24:57.To identify a body we need not just the teeth and
:24:58. > :25:00.get DNA from that body, we need to have something to compare it with
:25:01. > :25:02.Independent groups and organisations try
:25:03. > :25:10.to put together lists of the
:25:11. > :25:13.dead and missing have not identified the scores or hundreds of missing
:25:14. > :25:15.victims that some believe died in the blaze.
:25:16. > :25:17.Without having access to the police's data, the BBC has
:25:18. > :25:20.managed to identify 72 of the 80 people
:25:21. > :25:25.An unchecked crowd sourced database has come up with 83 names.
:25:26. > :25:30.We have completely failed to find any evidence to support the idea
:25:31. > :25:33.that a real number of casualties from the Grenfell fire is
:25:34. > :25:35.significantly different from the numbers that the police
:25:36. > :25:38.That leads to a rather obvious question.
:25:39. > :25:41.Why are so many so determined to believe that the
:25:42. > :25:50.One factor is certainly the lack of trust in any of the institutions
:25:51. > :25:54.We know, for example, that Grenfell residents tried to raise fire
:25:55. > :25:57.safety concerns for years but felt ignored.
:25:58. > :25:59.Many in social housing complained of unresponsive, uncaring
:26:00. > :26:05.Especially in central London, where they suspect the councils
:26:06. > :26:08.would rather sell off valuable sites to developers.
:26:09. > :26:10.She said something like, I have put wet towels under
:26:11. > :26:12.the door and I am just really scared.
:26:13. > :26:19.Rizwan Hussain lost a friend and fellow activist in
:26:20. > :26:23.He is sceptical of conspiracies but understands how
:26:24. > :26:31.In regards to the local authority, I think there was just a lack of
:26:32. > :26:34.answers coming from them, there was a lack of representation.
:26:35. > :26:41.Everything on the ground was basically community-led.
:26:42. > :26:43.People were asking the question, where are the local authorities and
:26:44. > :26:46.Where is the organised system in place of
:26:47. > :26:49.And that didn't happen until a few days after.
:26:50. > :26:55.Questions about numbers and where people are,
:26:56. > :26:58.who people are, because they are not being answered, there is a sort of
:26:59. > :27:05.And that suspicion extends to the people that
:27:06. > :27:09.used to be trusted to report tragedies like Grenfell.
:27:10. > :27:11.Now, the media is seen by some as peddling
:27:12. > :27:14.In collusion with the powerful to mislead and
:27:15. > :27:20.Do you have have a lot more faith in the people you talk to around
:27:21. > :27:26.More than the authorities or even the media, to explain?
:27:27. > :27:28.Yes, because we understand what we're
:27:29. > :27:31.going through, we are the ones going through it.
:27:32. > :27:33.And we understand it because we're all very close.
:27:34. > :27:43.Or put on what they want to see or what they
:27:44. > :27:48.We have had no trust in the council for years.
:27:49. > :27:51.So that has made us even worse than what we were.
:27:52. > :27:53.Do you simply not trust us to tell the truth?
:27:54. > :28:06.I have seen some things that they have shown and
:28:07. > :28:21.A human tragedy of this scale touches so many
:28:22. > :28:25.lives in ways that can never be recorded in official statistics.
:28:26. > :28:29.What is clear is that no appeal to the facts as explained and
:28:30. > :28:32.interpreted by authority figures and established media will do much
:28:33. > :28:42.to reform the strongly held opinions that swirl around this disaster.
:28:43. > :28:46.Sian Berry is a Chair of the Housing Committee
:28:47. > :29:01.And Shaun Bailey is a Conservative Party member of London's Assembly.
:29:02. > :29:04.He grew up close to Grenfell - in the borough of
:29:05. > :29:11.It would seem there has been an epic breakdown of public trust or an epic
:29:12. > :29:16.escalation. Do you think this dispute over the death toll is a
:29:17. > :29:19.symptom or a cause? I think it is a symptom, it has to be said there was
:29:20. > :29:23.a lack of information about the death toll and one thing the police
:29:24. > :29:26.normally do in cases like this is put out an estimate of who they
:29:27. > :29:30.think was in the incident and how many people might have survived and
:29:31. > :29:34.those key pieces of information were not given by the police for a very
:29:35. > :29:37.long time, they would only give that number so it is understandable there
:29:38. > :29:42.would be scepticism. I challenge the Mayor and the police and this week
:29:43. > :29:47.for the first time they have put out those numbers and we can have a
:29:48. > :29:50.debate, the police think there were 350 people inside and locals might
:29:51. > :29:53.have different views and before there was nothing to talk about
:29:54. > :29:59.because the police had not given those numbers. It is very important
:30:00. > :30:06.that is clear. In terms of general mistrust, I was called there, myself
:30:07. > :30:10.and Sean are London wide Assembly Members, representing everybody who
:30:11. > :30:14.needs our help and I was asked to come down five days in London are
:30:15. > :30:18.required to help get some practical things done. Largely for the wider
:30:19. > :30:22.community rather than people who had been evacuated, people still in the
:30:23. > :30:26.area, feeling besieged by the media, wondering where any support might
:30:27. > :30:30.be. An absolute lack of information about things like road closures,
:30:31. > :30:37.whether even the school would be open. There was nothing for people
:30:38. > :30:40.and I think you saw that day when you doing everything, there was no
:30:41. > :30:44.information. And it is still not much better and I am still getting
:30:45. > :30:49.messages from people every day, I have had to go back three or four
:30:50. > :30:56.times, there is something very broken there and people are still
:30:57. > :31:00.fending for themselves. This is a vacuum into which volunteers have
:31:01. > :31:04.moved and in many ways continue to bear the brunt of front-line service
:31:05. > :31:08.that the residents expected to be provided by the council. In the
:31:09. > :31:13.continuing absence of the council, it took the former head 80 days to
:31:14. > :31:16.effectively show his face in public before resigning. The continuing
:31:17. > :31:19.absence on the ground of the council, how can these people be
:31:20. > :31:24.expected to place faith in the council that they perceive as
:31:25. > :31:29.letting them down badly? They simply will not, I lived there for a very
:31:30. > :31:32.long time, my friends and family out there, the reaction of the community
:31:33. > :31:36.does not surprise me, they have always been reactive, we look after
:31:37. > :31:41.our own, the council failed by not giving this a human face and saying
:31:42. > :31:45.we are responsible for putting this right, I understand they are scared
:31:46. > :31:52.of litigation. Do you understand the scepticism about the numbers? I do
:31:53. > :31:56.not buy into the conspiracies but I fully understand why and where that
:31:57. > :31:59.is coming from. If you look at social housing, many people across
:32:00. > :32:04.London are under different leadership, Labour and Conservative
:32:05. > :32:09.and whatever, they feel social housing is inflicted upon them, they
:32:10. > :32:14.have no say, it is not explained why it works the way it does and does
:32:15. > :32:18.things have built up over years. Our community is told its Muslim members
:32:19. > :32:21.are terrorists and the young black men are criminals so they hold out
:32:22. > :32:25.to people who do not try to understand them. The council have
:32:26. > :32:29.built up quite a good reputation, they did a lot of work on the
:32:30. > :32:34.ground, that has been trashed by a very poor response to this. The new
:32:35. > :32:38.council leader has a very steep hill to climb. Some residents would
:32:39. > :32:42.dispute your notion that there was much in place to trashed. We are
:32:43. > :32:48.familiar with the action group's blog that warrant and predicted. You
:32:49. > :32:53.had a community on the ground that the council would largely work with
:32:54. > :32:56.a mini youth groups etc, but when it comes to social housing, which
:32:57. > :33:02.affects a much larger group of people in the area, the council were
:33:03. > :33:07.too distant, they have moved away. Do you understand how that has
:33:08. > :33:12.happened? Yes, as a country we do not punish those in high places and
:33:13. > :33:16.what happens, when I speak to young people, they say, I bet you nobody
:33:17. > :33:22.gets in trouble for this. And there is a very serious thing that can be
:33:23. > :33:29.done, the enquiry, the terms, how the Yoko -- local people... It is
:33:30. > :33:33.important someone explains to them what that enquiry means, you have to
:33:34. > :33:37.manage expectations right now because if not, you will never
:33:38. > :33:42.rebuild the trust. This is an important moment. The enquiry will
:33:43. > :33:44.fail without this trust? This is an important moment for the political
:33:45. > :33:51.establishment to start rebuilding trust. Do you have optimism that
:33:52. > :33:57.that can happen? Against a backdrop that is almost unspeakably big? Yes,
:33:58. > :34:01.local people are organising, trying their best but they are not being
:34:02. > :34:10.given resources and we need a complete reconfiguration of
:34:11. > :34:14.democracy there. ?300 million in Chelsea's back. Why not give that to
:34:15. > :34:19.voluntary groups to get on with what needs doing? We have seen three
:34:20. > :34:22.changes of leadership, of who is running the relief organisation and
:34:23. > :34:27.we are waiting for things to get sorted out, if those organisations
:34:28. > :34:35.and charities had the funding... It is not just about funding. In the
:34:36. > :34:38.short term. It is about disaster response, hand on heart, other
:34:39. > :34:43.council leaders across the country, can they say they would respond
:34:44. > :34:47.better? Probably not. You need a group of people seen enough to make
:34:48. > :34:51.decisions on the ground, anybody directly affected should not find
:34:52. > :34:55.things out in the media, they should be contacted directly and first. And
:34:56. > :35:00.that is not happening. Without that response and team and the seniority
:35:01. > :35:02.to deliver, you will always disappoint the local people. Many
:35:03. > :35:05.thanks to both of you for your time. The Government - in the shape
:35:06. > :35:09.of the Deputy Prime Minister in all but name, Damian Green -
:35:10. > :35:13.said today that it was likely that we'll get a good deal with the EU
:35:14. > :35:16.and the chances of there being no deal at all is
:35:17. > :35:18."probably overstated." But in tonight's Viewsnight,
:35:19. > :35:20.David Cameron's former advisor, Julian Glover, urges them to get
:35:21. > :37:02.on with it. On the issue of that deal -
:37:03. > :37:06.or no deal - with the EU, there are two particular issues that
:37:07. > :37:09.may need urgent attention. First, the UK's scheduled
:37:10. > :37:12.withdrawal from membership of the European nuclear regulator,
:37:13. > :37:16.Euratom, about which the medical and scientific communities have
:37:17. > :37:19.expressed grave concern. And - separately -
:37:20. > :37:23.we heard warnings today from Ryanair that all fights to the continent
:37:24. > :37:26.could be grounded if we don't get an air transport
:37:27. > :37:29.agreement in place sharpish. Our Political Editor,
:37:30. > :37:31.Nick Watt and our Business Editor, Helen Thomas have been looking
:37:32. > :37:45.into both of these matters. I will begin with Nick Watt. What do
:37:46. > :37:49.we know about the Euratom situation? The government is facing the
:37:50. > :37:53.prospect of its first major Brexit rebellion over plans to pull out of
:37:54. > :37:57.that treaty. I have learned the government is planning to negotiate
:37:58. > :38:03.a form of associate membership of that treaty. It is not technically
:38:04. > :38:06.an EU treaty but it is overseen by the European Court of Justice. I
:38:07. > :38:11.understand this movement by the government will be enough to satisfy
:38:12. > :38:16.some of the Tory rebels. They believe that associate membership
:38:17. > :38:20.could be happy halfway house that could set precedent for a half in,
:38:21. > :38:28.half out future relationship with the EU and they except the UK cannot
:38:29. > :38:32.go back into Euratom as a full member because advice from UK and EU
:38:33. > :38:37.lawyers is cleared- if you leave the EU, you have to leave Euratom, even
:38:38. > :38:40.though it is not technically an EU treaty. We might have to wait for
:38:41. > :38:45.this to be announced, the government will set out its position paper on
:38:46. > :38:49.Euratom but that will be general and the rebels will hold back for the
:38:50. > :38:57.moment. And some news on that Repeal Bill? Labour have announced this
:38:58. > :39:01.evening but unless that will is amended, they will vote against it
:39:02. > :39:06.at its second reading in early September. Keir Starmer, the Shadow
:39:07. > :39:10.Brexit Secretary, says that Bill allows the government to record too
:39:11. > :39:15.much power and mirrors what he described as flawed approach on the
:39:16. > :39:18.European Court of Justice. If Labour votes against it, it will not
:39:19. > :39:22.necessarily stop the bill in its tracks because potential Tory rebels
:39:23. > :39:27.would not vote against it at the second reading but it will embolden
:39:28. > :39:32.them to amend it with Labour further down the line and ministers are not
:39:33. > :39:37.happy, they say, do not reverse the will of the people. Many thanks.
:39:38. > :39:42.Helen, what did Michael O'Leary have to say? Classic Michael O'Leary, he
:39:43. > :39:48.was in the European Parliament, time to do with reality, flights. After
:39:49. > :39:51.Brexit, Ryanair would shift their craft, we will have to holiday in
:39:52. > :39:57.Scotland or Ireland. You get the idea. The single market and aviation
:39:58. > :40:01.allows airlines to fly freely in Europe and is no fallback option so
:40:02. > :40:05.you need a new agreement and his view is this will not happen because
:40:06. > :40:09.of the red lines put around negotiations by the government and
:40:10. > :40:13.that is debatable. What is truth is airlines sell seats about one year
:40:14. > :40:16.in advance so you need to get a move on. You say classic Michael O'Leary,
:40:17. > :40:19.is airlines sell seats about one year in advance so you need to get a
:40:20. > :40:22.move on. You say classic Michael O'Leary, busy flying solo? I have
:40:23. > :40:26.spoken to several industry types and they are overwhelmingly confident
:40:27. > :40:30.there will be a deal, Willie Walsh, the boss of the owner of British
:40:31. > :40:35.Airways says he thought it would be relatively straightforward. The
:40:36. > :40:39.reasoning, governments on both sides and airlines on both sides want to
:40:40. > :40:45.deal, otherwise everybody loses, tourism, trade and business. There
:40:46. > :40:49.are compensations, a basic bilateral deal preserves UK to Europe flights
:40:50. > :40:53.and vice versa but not necessarily easy jet flying around Europe.
:40:54. > :40:59.Ownership is a problem because current rules require you to be a
:41:00. > :41:02.majority EU owned. Ultimately, the industry thinks we will get a deal
:41:03. > :41:04.because it would be unimaginable chaos without that. Thank you both
:41:05. > :41:06.very much indeed. We just had to leave you with this
:41:07. > :41:11.piece of surreal theatre from Perhaps by repeating it we're just
:41:12. > :41:17.proving the author's point, but here's the actor Andy Serkis,
:41:18. > :41:20.who plays Gollum in The Lord of the Rings, reading out
:41:21. > :41:22.Donald Trump's Twitter feed. AS GOLLUM: The fake news media has
:41:23. > :41:29.never been so wrong... Purposefully incorrect
:41:30. > :41:37.stories and funny sources. We had a beautiful day
:41:38. > :41:56.across the UK today, just a bit of fairweather cloud
:41:57. > :41:59.here and there. Tonight, clear skies
:42:00. > :42:02.and there is raw chill on way,