:00:07. > :00:11.Guilty: the top family court judge hands out an excoriating criticism
:00:12. > :00:15.of mental health support for the young.
:00:16. > :00:24.The particular case concerns a suicidal 17-year-old,
:00:25. > :00:26.but it's a worrying sign that many others in a dangerous
:00:27. > :00:31.And when they leave hospital, when they're at their greatest need,
:00:32. > :00:34.at their highest risk of suicide, they don't get the support
:00:35. > :00:38.We'll ask if the judge is right, and if so,
:00:39. > :00:42.Despite the prospect of Brexit, or because of it.
:00:43. > :00:45.Britain's economy is sluggish according to the Bank of England.
:00:46. > :00:48.Is it right to be so pessimistic about the prospects?
:00:49. > :00:56.We may have lost tonight, but everyone's talking
:00:57. > :01:02.The amazing hockey win in Rio, the women's cricket last week,
:01:03. > :01:05.women's rugby just off to the World Cup.
:01:06. > :01:16.We feel that this is a watershed moment for women's sport, really.
:01:17. > :01:23.Every now and then, a judge wants to use the power of the bench
:01:24. > :01:26.to make a point that perhaps goes well beyond the specifics
:01:27. > :01:31.Such is the case today, with Sir James Munby,
:01:32. > :01:34.the president of Family Division of the High Court who uttered
:01:35. > :01:36.scathing words about the treatment options for a suicidal 17
:01:37. > :01:42.If this is the best we can do for her, and others in similar
:01:43. > :01:44.crisis, what right do we, what right do the system,
:01:45. > :01:46.our society and indeed the state itself, have
:01:47. > :01:50.The honest answer to this question should make us
:01:51. > :01:56.The girl has been in custody for six months, but is due to be released
:01:57. > :02:03.Staff at the unit where she is being held think she will be dead
:02:04. > :02:05.within days of release if supervised care is not found,
:02:06. > :02:07.but no appropriate secure place is available.
:02:08. > :02:18.What right does our society have to call itself civilised given the poor
:02:19. > :02:24.mental health services we provide for young people, that is the
:02:25. > :02:29.question posed by a senior judge, reflecting on the fate of a
:02:30. > :02:34.17-year-old woman known only as X who needs a place in the so-called
:02:35. > :02:41.low secure psychiatric unit, a place that so far can't be found. Sir
:02:42. > :02:47.James Munby's criticism of the government is unusually fierce and
:02:48. > :02:50.he had it sent to the relevant secretaries of state, but facing a
:02:51. > :02:54.case where a young woman was being let down by our mental health
:02:55. > :03:01.services he felt he had no choice but to speak truth to power.
:03:02. > :03:08.Sir James Munby said restraints have to be used on 117 occasions and
:03:09. > :03:19.there have been 102 significant acts of self harm or
:03:20. > :03:25.NHS England hopes tonight that a suitable care package might be found
:03:26. > :03:29.at one of three facilities, but there is a general problem with
:03:30. > :03:33.mental health care for young people. The young people and parents tell us
:03:34. > :03:36.that they have to navigate the gaps in the system themselves and they
:03:37. > :03:40.have to wait ridiculously long periods of time before receiving
:03:41. > :03:44.that treatment, that might even be six months. There is a particular
:03:45. > :03:48.problem for people with eating disorders. Some young people are
:03:49. > :03:52.told their weight is too high to receive care right now, and when
:03:53. > :03:55.they leave hospital at a time of great need them when they are at
:03:56. > :04:01.their highest risk of suicidal but they don't get the support they
:04:02. > :04:07.need. A royal college psych I survey confirms this picture. 89% said they
:04:08. > :04:12.knew of young people being placed into care which is not local, a
:04:13. > :04:14.challenge from local government and families, and 62% reported young
:04:15. > :04:21.people being put into inappropriate settings like adult wards or police
:04:22. > :04:26.cells and 14% reported patients had attempted suicide while awaiting a
:04:27. > :04:30.bed. Respondents also save money has been a problem. The government
:04:31. > :04:34.pledged new money to transform children's mental health and that is
:04:35. > :04:39.welcome but our research last year showed that money was not reaching
:04:40. > :04:43.the front line and in fact half of all commissioners were spending it
:04:44. > :04:46.on other priorities. There is a particular problem around young
:04:47. > :04:53.adults who have left the young People's system and joined the back
:04:54. > :04:56.the adult queue. When you turn 18, literally at midnight you are taken
:04:57. > :05:00.off their system and not given any further support and to be put into
:05:01. > :05:08.adult services counselling you have two self referred to a different
:05:09. > :05:15.system. And there are new queues? Yes, eight months waiting list for
:05:16. > :05:20.them Harriet was admitted to and adult ward which struggled with her
:05:21. > :05:25.needs. I saw the age gap between me and the other patients can quite
:05:26. > :05:28.some distance, 25 years, I would say, and also the gender difference,
:05:29. > :05:35.I was in a ward with around 12 men and three other women. It was gender
:05:36. > :05:39.inappropriate and there were no appropriate activities. Harriet was
:05:40. > :05:44.diagnosed with bipolar disorder and she said there was a lack of nurses.
:05:45. > :05:47.There were not enough of them to look after us individually and when
:05:48. > :05:51.I was attacked by a schizophrenic man on Christmas Day it was another
:05:52. > :05:57.patient who saved me, if you like, before the shift nurse. And there
:05:58. > :06:01.weren't many psychiatrists question up I waited 11 days before I was
:06:02. > :06:06.seen by a psychiatrist and when they see you, they see you for ten
:06:07. > :06:09.minutes. Mental health has had a higher profile in recent years but
:06:10. > :06:10.this is still an area where there are serious systematic problems for
:06:11. > :06:14.children and adults alike. Interestingly, last week,
:06:15. > :06:17.the New York Times carried a long item on mental health provision
:06:18. > :06:20.in England, describing it as "the world's most ambitious
:06:21. > :06:23.effort to treat common mental illnesses", implying that the rest
:06:24. > :06:29.of the world is watching Well, I am joined by the former
:06:30. > :06:35.Minister for Children and Families Tim Loughton and mental
:06:36. > :06:44.health activist Nikki Mattocks. You had many problems going right
:06:45. > :06:54.back to childhood. We have heard one case in that film, how bad was it
:06:55. > :06:59.for you? I became ill when I was about 14 and I struggled to get the
:07:00. > :07:04.help I needed, and I was going to A repeatedly in a state of crisis,
:07:05. > :07:08.I was taking overdoses and self harming and I was struggling with my
:07:09. > :07:12.mental health. I was desperately trying to get help and my family was
:07:13. > :07:16.on my behalf, as welcomer but there was a massive barrier and I could
:07:17. > :07:22.access the help I needed -- the help. Until I took numerous
:07:23. > :07:31.overdoses and I was finally listened to for the what happens when you go
:07:32. > :07:34.to A? What is the spirits? You go there, the staff are generally
:07:35. > :07:41.physical health trained and they don't understand the support and the
:07:42. > :07:46.support you get is it necessarily helpful as you get judged a lot, but
:07:47. > :07:50.you get seen by someone. I sometimes waited 18 hours, sitting there not
:07:51. > :07:54.knowing what was going on, it is not appropriate for a person to go there
:07:55. > :07:59.in crisis but that is where often we are sent to go. Did you ever get a
:08:00. > :08:05.regular, stable consistent therapy of some kind that you needed? I did
:08:06. > :08:10.manage, but from the start when I asked for help until the time when I
:08:11. > :08:15.got the help I needed it took a long time, far too long. If more focus
:08:16. > :08:18.was put into preventative services rather than crisis services it would
:08:19. > :08:27.never have got to the point where it did. Tim is nodding his head. You
:08:28. > :08:31.are trading to be a mental health nurse, so you see the service from
:08:32. > :08:39.the other side stop better or worse now? I think people are trying their
:08:40. > :08:42.best but because the resources are not bear from the government and
:08:43. > :08:49.things, it is a massive struggle for everyone. Thanks for that. Tim, do
:08:50. > :08:58.you agree with what the judge had to say today? I do, I'm afraid. Sir
:08:59. > :09:04.James Munby is a senior and well respected judge, and am afraid what
:09:05. > :09:07.he said is nothing new. And it is one aspect of the shortcomings of
:09:08. > :09:11.mental health services in this country especially for children and
:09:12. > :09:14.young people and vulnerable people, and I agree with everything that was
:09:15. > :09:18.just said, and it is right that she has come forward and will speak up
:09:19. > :09:23.about it. This is a severe wake-up call we have got do much better for
:09:24. > :09:29.children in our country who are suffering these kind of mental
:09:30. > :09:33.illnesses. What will happen to X, the woman involved in the case the
:09:34. > :09:42.judge was talking about. He wants her in a low secure unit where she
:09:43. > :09:46.is not held to stop other -- attacking other people, although she
:09:47. > :09:49.is clearly a danger to herself, but there aren't many beds. What is
:09:50. > :09:56.going to happen if there isn't one of those beds? It looks as though in
:09:57. > :10:00.this case NHS England has come forward and identified the places
:10:01. > :10:04.that might be able to offer her a bed when she needs it and hopefully
:10:05. > :10:10.offer her the support and care and protection that she needs for as
:10:11. > :10:12.long as it takes, but this is a high-profile problem today but I'm
:10:13. > :10:17.afraid it is something which happens all too often, there is a shortage
:10:18. > :10:22.of beds generally certainly at the severe end. The shortage of beds for
:10:23. > :10:25.those people who need help because they are a harm to themselves
:10:26. > :10:32.potentially but also in some cases they are a harm to others if they
:10:33. > :10:38.are out at large. But also we have got to do much better as was just
:10:39. > :10:43.so, not just crisis management, but early detection and prevention and
:10:44. > :10:47.that means getting more staff in at an earlier stage, early detection
:10:48. > :10:51.and earlier support an effective support and this is not happening in
:10:52. > :10:56.too many cases at the moment. Did you see the piece in the New York
:10:57. > :11:00.Times last week, it was a long piece about England as this pioneering
:11:01. > :11:05.nation in mental health, is that right? Are we doing something? It
:11:06. > :11:10.read a bit strangely with what we know about the treatment here. I did
:11:11. > :11:14.not see that article, and I was surprised by it when you said it,
:11:15. > :11:19.but there are some very good services in this country in all
:11:20. > :11:23.parts of the NHS and in mental health, as well, but the problem is
:11:24. > :11:28.there is not enough of it. To give the government credit, more money
:11:29. > :11:34.has been an ounce, ?1.3 billion and earlier this week Jeremy Hunt said
:11:35. > :11:37.we will be recruiting 23,000, a lot of people, and that will be a big
:11:38. > :11:42.challenge in mental health in the next five years, with the five-year
:11:43. > :11:46.plan. I want to see that come to fruition, but the problem is, there
:11:47. > :11:50.are too many young people now who is mental illness is not picked up
:11:51. > :11:54.early enough. Half of people who have a mental illness problem, that
:11:55. > :11:59.will develop before they reach the age of 14, and if you don't do
:12:00. > :12:02.something about it early, then of course it festers and continues and
:12:03. > :12:08.becomes a much worse illness later on. We have got to detect early and
:12:09. > :12:14.have the people there who can offer all sorts of appropriate therapies
:12:15. > :12:17.inappropriate settings and quickly, and it would be a national scandal
:12:18. > :12:22.if we expected people who have symptoms of cancer to wait six or 12
:12:23. > :12:27.months before they got specialist treatment and why should it be
:12:28. > :12:33.anything different for someone suffering a mental illness. Everyone
:12:34. > :12:37.agrees with this, but there is a parallel to what we were discussing
:12:38. > :12:43.last night regarding prisons, and we had a Tory former minister saying
:12:44. > :12:47.last night we have not dealt with prisons properly, and now you are
:12:48. > :12:49.saying we have not dealt with children's mental health services
:12:50. > :12:55.properly, so what is the country supposed to do? You have been in
:12:56. > :13:00.government for the last seven years. What is the countrymen to do? We
:13:01. > :13:09.look to you to get this right -- the country meant to do. We don't need
:13:10. > :13:13.to make this a particle -- party political issue, because we have not
:13:14. > :13:17.got this right for many years and this case is not a one-off case by
:13:18. > :13:20.any means. The thing that links the interview last night and this one is
:13:21. > :13:26.mental health because that is a big problem in prisons. There is a
:13:27. > :13:31.mindset still amongst NHS management that mental health is a secondary
:13:32. > :13:37.issue and is not a priority and for all the good words about parity of
:13:38. > :13:41.esteem it is not there in practice and that is why the extra money that
:13:42. > :13:45.is going into mental health, not enough, but at least it is extra
:13:46. > :13:48.money going into mental health, is not getting to the sharp end where
:13:49. > :13:51.is needed and it is being diverted into repairing the hospital roof and
:13:52. > :13:56.other crisis management in other parts of the health service and that
:13:57. > :14:01.has got to stop. We need proper practitioners giving the service at
:14:02. > :14:07.the sharp end when it is needed. Thank you very much to both of you.
:14:08. > :14:10.It's never a quiet day in Washington, and in the last hour
:14:11. > :14:12.news has broken that the special counsel investigating the Trump
:14:13. > :14:14.team's ties to Russia, Robert Mueller, has put together
:14:15. > :14:17.a grand jury that has the right to compel people to give evidence.
:14:18. > :14:24.John Sopel's here to tell us what this all means.
:14:25. > :14:33.Is this a significant development in this special Counsel's actions? Yes,
:14:34. > :14:37.it is significant, but let me add a couple of caveats, does not mean
:14:38. > :14:44.that any prosecution or indictment is imminent, it doesn't mean that
:14:45. > :14:48.there will be any, but a prosecution could not happen without a grand
:14:49. > :14:54.jury being sworn in. If you like, it is the next logical step in the
:14:55. > :14:59.investigation. That said, as you point out, they will be able to take
:15:00. > :15:02.sworn statements from witnesses, subpoena people and documents to the
:15:03. > :15:07.investigation, and to the simple question, does this mean the
:15:08. > :15:12.investigation is winding down... Or ramping up...? Only one conclusion,
:15:13. > :15:17.it is ramping up. Are the proceedings all in public, the grand
:15:18. > :15:22.jury proceedings? Now, a lot of this is going to take place behind closed
:15:23. > :15:27.doors, what will happen is, they are going to follow the evidence
:15:28. > :15:31.wherever it takes them, it means they have great investigative
:15:32. > :15:36.powers, they can compel people to give evidence. Speaking about one of
:15:37. > :15:41.the first meetings they want to look at is the meeting that Donald Trump
:15:42. > :15:44.junior had with the then campaign manager, and Jared Kushner, with the
:15:45. > :15:49.Russians, to get dirt on Hillary Clinton. I should say there has been
:15:50. > :15:53.some reaction from Donald Trump's legal team, the President's legal
:15:54. > :15:56.team have said, the White House favours any that would excel rate
:15:57. > :16:00.the conclusion of this work fairly, the White House is committed to
:16:01. > :16:04.fully cooperating with Robert Mueller, that is very conciliatory.
:16:05. > :16:08.Will those be the sentiments of Donald Trump tonight? I would guess
:16:09. > :16:15.not, I would imagine he is spitting tacks about it!
:16:16. > :16:19.The Bank of England didn't raise interest rates today.
:16:20. > :16:23.And it also published its latest quarterly inflation report,
:16:24. > :16:25.which gave a somewhat Brexit-sceptic view of the economy.
:16:26. > :16:27.The bank's not predicting doom and gloom, but it IS predicting
:16:28. > :16:32.The bank governor didn't use the words "despite Brexit,
:16:33. > :16:37.because of Brexit the economy is not doing so well.
:16:38. > :16:40.Three reasons: in the short term, it's all about us, the consumer.
:16:41. > :16:43.We've already been hit by an effective pay cut thanks
:16:44. > :16:48.to a lower exchange rate, pushing up prices.
:16:49. > :16:52.Households looked through Brexit related uncertainties
:16:53. > :16:57.as the consequences of sterling's fall have shown up in the shops
:16:58. > :17:03.they've cut back on spending, slowing the economy.
:17:04. > :17:07.In the medium term, it's about business investment.
:17:08. > :17:11.Because if consumers spend less, we'd like companies to spend more.
:17:12. > :17:19.they've invested much less aggressively than usual
:17:20. > :17:23.in response to an otherwise very favourable environment.
:17:24. > :17:27.less investment now means less productive capacity into the future.
:17:28. > :17:29.Moreover, prolonged low investment will restrain growth in the capital
:17:30. > :17:37.Indeed, if the MPC's current forecast comes to pass,
:17:38. > :17:53.the level of investment in 2020 is expected to be 20 points
:17:54. > :17:55.below the level which the MPC had projected just
:17:56. > :17:59.That is the banks expert view, but who knows if they are right,
:18:00. > :18:02.or trapped in a Remainer mindset and sticking to an old script?
:18:03. > :18:04.With me now, Gerard Lyons, one of the most prominent Brexit
:18:05. > :18:06.supporting economists, who has worked or works
:18:07. > :18:10.And Ann Pettifor, who is author of the book "The Production
:18:11. > :18:14.of Money" and a member of Labour's economic advisory committee.
:18:15. > :18:20.Do you agree with my interpretation that the bank is taking a Brexit
:18:21. > :18:24.sceptic view? Certainly, clearly one needs to be realistic, because there
:18:25. > :18:30.are challenges, what struck me today was that in his opening statement,
:18:31. > :18:33.the governor was cautious, blamed Brexit for everything, then in the
:18:34. > :18:38.one-hour press conference, in terms of the short-term, he came out with
:18:39. > :18:41.four positives, in my view, if he was balanced, he should have
:18:42. > :18:46.mentioned them at the beginning. Inflation is falling, consumers
:18:47. > :18:50.bending will grow in line with income, therefore there will not be
:18:51. > :18:54.a rise in debt, he said the balance of the economy is going to improve,
:18:55. > :18:57.exports and investment picking up. And also he talked about the fact
:18:58. > :19:03.that the world economy will improve. Why Frankie, even though he was
:19:04. > :19:07.cautious, in the one-hour press conference, you had to squeeze out
:19:08. > :19:14.of ten reasons to be optimistic. Clearly there are challenges, no one
:19:15. > :19:17.denies that. -- well, frankly. The bank has been optimistic for a long
:19:18. > :19:24.time, about wage rights, investment, all kinds of things, and proven
:19:25. > :19:28.wrong. It was pessimistic about Brexit, there was a lot more going
:19:29. > :19:34.to go wrong band did go wrong. This time last year, Mark Carney said,
:19:35. > :19:41.plan is better than no plans. Fully a year later, no plans. -- there was
:19:42. > :19:46.a lot more going to go wrong than did go wrong. Lets remember that one
:19:47. > :19:49.year ago, the Bank of England and the Treasury said that by now, we
:19:50. > :19:51.would have half a mini and people unemployed because of the leave
:19:52. > :19:58.vote, what has happened, unemployment is at a 42 yellow.
:19:59. > :20:02.There are challenges, wages are not picking up, the governor seemed to
:20:03. > :20:08.suggest that was because of Brexit. -- unemployment is at a 42 year low.
:20:09. > :20:12.That is what is scary, the global economy, despite what Gerrit says
:20:13. > :20:17.about the positive aspects, the global economy is weakening.
:20:18. > :20:20.Inflation is falling. Everyone has been warning about rises in
:20:21. > :20:25.inflation, and members of the Bank of England, they are willing to put
:20:26. > :20:29.up interest rates, at a time when the consumer is quite vulnerable. --
:20:30. > :20:36.Gerard. We are very dependent upon consumers. And high levels of debt.
:20:37. > :20:43.I don't think it is half as positive. Is it your view that there
:20:44. > :20:48.is a groupthink, a confirmation bias, some kind of cognitive process
:20:49. > :20:51.that is gripping the economic establishment and the Bank of
:20:52. > :20:55.England in particular? Economic has been gripped by groupthink for ages,
:20:56. > :20:58.when I said the Lawson boom was going to become a bust, I was told I
:20:59. > :21:03.was wrong, I was told I was wrong that if we left the way it is a good
:21:04. > :21:07.thing. There is groupthink. Today what is interesting, over and above
:21:08. > :21:10.groupthink, something and has touched upon, it is about longer
:21:11. > :21:16.term deep-rooted structural problems, what was underlying the
:21:17. > :21:21.bank's pessimism was not Brexit, it was a lack of investment and low
:21:22. > :21:25.productivity. Add Brexit to that, lack of planning, a government that
:21:26. > :21:33.is paranoid, and... They certainly should plan more, no doubt. Do you
:21:34. > :21:39.buy this figure, in 2020, 20% dollar investment, then there would be. --
:21:40. > :21:43.20% lull investments. That is very possible, deep lack of confidence,
:21:44. > :21:47.the big thing that is missing is that the private sector is over
:21:48. > :21:53.indebted, worried, lacking in confidence. -- 20% lower
:21:54. > :21:58.investments. The government should be stepping in but instead, it is
:21:59. > :22:03.opposed to investment, that will not even move the needle. -- proposed.
:22:04. > :22:07.More infrastructure, things like that. The government has to step in
:22:08. > :22:12.because the private sector is so weak, despite interest rates. Do you
:22:13. > :22:21.buy this figure, do you accept that by 2020, investment may be 20%
:22:22. > :22:24.lower. Yes. Today, the governor said, the supply is down to one and
:22:25. > :22:27.three quarters percent, but in the press conference, he said they have
:22:28. > :22:31.been cutting it for the last nine yes, what we need is investment,
:22:32. > :22:36.infrastructure spending and more innovation. The three Is. If we have
:22:37. > :22:40.Brexit and we do it properly, we will not only protect workers'
:22:41. > :22:47.rights, we will have more innovation from the small medium-sized business
:22:48. > :22:51.sector. This is far too delusional, honestly, you cannot... There are
:22:52. > :22:55.challenges, I agree. Brexit is going to be utterly destructive and we
:22:56. > :23:00.have no plan for it, short-term, medium-term, long-term plan, for
:23:01. > :23:02.what will happen to this complex network of relationships, trading
:23:03. > :23:08.relationships we have with European partners, we have no plan, no proper
:23:09. > :23:12.transitional plan. And that is terrifying. And that is why we have
:23:13. > :23:16.low-level is of investment, low-level is... Why we will continue
:23:17. > :23:20.to have... You must accept that Brexit has at least put a lot of
:23:21. > :23:24.company's decisions on hold, so maybe there will be a spurt when...
:23:25. > :23:28.At the moment they are saying, we had better wait and see. A year ago
:23:29. > :23:33.I was on this programme and I thought the economy would do well
:23:34. > :23:39.over the last year, it did do, I called it a Nike swoosh, that there
:23:40. > :23:43.might be an impact on uncertainty, there is a reaction between policy
:23:44. > :23:47.and competence, the most difficult to predict is confidence, if the
:23:48. > :23:51.leaders start to talk us into an unnecessary downturn, then those
:23:52. > :23:56.people, those companies, the ability to spend or not spend, what I'm
:23:57. > :24:01.saying is, we need more balance in the debate, Brexit has challenges
:24:02. > :24:05.but great opportunities. If we have a unplanned Brexit and a weakening
:24:06. > :24:09.economy, that is the worst of all worlds, that is terrifying for most
:24:10. > :24:11.people involved, both in the public and private sector. The debate
:24:12. > :24:22.remains unresolved. Paul Kagame has been the President
:24:23. > :24:24.of Rwanda since 2000, but has had a dominant role
:24:25. > :24:27.in running the country right back to the time
:24:28. > :24:29.of the civil war of the 90s, when his rebels brought
:24:30. > :24:32.an end to the genocide. he faces the voters again tomorrow
:24:33. > :24:36.in a national election. Although pundits have
:24:37. > :24:41.got a lot of electoral predictions wrong recently,
:24:42. > :24:42.no-one has much doubt that Kagame will still be
:24:43. > :24:45.in power after the ballot. For one thing, at the last election
:24:46. > :24:48.in 2010, he got 93 % of the vote. And anyway, three potential
:24:49. > :24:50.opponents were disqualified from standing by the electoral
:24:51. > :24:52.commission there. But Kagame is a complex
:24:53. > :24:53.character, and arouses very
:24:54. > :24:54.different reactions. Here he is speaking
:24:55. > :24:57.in 1999 about the genocide Well, you can imagine,
:24:58. > :24:59.somebody, an orphan, no father, the mother,
:25:00. > :25:01.no sisters, no relatives. We need to get together,
:25:02. > :25:15.we need to understand our history, we need to educate our people
:25:16. > :25:24.how to overcome that, but those who were responsible
:25:25. > :25:26.for the genocide For some, he's just another African
:25:27. > :25:29.dictator, albeit a smooth talker. For others, he's a force
:25:30. > :25:33.for stability despite any flaws. a former aide to President Kagame
:25:34. > :25:56.who is now in exile in Canada. What was it that made you leave?
:25:57. > :26:01.Well, my issue, actually, was more about statistical manipulations, he
:26:02. > :26:10.always wanted... He would basically dictate the percentages that
:26:11. > :26:20.economic growth had achieved. I was always uncomfortable, and I started
:26:21. > :26:26.to oppose him, and that would have been 2009. As we were getting closer
:26:27. > :26:32.to the elections, that we just mentioned, the place started to get
:26:33. > :26:37.a lot more violence... I decided that was not for me. I fled and I
:26:38. > :26:41.went to South Africa. There will be an election tomorrow, you obviously
:26:42. > :26:48.will not be voting, you are in ex-aisle. We are certain he wins, is
:26:49. > :26:53.it a free and fair election? No, it cannot be a fair election because
:26:54. > :27:00.the people who could have challenged him have been blocked from
:27:01. > :27:06.competing. Almost all the political parties are behind him. And he
:27:07. > :27:14.himself announced a few days ago that he will win by 100%. So that is
:27:15. > :27:18.exact to what will happen, the opposition, in early elections, some
:27:19. > :27:26.of the opposition leaders were imprisoned. They remain in prison.
:27:27. > :27:31.One of them was killed. And others have fled into ex-aisle. I would be
:27:32. > :27:36.surprised indeed if he does not get 100%. He seems to have a way with a
:27:37. > :27:41.lot of foreign leaders, Bill Clinton called him one of the great leaders
:27:42. > :27:50.of our time. What is it that you think makes him so impressive to
:27:51. > :28:00.many others? Basically, he has developed a brand about himself, he
:28:01. > :28:03.has branded himself as kind of a equivalent to the premiere of
:28:04. > :28:12.Singapore, developing reminder, and he has argued there is a trade-off.
:28:13. > :28:15.What has to be done now is economic development, human rights and
:28:16. > :28:23.democracy can wait. A lot of people have bought into that. Plus, there
:28:24. > :28:27.was a bit of sympathy, given to the way that the UN moralists abandoned
:28:28. > :28:37.reminder during the genocide. So people have turned a blind eye. --
:28:38. > :28:44.abandoned Rwanda. The price isn't too high, when you look at the total
:28:45. > :28:52.suppression of the population. Despite this economic miracle. The
:28:53. > :28:57.UK aid programme, we give aid to Rwanda and you think it is wrong to
:28:58. > :29:03.do that. Yes, the British aid is the worst age, because basically,
:29:04. > :29:09.Britain dumps taxpayer money into Paul Kagame's budget, and he is the
:29:10. > :29:14.only one that decides what happens. What happens to British aid? You
:29:15. > :29:17.will never know, at least other countries... Yes? I need to move
:29:18. > :29:21.onto Andrew Mitchell, but your point has been well made.
:29:22. > :29:22.And joining me now is former International Development
:29:23. > :29:30.Do you buy this criticism of aid, we were suspending aid, you were the
:29:31. > :29:36.Secretary of State who came in and said, turn on the tap, give him the
:29:37. > :29:39.cash. I suspended it and then restored it, and indeed, it has been
:29:40. > :29:44.restored not as general budget support, David is wrong on that
:29:45. > :29:48.point, but as specific support to agriculture and education. We know
:29:49. > :29:53.that in Rwanda, the quality of the way our money is spent is yielding
:29:54. > :29:56.quite remarkable results, for example, in the last three or four
:29:57. > :30:01.is, Rwanda has managed to lift more than 1 million people out of
:30:02. > :30:07.poverty, remarkable success story. -- in the last three or four years.
:30:08. > :30:12.David says that the statistics have been made up, so we know that from
:30:13. > :30:16.our own statistics. It is followed very carefully by that department,
:30:17. > :30:20.and it is in Rwanda. David says that a lot of people take the view,
:30:21. > :30:23.trample over human rights if you can get the economy right, is that your
:30:24. > :30:27.view of how develop and sometimes work? It is not, because I think we
:30:28. > :30:31.are right to press with reminder that they open up the political
:30:32. > :30:37.space more, open of the media space more. -- with Rwanda. But they have
:30:38. > :30:40.made remarkable progress since this terrible genocide took place and the
:30:41. > :30:44.country was destroyed. The truth is, president Paul Kagame rescued his
:30:45. > :30:49.country while the world looked the other way and has built a stable and
:30:50. > :30:54.strong state, and if you are a waitress, working there tonight, you
:30:55. > :30:57.can walk home safely, for people like that, that is the first and
:30:58. > :31:02.most important human rights, that the terrible violence in Rwanda was
:31:03. > :31:08.ended. Will the election be free and fair? Yes.
:31:09. > :31:17.I suspect he will win, although the numbers will go down because the
:31:18. > :31:19.space has opened up, but the previous elections were marred by
:31:20. > :31:25.violence and that hasn't happened this time for the day last two
:31:26. > :31:30.elections were over 90%, was that a true reflection of public support? I
:31:31. > :31:33.think it is, this is a country that was destroyed by Buydens but he has
:31:34. > :31:40.stopped that and he has built an economy that is strong -- destroyed
:31:41. > :31:45.by violence. We have got to be careful in the West, not judging
:31:46. > :31:49.ways to a Westminster lens, and I say this, although previous
:31:50. > :31:53.elections were marred by elements of violence, this election so far has
:31:54. > :31:56.been entirely peaceful and it has been more peaceful than the British
:31:57. > :32:01.election which took place a few months ago. But the Electoral
:32:02. > :32:07.Commission has banned some of the most credible opponents. There was
:32:08. > :32:10.one opponent who did not have the correct number of supporters on her
:32:11. > :32:15.nomination paper and in Britain, if we stand in an election we have to
:32:16. > :32:18.have a certain number of supporters who are on the register in our
:32:19. > :32:22.constituencies, and she was in breach of that. If I had been in
:32:23. > :32:30.breach of that at the last election I would not STUDIO: -- I would
:32:31. > :32:36.have been struck off the register, as well. I am listening to your
:32:37. > :32:42.critic but I hear these criticisms of the Labour Party regarding
:32:43. > :32:49.Venezuelan politics at the moment, but you seem to be taking a rather
:32:50. > :32:57.ambivalent view of Paul Kagame. Are you starry eye? I have been there
:32:58. > :33:00.before, I will be taking a project there, we know the country very
:33:01. > :33:06.well, and we know what is happening there, and I have not said anything
:33:07. > :33:11.about the Labour Party and Venezuela, but I would say that they
:33:12. > :33:17.are completely different, Rwanada and byes. Rwanda is much better run.
:33:18. > :33:22.Thanks for joining us. So in the women's European
:33:23. > :33:24.football championships tonight, England lost
:33:25. > :33:27.to the Netherlands, 3-0. Sadly failing to make their way
:33:28. > :33:31.to the final of the tournament. The viewing figures for the match
:33:32. > :33:35.are not in yet, obviously, but the audience for Sunday's
:33:36. > :33:38.quarter final game on Channel 4 In fact, that England France game
:33:39. > :33:42.was even watched by a million The money for womens' football may
:33:43. > :33:46.be small, the entire revenue for the tournament is probably
:33:47. > :33:49.a tenth of Neymar's transfer fee, but as everybody keeps saying,
:33:50. > :33:51.there is unprecedented interest Our culture editor, Stephen Smith
:33:52. > :34:02.has jumped on the bandwagon. COMMENTATOR: Three
:34:03. > :34:04.in the penalty area. It was a decisive win
:34:05. > :34:13.for the Lionesses. But alas, for fans of
:34:14. > :34:15.England's women, that turned out to be the nickname
:34:16. > :34:18.of the Dutch team as well as ours. But even though England have been
:34:19. > :34:24.dumped out of the semis, the consolation for the losers
:34:25. > :34:27.is that their run in the tournament has put the game
:34:28. > :34:35.in the spotlight at home. ARCHIVE VOICOVER: Girls
:34:36. > :34:37.will be girls, and as football is a man's game,
:34:38. > :34:40.girls have to play it. And take a look at the way these
:34:41. > :34:43.Darlington girls dress for the game. The women's game hasn't always
:34:44. > :34:46.basked in the unalloyed respect of the men who attended to report
:34:47. > :34:48.on it and administered it. You never saw such fast
:34:49. > :34:51.girls in your life. At least the 10,000
:34:52. > :34:52.spectators think so. Altogether there is
:34:53. > :34:54.a lot of pretty play. Despite the sizeable crowd drawn
:34:55. > :34:57.to this fixture, the FA frowned on women's football
:34:58. > :34:59.for a while as unladylike. I think if you talk to these
:35:00. > :35:02.players, of course they want to earn a living, and so they should,
:35:03. > :35:05.playing the game they love, but what makes them special
:35:06. > :35:07.and what is very visible when you work with them,
:35:08. > :35:10.is they haven't lost the feeling Someone who had to battle through
:35:11. > :35:15.life to be the best you could be. And I think we want that
:35:16. > :35:17.sort of Olympian spirit, Shot-stopping practice
:35:18. > :35:22.for the London Bees, putting in some preseason
:35:23. > :35:25.training this evening. They are semiprofessional
:35:26. > :35:26.players, earning several They are linked to the second
:35:27. > :35:36.division men's side Barnet. The women play to crowds
:35:37. > :35:41.of up to 700 supporters. There is clearly not as much money
:35:42. > :35:45.in the game so you probably have more female players who are just
:35:46. > :35:48.in it for the love of the game. I think there's a few of the girls
:35:49. > :35:56.already who are full-time in the top women's league but I think it needs
:35:57. > :36:00.to progress throughout the top couple of women's leagues for it
:36:01. > :36:04.to really push on and progress. Because if we have our full-time
:36:05. > :36:08.jobs and then we're coming to training until 1030 at night,
:36:09. > :36:11.then we have got to be in our jobs the next day
:36:12. > :36:15.it is quite hard mentally. Are there still misconceptions,
:36:16. > :36:17.things that people say to you that Yes, there will always be people
:36:18. > :36:23.who compare men's and women's football but to be honest
:36:24. > :36:25.they are two completely Yes, I wouldn't compare them,
:36:26. > :36:33.there is different skill sets You don't have to choose to support
:36:34. > :36:44.a men's team or a woman's team. I can imagine some football fans
:36:45. > :36:48.spit died on the Wall St, if it's a choice between a good men's game and
:36:49. > :36:55.a good women's game, I would go for the former -- died in the wall.
:36:56. > :36:57.Football is a game of opinions and everyone is entitled to their
:36:58. > :37:02.opinion and I know everyone who comes to watch a women's game gets
:37:03. > :37:06.full value and more. The ticket prices in the men's game have gone
:37:07. > :37:10.up and up and if you want to take your family and friends to a game it
:37:11. > :37:14.is increasingly more difficult, but you can guarantee value for money
:37:15. > :37:18.when you do come to a women's football game, whether it is
:37:19. > :37:25.international or the national teams. And there is the whistle. Back in
:37:26. > :37:30.the Netherlands, the sad truth for England is that the Dutch were very
:37:31. > :37:34.good value for their win. It wasn't Alan Knight, things did not go our
:37:35. > :37:40.way, and they are a good team. -- it wasn't our night. Tough crowd to
:37:41. > :37:43.play in front of and we are disappointed but it wasn't Alan
:37:44. > :37:46.Knight. The rude health of women's football will not be on the other
:37:47. > :37:52.minds of England's players who are as sick as a parrot tonight.
:37:53. > :37:59.We can have a quick look at the papers, the Financial Times is
:38:00. > :38:02.leading on that Bank of England and Brexit, Mark Carney warning Brexit
:38:03. > :38:11.uncertainty is choking business investment. The Times, NHS must cut
:38:12. > :38:17.waste if it wants more cash. There is a picture of someone who stole
:38:18. > :38:20.?1000 of goods from Harrods and was given a conditional discharge by a
:38:21. > :38:25.magistrate who praised her considerable talents and there will
:38:26. > :38:31.be follow up to that. Daily Mail front page, get to the airport three
:38:32. > :38:35.hours early, advice for British holiday-makers returning from
:38:36. > :38:39.Europe, to do with them imposing border controls of some kind.
:38:40. > :38:42.Before we go, today came the sad news of the death
:38:43. > :38:52.He was best known as Siegfried in All Creatures Great and Small, or -
:38:53. > :38:54.to a younger audience - as Cornelius Fudge in
:38:55. > :39:02.But it may well be his acclaimed portrayal of Winston Churchill -
:39:03. > :39:05.a part he played in five different films - that will be
:39:06. > :39:08.Here's a taste from 1981's The Wilderness Years,
:39:09. > :39:16.I don't suppose that this is the end.
:39:17. > :39:18.This is only the beginning of the reckoning.
:39:19. > :39:21.This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup.
:39:22. > :39:29.It will be proffered to us year by year unless...
:39:30. > :39:32.Unless, by a supreme recovery of martial vigour we arise again
:39:33. > :39:51.More downpour dodging to be done over the next few days, sunshine and
:39:52. > :39:53.showers again