:00:17. > :00:23.Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win.
:00:24. > :00:24.Fighting talk from President Trump over Afghanistan.
:00:25. > :00:27.But harsh words too for Pakistan, formally a US ally,
:00:28. > :00:28.for harbouring the Taliban and other terrorists.
:00:29. > :00:34.What does the Afghanistan announcement tell us about who holds
:00:35. > :00:43.We speak to the mercenary boss who had hoped for
:00:44. > :00:46.What does he make of the President's plan?
:00:47. > :00:50.More than 600 people are receiving NHS counselling
:00:51. > :00:54.We'll hear of the slow painful process towards
:00:55. > :01:16.My children did not know what fear was. She knows what fear is now. My
:01:17. > :01:24.child is priceless and their children are priceless. The
:01:25. > :01:27.government said HS three will happen.
:01:28. > :01:29.We'll ask the shadow chief secretary to the treasury
:01:30. > :01:41.if there's cross-party consensus for the scheme.
:01:42. > :01:45.That is now President Trump's battle cry for Afghanistan,
:01:46. > :01:47.a far cry from his pre-election determination that there
:01:48. > :01:51.should be an American withdrawal from the country.
:01:52. > :01:54.Now he has given The Pentagon authority to ramp up troop numbers,
:01:55. > :02:03.and greater autonomy to attack the Taliban.
:02:04. > :02:06.Also in his sights in his Fort Myer speech was Pakistan -
:02:07. > :02:08.with the president calling for Islamabad to stop providing safe
:02:09. > :02:11.Mr Trump said Pakistan had much to gain from partnering
:02:12. > :02:13.with the international effort in Afghanistan and much
:02:14. > :02:16.to lose from harbouring criminals and terrorists.
:02:17. > :02:18.Taking tough on Pakistan is not new, but taking meaningful action
:02:19. > :02:20.to prevent terrorism there has proven difficult.
:02:21. > :02:34.We'll assess what levers Trump has - and how he might make his ire felt.
:02:35. > :02:43.With General Kelly... Donald Trump has appointed more generals to his
:02:44. > :02:47.cabinet than any president since World War II. Perhaps it is
:02:48. > :02:54.unsurprising that after months of infighting he has bowed to the
:02:55. > :03:02.military stands on Afghanistan. Last night, in a dramatic reversal of his
:03:03. > :03:08.isolationist campaign rhetoric, Donald Trump committed the US to a
:03:09. > :03:13.deeper commitment in its longest ever war. We must ensure they have
:03:14. > :03:21.every weapon. Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win.
:03:22. > :03:30.Currently there are 8000 American troops in the country. Donald Trump
:03:31. > :03:36.refused to discuss numbers but it is expected that they will send an
:03:37. > :03:42.extra 4000. Despite the big talk, this is a tiny proportion of the
:03:43. > :03:49.100,000 in the country at the height of Barack Obama's so-called surge in
:03:50. > :03:55.2009. The secretary of defence has described the Taliban itself as
:03:56. > :03:58.searching. This map shows the extent of their fightback with the
:03:59. > :04:02.government now in control of less than 60% of the country. Perhaps the
:04:03. > :04:09.most striking today were the president's strong words for
:04:10. > :04:16.Pakistan. The US government has long accused Islamabad of failing to do
:04:17. > :04:21.enough. Pakistan has much to gain from partnering with our effort in
:04:22. > :04:31.Afghanistan. It has much to lose eye continuing to harbour criminals and
:04:32. > :04:36.terrorists. He did not make a specific threat but it is thought
:04:37. > :04:41.they are going to increase drone strikes, withdrawing aid, or
:04:42. > :04:46.downgrading Pakistan's status as a major non-NATO ally. I'm not sure
:04:47. > :04:50.the pressure will result in Pakistan backing off, it could well double
:04:51. > :04:56.down on it. What he did add a new element which is rather explicit
:04:57. > :05:06.threat to engage India more heavily in Afghanistan. That will get
:05:07. > :05:15.Islamabad's attention. Figures suggest there have been 428 US drone
:05:16. > :05:28.strikes since 2004. At the peak there 128. That number has fallen to
:05:29. > :05:29.just four. Pakistan would not wish to see the strikes escalate, they
:05:30. > :05:32.view them as illegal. We'll discuss what this
:05:33. > :05:34.means for the Trump presidency in a moment -
:05:35. > :05:37.but first I am joined by Carlotta Gall, who for 12 years
:05:38. > :05:39.Afghanistan and Pakistan Her book 'The Wrong Enemy:
:05:40. > :05:42.America in Afghanistan', argues that America was fighting
:05:43. > :05:45.the wrong enemy in the wrong country and should have instead focused
:05:46. > :05:51.their efforts towards Pakistan. Also with us is Associate
:05:52. > :05:53.Professor Christine Fair from Georgetown University,
:05:54. > :06:08.who served as a political officer Good evening to you both. Is this
:06:09. > :06:15.the right message and the right threat to Pakistan? Undoubtedly. For
:06:16. > :06:24.the first time we've heard some really strong torque. He's talking
:06:25. > :06:34.about them changing. We've got to see what he follows through with.
:06:35. > :06:43.Trump has talked like this for a long time. What do you think should
:06:44. > :06:51.be the first lever on Pakistan? What would hurt it? The first thing
:06:52. > :06:54.they've already done is conditionality of the huge amount of
:06:55. > :06:58.money that they give to Pakistan every year. You can condition that
:06:59. > :07:07.on performance and they've already started that. The secretary of
:07:08. > :07:22.defence held up 50 million not long ago. Then there are drone strikes,
:07:23. > :07:32.like the strike before. Essentially president Trump is building on
:07:33. > :07:39.Barack Obama's attitudes but do you agree it will have more traction
:07:40. > :07:46.this time? We are in complete agreement. I was excited to see her
:07:47. > :07:55.on this segment. We have been consistently saying the real enemy
:07:56. > :07:59.is Pakistan. I would go further. The biggest programme is the coalition
:08:00. > :08:06.support fund. This is where Pakistan gets $1 billion a year to do it as
:08:07. > :08:11.sovereign countries are supposed to do. I think we should get rid of
:08:12. > :08:16.that programme altogether. Paying Pakistan to do what countries are
:08:17. > :08:22.supposed to do actually does violence to that commitment. We
:08:23. > :08:29.should completely re-examine our foreign, military assistance,
:08:30. > :08:32.provide them no access to platforms like F-16s that allow it to continue
:08:33. > :08:43.aggression towards India. We should be willing to provide platforms.
:08:44. > :08:48.Providing them with F-16s is simply preposterous. You cut her off when
:08:49. > :08:53.she was making a really important point that we have made repeatedly,
:08:54. > :09:02.that we need to think about smart sanctions. Not only Visa denials but
:09:03. > :09:10.going after civilians, intelligence operatives, with whom we have
:09:11. > :09:16.reliable information. We are in complete agreement that the way
:09:17. > :09:24.forward is not just denying aid. We need to develop the fortitude to
:09:25. > :09:29.develop sanctions. This is going to quickly run us into the very real
:09:30. > :09:32.concern that every policymaker in Washington raises and that is the
:09:33. > :09:39.nuclear arsenal. They used to blackmail us. Coming back to you, as
:09:40. > :09:48.Trump indicated enough that he would be prepared to lose the special
:09:49. > :09:56.relationship he's got with Pakistan? Should he have gone further? He made
:09:57. > :10:02.the point that the special relationship may be there but they
:10:03. > :10:10.are killing our soldiers. He drew a line that we are amazed that America
:10:11. > :10:14.has not done. What is there to lose? A nuclear strike? He is standing up
:10:15. > :10:21.to that. I think he will call their bluff. He is leaving it to his
:10:22. > :10:27.general to decide where and when. If the signal that you're going to send
:10:28. > :10:32.fewer than 5000 more troops really going to scare the Taliban back from
:10:33. > :10:41.the areas they've been taking recently? That is not the point.
:10:42. > :10:45.They will be doing training and assisting, holding the line. The
:10:46. > :10:48.Taliban are attacking provincial capitals every month and the
:10:49. > :11:00.Americans need to go and help the Afghanistan forces. That is what
:11:01. > :11:08.they are doing. Would be unacceptable to the American people
:11:09. > :11:13.to commit more troops to Afghanistan? Is that out the
:11:14. > :11:21.question? I don't think it is out of the question. To his credit, he laid
:11:22. > :11:28.out wide the Americans need to continue caring about Afghanistan.
:11:29. > :11:34.If there is continued leadership in explaining that Afghanistan and
:11:35. > :11:38.Pakistan is the epicentre of some of the most pressing American national
:11:39. > :11:43.security concerns, Americans will go along with it. There will be
:11:44. > :11:48.bipartisan support. This may be one of the issues where we see
:11:49. > :11:49.bipartisanship. Particularly the idea of bringing in India as a more
:11:50. > :12:02.forceful partner. Back in Washington, some
:12:03. > :12:04.were wondering today what President Trump's foreign
:12:05. > :12:06.policy U-turn might say Last week Mr Trump's
:12:07. > :12:09.former aide Steve Bannon - having been fired from
:12:10. > :12:12.the White House - told the readers of his right wing Breitbart news
:12:13. > :12:15.that the Trump presidency he had Today his website was
:12:16. > :12:18.suitably critical of on the subject is Erik Prince -
:12:19. > :12:25.the founder and former boss Until recently Mr Prince had hoped
:12:26. > :12:31.the president might agree to a plan to withdraw troops from Afghanistan
:12:32. > :12:34.and leave securing peace He says he was invited
:12:35. > :12:39.to the president's Camp David summit to draw up the plans -
:12:40. > :12:42.but following the change in personnel at the White House,
:12:43. > :12:44.the invitation was withdrawn. Mr Prince joins me
:12:45. > :12:59.now from Washington. Good evening to you. You have an
:13:00. > :13:02.history of running mercenary operations. What was the plan you
:13:03. > :13:12.were putting forward to the White House? Blackwater was not a
:13:13. > :13:20.mercenary organisation but we employed Americans serving abroad. I
:13:21. > :13:28.wrote an op-ed that said how we could end the war. I spoke about the
:13:29. > :13:36.need for a Viceroy. It was not to rule Afghanistan. It is to be one
:13:37. > :13:42.leader that would coordinate it. We had the Department of defence and
:13:43. > :13:50.the CAA in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There has been no unity of command.
:13:51. > :13:55.It has been very chaotic. That is why we have spent close to $1
:13:56. > :14:00.trillion in Afghanistan alone. This year, they will consume more than
:14:01. > :14:13.the UK defence budget just in Afghanistan. We are not winning. You
:14:14. > :14:24.concede that it is a loaded term. Was this going to be yourself?
:14:25. > :14:33.Absolutely not. It should be a senior US official, someone with
:14:34. > :14:41.business experience. We've been going round and round for 16 years.
:14:42. > :14:50.We are figuring out a way to tie this off. You might say president
:14:51. > :14:56.Trump, having listened to the generals around him, has shown a
:14:57. > :15:00.certain maturity today in actually doffing his to their views. Is that
:15:01. > :15:10.a mistake? The president campaigned against
:15:11. > :15:15.this notion and resisted it for the first seven months of his
:15:16. > :15:18.presidency. The Pentagon kept coming back to him with just only the
:15:19. > :15:23.option of more troops and more money as we have been doing for the past
:15:24. > :15:29.16 years and it has not worked. I do not think the policy will last long.
:15:30. > :15:32.Even the rules of engagement, the Taliban has had three open-air
:15:33. > :15:39.victory parades in the last three months. That does not require any
:15:40. > :15:42.more troops from the Pentagon, it requires coordination and speed and
:15:43. > :15:48.innovation from the Pentagon to get after them. The Pentagon has become
:15:49. > :15:56.so much of the bureaucracy it cannot operate at the speed of the Taliban.
:15:57. > :16:02.You are saying that the people employed out with the Pentagon and
:16:03. > :16:08.US military would be able to use different methods, such as the
:16:09. > :16:16.people you are engaged with do? Let me clarify, this needs to be a true
:16:17. > :16:19.Afghan solution. The Afghans continually resist a foreign
:16:20. > :16:27.occupation force which they've had for 16 years. My concept is to
:16:28. > :16:33.employ long-term contract is that would attach to each battalion, live
:16:34. > :16:37.and train with them, but with them and if necessary fight side-by-side
:16:38. > :16:40.with them. A few foreign professionals to provide structural
:16:41. > :16:45.support for each battalion combined with an air support and you have a
:16:46. > :16:52.very different and higher performing Afghan army. In the days after
:16:53. > :16:58.September 11 you 100 CIA officers and a devastated the Taliban. They
:16:59. > :17:02.can be defeated. You caught the attention of the president and a
:17:03. > :17:05.Steve Bannon and you're now close to Steve Bannon. He has said over the
:17:06. > :17:13.weekend that the Donald Trump presidency that he fought for is
:17:14. > :17:19.over. Do you agree? The president has a lot of different voices in his
:17:20. > :17:23.ears. I believe the President finally caved on this issue with
:17:24. > :17:27.going back to the same plan for the Pentagon really because of the
:17:28. > :17:32.fiasco in Charlottesville, he felt had not politically and he went with
:17:33. > :17:35.it. I do not think it is a decision he will stay with for long. He needs
:17:36. > :17:40.to find a way to do this because of the mid-term elections and the next
:17:41. > :17:46.election the people who voted for him by the people sending their sons
:17:47. > :17:50.and daughters. So you do not think he will stick with this plan for
:17:51. > :17:58.long, due think there is still hope for your plan? What I layout is
:17:59. > :18:07.basic soldiering. It is how the East India company operated. Not trying
:18:08. > :18:09.to develop a colonial force, this is an Afghan solution, professional
:18:10. > :18:14.soldiers attached to the Afghan army. By even the United Nations
:18:15. > :18:20.definition that does not make them mercenaries. Under Afghan rules of
:18:21. > :18:26.engagement and the code of military Justice, it is a much cheaper and
:18:27. > :18:32.much smaller footprint way and proven to be effective over the
:18:33. > :18:35.centuries. To stand on its own against these terrorist
:18:36. > :18:36.organisations resident in Afghanistan. Thank you for joining
:18:37. > :18:36.us. It's little more than two months
:18:37. > :18:39.since the Grenfell disaster, and for many involved,
:18:40. > :18:41.residents, others in the neighbourhood who watched
:18:42. > :18:42.the horror unfold, volunteers, nurses, firefighters,
:18:43. > :18:44.the imprint of that traumatic day will always be with them,
:18:45. > :18:47.and hard to cope with. Only yesterday the head of
:18:48. > :18:54.the London Fire Brigade Dany Cotton revealed she is receiving
:18:55. > :18:56.counselling following the blaze. The
:18:57. > :18:59.NHS has knocked on two and a half thousand doors in Kensington
:19:00. > :19:01.and Chelsea to enquire about mental health and offer
:19:02. > :19:03.advice and counselling. So far six hundred people -
:19:04. > :19:06.one hundred of them children - have been referred for further
:19:07. > :19:08.treatment. The symptoms are many and varied,
:19:09. > :19:10.including guilt that they survived Our special correspondent
:19:11. > :19:17.Katie Razzall has gone back to Grenfell to see how
:19:18. > :19:26.people are coping. You just keep on getting
:19:27. > :19:28.flashbacks to, obviously, the fire and nightmares
:19:29. > :19:31.and sleep talking. This has been the biggest push
:19:32. > :19:39.on mental health in the UK there has ever been in response to one
:19:40. > :19:44.of these events. We had nowhere else
:19:45. > :19:50.to go but look at it. Theresa Griffin has lived
:19:51. > :19:59.beside Grenfell Tower We used to sunbathe on the top
:20:00. > :20:06.of it, years and years ago. They used to have no
:20:07. > :20:10.locks on it then. I was 16 and everyone
:20:11. > :20:13.used to go up there. Yes, that tree wasn't there,
:20:14. > :20:18.there wasn't so much, In this close-knit community it
:20:19. > :20:28.isn't just survivors of the fire Local residents like Theresa
:20:29. > :20:33.watched, powerless to I could see, there was two people
:20:34. > :20:41.there that stood out for me. There was a friend
:20:42. > :20:43.of mine, Tony Disson. And he was talking to
:20:44. > :20:50.people out the window. And there was a woman over
:20:51. > :20:58.in the corner and she just shouted She didn't care about herself,
:20:59. > :21:02.she just wanted her kids, I can't find any
:21:03. > :21:09.answers in my faith. The church doesn't give me any
:21:10. > :21:12.solace at all, which is the first time in my life that I've never got
:21:13. > :21:17.any answer from myself, for myself. In this vicinity there are whole
:21:18. > :21:21.families who are traumatised. While younger children can become
:21:22. > :21:23.withdrawn and fearful, older ones react to
:21:24. > :21:27.tragedy more like adults. I have to take my daughter
:21:28. > :21:29.to bed at night. I didn't have to do
:21:30. > :21:35.that when she was six. And this fear that she has
:21:36. > :21:37.of losing, you know, And a child shouldn't
:21:38. > :21:43.feel guilt like that. 14 years of age, you know,
:21:44. > :21:45.she wasn't in the fire, so she feels this terrible
:21:46. > :21:47.weight on her. She lost two really
:21:48. > :21:50.quite close friends. My daughter didn't know what fear
:21:51. > :21:57.was in the true sense of the word. And that you don't always
:21:58. > :22:04.go to bed and get up. And it's something that didn't need
:22:05. > :22:07.to happen, that's the killer, And it's down to a pound note,
:22:08. > :22:11.and that's heartbreaking. My child is priceless,
:22:12. > :22:25.and their children were priceless. Normally major incidents involve
:22:26. > :22:27.people from all over This is a situation where
:22:28. > :22:33.people are in one place. So you've got a big
:22:34. > :22:36.concentration of problems. But also people are networked
:22:37. > :22:40.together so you can both be traumatised yourself and also
:22:41. > :22:43.bereaved, lost friends, and so that makes for a very
:22:44. > :22:45.complicated situation that kind NHS mental health outreach workers
:22:46. > :22:53.have knocked on 2200 This is the UK's largest ever
:22:54. > :23:00.mental health response So far 600 people have been referred
:23:01. > :23:08.for further treatment This woman's flat
:23:09. > :23:28.faces Grenfell Tower. But at the beginning I wasn't
:23:29. > :23:34.able to sleep at all. I hadn't slept for three nights
:23:35. > :23:37.following the incident. Nightmares and sleeplessness
:23:38. > :23:40.are a normal reaction to a trauma. If they endure it can be a sign
:23:41. > :23:44.of psychological problems. Luckily for this woman,
:23:45. > :23:52.her insomnia disappeared. But others haven't
:23:53. > :23:55.been so fortunate. People come and they're
:23:56. > :23:58.having sleep problems. In children there is
:23:59. > :24:01.a lot of bedwetting. People have a heightened
:24:02. > :24:05.state of anxiety. They don't want to
:24:06. > :24:07.talk and communicate. And you can see both ends
:24:08. > :24:10.of the scale in one person You know, we have seen
:24:11. > :24:15.a range of emotions. If I had one wish it would be
:24:16. > :24:17.that people would be But I know that is
:24:18. > :24:21.proving very difficult. But that would be very helpful
:24:22. > :24:23.because one of the problems of you being traumatised
:24:24. > :24:26.is you don't feel safe. And trying to get that safety
:24:27. > :24:32.feeling back is very important. 155 of Grenfell Tower's households
:24:33. > :24:34.are still in emergency Like Paul who lived on the sixth
:24:35. > :24:42.floor of Grenfell and woke up in his smoke-filled flat
:24:43. > :24:46.to the sound of screaming. He has been in this hotel since
:24:47. > :24:50.the fire and says he can't be alone. Friends, NHS clinicians
:24:51. > :24:52.and even his favourite football club Arsenal have been offering
:24:53. > :24:57.support and counselling. It has not got any better
:24:58. > :24:59.at the moment, it has For me I feel it is getting
:25:00. > :25:08.a little bit worse. For me, maybe over time it might go
:25:09. > :25:13.down a bit more with the medication, the sleeping tablets and my friends
:25:14. > :25:18.being around me constantly. I think for me personally it was how
:25:19. > :25:21.I got out of the building, what I saw coming out
:25:22. > :25:24.of that building. The fact that eventually
:25:25. > :25:31.when I did get out, how lucky And I know quite a few people that
:25:32. > :25:37.have obviously lost their lives, people who were very,
:25:38. > :25:39.very close, I would see them Raymond Barnard, who
:25:40. > :25:46.was on the 23rd floor. He watched me grow up,
:25:47. > :25:49.held me when I was a little kid. And he was one of the first
:25:50. > :25:52.people I thought of, that I was praying that they've
:25:53. > :25:54.got out alive. But he was one of the first people
:25:55. > :25:57.to be confirmed dead. I go and see my mental health sort
:25:58. > :26:03.of nurse at least once or twice. But she calls me up
:26:04. > :26:06.on a day-to-day basis to check up And I have another mental
:26:07. > :26:09.health support worker. Paul has been offered a temporary
:26:10. > :26:12.flat, but he has been clear that he won't move in until the fire
:26:13. > :26:15.brigade has checked it, After Grenfell he doesn't trust
:26:16. > :26:19.the housing association's fire Even in this building here I have
:26:20. > :26:25.asked quite a few times what is the fire procedure
:26:26. > :26:28.for the building, for this sort And obviously the room I'm in now
:26:29. > :26:35.as well, which is good for me, I feel a bit more safe,
:26:36. > :26:38.is the fact that I'm literally one It's a little over two
:26:39. > :26:44.months since the fire. A very short time for a community
:26:45. > :26:47.to come to terms with All our community wants
:26:48. > :26:53.to do is get the answers It's not dwindling onto
:26:54. > :26:59.it or wanting to hold I just want to get over
:27:00. > :27:05.it and I want to feel, I want to wake up in the morning
:27:06. > :27:09.and like where I used to live. For now though, respite
:27:10. > :27:12.comes in small gestures. I go over every day,
:27:13. > :27:16.I light the candles at night time. At the place where
:27:17. > :27:18.all the tributes are? Yes, where all the tributes
:27:19. > :27:21.are and the flowers. I put fresh water in
:27:22. > :27:23.the flowers, trim back I just feel a little
:27:24. > :27:27.bit better at the end They haven't got
:27:28. > :27:53.their kids any more. And if you or anyone
:27:54. > :27:58.you know are affected by any of the issues raised in her film
:27:59. > :28:01.then there is a dedicated Grenfell So how long does it take to recover
:28:02. > :28:16.from something like this? Tony Thompson was a Superintendent
:28:17. > :28:20.with the British Transport Police and was one of the police officers
:28:21. > :28:23.who dealt with the Paddington Rail crash in October 1999 in which 31
:28:24. > :28:26.people died and more He is currently chair
:28:27. > :28:41.of the Emergency Planning Society, which advises government
:28:42. > :28:53.on disasters such as Grenfell, You were there on that dreadful day
:28:54. > :28:57.in 1999. When you hear the voices in that film about Grenfell Tower and
:28:58. > :29:02.the range of the trauma that people are suffering, doesn't resonate with
:29:03. > :29:08.you? Absolutely. We heard some people saying gradually coming to
:29:09. > :29:12.terms with it. It is a long process, that will go on for many months and
:29:13. > :29:20.years and different people will deal with it in different ways. Your
:29:21. > :29:25.involvement at the epicentre of that crash, he went to the carriages, you
:29:26. > :29:32.stayed for 11 days. Did that have a long-term effect on you?
:29:33. > :29:39.Unfortunately my experience of rail crashes goes back to the Clapham
:29:40. > :29:48.crash on the 12th of December, 1988, and I remember that as vividly as I
:29:49. > :29:53.do the Ladbroke Grove crash. You cope with it in different ways but
:29:54. > :30:00.it never goes away. Some will cope with it better than others but this
:30:01. > :30:03.is a long process. In your experience, how important is it for
:30:04. > :30:08.people to receive help as soon as possible? To have their mental state
:30:09. > :30:14.attended to as soon as possible rather than letting them beyond
:30:15. > :30:20.their own virtue long. -- for too long. The approach we take is, the
:30:21. > :30:23.first few weeks, we try to provide people with what we call practical
:30:24. > :30:31.and emotional support. By the time we get to 12 weeks, some people will
:30:32. > :30:35.make progress, others may need counselling in the true sense and
:30:36. > :30:39.clearly, the NHS and others are trying to identify people at risk.
:30:40. > :30:44.It is quite normal in the first days and weeks to suffer from nightmares,
:30:45. > :30:51.flashbacks, you've got that awful shell of a tower as a stark
:30:52. > :30:56.reminder. I've been in the area a number of times and wherever you
:30:57. > :31:06.look it is there. A lot of other disasters. Normally we remove the
:31:07. > :31:10.wreckage. With Grenfell it will be there quite some time before it is
:31:11. > :31:15.ultimately removed. Do you think there is a difference between people
:31:16. > :31:24.having individual tragedies, the experience of their own, and
:31:25. > :31:31.tragedies like Paddington, Grenfell. Is it a different way of dealing
:31:32. > :31:44.with things? You have people about you. Does that reinforce it? What is
:31:45. > :31:52.the difference in approach? Well, absolutely. If you are suffering on
:31:53. > :31:59.your own, death is a death. If you're part of a wider tragedy, you
:32:00. > :32:07.can share your concerns, if it is your own personal tragedy, you share
:32:08. > :32:15.it with your immediate family. There are advantages and disadvantages to
:32:16. > :32:20.both. I lost a close person through murder. I know what it is like. It
:32:21. > :32:28.does not go away. You learn to cope with it better in small moments. I
:32:29. > :32:35.wondered if you could tell me, because of your experience, what
:32:36. > :32:42.message do you have? For a lot of people it will get better over time.
:32:43. > :32:51.You will never forget the people who lost their lives. Slowly, slowly, it
:32:52. > :32:58.may be help from friends. Gradually, it should get better. It will be
:32:59. > :33:09.more challenging for some people. I'm talking about it getting better
:33:10. > :33:14.for years. The key is to talk. Thank you so much.
:33:15. > :33:16.Ahead of a Northern Powerhouse summit in Leeds tomorrow,
:33:17. > :33:18.George Osborne, in a mischievous flourish, ended his opinion piece
:33:19. > :33:21.in today's FT by saying that Theresa May could "relaunch her
:33:22. > :33:23.premiership" this autumn by backing Northern Powerhouse Rail
:33:24. > :33:27.which would plug the Northern cities into HS2, making it
:33:28. > :33:47.The government responded by saying that they would go ahead with it.
:33:48. > :34:02.How does Labour respond? Does Labour back the idea of a track which goes
:34:03. > :34:19.from Liverpool- Hull? We do. It is part of decentralisation. For too
:34:20. > :34:27.long we've had a need to chill out. You're giving no help to a lot of
:34:28. > :34:41.the smaller communities. They want help for retraining. That is much
:34:42. > :34:49.more valuable. That assumes that they are mutually exclusive. There's
:34:50. > :35:07.no reason why you cannot do both. It could boost the Northern economy. It
:35:08. > :35:13.has a knock-on effect. We've set aside ?25 billion for investment.
:35:14. > :35:25.These things cannot be taken as individual items. You've got ?25
:35:26. > :35:33.billion for education plans. What about the electrification of the
:35:34. > :35:39.Transpennine Express to mark the interesting thing, the government
:35:40. > :35:53.pulling away from that upset the apple cart. There needs to be a
:35:54. > :36:01.proactive plan for investment in the infrastructure. This is no use.
:36:02. > :36:06.Especially when it is direct from London. London and the government
:36:07. > :36:12.have got to chill out in regard to this control over everything that
:36:13. > :36:16.goes on. This is the way forward and that is what the leaders meeting in
:36:17. > :36:30.Leeds will be sending a message about. There is no point in doing
:36:31. > :36:37.this unless there are Spurs which will bring people in Newcastle into
:36:38. > :36:43.economic regeneration and that won't help them. Of course but this is a
:36:44. > :36:54.progressive process. Across the area from Liverpool- Hull, you're talking
:36:55. > :37:03.about 10 million people across that corridor, not taking into account
:37:04. > :37:14.Cheshire, Lancashire. It is the opportunity for them all to share in
:37:15. > :37:18.the prosperity. You are happy to subscribe to something that will be
:37:19. > :37:23.seen as a Tory success? It's not a question of being a Tory success. It
:37:24. > :37:27.has been on the cards for years and I will not start getting partisan if
:37:28. > :37:28.this will be beneficial for communities across the North, bring
:37:29. > :37:32.it on. Thank you. Literary festivals occasionally -
:37:33. > :37:33.almost inadvertently - And that's exactly what
:37:34. > :37:36.happened at Edinburgh when the Booker Prize winning writer
:37:37. > :37:39.Zadie Smith revealed that she limits the time her seven year old daughter
:37:40. > :37:42.can spend in front of the mirror each day to 15 minutes,
:37:43. > :37:47.after explaining to her that she was Whether she was actually applying
:37:48. > :37:50.make up the whole time Zadie Smith didn't make clear, but she alluded
:37:51. > :37:53.to the huge YouTube industry even for pre-teens, with demonstrations
:37:54. > :37:55.of how to contour and apply strobe An endeavour that, she said,
:37:56. > :37:59.can take an hour and a half. So does make-up imprison young women
:38:00. > :38:02.or can it empower them? Claire Coleman is a journalist
:38:03. > :38:06.and make-up brand consultant. Madeleine Spencer is beauty editor
:38:07. > :38:23.of InBeauty magazine. Good evening to you both. Let's deal
:38:24. > :38:28.first of all the children. The idea. I watched these YouTube videos of
:38:29. > :38:36.four -year-olds doing contouring. Where does this come from? It comes
:38:37. > :38:40.from the way that from a younger and younger age children are exposed to
:38:41. > :38:52.much more of these influences that show them their idols. It seems to
:38:53. > :39:01.be a natural progression. I don't think they need to know how to
:39:02. > :39:07.contour. They don't need to know but the application of make-up can be
:39:08. > :39:15.done, and I wanted to know exactly how Kylie Minogue did her make up. I
:39:16. > :39:22.think it is absurd but the idea of wanting to emulate something is
:39:23. > :39:27.totally ingrained. But the idea that unless you do this it will not be
:39:28. > :39:33.acceptable, a lot of seven-year-olds actually do not have a complete
:39:34. > :39:41.sense of their own physicality, they don't need it to know how pretty
:39:42. > :39:46.they could be! It is up to the parents. I don't think limiting that
:39:47. > :39:54.time does that. But they need to say you have plenty of other attributes
:39:55. > :39:58.other than the way that you look. It worries me. We need to take a stand
:39:59. > :40:02.on this sort of thing. We're going to have so much time where we worry
:40:03. > :40:07.about how we look and concern ourselves. We are looking at
:40:08. > :40:26.worrying about how people perceive us. To concern ourselves, it is
:40:27. > :40:30.absolutely wrong. Essentially, if somebody wants to spend an hour and
:40:31. > :40:35.a half in front of the mirror, it doesn't mean they are stupid, it
:40:36. > :40:45.just means that aspect of their life is important to them. Absolutely
:40:46. > :40:51.not. The idea that we have this at one end of the spectrum is something
:40:52. > :40:54.we need to get over. As a feminist I'm never going to dictate to any
:40:55. > :41:05.woman how we should be spending our time. What we are talking about is a
:41:06. > :41:13.wider societal issue where women are judged if they are not making an
:41:14. > :41:20.effort. Men have a similar pressure. It is worse for women because they
:41:21. > :41:26.have pressured to look a certain way. But the idea that looking a
:41:27. > :41:32.certain way is just for women I don't think is true. There's an
:41:33. > :41:39.expectation to look certain way. It is across the board. As a society
:41:40. > :41:50.what do we expect of people? Are we too concerned with how we look? It
:41:51. > :42:02.is motivation. For somebody who enjoys make up, that is as much
:42:03. > :42:06.pleasure as painting canvas. I agree that the ritual of make-up is
:42:07. > :42:10.important to them but I rail against the idea that men and women are
:42:11. > :42:11.judged on the same way. Women are judged much more harshly. Thank you
:42:12. > :42:15.so much. That is it for tonight. Before we go, we've been
:42:16. > :42:17.marking Proms season Tonight we have trumpeter
:42:18. > :42:20.Christian Scott, with his take on the track Celia by jazz legend
:42:21. > :44:10.Charles Mingus. Good evening. A weather front will
:44:11. > :44:12.bring heavy rain through the night across Scotland and still be
:44:13. > :44:13.lingering first thing tomorrow