24/08/2017

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:00:07. > :00:07.For years the Government believed many international students

:00:08. > :00:13.Today we find out almost none of them do.

:00:14. > :00:18.So what credibility should we give the migration statistics?

:00:19. > :00:20.This new data undermines a lot of what we thought

:00:21. > :00:25.we knew about how many people come to live here.

:00:26. > :00:31.The hottest topic in British politics

:00:32. > :00:34.turns out to be the area in which we've been worst informed.

:00:35. > :00:36.We'll ask a leading Brexiteer and a prominent Remainer,

:00:37. > :00:38.if Government policy has long been based on dodgy data.

:00:39. > :00:43.We've been to the border between Norway and Sweden.

:00:44. > :00:45.Ministers here think it's a model for a future frictionless border

:00:46. > :00:47.between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

:00:48. > :01:01.What you think about the customs here? I think it is completely clap,

:01:02. > :01:14.it takes a long time, it is not easy. -- pony.

:01:15. > :01:16.Hundreds of thousands of teenagers opened their GCSE

:01:17. > :01:19.Do you know what a Grade 4 in maths actually means?

:01:20. > :01:23.And what's the difference between a "good pass"

:01:24. > :01:26.We'll debate the merits of the new marking system.

:01:27. > :01:28.And, shameless cash grab, or the greatest

:01:29. > :01:30.UFC Champion Conor McGregor, and undefeated boxer

:01:31. > :01:34.On the surface today's immigration figures look

:01:35. > :01:38.Net migration has fallen to the lowest level for three years

:01:39. > :01:41.after a surge in the number of EU nationals leaving the UK

:01:42. > :01:44.Net migration, the difference between those entering

:01:45. > :01:47.fell 81,000 to 246,000 in the year to March 2017.

:01:48. > :01:54.from hitting her target to reduce net migration

:01:55. > :01:58.But the figures also reveal that the problem of non EU migrants

:01:59. > :02:01.overstaying their visas is simply not as big an issue

:02:02. > :02:08.Far, far fewer international students end up overstaying

:02:09. > :02:13.their visas than the Home Office has always claimed.

:02:14. > :02:26.Here's our Policy Editor, Chris Cook.

:02:27. > :02:34.VOICEOVER: As Home Secretary, Theresa May picked a fight with

:02:35. > :02:38.universities, in her determination to get net migration down to under

:02:39. > :02:42.100,000 a year, students from outside the EU were a prime target.

:02:43. > :02:48.We welcome students coming to study, but the fact is, too many of them

:02:49. > :02:53.are not returning home as soon as their visa runs out. If they have a

:02:54. > :03:00.graduate job, that is fine, if not, they must return home. So I don't

:03:01. > :03:07.care what university lobbyists say, the rules must be enforced.

:03:08. > :03:12.Students, yes, overstays, no. Overstay as were a critical issue to

:03:13. > :03:15.her, how many of them were there? In migration, the most important data

:03:16. > :03:20.source is the International passenger survey, how we monitor net

:03:21. > :03:24.migration targets. It stations people at ports and airports with

:03:25. > :03:27.clipboard, asking travellers about their duration of stay in Britain

:03:28. > :03:33.and why they came. It is the source of estimates in migration into the

:03:34. > :03:36.country and emigration out of date. When Theresa May gave her speech,

:03:37. > :03:43.the latest figures showed an hundred and 31,009 EU students arriving, but

:03:44. > :03:50.only 38,000 leaving. A gap of 93,000 people. Lots of whom might be

:03:51. > :03:54.overstayers. There was a waiting reason to doubt these numbers, they

:03:55. > :03:58.did not match the sources of data we have, for example, the immigration

:03:59. > :04:03.accords universities have two hold about former students. -- records.

:04:04. > :04:07.These former students also were not showing up in the national Insurance

:04:08. > :04:10.database. -- have to. And they did not show up in surveys like the

:04:11. > :04:15.labour Force survey, where were they? Now we have quite a good

:04:16. > :04:19.answer, new border checks data suggests the international passenger

:04:20. > :04:22.survey is simply not very good. The reliability of the international

:04:23. > :04:27.passenger survey depends upon whether people and set accurately to

:04:28. > :04:31.questions on why are you coming here and do you intend to stay for longer

:04:32. > :04:35.than one-year? For many people, especially students, the answers may

:04:36. > :04:39.not be correct, or indeed, may not be known to the person at the time

:04:40. > :04:49.they are asked the question. The new data shows up how bad IPS has been,

:04:50. > :04:51.we know that 181,000 student Visas expired, and 176,000 were known to

:04:52. > :04:59.have left. The number of overstayers, at most, 4600, 2.6%. A

:05:00. > :05:01.review of student migration has now been commissioned from the

:05:02. > :05:07.Independent migration advisory committee. Clearly, the IPS has been

:05:08. > :05:13.considered as the best possible tool that we have got for determining

:05:14. > :05:16.this. I have argued for a long time, indeed before the migration advisory

:05:17. > :05:21.committee was established, that we needed something that was

:05:22. > :05:27.independent of government, that was verifiable in terms of the

:05:28. > :05:30.evidential base. There was more to the students squeeze than

:05:31. > :05:35.overstaying, she wanted fewer students staying on legitimately,

:05:36. > :05:43.too, but overstayers got outsized importance and so this data matters

:05:44. > :05:45.politically. Today's announcements tell us that government has really

:05:46. > :05:50.listened to the university sector, we very strongly welcome the way in

:05:51. > :05:52.which they are now trying to provide an evidence -based account of the

:05:53. > :05:59.role of international students, and we think what that will allow us to

:06:00. > :06:02.do is create a policy in cooperation with government, especially

:06:03. > :06:05.important after Brexit. Some people have suggested the right response to

:06:06. > :06:09.the student migration data problem is to remove students from the

:06:10. > :06:15.migration target, that does not really make sense. This student data

:06:16. > :06:19.problem, illustrates that one of two things is write about the remaining

:06:20. > :06:23.international passenger survey: if it is making catastrophic errors

:06:24. > :06:26.about the total number of immigration into Britain or there

:06:27. > :06:31.are other huge offsetting errors in other parts of the survey. The

:06:32. > :06:36.passenger survey makes for a pretty lousy migration measure, it should

:06:37. > :06:39.be replaced, the key question today, why the Home Office and Theresa May

:06:40. > :06:45.put so much weight on it for so long.

:06:46. > :06:50.So, if entire chunks of government policy have been crafted around

:06:51. > :06:52.migration figures which are simply inaccurate, as they appear to be,

:06:53. > :06:55.what are the wider ramifications for immigration targets and Brexit?

:06:56. > :06:58.And why has the Home Office, as overseen by Theresa May for 6

:06:59. > :07:00.years, used data that may have painted a misleading picture?

:07:01. > :07:03.Joining me now is the Labour MP and spokesperson for Open Britain

:07:04. > :07:05.that is campaigning against a so called hard-Brexit,

:07:06. > :07:13.and the Tory MP and prominent Leaver,

:07:14. > :07:25.Good evening, both of you, Peter, you are in a good mood... I will try

:07:26. > :07:29.not to... I will use facts, if I may, we will come to the bigger

:07:30. > :07:33.picture in a moment, as the film showed, the problem of non-EU

:07:34. > :07:40.migrants overstaying in the UK seems to have been widely overstated. What

:07:41. > :07:41.I want to understand is, how are we in a position where the Home Office

:07:42. > :07:50.has been using bogus data? I don't think you can say that,

:07:51. > :07:53.there is an enquiry to... They have called an enquiry, the fact that

:07:54. > :07:57.they have done that would point to a problem. It is good to look at it

:07:58. > :08:01.but today's... There must be a problem. We shall see if there is a

:08:02. > :08:05.problem, don't upset me, now(!)... The real point today about the

:08:06. > :08:11.figures is we have seen a huge drop in net migration by 80,000, lowest

:08:12. > :08:16.for three years. Still a lot... I'm going to come to that point, I made

:08:17. > :08:19.that clear, could you address my question, we are aware of the fact

:08:20. > :08:24.there will be an enquiry, you have said that, is it not concerning

:08:25. > :08:26.two-year and to the rest of the UK, that there has been misleading data

:08:27. > :08:30.that has been coming through the Home Office, a big part of Theresa

:08:31. > :08:34.May's standing up and talking to people about these figures has been,

:08:35. > :08:38.that there is an issue, especially with students, they were used

:08:39. > :08:44.regularly, overstaying Visas, we now know it is tiny, the figure is tiny.

:08:45. > :08:48.I don't know where you are saying everyone is talking about students,

:08:49. > :08:54.my constituents were not talking about students... Your leader was.

:08:55. > :08:59.The issue in the country, however much the BBC wants to move away from

:09:00. > :09:04.this, it is a good news story... You don't seem to be able to answer my

:09:05. > :09:07.question, are you not concerned... I have never been concerned about

:09:08. > :09:10.students coming to this country, I cannot be concerned about things

:09:11. > :09:14.that I have never been concerned about. Your leader has been, let me

:09:15. > :09:19.put a different question to you, Home Secretary for six years, good

:09:20. > :09:26.reputation in that job, and... You does. That is not my own opinion,

:09:27. > :09:30.I'm... I'm not here to have views, you are here to answer questions,

:09:31. > :09:33.and I'm trying to ask these questions... These figures,

:09:34. > :09:45.imposition of review, do they not show that Theresa May, looking --

:09:46. > :09:47.she has been looked at in a damaging light, "strong and stable" Home

:09:48. > :09:51.Secretary. I don't know where you got the idea that there was a big

:09:52. > :09:55.issue about student numbers, it was not there in the country, I have

:09:56. > :09:58.been relaxed about it, it is right they are included in the figures

:09:59. > :10:02.because that is how... A figure that has now been shown to be

:10:03. > :10:10.misleading... Which figure has been misleading? Which particular figure?

:10:11. > :10:13.Tell me which particular figure. I will tell you... Because, your

:10:14. > :10:16.party, your government, and some of the press that support you have been

:10:17. > :10:21.saying for many years that about 100,000 people were unwelcome,

:10:22. > :10:26.overstaying, should not be here, and a problem. That has been exposed as

:10:27. > :10:30.an utter falsity, as has much of the campaign that you and others were

:10:31. > :10:33.part of to leave the European Union, you should be ashamed and very

:10:34. > :10:36.worried that Theresa May was so closely associated to something that

:10:37. > :10:43.has been proven to be utter rubbish. -- falsehood. That is the point,

:10:44. > :10:45.what you say? I never campaigned in a disgraceful way about student

:10:46. > :10:49.numbers because I have been very relaxed about the student situation,

:10:50. > :10:53.what the problem has been is free movement from the European Union,

:10:54. > :10:57.that has been the issue and today we have seen in courage in signs about

:10:58. > :11:01.a number Rafael in the number of people. You don't want to address

:11:02. > :11:04.that fact but I will bring kneel onto it, Peter Bone is in a

:11:05. > :11:07.celebratory mood, the majority of the country voted to leave the

:11:08. > :11:11.European Union, these figures would say that this is the right direction

:11:12. > :11:17.of travel, surely you see today as a bit of a Democratic victory for

:11:18. > :11:18.those people? I'm not sure what the celebration is for, what Brexit is

:11:19. > :11:30.showing us... Macro Brexodus. Yes, Brexodus, it is

:11:31. > :11:35.damaging, making a contribution to the country, they are leaving...

:11:36. > :11:40.Making a contribution... I want our economy to be the best in the world,

:11:41. > :11:43.more people to contribute to... And I want them to be confident that

:11:44. > :11:49.they can come here. Where British people can be trained and fill

:11:50. > :11:52.roles, absolutely support that. But the simple truth is, in the

:11:53. > :11:56.construction sector, in the leisure sector, in the food and farming

:11:57. > :12:03.sector, there are massive vacancies. Did you or did you not to eat today,

:12:04. > :12:15.kneel, that anti-"Brexit" campaigners are the real patriots...

:12:16. > :12:19.-- tweet. It is not patriotic for them to take jobs away from people

:12:20. > :12:22.there is a finite amount of jobs. You assume that they are taking jobs

:12:23. > :12:26.away from people, I disagree, look at the food and drink Federation

:12:27. > :12:29.report, it shows that one third of their members are worried about

:12:30. > :12:34.having to close as a result of not having British workers to fill...

:12:35. > :12:38.Why don't they pay better, maybe they will get British workers,

:12:39. > :12:42.market forces. The reason I made this Twitter post about being a

:12:43. > :12:46.patriot, I am proud that people want to come to this country to live,

:12:47. > :12:50.study, work, contribute, I'm proud of the contribution they have made

:12:51. > :12:54.to the constituency. I'm very worried about the people leaving and

:12:55. > :12:57.the message they are sending. Because that is the other side of

:12:58. > :13:01.this, to think these are people leaving jobs that will be filled by

:13:02. > :13:05.British people is a mistake, some of them take jobs that will not be

:13:06. > :13:17.replaced. You cannot prove that, that is your take on it. Making

:13:18. > :13:22.Brexodus happen, you are an unpatriotic man. He's entitled to

:13:23. > :13:26.his opinion, I have been called a lot of things by the extreme left,

:13:27. > :13:34.just another one today... Extreme left, if he is the extreme left,

:13:35. > :13:37.what are you? I'm the centre ground. Great democratic debate, the EU

:13:38. > :13:41.referendum, it was wonderful, and the result at the end was to say

:13:42. > :13:44.that would come out of the UN we want to see immigration reduced.

:13:45. > :13:49.That is what is beginning to happen. We asked LA long way off. You got to

:13:50. > :13:54.the figures in the end, even if you ended up not answering my question.

:13:55. > :13:59.Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us.

:14:00. > :14:01.One of the most acute challenges of Brexit

:14:02. > :14:06.specifically regarding our large land border with the EU in Ireland.

:14:07. > :14:08.There's already been much hand wringing from politicians about how

:14:09. > :14:11.to solve that particular problem and there's plenty more to come

:14:12. > :14:14.Well, one solution that has been floated by the Brexit

:14:15. > :14:16.Secretary David Davis is to mimic the border

:14:17. > :14:18.situation between the EU's Sweden, and Norway,

:14:19. > :14:22.But is it really the holy gail of a frictionless 'soft' border?

:14:23. > :14:25.And a warning, there is some strong language

:14:26. > :14:43.Stretching across 1,000 miles, the border between Sweden and Norway is

:14:44. > :14:52.the largest frontier of the EU and this bridge is by far the busiest

:14:53. > :14:57.crossing. It's said to be the most technologically advanced border in

:14:58. > :15:00.the world and is a model for the frictionless customs border between

:15:01. > :15:04.northern and southern Ireland that politicians so desperately want. An

:15:05. > :15:08.example of how that might be done, the committee will look at the

:15:09. > :15:14.Norway Sweden border where you have, they're both in the sing Market but

:15:15. > :15:18.they straddle the customs union. It's a very open border. How

:15:19. > :15:24.frictionless is it. What do you think about the customs? It takes a

:15:25. > :15:32.long time. It's not necessary. What does it mean for the areas around

:15:33. > :15:34.the border? We have a lot of the people employed, taking care of

:15:35. > :15:37.administrations made up by this border of course. It's an industry

:15:38. > :15:52.of bureaucracy then? Yes, exactly. In 1995, Sweden joined the EU but

:15:53. > :15:59.Norway didn't. Although Norway is in she thinkle and the single market,

:16:00. > :16:04.it's not in the customs union. And that means different laws and taxes

:16:05. > :16:09.on different imports and exports with inevitable problems. There's no

:16:10. > :16:14.import tax on garlic in Norway but there is import tax on garlic in the

:16:15. > :16:18.EU. So if I was in Norway and I decided I wanted to buy some garlic

:16:19. > :16:22.and then I walked over that bridge without declaring it and tried to

:16:23. > :16:30.sell it in Sweden, I would be breaking the law. The garlic example

:16:31. > :16:34.sounds ridiculous, but garlic smuggling actually happens. In 2013,

:16:35. > :16:38.international arrest warrants were placed on two British men for

:16:39. > :16:45.smuggling ?8 million of Chinese garlic into the EU via Norway. And

:16:46. > :16:55.so, customs checks have to take place between Norway and Sweden.

:16:56. > :16:59.These ladies are head of customs on the Norwegian side of the border.

:17:00. > :17:05.This is a Polish lorry? Yes. That is right. You are interested in what is

:17:06. > :17:09.inside it? Yes. He has declared some goods. We have the paper for it and

:17:10. > :17:16.now we have to look if there is something else. To check what is

:17:17. > :17:19.actually in there? Yes. It's doors and windows on the trailers, so I

:17:20. > :17:25.can't see anything other than what he has declared. Quite a lot of work

:17:26. > :17:32.to find out what is in all of these lorries? Yes. This camera helps us a

:17:33. > :17:38.lot. Not all the lorries are scanned, but of those that do, not

:17:39. > :17:43.everyone behaves themselves. Yes. This is all the things... Alcohol

:17:44. > :17:48.and cigarettes are considerably cheaper in Sweden and taxes are

:17:49. > :17:54.lower on things like textiles. So if you haven't declared them, they get

:17:55. > :17:57.confiscated. Norway and Sweden collaborate closely and the customs

:17:58. > :18:01.process is almost completely automated. You can even download an

:18:02. > :18:07.app so that you can declare your goods on your phone. But truckers

:18:08. > :18:11.still have to stop for between five and ten minutes, and much longer if

:18:12. > :18:14.there are queues. Some truckers are fine with that. What do you think

:18:15. > :18:19.about the trucker process? It's not a problem for me, I'm from Sweden so

:18:20. > :18:25.it's fine. Others are less enthusiastic. The people here say it

:18:26. > :18:32.takes about ten minutes? That's not correct. If you come here on a

:18:33. > :18:34.Sunday evening, first I have to wait two hours. So the queue takes a long

:18:35. > :18:54.time? Yes. They say they've tried to prioritise

:18:55. > :19:00.things here, according to the Mayor. We have this year managed to get rid

:19:01. > :19:09.of two or three more of them. When we first joined the European Union,

:19:10. > :19:16.the ambulance in Sweden had to go via the custom control in Norway.

:19:17. > :19:18.And they were supposed to pay for the different drugs and equipment

:19:19. > :19:23.they had in the ambulance and they'll have the money back when

:19:24. > :19:30.they returned. But carrying a sick person, it wasn't possible to go via

:19:31. > :19:33.the custom control. That wasn't an easy thing to solve because it was

:19:34. > :19:38.obvious to everyone that you can't have it like that. But there's one

:19:39. > :19:43.key detail that makes this border so attractive to British politicians -

:19:44. > :19:46.that a bridge just down the river from this crossing helpfully

:19:47. > :19:50.illustrates. You may notice something different on this bridge

:19:51. > :19:54.between Sweden which is just over there and Norway behind me. And that

:19:55. > :20:00.is that there aren't any trucks or lorries on it. And that's for a

:20:01. > :20:05.reason. There are ten customs checks between Norway and Sweden and

:20:06. > :20:11.traders have to use these routes. Other crossings don't have customs

:20:12. > :20:15.checks and are monitored by cameras. Last week, Newsnight's David

:20:16. > :20:19.Grossman illustrated the soft border Ireland currently has. Wanna see how

:20:20. > :20:23.soft this border is right now? That is van is in the republic, now it's

:20:24. > :20:28.in the UK. The only hint it's gone from one country to another, the

:20:29. > :20:35.speed limit signs go from metric to imperial. If the UK were to emulate

:20:36. > :20:38.the Swedish Norwegian model for a normal punter not in the import

:20:39. > :20:42.export business, they really won't notice much of a difference. For

:20:43. > :20:48.truckers, it's a different story. There is hope for a true

:20:49. > :20:53.frictionless border though. Sweden and Norway intend to pilot next year

:20:54. > :20:57.using number plate recognition in order to automatically approve some

:20:58. > :21:01.vehicles. Can it be done technically, can something scan the

:21:02. > :21:06.lorries? Yes, they can scan the lorries and the registration plates.

:21:07. > :21:11.And that technology exists? The technology is there already. It's

:21:12. > :21:15.not implemented, it's not installed. To implement this technology, Martin

:21:16. > :21:25.says, means changing legislation which Norway, Sweden and the EU

:21:26. > :21:29.needs to approve. Not an easy task. David Davis is right to say that the

:21:30. > :21:31.Swedish Norwegian border is something to look at. But is it

:21:32. > :21:36.frictionless? Well, not quite. This year 16-year-olds could be

:21:37. > :21:43.forgiven for feeling like they need an extra GCSE

:21:44. > :21:46.to understand their exam results. This morning students in England

:21:47. > :21:49.received a mixture of numbers Numbers from one to nine

:21:50. > :21:53.for English and Maths and the traditional A,

:21:54. > :21:56.B, C letters for everything else. Grade 4 itself is

:21:57. > :22:01.a deemed as a 'pass'. Grade 5 is said to be

:22:02. > :22:04.a 'strong pass' splitting And for the brightest students -

:22:05. > :22:09.the old 'A star' and 'A' grades Grade 9 is the very top mark -

:22:10. > :22:16.and only achieved by a very The new system will be rolled

:22:17. > :22:19.out across all subjects The government claims this

:22:20. > :22:25.it is designed to make GCSEs harder, will drive up standards -

:22:26. > :22:28.but will the reforms And which students could risk

:22:29. > :22:32.getting lost in a new setup, already facing criticism

:22:33. > :22:36.for favouring the most able pupils? Joining me now are the outgoing head

:22:37. > :22:39.of Bedford Free School, Mark Lehain who is leaving to persue

:22:40. > :22:43.a career in education policy. Laura McInerney, Editor

:22:44. > :22:47.of Schoolsweek who used to be And Francis Gilbert -

:22:48. > :22:55.a teacher for 20 years and was one of the founders of the Local Schools

:22:56. > :23:02.Network. Is it worth the bother to have this

:23:03. > :23:05.complete change of the system? I think in the end it will be

:23:06. > :23:09.actually. I've been up since early because it was results day at my

:23:10. > :23:14.school and it's been a really, really positive buzzy day and

:23:15. > :23:17.there's been lots of lovely news to share with our students. From our

:23:18. > :23:20.students and talking to colleagues in other schools, students have got

:23:21. > :23:23.their head around the fact that they have a mixture of grades this year

:23:24. > :23:30.and it will be the same again next sun ever. -- summer. We are good at

:23:31. > :23:35.getting ourade around the system. But what is the benefit to the

:23:36. > :23:41.change? I'm also a maths teacher as well as a head teacher so I've

:23:42. > :23:46.taught the big fat massive GCSE and I've loved it. The students have

:23:47. > :23:48.done the foundation paper, grappling topics they might not have seen

:23:49. > :23:53.before. More challenging? Absolutely. And students have been

:23:54. > :23:58.getting stuck in, the top end. Let's talk about those in the middle.

:23:59. > :24:01.Papers will be filled with the eights, nines, but what about people

:24:02. > :24:06.around the four and five mark, Laura, does the new system hurt them

:24:07. > :24:09.more? This is where we have got a slightly strange situation because

:24:10. > :24:13.the Government have said the four is a standard pass and the five is a

:24:14. > :24:16.strong pass and it's not clear what that means. There is a concern that

:24:17. > :24:20.around one in five children who last year would have got a C which was

:24:21. > :24:23.just considered a pass and would get you into university and could get

:24:24. > :24:28.you into a job for example. Or an apprenticeship? Yes, which require a

:24:29. > :24:31.C. Now if those people ask for a five, there's one in five this year

:24:32. > :24:37.who got a four that might miss out. So we have a slightly odd situation

:24:38. > :24:41.in the middle and the Government haven't done a lot to clear that up.

:24:42. > :24:46.Employers have already said they're confused by this. They're left in

:24:47. > :24:50.limbo? Employers have always been confused. When you look at the

:24:51. > :24:55.surveys, they weren't clear on GCSEs either. But they're OK now going

:24:56. > :25:01.into college but we don't know what university is going to do.

:25:02. > :25:06.16-year-olds today might feel OK but in two years' time they might face a

:25:07. > :25:10.barrier. That is what is confusing. Do you see any merit in being

:25:11. > :25:13.ambitious and making the exams tougher and splitting the grade at

:25:14. > :25:15.the top and sometimes lower down because actually we need to

:25:16. > :25:25.understand where people are coming in? I would Dispute they're not

:25:26. > :25:29.tougher at all. I would say this massive concentration in on teaching

:25:30. > :25:32.in a test in a few hours on the other hand measures someone's

:25:33. > :25:37.ability over their whole school career is really troubling. I would

:25:38. > :25:41.get rid of the GCSEs completely and have us rethink the whole system

:25:42. > :25:46.because all students now go on to stay until 18 and we need to give

:25:47. > :25:51.them a rounded creative education which these GCSEs are not doing. I

:25:52. > :25:55.specialise in English and I certainly know that I've seen too

:25:56. > :25:58.many classes where it's just teaching to the test and the

:25:59. > :26:01.teachers aren't to blame for this, it's because central Government have

:26:02. > :26:06.got an obsession with the league tables. But that's not just come

:26:07. > :26:10.about with this system? No, it was there before. This Government have

:26:11. > :26:13.put rocket boosters on that. Mark, do you recognise any of that,

:26:14. > :26:16.teaching to test, it's not a full education now, it's all about the

:26:17. > :26:21.exam? No, of course I would dispute that. That's not why we go into the

:26:22. > :26:27.profession. But it might be the system... It's exam factories up and

:26:28. > :26:29.town the countries, the teachers aren't to blame, it's the

:26:30. > :26:34.politicians. Let him come back on that. Exam factories? We have always

:26:35. > :26:37.had the challenge about making sure you get the results at the end. That

:26:38. > :26:42.is nothing to do with the new grade systems. For me, the joy has been

:26:43. > :26:45.walking into the classes in my school. We are a new school so we

:26:46. > :26:48.have had to switch from getting our head around the old system to the

:26:49. > :26:54.new system in a short time. The joys has been going into the lessons and

:26:55. > :26:58.seeing my colleagues step up. What about creative subjects, drama,

:26:59. > :27:03.music, being cut back for the ex-tense of... No, no. The obsession

:27:04. > :27:05.with these kind of other... With respect, that's a leadership

:27:06. > :27:21.decision within a school. We have increased the art. That

:27:22. > :27:26.won't better GCSEs. It has everything to do with the way the

:27:27. > :27:30.Government's obsessively focussed on a few narrow subjects. I won't get

:27:31. > :27:36.you to agree on this, but Laura, you would like to see a return to

:27:37. > :27:41.O-levels wouldn't you and another system entirely? We have had a lot

:27:42. > :27:44.of change already so anything where we say rip everything up won't go

:27:45. > :27:50.down well. It would save millions of pounds. Let her finish. The original

:27:51. > :27:53.plan Michael Gove wanted was to reform things at the top end, we

:27:54. > :27:57.needed to get that differentiation for children who were very, very

:27:58. > :28:02.bright. What got missed was his plan to do something at the bottom end

:28:03. > :28:06.which is that children get very, very low grades. Some will have got

:28:07. > :28:10.a three, two or one and it's being considered a fail. Michael Gove's

:28:11. > :28:14.original plan was almost to split GCSEs in half and to enable some

:28:15. > :28:18.students to do more deeper but less content, if you like, so they could

:28:19. > :28:24.learn maybe two topics in history instead of four, do those over the

:28:25. > :28:29.two years and get one half of the GCSEs, then get the other half

:28:30. > :28:32.between the age of 16-18. These reforms are only helped the

:28:33. > :28:37.brightest and we have left the rest without any reform at all. Let me

:28:38. > :28:41.bring you back in, Mark. I know you have set up this school, you are

:28:42. > :28:45.leaving it to do other things but staying within education. It's very

:28:46. > :28:48.well you saying it's been a lovely day with celebrations, but parents

:28:49. > :28:53.and students will be watching who it wasn't a lovely day for. What are

:28:54. > :28:58.you doing to support those who now have no idea whether their four or

:28:59. > :29:01.five means they can get to the new stage because nobody really knows

:29:02. > :29:05.what it means? You can never know what the future holds but in the

:29:06. > :29:08.end, we have been really good at addressing changes we have had in

:29:09. > :29:11.the past. What have you said to those pupils today? Just as we have

:29:12. > :29:15.seen universities this year, just what they have been asking students

:29:16. > :29:18.in order they can fill their courses, it's inevitable you will

:29:19. > :29:22.find universities are not the answer. These pupils are the Guinea

:29:23. > :29:27.pigs and there's been a lot of change. Regardless of your view, we

:29:28. > :29:30.have had three Education Ministers in a matter of years and there's

:29:31. > :29:34.been huge changes. What have you said to pupil who is 're in limbo?

:29:35. > :29:40.The most important thing they can do now is to make sure that what they

:29:41. > :29:47.do next they do really, really well, be it an apprenticeship, A-levels or

:29:48. > :29:53.something else. Everyone has to stay in training until they're 18. If

:29:54. > :29:58.they haven't achieved the grade they need, they have a year or two to

:29:59. > :30:00.sort it out. I have to say, we have got to give our profession, students

:30:01. > :30:05.and families the credit because they've stepped up to the challenge

:30:06. > :30:06.when other things have happen and we are really good on that. Thank you

:30:07. > :30:16.very much. teacher! Spirited debate. Six hundred thousand of us visit

:30:17. > :30:19.Morocco on holiday every year. But there is a dark side

:30:20. > :30:22.to the country that most of us just associate with sun

:30:23. > :30:24.and seaside and soukhs. Last week a group of teenagers

:30:25. > :30:26.collectively raped a 24-year-old in a bus in broad

:30:27. > :30:29.daylight in Casablanca. No one stopped them

:30:30. > :30:32.and the woman did not report it. The attack was filmed and put

:30:33. > :30:34.on social media sparking outrage. And yesterday protests took place

:30:35. > :30:37.across the country in solidarity Amnesty International's Fadwa

:30:38. > :31:01.Elbooamrawee joins us from Rabat. Good evening. How big a problem...

:31:02. > :31:10.This... And how big a problem is sexual violence against women in

:31:11. > :31:14.Morocco? Indeed, this is not a first-time issue, as you mentioned,

:31:15. > :31:18.this is part of a widespread phenomenon that has been happening

:31:19. > :31:23.in this country for years now. As a human rights organisation, along

:31:24. > :31:26.with the other national and international organisations, we have

:31:27. > :31:30.been calling for years for the government is to be more proactive

:31:31. > :31:35.and find real solutions to put an end to its violence against women.

:31:36. > :31:39.And girls, especially in the public space. So far, we are still quite

:31:40. > :31:46.disappointed with the way things have been going on, with, you know,

:31:47. > :31:48.the governmentgovernment's work on this issue, as we have seen over the

:31:49. > :31:58.latest reaction from the government on this video and rape incidents on

:31:59. > :32:00.the bus, we are still disappointed. They have been mentioned vaguely, in

:32:01. > :32:04.clear terms that the government will be working on a strategy, and a

:32:05. > :32:09.mechanism to put an end to all of this. But then again, the

:32:10. > :32:13.government, through unclear statements, does not clarify

:32:14. > :32:18.exactly, you know, how it is supposed to work on this. They are

:32:19. > :32:26.not clarifying the nature of the strategy. And so... We are still...

:32:27. > :32:31.Can I just... I want to bring to the audience's attention, I did not know

:32:32. > :32:38.this, only in 2014, a matter of three years ago, has it become

:32:39. > :32:41.against the law to rape an underage girl, and get out of prosecution by

:32:42. > :32:48.marrying her! Have attitudes changed since the law was amended? Not much,

:32:49. > :32:54.to be honest, this is again another issue that we have to deal with and

:32:55. > :32:58.we are still trying to work on this, we are talking about a very

:32:59. > :33:05.conservative society that puts, you know, higher priority on the honour

:33:06. > :33:10.of the family. That puts priority on the honour of the girl of the family

:33:11. > :33:15.and society in general. We are not considering a woman as an equal

:33:16. > :33:23.citizen, and, again, when we talk about mentalities, regarding sexual

:33:24. > :33:26.harassment, rape, there is a taboo that goes into it, this is a

:33:27. > :33:31.patriarchal society, and the fact that since 2014, as an organisation

:33:32. > :33:37.we have been working through a global campaign on putting an end to

:33:38. > :33:42.violence. The one thing that is still very clear is that we are

:33:43. > :33:47.still a long way ahead in terms of changing mentalities, and creating

:33:48. > :33:54.actual real awareness about the issues. Thank you very much for

:33:55. > :33:55.talking to us and giving us that perspective from Amnesty

:33:56. > :33:58.International, talking about Morocco and it is an interesting insight and

:33:59. > :34:05.a sad one. South Africa's main opposition party

:34:06. > :34:07.is claiming that a major UK public relations firm has been found

:34:08. > :34:10.in breach of an industry code of conduct following a controversial

:34:11. > :34:12.social media campaign. As we reported a few weeks ago,

:34:13. > :34:15.Bell Pottinger has been accused of inflaming racial tensions

:34:16. > :34:17.in the country with the aim of boosting the image

:34:18. > :34:19.of the President, Jacob Zuma. Manvine Rana has been

:34:20. > :34:28.following the story. Good evening. Give us the background

:34:29. > :34:35.to all of this and what have we specifically learnt today? So, a

:34:36. > :34:40.disciplinary hearing heard on this on Friday, according to the

:34:41. > :34:41.published timetable, if it had been accelerated we would have known

:34:42. > :34:58.today, that has not happened, work in South Africa,

:34:59. > :35:03.hired by the Gupta family, who have made millions in the last couple of

:35:04. > :35:08.decades. This action was ruled by the opposition, it has become a huge

:35:09. > :35:11.politically totemic action, it is a proxy war against president Jacob

:35:12. > :35:16.Zuma himself, he is very close to this family, gather they are accused

:35:17. > :35:21.in South Africa of corruption and political influence on such an epic

:35:22. > :35:25.scale that it is called state capture, buying up a state to get

:35:26. > :35:29.government contract. Bell Pottinger Were brought in to bring attention

:35:30. > :35:33.away from this, by launching a racially divisive campaign,

:35:34. > :35:37.basically encouraging South Africans to blame their economic woes not on

:35:38. > :35:41.the president, and his policies, but on Wightman Okoli capital, the white

:35:42. > :35:46.businesses who have always operated in the country. What impact, from

:35:47. > :35:56.what we have learnt today, will it have on Bell Pottinger? -- but on

:35:57. > :36:01.white minority capital. They will announce sanctions they will take on

:36:02. > :36:05.September four, a couple of actions, they could expel them from the body

:36:06. > :36:09.from itself, they could suspend them, they could still work in the

:36:10. > :36:13.industry but since the scandal has broken, they have lost a number of

:36:14. > :36:17.clients. I interviewed this year, he admitted as much then, they are

:36:18. > :36:21.losing even more now, once found guilty by the industry body, it

:36:22. > :36:25.becomes hard for... Why do you think they may have been found guilty by

:36:26. > :36:29.the industry body? It has become so politically toxic, to be honest,

:36:30. > :36:32.since the interview I did with the CEO, I have been contacted by a

:36:33. > :36:37.number of people in the industry who saw this as looking so bad for the

:36:38. > :36:42.PR industry at large, they want to detox altogether, and they feel that

:36:43. > :36:45.if nothing is in to be done, the PR industry starts to look very bad.

:36:46. > :36:50.Now, there has been remiss in the last two days that the CEO has

:36:51. > :36:54.resigned, he denies it, we will wait and see, being a PR firm, if you

:36:55. > :37:03.would resign, you would probably wait... Thank you very much.

:37:04. > :37:10.Newsnight doesn't usually cover much sport.

:37:11. > :37:13.Frankly, we know our strengths, but the most hyped

:37:14. > :37:15.and possibly most absurd, sporting event of the year

:37:16. > :37:19.takes place this weekend so we're giving it a go.

:37:20. > :37:27.The undefeated 40-year-old Floyd Mayweather has come out of

:37:28. > :37:28.retirement to take on the ultimate fighting Champion, Ireland's Conor

:37:29. > :37:45.McGregor. -- The undefeated 40-year-old world

:37:46. > :37:48.champion Floyd Mayweather has come out of retirement to meet not a

:37:49. > :37:49.fellow boxer, but an Ultimate Fighting Champion. Ireland's

:37:50. > :37:51.29-year-old Conor McGregor. For the uninitiated, UFC was once described

:37:52. > :37:53.as no-holds barred human cock-fighting, but mixed martial

:37:54. > :37:55.artist Conor McGregor looks to be the tournament's first fighter to

:37:56. > :37:57.gain the recognition and respectability of mainstream boxing.

:37:58. > :38:02.Saturday night's fight will be McGregor's boxing debut, but that

:38:03. > :38:14.has not held back the hype and the trash talk.

:38:15. > :38:16.Mayweather is also gambling a lot in the ring,

:38:17. > :38:18.he will surpass fellow American Rocky Marciano's perfect

:38:19. > :38:20.record of 49 fights without defeat if he beats McGregor.

:38:21. > :38:22.But they both also have a lot to gain.

:38:23. > :38:24.McGregor's in line for a $100 million payday

:38:25. > :38:27.and Mayweather as much as $200 million.

:38:28. > :38:33.And they aren't the only ones raking in the cash, the broadcasters

:38:34. > :38:35.are set to profit as well, the fight's expected

:38:36. > :38:41.to break the record of 4.6 million pay-per-view buys set

:38:42. > :38:43.by Mayweather when he defeated Manny Pacquiao two years ago.

:38:44. > :38:46.So is this just a shameless cash grab, or will it be the greatest

:38:47. > :38:57.Joining me now from Las Vegas is Dan Hardy, a former ultimate

:38:58. > :39:00.fighter and now a Sky commentator for Saturday night's

:39:01. > :39:05.show, alongside the Editor of Boxing News magazine,

:39:06. > :39:16.Are you expecting great things? I am, we are already experiencing

:39:17. > :39:20.great things, breaking records left, right and centre, the fanfare, the

:39:21. > :39:23.hysteria, something we have never seen, certainly in mixed martial

:39:24. > :39:25.arts and not in boxing either, it is a special occasion.

:39:26. > :39:32.It will bring the best out of these fighters. Conor McGregor's first

:39:33. > :39:37.ever boxing match is this, against Floyd Mayweather, undefeated, he is

:39:38. > :39:41.not a professional boxer...? Has been thrown in at the deep end but

:39:42. > :39:44.this is where Conor McGregor's thrives, he has come through mixed

:39:45. > :39:49.martial arts and rewritten the rules around self-promotion, around

:39:50. > :39:53.performances inside the arena as well. The is a special athlete and

:39:54. > :39:57.they do not come along very often, when you have a person like Conor

:39:58. > :40:01.McGregor, he transcends the sport, he can step outside the octagon and

:40:02. > :40:04.step into the boxing ring. We have to give him a chance. Nothing to do

:40:05. > :40:08.with smelling the money, of course(!) LAUGHTER

:40:09. > :40:12.Do you think the boxing world has underestimated Conor McGregor? You

:40:13. > :40:18.have heard he's pretty special. I don't think we have, actually, he

:40:19. > :40:21.certainly has something about him, magnetic personality, fantastic

:40:22. > :40:24.fight in his own discipline, we know he has had a bit of boxing

:40:25. > :40:27.experience as a youngster, he has been training exceptionally hard,

:40:28. > :40:31.there has been good reports from his training camp. To make the jump to

:40:32. > :40:35.fight somebody who has been boxing since three years old is arguably

:40:36. > :40:38.one of the greatest fighters of all time and one of the best defensive

:40:39. > :40:43.fighters of all time, that is a humongous, almost ludicrous leap. A

:40:44. > :40:48.huge amount of hype about this, surely good for the boxing world?

:40:49. > :40:53.There is certainly a lot of hype about it but my concern is... Where

:40:54. > :40:57.does this spectacle appeal stop? Just because lots of people want to

:40:58. > :41:02.see something, does not make it OK, where do we go next? What if Conor

:41:03. > :41:04.McGregor wins, for example, and decides he wants to fight Anthony

:41:05. > :41:12.Joshua, and because everybody wants to see that fight, have we got to

:41:13. > :41:15.make it, even though it is insane... Coming back, boxing is hardly... You

:41:16. > :41:20.could hardly say it is noble, Floyd Mayweather's nickname is money, it

:41:21. > :41:25.is hardly as if people get into it for the noble art, isn't it. --

:41:26. > :41:30."Money". Know, and I did not suggest that is the case at all, no one

:41:31. > :41:33.could deny that the vast majority of Floyd Mayweather's career has been

:41:34. > :41:40.fuelled by his need and desire for riches. So they are pretty evenly

:41:41. > :41:44.matched, then, maybe. Evenly matched, bank balance, they could

:41:45. > :41:48.have a good fight! In terms of boxing, absolutely not evenly

:41:49. > :41:58.matched. Your money is on Floyd? Yes, my money is on Floyd, my money

:41:59. > :42:01.is on "Money". I'm commentating for Sky Sports, I have to stay

:42:02. > :42:06.impartial... I'm here to its blame basically, there is a chance for

:42:07. > :42:10.Conor, cannot count him out, Floyd Mayweather is great but he's 40, out

:42:11. > :42:14.of the sport for two years, 49 training camps will take it out of

:42:15. > :42:19.you. And problems, not necessarily the hardest puncher. His technique,

:42:20. > :42:23.defensive boxing, is excellent. The reason people are tuning in is

:42:24. > :42:25.because of Conor McGregor, no boxer in the world would have brought

:42:26. > :42:31.Floyd "Money" Mayweather out of retirement. No other UFC fighter

:42:32. > :42:37.could generate as much money as this. It will be on five live.

:42:38. > :42:43.That is all that we have time for. Naga Muchetty will be here tomorrow

:42:44. > :42:57.night. I'll see you soon. Goodnight. Weather feels like it is stuck in a

:42:58. > :42:58.rut, very similar whether