:00:00. > :00:09.Tonight on Newsnight, we look at the way the authorities
:00:10. > :00:11.investigate suspected cases of female genital mutilation.
:00:12. > :00:15.And we meet families who sometimes wait for months to be cleared
:00:16. > :00:20.We'll ask one campaigner, herself a survivor of this barbaric
:00:21. > :00:24.practice, why the wait can be so long, and what can be done
:00:25. > :00:31.We'll meet Helen and her 12-year-old daughter Lulya, who escaped
:00:32. > :00:34.the inferno on the 21st floor of the Grenfell Tower,
:00:35. > :00:36.speaking for the first time about the night,
:00:37. > :00:44.and their search for new accommodation.
:00:45. > :00:47.We came from the 21st floor, all the way down, my daughter,
:00:48. > :00:51.she was stuck on the tenth floor and she was in a coma for ten days,
:00:52. > :01:00.It's back to school for MPs, after a long summer
:01:01. > :01:04.All the talk of course is about Brexit.
:01:05. > :01:06.Nobody has ever pretended that this would be simple or easy.
:01:07. > :01:08.I've always said this negotiation would be tough...
:01:09. > :01:17.Tough, complex and at times confrontational.
:01:18. > :01:22.We'll get the latest from Nick Watt and Chris Cook.
:01:23. > :01:26.And get a first sight of a dramatic new report, in which the likes
:01:27. > :01:28.of the Archbishop of Canterbury and a whole series of
:01:29. > :01:30.heavy-hitting thinkers say "our economic model is broken".
:01:31. > :01:34.And hot on the heels of Hurricane Harvey,
:01:35. > :01:37.which devastated Texas, another massive storm
:01:38. > :01:43.This is what it looks like from the weather satellites.
:01:44. > :01:46.We'll ask how bad Hurricane Irma might be, and what parts of
:01:47. > :01:58.the Caribbean and the United States are most at risk.
:01:59. > :02:00.The distress of the former residents of Grenfell Tower
:02:01. > :02:03.will never be erased, but it seems that for some
:02:04. > :02:05.their subsequent treatment is only adding to their trauma.
:02:06. > :02:08.Three months on, just ten families have accepted offers
:02:09. > :02:16.164 more have engaged with a council system to find them homes -
:02:17. > :02:18.but there appear to be at least two problems, the suitability
:02:19. > :02:21.of the accommodation, and the way the council decides
:02:22. > :02:30.Newsnight has been speaking to Helen and her 12-year-old
:02:31. > :02:35.They escaped from their flat on the 21st floor and Lulya
:02:36. > :02:37.spent ten days in a coma following the fire,
:02:38. > :02:45.This is the first time they have spoken publicly about what happened.
:02:46. > :02:48.And a warning - this film by our producer Sara Moralioglu
:02:49. > :02:49.and special correspondent Katie Razzall contains content
:02:50. > :02:59.I was sleeping and my mum, she got up, she saw the whole house,
:03:00. > :03:02.the kitchen was on fire, so she grabbed me and she told me
:03:03. > :03:05.to get the dog, so I got the dog and I ran out.
:03:06. > :03:11.On their way to see what could become their new home,
:03:12. > :03:13.beauty salon owner Helen and her daughter Lulya lived
:03:14. > :03:17.They had a terrifying escape with neighbours, three hours
:03:18. > :03:28.This is the first time they've spoken publicly about their ordeal.
:03:29. > :03:34.I just looked up, at the window, there was a fire, I saw the fire
:03:35. > :03:37.coming, so I just ran, and I grabbed my daughter.
:03:38. > :03:41.Helen and Lulya are talking to us now because they and so many others
:03:42. > :03:43.face yet another battle - for a new home.
:03:44. > :03:47.A battle that can end up pitting resident against resident.
:03:48. > :03:50.The plan is to rehouse some Grenfell tenants in what is termed affordable
:03:51. > :03:55.Helen and Lulya thought they were going to visit a lower
:03:56. > :03:59.floor flat, only to find out it had been given to someone else.
:04:00. > :04:02.Instead they were shown one far higher up, on the tenth floor.
:04:03. > :04:11.When you see the full windows and the height, that is
:04:12. > :04:15.My mum likes them, the rooms and everything are OK,
:04:16. > :04:18.but it's not what I think they should be showing us,
:04:19. > :04:24.I never used to have any type of problem with anything,
:04:25. > :04:26.but now I'm getting anxious whenever I see any tall
:04:27. > :04:37.The council has opened a website to match Grenfell
:04:38. > :04:42.Flats are being offered under a four band priority system.
:04:43. > :04:45.Helen believes that is divisive at a time when the tower's
:04:46. > :04:46.former tenants still feel traumatised and vulnerable.
:04:47. > :04:54.We are the ones, we came from the 21st floor,
:04:55. > :04:57.all the way down, my daughter, she was stuck on the tenth floor
:04:58. > :05:01.and she was in a coma for ten days, so how come I am not priority?
:05:02. > :05:08.Does she have to be dead for them to prioritise me?
:05:09. > :05:16.In fact, it's not fair what they're doing it's not fair.
:05:17. > :05:18.Kensington and Chelsea Council say this is a matching rather
:05:19. > :05:26.Those who lost a family member are number one priority,
:05:27. > :05:29.then comes anyone with a disability, then those with dependents and then
:05:30. > :05:32.Grenfell residents and evacuated residents of nearby Grenfell Walk.
:05:33. > :05:36.None of the flats in Grenfell Tower had a balcony.
:05:37. > :05:39.After their horrific experience, Helen and Lulya are adamant
:05:40. > :05:47.The flat they were initially shown didn't.
:05:48. > :05:51.The fact that the fire was coming from the outside and the fire
:05:52. > :05:55.was on the kitchen wall, so if you have a balcony,
:05:56. > :05:59.you could step out and you would have a bigger chance
:06:00. > :06:07.of being rescued, so they could bring anything to come and save you.
:06:08. > :06:09.Hear their story, and you understand their logic.
:06:10. > :06:14.We tried to come out three times, but then,
:06:15. > :06:16.we had to go out the fourth, because the bedrooms
:06:17. > :06:36.Smoke had long ago entered Grenfell Tower's only stairwell.
:06:37. > :06:40.While I was going down, all the smoke, it was really thick,
:06:41. > :06:42.so it's like thick air going into you,
:06:43. > :06:50.I can hear everyone trying to find air,
:06:51. > :06:53.like everyone screaming, choking, gagging, then
:06:54. > :06:55.I trip over someone, someone lying on the floor,
:06:56. > :06:59.which is the worst part of everything.
:07:00. > :07:03.So, I'm squeezing my dog so much and my dog is trying to reach up
:07:04. > :07:10.to me and I roll down the stairs with my dog.
:07:11. > :07:16.I roll down like another ten sets of stairs and...
:07:17. > :07:21.And then I passed out and then I let go of my dog because I couldn't
:07:22. > :07:28.After I'd passed out and I dropped him, he went back
:07:29. > :07:33.up to the 21st floor, which is the floor that we lived
:07:34. > :07:41.Lily, the other dog, they found them both together.
:07:42. > :07:43.Lulya spent ten days in an induced coma undergoing treatment
:07:44. > :07:56.Like, you don't know what's happening.
:07:57. > :07:59.You're sleeping, you feel relaxed, but in a coma, you feel everything.
:08:00. > :08:16.Neither Lulya nor Helen will ever forget their experience.
:08:17. > :08:19.I'm saying to myself, you know, it's just a bad dream.
:08:20. > :08:46.Helen and Lulya have now seen two flats that they'e keen on.
:08:47. > :08:48.They're still waiting to find out if either
:08:49. > :08:52.She really liked the third floor, so let's hope they can do something
:08:53. > :08:56.Because we've been let down and I hope they're not
:08:57. > :09:11.Helen and daughter Lulya talking to Katie Razzle.
:09:12. > :09:13.In a statement, Kensington and Chelsea Council deputy leader
:09:14. > :09:16.Kim Taylor-Smith told us the council had prioritised bereaved families
:09:17. > :09:18.and made accommodation offers to them all.
:09:19. > :09:20.He added that the council had secured more than 100 homes
:09:21. > :09:23.to resettle people and said the housing team was working hard
:09:24. > :09:31.No one - David Davis observed today of Brexit negotiations -
:09:32. > :09:40.ever pretended this would be simple or easy.
:09:41. > :09:44.The Brexit Secretary came before the Commons with a concrete example
:09:45. > :09:49.of something he HAD managed to agree with the EU negotiator this week -
:09:50. > :09:51.continued use of the European-wide health insurance card for those
:09:52. > :09:54.Britons living in the EU when this country leaves the bloc.
:09:55. > :09:57.It's a step that will reassure many older retirees outside of Britain -
:09:58. > :10:00.although we don't yet know if the same priveleges will apply
:10:01. > :10:02.to tourists and visitors as they do at present.
:10:03. > :10:06.The chance to dwell on this was shortlived, however.
:10:07. > :10:12.This evening, the Guardian splashed on a leaked
:10:13. > :10:14.This evening, the Guardian splashed on a leaked government
:10:15. > :10:19.Britain might END free movement of Labour immediately after Brexit.
:10:20. > :10:22.Something mooted, but never previously laid quite so bare.
:10:23. > :10:24.Chris Cook - our policy editor - and Nick Watt our political
:10:25. > :10:37.Does this sound like confirmation of what we knew would happen? It is a
:10:38. > :10:42.lot more colour in the picture. The dilemma was that we wanted a really
:10:43. > :10:45.smooth transition after leaving the EU, we wanted EU to treat us much
:10:46. > :10:50.like a member for a little while until we get our acts together just
:10:51. > :10:54.that and that we wanted to convince the EU that basically free movement
:10:55. > :10:57.was probably going to continue during that transition period. At
:10:58. > :11:02.the same time the Government wanted to convince us, the British public,
:11:03. > :11:08.that free movement whatever to 30 ending. So it was a delicate needle
:11:09. > :11:13.to thread. The thing is, this document doesn't do it, it is very
:11:14. > :11:17.clearly ending free movement, even the registration of workers coming
:11:18. > :11:21.in during the transition period. I think this signals that this is a
:11:22. > :11:27.document from the Home Office side, the anti-migration side of the civil
:11:28. > :11:32.service, it's about a government, if it were to be followed, worrying
:11:33. > :11:36.more about domestic consumption than perhaps securing the best deal we
:11:37. > :11:42.can get from the EU. In terms of what David Davis said today in the
:11:43. > :11:46.Commons, Nick, what did you pick out from what he had to offer? Very
:11:47. > :11:50.important illustration of the old phrase follow the money just if
:11:51. > :11:55.David Davis has his way, we will be following the money for the entirety
:11:56. > :12:00.of these two-year negotiations. Now, that is not what the EU wants. They
:12:01. > :12:05.want the UK to come to an agreement on the framework in three areas -
:12:06. > :12:09.the divorce bill, the rights of EU citizens who are already here at the
:12:10. > :12:14.point of departure and Northern Ireland. And what this intervention
:12:15. > :12:18.from David Davis today shows is his confidence that he is going to be
:12:19. > :12:22.able to say to the EU, you have a rigid structure and we simply cannot
:12:23. > :12:26.agree the fundamentals on these three points until we know what the
:12:27. > :12:32.overall deal for the future will be. A lot of chat in Whitehall how
:12:33. > :12:36.Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, carrying out the agreed
:12:37. > :12:41.mandate of the 27 member states, is being rigid and there is a hope, not
:12:42. > :12:43.a belief, that if Angela Merkel is re-elected in September come we
:12:44. > :12:45.might get a Brexit may well provide the biggest
:12:46. > :12:51.structural change to the British Tomorrow, the IPPR will release
:12:52. > :12:54.a report containing its response to the challenges -
:12:55. > :12:56.and interestingly, for a think tank often seen as on the centre-left
:12:57. > :12:59.of the political spectrum - they've got together
:13:00. > :13:07.with Helena Morrisey, the high profile fund manager
:13:08. > :13:09.and keen Brexiteer - I'm in the City of London, ranked
:13:10. > :13:16.the world's top financial centre. And outside the City, of course,
:13:17. > :13:18.Britain is home to many But as well as those
:13:19. > :13:21.world-class companies, we also have a problem,
:13:22. > :13:23.we have more companies than our international competitors
:13:24. > :13:29.that are lower productivity. Productivity is a measure
:13:30. > :13:33.of output versus input. And since the financial crisis
:13:34. > :13:36.a decade ago, the UK's overall productivity growth has stalled,
:13:37. > :13:41.reducing our economic potential. And no-one is quite sure why
:13:42. > :13:45.and economists have dubbed this the productivity puzzle,
:13:46. > :13:46.but it really matters, because if we're not making
:13:47. > :13:50.the best use of skills, then people are in insecure
:13:51. > :13:55.jobs and on low wages. At this stage, we have
:13:56. > :14:00.rising pay inequality, stagnating household
:14:01. > :14:01.incomes and many young to have higher living
:14:02. > :14:04.standards than their parents and that is the first time that has
:14:05. > :14:07.happened for many generations. And the UK's economy is also
:14:08. > :14:13.geographically very imbalanced, with about 40% of output generated
:14:14. > :14:15.by London and the south-east and there are many geopolitical
:14:16. > :14:19.uncertainties, including Brexit. You could argue that we don't really
:14:20. > :14:22.so much have an economic model, The specific challenges may be quite
:14:23. > :14:31.different, but in many ways, the situation we are at today is not
:14:32. > :14:36.dissimilar from the 1940s, when we were looking to rebuild
:14:37. > :14:39.the economy after the war, or the 1980s, when we were
:14:40. > :14:41.recovering from a deep recession. The question is, how do we change
:14:42. > :14:44.the economy for the better? How can we make it
:14:45. > :14:46.work for more people? Our economy needs fundamental
:14:47. > :14:49.change, not just tinkering We need the City and British
:14:50. > :14:54.businesses to be investing We need employers to be focused
:14:55. > :14:58.on creating good jobs that contribute to higher productivity
:14:59. > :15:01.and improved competitiveness. And we need the government
:15:02. > :15:03.to implement an industrial strategy that helps British businesses grow
:15:04. > :15:10.at home and compete abroad. Well, another of those behind
:15:11. > :15:15.the report is the man whose job it once was to respond to these changes
:15:16. > :15:17.in Government, the Head the Civil Service between 2012
:15:18. > :15:33.and 2014, Sir Bob Kerslake. Thank you for joining us. This
:15:34. > :15:37.report, as her lean out was same air and as the Archbishop of Canterbury
:15:38. > :15:43.has said, is pretty bleak. It says the economy is broken, the model is
:15:44. > :15:47.broken, it is a real slating of the British economy. You have to
:15:48. > :15:52.recognise that the UK economy has simply stopped working for ordinary
:15:53. > :15:58.people and the statistics are really very start. We have had the longest
:15:59. > :16:04.period of wage stagnation for 150 years and at the same time, the very
:16:05. > :16:08.wealthy people, the chief executives have raced ahead. 30 years ago aged
:16:09. > :16:15.Chief Executive may on average may be 20 times that of a worker, now it
:16:16. > :16:19.is 150 times. There are some very fundamental questions about our
:16:20. > :16:24.economy and they will not be tackled... If Phillip Hammond was
:16:25. > :16:28.sitting here, he would say we have low unemployment, faster growth than
:16:29. > :16:34.Europe over the years, the deficit has come down, the structure is
:16:35. > :16:52.there, is he wrong? He is talking about
:16:53. > :16:56.one set of measures but if you look at the economy over a period of
:16:57. > :16:59.time, we have deep structural problems that have been there for a
:17:00. > :17:01.while. Productivity, 20% lower than France and Germany and our
:17:02. > :17:03.investment has fallen for 30 years and the differences between
:17:04. > :17:05.different parts of the country are extraordinary. In the north-east and
:17:06. > :17:08.the north-west you might be on 30% less in terms of your salary. Is
:17:09. > :17:11.this the way the free market is operating? Partly. It is actually
:17:12. > :17:14.about what kind of economy do we want to create? There is a sense in
:17:15. > :17:19.which people say we cannot do much about the economy, it is settled by
:17:20. > :17:23.the market but I think we can have an ambition for a prosperous and
:17:24. > :17:27.just a economy and work towards it. It is a question of clarity and
:17:28. > :17:31.well. You used the word just and it is striking when you have a figure
:17:32. > :17:39.like the Archbishop in this, do you think the way the economy is being
:17:40. > :17:43.run is a moral? I think it is producing outcomes that we will find
:17:44. > :17:45.hard to defend if we ask the question because it is not
:17:46. > :17:49.delivering their outcomes for many of the people in this country.
:17:50. > :17:53.Others will form a view whether that is about morality. You had to defend
:17:54. > :18:01.those practices, you worked in the civil service over many years, did
:18:02. > :18:05.you find, did you find them wrong at the time? I don't think we
:18:06. > :18:10.necessarily saw individual policies as wrong, but what you need to look
:18:11. > :18:14.that is a longer period of what has happened in the UK... Help me on
:18:15. > :18:18.this, give me a sense, it is all very well to save the model is
:18:19. > :18:23.broken and we need to change the structure, fundamental reform, what
:18:24. > :18:27.does that mean? When you talk about taxation you say we need there,
:18:28. > :18:32.smarter, simpler taxes, you do not address the question of whether we
:18:33. > :18:37.need more taxes, should we be taking in more taxes? My personal view is
:18:38. > :18:42.that the current austerity approach has run out of road and we need a
:18:43. > :18:46.new approach... That is broadly agreed across the spectrum, even to
:18:47. > :18:50.reason may have said that now. Consequences flow from that, we have
:18:51. > :18:55.a fiscal gap that will need to be addressed. We need to look at who
:18:56. > :19:00.pays what and how the system works. You will not get people to buy into
:19:01. > :19:05.a change around tax unless they feel the system is fair. Do you want to
:19:06. > :19:08.see more intervention of the state, the government playing a bigger
:19:09. > :19:13.role? We do not start from presumption that it is about more of
:19:14. > :19:16.a stable, we start from a sense were you need to be clear what kind of
:19:17. > :19:21.economy you're trying to create and everyone gets behind it. There will
:19:22. > :19:26.be really important tasks for the state to do and in the report we set
:19:27. > :19:31.out 30 different new ideas that can be considered. It is not just about
:19:32. > :19:36.the state... Let me put this to you. A couple of years ago, Jeremy Corbyn
:19:37. > :19:40.became Labour leader and he said pretty much what is in your report,
:19:41. > :19:46.many in the establishment laughed at him and today you have the likes of
:19:47. > :19:49.yourself and the Archbishop of Canterbury broadly saying, he is on
:19:50. > :19:54.the right track with what he is talking about now! What you have is
:19:55. > :19:58.a number of politicians, including the Prime Minister, saying, there
:19:59. > :20:03.are issues. She talked about burning injustices that needed to be
:20:04. > :20:08.tackled, Jeremy Corbyn is saying something, so with Vince Cable...
:20:09. > :20:13.Would you now embrace that vision for Britain? We want a vision that
:20:14. > :20:24.is embraced not just by one party, but by the country, a clear sense in
:20:25. > :20:26.which we can create a fairer, just and prosperous economy and then we
:20:27. > :20:29.want business and trade unions and others to get behind it. We are not,
:20:30. > :20:32.as you will sleep in the membership of the commission, starting from one
:20:33. > :20:35.political party. Let's talk about Brexit, you were a civil servant at
:20:36. > :20:39.the heart of this, when David Davis said no one thought it would be
:20:40. > :20:43.easy, there were some sniggers, because some suggested it would, you
:20:44. > :20:46.ran the civil service, do you think they are embracing this challenge,
:20:47. > :21:03.are they ready for this and can they deliver it? The civil service
:21:04. > :21:08.prides itself on doing the job it is asked to do by the government of the
:21:09. > :21:10.day. It serves the government of the day and the government of the day is
:21:11. > :21:13.wanting to deliver Brexit. The challenge here and I will be direct,
:21:14. > :21:15.from my perspective, there is no upside. This is about damage
:21:16. > :21:17.limitation and we are working the situation where policy has not been
:21:18. > :21:20.properly settled. The Guardian story that Chris was talking about, it
:21:21. > :21:24.would be the end of free movement of Labour, pretty much from the start
:21:25. > :21:26.of Brexit and the document, draft document admittedly, it describes a
:21:27. > :21:32.massive IT operation and solution which would let people know, whether
:21:33. > :21:36.that person was allowed to work in the UK, where tapping on a number,
:21:37. > :21:41.is that feasible? I have not seen the details and I cannot comment. An
:21:42. > :21:45.election that was intended to settle the way we left the European Union
:21:46. > :21:50.did nothing of the sword. We still have a very live debate about how
:21:51. > :21:56.the transition period will work. In that situation, civil servants will
:21:57. > :22:01.struggle to get coherent policies, if the politicians have not sorted
:22:02. > :22:04.out their priorities. When the Prime Minister says that no deal is better
:22:05. > :22:11.than a bad deal, from a civil service point of view, no deal even
:22:12. > :22:14.an option? Could we survive no deal? I don't know what the civil service
:22:15. > :22:18.would say but I know my view, it would be an utter and complete
:22:19. > :22:22.disaster for this country and we need to be very frank about this,
:22:23. > :22:24.there is not a no deal option that would be good for this country.
:22:25. > :22:36.Thank you for coming in. Thank you. or health care professional suspects
:22:37. > :22:40.that a child has been the victim of female genital mutilation,
:22:41. > :22:42.they're obliged to to the local child
:22:43. > :22:44.safeguarding authority. But an investigation for Newsnight
:22:45. > :22:47.and Radio 4's The World At One has established that it can take months
:22:48. > :22:51.for children to be examined in cases And families can face
:22:52. > :22:53.lengthy and traumatic waits to prove their innocence -
:22:54. > :22:56.in some cases, children have been taken into care before
:22:57. > :22:58.they have even been examined. Newsnight has also revealed
:22:59. > :23:00.questions about the capabilities and credibility of one of the UK's
:23:01. > :23:03.best-known FGM specialists, Comfort Momoh, when it comes
:23:04. > :23:05.to examining children for FGM. Dr Faye Kirkland, a practising GP
:23:06. > :23:25.and investigative reporter, It has been called a hidden crime.
:23:26. > :23:30.FGM has been illegal in the UK for more than 30 years. It is still a
:23:31. > :23:35.common cultural practice in many countries in Africa, parts of Asia
:23:36. > :23:39.and the Middle East. There are no definitive figures, but the British
:23:40. > :23:45.Government has warned thousands are at risk and has committed to ending
:23:46. > :23:50.FGM worldwide within a generation. The issue of FGM is one on which I
:23:51. > :23:53.think we are all agreed across this whole house, it is an abhorrent
:23:54. > :24:17.activity, it should not be taking place. But are the
:24:18. > :24:19.authorities taking the right approach to investigating suspected
:24:20. > :24:21.cases of FGM, especially where children are concerned? We have been
:24:22. > :24:23.told that excessive waits for the examination of children are causing
:24:24. > :24:25.unnecessary trauma and that children can be placed under child protection
:24:26. > :24:28.measures while enquiries are ongoing. I felt like the whole world
:24:29. > :24:30.was crumbling down on me. Newsnight heard concerns about the credibility
:24:31. > :24:37.of one of the country's leading FGM campaigners and health care
:24:38. > :24:42.professionals. Nearly two years ago, it became a legal requirement for
:24:43. > :24:47.health care professionals, social workers and teachers to report cases
:24:48. > :24:54.of FGM in children to the police. But there are concerns the way some
:24:55. > :24:57.cases are being investigated is harming children and their families.
:24:58. > :25:00.If a child is suspected of having been subjected to FGM they should be
:25:01. > :25:05.physically examined by a specialist. In many cases however, it is a final
:25:06. > :25:10.part of the investigative process and can take place months after an
:25:11. > :25:14.accusation is made. When the child could already be on a child
:25:15. > :25:19.protection plan or in foster care. One reason being told is that police
:25:20. > :25:22.and social services and often misunderstand the nature of the
:25:23. > :25:30.examination, believing it to be more intrusive to the child than it
:25:31. > :25:36.actually is. This is the letter... It says there, there is no evidence
:25:37. > :25:42.of FGM. Yes. Pregnant with her third child, this woman, we will call her
:25:43. > :25:46.Emma, to protect the identities of children, asked a question out of
:25:47. > :25:50.curiosity during a routine medical appointment after the midwife
:25:51. > :25:56.mentioned FGM. Emma told me that she wanted to clarify what FGM was but a
:25:57. > :26:02.question sparked an investigation. It was curiosity. And who would be
:26:03. > :26:06.the best person to ask? It was the midwife. That same night a police
:26:07. > :26:09.officer came to her door, gave her leaflets and warned her about the
:26:10. > :26:13.practice. One year later, the same officer came back with social
:26:14. > :26:17.services, this time they said they had been informed she had had the
:26:18. > :26:21.procedure herself and there were concerns it had been carried out on
:26:22. > :26:25.her daughters. Emma denied the accusations, but the girls were put
:26:26. > :26:35.on a child protection plan, and measure local authorities used to
:26:36. > :26:38.safeguard children and maintain oversight of the family, before they
:26:39. > :26:40.had even been examined. What happened over the next few months?
:26:41. > :26:45.The atmosphere changed in the house. I wasn't myself. I had just had a
:26:46. > :26:51.baby, I was not given time to recover. I felt like the whole world
:26:52. > :26:57.was crumbling down on me and my children's behaviour changed in
:26:58. > :27:01.school. It triggered naughty behaviour and that had not happened
:27:02. > :27:06.before. I needed an examination done on me and my children and I knew
:27:07. > :27:12.that I had not undergone FGM and neither had my children. My children
:27:13. > :27:20.were fine and healthy, I had not heard them in any way. -- I had not
:27:21. > :27:25.hurt them. Newsnight has been told that her story is not uncommon. A
:27:26. > :27:28.charity that works with families told us they had seen a child is
:27:29. > :27:33.placed into foster care for eight months while waiting to be examined.
:27:34. > :27:38.She was found not to have had FGM, but the delay caused serious
:27:39. > :27:44.distress. They are calling for changes to be made. Using the right
:27:45. > :27:48.translators, ensuring that there is effective support for families to
:27:49. > :27:53.get legal assistance, because of the challenges with Legal Aid and
:27:54. > :27:59.ensuring that families are examined on time and children are as well,
:28:00. > :28:02.but in a sensitive way and within the right environments. Do you think
:28:03. > :28:09.the way some investigations are being handled is letting families
:28:10. > :28:15.down? Oh, yes. A lot of times, what becomes a problem is possibly lack
:28:16. > :28:18.of training for professionals, effective training. There is a knee
:28:19. > :28:24.jerk reaction from professionals when they hear FGM, sometimes, I
:28:25. > :28:28.don't know whether it is terrified or wanting to make sure that
:28:29. > :28:38.something does not go wrong. So, they really go in too hard. At 26
:28:39. > :28:40.team by experts at university College London Hospital, showed
:28:41. > :28:44.children were waiting nearly two months on average to be referred for
:28:45. > :28:51.an examination, but there are cases of weights of over one year. In a
:28:52. > :28:57.Home Affairs Select Committee report two years ago, Keith Vaz warned,
:28:58. > :29:00.while agencies play pass the parcel responsibility, young girls are
:29:01. > :29:06.being mutilated every hour of every day. This barbaric crime which is
:29:07. > :29:11.committed daily on such a huge scale across the UK cannot continue to go
:29:12. > :29:15.unpunished. But I have been told by specialists around the country that
:29:16. > :29:19.many cases they see are historic and they do not believe that FGM is
:29:20. > :29:26.taking place in this country at anything like the same rates as some
:29:27. > :29:30.politicians have stated. There are three main specialist centres in the
:29:31. > :29:35.UK where children are examined for FGM, based in London, Birmingham and
:29:36. > :29:38.here in Manchester. Doctor Catherine White of Saint Mary 's sexual
:29:39. > :29:43.assault referral centre has seen more than 40 referrals since
:29:44. > :29:49.mandatory reporting came in. 14 of those cases were found an
:29:50. > :29:54.examination to have had FGM. So far we have not noticed FGM in cases
:29:55. > :29:58.where the family have said, no, the child has not had it. Of the cases
:29:59. > :30:05.you have seen, how many of them have occurred here in the UK? None. Where
:30:06. > :30:11.we have seen evidence of FGM, the children have been born outside of
:30:12. > :30:15.the UK and the history is that they have had the FGM done outside of the
:30:16. > :30:19.UK. In the media we have been told that they might be thousands of
:30:20. > :30:27.cases. Why do you think there is a discrepancy in those figures?
:30:28. > :30:38.I know that some of it might be that it's hidden, but I think if certain
:30:39. > :30:49.types of FGM were being done at the rates that we were led to expect, we
:30:50. > :30:52.would be seeing cases coming through with infection or bleeding, they
:30:53. > :30:55.would be ending up in front of health officials and they would then
:30:56. > :31:01.be referred to us - and that's just hasn't happened. These clinics
:31:02. > :31:04.provide very specialised care. But Newsnight has learned that some
:31:05. > :31:06.children have been examined by people whose qualifications and
:31:07. > :31:14.experience have been called into question. Comfort Momoh is a midwife
:31:15. > :31:19.and leading campaigner against FGM. She established one of the UK's
:31:20. > :31:23.first FGM clinics at a Guy's Hospital and is recently retired
:31:24. > :31:29.from Guy's and St Thomas' trust. Gee whizz! MBE for her work in women's
:31:30. > :31:33.health, but senior specialists have raised concerns to Newsnight about
:31:34. > :31:37.whether she is completely credible, specifically when it comes to
:31:38. > :31:40.examining children for FGM. The Home Office and the bodies which set the
:31:41. > :31:44.standards for the forensic examination of children all say that
:31:45. > :31:50.only doctors with the relevant qualifications and experience should
:31:51. > :31:53.examine children for FGM. But Comfort Momoh has examined at least
:31:54. > :31:57.five children, despite not having the relevant codification is. In a
:31:58. > :32:02.high-profile case she testified that a child had had FGM. Adjudged
:32:03. > :32:07.ascribed her report as a remarkably shoddy piece of work and worse than
:32:08. > :32:16.useless. He concluded the child had not undergone FGM. A week later, in
:32:17. > :32:21.a separate court case, Comfort Momoh was listed as a key expert witness
:32:22. > :32:24.for the prosecution of the trial of the first doctor in the UK
:32:25. > :32:28.prosecuted for allegedly carrying out FGM. Newsnight understands
:32:29. > :32:31.Comfort Momoh was due to give evidence but was dropped just before
:32:32. > :32:36.the trial, although no reasons were given. A jury acquitted the doctor
:32:37. > :32:42.after less than half an hour of deliberations. There are also
:32:43. > :32:46.suggestions that Comfort Momoh might be exaggerating her professional
:32:47. > :32:51.qualifications. She has repeatedly describe herself as a doctor but is
:32:52. > :32:56.not a qualified medical doctor. Instead she has an honorary
:32:57. > :33:01.doctorate from Middlesex university. A university spokesman confirmed to
:33:02. > :33:04.Newsnight that this does not enable her to use the title doctor.
:33:05. > :33:08.Newsnight put these allegations to Comfort Momoh but she has chosen not
:33:09. > :33:15.to respond. Newsnight also approached the Nursing And Midwifery
:33:16. > :33:18.Council and they told us they were already investigating concerns about
:33:19. > :33:24.Comfort Momoh. We do not know whether this is connected in any way
:33:25. > :33:27.with our findings. Emma had to fight to get her children examine the, but
:33:28. > :33:35.she says the struggle has had long-lasting effects on her and her
:33:36. > :33:39.family. The police officer said to me, if I had not had the examination
:33:40. > :33:47.taken for my children because I would have lost my children - social
:33:48. > :33:52.services would have taken them away. What impact has this had on you as a
:33:53. > :33:55.mum and your children? I didn't want to lose my children. It would have
:33:56. > :34:04.been so heartbreaking, so it gave me the strength to get them examined by
:34:05. > :34:10.a specialist that is trained to examine in that field, knock
:34:11. > :34:17.anybody, any doctor or any GP, it should be somebody trained
:34:18. > :34:22.specifically for that. Protecting women and girls from FGM is crucial.
:34:23. > :34:27.At examinations needs to be timely and carried out by qualified people.
:34:28. > :34:28.There is more work to be done to save young girls from unnecessary
:34:29. > :34:35.distress. We asked to speak to someone
:34:36. > :34:37.from the Home Office, Joining us now is Leyla Hussein,
:34:38. > :35:17.a psychotherapist It is nice of you to come in. You've
:35:18. > :35:22.seen some of these delayed cases - why are children separated from
:35:23. > :35:26.their parents for so long? For me I think it is important that we make
:35:27. > :35:32.it very clear - whenever a child is at risk of any harm, obviously, I
:35:33. > :35:37.think the authorities do the right thing by removing the child. Is it
:35:38. > :35:45.delayed? Yes. Is it wrong? Yes. But there is a reason. The reason it
:35:46. > :35:49.happens, unfortunately, when we work in such cases, multi-agency work
:35:50. > :35:53.needs to take place. Unfortunately when we are dealing with FGM, there
:35:54. > :35:56.aren't enough experts who are working with the authorities, hence
:35:57. > :36:00.why there is such a long delay. But when you talk about multi-agency
:36:01. > :36:05.approaches, for most people watching, they assume it's physical
:36:06. > :36:09.college is fairly easy to spot, it's something that actually a doctor can
:36:10. > :36:14.look at and tell very quickly - why isn't that the case? There are
:36:15. > :36:20.different types of FGM, that important. But also we need to
:36:21. > :36:25.understand, communities who practice FGM still don't see this as a form
:36:26. > :36:28.of abuse. This was something that was good for us, it's something for
:36:29. > :36:33.professionals to understand, so we're not going to come forward and
:36:34. > :36:37.say this happened to us, hence why it is still not being picked up as
:36:38. > :36:41.it should be. But when the suspected cases were followed up, most of them
:36:42. > :36:44.were found to be false, these allegations, so does that suggest
:36:45. > :36:49.the system is wrong or they are chasing the wrong people or they are
:36:50. > :36:56.not able to...? I think we need to be careful when we say it's false
:36:57. > :37:01.allegations. From my own experience, we are talking about... Since the
:37:02. > :37:06.protection orders were introduced, it invented girls from undergoing
:37:07. > :37:10.the practice. And any family, you contact them regarding any form of
:37:11. > :37:15.abuse, they're not going to say to you, we abuse our child. From my own
:37:16. > :37:22.experience, when protection orders were introduced over a two years
:37:23. > :37:28.ago, the first year, there were over 90 reported cases, 90 protection
:37:29. > :37:32.orders were put in place and a lot of them came from family members, we
:37:33. > :37:38.cannot ignore that. Of those 90, do we know how many...? I can't give a
:37:39. > :37:43.specific... From my own experience, families who I worked with, it came
:37:44. > :37:47.from siblings who overheard families talk about planning to take them
:37:48. > :37:50.away. And of course, if you take somebody away before it's happened
:37:51. > :37:55.and there is no physical evidence, it doesn't mean it's not going to
:37:56. > :37:59.happen? And this is the thing with FGM. The only way you can actually
:38:00. > :38:03.prove it takes place is if it actually happens. What we are trying
:38:04. > :38:10.to do, and the UK Government, is to do the prevention work. I'm going to
:38:11. > :38:14.repeat myself but if you are dealing with any form of abuse of a child,
:38:15. > :38:18.there is a procedure you have to go through to investigate. Does it take
:38:19. > :38:22.long? Absolutely and it shouldn't, but what the Government needs to do
:38:23. > :38:25.is invest more resources in working with the local authorities, and
:38:26. > :38:32.that's what's been missing. Let me ask you something. We heard in the
:38:33. > :38:39.film, what's remarkable is that many quietly think the problem of FGM in
:38:40. > :38:42.this country has shrunk, that it's a good news story, a positive story
:38:43. > :38:46.they don't say that for fear that people will turn round and say,
:38:47. > :38:54.you're covering this up - where do you stand on that? For me, in terms
:38:55. > :38:59.of attitude is changing, we are seeing a little bit of change. And
:39:00. > :39:04.also I think those of us who work in the UK, what we need to take credit
:39:05. > :39:07.for, if you look at FGM globally, we really are leading in terms of how
:39:08. > :39:13.we are dealing with this. But we have a law, the French don't have a
:39:14. > :39:20.law - has the law actually hindered us compared to the French system,
:39:21. > :39:24.which has actually...? I have always been against the FGM Act. For me, if
:39:25. > :39:29.you have a child because you treat it like any other form of abuse. If
:39:30. > :39:33.you were cutting a child's finger, it should not be any different from
:39:34. > :39:38.cutting their genitals. That's why a lot of communities feel ostracised,
:39:39. > :39:43.because they feel they need to have a specific law just for them. And
:39:44. > :39:47.hence why no-one comes forward. The reason France has been successful in
:39:48. > :39:50.this particular aspect of the work, it's because they haven't treated it
:39:51. > :39:54.differently. I know from colleagues who work in France who say to me, we
:39:55. > :40:01.would see this as a form of child abuse. It's a form of child abuse.
:40:02. > :40:06.I've had police officers here in the UK who have come up to me and said,
:40:07. > :40:11.if I walked into such a scene, I wouldn't call it female genital
:40:12. > :40:12.mutilation comma it's a sexual assault against a child. Thanks for
:40:13. > :40:17.coming in. And last but certainly
:40:18. > :40:19.not least tonight, growing fears about another giant
:40:20. > :40:22.hurricane in the Atlantic Ocean. Hurricane Irma is gaining
:40:23. > :40:24.in strength and heading towards the Caribbean
:40:25. > :40:25.and United States. Stav Danaos, from our
:40:26. > :40:33.Weather Centre, is here. Talk us through what you're
:40:34. > :40:38.expecting - how do you know how big it's going to be? We are looking at
:40:39. > :40:42.the satellite picture, which is proving what a huge monster this
:40:43. > :40:49.storm is. But in the last few hours, it has intensified rapidly. It has
:40:50. > :40:57.become an extremely catastrophic, strong Eckel category five storm,
:40:58. > :41:03.with winds of 185mph with gusts in excess of 220mph. It does not really
:41:04. > :41:09.get stronger than this. You have a sense of where it is going to hit
:41:10. > :41:12.land? Most computer models agree that it is heading westwards into a
:41:13. > :41:17.cluster of islands. Because it's such a big storm, it is difficult
:41:18. > :41:23.for it to avoid that cluster of islands. The strongest winds are
:41:24. > :41:26.around the eye, where we see the extreme devastation. But even
:41:27. > :41:30.further out, the winds will be damaging. And then you have got an
:41:31. > :41:34.extremely powerful is Toms surge associated with it and with the low
:41:35. > :41:38.pressure and the strong winds as well and the heavy rain. We can see
:41:39. > :41:45.here on the satellite picture the intensity of the eye. They're saying
:41:46. > :41:50.this is the biggest for ten years? It is and it could be up with the
:41:51. > :41:55.top three strongest ever Atlantic storms and it is not far off being
:41:56. > :41:59.THE stronger stuff all. Is it possible that it could avoid land
:42:00. > :42:02.treaty? Not really, because it's going to be heading westwards
:42:03. > :42:08.towards the Virgin Islands and Haiti. Bluntly, you would be getting
:42:09. > :42:14.out if you were in any of those islands tonight? Absolutely, and in
:42:15. > :42:21.places like Antigua, Barbuda, which are going to be hit in the early
:42:22. > :42:24.hours, if you're in a concrete, reinforced building, you will be
:42:25. > :42:30.fine, but other areas will be completely flattened. The difference
:42:31. > :42:36.with Harvey, back did cause damage on the coast, but because the
:42:37. > :42:41.landmass of the United States is so huge, the landmass kills off the
:42:42. > :42:48.supply of moisture, so all the rain which fell in Harvey fell in a small
:42:49. > :42:53.area. It almost stalled around the Houston area. This one is going to
:42:54. > :43:01.be more mobile and it's going to maintain its strength.
:43:02. > :43:08.We would like to leave you with more pictures from outer space, the
:43:09. > :43:14.Voyager probe, launched 40 years ago today, the first man-made probe to
:43:15. > :43:21.leave our solar system, built in the 1970s and still sending us back
:43:22. > :43:34.answers - as well as questions - about the universe. Good night. We
:43:35. > :43:42.have lift-off! Hello from the children of planet Earth...