31/10/2017

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0:00:09 > 0:00:15Oh, my God!

0:00:15 > 0:00:19Eight dead and at least 12 injured in Manhattan in what appears to be

0:00:19 > 0:00:20an Islamist terrorist attack.

0:00:20 > 0:00:22We'll have the latest from the scene and ask whether America

0:00:22 > 0:00:24will always be prey to terror.

0:00:24 > 0:00:25Also tonight:

0:00:25 > 0:00:28I was seriously sexually assaulted at a Labour Party event by someone

0:00:28 > 0:00:33who was more senior to me.

0:00:33 > 0:00:38It was suggested to me that I not report it.

0:00:38 > 0:00:42I was told if I did it might damage me.

0:00:42 > 0:00:45I'll be talking to the Labour MP John Mann about these allegations

0:00:45 > 0:00:47by former NEC member Bex Bailey, the consequences for her attacker

0:00:47 > 0:00:49and how Labour should react.

0:00:49 > 0:00:51And the Russians were all over Facebook Google and Twitter

0:00:51 > 0:00:53like a rash during the US presidential campaign,

0:00:53 > 0:00:55according to tonight's Congressional hearings.

0:00:55 > 0:01:02Can we trust the tech giants to act responsibly?

0:01:02 > 0:01:11I think you do enormous good. But your power sometimes scares me.

0:01:15 > 0:01:16Good evening.

0:01:16 > 0:01:18The US authorities are treating the striking of pedestrians

0:01:18 > 0:01:22and cyclists in Lower Manhattan as a terror attack.

0:01:22 > 0:01:26A pick up truck, travelling the wrong way on the West Side Highway,

0:01:26 > 0:01:28driven by a 29-year-old man who is now in custody,

0:01:28 > 0:01:30ploughed through people at speed.

0:01:30 > 0:01:33So far eight people are reported dead and twelve injured.

0:01:33 > 0:01:36President Trump tweeted that it looks like an attack by a very

0:01:36 > 0:01:37sick and deranged man.

0:01:37 > 0:01:40The driver who was shot by police got out of the van wielding

0:01:40 > 0:01:47what were later described as imitation guns.

0:01:47 > 0:01:58The American immediate media is reporting he is an Uzbek national.

0:01:58 > 0:02:01The BBC's Michele Fleury joins us from the scene.

0:02:01 > 0:02:06What do we know about this?I'm at the edge of what we know is a terror

0:02:06 > 0:02:16attack. A couple of hours ago behind a school a vehicle drove up on to a

0:02:16 > 0:02:21busy bike lane, crashing into people. An officer was able to alert

0:02:21 > 0:02:25people quickly, but not before the drive emerged from the vehicle

0:02:25 > 0:02:29shouting as we understand, and wielding fake firearms, what we now

0:02:29 > 0:02:37understand to be a pellet gun and a paint Balogun. The individual was

0:02:37 > 0:02:43shot by the police and taken into custody. I'm standing a few blocks

0:02:43 > 0:02:49from the site of the World Trade Center, so New Yorkers are no

0:02:49 > 0:02:54stranger to terror, he said, but they know how to be resilient. The

0:02:54 > 0:02:59police said you can expect an increased presence on the streets

0:02:59 > 0:03:02tonight, which is Hallowe'en. Typically a festive time here.Thank

0:03:02 > 0:03:10you.

0:03:10 > 0:03:13A little earlier New York Mayor Bill de Dlasio gave an update

0:03:13 > 0:03:15on what happened at a press conference in the city -

0:03:15 > 0:03:18he said New York would not be cowed by the attack,

0:03:18 > 0:03:20which happened just a few blocks from Ground Zero.

0:03:20 > 0:03:22It's a very painful day in our city.

0:03:22 > 0:03:24A horrible tragedy on the West Side.

0:03:24 > 0:03:27Let me be clear, based on the information that we have at the

0:03:27 > 0:03:30moment, this was an act of terror and a particularly cowardly act of

0:03:30 > 0:03:33terror aimed at innocent civilians, aimed at people going about their

0:03:33 > 0:03:39lives who had no idea what was about to hit them.

0:03:39 > 0:03:42I'm joined from New York by Jerome Hauer -

0:03:42 > 0:03:45he was the director of New York's director Office of Emergency

0:03:45 > 0:03:53Management and was involved in handling the response to 9/11.

0:03:53 > 0:04:00A horrible night, and obviously a lot of confusion. The procedures

0:04:00 > 0:04:08will be in place quickly to deal with this, am I right?Absolutely.

0:04:08 > 0:04:14This was a lone actor at this point, that is what it looks like. The

0:04:14 > 0:04:19police department acted very quickly, were able to subdue this

0:04:19 > 0:04:27man before he did any more damage. Unfortunately, these types of act

0:04:27 > 0:04:35have become all too frequent, because they're so easy. Cars, guns,

0:04:35 > 0:04:40small bombs have an impact. It might not kill or injure large numbers of

0:04:40 > 0:04:46people, but they do have their effect, sending a message by someone

0:04:46 > 0:04:52who wants to execute this kind of attack.What we know is now the New

0:04:52 > 0:04:58York media are talking about him being a 29-year-old Uzbek who came

0:04:58 > 0:05:01as a refugee in 2010. There are concerns clearly around immigration

0:05:01 > 0:05:07at the moment, that is not one of countries affected by the ban. What

0:05:07 > 0:05:10impact will that information have do you think?Just because it is not

0:05:10 > 0:05:15impacted by the ban, doesn't mean that he didn't start somewhere

0:05:15 > 0:05:20that's impacted by the ban or in some other country, where he got

0:05:20 > 0:05:26trained and received the kind of training or the kind of

0:05:26 > 0:05:31radicalisation you see with these kinds of folk and then he moved to

0:05:31 > 0:05:36other countries. Which makes it easier to move or get into the

0:05:36 > 0:05:41United States.This is a big night in the New York calendar,

0:05:41 > 0:05:44Hallowe'en, a lot more people on the streets than normal on a Tuesday

0:05:44 > 0:05:49night, in a sense a kind of a perfect time for somebody who wants

0:05:49 > 0:05:55to do damage to do it. Will there be a lock down in Lower Manhattan?The

0:05:55 > 0:06:00area where the attack occurred is locked down right now. It is a crime

0:06:00 > 0:06:07scene. The FBI, the YYPD, are going through everything to ensure nothing

0:06:07 > 0:06:15is missed. The parade in Lower Manhattan is many blocks away. But

0:06:15 > 0:06:21can I assure you there will be an increased presence at the parade

0:06:21 > 0:06:27surrounding it.Thank you for joining us.

0:06:27 > 0:06:30It is hard to imagine that there might come a time

0:06:30 > 0:06:32when every story of inappropriate behaviour, harassment,

0:06:32 > 0:06:35and sexually abusive activity will be exposed and dealt with -

0:06:35 > 0:06:38such is the avalanche of revelations from here and from Hollywood.

0:06:38 > 0:06:41Production was suspended today on Kevin Spacey's House of Cards,

0:06:41 > 0:06:43following his apology for an allegedly predatory act

0:06:43 > 0:06:46on a teenager which he conflated with his announcement he was gay,

0:06:46 > 0:06:50itself drawing huge ire.

0:06:50 > 0:06:53In Westminster this morning, there were claims that various lists

0:06:53 > 0:06:56of MPs and ministers facing harassment allegations

0:06:56 > 0:07:01are circulating and then tonight came the shocking revelation

0:07:01 > 0:07:04from young former Labour NEC member Bex Bailey that she was raped

0:07:04 > 0:07:06at a Labour event in 2011 when she was 19.

0:07:06 > 0:07:10She told the BBC's Carolyn Quinn that when she approached an official

0:07:10 > 0:07:12at Party HQ she was warned of the consequences

0:07:12 > 0:07:13of making an allegation.

0:07:13 > 0:07:22Here's Nick Watt.

0:07:22 > 0:07:27We don't know anything about the pepper rater -- perpetrator. What

0:07:27 > 0:07:40can you tell us about the attack? What we know about the perpetrator

0:07:40 > 0:07:47is he was senior to Bex Bailey. And Bex Bailey approached a senior party

0:07:47 > 0:07:50official and was told you shouldn't report this, because this could

0:07:50 > 0:07:55damage your career. The Labour Party is to appoint an independent legal

0:07:55 > 0:08:00expert to look essentially at this allegation that the Labour Party was

0:08:00 > 0:08:06allegedly involved in a cover up of rape and this investigator will be

0:08:06 > 0:08:12looking at how this party official handled these allegations by Bex

0:08:12 > 0:08:16Bailey.There could of course be a criminal investigation?Indeed, but

0:08:16 > 0:08:21what this will be looking at is whether the proper procedures were

0:08:21 > 0:08:25followed by the Labour Party. I have been talking to friends and

0:08:25 > 0:08:33colleagues of Bex Bailey about her decision to speak out.

0:08:33 > 0:08:36I was seriously sexually assaulted at a Labour Party event by,

0:08:36 > 0:08:40it wasn't an MP, but someone who was more senior to me.

0:08:40 > 0:08:43It took me a while to summon up the courage to tell

0:08:43 > 0:08:46anyone in the party, but when I did I told a senior

0:08:46 > 0:08:53member of staff who told me that, or it was suggested to me that

0:08:53 > 0:08:57I not report it.

0:08:57 > 0:09:02I was told that if I did it might damage me.

0:09:02 > 0:09:05And it might be a genuine view, it might be that that was the case,

0:09:05 > 0:09:08in which case that shows that we have a serious problem

0:09:08 > 0:09:10in politics with this issue anyway.

0:09:10 > 0:09:13Bex Bailey is a widely admired Labour campaigner on women's

0:09:13 > 0:09:16rights and equalities.

0:09:16 > 0:09:19I first met her a few years ago on the general election campaign

0:09:19 > 0:09:23trail with her former boss, Liz Kendall.

0:09:23 > 0:09:26In recent days as attention focused on the culture at Westminster,

0:09:26 > 0:09:30Bex Bailey felt that it would be right to speak out in the hope

0:09:30 > 0:09:32of finally achieving a breakthrough in her long campaign to change

0:09:32 > 0:09:41the rules on the reporting of sexual harassment and sexual assault.

0:09:41 > 0:09:43Tonight I spoke to two of Bex Bailey's closest friends

0:09:43 > 0:09:49and colleagues in the Labour Party.

0:09:49 > 0:09:53The main thing she is calling for and others too is

0:09:53 > 0:09:55that the Labour Party has an independent third

0:09:55 > 0:10:01party reporting system.

0:10:01 > 0:10:04So that women can have the confidence that if they speak

0:10:04 > 0:10:10out there will be a real and proper change.

0:10:10 > 0:10:17Too often women are worried about speaking out because the person

0:10:17 > 0:10:20they may be reporting the assault, abuse or harassment to may work

0:10:20 > 0:10:23with the person they are accusing, may be a friend or a political

0:10:23 > 0:10:26ally of them.

0:10:26 > 0:10:30And you know, understandably, people within the party who work

0:10:30 > 0:10:35for the party don't want to see the party brought in to disrepute.

0:10:35 > 0:10:38But really they should be focusing on the women who have been subject

0:10:38 > 0:10:40to harassment or assault and that is why we need

0:10:40 > 0:10:46this independent system.

0:10:46 > 0:10:49She has been fighting for a better procedure to help people coming

0:10:49 > 0:10:51forward with complaints for a number of years.

0:10:51 > 0:10:55None of us knew her personal history in this and I think today all of us

0:10:55 > 0:10:57feel we have let her down.

0:10:57 > 0:11:00The party has let her down, things have to change.

0:11:00 > 0:11:03She gives an incredible example of why it is not good enough

0:11:03 > 0:11:05to have a hotline staffed by staff.

0:11:05 > 0:11:12You need an independent third-party reporting system.

0:11:12 > 0:11:15Bex is a strong, courageous, highly principled woman.

0:11:15 > 0:11:18She has always campaigned for equality and fairness

0:11:18 > 0:11:23in the party and in the country and I am beyond proud

0:11:23 > 0:11:28of her for having the strength and courage to come forward.

0:11:28 > 0:11:31She didn't want this story to be about her,

0:11:31 > 0:11:34she wanted it to be about women everywhere and I hope that

0:11:34 > 0:11:37as a result of her speaking out, it will give courage to others

0:11:37 > 0:11:39and it will give the Labour Party and other political parties

0:11:39 > 0:11:47the courage to change.

0:11:47 > 0:11:50Nick Watt there.

0:11:50 > 0:11:53The Labour Party issued a statement tonight saying it took Bex Bailey's

0:11:53 > 0:11:55allegations extremely seriously and would support anyone who had

0:11:55 > 0:12:01suffered sexual violence.

0:12:01 > 0:12:03It added that the party was launching an independent

0:12:03 > 0:12:06investigation into the claims and said it hoped the police

0:12:06 > 0:12:07would investigate.

0:12:07 > 0:12:08But is this enough?

0:12:08 > 0:12:11The Labour MP John Mann has been an outspoken critic of his party's

0:12:11 > 0:12:12record on handling such complaints.

0:12:12 > 0:12:18Helena Kennedy is a Labour peer and campaigner on social justice.

0:12:18 > 0:12:25You worked with Bex Bailey, did you know she had been raped.No, not

0:12:25 > 0:12:28until tonight.Presumably you were shocked?Of course, tremendous

0:12:28 > 0:12:36shock. Horrible to happen to anyone, but very courageous of her to speak

0:12:36 > 0:12:41out and for young women who had any kind of sexual assault, I think they

0:12:41 > 0:12:45will be taking some comfort and encouragement from the fact she has

0:12:45 > 0:12:50spoken out in such a public way. There is to be an investigation, do

0:12:50 > 0:12:56you know the identity of her attacker or the person she spoke to

0:12:56 > 0:13:03later, two years later about reporting it?No, I don't, but what

0:13:03 > 0:13:06it vital is she is in the control of situation and she has taken control

0:13:06 > 0:13:11of it and the Labour Party needs to be listening, you know, Bex Bailey

0:13:11 > 0:13:16was the person on the Labour Party national Executive who proposed

0:13:16 > 0:13:21systems for dealing with exactly this kind of thing when she was on

0:13:21 > 0:13:26the leadership under Ed Miliband and the Labour Party didn't accept her

0:13:26 > 0:13:30proposals. So the Labour Party's had a chance in the past to get its

0:13:30 > 0:13:34house in order, she knew what she was talking about and the Labour

0:13:34 > 0:13:46Party hasn't done so. Like all the other political parties.

0:13:46 > 0:13:52Is this the first time you have heard about a rape at Westminster?

0:13:52 > 0:14:00There are other allegations that I am aware of. They're not public yet.

0:14:00 > 0:14:05The allegations vary from rape to molestation is to inappropriate

0:14:05 > 0:14:13language. A wide variety. But lots of allegations.And people are

0:14:13 > 0:14:20coming forward now. What do you make of this now in the sense that there

0:14:20 > 0:14:23must be feeling that women feel safer about coming forward or

0:14:23 > 0:14:29feeling so angry that now they are prepared to come forward worse

0:14:29 > 0:14:34before as Bex Bailey said, she was told her career would suffer.

0:14:34 > 0:14:38Careers did suffer as we know that has been an inhibitor for women in

0:14:38 > 0:14:43many different sectors and not just politics. What is interesting to me,

0:14:43 > 0:14:49I have been writing about this for about 35 years. And the fact that it

0:14:49 > 0:14:53has taken so long to get this taken seriously as part of the problem

0:14:53 > 0:14:58because it is dealt with as being, there is add dismissiveness about

0:14:58 > 0:15:04this. Today in Parliament I heard already men saying this is going to

0:15:04 > 0:15:08give rise to all kinds of false allegations. That was the needed

0:15:08 > 0:15:13think that the next step, rather than saying this is disgraceful and

0:15:13 > 0:15:20we must do something was immediately to minimise it. The whole thing is

0:15:20 > 0:15:25that the immediate response and you get this coming from senior women as

0:15:25 > 0:15:35well, you just slap someone on the hand.But it is all degrees, a hand

0:15:35 > 0:15:40on me, whatever, it is that sense of entitlement.And it is about the

0:15:40 > 0:15:46permissiveness that allows any of this from the small amount which is

0:15:46 > 0:15:48sometimes men saying what were you doing last night with your boyfriend

0:15:48 > 0:15:55and crossing boundaries.In the case of Bex Bailey to have faith and

0:15:55 > 0:16:00investigation will change things and perhaps even deal with the

0:16:00 > 0:16:03perpetrator?Something has happened, we now have a generation of women

0:16:03 > 0:16:08who are not going to take it any more. Far more young women have gone

0:16:08 > 0:16:13through universities, far more who are saying enough is enough.But are

0:16:13 > 0:16:18the systems in place to deal with it and do you have faith that the

0:16:18 > 0:16:23leadership will sort this out?This systems are not in place at all the

0:16:23 > 0:16:28danger is, people go for something quick and let's get this behind us

0:16:28 > 0:16:40and move on because we don't like it. I sat during that statement when

0:16:40 > 0:16:45Parliament last discussed it, a very short discussion and it was all

0:16:45 > 0:16:51backslapping. I want to thank, I want to thank. The people who need

0:16:51 > 0:16:54planking of those women who have stood up and made complaints and

0:16:54 > 0:16:57often when they have made complaints they have not been listened to at

0:16:57 > 0:17:06all.In politics at Westminster are other places that women can go and

0:17:06 > 0:17:12talk?This idea of safeguarding? You have heard from a number of women

0:17:12 > 0:17:17Members of Parliament talking about the need for independent

0:17:17 > 0:17:20professional systems in place to report to the right person. For

0:17:20 > 0:17:24example I know from other walks of life because I've handled these

0:17:24 > 0:17:30kinds of cases, very often people are approached and have no training

0:17:30 > 0:17:35whatsoever. The person in the Labour Party that Bex Bailey went to, the

0:17:35 > 0:17:39chances are they had no idea one way or another how to handle such a

0:17:39 > 0:17:47situation. And institutions like Parliament or whatever, they always

0:17:47 > 0:17:52want to protect their reputation of the party, of the institution or

0:17:52 > 0:17:56whatever rather than protect the individual.You have faith in the

0:17:56 > 0:18:00Labour leadership to sort this out? I can tell you they will be put

0:18:00 > 0:18:01under the cosh.

0:18:01 > 0:18:05And our political editor Nick Watt is here.

0:18:05 > 0:18:11The current swirl of allegations which right across Westminster.Well

0:18:11 > 0:18:15we've had two ministers accused of inappropriate behaviour or language,

0:18:15 > 0:18:19so Michael Fallon and Mark Garnier in the past 24 hours. And Theresa

0:18:19 > 0:18:24May it is fair to say is appalled by these reports. She has spent 20

0:18:24 > 0:18:31years in Parliament trying to change the culture by promoting more women.

0:18:31 > 0:18:37In 2016 she was able to act when she was strong, she appointed her

0:18:37 > 0:18:40Cabinet, Stephen Crabb the Work and Pensions Secretary, she thought

0:18:40 > 0:18:44about reappointing him. He spent some hours in Downing Street with

0:18:44 > 0:18:49the Chief Whip and was unable to give assurances about allegations of

0:18:49 > 0:18:54sexually explicit texts and he was no longer in his position. Now with

0:18:54 > 0:18:59Mark Garnier Theresa May have referred the matter to the Cabinet

0:18:59 > 0:19:03Office, she has been told she needs to buy time. She cannot afford it

0:19:03 > 0:19:07and if one minister goes, the press will be after the next one and on it

0:19:07 > 0:19:10goes.

0:19:10 > 0:19:13For months social media companies including Facebook have been playing

0:19:13 > 0:19:16down concerns over fake news - and specifically about the role it

0:19:16 > 0:19:18may have played in last year's American election.

0:19:18 > 0:19:20But earlier today Facebook changed its tune -

0:19:20 > 0:19:22releasing a statement saying the company now believed Russians

0:19:22 > 0:19:24working for a company linked to the Kremlin,

0:19:24 > 0:19:26the Internet Research Agency, operatives posted roughly 80,000

0:19:26 > 0:19:29pieces of divisive inflammatory content between January 2015

0:19:29 > 0:19:35and August 2017 that reached as many as 126 million Americans.

0:19:35 > 0:19:38That's almost half of all Americans who are old enough to be

0:19:38 > 0:19:40allowed a Facebook profile.

0:19:40 > 0:19:48The Russian agents also uploaded more than a thousand videos

0:19:48 > 0:19:49of Google's Youtube service and bombarded Twitter.

0:19:49 > 0:19:52None of these companies has ever revealed the extent

0:19:52 > 0:19:54of Russian meddling before - but tonight representatives

0:19:54 > 0:19:56for the three companies were being grilled by

0:19:56 > 0:19:56a Congressional committee.

0:19:56 > 0:20:00Here's John Sweeney.

0:20:00 > 0:20:04Twitter, Facebook and Google on the hook, on the hill.

0:20:04 > 0:20:08Tonight three tech megaliths were called to account in Washington, DC.

0:20:08 > 0:20:13The charge against them, that they don't do enough

0:20:13 > 0:20:17to protect their platforms from being used by those who might

0:20:17 > 0:20:20want to warp American democracy.

0:20:20 > 0:20:22I think you do enormous good.

0:20:22 > 0:20:30But your power sometimes scares me.

0:20:30 > 0:20:32Did China run ads in the last election cycle to try

0:20:32 > 0:20:35to impact our election?

0:20:35 > 0:20:40Not that I'm aware of, Senator.

0:20:40 > 0:20:42Not that you're aware of?

0:20:42 > 0:20:45Did Turkmenistan?

0:20:45 > 0:20:49No, Senator, not that I'm aware of.

0:20:49 > 0:20:52How about North Korea?

0:20:52 > 0:20:55The answer is, Facebook doesn't know.

0:20:55 > 0:20:59After Trump's victory, Facebook boss Mark Zuckerberg

0:20:59 > 0:21:03rubbished the very idea that ads on his site had snow on their boots,

0:21:03 > 0:21:05as fake news and crazy.

0:21:05 > 0:21:09That was then.

0:21:09 > 0:21:12Now Facebook says that Russian sources placed thousands of ads that

0:21:12 > 0:21:16reached 126 million American users.

0:21:16 > 0:21:22But fixing the problem needs humans, and they don't come cheap.

0:21:22 > 0:21:32At Facebook you have algorithms that do the first run and humans that it

0:21:39 > 0:21:41kicks to a set of humans to look at it.

0:21:41 > 0:21:44I understand that you have increased the number of humans who to look

0:21:44 > 0:21:46at these kind of things.

0:21:46 > 0:21:47Can you explain the process you have?

0:21:47 > 0:21:50With respect to the sort of what I will call

0:21:50 > 0:21:52the particularised threat actors that are typically associated

0:21:52 > 0:21:54with nation states, that is a highly manual process.

0:21:54 > 0:21:56So we won't for example have a threat indicator

0:21:56 > 0:21:59that we are tracking and then if we see activity, that is really

0:21:59 > 0:22:01a highly intensive manual effort.

0:22:01 > 0:22:08This is the moment when Facebook, roughly worth $500 million,

0:22:08 > 0:22:10Google 700 billion and Twitter around 15 billion, face

0:22:10 > 0:22:13much tougher scrutiny.

0:22:13 > 0:22:17But why are the tech giants in trouble?

0:22:17 > 0:22:20I think if there is one great take away already from the Russian

0:22:20 > 0:22:22controversy in the US, is that it has really shone

0:22:22 > 0:22:31a light on the way social media companies operate.

0:22:31 > 0:22:33These sort of dark ads, these sort of bots, accounts

0:22:33 > 0:22:35who don't know who is behind them.

0:22:35 > 0:22:36And finally all this is coming out.

0:22:36 > 0:22:39The way the Russians seem to have used Facebook and Twitter

0:22:39 > 0:22:42during the US elections, it doesn't seem to be a bug

0:22:42 > 0:22:45in the system, it is the system.

0:22:45 > 0:22:47We are finally understanding just how frankly deeply manipulative

0:22:47 > 0:22:50these companies are.

0:22:50 > 0:22:53How they override all our ideas of how democracy in public

0:22:53 > 0:22:59space should function.

0:22:59 > 0:23:08Did Russian agents buy this man's ticket to the White House?

0:23:08 > 0:23:11If so, is this hearing the start of a necessary revolution,

0:23:11 > 0:23:12bringing more scrutiny to the internet?

0:23:12 > 0:23:13Opinion is divided.

0:23:13 > 0:23:16Companies do not give a lot of intelligence directly to US

0:23:16 > 0:23:18investigators on a general basis.

0:23:18 > 0:23:21They have pledged to work more closely together in the future.

0:23:21 > 0:23:25But of course they don't want to set a precedent that could apply to them

0:23:25 > 0:23:34in other countries around the world, with maybe harsher rules.

0:23:34 > 0:23:40It is always going to be a dance with these companies,

0:23:40 > 0:23:42so much that their futures would be a lot more complicated.

0:23:42 > 0:23:43It is a huge change.

0:23:43 > 0:23:48Finally Silicon Valley has had to walk to the hill, to Capitol Hill.

0:23:48 > 0:23:51This is a very big moment, almost as if Silicon Valley

0:23:51 > 0:23:58and all its ethics are on trial.

0:23:58 > 0:24:02Again the public awareness that will come out of this and is coming

0:24:02 > 0:24:05out of this about the way these platforms spread messages, influence

0:24:05 > 0:24:08us, is massively important.

0:24:08 > 0:24:15And will I hope have to change the essence of how they function.

0:24:15 > 0:24:18But today's hearing and yesterday's charges against three men in team

0:24:18 > 0:24:20Trump together harden the evidence that President Trump's

0:24:20 > 0:24:28election victory was, in part, made in Moscow.

0:24:28 > 0:24:31So where does all of this leave the technology firms -

0:24:31 > 0:24:33and could this increase calls for them to be subjected

0:24:33 > 0:24:37to more regulation?

0:24:37 > 0:24:40Thomas Rid is Professor of security studies in the department of war

0:24:40 > 0:24:41at Kings College in London.

0:24:41 > 0:24:45He himself gave evidence earlier this year to a congressional

0:24:45 > 0:24:47committee on Russian influence over political campaigns.

0:24:47 > 0:24:53He joins us from Washington.

0:24:53 > 0:24:59Can we deal with Facebook first, are you surprised by the scale of what

0:24:59 > 0:25:03happened on Facebook and how much do you think Facebook knew about what

0:25:03 > 0:25:09was going on?In a way I'm not surprised by the scale of what we

0:25:09 > 0:25:15have seen but I think we're past the point where we can talk about these

0:25:15 > 0:25:21companies in one sweep. Facebook and Twitter, you're dealing with a

0:25:21 > 0:25:23problem in different ways. The market is pushing Twitter towards

0:25:23 > 0:25:29hiding the problem, the market is pushing Facebook towards fixing the

0:25:29 > 0:25:33problem and I think that is important to understand.In that

0:25:33 > 0:25:42case then is Twitter in more trouble than Facebook is absolutely, I think

0:25:42 > 0:25:45Twitter is in a lot more trouble than Facebook but so far we have not

0:25:45 > 0:25:47fully come to terms with how much automated abuse activity was

0:25:47 > 0:25:51happening on Twitter put up consider the following question, how many of

0:25:51 > 0:25:57the likes and retweet that the real Donald Trump account received during

0:25:57 > 0:26:00the election campaign where actually human as opposed to machine

0:26:00 > 0:26:10generated.The answer is we do not know. And the unpleasant truth is

0:26:10 > 0:26:13even Twitter may not fully have the answer to that question because they

0:26:13 > 0:26:21do not keep data.When you look at the kind of material that this

0:26:21 > 0:26:26intranet research agency was pushing out there, stuff on race, religion,

0:26:26 > 0:26:33gun rights, transgender issues, will we ever really know the impact that

0:26:33 > 0:26:41that had on voting intentions?That is a very difficult thing to come to

0:26:41 > 0:26:44terms with. This question of what was the actual impact. Let's focus

0:26:44 > 0:26:54on what happened for a moment. Facebook had a clear policy, one

0:26:54 > 0:26:58face, one name and they want real names on the platform. Twitter has a

0:26:58 > 0:27:03different policy, it is OK to have an anonymous account many accounts

0:27:03 > 0:27:09at the same time. So in some ways Twitter the perfect disinformation

0:27:09 > 0:27:13that form. Ultimately think about this, Twitter is affording the same

0:27:13 > 0:27:20level of privacy protection to Russian robot networks run by

0:27:20 > 0:27:26foreign intelligence agencies Debbie Ford a -year-old teenager writing

0:27:26 > 0:27:31under their real name at home.On the question of Facebook and Mark

0:27:31 > 0:27:35Zuckerberg denied this for so long are we now have a situation where

0:27:35 > 0:27:39they smoke and make sure that a lot of the child molestation stuff does

0:27:39 > 0:27:44not reach a lot of the, the more violent stuff does not reach the

0:27:44 > 0:27:47page. They say they're just a conduit but they are a publisher and

0:27:47 > 0:27:51is the publisher they accept that they're moving in that direction and

0:27:51 > 0:27:54they will have to clean up their act to make sure all those fake stuff

0:27:54 > 0:27:58does not actually go on the same page as some of the real stuff or

0:27:58 > 0:28:03else there will be a much more trouble.The publishing of

0:28:03 > 0:28:10information, the problem cuts deeper than that. Right now we're in a

0:28:10 > 0:28:15situation where Facebook and even more so publish information that

0:28:15 > 0:28:20ships -- shapes the news, shaped democracy, shapes history. Because

0:28:20 > 0:28:25these companies take privacy protection seriously, were also in a

0:28:25 > 0:28:29situation where users including intelligence agencies from foreign

0:28:29 > 0:28:35countries, can remove content and retrospectively edit the news and

0:28:35 > 0:28:40added the way we perceive our history. That is a deep

0:28:40 > 0:28:45contradiction at the heart of an open democracy and not just social

0:28:45 > 0:28:49media.Thank you very much for joining us.

0:28:49 > 0:28:51What London does not need is more penthouses,

0:28:51 > 0:28:53but more regular affordable houses - that's Siddiq Kahn's plan.

0:28:53 > 0:28:55He wants to quadruple new affordable homes

0:28:55 > 0:28:58from from 11,000 a year to 44,000, but he has precious little power

0:28:58 > 0:29:01to to make it happen - even though he's the mayor

0:29:01 > 0:29:02of the world's great capitals.

0:29:02 > 0:29:04In fact almost half a million families now share

0:29:04 > 0:29:06with other families such is the housing shortage.

0:29:06 > 0:29:08But right across Britain there are obstacles to building

0:29:08 > 0:29:12affordable housing - some put there by complex

0:29:12 > 0:29:15planning regulations, but others by developers themselves

0:29:15 > 0:29:18- ones that allow them to wriggle out of their obligations

0:29:18 > 0:29:20to build affordable homes on every new development.

0:29:20 > 0:29:27Our policy editor Chris Cook has this.

0:29:27 > 0:29:30Where better to begin thinking about homes than the most famous

0:29:30 > 0:29:37publicly funded housing in the country?

0:29:37 > 0:29:42The cost of housing is one of England's critical problems.

0:29:42 > 0:29:45It's something the government is very sorely aware of.

0:29:45 > 0:29:47Affordable housing rules, one of their key levers

0:29:47 > 0:29:50for trying to mitigate it.

0:29:50 > 0:29:52The thing about housing policy is that, just like this

0:29:52 > 0:30:00location, not everything is as it first appears.

0:30:00 > 0:30:01Affordable housing is a home deliberately offered

0:30:01 > 0:30:06at below market rates.

0:30:06 > 0:30:08So it includes social housing, but also stuff

0:30:08 > 0:30:10like shared equity housing.

0:30:10 > 0:30:13About half of the flow of new affordable homes are built

0:30:13 > 0:30:15by private developers, who have to include them

0:30:15 > 0:30:19in new developments.

0:30:19 > 0:30:22So in London say, if you develop a plot of more than ten homes,

0:30:22 > 0:30:26it is expected that at least 35% of them should be affordable homes.

0:30:26 > 0:30:33And in some circumstances and in some boroughs, half.

0:30:33 > 0:30:39Sometimes you get a bit less housing than you might expect.

0:30:39 > 0:30:44Our affordable housing rules contain a concept known as viability.

0:30:44 > 0:30:46Developers are expected to make a profit, usually about 20%

0:30:46 > 0:30:51of the total sale value of the site.

0:30:51 > 0:30:53And if they can't meet that benchmark, then

0:30:53 > 0:30:55they are allowed to cut the amount of affordable housing

0:30:55 > 0:30:58they are obliged to offer.

0:30:58 > 0:31:00This is a process that Shelter, the housing charity,

0:31:00 > 0:31:06believe is undermining our affordable housing policy.

0:31:06 > 0:31:10The viability loophole is actually enshrined in law and it means that

0:31:10 > 0:31:13if a developer believes they cannot make enough profit out

0:31:13 > 0:31:16of a development they can completely opt out of building

0:31:16 > 0:31:21the affordable homes element.

0:31:21 > 0:31:24No matter what the council policy on affordable homes states.

0:31:24 > 0:31:26And this was brought in during the crash,

0:31:26 > 0:31:28the financial crash, because it was felt that

0:31:28 > 0:31:31unless something was done to protect profits, houses just

0:31:31 > 0:31:34wouldn't be built.

0:31:34 > 0:31:38But obviously, you know, we're not in that situation now.

0:31:38 > 0:31:40How big a deal is all of this?

0:31:40 > 0:31:44Well there's a little complication here.

0:31:44 > 0:31:46Sometimes developers pay a sum in lieu of providing

0:31:46 > 0:31:49affordable housing on site.

0:31:49 > 0:31:51But a viability assessment always mean less investment

0:31:51 > 0:31:55in affordable housing.

0:31:55 > 0:31:57Let's take this example from the Royal Borough

0:31:57 > 0:32:01of Kensington and Chelsea.

0:32:01 > 0:32:02Developers have permission to turn the building

0:32:02 > 0:32:05behind me into 25 homes.

0:32:05 > 0:32:07And according to the local affordable housing quotas,

0:32:07 > 0:32:12half of them should be affordable.

0:32:12 > 0:32:17In practice, because of the viability loophole, none will be.

0:32:17 > 0:32:21All the developers are going to do is pay the council £200,000.

0:32:21 > 0:32:25The thing is, the house-builders have a point.

0:32:25 > 0:32:30Some sites can't support lots of affordable homes.

0:32:30 > 0:32:32You can't have a rigid quota for affordable housing

0:32:32 > 0:32:34because all sites have different costs associated with them.

0:32:34 > 0:32:38Imagine redeveloping an old gasworks.

0:32:38 > 0:32:42You would have to clean up the land before you could build houses on it.

0:32:42 > 0:32:45And that would have a different cost to it to where you didn't

0:32:45 > 0:32:46have to do that work.

0:32:46 > 0:32:48It would mean that some sites were totally unviable

0:32:48 > 0:32:51for development, which means that you would end up with fewer

0:32:51 > 0:33:00houses, when we need more.

0:33:00 > 0:33:02But we should be looking at this issue, because the net

0:33:02 > 0:33:06effect is quite big.

0:33:06 > 0:33:09In the last year alone, viability was used to strike out the need

0:33:09 > 0:33:10for 1000 affordable homes from planning permissions

0:33:10 > 0:33:12granted in Birmingham.

0:33:12 > 0:33:14And the council got just £5 million in lieu of that.

0:33:14 > 0:33:17In Manchester it was used to strike out the need for 472 affordable

0:33:17 > 0:33:22homes and the council got no money.

0:33:22 > 0:33:23In Bristol, viability claimed 196 affordable homes

0:33:23 > 0:33:26and they got just £131,000.

0:33:26 > 0:33:29Across 11 local authorities, Shelter found 2500 affordable homes

0:33:29 > 0:33:33struck out in one year.

0:33:33 > 0:33:37Now let's suppose I'm a developer who has decided to do a bit of work

0:33:37 > 0:33:39on this rather undesirable bit of Brownfield land

0:33:39 > 0:33:45in central London.

0:33:45 > 0:33:48And let's say I work out that I can make a decent profit

0:33:48 > 0:33:50and deliver affordable housing, so long as I don't spend

0:33:50 > 0:33:55more than £10 million on this grotty little plot.

0:33:55 > 0:33:59The thing is, I also know that if I spent more than £10 million,

0:33:59 > 0:34:02the council will tell me I don't have to build as much

0:34:02 > 0:34:05affordable housing.

0:34:05 > 0:34:08So the viability assessment process encourages me

0:34:08 > 0:34:10to spend more money on land, which fuels land price inflation

0:34:10 > 0:34:15and it does so at the expense of affordable housing.

0:34:15 > 0:34:18Frankly, it's simply wrong that in Britain in 2017,

0:34:18 > 0:34:22where it is not exactly difficult to make a profit out of building

0:34:22 > 0:34:25homes, we are effectively underwriting developers' profits

0:34:25 > 0:34:31by sacrificing the affordable homes that people desperately need.

0:34:31 > 0:34:36Because we're in the grip an acute housing crisis.

0:34:36 > 0:34:40I think that we should be questioning why we are dependent

0:34:40 > 0:34:42on private sector cross subsidy to provide over half

0:34:42 > 0:34:45of the affordable housing that we provide in this country.

0:34:45 > 0:34:48There must be a better way.

0:34:48 > 0:34:51What it does is it drives up the cost of land and it drives

0:34:51 > 0:34:54up the cost of houses.

0:34:54 > 0:34:56This whole system exists to avoid having the state raise

0:34:56 > 0:35:00and spend money directly on affordable housing.

0:35:00 > 0:35:07But the consequences of this are not good for anyone.

0:35:07 > 0:35:08Chris Cook there.

0:35:08 > 0:35:11Earlier today I spoke to the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan,

0:35:11 > 0:35:13in the lush surroundings of City Hall.

0:35:13 > 0:35:15He fought his mayoral campaign with housing

0:35:15 > 0:35:21issues front and centre, and I wanted to know what he meant

0:35:21 > 0:35:27by the term "affordable housing".

0:35:27 > 0:35:30I mean one of three things.

0:35:30 > 0:35:32One is a home where you pay a social rent -

0:35:32 > 0:35:34think of it as a council property.

0:35:34 > 0:35:37Two, it's a home where you pay a London living rent.

0:35:37 > 0:35:41That's a third of average local earnings, or, three,

0:35:41 > 0:35:46it's what I called shared ownership - part-buy and part-rent.

0:35:46 > 0:35:48But actually for too many years now, the homes

0:35:48 > 0:35:51that have been deemed affordable, the few that have, aren't really

0:35:51 > 0:35:52affordable.

0:35:52 > 0:35:54I'm saying to developers, I'm saying to local

0:35:54 > 0:35:57authorities, my expectation is if you want me to approve an

0:35:57 > 0:35:59application, I want a certain percentage to be affordable and by

0:35:59 > 0:36:02affordable I mean how I define it, rather than the previous dodgy

0:36:02 > 0:36:08definition.

0:36:08 > 0:36:11You want to go from 29,000 new homes in London to 66,000

0:36:11 > 0:36:15and you want 65% of them to be affordable, whereas just now it is

0:36:15 > 0:36:16only 38%.

0:36:16 > 0:36:17By when and by what measure?

0:36:17 > 0:36:22So we have looked at London's population, currently 8.7

0:36:22 > 0:36:27million, by 2029, 2030 at 10 million.

0:36:27 > 0:36:32So we have worked out what the needs of our city are - both

0:36:32 > 0:36:35annually, what percentage should be affordable

0:36:35 > 0:36:37and the expert advice is we will

0:36:37 > 0:36:39need over the next period, every year, 66,000 homes

0:36:39 > 0:36:40over the next 20 years and a

0:36:40 > 0:36:42significant number of those need to be affordable.

0:36:42 > 0:36:45I can't deliver that unless the Government steps in and

0:36:45 > 0:36:48gives us the support we need.

0:36:48 > 0:36:50So Kensington and Chelsea, the development of 25 homes, half are

0:36:50 > 0:36:53meant to be affordable, none is and the developers simply

0:36:53 > 0:36:54handed over £200,000 to the council.

0:36:54 > 0:36:58How did they get away with that?

0:36:58 > 0:37:01There are many examples I'm afraid of local authorities

0:37:01 > 0:37:02being hoodwinked by developers.

0:37:02 > 0:37:05A number of things, firstly, a developer will

0:37:05 > 0:37:08come along during the course of a construction being built and say,

0:37:08 > 0:37:09"You know what?

0:37:09 > 0:37:11It's no longer viable to build this small numbers of

0:37:11 > 0:37:15affordable homes we have agreed to," and the council, for a number of

0:37:15 > 0:37:16reasons, firstly because they may lack

0:37:16 > 0:37:17the expertise to test the

0:37:17 > 0:37:19viability report, two, because they're just soft

0:37:19 > 0:37:21and they're happy to be rolled over, will allow a

0:37:21 > 0:37:27developer to reduce the number of affordable homes.

0:37:27 > 0:37:36Will you insist that people release brownfield sites?

0:37:36 > 0:37:39I'm lobbying the Government to get more power of compulsory purchase.

0:37:39 > 0:37:42I've set up a new scheme to allow councils to borrow to

0:37:42 > 0:37:43assemble land around brownfield sites.

0:37:43 > 0:37:45That can often free up big pieces of land.

0:37:45 > 0:37:48We saw one example last year, but I want the power,

0:37:48 > 0:37:50particularly relating to surplus land, relating to to brownfield

0:37:50 > 0:37:52sites to build the homes we need as a city.

0:37:52 > 0:37:55But the truth is without government say so you have no power.

0:37:55 > 0:37:57Absolutely, we're the most centralised democracy

0:37:57 > 0:37:58in the western world.

0:37:58 > 0:38:00When I compare my powers to the powers of

0:38:00 > 0:38:03the mayor of New York, the mayor of Tokyo, other

0:38:03 > 0:38:05mayors of great cities, I've got limited powers, but also

0:38:05 > 0:38:08Londoners have far fewer powers and far fewer say

0:38:08 > 0:38:12than Parisians or New Yorkers.

0:38:12 > 0:38:14You're one of most, the most powerful directly elected

0:38:14 > 0:38:16politician in this country, and you can't

0:38:16 > 0:38:16persuade Jeremy Corbyn of

0:38:16 > 0:38:19either complete adherence to the single market or indeed a second

0:38:19 > 0:38:26referendum on a deal.

0:38:26 > 0:38:29Well, two things.

0:38:29 > 0:38:33Firstly, Jeremy Corbyn's made it quite clear, nothing's off

0:38:33 > 0:38:36the table and I welcome that announcement from Jeremy Corbyn,

0:38:36 > 0:38:37Keir Starmer and John McDonnell.

0:38:37 > 0:38:39But, secondly, Jeremy Corbyn's not the person

0:38:39 > 0:38:40negotiating with the greatest

0:38:40 > 0:38:42respect, much as I would like him to, with Europe.

0:38:42 > 0:38:43Theresa May and David Davis are.

0:38:43 > 0:38:46You could put a bit of pressure on, for goodness sake,

0:38:46 > 0:38:47you're mayor of London.

0:38:47 > 0:38:49And I'm and I meet Theresa May and David

0:38:49 > 0:38:50Davis regularly...

0:38:50 > 0:38:53I mean pressure on Jeremy Corbyn to come and say,

0:38:53 > 0:38:55everything's on the table, nothing's off the table,

0:38:55 > 0:38:58but why can't you get him to commit to staying within the

0:38:58 > 0:39:01single market and a second referendum on the deal?

0:39:01 > 0:39:04Well, Jeremy Corbyn's been quite clear during the

0:39:04 > 0:39:07transitional deal, we want to stay members of single market, stay

0:39:07 > 0:39:11members of customs union, give a cast iron guarantee to those who

0:39:11 > 0:39:15live in our country that are EU citizens are a huge asset to our

0:39:15 > 0:39:16country.

0:39:16 > 0:39:19But the reality is as much as I would like and the country

0:39:19 > 0:39:22would do better with Jeremy Corbyn negotiating with Michel

0:39:22 > 0:39:24Barnier and the European Union than Theresa May and

0:39:24 > 0:39:27David Davis and I meet regularly with David Davis.

0:39:27 > 0:39:28Actually it might not make much difference

0:39:28 > 0:39:29for you.

0:39:29 > 0:39:32Oh, it absolutely would and I will tell you why, because there

0:39:32 > 0:39:34would be a cast iron guarantee to those Londoners,

0:39:34 > 0:39:37and there are one million who are EU citizens and are

0:39:37 > 0:39:40not sure about their future, 3.3 million across the country are not

0:39:40 > 0:39:42sure about their future, they get the cast iron guarantee today.

0:39:42 > 0:39:45We would have more certainty in relation to the transitional deal.

0:39:45 > 0:39:48There wouldn't be a cliff edge fall in March 2019 and also our party's

0:39:48 > 0:39:50not divided and split like the Tories.

0:39:50 > 0:39:53So we would be united behind our Prime Minister and negotiators,

0:39:53 > 0:39:55Keir Starmer, to get a good deal for our country.

0:39:55 > 0:39:57How concerned are you about the atmosphere at

0:39:57 > 0:39:58Westminster?

0:39:58 > 0:40:01We now know of course that there is a list of MPs and so

0:40:01 > 0:40:03forth, how do you react to that?

0:40:03 > 0:40:06Well, I think the place where laws are made in our country, you know

0:40:06 > 0:40:10the mother of all Parliaments, should be a beacon for how to behave

0:40:10 > 0:40:11and conduct yourselves.

0:40:11 > 0:40:12Whether you're a politician, whether you're

0:40:12 > 0:40:15a member of staff, whether you're a lobby journalist, you should be

0:40:15 > 0:40:18treated with dignity.

0:40:18 > 0:40:20You probably heard Jess Phillips, the MP, talking

0:40:20 > 0:40:23about on the left, the Labour left, being very prone and guilty of

0:40:23 > 0:40:27misogyny.

0:40:27 > 0:40:29I think the Labour Party is probably as bad as other

0:40:29 > 0:40:31political parties.

0:40:31 > 0:40:33I think most institutions are not great at

0:40:33 > 0:40:36dealing with concerns people have around all sorts of behaviours that

0:40:36 > 0:40:37is unacceptable - whether it is sexist,

0:40:37 > 0:40:41whether it is racist, whether it is homophobic.

0:40:41 > 0:40:43We're in a situation now where we have got a

0:40:43 > 0:40:45government minister who doesn't deny getting his assistant to buy

0:40:45 > 0:40:47sex toys.

0:40:47 > 0:40:47Should he be sacked?

0:40:47 > 0:40:49Yes.

0:40:49 > 0:40:51If he worked for me, he would be sacked.

0:40:51 > 0:40:59Sadiq Khan, thank you very much.

0:40:59 > 0:41:06The times has a story which seems to drag Damian Green into the

0:41:06 > 0:41:15Westminster abuse scandal. In the last few moments Downing Street said

0:41:15 > 0:41:21they're referring Mr Green to the cabinet Secretary.

0:41:21 > 0:41:23That's it for tonight.

0:41:23 > 0:41:26We leave you with news of the death at the age of 90 of legendary

0:41:26 > 0:41:27Trade Unionist Derek Robinson.

0:41:27 > 0:41:30Dubbed Red Robbo by the capitalist press, he became famous,

0:41:30 > 0:41:32And infamous, as the shop steward at the British Leyland Longbridge

0:41:32 > 0:41:36site in the 1970s who led the car workers out in a seemingly endless

0:41:36 > 0:41:37series of strikes.

0:41:37 > 0:41:40It made him a hero of the left, but the bogey man of the right,

0:41:40 > 0:41:42and immortalised the company as the butt of endless

0:41:42 > 0:41:45Saturday Night dad jokes on the BBC by the Two Ronnies -

0:41:45 > 0:41:46like this one.

0:41:46 > 0:41:47Goodnight.

0:41:47 > 0:41:50We've just heard that British Leyland strikers have been fitting

0:41:50 > 0:41:52silencers to motor horns - and now the cars don't

0:41:52 > 0:41:54give a hoot either.

0:41:54 > 0:41:56That's all we've got time for so it's good night from me...

0:41:56 > 0:41:58And it's good night from him.

0:41:58 > 0:42:02Good night.