0:00:11 > 0:00:14We are showing a plane that has just arrived back at Heathrow. We cannot
0:00:14 > 0:00:19be sure she is on board. If she is, she may look out of her window and a
0:00:19 > 0:00:22couple of helicopters and realised that her arrival is much
0:00:22 > 0:00:22anticipated.
0:00:22 > 0:00:25It was a long flight back for Priti Patel.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28The joke was that she was soon to be duty free on her return.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30After a day that made the Thick of It look
0:00:30 > 0:00:35like The Churchill Diaries, Priti Patel finally resigned.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37Was it even a form of Remainer revenge?
0:00:37 > 0:00:41If you go into how did Priti Patel's visit get leaked in the first place,
0:00:41 > 0:00:44was it leaked by the Foreign Office, was it leaked by somebody
0:00:44 > 0:00:48in the Foreign Office who resented her and probably
0:00:48 > 0:00:49the Foreign Secretary, as well, and Brexit,
0:00:49 > 0:00:59you may well find something.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Is this government capable of anything other than political drama?
0:01:01 > 0:01:04And I'm in Washington a year on from the night Donald Trump
0:01:04 > 0:01:07was elected president: We're asking what we've learnt from the biggest
0:01:07 > 0:01:08political gamble the world has perhaps ever seen.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11And ahead of the next big race, we have been in Alabama. How do things
0:01:11 > 0:01:18look from there?The opinion of most people at any distance from Alabama
0:01:18 > 0:01:21is that we are ignorant and prejudiced. Most of that is
0:01:21 > 0:01:29justified!You really think that? Yes.And does he exemplify that?He
0:01:29 > 0:01:34preys on it.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36Hello.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39It was either a day to laugh at comedy politics:
0:01:39 > 0:01:42a slow-motion, transcontinental cabinet-sacking
0:01:42 > 0:01:44with a build up that played out on TV,
0:01:44 > 0:01:48the stuff that makes for a good week on Have I Got News For You.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Or it was a day to cry
0:01:50 > 0:01:52at a country with a distracted and dysfunctional government,
0:01:52 > 0:01:55and about to be hit by a freight train called Brexit.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59While political obsessives here enjoyed tracking
0:01:59 > 0:02:02Priti Patel's Kenyan Airlines flight from Nairobi back to the UK,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05some on the continent, like the European Parliament's
0:02:05 > 0:02:08Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt, were warning that talks
0:02:08 > 0:02:09still remain very deadlocked.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13Meanwhile, the prominent Brexiteer Priti Patel herself,
0:02:13 > 0:02:15sacked from the cabinet, sits as a potentially vocal
0:02:15 > 0:02:19critic on the backbenches.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21Will that upset the delicate balance of hard and soft
0:02:21 > 0:02:25Brexit in the cabinet?
0:02:25 > 0:02:27Are we paralysed by a divided Government that can't muster
0:02:27 > 0:02:30a majority for either Brexit, soft or hard, let alone
0:02:30 > 0:02:33do anything else?
0:02:33 > 0:02:35Well, lots to talk about.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37First, here's Nick Watt on the day of drama.
0:02:37 > 0:02:43His film contains flash photography.
0:02:43 > 0:02:50When you are weak and vulnerable, life can be, well, downright cruel.
0:02:50 > 0:02:59Out of the blue, you can be ensnared in a moment. Theresa May has
0:02:59 > 0:03:03thankfully not been eaten for dinner on a remote island. But Downing
0:03:03 > 0:03:08Street could be forgiven for wondering where the next danger is
0:03:08 > 0:03:11lurking. Priti Patel was forced to resign after her mishandling of a
0:03:11 > 0:03:19trip to Israel seemingly burst onto the scene from nowhere. So Priti
0:03:19 > 0:03:23Patel has just left Downing Street not through that door, but through
0:03:23 > 0:03:28the back door down there, after a 30 minute meeting with the Prime
0:03:28 > 0:03:31Minister in which she formally resigned as International
0:03:31 > 0:03:34Development Secretary. There then followed the ritual exchange of
0:03:34 > 0:03:38letters with a rather pointed remark from the Prime Minister saying, it
0:03:38 > 0:03:43is right that you decided to resign. Friends of Priti Patel say she still
0:03:43 > 0:03:48has leadership ambitions, but she will be taking time out, adopting a
0:03:48 > 0:03:52low profile. But she will be back in the new year for what they regard as
0:03:52 > 0:03:59the next chapter in her very live political career.I'm a fan of Priti
0:03:59 > 0:04:04Patel. I think she's done a good job at DFID as someone who was sceptical
0:04:04 > 0:04:08about some of the aid budget. She's good at communicating to people who
0:04:08 > 0:04:12are sceptical where aid budget has not been spent as well as it could
0:04:12 > 0:04:16have been. She's made changes where it is defensible, and she has given
0:04:16 > 0:04:23a strong defence. Clearly, it was a major mistake to do these meetings
0:04:23 > 0:04:27and not report them to the Foreign Office and not have officials. It is
0:04:27 > 0:04:31normal for ministers went on holiday to take some time out and do some
0:04:31 > 0:04:37official engagements. There are many countries to which if a cabinet
0:04:37 > 0:04:40minister went and did not pay a courtesy call, they would be
0:04:40 > 0:04:44offended.And who can blame Priti Patel for steering clear of the
0:04:44 > 0:04:49cameras to my? She had after all spent the best part of two days
0:04:49 > 0:04:56shuttling between Heathrow and Nairobi. It was the most eagerly
0:04:56 > 0:04:59awaited return flight to Heathrow since the Fab four flew in from
0:04:59 > 0:05:06their sell-out tours of America. Sadly, today these were not
0:05:06 > 0:05:10screaming fans, but journalists scenting prey. This may all have the
0:05:10 > 0:05:14feel of a Whitehall farce, but we are witnessing a Prime Minister
0:05:14 > 0:05:18struggling to hold together her government. It is exactly a week
0:05:18 > 0:05:21since Michael Fallon resigned as Defence Secretary and her effective
0:05:21 > 0:05:27deputy Damian Green is fighting for his political life.Theresa May has
0:05:27 > 0:05:31picked people that she believes need to be close to her. Some people say
0:05:31 > 0:05:35you have your enemies close to you. Whether that is the case or not, I
0:05:35 > 0:05:39will never know. But unfortunately, the people in her cabinets are out
0:05:39 > 0:05:44of control and it is really showing her up. She needs to sort it out.
0:05:44 > 0:05:48The sooner, the better for her, because the damage control at this
0:05:48 > 0:05:53point in time is serious.She's in a bad place. A senior editor who found
0:05:53 > 0:05:58himself at odds with Downing Street the Priti Patel visit Cisse
0:05:58 > 0:06:04government in difficulty, although not on the scale suggested by some.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07It's interesting, the parallel with the Suez crisis and the enviable
0:06:07 > 0:06:10month of the British government then. I think there is a more recent
0:06:10 > 0:06:13example, which is the John Major government. It is a similar sense of
0:06:13 > 0:06:20everything collapsing around it.A smiling Theresa May did have a brief
0:06:20 > 0:06:25outing today. This turned out to be her new waxwork at Madame Tussaud's.
0:06:25 > 0:06:29No doubt the real Prime Minister will be hoping that she too can
0:06:29 > 0:06:31regain her stride.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34Nick Watt missed one other item of government news:
0:06:34 > 0:06:37International Trade minister Mark Garnier apologised
0:06:37 > 0:06:40to his constituents for having asked his secretary to buy sex toys.
0:06:40 > 0:06:42He said the episode had been reported
0:06:42 > 0:06:44"outside the context in which it occurred".
0:06:44 > 0:06:45Funny old day.
0:06:45 > 0:06:50Well, Nick is with me.
0:06:50 > 0:06:54I have used the phrase sacked and resigned in the course of my
0:06:54 > 0:06:59introduction today. Which is the right one?I think this was a
0:06:59 > 0:07:03sacking dressed up as a resignation. I said last night that there was a
0:07:03 > 0:07:06feeling at the centre of government that if any more details emerge
0:07:06 > 0:07:10about this visit to Israel and the subsequent meetings that took place
0:07:10 > 0:07:13that had not been disclosed to the Prime Minister, there would be
0:07:13 > 0:07:16trouble. I suggested that there was one meeting they were concerned
0:07:16 > 0:07:22about, and details of that emerged today. Priti Patel met the Israeli
0:07:22 > 0:07:25security minister on the 7th of September in the House of Commons.
0:07:25 > 0:07:31That emerged today, and that message went down to Nairobi. It was
0:07:31 > 0:07:34basically over. So Priti Patel, in her letter, offered a fulsome
0:07:34 > 0:07:39apology to the Prime Minister, and this was the key line in the Prime
0:07:39 > 0:07:43Minister's letter to her, saying "Now that further details have come
0:07:43 > 0:07:47to light, it is right that you have decided to resign". We all know what
0:07:47 > 0:07:51that means - you have decided to leave my government.What happens
0:07:51 > 0:07:56now to Priti Patel? She is a backbencher now.Priti Patel is
0:07:56 > 0:07:58taking this in her stride
0:07:58 > 0:07:59backbencher now.Priti Patel is taking this in her stride. As she
0:07:59 > 0:08:04was flying back, a message went back to her supporters finger bash "Don't
0:08:04 > 0:08:09bother defending me, I know what is going to happen". I have known Priti
0:08:09 > 0:08:14Patel for 20 years. She is a very determined politician. She started
0:08:14 > 0:08:19her political career in the referendum party, the Jimmy
0:08:19 > 0:08:22Goldsmith Eurosceptic party. Then she worked for William Hague, made
0:08:22 > 0:08:26it to parliament and then made it to cabinet. My instinct is, her friends
0:08:26 > 0:08:29have told me she still has leadership ambitions, but she has a
0:08:29 > 0:08:34much bigger job to do which I think we will see her doing in the new
0:08:34 > 0:08:38year - the Guardian of Brexit. Look at the final line in her letter to
0:08:38 > 0:08:43the Prime Minister - "I will also speak up for our country, our
0:08:43 > 0:08:46national interests and the great future that Britain has as a free,
0:08:46 > 0:08:51independent and sovereign nation. " We have not heard the last of Priti
0:08:51 > 0:08:56Patel.Nick, thank you very much.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58A little earlier, I spoke to the leading Tory Brexitieer,
0:08:58 > 0:09:00Jacob Rees Mogg, darling of many activists.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02Now, last night, Nadhim Zahawi suggested on this programme
0:09:02 > 0:09:05that the focus on Priti Patel and Boris Johnson may be a sort
0:09:05 > 0:09:07of Remainer revenge motivated by Brexit divisions.
0:09:07 > 0:09:14Did Mr Rees Mogg think that?
0:09:14 > 0:09:16As a general rule, conspiracy theories are wrong.
0:09:16 > 0:09:20People aren't behaving according to some
0:09:20 > 0:09:23grand Marxist plan to overthrow the Government.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Nonetheless, there are some people who are still very bitter
0:09:27 > 0:09:30about the result a year ago, and inevitably,
0:09:30 > 0:09:31that colours their behaviour.
0:09:31 > 0:09:36So if you go into how did Priti Patel's visit
0:09:36 > 0:09:40come out in the first place, was it leaked by the Foreign Office,
0:09:40 > 0:09:43was it leaked by somebody in the Foreign Office
0:09:43 > 0:09:44who resented her and probably the Foreign Secretary's
0:09:44 > 0:09:46role in Brexit,
0:09:46 > 0:09:47you may find something.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50Does a Brexit Secretary of State have to be replaced by another
0:09:50 > 0:09:51Brexit-supporting Secretary of State?
0:09:51 > 0:09:55Is it one for one at the moment?
0:09:55 > 0:09:58I don't think so.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00I think there are many people within the Conservative Party
0:10:00 > 0:10:05who supported Remain who are now comfortably in favour of Brexit.
0:10:05 > 0:10:10If you take the appointment of Gavin Williamson, I thought
0:10:10 > 0:10:14that he had come to accept Brexit and was pushing, as Chief Whip,
0:10:14 > 0:10:16the bills through Parliament to implement Brexit.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20And although he was replacing a Remainer, I wouldn't have been
0:10:20 > 0:10:22in the least worried if somebody like Gavin Williamson had
0:10:22 > 0:10:24replaced a Brexiteer, because he's come round to it.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28There are, on the other hand, some Remainers who will never accept it.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31So if Kenneth Clarke were brought in to replace
0:10:31 > 0:10:34Priti Patel, I would think that was a bit extraordinary.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38But as long as it's somebody who has accepted that Brexit is happening
0:10:38 > 0:10:41and will support it properly and won't be a frightful Eeyore,
0:10:41 > 0:10:44I don't think there will be a problem.
0:10:44 > 0:10:46But aren't you underestimating the division?
0:10:46 > 0:10:48A lot of Remainers have accepted Brexit, but they don't necessarily
0:10:48 > 0:10:52accept your version of Brexit.
0:10:52 > 0:10:53No, that's true.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57There is a divide between people who want Brexit to mean
0:10:57 > 0:11:00we're basically staying within the European Union.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03They are essentially the Remainers who are unchanged and give
0:11:03 > 0:11:09a veneer of acceptance, but haven't truly accepted it.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12I think there are quite a lot of people who were quite evenly
0:11:12 > 0:11:15balanced when they made the decision as to which side to support,
0:11:15 > 0:11:17who are now enthusiastic about Brexit and want us to get
0:11:17 > 0:11:19on with it properly.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22And for you, it has to be one of those rather than one
0:11:22 > 0:11:23of the phoney converted...
0:11:23 > 0:11:24Absolutely.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26It has to be somebody who accepts Government
0:11:26 > 0:11:29policy and is enthusiastic about Government policy.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32Would you take a job as International Development Secretary?
0:11:32 > 0:11:34I'm not going to be offered!
0:11:34 > 0:11:36And it's a department that I have my doubts
0:11:36 > 0:11:42about in the first place.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45Is the Government in as big a mess as it looks at the moment?
0:11:45 > 0:11:46No, it isn't.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49If you look at the history of ministerial resignations,
0:11:49 > 0:11:52these happen to strong governments as much as they happen to
0:11:52 > 0:11:53governments with small majorities.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56Two in a week?
0:11:56 > 0:11:59Well, think back to the same person resigning twice under Tony Blair.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02Peter Mandelson was popping in and out of the Cabinet the whole time.
0:12:02 > 0:12:06Or Cecil Parkinson leaving Margaret Thatcher.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10These things do happen, and it's part of the life of politics.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12Politics is always changing.
0:12:12 > 0:12:13Things are emerging.
0:12:13 > 0:12:14Things happen.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18So no, I don't think it's a commentary on the state
0:12:18 > 0:12:22of the Government.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25So it's not, in your view, the divisions that are causing
0:12:25 > 0:12:26a sense of chaos in government.
0:12:26 > 0:12:27Is it the leader?
0:12:27 > 0:12:29It is not the Prime Minister's fault that
0:12:29 > 0:12:32while she's been Prime Minister, a sex scandal has erupted
0:12:32 > 0:12:33affecting all parties.
0:12:33 > 0:12:34She's getting on with the job.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37There is a clear path to Brexit.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39The bill is coming through Parliament.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42So I think it's easy to overstate the difficulties.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44Can we really go five years?
0:12:44 > 0:12:45Well, '74-79.
0:12:45 > 0:12:50Yes, of course we can.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53We're joined from Nottingham by the Conservative MP Anna Soubry,
0:12:53 > 0:12:54a fervent Remainer.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57Plus, to help us digest the day, the LBC presenter Iain Dale
0:12:57 > 0:13:03and the Times columnist Jenni Russell.
0:13:03 > 0:13:08Let me start with you, Anna Soubry. Two cabinet ministers gone in a
0:13:08 > 0:13:13week. What leads to happen now?The first thing that needs to happen is,
0:13:13 > 0:13:17you need to stop calling people like me a fervent Remainer. We have to
0:13:17 > 0:13:24move on. People like me have voted in accordance with the promise we
0:13:24 > 0:13:27made to our constituents that we would abide by and respect the
0:13:27 > 0:13:31result of the referendum. I voted against my conscience. I voted to
0:13:31 > 0:13:37trickle Article 50 out of respect and I am abiding by that promise. We
0:13:37 > 0:13:44have to change the language. We need to bring our country back together
0:13:44 > 0:13:49so that we form a consensus so that we can get the best Brexit for our
0:13:49 > 0:13:52country.But it is funny you say that, because one of the theories
0:13:52 > 0:13:56about this government is that it is paralysed by a division which is the
0:13:56 > 0:14:00old Brexit remain the vision now manifesting itself in those who are
0:14:00 > 0:14:04happy with no Deal and those who are not happy with no deal or any of the
0:14:04 > 0:14:08other arguments over Europe, and it can't get anything done. Or can get
0:14:08 > 0:14:14anything done until it resolves, whether it is the Anna Soubry bring
0:14:14 > 0:14:19in charge or the Jacob Rees Mogg wing?I don't accept that it is Anna
0:14:19 > 0:14:23Soubry and Jacob Rees Mogg. I think Jacob represents a small number of
0:14:23 > 0:14:29members of Parliament in my party, and then there is a huge swathe of
0:14:29 > 0:14:33other people in the Conservative Party and Parliament, Conservative
0:14:33 > 0:14:36members of Parliament who have accepted the result, and they want
0:14:36 > 0:14:40us to get on and get the best deal, and I am one of those. I accept that
0:14:40 > 0:14:45I want us to stay in the single market and the customs union, and
0:14:45 > 0:14:49not everybody agrees with me. But what is interesting and is
0:14:49 > 0:14:52unfortunately not often reported is that the consensus that is
0:14:52 > 0:14:55undoubtedly growing, and we saw it on Monday night, we had a good
0:14:55 > 0:15:03debate about the organisations, not reported by you unfortunately, and
0:15:03 > 0:15:13you didn't look who was speaking in favour of that.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18I hadn't meant to get into Brexit, that just happened. Sorry. What does
0:15:18 > 0:15:23Theresa May need to do now to eradicate this view of the
0:15:23 > 0:15:27government being indicate?First of all we have to say, as Jacob said,
0:15:27 > 0:15:31she had to take firm action with Michael Fallon last week. Sorry to
0:15:31 > 0:15:34see him go that it was absolutely the right thing. She didn't mess
0:15:34 > 0:15:40about as we now know, as you now know. Michael went within two hours
0:15:40 > 0:15:43of a complaint coming forward about his behaviour. Now we seen the
0:15:43 > 0:15:47action ever Priti Patel. I'm sorry she has had to go on a personal
0:15:47 > 0:15:52level. I hugely like her. She is exceptionally talented. I'm sure
0:15:52 > 0:15:58we've all seen the last of her. Now she has got to get her Cabinet, all
0:15:58 > 0:16:03of them, in a row, get them working together. You know my views on
0:16:03 > 0:16:07Boris, those are just mine. She brings them all together. We have
0:16:07 > 0:16:12got the Budget coming up. We have got the European Union talks in
0:16:12 > 0:16:15December. We've got an industrial strategy. That's going to be very
0:16:15 > 0:16:20positive. Good news. We need to just get on with it now. That's what
0:16:20 > 0:16:24people in the real world want. They are pretty cheesed off with people
0:16:24 > 0:16:28falling out and all of this sort of stuff, they want a government that
0:16:28 > 0:16:33is competent. Theresa May has that ability.Thank you very much.
0:16:33 > 0:16:34Let's died yesterday.
0:16:36 > 0:16:44-- lets digests the day.How long have we got?Are these really deep
0:16:44 > 0:16:48wounds?It is the mark of a government that doesn't know what it
0:16:48 > 0:16:52is doing and a Prime Minister that cannot control her Cabinet. We would
0:16:52 > 0:16:56have all been talking about Boris Johnson had it not been about Priti
0:16:56 > 0:17:01Patel today. He is endangering a British woman in Iran. She may face
0:17:01 > 0:17:04another five years in jail possibly because Boris Johnson could not be
0:17:04 > 0:17:11bothered to read his brief. It may seem like she cannot sack him
0:17:11 > 0:17:14because she's already lost two Cabinet ministers in a week and he
0:17:14 > 0:17:17represents a part of the party that she doesn't want to alienate
0:17:17 > 0:17:21further. Yet he is making Britain a laughing stock.It does come back to
0:17:21 > 0:17:25the divisions in the outcome to some extent, you think, because she is
0:17:25 > 0:17:29trying to keep this coalition together?It comes back to the
0:17:29 > 0:17:33divisions and the fact that he went to the country and said, I want a
0:17:33 > 0:17:37majority for a heart Brexit, didn't get it, misplaced her hand, now has
0:17:37 > 0:17:40persisted in acting as if the country has said, go ahead and carry
0:17:40 > 0:17:45on like you were last January. -- she went to the country. The country
0:17:45 > 0:17:49doesn't agree with her. She isn't powerful enough to enforce her views
0:17:49 > 0:17:54on the party or on Parliament.That is pretty damning.I don't think she
0:17:54 > 0:17:58can last.Am I living in a parallel universe? Probably. Most of that
0:17:58 > 0:18:03interview with Anna Soubry was about Brexit, not Priti Patel, most of
0:18:03 > 0:18:07what you said is about Brexit, and not Priti Patel.It is about the
0:18:07 > 0:18:10position of the government.How was Theresa May to be held responsible
0:18:10 > 0:18:15for Michael Fallon going or Priti Patel? There is nothing she could
0:18:15 > 0:18:19have done to bring Priti Patel into line and Abate ministerial...Isn't
0:18:19 > 0:18:27that the nature of the government... Is it divided? -- owed a
0:18:27 > 0:18:30ministerial...There are divisions in all political parties. Political
0:18:30 > 0:18:35parties are basically coalitions. You demonstrated it tonight with
0:18:35 > 0:18:40Anna Soubry and Jason Rees Mogg. For obvious reasons. You will go to the
0:18:40 > 0:18:43politicians at either extreme of the party to give their opinion and
0:18:43 > 0:18:47create further havoc. It's right for you to do that. But we shouldn't be
0:18:47 > 0:18:50surprised that any of these differences of opinion. That get
0:18:50 > 0:18:54real. This has happened today because Priti Patel ignored the
0:18:54 > 0:18:59ministerial code. It's as simple as that. It's the most clear-cut reason
0:18:59 > 0:19:06for a minister to be sacked. She was sacked. That's not...Layla she
0:19:06 > 0:19:15misled the Prime Minister. --she missed that the Prime Minister. Give
0:19:15 > 0:19:20Theresa May credit, she allowed her to leave with some dignity.Has any
0:19:20 > 0:19:23government that has looked as accident prone comeback and been
0:19:23 > 0:19:28through a period of serenity and stability? Can you think of one?Not
0:19:28 > 0:19:32that I can remember. The point was making was slightly different. It
0:19:32 > 0:19:34isn't that Theresa May is responsible for Michael Fallon or
0:19:34 > 0:19:39Priti Patel, although perhaps the fact Priti Patel felt she could be
0:19:39 > 0:19:43such a free agent is an example that the Cabinet pays less and less
0:19:43 > 0:19:46attention to the Prime Minister. Since she is already in that mess
0:19:46 > 0:19:50she cannot now afford to take powerful action against a minister
0:19:50 > 0:19:54not seem to be doing his job. Boris Johnson has been characterised by
0:19:54 > 0:19:57the Financial Times as the least distinguished Foreign Secretary
0:19:57 > 0:20:03since 1945. And who isn't on top of history. And is in danger of
0:20:03 > 0:20:08endangering our position in the world and in the Brexit talks.All
0:20:08 > 0:20:12of the papers are leading on it. Another day another crisis, the
0:20:12 > 0:20:19Telegraph. The turmoil grows as Priti Patel quits, in the Guardian.
0:20:19 > 0:20:25The Times fears that the Cabinet will collapse. Is this a collapsible
0:20:25 > 0:20:31government? -- at the Times, fears that the government will collapse.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35The Callaghan government lasted for five years. So did John Major. But
0:20:35 > 0:20:39this has an air of a John Major government about and where you have
0:20:39 > 0:20:43one crisis on top of another and one resignation on top of another. I
0:20:43 > 0:20:47think Theresa May's task now is to effectively lost until Christmas.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52We've got the Budget. You could the EU summit. Some pretty big hurdles
0:20:52 > 0:20:57coming her way. You have the Sue Gray report into Damian Green. If he
0:20:57 > 0:21:01was forced out, now, that's a real crisis. But we shall see. I don't
0:21:01 > 0:21:07know when that is coming out.Last question, asking for a friend, are
0:21:07 > 0:21:09the politicians who are running things now lower calibre than they
0:21:09 > 0:21:15were in the 1990s and the 1980s? Yes. I think that's true.They were
0:21:15 > 0:21:21better then than now?We did not think they were great them, but they
0:21:21 > 0:21:26were better. There was a raft of able people who came in as Tory MPs
0:21:26 > 0:21:30in 2010 and 2015 and 2017 and they are not getting their shot at
0:21:30 > 0:21:35government.They have only been there for two years.They are very
0:21:35 > 0:21:39impatient.You know how politics works. Tony Blair wouldn't have done
0:21:39 > 0:21:48that. There is a certain bit of old gittism here. Saying it wasn't like
0:21:48 > 0:21:54that in the 1970s.It wasn't.Let's leave it there. Thanks.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Well, it's a programme of two halves today,
0:21:56 > 0:21:57a transatlantic alliance
0:21:57 > 0:21:58because from the news here,
0:21:58 > 0:22:00it's over to a memorable anniversary in the US,
0:22:00 > 0:22:02and Emily is there.
0:22:02 > 0:22:02Good evening.
0:22:02 > 0:22:03Good evening from Washington.
0:22:03 > 0:22:08Donald Trump won the presidential election a year ago today:
0:22:08 > 0:22:11It has been divisive, it has been surreal, it has been like nothing we
0:22:11 > 0:22:18have ever seen.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20MUSIC: You're Welcome by Dwayne Johnson.
0:22:20 > 0:22:21# OK, OK.
0:22:21 > 0:22:22# I see what's happening
0:22:22 > 0:22:24# You're face-to face with greatness and it's strange.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27# You don't even know how you feel
0:22:27 > 0:22:31# It's adorable!
0:22:31 > 0:22:35From this day forward, it's going to be only America first.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39America first.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42CHEERING
0:22:46 > 0:22:49# What can I say except you're welcome...
0:22:49 > 0:22:52As you know, I have a running war with the media.
0:22:52 > 0:23:00# Hey, it's OK, it's OK, you're welcome...
0:23:00 > 0:23:03Are you sure Russia was behind hacking?
0:23:03 > 0:23:05They sort of made it sound like I had a feud
0:23:05 > 0:23:08with the intelligence community.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10It has nothing to do with Russia.
0:23:10 > 0:23:16Are you really, really sure?
0:23:16 > 0:23:21# So what can I say except you're welcome
0:23:21 > 0:23:25# For the islands I pulled from the sea
0:23:25 > 0:23:27# There's no need to pray, it's OK
0:23:27 > 0:23:29# You're welcome, ha!
0:23:29 > 0:23:32# I guess it's just my way of being me
0:23:32 > 0:23:33# You're welcome...
0:23:33 > 0:23:35Thank you, everybody.
0:23:35 > 0:23:40# Well, come to think of it...
0:23:43 > 0:23:47Oh, my God, oh, my God, people are badly hurt.
0:23:47 > 0:23:53Oh, my God.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display
0:23:55 > 0:24:01of hatred, bigotry and violence - on many sides.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05# Well, anyway, let me say you're welcome
0:24:05 > 0:24:08# For the wonderful world you know
0:24:08 > 0:24:12# Hey, it's OK, it's OK, you're welcome
0:24:12 > 0:24:16# Well, come to think of it, I got to go
0:24:16 > 0:24:19# Hey, it's OK to say you're welcome
0:24:19 > 0:24:22# Cos I'm gonna need that boat
0:24:22 > 0:24:26# I'm sailing away, away, you're welcome...
0:24:26 > 0:24:30The Russia story is a total fabrication.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32What the prosecutors should be looking at are Hillary Clinton's
0:24:32 > 0:24:3933,000 deleted e-mails.
0:24:39 > 0:24:40# And thank you!#.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51Candidly and was perhaps the biggest gamble the world has ever known.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55Donald Trump's election rocked the foundations of politics as we knew
0:24:55 > 0:25:01it. Even a year on it can still the heart and body. Tonight, 12 months
0:25:01 > 0:25:04on from the day America chose its new president we are back in
0:25:04 > 0:25:07Washington asking whether the gamble has paid off. How do those who put
0:25:07 > 0:25:12him in power think he is doing? Last I saw victories for the Democrats in
0:25:12 > 0:25:15Virginia and New Jersey. That doesn't spell the end of the Trump
0:25:15 > 0:25:18experiment but it does hint that his own Republican party is divided on
0:25:18 > 0:25:23how to win with him in power.
0:25:23 > 0:25:26We've been in the Deep South state of Alabama ahead of a critical
0:25:26 > 0:25:27senate election next month.
0:25:27 > 0:25:28In the primaries, the establishment candidate
0:25:28 > 0:25:32there was beaten by Roy Moore - a man who takes Trumpism now
0:25:32 > 0:25:34to new heights, who's backed by Steve Bannon and who's been
0:25:34 > 0:25:37accused of reopening the wounds of the state's racial past
0:25:37 > 0:25:47at a time when America is already intractably divided.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53Alabama is a state you rarely hear about
0:25:53 > 0:25:54on the presidential campaign trail.
0:25:54 > 0:25:58Its soul is deep, deep red.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01It hasn't seen a Democrat win here since Jimmy Carter in '76,
0:26:01 > 0:26:06yet now, suddenly, it's the talk of the town.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Next month's Senate election to replace Jeff Sessions,
0:26:08 > 0:26:10now Attorney General, is one of the weirdest races
0:26:10 > 0:26:13anyone has ever seen.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15And it poses the bigger question:
0:26:15 > 0:26:17Has the election of Donald Trump a year ago created
0:26:17 > 0:26:19a new normal for America?
0:26:19 > 0:26:22Evening rush hour in Selma, Alabama, is a gentle affair.
0:26:22 > 0:26:28No queues, no jams.
0:26:28 > 0:26:35But the noise, when it comes, is passionate.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38They're trying to get out the black vote for the Alabama Senate race
0:26:38 > 0:26:41next month, telling those willing to wind down their window
0:26:41 > 0:26:42how critical it is.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45One vote, sir, can make a difference.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48One vote can save lives.
0:26:48 > 0:26:55Faya Rose Toure was Alabama's first black female judge.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58We believe that December 12th is a life-and-death election.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01We truly believe, as statistics show, that one vote
0:27:01 > 0:27:04can make a difference.
0:27:04 > 0:27:06Selma's a birthplace of the civil rights movement.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09It was here in 1965 that Martin Luther King led demonstrators
0:27:09 > 0:27:17demanding suffrage on the 50 mile march into the state capital.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19On this bridge, they were beaten back like dogs by state troopers,
0:27:19 > 0:27:22violence sanctioned by Selma's mayor and governor.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24The bridge was named after the Confederate general
0:27:24 > 0:27:26Ku Klux Klan leader and, yes, Democratic senator
0:27:26 > 0:27:29Edmund Pettus, responsible for taking away the vote of black
0:27:29 > 0:27:32men in 1902.
0:27:32 > 0:27:34The fact that it still bears his name, says Faya,
0:27:34 > 0:27:37is a reminder that this is not a past struggle,
0:27:37 > 0:27:40but a very living one.
0:27:40 > 0:27:44We're trying to get people to understand that the people
0:27:44 > 0:27:47who support the Trump agenda will be running on December 12th,
0:27:47 > 0:27:48will be running next year.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51And it's extremely important that you stop all of the President's men,
0:27:51 > 0:27:58because he cannot carry forward this agenda without them.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01She will not say his name, but she means this man,
0:28:01 > 0:28:11Republican candidate for Senate, Roy Moore.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13Our foundation has been shaken.
0:28:13 > 0:28:14Crime, corruption, amorality, abortion, sodomy, sexual
0:28:14 > 0:28:17perversion, sweep our land.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20He's called for gay sex to be illegal, claimed parts of America
0:28:20 > 0:28:22already live under Sharia law.
0:28:22 > 0:28:26He believed Obama was a Muslim who was not US-born.
0:28:26 > 0:28:30Doug Jones is Moore's Democratic rival in the race.
0:28:30 > 0:28:32He is known for being soft spoken, but when I meet him,
0:28:32 > 0:28:37he doesn't hold back.
0:28:37 > 0:28:40What I think people in this country worry about is that Roy Moore
0:28:40 > 0:28:42will be the foreshadow of things to come.
0:28:42 > 0:28:43I think he divides people by race.
0:28:43 > 0:28:46I think he divides people by religion.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49I think he divides people by your sexual orientation.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53Unless you are a part of the population that he is OK
0:28:53 > 0:28:58with, he thinks you're a second-class citizen.
0:28:58 > 0:29:01Roy Moore is one of half a dozen candidates for Senate now backed
0:29:01 > 0:29:04by the former White House strategist Steve Bannon, the man nicknamed
0:29:04 > 0:29:08the brain behind Trump, the rump of the ideological right.
0:29:08 > 0:29:11And you're going to see in state after state after state,
0:29:11 > 0:29:14people who follow the model of Judge Moore that do not need
0:29:14 > 0:29:17to raise money from the elites, from the crony capitalists,
0:29:17 > 0:29:27from the fat cats in Washington, DC, New York City and Silicon Valley.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33A year on from the election of Donald Trump, we have
0:29:33 > 0:29:35all still got a lot of figuring out to do.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37Has he reset politics in his image?
0:29:37 > 0:29:40Will there be a major backlash to his style of governing?
0:29:40 > 0:29:43Or perhaps the question we are in town today to ask: has
0:29:43 > 0:29:46he and those who have helped him to power paved the way for more
0:29:46 > 0:29:48extreme versions of mainstream politics than America,
0:29:48 > 0:29:53yes, even here in the deep South, has ever imagined?
0:29:53 > 0:29:56Is the future of the Republican Party now for characters
0:29:56 > 0:30:06who will make Donald Trump himself seem rather moderate?
0:30:07 > 0:30:10The Alabama state symbol could be the pick-up truck and in Roy Moore's
0:30:10 > 0:30:12hometown of Gallant, we stumble upon his nephew Steve,
0:30:12 > 0:30:14whose own licence plate tells of his twin loves,
0:30:14 > 0:30:22tracking and Trump.
0:30:22 > 0:30:24So do you think Trump's draining the swamp?
0:30:24 > 0:30:27The whole idea was that he came to Washington to drain the swamp.
0:30:27 > 0:30:28Do you think that's happening?
0:30:28 > 0:30:29I do.
0:30:29 > 0:30:37I hope it continues.
0:30:37 > 0:30:39Who would you like to see cleared out?
0:30:39 > 0:30:41Anyone that doesn't agree with Trump.
0:30:41 > 0:30:44A dozen or so members of the Moore family still live here.
0:30:44 > 0:30:48But down the road, we find one lone voice of dissent.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51Charles, a long-time military man, reminds me that Roy Moore has twice
0:30:51 > 0:30:53been forced to stand down from political office.
0:30:53 > 0:31:02He invites me in to share his views of Alabama.
0:31:02 > 0:31:03And then his views of Alabama.
0:31:03 > 0:31:04I've travelled a lot.
0:31:04 > 0:31:06I have spent a lot of time overseas.
0:31:06 > 0:31:10But the opinion of most people any distance from Alabama is that we are
0:31:10 > 0:31:11ignored and prejudiced.
0:31:11 > 0:31:14-- ignorant and prejudiced.
0:31:14 > 0:31:15Most of it is justified!
0:31:15 > 0:31:16You really believe that?
0:31:16 > 0:31:17Yes.
0:31:17 > 0:31:18And does he exemplify that?
0:31:18 > 0:31:19He preys on it.
0:31:19 > 0:31:20Now, he's well-educated in law.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22He is a West Point graduate.
0:31:22 > 0:31:30So he's well-educated.
0:31:30 > 0:31:32But I think a professional politician tells the people
0:31:32 > 0:31:33what he thinks they want to hear.
0:31:33 > 0:31:41And once he is in office, then he can do, to a degree, what he wants.
0:31:41 > 0:31:45They still like their Confederate statues here in Dixie.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48Moore's views may not be so wild to those who live here.
0:31:48 > 0:31:50Roy Moore is not a racist.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53He is not homophobic, and he is not someone who in any way
0:31:53 > 0:31:56can be seen as anything less than what we would be
0:31:56 > 0:32:01proud of as a US Senator.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04As we get ready to leave the deep South, news comes of a governor
0:32:04 > 0:32:06tour win for the Democrats in Virginia against a moderate
0:32:06 > 0:32:08establishment Republican.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10Alabama will be the next big race.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13Roy Moore is expecting an easy win.
0:32:13 > 0:32:18So is that what the Republican Party will look like next?
0:32:18 > 0:32:20The work of Trump may be almost done.
0:32:20 > 0:32:29Steve Bannon's has barely begun.
0:32:29 > 0:32:34I'm joined by Clarence Page and Mica Mosbacher.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36Clarence is a columnist at the Chicago Tribune.
0:32:36 > 0:32:38Mica is a Republican strategist
0:32:38 > 0:32:42and member of the Trump 2020 advisory committee.
0:32:42 > 0:32:50Clarence, let me start with you. Those who voted for Trump have
0:32:50 > 0:32:54remained loyal and like what he is doing.It reminds me of the early
0:32:54 > 0:32:57days of the Obama administration, when Obama supporters were very much
0:32:57 > 0:33:04behind what he was doing even though he had some opponents out there. The
0:33:04 > 0:33:09difference is that Mr Trump has really defied norms here in
0:33:09 > 0:33:16Washington, to a degree where he makes proposals and then goes to
0:33:16 > 0:33:19Congress and this, bring me something to sign and when they
0:33:19 > 0:33:24don't, he blames Congress. And his bass buys it. They believe that
0:33:24 > 0:33:28everything that is going wrong is somebody else's fault and Mr Trump
0:33:28 > 0:33:33is doing the best he can and give him time.The difference with the
0:33:33 > 0:33:36Obama campaign, maybe, was that Obama promised hope. Where is he
0:33:36 > 0:33:41made concrete promises. There was going to be the wall, the travel
0:33:41 > 0:33:47ban. He was going to bring back jobs from Mexico. Do the voters who put
0:33:47 > 0:33:52him in power mind that those things have not materialised, and may
0:33:52 > 0:33:58never?Absolutely. He is already keeping his campaign promises.
0:33:58 > 0:34:02Firstly, his pick of Neil Gossage for Supreme Court has satisfied his
0:34:02 > 0:34:08Conservative base.That was quite a long time ago.It was recommended to
0:34:08 > 0:34:17him.It was his final choice and it resonated well with the base.
0:34:17 > 0:34:26Additionally, he has put in place several executive orders, many which
0:34:26 > 0:34:30will increase the independence of the United States, like the keystone
0:34:30 > 0:34:39pipeline. There are prototypes right now under way for a wall. We do have
0:34:39 > 0:34:43to get funding through Congress, but he is moving forward. And we cannot
0:34:43 > 0:34:48argue about the stock market. It is at an all-time record high.I
0:34:48 > 0:34:55welcome to the economy, but in factual, tangible terms, what about
0:34:55 > 0:35:00Obamacare, what about repealing and replacing?And immigration reform.
0:35:00 > 0:35:05There is no reform. And he never said he was going to build a bridge
0:35:05 > 0:35:10type for a while, he said he would build a wall.He will and it would
0:35:10 > 0:35:14get through Congress. As a Republican, I will say that I, along
0:35:14 > 0:35:18with many Republicans and Republican donors, are extremely frustrated
0:35:18 > 0:35:22with our do nothing Congress, especially the Senate, and the fact
0:35:22 > 0:35:28that we did not replace Obamacare. But there is only so much the
0:35:28 > 0:35:33president can do. What I feel he has done lately which will be important
0:35:33 > 0:35:37to this country is that he is trying to reach across the aisle. That is
0:35:37 > 0:35:42how you get the best legislation in this country. If Republicans and
0:35:42 > 0:35:46Democrats can find some area to compromise, I think that that would
0:35:46 > 0:35:51benefit everyone's constituents. That is what everyone wants,
0:35:51 > 0:35:57Clarence, triangulation.We should be able to work together across the
0:35:57 > 0:36:01aisle. That has not happened, partly because Republicans are so divided
0:36:01 > 0:36:10among themselves. They control all three branches of government now.
0:36:10 > 0:36:13But no major legislation has been passed so far this year. I don't
0:36:13 > 0:36:18know when a president in their first year couldn't get anything done.
0:36:18 > 0:36:28Trump has enemies within his own party.Ed Gillespie lost in Virginia
0:36:28 > 0:36:30because he was an establishment candidates who tried to repackage
0:36:30 > 0:36:37himself as a populist.This was the Republican running for governor who
0:36:37 > 0:36:42did not endorse Trumpism and who was then rejected today.And he did not
0:36:42 > 0:36:45endorse Trumpism because he knew it was a loser in Virginia, which has
0:36:45 > 0:36:49been a swing state that is trending blue now. He knew he couldn't go too
0:36:49 > 0:36:53far one way or the other, either towards the right or too much in the
0:36:53 > 0:36:57middle to please the base, and he wound up getting stuck with a huge
0:36:57 > 0:37:07loss.He was an establishment candidate.Do you think a Trump
0:37:07 > 0:37:18candidate could have won Virginia? Probably not.Let me look wider than
0:37:18 > 0:37:27Virginia.Let's look at the candidates that Steve Bannon is
0:37:27 > 0:37:31supporting.You are saying there must be a shift toward something
0:37:31 > 0:37:33more Conservative and more ideological than even Trump has
0:37:33 > 0:37:38proved himself so far?Well, remember, this election was
0:37:38 > 0:37:43emotional, not logical. And a lot of it was a push against big business,
0:37:43 > 0:37:51government as usual and the old dinosaur establishment candidate. I
0:37:51 > 0:37:56am a previous member of the Bush administration. My husband was
0:37:56 > 0:38:00secretary of commerce. I was the ultimate establishment person, and I
0:38:00 > 0:38:03went through a sort of 12-step programme to realise that that was
0:38:03 > 0:38:08not working.But that is totally confused. He is big business. Do you
0:38:08 > 0:38:13like it or do you hate it?But here's a businessman, not
0:38:13 > 0:38:19politician.His problem is that he doesn't seem to like legislating or
0:38:19 > 0:38:22learning about legislating. He loves the campaign, but Mr Trump hasn't
0:38:22 > 0:38:26even read his own health care bill which he endorses and then gets
0:38:26 > 0:38:28angry with the Republican legislators who don't want to go
0:38:28 > 0:38:33along with it without him engaging in the process. That is why they
0:38:33 > 0:38:37have not got anything done on Capitol Hill.Thank you both very
0:38:37 > 0:38:39much.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41Now, when Trump won the election a year ago, one writer,
0:38:41 > 0:38:43Kurt Anderson, was halfway through a book
0:38:43 > 0:38:45that he would title Fantasyland.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47It put the birth of fake news, hyperbole and false claims into
0:38:47 > 0:38:49a much wider historical context.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52In it, he argues that America has long been a place where renegades
0:38:52 > 0:39:02and freaks came in search of freedom to create their own realities.
0:39:02 > 0:39:07It began, he suggests, with the pilgrim fathers and the Salem witch
0:39:07 > 0:39:10trials and goes right through to the present day. He looks at religious
0:39:10 > 0:39:14America and what he terms the unspun rebooting of Christianity from
0:39:14 > 0:39:20Moomins to charismatics. -- from Moomins is back to charismatics. It
0:39:20 > 0:39:24takes us through New Age quackery and self-help practitioners to the
0:39:24 > 0:39:30free for all era of the 1960s, where he says liberalism run amok,
0:39:30 > 0:39:35conspiracy theories flourished and America believed in UFOs. And it
0:39:35 > 0:39:41ends here in the current day. Creationist belief, climate change
0:39:41 > 0:39:45denial, Disneyland and a sense that it must be true if you read it on
0:39:45 > 0:39:49the internet. All this, he says, helps to explain the rise and
0:39:49 > 0:39:54acceptability of Donald Trump himself and an America where the
0:39:54 > 0:40:02difference between opinion and fact is crumbling. Kurt Anderson joins us
0:40:02 > 0:40:10now. You write that Trump, who won the election just as the book was
0:40:10 > 0:40:13finished, understood that a breakdown of shared public reality
0:40:13 > 0:40:19built upon widely accepted facts represented an opportunity. You
0:40:19 > 0:40:22think he appreciated the fantasyland that you describe in that book?I
0:40:22 > 0:40:26don't think he would have put it in those words, but I do think he
0:40:26 > 0:40:29understood in some visceral sense that now was the time, after having
0:40:29 > 0:40:34flirted with the idea of running for president for 30 years, that it
0:40:34 > 0:40:38could work, that the Americans' sense of reality versus fiction had
0:40:38 > 0:40:43become iffy enough that he had a chance.That is too far-fetched.
0:40:43 > 0:40:48Trump believes his own reality, surely?Yes and no. He lies, and he
0:40:48 > 0:40:55believes. It is both. He simply has no fixed commitment to factual
0:40:55 > 0:40:59empirical reality. It is whatever serves him at a given moment, like
0:40:59 > 0:41:03the ultimate salesman that he is.So when you talk about the history of
0:41:03 > 0:41:07America, what you build up is a sense that people have been
0:41:07 > 0:41:12following their own realities for 500 years. Some of that will sound
0:41:12 > 0:41:18very critical of religion, very unforgiving of faith and of people
0:41:18 > 0:41:25being able to believe something that is just less dictated than science.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28I have nothing against faith and religion as practised in Christendom
0:41:28 > 0:41:33in most of the rest of the developed world, including the UK, Europe,
0:41:33 > 0:41:38Australia and the rest. It is the extreme and extravagant religion of
0:41:38 > 0:41:43various kinds, in which the United States has always specialised and
0:41:43 > 0:41:46which has made it even more diverging from the rest of the
0:41:46 > 0:41:55developed world today. And if that is not bad in itself, it has led to
0:41:55 > 0:42:00our politics, where an entire half of the country could be persuaded
0:42:00 > 0:42:05that climate change doesn't exist, for instance, almost that many who
0:42:05 > 0:42:07believe that evolution isn't real and should be taught in public
0:42:07 > 0:42:11schools and so on. Some of those religious ideas and some are not,
0:42:11 > 0:42:17but they are all about believing the empirically unfounded and improbable
0:42:17 > 0:42:23and untrue.You don't arrive at a conclusion to why America seems to
0:42:23 > 0:42:28break the mould of being a deeply religious country, and yet a very
0:42:28 > 0:42:30economically successful one. We tend to see the correlation in the other
0:42:30 > 0:42:40direction.Yes. We have been an exceptional country in many ways. I
0:42:40 > 0:42:44believe that this worked, that this allowing a thousand flowers bloom in
0:42:44 > 0:42:49all kinds of fantasies to be engaged and propagated worked for several
0:42:49 > 0:42:52hundred years because there was a set of establishments in control. It
0:42:52 > 0:43:01wasn't allowed to go crazy and get out of control, whether it was in
0:43:01 > 0:43:04religion, where the mainline Protestant churches ruled, and in
0:43:04 > 0:43:13the economy where, when it got extreme, it was brought back. I
0:43:13 > 0:43:17would say in many different ways, starting in the 1960s and certainly
0:43:17 > 0:43:22in the last 20 years, economically, religiously and spiritually, we have
0:43:22 > 0:43:25got out of control.But what would you change? You don't want America
0:43:25 > 0:43:31to stop being free to think or believe what it chooses.No. It
0:43:31 > 0:43:38cannot be fixed. We cannot say here are the laws we need to pass. I
0:43:38 > 0:43:43believe, however, that serious people of all political stripes,
0:43:43 > 0:43:46Conservatives as well as liberals and everybody in between, have to
0:43:46 > 0:43:54recommit to reality. They don't have to give up their faith, their
0:43:54 > 0:43:58hunches and superstitions, but we have to have a shared set of facts
0:43:58 > 0:44:02if we are going to have a society, a country and an economy that
0:44:02 > 0:44:08continues to thrive as it has.Kurt Anderson, thanks for coming in. That
0:44:08 > 0:44:12is all from Washington for tonight. We will be back with more from DC
0:44:12 > 0:44:17over the coming nights. Kirsty is in the chair tomorrow, but from both of
0:44:17 > 0:44:21us here and in London, good night.