0:00:05 > 0:00:10We wish to make it abundantly clear that this is not a military
0:00:10 > 0:00:12takeover of government.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Tonight, the dictator who said he wanted to live
0:00:15 > 0:00:18to 100 and rule for life is stuck in his house.
0:00:18 > 0:00:19Is Mugabe's regime at an end?
0:00:19 > 0:00:21And what happens to Zimbabwe now?
0:00:21 > 0:00:27We'll ask two Zimbabweans with very different perspectives,
0:00:27 > 0:00:29and later the Africa Minister, Rory Stewart.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Also tonight - is Mark Zuckerberg's tour of middle America a clue
0:00:32 > 0:00:33to Presidential ambition?
0:00:33 > 0:00:39And if so, is the world ready for it?
0:00:39 > 0:00:45Mark Zuckerberg would have a very good chance of winning the election.
0:00:45 > 0:00:50If it was Mark Zuckerberg on Donald Trump in 2020?I'd say it would be
0:00:50 > 0:00:51close.
0:00:51 > 0:00:52And this...
0:00:52 > 0:00:54# And I'll take my place again.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56# If I would try...
0:00:56 > 0:01:00A deaf singer admits she received death threats
0:01:00 > 0:01:01for entering the hearing world.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04We look at divisions in the deaf community over speaking and singing.
0:01:04 > 0:01:09Why does it seem like treachery?
0:01:09 > 0:01:12-- betrayal.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20Good evening.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22The Armed forces have seized power and Zimbabwe's
0:01:22 > 0:01:23President is under house arrest.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25But whatever you do, don't call it a coup.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28Tonight, we're looking at what appears to be the end
0:01:28 > 0:01:29of Robert Mugabe's 37 year long reign.
0:01:29 > 0:01:34No one can be sure if he's been silenced for good.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36The streets appear calm, the transition appears bloodless.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39The ruling party - Zanu PF - is still in charge.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42But Zimbabwe is beginning its hunt for a new leader,
0:01:42 > 0:01:45and the mistake Mugabe made was in getting rid
0:01:45 > 0:01:47of his Deputy last week - a man popular and respected
0:01:47 > 0:01:50by Zimbabwe Veterans.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Emmerson Mnangagwe is hoping to take charge of the country.
0:01:52 > 0:01:57He faces opposition from Mugabe's wife, Grace, who wanted
0:01:57 > 0:01:59to carry on the dynasty herself.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02And there are calls for real democratic change from MDC
0:02:02 > 0:02:04opposition leader, Morgan Tsvingirai.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07He was duped out of his election victory nearly a decade ago -
0:02:07 > 0:02:10can the MDC now claim a right to rule this once
0:02:10 > 0:02:11prosperous country?
0:02:11 > 0:02:16Here's Mike Thompson.
0:02:16 > 0:02:24Over the last 37 years no one has dared forth this 93-year-old former
0:02:24 > 0:02:28freedom fighter turned president from office. But times seem to have
0:02:28 > 0:02:35changed.
0:02:49 > 0:02:53One doesn't want to be in a position where all of a sudden it you are
0:02:53 > 0:02:59seen as quite worthless.While many try to carry on as normal, top
0:02:59 > 0:03:04figures are already jostling to replace Mugabe, the world will be
0:03:04 > 0:03:09looking at them. The face that appeared on Zimbabwe state TV last
0:03:09 > 0:03:14night wasn't that of the president, who has led the country for as long
0:03:14 > 0:03:19as many of his people can remember, instead looking sternly out of the
0:03:19 > 0:03:24screen was one of Zimbabwe's most senior army officers.
0:03:24 > 0:03:29We are only targeting criminals around him who are committing crimes
0:03:29 > 0:03:33that are causing social and economic suffering in the country, in order
0:03:33 > 0:03:37to bring them to justice. Firmly in the cross hairs are
0:03:37 > 0:03:42supporters of the President's wife, Grace Mugabe. Mrs Mugabe, who was
0:03:42 > 0:03:46first wooed by the President while she was working in his typing Paul
0:03:46 > 0:03:49has her husband's backing to take over the presidency when the time
0:03:49 > 0:03:56comes.Go ahead, do it, I don't care.The current head of Zimbabwe's
0:03:56 > 0:04:01women's league is believed to have earned her sociology Ph.D. In two
0:04:01 > 0:04:06months from the University of Zimbabwe. Evidently a quick learner.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10Mrs Mugabe, who was recently accused of assaulting a South African model
0:04:10 > 0:04:16with a plug, played a leading role in getting the previous vice
0:04:16 > 0:04:22president dismissed in 2014. Recently she set her sights on
0:04:22 > 0:04:28getting rid of the latest vice president. The general, head of
0:04:28 > 0:04:32Zimbabwe's Armed Forces in a war veteran himself, has made clear his
0:04:32 > 0:04:36total opposition to the presidency being given to anyone who wasn't a
0:04:36 > 0:04:44freedom fighter. However, the man who would, his deposed vice
0:04:44 > 0:04:47president, Emmerson Mnangagwa, who is now believed to be back in the
0:04:47 > 0:04:52country following the takeover by the army. Born in 1946, Emmerson
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Mnangagwa is a war veteran just like the general. He is believed to have
0:04:55 > 0:05:00been part of an elite group of guerrilla fighters called the
0:05:00 > 0:05:05crocodile gang and has been nicknamed Crocodile ever since.
0:05:05 > 0:05:13Under his watch in the 1980s, an estimated 20,000 people viewed as
0:05:13 > 0:05:21opposed to Zanu PF word massacred -- were massacred. In June 2007, the
0:05:21 > 0:05:28Zimbabwe government claimed to have foiled a coup by soldiers. The
0:05:28 > 0:05:33crocodile claimed he knew nothing of the alleged plot, which he described
0:05:33 > 0:05:39as stupid. The general seems to believe that the same word would
0:05:39 > 0:05:46describe anyone who claims his move last night was a coup. His
0:05:46 > 0:05:50intentions now and not clear but if he does harbour ambitions for the
0:05:50 > 0:05:54presidency, his CV makes interesting reading. On the plus side, he has a
0:05:54 > 0:05:57doctorate of philosophy degree in ethics. On the other, he's been
0:05:57 > 0:06:02accused of being abusive by his former wife's, profited greatly from
0:06:02 > 0:06:07the Gharbi's controversial land reform programme and is on a list of
0:06:07 > 0:06:13top officials banned from entering the USA all EU states. So even if
0:06:13 > 0:06:18President Mugabe's rule is now over, they're saying its things cannot
0:06:18 > 0:06:23necessarily be said for the country's problems.
0:06:23 > 0:06:24That was Mike Thomson reporting.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26Fungayi Mabhunu is an anti Mugabe campaigner and member
0:06:26 > 0:06:29of the Zimbabwe Vigil protest group, he joins me now.
0:06:29 > 0:06:34Nick Mangwana is from Zanu PF in London.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38Very nice of you both to come. Nick Mangwana, if I can start with you.
0:06:38 > 0:06:42We'll Mugabe be back in power, is this just a pause before he goes
0:06:42 > 0:06:48back into power?President Mugabe is still in power, he's the man in
0:06:48 > 0:06:53charge of Zimbabwe officially right now supply even though he is locked
0:06:53 > 0:06:59in his own home? Even though he is at home, protected by the army.Why
0:06:59 > 0:07:04does he need to be protected by the army?With Paul for presidential
0:07:04 > 0:07:11guard.Are you telling me today nothing has happened, it's not just
0:07:11 > 0:07:13functional to have the state broadcaster taken over by the army,
0:07:13 > 0:07:18to have tanks on the street and the president locked in his own home?
0:07:18 > 0:07:25Emily, a lot has happened. But what has not happened is a coup.I didn't
0:07:25 > 0:07:27say that stop you on just establishing that right from the
0:07:27 > 0:07:34start.Because right now, if you were to ask anyone who is in charge
0:07:34 > 0:07:41of Zimbabwe, nobody would say, for example, the general.Who do you
0:07:41 > 0:07:46think is in charge of Zimbabwe when you look at it?From our point, we
0:07:46 > 0:07:50think the army is in charge of Zimbabwe, because they have been on
0:07:50 > 0:07:54state television.You are expecting Mugabe to make a comeback from this?
0:07:54 > 0:07:59As far as we are concerned, we don't know. There is a lot of uncertainty
0:07:59 > 0:08:04in Zimbabwe as we speak. What we know is Mugabe is no longer in
0:08:04 > 0:08:08charge, from what we heard last night.Is it a good thing the army
0:08:08 > 0:08:12is now in charge, what you think the next step is?I think we should
0:08:12 > 0:08:27stress that this is an internal Zanu PF affair, infighting. Maybe the
0:08:27 > 0:08:31vice president if he wasn't sacked, we wouldn't be in this position.
0:08:31 > 0:08:36What we want is a transitional government that is all-inclusive.
0:08:36 > 0:08:41Zanu PF fight to stop Grace Mugabe from coming to power, isn't it?It
0:08:41 > 0:08:49is a fight to establish democracy, to stop blood-letting, it's a fight
0:08:49 > 0:08:56to stop manipulation...The army is coming into the street, putting the
0:08:56 > 0:09:00president and what looks like house arrest to establish democracy, is
0:09:00 > 0:09:05that what you're saying?As ironic as it sounds, that is in effect.You
0:09:05 > 0:09:15would will announce elections? How was that about democracy?What's
0:09:15 > 0:09:19been happening in Zimbabwe for the last two weeks, since the vice
0:09:19 > 0:09:25president was removed from his position, every person aligned to
0:09:25 > 0:09:31the vice president was being removed, purged. We are going to
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Congress, a process in December.You must be very excited now, this talk
0:09:35 > 0:09:39of democracy, because the man you don't want in charge is out and
0:09:39 > 0:09:43there is all this talk from the party of real double casino?We
0:09:43 > 0:09:48don't believe anything that comes from Zanu PF. They have deceived and
0:09:48 > 0:09:51hoodwinked us in the past. What makes you think we believe them now?
0:09:51 > 0:09:58This, at least it from the outside, is in-house fighting in Zanu PF. The
0:09:58 > 0:10:06people of Zimbabwe, they will only believe if Zimbabwe have free and
0:10:06 > 0:10:07fair elections, internationally monitored.And those aren't coming
0:10:07 > 0:10:14until next year, 2018?2018 the elections are due. There is an
0:10:14 > 0:10:17electoral process happening in Zanu PF which is supposed to happen next
0:10:17 > 0:10:25month. This is when the first Lady was expected to assume...Clarify
0:10:25 > 0:10:28things for our viewers. In the elections in August next year, your
0:10:28 > 0:10:34party could end up in opposition? You would accept that if you were in
0:10:34 > 0:10:40opposition?Of course.It didn't happen in 2008 when Tsvingirai
0:10:40 > 0:10:45appeared to win that debate, he didn't end up in power.He won by
0:10:45 > 0:10:50numbers but we don't do first past the post in Zimbabwe. We go 50 plus
0:10:50 > 0:10:54one. He didn't meet the threshold. You are going into this believing
0:10:54 > 0:10:58there will be free and fair elections within a year, less than a
0:10:58 > 0:11:02year, which could bring the MDC, the opposition party or anyone else who
0:11:02 > 0:11:09wanted to enter this ballot, into power?As far as we are concerned
0:11:09 > 0:11:11right now Zimbabwe needs a transitional authority that will
0:11:11 > 0:11:17make sure it will revitalise the country and we want a transitional
0:11:17 > 0:11:21government that is all-inclusive and we don't want a situation where Zanu
0:11:21 > 0:11:26PF do what they did last time, where the opposition with in their just as
0:11:26 > 0:11:30the numbers, and they weren't taken care. We want a situation where the
0:11:30 > 0:11:34opposition is there and Zanu PF. The corruption and sure that there is no
0:11:34 > 0:11:40nepotism.What happens if Robert Mugabe refuses to go or refuses to
0:11:40 > 0:11:47stop being the ruler?Nobody said the president should go.Not stay in
0:11:47 > 0:11:52his house?He is in his house, he's always staying in his house, there
0:11:52 > 0:11:56is nothing wrong with the president being in his house and the houses
0:11:56 > 0:12:02guarded.You must see how this looks to the outside world. It's not a
0:12:02 > 0:12:05normal day when you have the army on the streets and a man who we
0:12:05 > 0:12:09understand it under house arrest, even if he wants to be in his house,
0:12:09 > 0:12:13and his wife who may or may not have fled the country to find amnesty
0:12:13 > 0:12:17elsewhere, this is not a normal day in Zimbabwe?There is nothing normal
0:12:17 > 0:12:23about what is happening in Zimbabwe at the moment, that is established.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25Cannot I respond about the transitional authority? What he's
0:12:25 > 0:12:31asking for is exactly what people would complain... That is is this
0:12:31 > 0:12:34edition of the Constitution. In the constitution there was no reference
0:12:34 > 0:12:39at all to a transitional authority. There is a process, if you want to
0:12:39 > 0:12:44get rid of President midterm you can impeach him. He can resign. If
0:12:44 > 0:12:51President Mugabe chooses tomorrow... The army, if they took a bit of his
0:12:51 > 0:12:56pal, he can go. That's fine, the president goes on we go into
0:12:56 > 0:13:01elections. At the moment Zanu PF has to give Zimbabwe the next president.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04Thank you both very much indeed for coming in.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06Robert Mugabe's stated aim is to live to 100,
0:13:06 > 0:13:07and rule for life.
0:13:07 > 0:13:08This overweening ambition would sound far fetched
0:13:08 > 0:13:10in the mouths of most.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12Zimbabwe's leader, though, has pretty much done it.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14After 37 consecutive years in power, despite his brutal regime
0:13:14 > 0:13:18and his country's decent into poverty, he still clings on.
0:13:18 > 0:13:21His ruthlessness at the age of 93, has been unwavering.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23He took Zimbabwe after Independence when it was prosperous,
0:13:23 > 0:13:26and brought it to the brink of economic collapse -
0:13:26 > 0:13:27more than once.
0:13:27 > 0:13:33Tonight, then...
0:13:33 > 0:13:36For the first time in decades, there is some real uncertainty
0:13:36 > 0:13:37about his future...
0:13:37 > 0:13:40So will this really spell the end of the Mugabe regime?
0:13:40 > 0:13:41And how will history judge him?
0:13:41 > 0:13:47Here's John Sweeney.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51There was a time when Robert Mugabe seem to be a hero, a freedom fighter
0:13:51 > 0:13:56for black majority power in white ruled Rhodesia. That was when Mugabe
0:13:56 > 0:14:03was in jail and this man, Ian Smith, was in power.I don't believe in
0:14:03 > 0:14:11black majority rule ever in Rhodesia.Not in 1000 years. Mugabe,
0:14:11 > 0:14:14born in 1924, became a Marxist as a young man and joined the freedom
0:14:14 > 0:14:20struggle. In 1963 he was convicted for sedition and spent 12 years in
0:14:20 > 0:14:22jail. While there, his son died.
0:14:22 > 0:14:24And he never forgave the prison authorities for not
0:14:24 > 0:14:29letting him attend his funeral.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33On his release, he became the hard man of the nationalist struggle, his
0:14:33 > 0:14:36rhetoric terrifying the country's whites.
0:14:36 > 0:14:37It's hard to get up here, dear.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39You have to wait for convoys.
0:14:39 > 0:14:40I'm waiting for my independence!
0:14:40 > 0:14:44Civil war followed, in which thousands died.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Some of the dead were fellow freedom fighters, believed to have been
0:14:47 > 0:14:49killed on the orders of an increasingly
0:14:49 > 0:14:53paranoid Robert Mugabe.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55But to many on the left, he was an icon.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58To me, as an anti-apartheid activist, Robert Mugabe
0:14:58 > 0:15:00was a liberation hero.
0:15:00 > 0:15:05I was ecstatic when he was elected by a landslide in 1980.
0:15:05 > 0:15:15Against the old racist regime of Ian Smith.
0:15:16 > 0:15:18That view later changed dramatically.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20At the Lancaster House talks in London in 1979,
0:15:20 > 0:15:22Mrs Thatcher pushed Smith to step down.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, elections followed and the white
0:15:24 > 0:15:28tyrant metamorphosed into a black one.
0:15:28 > 0:15:31To begin with, he sounded as nice as pie.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33This evening, Mr Mugabe made a television address
0:15:33 > 0:15:37in which he underlined his wish to create one multiracial society.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41It must be realised, however, that a state of peace and security
0:15:41 > 0:15:45can only be achieved by our determination, all of us,
0:15:45 > 0:15:49to be bound by the explicit requirements of peace contained
0:15:49 > 0:15:53in the Lancaster House Agreement.
0:15:53 > 0:15:58Which expressed the general desire of the people of Zimbabwe.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02But this is a mass grave in Matabeleland where in the early
0:16:02 > 0:16:071980s the infamous 5th Brigade, trained by North Korean instructors,
0:16:07 > 0:16:12murdered as many as 20,000 people.
0:16:12 > 0:16:18Mugabe's first wife died and he married his secretary,
0:16:18 > 0:16:19Grace Marufu, in 1996.
0:16:19 > 0:16:23She became a power beside the throne.
0:16:23 > 0:16:26As the decades rolled by, life in Zimbabwe got bleaker
0:16:26 > 0:16:29for black and white alike.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33The currency crashed and the $100 trillion note was minted.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36Food ran scarce and opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai threatened
0:16:36 > 0:16:41Mugabe's grip on power.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44In 2007, Tsvangirai got beaten up but then the old dictator
0:16:44 > 0:16:47proved his cunning by taking the opposition leader
0:16:47 > 0:16:52into his tent and sidelining him.
0:16:52 > 0:16:54But the great hero of the freedom struggle -
0:16:54 > 0:16:56whatever happened to him?
0:16:56 > 0:16:59He was seen as the new Zimbabwean leader, part of the freedom
0:16:59 > 0:17:03struggle, suffered in prison terribly, suffered very grievous
0:17:03 > 0:17:07family loss as well.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09Were you foolish to think that?
0:17:09 > 0:17:12In retrospect, if you look at what happened to Mugabe,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15he went seriously bad.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18Not just with his genocide in Matabeleland, that genocide
0:17:18 > 0:17:25was the start of actually Mugabe becoming a growing monster.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28To that, one could add that Zimbabwe is a wonderful country
0:17:28 > 0:17:33brought low by corruption, hate and paranoia.
0:17:33 > 0:17:42Robert Mugabe is not dead but few will mourn his passing from power.
0:17:42 > 0:17:43John Swinney.
0:17:43 > 0:17:49Joining me now, Rory Stewart, Minister of State for Africa.
0:17:49 > 0:17:54From the British government's perspective, is this a good thing?
0:17:54 > 0:17:57We don't normally think of military intervention as good but does
0:17:57 > 0:18:03Britain think so?A lot will depend on what happens next year, the key
0:18:03 > 0:18:06is to make sure we get to a genuinely free and fair election and
0:18:06 > 0:18:12as you have heard, Zimbabwe has incredible potential. One of the
0:18:12 > 0:18:18most educated populations in Africa, good infrastructure, fertile soil
0:18:18 > 0:18:22and great natural resources so the key test is not what is happening
0:18:22 > 0:18:26now in the next few hours or days but whether we can get to a
0:18:26 > 0:18:29situation where there is a good legitimate government coming out in
0:18:29 > 0:18:33line with the constitution next year.What do you do at this stage
0:18:33 > 0:18:39in terms of government relations? Is anything reinstated? Do you look at
0:18:39 > 0:18:45that again?The answer is we have to be patient and careful to find out
0:18:45 > 0:18:52what is happening. As you reported well, we know from President Zuma of
0:18:52 > 0:18:55South Africa that President Mugabe appears to be under house arrest and
0:18:55 > 0:19:00there is a lot of waiting to see what President Mugabe does and as
0:19:00 > 0:19:04you heard, people expect him to step down and a transition government to
0:19:04 > 0:19:08come in but the key question is whether we can get the building
0:19:08 > 0:19:12blocks in place. I mean the international community, the African
0:19:12 > 0:19:18Union, the Southern African regional body and the UN, to make sure that
0:19:18 > 0:19:24we have in place are free and fair election.Forgive me, but even
0:19:24 > 0:19:29before you get the building blocks in place, you have to decide whether
0:19:29 > 0:19:34you think this is a President that is right to set? There will be
0:19:34 > 0:19:37neighbouring African countries who see us turning a blind eye or not
0:19:37 > 0:19:41quite sure whether to endorse or condemn this, we do not want to say
0:19:41 > 0:19:46every time the military comes in, that is fine and we will wait to see
0:19:46 > 0:19:52what the building blocks are?You are absolutely right. The key thing,
0:19:52 > 0:19:56and the African Union has been very clear, is to watch carefully what is
0:19:56 > 0:20:04going on and Africa has had a bad history of this stuff and making
0:20:04 > 0:20:07sure that everything that happens is constitutional and clear is vital.
0:20:07 > 0:20:12He will have heard that the military has been poor. Are to emphasise that
0:20:12 > 0:20:15civilian leadership remains in place and some sort of unity government is
0:20:15 > 0:20:23being brought together. But again, this is also, potentially, with all
0:20:23 > 0:20:28of the confusion, a moment of opportunity for some as this
0:20:28 > 0:20:32progression goes through, Zimbabwe has been in a difficult position and
0:20:32 > 0:20:37if the international community can agree, we might be able to move to a
0:20:37 > 0:20:41good future. If we don't get this right, we could see Zimbabwe stuck
0:20:41 > 0:20:49in a difficult situation for years. Would you say you would like to see
0:20:49 > 0:20:53the MDC in power? Knowing what you do about the way Zanu-PF runs and
0:20:53 > 0:20:59regs election results?Absolutely clear that it must be up to the
0:20:59 > 0:21:02people. Nothing would be more dangerous than for a British
0:21:02 > 0:21:06minister to say that I want a particular party to win. The key is
0:21:06 > 0:21:09to Banks Road the election works and that means international observers
0:21:09 > 0:21:14and an independent Electoral Commission and proper registration
0:21:14 > 0:21:19of voters so that people can choose. You heard my guests saying that
0:21:19 > 0:21:25Mugabe is still in power, this is dressed up as changed and they think
0:21:25 > 0:21:31nothing has happened.That is the key, Mugabe staying in power is very
0:21:31 > 0:21:35disturbing, he has had a terrible record and has done an enormous
0:21:35 > 0:21:40amount of wreck -- damage to the country, thousands have died, there
0:21:40 > 0:21:44was hyperinflation so there has to be a transition away from Robert
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Mugabe but any transition has to be through a process that creates a
0:21:47 > 0:21:51credible, legitimate government. There is so much economic reform
0:21:51 > 0:21:56that is needed, millions of Zimbabweans who would want to return
0:21:56 > 0:22:01and contribute to the future of the country so the key is using this
0:22:01 > 0:22:04opportunity to say, this may be the beginning of a change but it is very
0:22:04 > 0:22:10much only the beginning. The key is, well those elections be held as they
0:22:10 > 0:22:15should be between February and August, and will they be clean?You
0:22:15 > 0:22:19mentioned the delicacy of a British minister in this position, you know
0:22:19 > 0:22:22the Middle East well and you are careful with your choice of words, I
0:22:22 > 0:22:32wonder what you said to Boris Johnson about his appalling choice
0:22:32 > 0:22:35of words that may have cost a British mother in Iran five more
0:22:35 > 0:22:38years of freedom?I saw the Foreign Secretary this morning and he had a
0:22:38 > 0:22:41very serious and warm meeting with the family and he is very determined
0:22:41 > 0:22:46to pull out every stop to solve that situation but I am the Africa
0:22:46 > 0:22:50Minister and not Middle East but my sense is that meeting went very well
0:22:50 > 0:22:53and the family feels grateful that the Foreign Secretary is engaging so
0:22:53 > 0:22:58closely.Thank you.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00More than two billion people worldwide use Facebook,
0:23:00 > 0:23:03but not all of us are feeling so good about it these days.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05Not only is it under fire for its unwitting involvement
0:23:05 > 0:23:09in the spread of fake news, but early investors have in the past
0:23:09 > 0:23:11week condemned the impact it's having on our mental health.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13Could this explain why its founder, Mark Zuckerberg, has engaged
0:23:13 > 0:23:16on a year long meet-the-people tour, trying to hear concerns
0:23:16 > 0:23:18and conversations around America?
0:23:18 > 0:23:20Some are reading his moves as the beginning
0:23:20 > 0:23:22of a Presidential bid.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25I interviewed Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook six years ago and now
0:23:25 > 0:23:31I've gone back to the States to follow in his footsteps.
0:23:34 > 0:23:40I've left the capital for the Midwest.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42In Newton Falls, Ohio, I'm following in the footsteps
0:23:42 > 0:23:47of a certain billionaire.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50My wife will love it...
0:23:50 > 0:23:52I arrive for breakfast with Daniel, an Obama supporter who voted
0:23:52 > 0:23:55for Trump eight years on.
0:23:55 > 0:24:02I'm the second complete stranger who's turned up for a meal
0:24:02 > 0:24:04at his home recently - the first was Zuckerberg.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06Mark coming in and sitting where you're sitting and saying,
0:24:06 > 0:24:08you're probably all wondering why I'm here?
0:24:08 > 0:24:15And I'm like, yeah, I did wonder that, Mark, you know?
0:24:15 > 0:24:19And yeah, that's when he told me he's on this cross-country tour
0:24:19 > 0:24:22and getting out and talking, wanting to connect with people
0:24:22 > 0:24:28and talk with them, getting to know people better.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31The drop-in at Daniel's was part of Zuckerberg's self-styled
0:24:31 > 0:24:37year of travel project, to the 30 US states he's never seen.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40These meet the people truck stops have been interpreted by some
0:24:40 > 0:24:41as a putative presidential bid.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43His team told Daniel that would be wrong.
0:24:43 > 0:24:49Just relax, he says, you can talk to anybody you want.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52Just make sure you emphasise the fact that Mark is not running
0:24:52 > 0:24:53for president in 2020.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56That's funny.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59Ben Soskis has been studying Zuckerberg's philanthropic activity.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02Does he see it as political?
0:25:02 > 0:25:06I do not necessarily think it means he's running for president.
0:25:06 > 0:25:12I think these days, the blurring of the balance between the political
0:25:12 > 0:25:16and the philanthropic means that the demands on a philanthropist
0:25:16 > 0:25:19to actually understand his public, so to speak, are similar
0:25:19 > 0:25:21to a national politician.
0:25:21 > 0:25:26Everything he does now is essentially political.
0:25:26 > 0:25:28His philanthropic ambitions and his commercial corporate
0:25:28 > 0:25:32ambitions are now political.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35One doesn't have to run for public office to be
0:25:35 > 0:25:41a deeply political figure.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44When we launched the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative...
0:25:44 > 0:25:47Two years ago Mark and his wife launched CZI, a limited liability
0:25:47 > 0:25:49company that offers enormous flexibility and demands very
0:25:49 > 0:25:52little transparency.
0:25:52 > 0:25:58Ben thinks the private power of these wealthy philanthropists
0:25:58 > 0:25:59is of huge concern.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02I feel that in many cases Mark Zuckerberg is probably
0:26:02 > 0:26:06doing very good work, but one individual is able
0:26:06 > 0:26:09to have an oversized impact on public policy,
0:26:09 > 0:26:14and well beyond what a normal citizen can have.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17There is something profoundly troubling about that,
0:26:17 > 0:26:20something that runs counter to some core democratic,
0:26:20 > 0:26:23egalitarian principles.
0:26:23 > 0:26:27When I met Zuckerberg all those years ago, his mission was one
0:26:27 > 0:26:30of technological utopia.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33He embodied a youthful optimism that the world wanted to share
0:26:33 > 0:26:36recipes and running routes, baby photos and pet videos.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39Everyone is going to have a much better experience when they're doing
0:26:39 > 0:26:41different things with their friends.
0:26:41 > 0:26:43From a dorm room in Harvard, he created the outstanding economic
0:26:43 > 0:26:47success story of this century - a social media giant
0:26:47 > 0:26:50with two billion active users, or what may be a third of the world
0:26:50 > 0:26:52within another year.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55He could never have imagined that sharing would evolve
0:26:55 > 0:26:58into something quite so dark.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00There's breaking news on Facebook's involvement with Russian influence
0:27:00 > 0:27:02in the 2016 presidential...
0:27:02 > 0:27:05CBS News has learned new information about the extent of Russian linked
0:27:05 > 0:27:06activities on Facebook.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09Facebook admitting they were paid more than $100,000 by Russian
0:27:09 > 0:27:12companies during the election.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14I made some decisions on the next steps that we're
0:27:14 > 0:27:15going to be taking...
0:27:15 > 0:27:18Mark Zuckerberg returned from paternity leave and was forced
0:27:18 > 0:27:19to make a public statement.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21I care deeply about the democratic process
0:27:21 > 0:27:24and protecting its integrity.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26Facebook's mission is all about giving people a voice
0:27:26 > 0:27:29and bringing people closer together.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32Those are democratic values and we're proud of them.
0:27:32 > 0:27:39I don't want anyone to use our tools to undermine democracy.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42But just this month, lawmakers in a Senate committee
0:27:42 > 0:27:46hearing were telling the tech giants they're out of touch.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49I don't think you get it.
0:27:49 > 0:27:52You bear this responsibility, you've created these platforms,
0:27:52 > 0:27:56and now they are being misused and you have to be the ones
0:27:56 > 0:28:00to do something about it.
0:28:00 > 0:28:02But some have noticed a shift.
0:28:02 > 0:28:04Where once Zuckerberg talked of connectivity,
0:28:04 > 0:28:07now he talks about community.
0:28:07 > 0:28:12Is this a move to make the company sound less techy, more human?
0:28:12 > 0:28:15He and the other internet billionaires
0:28:15 > 0:28:17are the new robber barons.
0:28:17 > 0:28:19And just like the robber barons of old, who were challenged
0:28:19 > 0:28:23by people who said, this is bad for democracy, to have so few people
0:28:23 > 0:28:26with so much money in power, well what did the robber barons do?
0:28:26 > 0:28:28They started to build libraries and museums to say,
0:28:28 > 0:28:29we're doing good for society.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33They really want to see themselves as sort of Promethean figures
0:28:33 > 0:28:35who are remaking society.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38All this language of disruption, of breaking things,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41of remaking the world.
0:28:41 > 0:28:44I think that he has a very grand ambition.
0:28:44 > 0:28:47So now I'm wondering if this mission has taken
0:28:47 > 0:28:49on a more pressing dimension, a way to get the public
0:28:49 > 0:28:52back on Facebook's side.
0:28:52 > 0:28:59Mark Zuckerberg has 98 million friends on Facebook.
0:28:59 > 0:29:01In person, he can clearly impress.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03I was very nervous, but he put us all at ease.
0:29:03 > 0:29:06He's just like, I almost felt like I was talking
0:29:06 > 0:29:07to my little brother, you know?
0:29:07 > 0:29:08I didn't feel...
0:29:08 > 0:29:10At first I was nervous as heck, you know?
0:29:10 > 0:29:12Like my goodness, because he's a billionaire.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15But I'm still curious to know if a swing voter like Daniel
0:29:15 > 0:29:17will come with me on a hypothetical.
0:29:17 > 0:29:20Mark Zuckerberg would have a very good chance of winning the election.
0:29:20 > 0:29:22So if it was between Donald Trump and Mark Zuckerberg
0:29:22 > 0:29:24in 2020, which way you go?
0:29:24 > 0:29:27I was asked that question before, and I'm going to say
0:29:27 > 0:29:36it would be close.
0:29:36 > 0:29:40Last night we showed you a stark headline on the front page of the
0:29:40 > 0:29:42Telegraph. That has been making some waves today.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44Our political editor Nick Watt is here.
0:29:44 > 0:29:46What are you hearing, Nick?
0:29:46 > 0:29:49Quite a backlash against it. Leading Brexiteers said this is absolutely
0:29:49 > 0:29:54wrong. Some of those 15 named their feel emboldened. I spoke to on this
0:29:54 > 0:29:57evening that said the idea that prompted this is dead in the water,
0:29:57 > 0:30:02and that is the government's decision to amend this bill to put
0:30:02 > 0:30:08the date of Brexit, 29th of March 2019 on the face of the bill. My
0:30:08 > 0:30:11impression is the government is listening. One option is they pull
0:30:11 > 0:30:23that amendment. I think what you are probably
0:30:23 > 0:30:25looking at is some sort of compromise. This was debated
0:30:25 > 0:30:28yesterday. It won't be voted on, this amendment, and further down the
0:30:28 > 0:30:31line. The compromise could be you have a date there but you have the
0:30:31 > 0:30:33words in accordance with Article 50, which means you could get an
0:30:33 > 0:30:36extension. But it has really created a bit of a sour atmosphere. It is
0:30:36 > 0:30:38even getting into government ranks. I spoke to one member of the
0:30:38 > 0:30:42government who said the Prime Minister's letter accompanying this
0:30:42 > 0:30:45Friday had poisoned the well because in that letter the Prime Minister
0:30:45 > 0:30:51had said, I will not tolerate trying to block or slow down Brexit.Thank
0:30:51 > 0:30:54you very much.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57Mandy Harvey, a deaf singer with an incredible voice,
0:30:57 > 0:30:59made headlines around the world after her success on
0:30:59 > 0:31:01America's Got Talent.
0:31:01 > 0:31:03She used vibrations from the floor to pick up the beat,
0:31:03 > 0:31:05although she could hear nothing.
0:31:05 > 0:31:06And what's your name?
0:31:06 > 0:31:09Mandy Harvey.
0:31:09 > 0:31:10And who is this?
0:31:10 > 0:31:12My interpreter.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15I lost all my hearing when I was 18 years old.
0:31:15 > 0:31:16Wow!
0:31:16 > 0:31:17And how old are you now?
0:31:17 > 0:31:18I'm 29.
0:31:18 > 0:31:22So it's ten years.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24I have a connective tissue disorder, so basically I got sick
0:31:24 > 0:31:26and my nerves deteriorated.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30I've been singing since I was four.
0:31:30 > 0:31:40I left music after I lost my hearing and then I figured out how to get
0:31:40 > 0:31:42back into singing with muscle memory, using visual tuners
0:31:42 > 0:31:43and trusting my pitch.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45So, your shoes are off because you're feeling the vibration?
0:31:45 > 0:31:47Is that how you're following the music?
0:31:47 > 0:31:49Yeah, I'm feeling the tempo, the beat, through the floor.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51Mandy, what are you going to sing?
0:31:51 > 0:31:54I'm going to sing a song that I wrote called Try.
0:31:54 > 0:31:57After I lost my hearing, I gave up.
0:31:57 > 0:32:00But I want to do more with my life than just give up.
0:32:00 > 0:32:01APPLAUSE.
0:32:01 > 0:32:05Good for you.
0:32:09 > 0:32:11OK, look, this is your moment and good luck.
0:32:16 > 0:32:23# I don't feel the way I used to.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27# The sky is grey much more than it is blue.
0:32:27 > 0:32:34# But I know one day I'll get through...
0:32:34 > 0:32:37That was the incredible Mandy.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40But when she first took to the stage she describes how she received death
0:32:40 > 0:32:42threats from within the deaf community for promoting
0:32:42 > 0:32:43a hearing activity.
0:32:43 > 0:32:45She was accused by some of promoting 'oralism' -
0:32:45 > 0:32:48the word used to explain the practice of educating deaf
0:32:48 > 0:32:51people to use speech and lip reading rather than sign language.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54So tonight, we try and explore the feelings that lie beneath this.
0:32:54 > 0:32:56Why do some deaf people consider speech and singing treachery?
0:32:56 > 0:32:59And why is sign language perceived to be a more pure
0:32:59 > 0:33:03means of communication and of identity for them?
0:33:03 > 0:33:05Joining me now are Honesty Willoughby and Zoe McWhinney.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07They're speaking through an interpreter.
0:33:07 > 0:33:13They're flatmates but they have different perspectives.
0:33:13 > 0:33:20Many thanks for coming in to join us. What did you make of this row,
0:33:20 > 0:33:30Zoe?In terms of the death threats, really, in the American deaf
0:33:30 > 0:33:33community, it is showing that they're quite frustrated, an element
0:33:33 > 0:33:37of people there who are quite frustrated. There is an
0:33:37 > 0:33:41organisation. They are based in America and they are very, very
0:33:41 > 0:33:46strongly termed, their name is AGB and their promotion of oralism is
0:33:46 > 0:33:51very strong. They lie about their research and really deaf people are
0:33:51 > 0:33:58fed up. Hearing people think oralism is the way forward and it's positive
0:33:58 > 0:34:05but deaf people are fed up with it. Honestly.For me, linking to that,
0:34:05 > 0:34:08I'm quite disappointed with what happened. I'm disappointed with the
0:34:08 > 0:34:14news and how it represented the deaf community and sending death threats
0:34:14 > 0:34:18that, that's not deaf community. It's a negative representation of us
0:34:18 > 0:34:22as a whole.Eder want to talk about the death threats. Leaving that to
0:34:22 > 0:34:28one side, do you understand where this sense of discomfort comes from,
0:34:28 > 0:34:33betrayal and even, that deaf people are this word, oralist, using
0:34:33 > 0:34:38singing or speaking instead of a pure red language of sign? Zoe?
0:34:41 > 0:34:47I think in America, in America's Got Talent, that programme, with that
0:34:47 > 0:34:53individual with her beautiful voice which was spectacular, and deaf
0:34:53 > 0:34:58people who don't know sign language, they don't know exactly... They
0:34:58 > 0:35:03didn't know that this individual was not born deaf, she lost her hearing,
0:35:03 > 0:35:09she became deaf. So people immediately recognised her and say,
0:35:09 > 0:35:13you are deaf. It's that same scenario of repeating itself again.
0:35:13 > 0:35:21Singing for us is not accessible. OK, so signing is a pure form for
0:35:21 > 0:35:24you in the deaf community of communicating because it is a world
0:35:24 > 0:35:34you are always part of all the time, is that the point?In terms of there
0:35:34 > 0:35:39being a border between hearing and signing, there's always that element
0:35:39 > 0:35:48of gesture and visualisation. With sign language, deaf people, that's
0:35:48 > 0:35:57how we access communication. English speech, sap banished speech, French
0:35:57 > 0:36:00speech, that's their form of communication of course, and also...
0:36:00 > 0:36:05There's been misinformation about oralism which is being spread all
0:36:05 > 0:36:09over the world. What about sign language? We need a little bit more
0:36:09 > 0:36:12focus on that and more awareness on that and the importance of sign
0:36:12 > 0:36:18language.Can I ask a question... Honesty, you were born into a
0:36:18 > 0:36:24speaking and hearing family. Your mother chose not to teach you
0:36:24 > 0:36:27through oral language but to sign instead, how did she make that
0:36:27 > 0:36:35decision?Well, when I was born... Of course when I was growing up I
0:36:35 > 0:36:41didn't know anything about the deaf community. And going through the
0:36:41 > 0:36:44medical experience, I was told that I should learn through oralism but
0:36:44 > 0:36:51sign language is my right, that is my language. My family, my mother
0:36:51 > 0:36:57was advised I should be taught to speak. But my mother looked into it,
0:36:57 > 0:37:03she did her own research and refused. And found out that there is
0:37:03 > 0:37:08a deaf community, and they learn sign language and that is accessible
0:37:08 > 0:37:13for me and I have my own language and its full access for myself.From
0:37:13 > 0:37:17the outside, for people not familiar with the deaf community, I'm sure
0:37:17 > 0:37:20there will be many saying, it's great to have signing, why wouldn't
0:37:20 > 0:37:25you add in speaking if you can, singing if you can, lip-reading if
0:37:25 > 0:37:29you can as well? Why wouldn't you have the richest experience you
0:37:29 > 0:37:41possibly can?Yes, bilingualism, that's good.You agree, do you, Zoe?
0:37:41 > 0:37:46I think in terms of speech and sign, its dual language, quite difficult.
0:37:46 > 0:37:51There are some people that can do that quite well. But to do that at
0:37:51 > 0:37:55the same time, it's impossible, because you lose focus on one
0:37:55 > 0:37:59language. In terms of the grammar, the context, the syntax, everything
0:37:59 > 0:38:02that is linked that creates the language is totally different. It's
0:38:02 > 0:38:06a like putting your head and rubbing your stomach, doing two things at
0:38:06 > 0:38:13the same time.Does it feel like a political choice for you within the
0:38:13 > 0:38:17deaf community to say signing is my identity, it is my deaf identity and
0:38:17 > 0:38:27I don't want the confusion of anything else?Yes and no. I think
0:38:27 > 0:38:34with sign language, it is becoming quite a political issue. It's not an
0:38:34 > 0:38:42issue of saying I can't speak, it's saying I don't speak. Because they
0:38:42 > 0:38:50hearing community, it's quite powerful. And, of course, with
0:38:50 > 0:38:54technology, implants and things like that, and with that sort of research
0:38:54 > 0:38:57in place, people can understand the theory is that deaf people might be
0:38:57 > 0:39:02able to speak but we need to also show awareness that speech can
0:39:02 > 0:39:09happen. For example, my family is deaf, they all sign and sign
0:39:09 > 0:39:16language exists in the wider community as well. I mean, with
0:39:16 > 0:39:21hearing people, they've got eyes and hands, they can learn.Honesty and
0:39:21 > 0:39:24Zoe, thank you both very much indeed and thank you for interpreting for
0:39:24 > 0:39:26us.
0:39:26 > 0:39:27That's it for tonight.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30We leave you with the first ever actual video of
0:39:30 > 0:39:32a scientific superstar.
0:39:32 > 0:39:34Crisper is the tool that lets scientists slice through DNA
0:39:34 > 0:39:36to disable genes or insert new ones.
0:39:36 > 0:39:38It's currently the hottest topic in biology, but you couldn't
0:39:38 > 0:39:41actually ever see the process because it all happens
0:39:41 > 0:39:45at a molecular level.
0:39:45 > 0:39:47Enter Professor Osamu Nureki of the university of Tokyo,
0:39:47 > 0:39:49and his high-speed atomic-force microscopic camera.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51Goodnight.
0:39:55 > 0:40:05MUSIC: It Ain't What You Do (It's the Way That You Do It).