0:00:04 > 0:00:07It's been a choppy couple of weeks for the Government.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10But can Philip Hammond put them back on an even keel
0:00:10 > 0:00:12and save his own skin too?
0:00:12 > 0:00:15The Chancellor's got a big job of work to do
0:00:15 > 0:00:16with next week's Budget.
0:00:16 > 0:00:26So, is he preparing something special for that battered red box?
0:00:28 > 0:00:30New details are emerging about Philip Hammond's budget tonight -
0:00:30 > 0:00:33I've been speaking to one of his closest political friends,
0:00:33 > 0:00:35who reveals the chancellor is planning a modest loosening
0:00:35 > 0:00:39of the taps.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43But another tory has a warning for him on housing:
0:00:43 > 0:00:48If we do not do something about this then we will be writing ourselves
0:00:48 > 0:00:52out of the electoral script.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54The Budget could see budging on Universal Credit too.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56Tonight we go to Newcastle to see first hand some
0:00:56 > 0:01:02of the problems solved and created by the new system.
0:01:02 > 0:01:07I hid in my bedroom for nearly to macro weeks. I only went out of the
0:01:07 > 0:01:14bedroom to go to the toilet. My children went to stay with my
0:01:14 > 0:01:19parents for a little while. Purely because I didn't have the money to
0:01:19 > 0:01:22feed them.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25All of this makes next week a make or break week in politics.
0:01:25 > 0:01:33We'll discuss it all with our panel of pundits.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36Good evening.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39The Budget is normally a big eagerly awaited affair but it has almost got
0:01:39 > 0:01:42lost in mountain of problems facing Theresa May - from sexual scandals
0:01:42 > 0:01:49to Boris Johnson's big gaffe, to today's ticking off of the Prime
0:01:49 > 0:01:59Minister.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02Meanwhile, the Chancellor is beavering away, trying to make
0:02:02 > 0:02:04sure he avoids a repeat of the humiliating U turn
0:02:04 > 0:02:09after the March Budget over national insurance.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13But with fellow Cabinet members including Michael Gove
0:02:13 > 0:02:15and Amber Rudd breathing down his neck, he'll also be
0:02:15 > 0:02:18thinking about making a splash - in a good way - if such
0:02:18 > 0:02:25a thing is possible.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27We'll be discussing all this with our panel throughout
0:02:27 > 0:02:30the programme but first, our political editor, Nick Watt.
0:02:30 > 0:02:36I have not got money to buy a house. When do you reckon you will be able
0:02:36 > 0:02:41to buy? About ten years. Do the Tories expect our support in the
0:02:41 > 0:02:48light of another 1% pay increase? There is not a magic money tree we
0:02:48 > 0:02:52can shake to provide for everything people want.There was no magic
0:02:52 > 0:02:58money tree for the nation. Are the Tories about to unveil a more
0:02:58 > 0:03:08modest, magic money tap?
0:03:09 > 0:03:14No, they don't have an overall majority at this stage.On that grim
0:03:14 > 0:03:17night for the Conservatives, they lost seats in their natural
0:03:17 > 0:03:23territory. Anxious younger people are at the heart of that story is
0:03:23 > 0:03:30you people in their 20s, 30s and 40s preferred Labour. It is Philip
0:03:30 > 0:03:34Hammond's challenge in a spread it to reset his party plasma relations
0:03:34 > 0:03:40with those younger voters.At the June election, we lost, among all
0:03:40 > 0:03:46age groups up to the age of 49. That is a terrifying position for the
0:03:46 > 0:03:54Conservative Party to be in. I do think the party is very focused.In
0:03:54 > 0:03:57the feverish atmosphere at Westminster there has been an
0:03:57 > 0:04:02intense, internal debate about how to pitch the budget. Should the
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Chancellor be bold and allow spending to flow or should it be a
0:04:05 > 0:04:11case of steady as she goes with spending restraint? I am told one
0:04:11 > 0:04:20senior aide advise the Chancellor to throw caution to the wind to make
0:04:20 > 0:04:23sure he leaves a memorable legacy. This could, after all, be your final
0:04:23 > 0:04:28budget if Theresa May finally snaps with you. Others say this most
0:04:28 > 0:04:33cautious of politicians is not about to change the habits of a lifetime.
0:04:33 > 0:04:38I understand the budget will contain both elements of that internal
0:04:38 > 0:04:42Treasury debate. The Chancellor will turn on the tap. There will be more
0:04:42 > 0:04:49than a dribble but we should not expect a gash. Every penny is
0:04:49 > 0:04:57accounted for by the man known as Spreadsheet Phil. No doubt Labour
0:04:57 > 0:05:03will say it is all just an illusion. One of the Chancellor's oldest
0:05:03 > 0:05:07friends believe he will spend some of his so-called headroom or war
0:05:07 > 0:05:13chest, even though it is expected to be below the 26 billion he
0:05:13 > 0:05:20identified in March.I think what the Chancellor is saying is, it will
0:05:20 > 0:05:25be silly to throw away all the good work we have done in getting down
0:05:25 > 0:05:30the deficit level about to turn the corner on debt. Of course I am
0:05:30 > 0:05:33listing in Mike Autumn Statement there was some headroom. Will look
0:05:33 > 0:05:38at other ways in which the headroom can be used to attack the problem so
0:05:38 > 0:05:44many people have spoken to me about. I am convinced he will be looking at
0:05:44 > 0:05:49some housing ideas. There are creative ones about looking at loan
0:05:49 > 0:05:53guarantees. Builders and things in that sort of era. Also he knows that
0:05:53 > 0:05:59we need to build more social housing and he will be looking at ways to
0:05:59 > 0:06:09encourage that.The astonishing fact is the difference in likelihood of
0:06:09 > 0:06:12someone voting Conservative, whether they have a mortgage, owned their
0:06:12 > 0:06:19own home or are in private rented or socially rented accommodation. The
0:06:19 > 0:06:23difference is dramatic. I know every single Conservative MP is very
0:06:23 > 0:06:30focused on that fact and on the reality which is that if we do not
0:06:30 > 0:06:35do something about this over the next three to four years before the
0:06:35 > 0:06:40next election, we will be writing ourselves out of the electoral
0:06:40 > 0:06:46script.We can expect a united Cabinet front next week. Not since
0:06:46 > 0:06:50the Blair- brambles has been such a poisonous atmosphere ahead the
0:06:50 > 0:06:56budget. One person told me Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are leading
0:06:56 > 0:07:00the internal charge against the Chancellor, because they feared the
0:07:00 > 0:07:10Treasury has grabbed hold of Brexit policy. What detail have you been
0:07:10 > 0:07:16hearing about the memorable legacy? The keyword in that report is
0:07:16 > 0:07:22headroom. When I was talking to Stephen hammered, -- Hammond, he
0:07:22 > 0:07:31kept repeating headroom. They say this has ticked up in recent weeks.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34He'll want to address the areas, particularly health and housing
0:07:34 > 0:07:38which caused the Tories such grief in the general election. What is
0:07:38 > 0:07:45interesting is the assumption had been the headroom would be used
0:07:45 > 0:07:49solely by the Chancellor to help him navigate what he expects to be a
0:07:49 > 0:07:54bumpy Brexit. Government sources are saying, no, it is there to help you
0:07:54 > 0:07:59when you have a slowing economy is and that is what we have at the
0:07:59 > 0:08:05moment.Talking about loan guarantees. All builders, it is not
0:08:05 > 0:08:11exactly splashy stuff.Remember, with Philip Hammond, he has built
0:08:11 > 0:08:16his entire career. He is not an accountant but he behaves like one.
0:08:16 > 0:08:22He is an incredibly cautious person. He does know that when, as Nick
0:08:22 > 0:08:28Bowles, we may have heard him we may have not met every age group under
0:08:28 > 0:08:3349 voted for the Labour majority and not the Conservatives. Philip
0:08:33 > 0:08:37Hammond understands that and we will see the war chest being dipped into.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41He still believes you have to be cautious and he will be sticking by
0:08:41 > 0:08:46the fiscal rules for a moment.We will be coming back to you later on
0:08:46 > 0:08:54that next week.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57Next week is going to be a busy one for the nation's political pundits.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01We have three of them here tonight to give us a sense of
0:09:01 > 0:09:02how they're feeling.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04I'm joined by Rachel Shabi, Ian Dale and Simon Jenkins.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07On the question of whether Philip Hammond will be safe or bold, will
0:09:07 > 0:09:10it be maybe be his last budget question what will he have to get
0:09:10 > 0:09:12something big out there?Every Chancellor needs to have a legacy.
0:09:12 > 0:09:17Something none of us can predict. Certainly not an increase in
0:09:17 > 0:09:21national insurance?I wouldn't think so. Expectations on housing had been
0:09:21 > 0:09:26raised through the roof, namely by his Cabinet colleague making the
0:09:26 > 0:09:31speech yesterday. Whatever he announces will not be enough people
0:09:31 > 0:09:37like Nick Bowles who want to see lots of progress on housing.All
0:09:37 > 0:09:42that talk on this intergenerational fairness, something has to be taken
0:09:42 > 0:09:48from the younger and given to the older Tory voters.It is a fallacy
0:09:48 > 0:09:51to think you buy votes from young people by appealing to their pocket.
0:09:51 > 0:09:57The problem he has is Jeremy Corbyn gave away the biggest election bribe
0:09:57 > 0:10:02in history by offering half the age cohort £50,000 for the university
0:10:02 > 0:10:06education. You cannot beat that. That was gigantic and irresponsible
0:10:06 > 0:10:11but massive. I think that is what moves them rather than housing.With
0:10:11 > 0:10:14it being neck and neck, you would expect the polls to be better for
0:10:14 > 0:10:21Labour. If there was a decent offer on housing, maybe stamp duty, a
0:10:21 > 0:10:24holiday for first-time buyers, it might send a signal actually they
0:10:24 > 0:10:28are looking after younger voters rather than the wealthier, older
0:10:28 > 0:10:34voters.No, no. This will not cut it. He cannot do it for that he
0:10:34 > 0:10:38cannot do it politically because of the divisions and chaos in the
0:10:38 > 0:10:43Government. He cannot do because it is not in his DNA, nor the
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Government's DNA to try to understand the economic crisis. They
0:10:46 > 0:10:51cannot grasp the causes of that they cannot grasp whether it is a
0:10:51 > 0:10:56systemic crisis. They do not understand the effect it is having
0:10:56 > 0:11:00on people's lives and hardship it is causing. How can they have any
0:11:00 > 0:11:09solutions?You have someone like Sergei Javits saying we need extra
0:11:09 > 0:11:23borrowing to build houses. -- Javid. The housing is bigger, 200,000 but
0:11:23 > 0:11:28what it needs to be is 400,000. They're all sorts of creative
0:11:28 > 0:11:34solutions but I'm not sure any of the parties have the answer.Can
0:11:34 > 0:11:39Hammond deliver that, especially in the fiscal rules?Housing is a mess.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43You do not build houses overnight. Can affect the private rented
0:11:43 > 0:11:49sector. Young people appreciate more social housing. The real problem is
0:11:49 > 0:11:56homelessness in cities. This assumption that you can throw money
0:11:56 > 0:12:00at young house-buyers and somehow help them. All it does is increase
0:12:00 > 0:12:07house prices.Do you think Labour has outflanked the Conservatives?
0:12:07 > 0:12:11Are they offering to younger people more than the question?Every
0:12:11 > 0:12:16student I have spoken to has said they were bowled over. They were
0:12:16 > 0:12:21offered £50,000.That is serious money. It is not. I am not
0:12:21 > 0:12:26underplaying this. Housing is a massive crisis. Student debt is a
0:12:26 > 0:12:33huge issue. There is a bigger picture here. That is about having a
0:12:33 > 0:12:37vision for an economic crisis.Let's talk about that. The whole question
0:12:37 > 0:12:42is, will this be the end of austerity? The NHS needs to suck in
0:12:42 > 0:12:48a lot more money now.I don't think they can do it. I don't think they
0:12:48 > 0:12:53can handle it. They don't have the kind of solutions they need for that
0:12:53 > 0:12:56we are looking at productivity rates which are flat-lining while people
0:12:56 > 0:13:02are working longer hours for less pay and working conditions with
0:13:02 > 0:13:06living costs rising. The system is failing. Tinkering around with
0:13:06 > 0:13:10things like stamp duty will not really cut it.There is a big thing
0:13:10 > 0:13:16that he has to go through the big boost of spending on infrastructure.
0:13:16 > 0:13:21They would say they are doing that already. The building programme at
0:13:21 > 0:13:25the moment is the biggest for many years that we can go down the road
0:13:25 > 0:13:30that John McDonnell wants to go down and spend £70 million on all sorts
0:13:30 > 0:13:35of things. We all want more money for the health service and
0:13:35 > 0:13:38education. The problem of Labour so far if they have not explained how
0:13:38 > 0:13:48they would pay for the massive splurge of spending.He does spend
0:13:48 > 0:13:53it. Anyone can do that. The real problem is the one that Nick
0:13:53 > 0:13:57identified. He wants to appear responsible without making a silly
0:13:57 > 0:14:03mistake like over national insurance. To do that, you need to
0:14:03 > 0:14:06form a very fine judgment as to how much a giveaway and how much you do
0:14:06 > 0:14:13not. The politics is he has to appear to be giving something away.
0:14:13 > 0:14:26Posterity Fx everybody. -- posterity affects everyone. Finding a way to
0:14:26 > 0:14:31appeared to be a generous Chancellor.He is going to do
0:14:31 > 0:14:35something bold. Presumably it is something that Theresa May agrees
0:14:35 > 0:14:41with.We don't know. We in a vacuum and do not know what is happening.
0:14:41 > 0:14:45In the end, all politicians are elected to government to decide how
0:14:45 > 0:14:50to cut up the public spending cake. In this budget most people are
0:14:50 > 0:14:55expecting a lot of money for the NHS. If he says we're going to put
0:14:55 > 0:15:00in an extra 2 billion, Rachel were saying that is not enough. We should
0:15:00 > 0:15:05put 4 billion in. Whatever the Chancellor is going to do he will be
0:15:05 > 0:15:08criticised.What I am saying is we need to get beyond this thing that
0:15:08 > 0:15:14there is only so much money. This is out of kilter with what most
0:15:14 > 0:15:18respected economists around the world and even those famous
0:15:18 > 0:15:22marketers at the IMF are saying, you have to invest in an economy. That
0:15:22 > 0:15:27is where you generate growth. That is mindful that you should borrow
0:15:27 > 0:15:33when there is low interest rates.
0:15:33 > 0:15:38What would you like to see that public requirement going into?When
0:15:38 > 0:15:42the Labour Party talked to businesses and representatives about
0:15:42 > 0:15:48this, they say, you are right, we do need this investment. We need
0:15:48 > 0:15:54infrastructure and skills.If we look at this as a very particular
0:15:54 > 0:16:03Budget, happening at a time, I would not say Brexit stasis, but Theresa
0:16:03 > 0:16:07May has been chided by Donald Tusk, and you have Phillip Hammond laying
0:16:07 > 0:16:14out his stall but he does not know what party it will be at or the end
0:16:14 > 0:16:19journey?He has to be a chance for all time, he cannot pretend this is
0:16:19 > 0:16:24my only Budget or this will come to an end in one year. It is very
0:16:24 > 0:16:29difficult but the problem with journalists as we're in a state of
0:16:29 > 0:16:35perpetual hysteria. I think we're all quite calm! I have lost track
0:16:35 > 0:16:42of, she survive... Until Christmas, now. Prime Minister tend to survive
0:16:42 > 0:16:47and chancellors as well. They tend to not get on very well. This is
0:16:47 > 0:16:54normal. Would anything break this Christmas not until there is a
0:16:54 > 0:16:58better alternative.We are in a situation where Phillip Hammond is
0:16:58 > 0:17:04determinedly soft as a Brexiteer and there is a difference of opinion as
0:17:04 > 0:17:08how this is being handled and Brexit is a huge focus, people don't know
0:17:08 > 0:17:15what is happening but there is more focused than the Budget?I would
0:17:15 > 0:17:21agree with a lot of what Simon said, apart from the last bit, I don't
0:17:21 > 0:17:26think he is safe, if she carries out a major reshuffle in January or
0:17:26 > 0:17:31February, she may be forced into a reshuffle before then...What do you
0:17:31 > 0:17:35think the impact of Brexit is on the Chancellor's thinking?This Budget
0:17:35 > 0:17:41is short-term because we don't know exactly what the Brexit outcome will
0:17:41 > 0:17:46be so it is very difficult for him to plan. He has to keep back some
0:17:46 > 0:17:52money in case we have no Deal, very reluctantly. I think he is looking
0:17:52 > 0:17:57to the short-term rally than long-term on Wednesday.Stay there.
0:17:57 > 0:18:03We're going to Hugh Muir -- hear more on Brexit.Two interesting
0:18:03 > 0:18:08developments, Donald Tusk has essentially said to Theresa May, you
0:18:08 > 0:18:13need to put more money on the table within two weeks, there is already
0:18:13 > 0:18:1720 billion euros, they want 60 billion, they want a bigger
0:18:17 > 0:18:22indication and the significance of the next two weeks is Donald Tusk
0:18:22 > 0:18:26once that before the European Council on the 14th of December,
0:18:26 > 0:18:31where EU leaders might say, yes, we can move onto the next stage and
0:18:31 > 0:18:37talk about trade and transition. David Davis was tickling that? He
0:18:37 > 0:18:42did a speech in Berlin and he said, we will be doing something in the
0:18:42 > 0:18:46next few weeks. He did not want to be specific and was clearly
0:18:46 > 0:18:49indicating that Britain would like to say it at the council and not
0:18:49 > 0:18:57beforehand.The Taoiseach has also been pretty vocal today.We offer a
0:18:57 > 0:19:02car has said that Britain has to put in writing that it will ensure there
0:19:02 > 0:19:05is no hard border in Ireland and that has to be done to ensure that
0:19:05 > 0:19:11he will agree to move onto the next age at the European Council.
0:19:11 > 0:19:16Interestingly, no member state has a veto over the Article 50 process.
0:19:16 > 0:19:23But there are three areas, Northern area -- Northern Ireland, citizens'
0:19:23 > 0:19:27rights and money and it is Ireland's moment in the sand and it is
0:19:27 > 0:19:30difficult to see how Donald Tusk could move on without the agreement
0:19:30 > 0:19:34of Ireland.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36One area where the Chancellor is widely expected to make
0:19:36 > 0:19:39an announcement in the Budget is the rules for the Government's
0:19:39 > 0:19:40flagship welfare programme, Universal Credit.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Labour forced a vote yesterday in the Commons on cutting
0:19:42 > 0:19:44the initial waiting time for Universal Credit
0:19:44 > 0:19:45from six weeks to four.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47It won, though Conservative MPs abstained and the Government
0:19:47 > 0:19:48has yet to respond.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51Critics argue that the inequalities and delays in the system have
0:19:51 > 0:19:53created new hardships for people.
0:19:53 > 0:19:54Newsnight filmmaker Stuart Denman went to Newcastle,
0:19:54 > 0:19:57one of the trial areas, where he spoke to three people
0:19:57 > 0:19:59who say it doesn't work for them.
0:19:59 > 0:20:04He began his quest at a food bank.
0:20:36 > 0:20:3713 weeks, it was.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40It was eight weeks and then it was another five weeks.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43You just had to try to pay what you needed to pay.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46But you weren't paying rent or council tax.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48I'm getting my money every month now, the same date.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51It's just the amount you get.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53It was bad enough when I was on the...
0:20:53 > 0:20:55It was £102, I think.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58It was bad enough then but now it is £72 a week.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01You cannot do it, it's impossible.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05It really is.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Ian has been on Universal Credit for about six months.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10He says he has not been under pressure to look for work,
0:21:10 > 0:21:13which he thinks is down to poor health.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15I have met you here at a food bank.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17How often do you come here?
0:21:17 > 0:21:18Once a week.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21And what do you do for the rest of the week for food?
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I get food out of the bin now and again, which I did
0:21:24 > 0:21:25a couple of days ago.
0:21:25 > 0:21:26Sandwiches.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28How old are you, Ian?
0:21:28 > 0:21:3054.
0:21:30 > 0:21:38Did you imagine life to be like this at 54?
0:21:38 > 0:21:43Not as bad as it is, I don't think.
0:21:43 > 0:21:46I knew without a job it was going to be really,
0:21:46 > 0:21:49really difficult but I didn't think it was going to get
0:21:49 > 0:21:50as difficult as it is.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51It's getting out of hand now.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54If you're not in a family you may as well not exist.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58If you can't buy your own house you may as well not exist.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01Ian later tells me he will be receiving an additional allowance
0:22:01 > 0:22:04for caring for a friend so he is now more optimistic about getting
0:22:04 > 0:22:08by on Universal Credit without work.
0:22:08 > 0:22:10But what if Universal Credit is actually putting
0:22:10 > 0:22:13you off finding work?
0:22:13 > 0:22:17I have been on the Universal Credit system as a carer, which means
0:22:17 > 0:22:20I don't have to actively seek work at this point in time
0:22:20 > 0:22:26because my daughter receives a disability allowance.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29I have received my first payment in July.
0:22:29 > 0:22:34It went as smoothly as it could apart from the fact that
0:22:34 > 0:22:39I didn't get the amount I was expecting and also
0:22:39 > 0:22:42I subsequently found out that, despite keeping them informed,
0:22:42 > 0:22:47I had a legacy debt that has accrued by having claimed tax credits.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50How much is that debt?
0:22:50 > 0:22:54£2800.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56In 2012, Lynne was made redundant from a well-paid role
0:22:56 > 0:22:58in the public sector.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01She was able to find short-term consultancy jobs but increasingly
0:23:01 > 0:23:04had to depend on benefits to get by.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06She sold her two-bedroom flat to make ends meet and now
0:23:06 > 0:23:09she and her two teenage daughters live in privately
0:23:09 > 0:23:11rented accommodation.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14The option is to either go back into well-paid work,
0:23:14 > 0:23:20which isn't necessarily available, or in terms of downsizing or trying
0:23:20 > 0:23:24to manage within the benefits system, then that is not going to be
0:23:24 > 0:23:31possible under Universal Credit.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33Lynne feels it would be too complicated to accept ad-hoc
0:23:33 > 0:23:35consultancy work while on Universal Credit.
0:23:35 > 0:23:36It's too unstable.
0:23:36 > 0:23:40If you have high peak months, like seasonal, or you get a contract
0:23:40 > 0:23:43that is three months but you don't work for two but you earn that
0:23:43 > 0:23:47amount, you are going to be in and out of the benefits system.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49You can't wait six weeks every time.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53I am an extremely resourceful person and now I am in the position where,
0:23:53 > 0:23:56through the austerity measures that the government have implemented
0:23:56 > 0:24:01and the system of support has left me in this situation more
0:24:01 > 0:24:10than I have left myself.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12I would be better off handing my taxi badge
0:24:12 > 0:24:14in and going and signing on.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17I would get more money by not working.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20Which I can't understand at all.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22Robert is a self-employed taxi driver.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25When he applied for Universal Credit, an appointment
0:24:25 > 0:24:27was arranged for him to prove he was self-employed.
0:24:27 > 0:24:31But on the day of the interview he was offered a fixed taxi fare
0:24:31 > 0:24:33of £90, which he took instead.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35The appointment was eventually rescheduled
0:24:35 > 0:24:37but he missed that one, too.
0:24:37 > 0:24:38You missed two appointments?
0:24:38 > 0:24:44Yeah.
0:24:44 > 0:24:45But that was to take work?
0:24:45 > 0:24:46Yeah.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Part of your claimant commitment is you can't refuse paid work.
0:24:49 > 0:24:50But you must attend all interviews.
0:24:50 > 0:24:52How can you do both?
0:24:52 > 0:24:54You're desperate for money.
0:24:54 > 0:24:58That's the option you're going to take every time.
0:24:58 > 0:25:00Robert's payments started eventually, which he combined
0:25:00 > 0:25:02with his taxi earnings.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04But in September he was thrown by a much lower payment
0:25:04 > 0:25:05than he had expected.
0:25:05 > 0:25:07It tipped him over the edge.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10Unable to pay the taxi company he was working through,
0:25:10 > 0:25:11they parted company.
0:25:11 > 0:25:15Robert was suddenly unemployed.
0:25:15 > 0:25:19I hid in my bedroom for nearly two weeks.
0:25:19 > 0:25:25And I only went out of the bedroom to go to the toilet.
0:25:25 > 0:25:30My children went to stay with my parents for a little while.
0:25:30 > 0:25:35Purely because I didn't have the money to feed them.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38Because they weren't there, I got more depressed.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41I didn't open any of my mail.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45I wasn't answering my phone.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Adding to an already bad month, rent arrears that predated his time
0:25:48 > 0:25:52on Universal Credit were about to become a problem.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54He visited his GP one day.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57When he returned home with a sick note and antidepressants,
0:25:57 > 0:25:59he found that the locks had been changed.
0:25:59 > 0:26:03I had been given seven days to remove my possessions
0:26:03 > 0:26:07and to leave the property.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09And the seven days were up.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12That's why they said the bailiffs round and changed
0:26:12 > 0:26:14the locks and everything.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17But you didn't know that, you hadn't been opening your mail?
0:26:17 > 0:26:18No.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21Robert discovered that September's low payment was because of problems
0:26:21 > 0:26:24with something called the minimum income floor, which is an assumption
0:26:24 > 0:26:27about a self-employed person's monthly earnings.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30As a primary carer of two children under 16, Robert's calculation
0:26:30 > 0:26:34should have been based on a 25 hour working week, meaning
0:26:34 > 0:26:37they would expect him to earn about £800 in a normal month.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40But instead, they had used a 35 hour week and assumed
0:26:40 > 0:26:43he would earn more than £1000.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45Because the error meant they expected him to get more
0:26:45 > 0:26:48in earnings, they paid him less in Universal Credit.
0:26:48 > 0:26:54They said, don't worry, we will fix the mistake.
0:26:54 > 0:26:59They put the wrong postcode on the letter or something.
0:26:59 > 0:27:02It cost me my livelihood.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05Robert received a letter admitting the mistake and his monthly
0:27:05 > 0:27:07payment was adjusted.
0:27:07 > 0:27:09But in reviewing his case, they also calculated that
0:27:09 > 0:27:12in the initial months, he had actually been overpaid by...
0:27:12 > 0:27:15£717.59.
0:27:15 > 0:27:19And a request to make an arrangement to pay it back.
0:27:19 > 0:27:24It's one mistake after another.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26Robert is now taxi driving again.
0:27:26 > 0:27:30Unsurprisingly, he has no faith in Universal Credit.
0:27:30 > 0:27:32He takes particular issue with the minimum income floor,
0:27:32 > 0:27:37which doesn't recognise that sole traders may end up earning less
0:27:37 > 0:27:40than the national minimum wage if they have a bad month.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42If I don't make that minimum income floor,
0:27:42 > 0:27:51I don't get any extra money, any help at all.
0:27:51 > 0:27:54When Universal Credit came to Newcastle, it
0:27:54 > 0:27:57promised to bring fairness, simplicity and an incentive to work.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59And it has, for some.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02But for others, it's yet to prove that it has brought any
0:28:02 > 0:28:07one of these things, let alone all three.
0:28:07 > 0:28:08Stuart Denman there.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11We did ask the Department for Work and Pensions to join us
0:28:11 > 0:28:14on the programme tonight but no minister was available.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18In a statement, the department said Universal Credit lay at the heart
0:28:18 > 0:28:20of the Government's commitment to help people improve their lives
0:28:20 > 0:28:21and raise their incomes.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24They said the vast majority of claimants are paid in full
0:28:24 > 0:28:26and on time and that support is available for anyone
0:28:26 > 0:28:28who needs extra help.
0:28:28 > 0:28:33Well, Rachel, Ian and Simon are still here.
0:28:33 > 0:28:40Rachel, it is fair to say that the government and the opposition
0:28:40 > 0:28:44believe Universal Credit is the right thing and is here to stay?I
0:28:44 > 0:28:50think Universal Credit should be stopped until we get rid of this
0:28:50 > 0:28:55government, frankly. They cannot handle it. They are still defending
0:28:55 > 0:29:01Universal Credit despite the fact that everyone who has anything to do
0:29:01 > 0:29:05with it, claimants, local authorities, food banks, the church,
0:29:05 > 0:29:11says it is plunging people into poverty and debt.If you talk to
0:29:11 > 0:29:16Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, they think the principle is right to
0:29:16 > 0:29:19incentivise people so the Phillip Hammond does something in the Budget
0:29:19 > 0:29:25about the delivery of that?That would be a good thing? Perhaps the
0:29:25 > 0:29:29principle of simplifying it is a good thing but I am not sure, that
0:29:29 > 0:29:37might be an illusion. But in any case, the government have had so
0:29:37 > 0:29:42much evidence that it is not working so we're left with two
0:29:42 > 0:29:45possibilities, either they are indifferent to the level of
0:29:45 > 0:29:49suffering they are causing or just clueless and I don't know what is
0:29:49 > 0:29:54worse.Is it fair to say it was rolled out to some?It is a disgrace
0:29:54 > 0:29:57that there isn't a government minister on the programme to defend
0:29:57 > 0:30:04it and I will not on that role. Whenever you introduce a complicated
0:30:04 > 0:30:08system, even if you think you are simplifying it, there will
0:30:08 > 0:30:11inevitably be teething problems but they have had time to understand
0:30:11 > 0:30:16those problems and the six-week period, everyone would agree, needs
0:30:16 > 0:30:20to be shortened. I think they will probably shorten that in the Budget
0:30:20 > 0:30:25to five weeks and it should be four. I don't agree with pausing this
0:30:25 > 0:30:32because the film had three people... We know that Eddie people...It
0:30:32 > 0:30:37still leaves 20? I'm not saying that is not a bad thing and I have
0:30:37 > 0:30:41conducted hours of phone-ins on the subject and when you have three
0:30:41 > 0:30:47people in a row crying down the phone to you, you can be a hardened
0:30:47 > 0:30:52Thatcherite and you will be affected by that.Just a second, will Phillip
0:30:52 > 0:30:58Hammond address this on Wednesday? Yes, I know he will. Whether he does
0:30:58 > 0:31:04it as Ian suggests, I don't know. It is incredible, people are in favour
0:31:04 > 0:31:09of the principle. What is extraordinary is this six-week delay
0:31:09 > 0:31:12intended to get people used to being paid in arrears as if they were then
0:31:12 > 0:31:17work demonstrates such a failure of the psychology of people in
0:31:17 > 0:31:21difficulty.Thank you.
0:31:21 > 0:31:22That's all for this evening.
0:31:22 > 0:31:25But before we go, have you ever wondered what it's like to enter
0:31:25 > 0:31:28Mars' atmosphere at twice the speed of sound attached to a parachute?
0:31:28 > 0:31:33Goodnight.
0:31:34 > 0:31:38Slow motion, in video originally shot at 1000 frames per second.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41But played back here at 30 frames per second, we see the initial
0:31:41 > 0:31:44suspension lines pulling out of the pack and taking the parachute
0:31:44 > 0:31:48backwards, where it will ultimately inflate in merely half a second.