22/11/2017

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0:00:04 > 0:00:07He made us laugh...

0:00:07 > 0:00:10I did take the precaution of asking my right honourable friend

0:00:10 > 0:00:12to bring a packet of cough sweets, just in case.

0:00:12 > 0:00:15He made us cry...

0:00:15 > 0:00:18Regrettably, our productivity performance continues to disappoint.

0:00:18 > 0:00:23But did he do enough for the country?

0:00:23 > 0:00:25It's been a ragged old few weeks for the government,

0:00:25 > 0:00:29at a difficult time for the country.

0:00:29 > 0:00:33Budget day is the big chance for Chancellors to show they've

0:00:33 > 0:00:36got a grip on things.

0:00:36 > 0:00:38With some serious economic downgrades, we'll ask

0:00:38 > 0:00:39where the budget leaves us.

0:00:39 > 0:00:41We have our home team of specialist correspondents.

0:00:41 > 0:00:43We'll hear from the Government Treasury team,

0:00:43 > 0:00:44as well as the opposition.

0:00:44 > 0:00:49We'll digest the day with our panel of commentators.

0:00:49 > 0:00:53And we're all here in Bury to bring you the first focus

0:00:53 > 0:00:55group since the Chancellor made that budget speech.

0:00:55 > 0:01:05What do they think of what he's offering today?

0:01:06 > 0:01:07Hello.

0:01:07 > 0:01:09The budget headline: Britain isn't quite the strong economy

0:01:09 > 0:01:10we'd hoped or thought.

0:01:10 > 0:01:11And that's official.

0:01:11 > 0:01:14The sixth biggest economy in the world, the Chancellor

0:01:14 > 0:01:20told us, not the fifth as it is often described.

0:01:20 > 0:01:23Our new budget forecasts predict growth over the next five

0:01:23 > 0:01:24years to be lacklustre.

0:01:24 > 0:01:25Less than 2% all the way.

0:01:25 > 0:01:29Pathetic is a term that comes to mind.

0:01:29 > 0:01:33Not that you would have thought so from the early paragraphs

0:01:33 > 0:01:35of Philip Hammond's speech, with an upbeat description

0:01:35 > 0:01:37of Britain's ability to benefit from the white heat

0:01:37 > 0:01:38of a new technology revolution.

0:01:38 > 0:01:43For the first time in decades Britain is genuinely

0:01:43 > 0:01:45at the forefront of this technological revolution.

0:01:45 > 0:01:51Not just in our universities and research institutes,

0:01:51 > 0:01:54but this time in the commercial development labs of our great

0:01:54 > 0:01:57companies and on factory floors and business parks across this land.

0:01:57 > 0:01:59But we must invest to secure that bright future for Britain.

0:01:59 > 0:02:03And at this budget, that is what we choose to do.

0:02:03 > 0:02:05Well, park that thought, because we soon had to get

0:02:05 > 0:02:11into the nitty gritty.

0:02:11 > 0:02:15And two big things stuck out for me.

0:02:15 > 0:02:16First, that low growth.

0:02:16 > 0:02:19It's all about productivity, the amount we produce

0:02:19 > 0:02:23for an hour of work.

0:02:23 > 0:02:28In the past, productivity tended to go up as we get better at things.

0:02:28 > 0:02:31But look here at the graph - when the financial crash came,

0:02:31 > 0:02:37it fell right back.

0:02:37 > 0:02:40And for years now, the OBR have been forecasting that it'll bounce back.

0:02:40 > 0:02:45These are the last few forecasts.

0:02:45 > 0:02:51But actual productivity simply stagnated.

0:02:51 > 0:02:54So now they've scaled back the forecast.

0:02:54 > 0:02:57And from that, all other bad news follows.

0:02:57 > 0:03:00Borrowing, for example, is not coming down nearly as fast

0:03:00 > 0:03:01as the Chancellor wanted.

0:03:01 > 0:03:04And this is not just a temporary recession either.

0:03:04 > 0:03:07Nor is this Brexit - that could still muck everything up

0:03:07 > 0:03:09as the forecast assumes it goes fairly smoothly.

0:03:09 > 0:03:12No, this is a downgrading of our economic potential.

0:03:12 > 0:03:16The productivity bounceback is like an awkward date -

0:03:16 > 0:03:19you wait for them to show up at the restaurant,

0:03:19 > 0:03:25after ten years you decide they are probably not coming.

0:03:25 > 0:03:29The OBR has assumed at each of the last 16 fiscal events that

0:03:29 > 0:03:32productivity growth would return to its pre-crisis trend

0:03:32 > 0:03:37of about 2% a year, but it has remained stubbornly flat.

0:03:37 > 0:03:40So today they revise down the outlook for productivity growth,

0:03:40 > 0:03:41business investment, and GDP growth across

0:03:41 > 0:03:50the forecast period.

0:03:50 > 0:03:52That line was more important than everything else

0:03:52 > 0:03:58in the speech combined.

0:03:58 > 0:04:00But a second striking feature of this budget concerns public

0:04:00 > 0:04:01spending and austerity.

0:04:01 > 0:04:06After the last six elections, we've had big tax rises to pay

0:04:06 > 0:04:07for extra public spending.

0:04:07 > 0:04:10Not this time.

0:04:10 > 0:04:12An historic shift.

0:04:12 > 0:04:17And yet, we still have spending cuts baked in to our plans,

0:04:17 > 0:04:18Sizeable spending cuts.

0:04:18 > 0:04:22Here's the graph.

0:04:22 > 0:04:25Per capita spending on government services from 2015 to 2022.

0:04:25 > 0:04:29So is this really do-able?

0:04:29 > 0:04:31Today the Chancellor bunged some billions into the public sector

0:04:31 > 0:04:34to ease the pain in the next couple of years but he's still

0:04:34 > 0:04:38budgeting on pain later.

0:04:38 > 0:04:39Well, that's two big themes.

0:04:39 > 0:04:42There's a lot more to talk about, notably three billion for Brexit

0:04:42 > 0:04:45and lots on housing.

0:04:45 > 0:04:55But here's Nick Watt with his take on the day.

0:04:57 > 0:05:00We have known him as spreadsheet Phil, the cautious and rather dull

0:05:00 > 0:05:01guardian of the nation's public finances.

0:05:01 > 0:05:04But after that hammering at the general election, did the new

0:05:04 > 0:05:12spendthrift Phil step onto the stage?

0:05:12 > 0:05:14The Chancellor unveiled what the Treasury billed an extra 25

0:05:14 > 0:05:18billion in spending and in easing of taxes over the next five years.

0:05:18 > 0:05:20This has been a wretched year for the

0:05:20 > 0:05:22government after Theresa May lost her parliamentary majority in June.

0:05:22 > 0:05:25The Tories were deeply unsettled by Labour success in winning over

0:05:25 > 0:05:28younger voters who believed austerity had had itS day.

0:05:28 > 0:05:33And then there are the warring Brexit

0:05:33 > 0:05:36factions who are overshadowing the work of this government and putting

0:05:36 > 0:05:37one minister in the firing line.

0:05:37 > 0:05:43So today Philip Hammond needed to reset

0:05:43 > 0:05:47the dial for the Tories by reasserting his own authority and

0:05:47 > 0:05:53making clear he hears that cry of frustration in June.

0:05:53 > 0:05:57We are listening and we understand the frustration of

0:05:57 > 0:05:58families where real incomes are under pressure,

0:05:58 > 0:05:59so at this budget we

0:05:59 > 0:06:01choose a balanced approach.

0:06:01 > 0:06:11Yes, maintaining fiscal responsibility as

0:06:13 > 0:06:14we at last see our debt peaking.

0:06:14 > 0:06:17Continuing to invest in the skills and infrastructure that will support

0:06:17 > 0:06:18the jobs of the future.

0:06:18 > 0:06:20Building the homes that will make good on our

0:06:20 > 0:06:22promise to the next generation.

0:06:22 > 0:06:23Jeremy Corbyn thought the budget had failed

0:06:23 > 0:06:25its first test, improving the

0:06:25 > 0:06:28lives of ordinary people.

0:06:28 > 0:06:31Utter complacency about the crisis facing

0:06:31 > 0:06:35our public services and complacent about the reality of daily life for

0:06:35 > 0:06:41millions of people in this country.

0:06:41 > 0:06:44Entirely out of touch with that reality of life for millions.

0:06:44 > 0:06:51While this had the trappings of a normal

0:06:51 > 0:06:52budget day, there was a different feel.

0:06:52 > 0:06:55The Chancellor's team were very keen to talk up the extra

0:06:55 > 0:06:58spending and in language that would have been unthinkable until

0:06:58 > 0:07:02relatively recently they talked about fiscal loosening.

0:07:02 > 0:07:06So is this Chancellor really turning the taps?

0:07:06 > 0:07:14Well, the answer to that in the words

0:07:14 > 0:07:17of Evelyn Waugh is up to a

0:07:17 > 0:07:18point, Lord Copper.

0:07:18 > 0:07:21This budget does mark a limited net giveaway to help

0:07:21 > 0:07:23the economy after the dramatic downgrade in growth forecasts with

0:07:23 > 0:07:26measures such as the abolition of stamp duty for most first-time

0:07:26 > 0:07:27buyers.

0:07:27 > 0:07:30But then take aways are pencilled in for the early part of

0:07:30 > 0:07:31next decade.

0:07:31 > 0:07:34The big news in the budget was really the first few

0:07:34 > 0:07:36minutes when he explained that the growth forecasts had been

0:07:36 > 0:07:41downgraded.

0:07:41 > 0:07:43It has massive knock-on implications, far less government

0:07:43 > 0:07:48revenue, higher public borrowing and a decline in people's living

0:07:48 > 0:07:50standards beyond what they were led to expect before the election.

0:07:50 > 0:07:53That is £700 a head at the end of the

0:07:53 > 0:07:54parliament.

0:07:54 > 0:07:56There was a mixed reception amongst Tory MPs.

0:07:56 > 0:07:57Some were a little underwhelmed, but I

0:07:57 > 0:08:00spoke to one leading Brexit supporter who told me, I am

0:08:00 > 0:08:03delighted with this budget and I was hoping to get rid

0:08:03 > 0:08:06of Philip Hammond just a few weeks ago.

0:08:06 > 0:08:09But the Chancellor faces a delicate balancing act as he seeks to win

0:08:09 > 0:08:14back those younger voters who believe austerity has had its day.

0:08:14 > 0:08:16He needs to spend in a way that does not spook

0:08:16 > 0:08:18the market but he needs to

0:08:18 > 0:08:21deliver change with enough of a flourish

0:08:21 > 0:08:25that the Tories get the

0:08:25 > 0:08:28credit - a mini me Labour budget would probably rebound.

0:08:28 > 0:08:32I think this budget effectively effectively did

0:08:32 > 0:08:37not go in for Corbyn light.

0:08:37 > 0:08:39That is what I most feared, that he would

0:08:39 > 0:08:44listen to some of the dafter voices lobbying, trying to press him to

0:08:44 > 0:08:47give into as many lobbies as possible to try to buy a few votes.

0:08:47 > 0:08:49Even Corbyn light is not affordable.

0:08:49 > 0:08:51First, get the economy on a sustainable and reasonable path,

0:08:51 > 0:08:58then decide how best to spend the revenues that will produce.

0:08:58 > 0:09:00If he was just handing out money today, I

0:09:00 > 0:09:03would have been very worried indeed.

0:09:03 > 0:09:09One Labour critic of Jeremy Corbyn thought the budget failed the

0:09:09 > 0:09:14challenge set by her party at the election.

0:09:14 > 0:09:16There is nothing really hopeful or inspiring about today's

0:09:16 > 0:09:17budget.

0:09:17 > 0:09:20There is nothing that says we are going to get productivity

0:09:20 > 0:09:23going up, this is a country about to get up and start looking after

0:09:23 > 0:09:24itself.

0:09:24 > 0:09:27Actually what it is is growth is down and productivity is

0:09:27 > 0:09:30down and spending cuts have caused growth to be down, so it is just

0:09:30 > 0:09:36more of the same lack of hope from a hopeless government.

0:09:36 > 0:09:38Philip Hammond has for now earned a reprieve with a

0:09:38 > 0:09:41budget that was relatively well received on the Tory benches, but

0:09:41 > 0:09:44budgets that go down well on day one can often run into trouble

0:09:44 > 0:09:54further down the line.

0:09:56 > 0:09:58When Chancellors get punished for budget mishaps,

0:09:58 > 0:10:01it tends not to be the really bad news that gets them,

0:10:01 > 0:10:03the downgrade of growth or whatever.

0:10:03 > 0:10:05It is usually the specific measures that entangle them in knots.

0:10:05 > 0:10:07Today, the specific measures that were the headline

0:10:07 > 0:10:08grabbers related to housing.

0:10:08 > 0:10:11Getting the young who feel shut out of the housing market back in,

0:10:11 > 0:10:13and back in love with the Tories.

0:10:13 > 0:10:15Our business editor Helen Thomas is here.

0:10:15 > 0:10:17Also is Chris Cook who's been looking at the NHS

0:10:17 > 0:10:20and public spending.

0:10:20 > 0:10:24Let us start Ities, with you, the NHS, not cracking open the

0:10:24 > 0:10:29champagne.You can forgive a bit of irritation in Whitehall, with NHS

0:10:29 > 0:10:35leaders today. They have put in about 2 billion next year, a further

0:10:35 > 0:10:393.6 billion over the rest of the Parliament, in capital, the slight

0:10:39 > 0:10:45problem is that the NHS made clear that they thought they wanted 4

0:10:45 > 0:10:49billion to make the sums up next year and 10 billion of capital over

0:10:49 > 0:10:52the rest of the Parliament, to modernise the estate and make sure

0:10:52 > 0:10:56the hospitals can keep up with the ever rising demand for health care,

0:10:56 > 0:11:02the thing is the NHS has this odd structure, we have a chief executive

0:11:02 > 0:11:07of the NHS, we have a chair of the NHS England, and they are

0:11:07 > 0:11:11independent, they are allowed do what they like, they have started

0:11:11 > 0:11:14campaigning for more money, so we have this odd thing, they have been

0:11:14 > 0:11:19given 2 billion, 3.6 over the rest of the Parliament and Sir Malcolm

0:11:19 > 0:11:23Grant says the extra money is welcome, but he say, we can no

0:11:23 > 0:11:26longer avoid the difficulty debate about what is possible to deliver

0:11:26 > 0:11:29for patients with the money available. They will have a board

0:11:29 > 0:11:34meeting to discuss what they do and don't do on November 30th.That is

0:11:34 > 0:11:38big news.Yes.What about briefly, the rest of public spending, because

0:11:38 > 0:11:42there is a squeeze coming to a few departments, even though they have

0:11:42 > 0:11:46had one.The critical thing is we don't know where it will go, because

0:11:46 > 0:11:51there is a sort of cliff edge in the budget beyond which we know nothing

0:11:51 > 0:11:54about public spending and huge amount of pain is concentrated in

0:11:54 > 0:12:02the mystery years.Thank you. Helen. Eye-catching measures on housing, a

0:12:02 > 0:12:06stamp duty removal for first-time buyers.It was the headline grabber

0:12:06 > 0:12:13so this zero stamp duty for Bayers of up to £300,000 you can save for

0:12:13 > 0:12:19up to 5 grand on a property of up to a million pounds, this is sticky in

0:12:19 > 0:12:23a few ways, Ed Miliband proposed a similar policy in 2015 and the

0:12:23 > 0:12:26Conservatives called it a gimmick sand said it had been tried before

0:12:26 > 0:12:31and failed. The Office for Budget Responsibility said today, that when

0:12:31 > 0:12:35it has been tried before, the savings have basically been

0:12:35 > 0:12:38incorporated into hiring house prices and it hasn't helped

0:12:38 > 0:12:43affordability. It is worth thinking about, the average first time buy e

0:12:43 > 0:12:49the purchase prize is 210,000, so they will save about £1700. The

0:12:49 > 0:12:53bigger savings is for Bayers of more expensive property, if you are in a

0:12:53 > 0:12:58part of the country with lower house price, plenty of properties for

0:12:58 > 0:13:02under 125,000, it doesn't change things.Look, one of the things they

0:13:02 > 0:13:05have said, is the real measures have to get the supply of housing up and

0:13:05 > 0:13:10there was a lot in the budget. At the end of the budget there is a

0:13:10 > 0:13:14rabbit...There was. A big headline number was 44 billion in support for

0:13:14 > 0:13:20the housing market. Now actually only about 15 billion of that is new

0:13:20 > 0:13:24measures announced today. The rest was already out there. And most of

0:13:24 > 0:13:30that when you lock at it was either loans or loan guarantee, especially

0:13:30 > 0:13:35to new builder, so private sector builders, when you come down to cold

0:13:35 > 0:13:39hard cash, spending announced today was about 6 billion over five year,

0:13:39 > 0:13:43so that sounds less impressive. What I will say is that the housing

0:13:43 > 0:13:47experts I have spoken to like some of the areas that money is going

0:13:47 > 0:13:55into. So they like the signs of a more robust approach, and they like

0:13:55 > 0:13:57this definite focus on resuscitating the smaller end of the house

0:13:57 > 0:14:03building market. OK. Thank you.

0:14:03 > 0:14:06Well, this government has had a turbulent time in recent weeks.

0:14:06 > 0:14:08Brexit is basically one concession to the Europeans after another,

0:14:08 > 0:14:12and there is a sense of a lack of vision about that and more.

0:14:12 > 0:14:14A government treading time to see where things will go.

0:14:14 > 0:14:17So does this budget show a government with a direction?

0:14:17 > 0:14:19I'm joined by Liz Truss, who is Philip Hammond's deputy

0:14:19 > 0:14:22Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

0:14:22 > 0:14:24Also with us, Peter Dowd, her Labour opposite number.

0:14:24 > 0:14:27We'll come to you in a minute.

0:14:27 > 0:14:33Let me start with Liz. Can we start on that housing, the Office for

0:14:33 > 0:14:36Budget Responsibility say on the stamp duty measure, the main gainers

0:14:36 > 0:14:41from the policy are the people who already own property not the first

0:14:41 > 0:14:44time buyers themselves. Because your measure will push up the prices, so

0:14:44 > 0:14:48the owners benefit not the Bayers.I think lots of people are struggling

0:14:48 > 0:14:53to get on the housing ladder, there are many people in that 20s and 30s

0:14:53 > 0:14:57who previously would have been able to buy a home, now finding it much

0:14:57 > 0:15:01more difficult and of course, we need to increase the supply of homes

0:15:01 > 0:15:05and that is what the measures are about and getting up to 300,000, but

0:15:05 > 0:15:09we felt it was necessary to do something now, to help those who

0:15:09 > 0:15:17have struggled for a number of years,

0:15:17 > 0:15:22But you are not helping them if you simply push the price of houses up?

0:15:22 > 0:15:28People will not have to pay the tax up to 300000 and they will have a

0:15:28 > 0:15:31reduction up to 500,000. That is cash you are not paying to the

0:15:31 > 0:15:37taxman.But you are paying the higher price. Do you agree with the

0:15:37 > 0:15:42statement by the budget of office regulation that the main gainers are

0:15:42 > 0:15:46the people who own property?The main gainers are people who will be

0:15:46 > 0:15:53able to buy their own home.You are saying something different. They

0:15:53 > 0:15:58said the main gainers were people who own property.That is who we are

0:15:58 > 0:16:04aiming to help.You disagree with their analysis?Their analysis

0:16:04 > 0:16:09suggests that overall the impact on house prices will be 3%. That is a

0:16:09 > 0:16:16minor increase and what we are looking at...It is not a minor

0:16:16 > 0:16:22increase for people who are buying! The people we want to help other

0:16:22 > 0:16:29people we want to exempt from tax. Why did the Tory party say it was a

0:16:29 > 0:16:32panicky, underfunded announcement and failed last time when Labour

0:16:32 > 0:16:37suggested this in the 2015 election? This is funded announcement, our

0:16:37 > 0:16:44budget package fully funded.You called it a gimmick and you said it

0:16:44 > 0:16:47failed. Why would you pick up something that Labour suggested two

0:16:47 > 0:16:51years ago which you said was a failure? The Treasury announcement

0:16:51 > 0:16:56said when it was tried before it did not have a significant impact in

0:16:56 > 0:17:00improving affordability for first-time buyers. The Tory party,

0:17:00 > 0:17:03the Treasury, the Office for Budget Responsibility all said it was

0:17:03 > 0:17:08stupid.We except the big issue is supply and we need to expand supply,

0:17:08 > 0:17:13but there is a need in the short term to help people out because

0:17:13 > 0:17:15people are struggling and we recognise people are struggling with

0:17:15 > 0:17:23getting on the ladder.Are we not in an era where you are actually saying

0:17:23 > 0:17:29that by refusing to entertain the notion that not helping people, but

0:17:29 > 0:17:32you are just making gestures to show that you care and you listen and it

0:17:32 > 0:17:37does not matter whether it works, it is more about what it says. We know

0:17:37 > 0:17:42it does not work because of all these people who say...I am a

0:17:42 > 0:17:47believer in low taxation. If we can exempt people from taxes, lower

0:17:47 > 0:17:51taxes for hard-pressed people, we have done it on the lower allowance

0:17:51 > 0:17:56and giving basic tax rate payers £1000 of they would have paid and it

0:17:56 > 0:18:00is the right thing for a Conservative government to be doing.

0:18:00 > 0:18:09Let's move on to spending. We heard Chris saying the NHS is sitting down

0:18:09 > 0:18:14and they need to work out what they are going to do and not do. What

0:18:14 > 0:18:18would be your advice over what the NHS should stop doing because they

0:18:18 > 0:18:23do not have the funds?We understand there are pressures in the NHS. We

0:18:23 > 0:18:27have seen a big increase in the number of people going to A&E and a

0:18:27 > 0:18:31big increase in the number having operations and there is pressure on

0:18:31 > 0:18:36the NHS. That is why whilst keeping to our fiscal rules we have found

0:18:36 > 0:18:41that extra money for the NHS. We have also said we were looked at

0:18:41 > 0:18:45funding for a package for nurses and other NHS workers as well because we

0:18:45 > 0:18:52recognise how hard those people work and we do want to be able to.They

0:18:52 > 0:18:55say they cannot do everything on the budget they are given at the moment,

0:18:55 > 0:19:00what would you like them to stop doing in order to stick to the

0:19:00 > 0:19:05budget?A lot of the money we are putting in its capital to be able to

0:19:05 > 0:19:09modernised NHS facilities and that should enable the NHS to improve its

0:19:09 > 0:19:14productivity and be able to do more. That is the whole purpose of that

0:19:14 > 0:19:22capital funding.You say they can do everything.We are giving them

0:19:22 > 0:19:26capital money to help transform the service so they can do more.When it

0:19:26 > 0:19:31comes to things like NHS targets on waiting times and A&E which are

0:19:31 > 0:19:36being failed all the time everywhere at the moment, is there a chance

0:19:36 > 0:19:40that we will start meeting those targets?Absolutely.They will say

0:19:40 > 0:19:47we cannot do it on this money, are they wrong?I am not saying they are

0:19:47 > 0:19:51wrong, absolutely not, but I am saying the money we are putting in

0:19:51 > 0:19:55should help us reach those targets. That is why we are putting the money

0:19:55 > 0:19:59in and we have looked at how that will help achieve those targets in

0:19:59 > 0:20:03conjunction with the money we are putting in to modernise facilities

0:20:03 > 0:20:08and what we are looking at on pay as well for nurses and other staff.I

0:20:08 > 0:20:12know you are not the Health Secretary, but you either public

0:20:12 > 0:20:15spending secretary, when do you think they will be able to get back

0:20:15 > 0:20:19into those targets?This will help make positive progress towards those

0:20:19 > 0:20:26targets over the next few years.You used to be Justice Secretary and the

0:20:26 > 0:20:30Justice budget has about 25% in real time cuts over the last seven years

0:20:30 > 0:20:36and it is getting another 15% or thereabouts. Do you think seriously

0:20:36 > 0:20:39you can cut the Justice budget by that amount when you see what the

0:20:39 > 0:20:46state of prisons are at the moment? We have an extra 100 million into

0:20:46 > 0:20:50prisons every year and we are successfully recruiting more prison

0:20:50 > 0:20:55officers, so we have made more real progress and we are getting more

0:20:55 > 0:21:01officers in our prisons and it is fair to say the situation...If you

0:21:01 > 0:21:05were Justice Secretary, do you think you could take 15% out of that

0:21:05 > 0:21:09budget without shocking conditions in prisons? That is the policy at

0:21:09 > 0:21:14the moment. I am wondering if you think you can deliver it.I am

0:21:14 > 0:21:17saying we put in an extra 100 million to deal with those staff

0:21:17 > 0:21:26measures.So they will not make the 15% cut?There are ways in different

0:21:26 > 0:21:29services like using modern technology, cutting out some of the

0:21:29 > 0:21:37paperwork and processes. If I can give you an example... Let me give

0:21:37 > 0:21:41you an example of the police force. I went out with the Northern

0:21:41 > 0:21:50Constabulary and they now use body cameras, they did not need to go

0:21:50 > 0:21:53back to the police station, they have got a friend down and they can

0:21:53 > 0:21:58do investigations and those things more efficiently. That is great for

0:21:58 > 0:22:01people in public services because they are spending more time on the

0:22:01 > 0:22:06front line and they can deliver that service more efficiently. We are

0:22:06 > 0:22:09carefully looking at every single public service to make sure they

0:22:09 > 0:22:12have the resources they need which is why we are putting the extra

0:22:12 > 0:22:20money into the NHS because we recognise there are very real.Very

0:22:20 > 0:22:23quickly on growth and productivity, do you think we should get used to

0:22:23 > 0:22:29these figures are 1.5%? Is that now the new normal? Would you work on

0:22:29 > 0:22:33that assumption?I do not think we should accept that at all. I think

0:22:33 > 0:22:37we have huge potential in this country, I think we can do better

0:22:37 > 0:22:41and I think we can match our international competitors when it

0:22:41 > 0:22:46comes to areas like maths and computer science. It will take time.

0:22:46 > 0:22:50Of course when we are changing things like the school curriculum or

0:22:50 > 0:22:53the number of students doing computer science it takes a while

0:22:53 > 0:22:57for those people to come through the system. We have got tremendous

0:22:57 > 0:23:03things going on in Britain. We have got a record number of start-up

0:23:03 > 0:23:06companies, $22 billion tech companies, and I do that we have a

0:23:06 > 0:23:11bright future. It will not be instant magic but we should not

0:23:11 > 0:23:15accept mediocrity, we have got to get better.Wait there until I talk

0:23:15 > 0:23:21to Peter Dowd. It all comes back to growth, doesn't it? In the Labour

0:23:21 > 0:23:26manifesto you were spending £48 billion extra but none of it was

0:23:26 > 0:23:31directed towards productivity. It only got two mentions in the

0:23:31 > 0:23:36manifesto.That is not correct. Half of that money was in relation to

0:23:36 > 0:23:39education from early years through to primary schools, secondary

0:23:39 > 0:23:45schools, further education, universities and lifelong learning.

0:23:45 > 0:23:50That is an investment and that would feed into productivity.The spending

0:23:50 > 0:23:55on education was mostly about giving money to students, restoring the

0:23:55 > 0:24:02education maintenance allowance, abolishing fees. That will not raise

0:24:02 > 0:24:06productivity unless you get more students better taught.That was

0:24:06 > 0:24:10half that budget and a significant portion was in relation to further

0:24:10 > 0:24:16education which is where we should be putting the money.There was some

0:24:16 > 0:24:21funding of 16-19 -year-old, but we are talking less than 2 billion.And

0:24:21 > 0:24:26on top of that we had our infrastructure spending of 250

0:24:26 > 0:24:30billion, so there were significant amounts in relation to raising

0:24:30 > 0:24:35productivity and putting investment in the system. That was there for

0:24:35 > 0:24:39everyone to see. 48.6 billion. Productivity relies on

0:24:39 > 0:24:45infrastructure. Can I ask you about new technology? Philip Hammond today

0:24:45 > 0:24:50made a lot about driverless cars and the industrial revolution and I was

0:24:50 > 0:24:54wondering if there was a philosophical difference. He wants

0:24:54 > 0:24:58Britain to be good at driverless cars and he wants them to take off

0:24:58 > 0:25:03in this country. That could destroy hundreds of thousands of jobs of

0:25:03 > 0:25:09drivers. Do you welcome that or not? Of course I welcome new technology.

0:25:09 > 0:25:12The whole of the Industrial Revolution is about new technology.

0:25:12 > 0:25:18We are talking about the fourth industrial revolution. You cannot

0:25:18 > 0:25:21stop the advance of technology. What that does not mean its people are

0:25:21 > 0:25:27less well off and there are less jobs.What is the policy on

0:25:27 > 0:25:32driverless cars? You agree with him promoting them. What do you do to

0:25:32 > 0:25:37all the drivers at the moment?There are suggestions that in the future

0:25:37 > 0:25:46there are jobs which we do not know will exist now. We do not know what

0:25:46 > 0:25:50those jobs are. The idea that all these people lose jobs and they will

0:25:50 > 0:25:54not be replaced with other jobs, you only have to look at Singapore and

0:25:54 > 0:25:58the growth levels and the employment levels, so they are not mutually

0:25:58 > 0:26:05exclusive.You have been very open that you want higher taxes.

0:26:05 > 0:26:09Criticism of the Labour position on taxes is why you say you want higher

0:26:09 > 0:26:13taxes you pretend to know one will feel it. They will only be paid by

0:26:13 > 0:26:17companies or a small number of very wealthy people. The Institute for

0:26:17 > 0:26:22Fiscal Studies has said you cannot raise 50 billion through companies

0:26:22 > 0:26:26because they were either pay their workers less or charge their

0:26:26 > 0:26:30customers more or pay out less to pensioners who are shareholders and

0:26:30 > 0:26:35rely on the income. Is it time to admit that those costings will hit

0:26:35 > 0:26:40ordinary people as well as just companies?I do not think it is time

0:26:40 > 0:26:47to admit that because I do not believe that. We set out absolutely

0:26:47 > 0:26:50transparently hour 46.8 billion and where we would raise that money

0:26:50 > 0:26:55from. We believe it would affect only 5% in terms of income tax

0:26:55 > 0:27:00payers and the rest of the formula will come from corporations. Let's

0:27:00 > 0:27:06take an example. In relation to corporation tax it was a 26% and the

0:27:06 > 0:27:11government proposed to bring it down to 17% and we would take it to 26%

0:27:11 > 0:27:16and it was still be the lowest in the G7.Somebody has to Bear this,

0:27:16 > 0:27:21either the shareholders, the workers or the customers. That is the point.

0:27:21 > 0:27:25There is no such thing as a company independent of people who actually

0:27:25 > 0:27:32run it.That is the point, you raise productivity, you put investment in

0:27:32 > 0:27:35the economy, people get higher wages, there is more profit and that

0:27:35 > 0:27:40is where the growth comes from in relation to the tax we get.It is

0:27:40 > 0:27:43all back to growth and both of you would like that very much.

0:27:43 > 0:27:44would like that very much.

0:27:44 > 0:27:47Now, it is a grand tradition on budget days to ask

0:27:47 > 0:27:48what the public reaction is.

0:27:48 > 0:27:51We've had a government in a mess for the last few weeks and public

0:27:51 > 0:27:53services struggling.

0:27:53 > 0:27:56So has the Chancellor done anything to get the show back on the road?

0:27:56 > 0:27:59Emily has been in Bury today with a focus group selected for us

0:27:59 > 0:28:00by a market research company.

0:28:00 > 0:28:03The panel was drawn from the local area and designed to be

0:28:03 > 0:28:05politically mixed - some voted Conservative last time,

0:28:05 > 0:28:07some for Labour and some didn't vote at all.

0:28:07 > 0:28:09These groups can never offer a scientific study

0:28:09 > 0:28:12of public sentiment, but they did offer a rich guide

0:28:12 > 0:28:16as to how things are playing.

0:28:16 > 0:28:20Lynette, I'm going to come to you, you picked up a few bits and bobs.

0:28:20 > 0:28:22What were the things that jumped out at you?

0:28:22 > 0:28:24Interesting probably was more money for the NHS,

0:28:24 > 0:28:26I think that's something we really need at the moment.

0:28:26 > 0:28:28Also, the increase in the minimum wage.

0:28:28 > 0:28:30It's only a small increase, but it's helping people

0:28:30 > 0:28:34in this economic climate.

0:28:34 > 0:28:37And also, I think, raising the tax thresholds, I think the basic tax

0:28:37 > 0:28:41threshold has gone up a little bit and also the 40%, it's kind of gone

0:28:41 > 0:28:42up ever so slightly.

0:28:42 > 0:28:46So I think that's helped.

0:28:46 > 0:28:48You work part-time so that is helpful for you?

0:28:48 > 0:28:51Yes, I think especially with the basic tax, I think

0:28:51 > 0:28:53that definitely helps, along with the minimum wage.

0:28:53 > 0:28:55It just helps push things up a little bit.

0:28:55 > 0:28:57Was anyone disappointed by what they heard today?

0:28:57 > 0:28:59Was there something you were holding out for that you didn't hear?

0:28:59 > 0:29:02Yes.

0:29:02 > 0:29:06I overall was impressed by the budget speech,

0:29:06 > 0:29:10but I did want to hear something about gambling, and trying to solve

0:29:10 > 0:29:13this problem of addictive gambling, I thought it was a bad opportunity

0:29:13 > 0:29:16missed by the Chancellor today.

0:29:16 > 0:29:20Can I ask the younger ones whether they responded

0:29:20 > 0:29:23to the first-time buyers announcement at all?

0:29:23 > 0:29:27Is that going to make a difference do your life if you don't have

0:29:27 > 0:29:29to pay stamp duty up to £300,000 on a house you're buying?

0:29:29 > 0:29:35Yes, I think it will help quite a lot.

0:29:35 > 0:29:41Obviously as a first time buyer 300,000 is obviously quite a lot

0:29:41 > 0:29:44of money but I'm looking to buy a house into the next year and it

0:29:44 > 0:29:45will help quite a lot.

0:29:45 > 0:29:49I found it a lot easier because it is hard now these days

0:29:49 > 0:29:54to save up enough deposit to put towards your first time house,

0:29:54 > 0:29:58but the problem is, they're saying they are going to build more houses

0:29:58 > 0:30:00for us, but are they affordable for people like us?

0:30:00 > 0:30:03Are they just for the more people that earn more money?

0:30:03 > 0:30:06It's whether they get built as well.

0:30:06 > 0:30:10Because they have promised to build more houses before in previous

0:30:10 > 0:30:11budgets and never built them.

0:30:11 > 0:30:15I think it was 200,000 a a few years ago and they never built them.

0:30:15 > 0:30:17So who doesn't believe the house building promise?

0:30:17 > 0:30:18I don't believe it.

0:30:18 > 0:30:19It is unrealistic for what they say.

0:30:19 > 0:30:23I think they should try to free up local authorities to build,

0:30:23 > 0:30:26I think that would make a big impression because they would build

0:30:26 > 0:30:29social housing and I don't see any route to social housing being built,

0:30:29 > 0:30:31that has been mentioned in the budget today.

0:30:31 > 0:30:33Social housing that wouldn't be privately purchased then?

0:30:33 > 0:30:34Correct.

0:30:34 > 0:30:35Right.

0:30:35 > 0:30:39But they need to reduce the amount of bureaucracy as well.

0:30:39 > 0:30:41The old council house, they were all built by the local

0:30:41 > 0:30:44authorities, and that's just not happened for many years now,

0:30:44 > 0:30:49and there's an opportunity today to do that.

0:30:49 > 0:30:52Let me ask how many of you are still living with parents, or parents how

0:30:52 > 0:30:55many of you still have children living with you, just

0:30:55 > 0:30:56put your hand up if that...

0:30:56 > 0:30:59I have two daughters and a son, they're all at...

0:30:59 > 0:31:02One's just finished her degree, one is now a teacher,

0:31:02 > 0:31:06and the other one is living at home, he's at college.

0:31:06 > 0:31:11Do you think this will help any of your kids by buy their own homes?

0:31:11 > 0:31:14I hope so, I really do hope so, for them to be able to be able

0:31:14 > 0:31:17to buy their own home would be something that we

0:31:17 > 0:31:18would be looking for.

0:31:18 > 0:31:20Adam you said you are trying to buy next year.

0:31:20 > 0:31:24I think it is not necessarily they have reduced it,

0:31:24 > 0:31:27but I think it's the deposit that's the big thing, that's

0:31:27 > 0:31:29the difficult thing in getting on the property ladder now.

0:31:29 > 0:31:33Saskia, you're still living at home.

0:31:33 > 0:31:37I'm still living at home, and like I often think that compared

0:31:37 > 0:31:41to some people, I think I'm fortunate, because I never went

0:31:41 > 0:31:44to university and stuff, and I just think, you know

0:31:44 > 0:31:45if some of my friend

0:31:45 > 0:31:48who are at uni, they finish uni and they have so much money

0:31:48 > 0:31:53they owe, they are going to be stuck at home for such a long time

0:31:53 > 0:31:56because you know deposits to put down on a house are just enormous.

0:31:56 > 0:32:00And you would be looking to buy your own now, would you?

0:32:00 > 0:32:02Would anything in the budget change your plans for the next year,

0:32:02 > 0:32:07do you think or not yet?

0:32:07 > 0:32:10I don't know all about it, but it's optimistic you know,

0:32:10 > 0:32:13to hear they are doing something about it, they are aware

0:32:13 > 0:32:15that this, it is a massive struggle for some people.

0:32:15 > 0:32:18Let me pick up on that now.

0:32:18 > 0:32:21Who could tell me the hardest thing in their life at the moment,

0:32:21 > 0:32:25that the budget did or didn't address.

0:32:25 > 0:32:32My mum is an Alzheimer's sufferer, she is currently in care,

0:32:32 > 0:32:35she is living in a place, a housing trust, but she's trying

0:32:35 > 0:32:38to be rehomed at the moment and the system is just collapsing,

0:32:38 > 0:32:39it's falling apart.

0:32:39 > 0:32:43Although there was mention of money for the NHS,

0:32:43 > 0:32:46there wasn't any specific mention of money for social care

0:32:46 > 0:32:48and particularly elderly social care, and just being in that loop,

0:32:48 > 0:32:52I know that that system is ready to collapse.

0:32:52 > 0:32:58More money for like specifically allocated for mental health.

0:32:58 > 0:33:01I think it is a really big issue at moment and just mental

0:33:01 > 0:33:03Health Services are really like stretched at the moment,

0:33:03 > 0:33:08waiting lists and I think they need to really specify which areas

0:33:08 > 0:33:10they are going to be spent in.

0:33:10 > 0:33:12Who else would agree with that?

0:33:12 > 0:33:14I agree with that but also the conditions and disabilities

0:33:14 > 0:33:17such as autism are not catered for enough.

0:33:17 > 0:33:19I work in autism, and I know the measures aren't there

0:33:19 > 0:33:21to assist particularly the more challenging people.

0:33:21 > 0:33:24So you would like to see more money in the NHS for social

0:33:24 > 0:33:27care for disability, for mental health as well.

0:33:27 > 0:33:31Let me ask you this question, would you be prepared

0:33:31 > 0:33:34to see your own taxes go up, to fund better provision

0:33:34 > 0:33:35of these services?

0:33:35 > 0:33:38Just raise your hand so we get a sense.

0:33:38 > 0:33:42That is amazing, all of you are saying you would be

0:33:42 > 0:33:45prepared to pay more taxes?

0:33:45 > 0:33:48As long as we can be confident it is being spent properly

0:33:48 > 0:33:50and it is not being misspent in different areas.

0:33:50 > 0:33:53It is like the alcohol duty being frozen is a mistake,

0:33:53 > 0:33:55that is a revenue stream we can get.

0:33:55 > 0:34:00It is a luxury, you know, people can afford it or they can't.

0:34:00 > 0:34:04And I think to freeze it, to go for the bottom end

0:34:04 > 0:34:07and to freeze the alcohol duty for me, smells of a vote winner

0:34:07 > 0:34:09because a lot of the people...

0:34:09 > 0:34:15It mentioned whiskey so specifically that sort of thing,

0:34:15 > 0:34:18but also I think, it maybe send out the wrong message where

0:34:18 > 0:34:20you are trying to get people to drink responsibly.

0:34:20 > 0:34:21We have a problem.

0:34:21 > 0:34:23You know, we are not really addressing it.

0:34:23 > 0:34:26You say this because you mentioned to me you're a drinker and a driver

0:34:26 > 0:34:30a drinker and a driver - not at the same time but you do both

0:34:30 > 0:34:32yet you disagree the freeze on duty.

0:34:32 > 0:34:34Yes, I mean obviously the fuel is slightly different

0:34:34 > 0:34:36because of the industry and everything, and I understand

0:34:36 > 0:34:39that, but I do definitely think that tax and duty on alcohol should

0:34:39 > 0:34:40have been increased.

0:34:40 > 0:34:42So I find that extraordinary.

0:34:42 > 0:34:45Did the Chancellor then miss a trick, if you have

0:34:45 > 0:34:46all said you don't mind

0:34:46 > 0:34:48paying more taxation, you have all said that, as long

0:34:48 > 0:34:52as it's going in the right place, so he could have raised money to pay

0:34:52 > 0:34:57for the things you all want today?

0:34:57 > 0:34:59He's a politician, he has to be very careful.

0:34:59 > 0:35:03He can't do what he may be wants to do, raising taxes would perhaps

0:35:03 > 0:35:05lose him an election or something like that.

0:35:05 > 0:35:07I think most people expect alcohol to go up.

0:35:07 > 0:35:08I think it's almost a given.

0:35:08 > 0:35:11To not put it up, is almost like a sort of "Oh",

0:35:11 > 0:35:13but nobody really goes "Oh, that's brilliant, I don't

0:35:13 > 0:35:16pay two pence more", but if you raise £10 billion

0:35:16 > 0:35:18to spend on the NHS, then we would have all

0:35:18 > 0:35:21gone,"OK, fair enough".

0:35:21 > 0:35:24People are much more socially aware as well, aren't they,

0:35:24 > 0:35:28so people have a better understanding of how that money

0:35:28 > 0:35:31could be better spent on, you know, public servants, our public sector,

0:35:31 > 0:35:32right across the board.

0:35:32 > 0:35:35Let me just ask you a really unfair question.

0:35:35 > 0:35:38At the end of today, who would feel inclined to vote

0:35:38 > 0:35:41for Conservative at the next election if it were called next week

0:35:41 > 0:35:44on the basis of what you have heard in the budget?

0:35:44 > 0:35:45Well I would.

0:35:45 > 0:35:47Just put your hand up.

0:35:47 > 0:35:53OK, who would say they have been put off by what they've heard today?

0:35:53 > 0:35:55And we have four undecided.

0:35:55 > 0:35:56Thank you all very much.

0:35:56 > 0:36:02Thank you for coming in.

0:36:02 > 0:36:05Let us finish today with some budget reflections with a panel of big

0:36:05 > 0:36:12brains and years of experience.

0:36:12 > 0:36:15Rupert Harrison was chief of Staff to George Osborne at the Treasury.

0:36:15 > 0:36:16He now works for Blackrock.

0:36:16 > 0:36:18Fraser Nelson is editor of the Spectator, and Faiza Shaheen

0:36:18 > 0:36:21is the Director at the Centre for Labour and Social studies.

0:36:21 > 0:36:24We'll get to them in a moment but first, Nick Watt is here.

0:36:24 > 0:36:26Nick, what are you hearing tonight?

0:36:26 > 0:36:29How has this gone down on the Tory benches?

0:36:29 > 0:36:34I was talking to one member of cabinet, someone who is a fan

0:36:34 > 0:36:34I was talking to one member of cabinet, someone who is a fan of

0:36:34 > 0:36:38Philip Hammond he said at last we have a political Philip Hammond,

0:36:38 > 0:36:43there was the disaster of his budget earlier this year when his pool

0:36:43 > 0:36:48political antenna got into trouble and this member of cabinet said he

0:36:48 > 0:36:53could see the job he was needing to do, which was answer that roar to

0:36:53 > 0:36:58persuaded to people who voted Labour and the Brexiteers reasonably happy.

0:36:58 > 0:37:03Let us look at the headlines tomorrow. Financial Times grim

0:37:03 > 0:37:08outlook overshadows housing drive. The Guardian he struggles to meet

0:37:08 > 0:37:14the gloom. Two with a gloomy air about them. The times goes Hammond

0:37:14 > 0:37:24eases off austerity. And the Mail is the most interesting. The Mail

0:37:24 > 0:37:30dubbed him #e6789 eyore.I think that is significant. The is very

0:37:30 > 0:37:34rescind, we are taking it away and you say as you point out they are

0:37:34 > 0:37:39saying we like what he does, but crucially, they like his Brexit

0:37:39 > 0:37:44optimism, so as long as he appears to be saying the right things, they

0:37:44 > 0:37:50will be happy.Thank you. Panel, first of all is this the end of

0:37:50 > 0:37:54austerity? Some are writing this up as the end of austerity.It is

0:37:54 > 0:37:59pretty much. Have accuse loot a forecast, he has given up he will

0:37:59 > 0:38:03balance the book, it is stretching off into the future, we have had

0:38:03 > 0:38:06lots of spending without any indication about where the money

0:38:06 > 0:38:10will come from. They have thought, Jeremy Corbyn isn't going to tease

0:38:10 > 0:38:15up for running up a massive debt so we are in a political hole so let us

0:38:15 > 0:38:20dig out with lots of borrowed money. Have they given up on austerity?I

0:38:20 > 0:38:24think there has to be a recognition it hasn't worked when you have a

0:38:24 > 0:38:29missed so many of your target, and when economic growth is downgraded

0:38:29 > 0:38:32again, you have got to start thinking this isn't the right

0:38:32 > 0:38:36approach, saying that, the real end of austerity would be to is that

0:38:36 > 0:38:43right undoing the cuts.We have more to come.Exactly. They haven't, they

0:38:43 > 0:38:48are still doing the same narrative about austerity is the right thing

0:38:48 > 0:38:53rather than this opportunity to invest.Do you think this is the

0:38:53 > 0:38:57key, that Jeremy Corbyn's relative success against expectation in the

0:38:57 > 0:39:00general election has spooked them and they have said we need to throw

0:39:00 > 0:39:06bait of money at stuff, is that your take?Yes, but they are just

0:39:06 > 0:39:11gesture, they created it themselves. Homelessness has doubled since they

0:39:11 > 0:39:15have been leading Government, and sow they throw money at it. They are

0:39:15 > 0:39:19undoing the damage they have done. I am not going to clap about it.You

0:39:19 > 0:39:22were there running it when austerity was the name of the game. Do you

0:39:22 > 0:39:27feel like this is a significant change in direction?It spent quite

0:39:27 > 0:39:31a lot of money, so he is spending tens the of billions more, normally

0:39:31 > 0:39:36that would be seen as a pretty expensive budget for the public

0:39:36 > 0:39:39finance, the big picture it is not the end of austerity, government

0:39:39 > 0:39:44budgets are tight for some years to come. It there are difficult

0:39:44 > 0:39:47decisions like a benefit freeze that is stretching years ahead. I think

0:39:47 > 0:39:51they have paused their level of ambition, I think that is partly for

0:39:51 > 0:39:56the politics, and partly on the economics that right now with Brexit

0:39:56 > 0:39:59uncertainty isn't the time to be doubling down.Do you feel like it's

0:39:59 > 0:40:03a vision of what it is doing or where it wants to go? He said this

0:40:03 > 0:40:06is not a budget about Brexit, it is about more than Brexit. Did you get

0:40:06 > 0:40:12the sense they have a kind of a pictureI thought he did a better

0:40:12 > 0:40:17job of telling the stories focussing on house building and the

0:40:17 > 0:40:23progressive nature of the reforms, the top of the 1%, the richest 1%

0:40:23 > 0:40:28paying 27% of income tax, these are real achievements from conSepp

0:40:28 > 0:40:30Blatter accepts sieve remortgages and the forries have been bad about

0:40:30 > 0:40:35boasting about it, but now they are. So for once, he is beginning to

0:40:35 > 0:40:39point out that this is not just about cutting, this is about

0:40:39 > 0:40:43building a fairer and stronger country.It is difficult to claim we

0:40:43 > 0:40:48are fairer when we have so many people going to food bank ex when

0:40:48 > 0:40:52those on the rich list have seen their wealth double.Inequality has

0:40:52 > 0:40:58been coming down. The States say we are more equal.Which measure are

0:40:58 > 0:41:05you Ewing.That is bad at the extremes, you can ask the IFS that:

0:41:05 > 0:41:09The overall measure of inequality has come down since 2010 and the

0:41:09 > 0:41:13people whose incomes have fallen the most are those at the top.I am more

0:41:13 > 0:41:16interested, we have been saying the narrative has been this is a

0:41:16 > 0:41:19leaderless Government, it doesn't know what it is doing, where it is

0:41:19 > 0:41:25going. It is passing time. Has this game change that?For the economy,

0:41:25 > 0:41:29and for what our country is going to look like. Nothing else matters

0:41:29 > 0:41:34but...We don't know what anything, this is a sort of Fantasy League.A

0:41:34 > 0:41:37statement for the Government to try to say something and the biggest

0:41:37 > 0:41:41thing it hasn't been a disaster, which is more than you can say about

0:41:41 > 0:41:44the party conference, the election, about the last Budget. You need to

0:41:44 > 0:41:48get through this and it not to implode. So far the night is young

0:41:48 > 0:41:54it hasn't.What a low bar, what a low bar we have set. Meanwhile,

0:41:54 > 0:42:00meanwhile we have more nurses, 30% more nurses leaving than join, we

0:42:00 > 0:42:05have 88% of education of schools facing real term cuts. I mean,

0:42:05 > 0:42:09listen, when you look at the stat, whether it is child poverty and

0:42:09 > 0:42:13relative child poverty is going up. When you look at homelessness, this

0:42:13 > 0:42:19is not a sign of a healthy economy. How far do you think is the, if not

0:42:19 > 0:42:23the Jeremy Corbyn kind of nod to him, at least a nod to Ed Miliband.

0:42:23 > 0:42:27There is a lot of that about this Government at the moment.I think it

0:42:27 > 0:42:31is a nod to Jeremy Corbyn more than Ed Miliband. He lost an election and

0:42:31 > 0:42:36Jeremy Corbyn also lost but he gained a lot of seat, I think some

0:42:36 > 0:42:40of the spending money on the Health Service any Conservative Government

0:42:40 > 0:42:46would do, what Chris Cook was saying about the line between NHS England

0:42:46 > 0:42:50and the Government is something to watch. Your point about vision, I

0:42:50 > 0:42:54thought that Philip Hammond managed 20 do today, which was just the

0:42:54 > 0:42:58beginning, was try and give us a picture of in the long-term there

0:42:58 > 0:43:03are some things that might be more important than Brexit, I think think

0:43:03 > 0:43:09it is important but the new technology, biotechnology,

0:43:09 > 0:43:11driverless car, longer life span, they will be more important than

0:43:11 > 0:43:16Brexit. He did at least have a long section of the speech trying to talk

0:43:16 > 0:43:19about science and technology in an interesting way. That was a small

0:43:19 > 0:43:25achievement.It is interesting from the same sort of end of the

0:43:25 > 0:43:28political spectrum, Rupert is thinking Jeremy Corbyn has made a

0:43:28 > 0:43:32lot of running here.Yes, Corbyn terrifies the Conservatives, sixth

0:43:32 > 0:43:36months ago they were laughing at him. It has been a big change.Does

0:43:36 > 0:43:41this work then? Ken Clark said it is not Corbyn Lyth but do you think

0:43:41 > 0:43:48what he has done shoots the Corbyn fox, rail cards for 26-30-year-olds.

0:43:48 > 0:43:53They are bribes and ghijs and will be seen as such. We are at the

0:43:53 > 0:43:56beginning of recovery. It is beginning to show a government which

0:43:56 > 0:43:59knows where it is going and made a few reasonable steps today in

0:43:59 > 0:44:03getting there.This was a nothing budget. There was nothing really in

0:44:03 > 0:44:07it. It was gimmicks and gestures and Hammond said this is about the

0:44:07 > 0:44:11future and being fit for the future, and then he had nothing, no

0:44:11 > 0:44:15substance to really start backing that up.A lot of this is designed

0:44:15 > 0:44:21to get young people up. The figures are shocking.What a stamp duty

0:44:21 > 0:44:27holiday when young people are coming out of university with £50,000 of

0:44:27 > 0:44:33debt.Do you think it will work?We likely have four years or more until

0:44:33 > 0:44:37the next election, this is about steadying the ship, about getting a

0:44:37 > 0:44:39government that won't collapse month-to-month, that can deliver

0:44:39 > 0:44:43Brexit, and you know, by the time we have the next election we will have

0:44:43 > 0:44:46a new leader of the Conservative Party and the world will look

0:44:46 > 0:44:50different.Thank you all very much. Well, tomorrow we will probably

0:44:50 > 0:44:53discover if there was anything we hadn't talked about today, but that

0:44:53 > 0:45:03is all we have time for for now. I will be here tomorrow. Good night.