0:00:08 > 0:00:11Ever get the sense you're being dragged around by someone
0:00:11 > 0:00:16who shouldn't be able to do it?
0:00:16 > 0:00:24Tonight:
0:00:24 > 0:00:26Has Theresa May had her tail caught by the DUP -
0:00:26 > 0:00:29what did just happened to that Brexit deal over the Irish border.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Is it gone or just on pause?
0:00:31 > 0:00:33We were satisfied earlier today to report substantial progress along
0:00:33 > 0:00:36lines that would have enabled us to advise President Juncker
0:00:36 > 0:00:38and the Barnier negotiating team to report sufficient progress
0:00:38 > 0:00:40on these matters to the heads of state.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43We're not quite there yet, no.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46But I think with goodwill, we can get there.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50Also tonight:
0:00:50 > 0:00:51The besieged Syrian rebel enclave
0:00:51 > 0:00:57of eastern Ghouta is struck by one of the worst bombardments
0:00:57 > 0:01:00in nearly five years.
0:01:00 > 0:01:05We talk to rescue workers and medics on the ground.
0:01:05 > 0:01:05And...
0:01:05 > 0:01:07it might have been Damian Green.
0:01:07 > 0:01:09Or it might have been someone else.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13But why aren't we more shocked at the idea of thousands
0:01:13 > 0:01:16of pornographic images being discovered on a work computer?
0:01:16 > 0:01:18Has porn become more socially acceptable?
0:01:18 > 0:01:20And what effect is that having?
0:01:20 > 0:01:29We'll discuss.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Good evening.
0:01:31 > 0:01:35Jean-Claude Juncker wore his anglophile Burberry tie today,
0:01:35 > 0:01:38a hint that the more eagle-eyed amongst us took to be
0:01:38 > 0:01:40a sure sign that a deal with Britain was imminent.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42In the end, it was not to be.
0:01:42 > 0:01:46What looked, sounded and felt like a potential Brexit solution
0:01:46 > 0:01:49to the Irish border was put on pause in the briefest of press
0:01:49 > 0:01:51conferences at around four o' clock this afternoon.
0:01:51 > 0:01:52The sticking point?
0:01:52 > 0:01:55What the DUP - who prop up Theresa May's Conservatives -
0:01:55 > 0:02:02suggested was "sloppy language" on the part of the Irish government.
0:02:02 > 0:02:06From what we understand, Ireland had been expecting to sign
0:02:06 > 0:02:08off a statement that promised a continued regulatory framework
0:02:08 > 0:02:10north of the border, after Britain leaves the EU.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14But following stern words from DUP leader Arlene Foster,
0:02:14 > 0:02:16the PM appeared to back track, perhaps fearing she had
0:02:16 > 0:02:18misjudged the moment.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20The deal is far from dead.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23But it needs more time and perhaps - who knows -
0:02:23 > 0:02:26new concessions to the DUP for their support.
0:02:26 > 0:02:33Let's go to Nick Watt for his take on the day.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36The Prime Minister had gone into these talks with Downing Street
0:02:36 > 0:02:41describing them as a staging post on the way to the European Council next
0:02:41 > 0:02:45week. But Theresa May had hoped to get a deal today and had pencilled
0:02:45 > 0:02:49in a statement to Parliament tomorrow. But it didn't happen
0:02:49 > 0:02:53because the DUP took fright at reports from Dublin in the Brexit
0:02:53 > 0:02:59deal, there would be a decoration that there would be no regulatory
0:02:59 > 0:03:03divergence between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. So what
0:03:03 > 0:03:07is actually in that deal? I understand from the UK said that the
0:03:07 > 0:03:11deal on Northern Ireland covers three scenarios from good to bad.
0:03:11 > 0:03:15The good scenario - there is an overall free trade agreement between
0:03:15 > 0:03:19the UK and the EU at the end of this process, and you get a frictionless
0:03:19 > 0:03:23board automatically from that deal. Scenario number two is that if that
0:03:23 > 0:03:28doesn't happen, there would be a bespoke arrangement for Northern
0:03:28 > 0:03:34Ireland. In the worst-case scenario which the UK Government doesn't will
0:03:34 > 0:03:39happen, you would then have, if you fail to do that, a decoration that
0:03:39 > 0:03:45there would be full alignment of those elements that are currently
0:03:45 > 0:03:50there, cross-border cooperation from the Good Friday Agreement. So that
0:03:50 > 0:03:54is transport, the single electricity market and agriculture, and then the
0:03:54 > 0:03:59document says, how do you achieve that? It has two ideas. One is to
0:03:59 > 0:04:02have harmonisation of regulation, and the other is to have regulatory
0:04:02 > 0:04:06equivalents. The UK would want it to be regulatory equivalents because
0:04:06 > 0:04:12the UK would decide, these are the regulations, but that you would want
0:04:12 > 0:04:15harmonisation because we were just agree with them. So I have been
0:04:15 > 0:04:21looking at how this row broke out today.
0:04:21 > 0:04:25Love wasn't quite in the air, but a deal appeared to be in sight.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29Theresa May pitched up in Brussels for lunch and over the road, Donald
0:04:29 > 0:04:34Tusk dared to joke about how much he likes Mondays. All seemed fine,
0:04:34 > 0:04:40until the lunch run over schedule and then broke up without agreement
0:04:40 > 0:04:43when Theresa May and Jean-Claude Juncker finally spoke, it was all
0:04:43 > 0:04:48over rather quickly.Ladies and gentlemen, it was not possible to
0:04:48 > 0:04:57reach a complete agreement today.He spoke for less than two minutes.
0:04:57 > 0:05:02Thank you very much, Jean-Claude. On a couple of issues, some differences
0:05:02 > 0:05:04do remain which require further negotiation.She spoke for just 40
0:05:04 > 0:05:13seconds. Hopes of a breakthrough today fell apart over Northern
0:05:13 > 0:05:16Ireland. The Irish Prime Minister, who had been planning to hail a deal
0:05:16 > 0:05:22just after lunch, kept his head down for three hours, and then this.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26Following the government meeting this morning, the Irish negotiating
0:05:26 > 0:05:29team receives confirmation from the British government and the Barnier
0:05:29 > 0:05:34task force that the United Kingdom had agreed a text on the border that
0:05:34 > 0:05:39met our concerns. This text would form part of the border EU - UK
0:05:39 > 0:05:44agreement on phase one and would allow us all to move on to face two.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46I was then contacted by the president of the European
0:05:46 > 0:05:51Commission, President Juncker and the president of the European
0:05:51 > 0:05:54Council, president Tusk. I confirmed to them both Ireland's agreement to
0:05:54 > 0:05:59that text. I am surprised and disappointed that the British
0:05:59 > 0:06:03government now appears not to be in a position to conclude what was
0:06:03 > 0:06:07agreed earlier today.The deal ran into trouble after reports that one
0:06:07 > 0:06:11draft stated that there would be no divergence in EU rules across the
0:06:11 > 0:06:18Irish border would support the Good Friday Agreement. This was
0:06:18 > 0:06:22clarified, but the DUP were furious at what they saw as an attempt to
0:06:22 > 0:06:28prise Northern Ireland away from the rest of the UK.We have been very
0:06:28 > 0:06:33clear. Northern Ireland must leave the European Union on the same terms
0:06:33 > 0:06:39as the rest of the UK and we will not accept any form of regulatory
0:06:39 > 0:06:42divergence which separates Northern Ireland economically or politically
0:06:42 > 0:06:49from the rest of the UK. The economic and constitutional
0:06:49 > 0:06:56integrity of the United Kingdom must not be compromised.There is
0:06:56 > 0:06:59frustration in Downing Street, where there is a feeling that Brussels and
0:06:59 > 0:07:03Dublin overhyped the proposed deal. This has, if only temporarily,
0:07:03 > 0:07:07torpedoed Theresa May's efforts to inch forward the Brexit negotiations
0:07:07 > 0:07:12with the support of the DUP. So we can expect the Prime Minister to
0:07:12 > 0:07:17embark on a charm offensive to reassure the DUP that her plans are
0:07:17 > 0:07:22far more modest. At their heart, this would involve embedding in the
0:07:22 > 0:07:28final Brexit deal those elements of cross-border cooperation emanating
0:07:28 > 0:07:34from the Good Friday Agreement. At the moment, unionists in Northern
0:07:34 > 0:07:41Ireland are nervous.I think it has made things much more difficult,
0:07:41 > 0:07:45what happened today. If there had been an agreed form of wording with
0:07:45 > 0:07:51the DUP beforehand, it might have been possible to present it as a
0:07:51 > 0:07:57joint DUP - Conservative proposal. I think it will be difficult now.In
0:07:57 > 0:08:03London and Dublin, there is hope that a deal will soon be reached.I
0:08:03 > 0:08:06think today has been successful. We understand that later this week,
0:08:06 > 0:08:11there is every prospect of a deal, so satisfying the European Union
0:08:11 > 0:08:14that in its words, sufficient progress has been made, which will
0:08:14 > 0:08:19set us up for a favourable conclusion to the summit on the 15th
0:08:19 > 0:08:24of December. That is what we are working towards. The mood here at
0:08:24 > 0:08:29Westminster is far more upbeat than I have known it for some time. So I
0:08:29 > 0:08:33think with compromise on both sides, because that is the nature of any
0:08:33 > 0:08:38negotiation, we are set fair for some good news before Christmas.We
0:08:38 > 0:08:41have negotiated in good faith with the entire British negotiating team,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45David Davis and Michel Barnier will meet again this week. Theresa May
0:08:45 > 0:08:48and Jean-Claude Juncker had a good meeting today and we are hopeful
0:08:48 > 0:08:52that the Prime Minister will be able to get this agreement over the line
0:08:52 > 0:08:56with the DUP and other factors in time for the Council meeting in
0:08:56 > 0:09:00December. We wish her luck and we hope Wigan get this resolved as soon
0:09:00 > 0:09:04as possible. We desperately want to move to face two of the negotiating
0:09:04 > 0:09:10process.Today, the hands of history didn't quite meet. All parties in
0:09:10 > 0:09:14the Brexit talks will be hoping we won't have to wait too long for that
0:09:14 > 0:09:21handshake. We heard Andy Muir and saying he thought it would happen
0:09:21 > 0:09:26next week before the summit.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28The UK Government has always believed unofficially that this
0:09:28 > 0:09:31Friday is the deadline to get an agreement, because after that it is
0:09:31 > 0:09:36difficult to make substantial changes to a European Council draft
0:09:36 > 0:09:40summit. So the Prime Minister will be talking to the DUP leader and
0:09:40 > 0:09:43possibly going to Brussels to meet Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk
0:09:43 > 0:09:46again this week. One member of the Cabinet said, we are fundamentally
0:09:46 > 0:09:50in agreement with Dublin on this. But this person said, there is a bit
0:09:50 > 0:09:57of a dance. We are a minority government, and so are they. But the
0:09:57 > 0:10:00DUP are really upset. I spoke to one senior DUP figure at the heart of
0:10:00 > 0:10:04this, and this person said to me, we in Northern Ireland cannot have a
0:10:04 > 0:10:10border with GB. It is our biggest market. We are not stupid. I said to
0:10:10 > 0:10:14this person, is Theresa May listening to you? And this person
0:10:14 > 0:10:20said, oh, yes, she has no choice. So, when and how did it all
0:10:20 > 0:10:22unravelled?
0:10:22 > 0:10:24Well, earlier I asked Ireland's Agriculture Minister Michael Creed
0:10:24 > 0:10:25what he made of the day's events.
0:10:25 > 0:10:31Well, I suppose in essence we thought we had a deal
0:10:31 > 0:10:38in the early afternoon and it turns out that we didn't and that's
0:10:38 > 0:10:46obviously somewhat disappointing but look, I suppose,
0:10:46 > 0:10:48given the commitment of both sides to further engagement and given
0:10:48 > 0:10:52the fact that we have a deadline of the December Council on the 14th
0:10:52 > 0:10:54and 15th of December, and given the fact that I think
0:10:54 > 0:10:56everybody, Irish government included, wants us to be
0:10:56 > 0:11:00in a position to move to phase two, I certainly think that with goodwill
0:11:00 > 0:11:01on all sides, that can be achieved.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04I don't want to underestimate the significance of the issues that
0:11:04 > 0:11:05have yet to be agreed.
0:11:05 > 0:11:11What do you think actually went wrong today?
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Well, I think in essence, that is probably a question that
0:11:14 > 0:11:15would be best directed to Prime Minister May.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18Because we felt, as I indicated, that we had the broad outline
0:11:18 > 0:11:21of an agreement earlier and that sufficient progress could be
0:11:21 > 0:11:23reported by the European task force to the heads of state.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26It's obvious that the DUP have issues with regard
0:11:26 > 0:11:35to island of Ireland issues.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43We have particular issues we have put to the forefront from day one
0:11:43 > 0:11:46and that's been about ensuring that the UK leaving
0:11:46 > 0:11:48the European Union doesn't give rise to a hard border
0:11:48 > 0:11:49with the island of Ireland.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53Just to understand that, was your understanding this morning
0:11:53 > 0:11:57that the DUP had been signed up to it?
0:11:57 > 0:11:59Because obviously, they were always going to have misgivings about this.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04Was your understanding that they were signed up and then
0:12:04 > 0:12:07they changed their minds or that they've never been signed up
0:12:07 > 0:12:09and she was going to go ahead with it anyway?
0:12:09 > 0:12:18Look, the negotiations are conducted primarily by the European task force
0:12:18 > 0:12:21with Michel Barnier at the helm and the UK Government.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23Over the weekend, yes, the Irish government was heavily
0:12:23 > 0:12:28involved in the detail over the issues of the island of Ireland
0:12:28 > 0:12:30and in particular our insistence that in the context
0:12:30 > 0:12:32of phase one of these
0:12:32 > 0:12:35negotiations, that we get in writing a commitment that there would not be
0:12:35 > 0:12:36a hard border re-emerging.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39The DUP are critical to power-sharing in Northern Ireland.
0:12:39 > 0:12:45Wasn't it a mistake to overlook how essential to these talks they were?
0:12:45 > 0:12:50Well, I mean, the DUP are one voice in Northern Ireland
0:12:50 > 0:12:51which regrettably doesn't have a power-sharing executive
0:12:51 > 0:12:54in place at the moment.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57They are a critical voice in the context of the parliamentary
0:12:57 > 0:12:59arithmetic in Westminster.
0:12:59 > 0:13:01We're not a party to that.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03We negotiate in the European Union with the British government
0:13:03 > 0:13:08and with Prime Minister May.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11So it's not incumbent on the Irish government to engage directly,
0:13:11 > 0:13:19but we are of course open and willing to engage with the DUP.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21In fact, I personally believe that our concerns, when they boil
0:13:21 > 0:13:24down to it, are concerns that are broadly shared by
0:13:24 > 0:13:26the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland.
0:13:26 > 0:13:27Newsnight understands this evening that three possible scenarios
0:13:27 > 0:13:36were on the table for this deal which may still go ahead.
0:13:36 > 0:13:46Either an all-UK deal, free trade with the EU,
0:13:46 > 0:13:48which would look and sound, I guess, like a soft
0:13:48 > 0:13:51Brexit or a customs union.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54Or a bespoke deal for Northern Ireland or some deal that
0:13:54 > 0:13:56would just look at areas of cross-border co-operation.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58Is that what you understand this deal was about,
0:13:58 > 0:14:02the cross-border cooperation?
0:14:02 > 0:14:06Well, as I understand, the deal was about ensuring
0:14:06 > 0:14:11regulatory alignment, that we did not have
0:14:11 > 0:14:13the necessity for a border between Newry and Dundalk,
0:14:13 > 0:14:20between Derry and Donegal.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22And, you know, whatever means we employ to achieve that,
0:14:22 > 0:14:28regulatory alignment, remaining in the customs union
0:14:28 > 0:14:29or the single market, whatever political invention
0:14:29 > 0:14:32is required to come up with a solution that
0:14:32 > 0:14:40delivers on that, you know, that's something we are
0:14:40 > 0:14:41excessively prescriptive about.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44But we do know what it is we want.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Let me try and pin you down on that, because that seems
0:14:47 > 0:14:50to be where the language is getting confused.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52The Northern Ireland agreement, as things stand, only mentions,
0:14:52 > 0:14:54doesn't it, agriculture, energy and transport.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58Are you wanting to see every regulation across every sector
0:14:58 > 0:15:03covered by the same EU deal, the north and south?
0:15:03 > 0:15:07Is that where you're heading?
0:15:07 > 0:15:15Is it convergence rather than just alignment of what you have?
0:15:15 > 0:15:17Well, I think the terminology that was being used,
0:15:17 > 0:15:18was regulatory alignment.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21It's important to bear in mind that this isn't in many respects
0:15:21 > 0:15:25breaking new ground.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28We have alignment on an all Ireland basis at the moment on issues
0:15:28 > 0:15:30that there isn't alignment between Ireland for example
0:15:30 > 0:15:33and the rest of the United Kingdom, for example in the area of animal
0:15:33 > 0:15:36health we have it, in the area of food safety we have it.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39So this isn't, you know, revolutionary in its concept.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44What I'm asking, are you looking for convergence on all of the other
0:15:44 > 0:15:47areas as well, all the other sectors, or would you be happy
0:15:47 > 0:15:48to stick with those three specifically mentioned
0:15:48 > 0:15:54in the Northern Ireland agreement?
0:15:54 > 0:15:57No, what we want is a situation where we achieve in these outcomes
0:15:57 > 0:15:59a situation where there isn't a border emerging.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01We are preoccupied by that, not for trade reasons
0:16:01 > 0:16:04but for political reasons.
0:16:04 > 0:16:09We do not want an emergence of a border again and all
0:16:09 > 0:16:12of the historical issues associated with a border.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14For good reasons.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16These lessons aren't lost on any section of the community
0:16:16 > 0:16:19in Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22And indeed in the broader United Kingdom, they are not lost.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24Because we've paid an excessively heavy price.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27We were satisfied with what we had today in the context
0:16:27 > 0:16:29of a regulatory alignment that that would deliver on that.
0:16:29 > 0:16:36Thank you very much indeed.
0:16:36 > 0:16:45We wrong we labelled Arlene Foster as the first minute, she is the DUP
0:16:45 > 0:16:46leader.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48Our Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban is here.
0:16:48 > 0:16:53There is a theory that there is a game to what Theresa May is doing
0:16:53 > 0:17:00and that there is something in place here.If you take today's language
0:17:00 > 0:17:03and misunderstanding is out of the picture, those options you were
0:17:03 > 0:17:10discussing, complete convergence, partial or Northern Ireland or
0:17:10 > 0:17:12Justice guarantee that was controversial all of them would
0:17:12 > 0:17:19create some kind of border, if Ireland were taken to be on the same
0:17:19 > 0:17:25regime. We know that is not acceptable for the DUP. And
0:17:25 > 0:17:30actually, in Dublin last week, talking to a lot of people, it is
0:17:30 > 0:17:35pretty unacceptable to the business community who don't want impediment
0:17:35 > 0:17:40on trade across the Irish Sea. That gives us a clue that the softer form
0:17:40 > 0:17:45of Brexit is in sight for the government here. We've seen all
0:17:45 > 0:17:50sorts of other clues, abandoning the Brexit language, the transition
0:17:50 > 0:17:54period, accepting the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice
0:17:54 > 0:18:00during that period, the cannon of EU law, it all trends in that direction
0:18:00 > 0:18:04and we got a fascinating glimpse, through the prism of Ireland, at
0:18:04 > 0:18:07this possibility that there is a plan and it's for a pretty soft form
0:18:07 > 0:18:14of Brexit.What would that look like? We've got examples of what
0:18:14 > 0:18:16soft Brexit look like and they've been rejected, whether it's the
0:18:16 > 0:18:24Norway model or whatever.For Theresa May, she obviously wanted to
0:18:24 > 0:18:29slalom around the critics on all sides and that's why she came out
0:18:29 > 0:18:32with Brexit means Brexit, red white and blue Brexit, she's trying to
0:18:32 > 0:18:37define it her own terms, because as soon as she says we'd like something
0:18:37 > 0:18:42like Norway it would become impossible for people to coalesce.
0:18:42 > 0:18:46Even in the Florence speech she voiced this idea that no, we don't
0:18:46 > 0:18:50want Norway, we don't want Canada, we must be able to do better than
0:18:50 > 0:18:56this binary option. Of course that's what they hope, people say that it
0:18:56 > 0:19:00is impossible, trying to have your cake and eat it, you can't have this
0:19:00 > 0:19:04deal, but it's possible that the UK will get a bespoke package that, in
0:19:04 > 0:19:10her terms, gets what she wants, the closest possible relationship. That
0:19:10 > 0:19:14means going pretty near to convergence on the customs and
0:19:14 > 0:19:17regulatory terms but carving out British exceptions.Thanks very
0:19:17 > 0:19:19much.
0:19:19 > 0:19:24As you may know by now, this programme has chosen to focus
0:19:24 > 0:19:27on a small area in the east of Damascus, the only rebel-held
0:19:27 > 0:19:29enclave between Assad's forces capturing the whole of Damascus
0:19:29 > 0:19:30and the surrounding area.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33Eastern Ghouta is suffering a humanitarian catastrophe -
0:19:33 > 0:19:37children are starving, the aid corridor is blocked.
0:19:37 > 0:19:41But this weekend, things got even worse: a bombardment of heavily
0:19:41 > 0:19:44crowded areas by jets believed to be Syrian and Russian.
0:19:44 > 0:19:49The attacks left yet more civilians dead.
0:19:49 > 0:19:54Here's Mike Thompson.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57While they discuss peace in Geneva, bombs, shells and bullets do
0:19:57 > 0:20:01the talking in Eastern Ghouta.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03Last week's brief ceasefire has
0:20:03 > 0:20:10given way to merciless violence, inflicted mainly on civilians.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15TRANSLATION:The current status quo is systematic targeting of every
0:20:15 > 0:20:19living creature in Eastern Ghouta.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22There is a population of more than 375,000 people here.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25Besieged by the regime forces.
0:20:25 > 0:20:26Unfortunately, today we are witnessing the annihilation
0:20:26 > 0:20:32of an entire population.
0:20:32 > 0:20:43In what is described as the fiercest bombing of the area in years,
0:20:44 > 0:20:45internationally-banned cluster bombs are among
0:20:45 > 0:20:47the deadly weapons being used.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50A quick look at a map of Syria shows why President Assad
0:20:50 > 0:20:53is so determined to retake, at almost any cost, this
0:20:53 > 0:20:58rebel enclave sitting on the capital's doorstep.
0:20:58 > 0:21:06The death toll over the last month has been rising steadily.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13TRANSLATION:More than 224 people were killed due to the heavy
0:21:13 > 0:21:16and deliberate bombardment, and hundreds of civilians injured.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20The tally could go up due to the lack of medical supplies
0:21:20 > 0:21:26in the treatment centres.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28This long besieged area, where malnutrition is rife,
0:21:28 > 0:21:31isn't only pitifully short of food.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34It's also fast running out of much-needed medical supplies
0:21:34 > 0:21:41to treat the soaring numbers of ill and injured.
0:21:43 > 0:21:46TRANSLATION:As a doctor I can see that emergency units
0:21:46 > 0:21:50are lacking even basic medical tools and supplies.
0:21:50 > 0:21:53For example we don't have any anaesthetic or medicine.
0:21:53 > 0:22:01And of course we have to work under heavy bombardment.
0:22:01 > 0:22:02The task facing hard-pressed doctors and rescue workers
0:22:02 > 0:22:06grows tougher by the day.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08And some now see help from the outside world
0:22:08 > 0:22:13as their only salvation.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18TRANSLATION:We plead with all international
0:22:18 > 0:22:23and humanitarian organisations to help us lift the siege and stop
0:22:23 > 0:22:25this barbaric machine that is killing innocent people
0:22:25 > 0:22:28under siege for the last five years.
0:22:28 > 0:22:35And we ask them to open humanitarian corridors immediately.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39But with no sign of any letup in the terrifying bombardment,
0:22:39 > 0:22:46and President Assad evidently bent on bringing this besieged
0:22:46 > 0:22:48rebel area to its knees, things might only get worse before
0:22:48 > 0:22:58they get better for the hundreds of thousands of people there.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00Mike Thomson reporting.
0:23:00 > 0:23:02Do you remember what you thought when you heard police claiming that
0:23:02 > 0:23:05a Tory MP's work computer had been found with thousands
0:23:05 > 0:23:09of pornographic images on it?
0:23:09 > 0:23:11We were struck by how little public outcry,
0:23:11 > 0:23:12even surprise, there was.
0:23:12 > 0:23:13Conservative colleagues rushed to defend Damian Green,
0:23:13 > 0:23:15who denied all the charges, believing it outrageous
0:23:15 > 0:23:20that the police had stored records of a ten-year-old investigation.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Others reminded us that the images were not illegal, not extreme.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Of course, we don't know who downloaded the images,
0:23:26 > 0:23:28or who used them, or how.
0:23:28 > 0:23:33Instead, tonight we ask a bigger question:
0:23:33 > 0:23:35has porn become socially acceptable, even in the workplace?
0:23:35 > 0:23:42Are we less shockable than we used to be?
0:23:42 > 0:23:44Jerry Barnett is a free speech campaigner and
0:23:44 > 0:23:45author of "Porn Panic!"
0:23:45 > 0:23:47Clarissa Smith is Professor of Sexual Cultures
0:23:47 > 0:23:48at the University of Sunderland.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51Steve Pope is psychotherapist who specialises in young people
0:23:51 > 0:23:52addicted to pornography.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54He's in Salford.
0:23:54 > 0:24:02Nice to have you here. As far as we know, do lots of people look at
0:24:02 > 0:24:09pornography at work?Well, there's been numerous anecdotal kinds of
0:24:09 > 0:24:16stories around that, actually. They are very from at least 80% of the
0:24:16 > 0:24:24workforce looking at five minutes of pawn a day, down to very few people.
0:24:24 > 0:24:29Clearly there are people looking at pornography.When you say 80%, is
0:24:29 > 0:24:35that divided between the sexes?This is the problem with statistics about
0:24:35 > 0:24:40pornography, we get straight into that, they are extrapolations from
0:24:40 > 0:24:43questions asked in particular workplaces. No one really knows what
0:24:43 > 0:24:48the stats are around pornography, who is watching and where. We can be
0:24:48 > 0:24:52sure I think that people are looking at pornographic material simply
0:24:52 > 0:24:59because we know that they spend their time doing other kinds of
0:24:59 > 0:25:09wasting work time, looking on eBay, buying things on Amazon, a bit of
0:25:09 > 0:25:12Lolcats.So people are putting pornography in that same bracket,
0:25:12 > 0:25:18it's like Facebook, Internet shopping and cat videos?I think if
0:25:18 > 0:25:23someone is looking at these things on their own in a private office and
0:25:23 > 0:25:26aren't involving anyone else, then the chances are that yes, it is like
0:25:26 > 0:25:34that.Gosh. Did the story surprise you? We're not bringing names into
0:25:34 > 0:25:40it, we are looking to attach blame, but would it surprise you is a lot
0:25:40 > 0:25:49of people spend a lot of time at work...?It wouldn't surprise me. I
0:25:49 > 0:25:52find from a lot of my civilian friends, they are much more likely
0:25:52 > 0:26:00to share pornographic images on WhatsApp. It is ubiquitous, small
0:26:00 > 0:26:06clips go around and people don't seem to think much of it. If
0:26:06 > 0:26:10anything, it was shocking, the idea that people would be shocked by the
0:26:10 > 0:26:14idea that an MP might look at pornography that was allegedly
0:26:14 > 0:26:23completely legal and not outside the ordinary. I have been tracking the
0:26:23 > 0:26:28pornography panic over at least a decade. The moral panic seems to
0:26:28 > 0:26:35have been within the media class and the political class and from
0:26:35 > 0:26:39campaigners...When you talk about moral panic, what do you mean?Over
0:26:39 > 0:26:44many years we'd been told, falsely, that pornography is linked to sexual
0:26:44 > 0:26:50violence, that it's linked to objectification, sexualisation,
0:26:50 > 0:26:55addiction, scary ideas. Actually, what I wanted to do in writing my
0:26:55 > 0:27:03book is look at why the panic is happening. In the Digital Economy
0:27:03 > 0:27:06Act In This Case, The Government Used Pornography And Excuse To Make
0:27:06 > 0:27:09Britain The First Democratic Country On Earth To Introduce An Internet
0:27:09 > 0:27:17Sensor With The Aim of censoring pornography, a big story that the
0:27:17 > 0:27:22media has missed.Do you accept this as a classification of panic over
0:27:22 > 0:27:28pornography?I think we should be concerned about it. I don't do
0:27:28 > 0:27:33statistics and labels, people don't get well from that. People are
0:27:33 > 0:27:40dying, kids are having a very jaundiced view of text and watching
0:27:40 > 0:27:46pornography from the age of 12 and we are having to pick up the pieces
0:27:46 > 0:27:54-- jaundiced view of sex. It is interwoven in our society and to
0:27:54 > 0:28:00downplay its the way that gentleman has just done, it is wrong. It is
0:28:00 > 0:28:04very serious.You say you don't want to cause panic and then went on to
0:28:04 > 0:28:08say that people are dying.He said he didn't want to use statistics but
0:28:08 > 0:28:15why wouldn't you panic, because he works with children?I've worked
0:28:15 > 0:28:22with a couple today, a 12 and 13-year-old, both of them think that
0:28:22 > 0:28:2750 Shades Of Grey is an acceptable way to act out. If we think that's
0:28:27 > 0:28:31acceptable, then the problem is bigger than I think.We've had this
0:28:31 > 0:28:37before, we had it in the 80s with the video nasty 's act, we had it
0:28:37 > 0:28:43with the American, horror comics in the 50s. When we say that people
0:28:43 > 0:28:47think this way and they do that and it's terrible and we need to deal
0:28:47 > 0:28:52with pornography because it must be that that's at the root of this, I'd
0:28:52 > 0:29:00take the you make about the fact that kids are learning about
0:29:00 > 0:29:04emotional, well rounded sexual relationships but pornography isn't
0:29:04 > 0:29:07responsible for the education of children.You don't believe it's
0:29:07 > 0:29:13that damaging?If we believe that pornography is a problem then we
0:29:13 > 0:29:18should have comprehensive sex education that recognises that young
0:29:18 > 0:29:23people need lots of information, that it will need to be explicit,
0:29:23 > 0:29:28that we'll need to mechanise what's sex means in a broader context than
0:29:28 > 0:29:34just reproduction.When you talk about people sharing pornography on
0:29:34 > 0:29:37WhatsApp, presumably you get it on your phone and look at it wherever
0:29:37 > 0:29:40you are, I've spoken to female colleagues who say that the idea
0:29:40 > 0:29:48that someone is looking at pornography is looking on at
0:29:48 > 0:29:51pornography and then carrying on a conversation is freaky.It probably
0:29:51 > 0:29:58isn't best done at work.But it is and that is the problem.If it
0:29:58 > 0:30:01upsets people, it's probably not suitable in the workplace but this
0:30:01 > 0:30:06is an employment issue, not a harm issue. I'd like to quote from the
0:30:06 > 0:30:12government to have done research on this. I'd like to point out, there's
0:30:12 > 0:30:17a lot of doubt on whether follow-up of the addiction exists. People make
0:30:17 > 0:30:21money, the pornography addiction therapy has been compared to the gay
0:30:21 > 0:30:30killers of the religious right in America -- gay cures. A quote
0:30:30 > 0:30:33suggesting there is no link between sex crimes and the use of
0:30:33 > 0:30:38pornography at early age but there is evidence for the opposite.Let me
0:30:38 > 0:30:44go back to Steve.
0:30:44 > 0:30:47Here we go again. I work day in, day out with children from the age of 12
0:30:47 > 0:30:51to 17 who are materially influenced by what they see as being normal
0:30:51 > 0:30:55sexual acts which are usually sexually aggressive acts. They are
0:30:55 > 0:31:00acting out behaviours and they look for a bigger hit. They can instantly
0:31:00 > 0:31:04access it on their iPad.But among teenagers, sexual violence has
0:31:04 > 0:31:12fallen.I am telling you what I see on the street. I am hands-on. I see
0:31:12 > 0:31:15it happen everyday, and what I am saying is that children are being
0:31:15 > 0:31:18influenced. It is an awful influence on them by the effect of
0:31:18 > 0:31:22pornography. I agree with the lady, we have to take it into primary
0:31:22 > 0:31:26schools and we have to educate children on the potential evils,
0:31:26 > 0:31:30because it is an addictive issue. Not everyone is affected, but it is
0:31:30 > 0:31:36an addictive issue. It is an instant high for boys looking at pornography
0:31:36 > 0:31:41and we have to do something about it.Clarissa, the point is the ease
0:31:41 > 0:31:48of accessibility. If it is skewing, there is nothing that shuts this
0:31:48 > 0:31:53down. When you talk about people using it almost as a boredom tool at
0:31:53 > 0:31:59work...There is a whole set of things at work that we are mixing up
0:31:59 > 0:32:06here. When we talk about how the media influences young people...
0:32:06 > 0:32:10There are various levels of reality that people engage with when viewing
0:32:10 > 0:32:16media. Porn is just one form of talk about sex in our culture. It's not
0:32:16 > 0:32:26the only talk about sex. Actually, one of the problems we have is that
0:32:26 > 0:32:31maybe we are not offering good counters to young people. But
0:32:31 > 0:32:36actually, in this process, we are now talking about porn at work and
0:32:36 > 0:32:40we have ended up talking about 12-year-olds. These are not the same
0:32:40 > 0:32:47thing. While adults may be looking at porn at work, we could talk about
0:32:47 > 0:32:52why work is so boring if that is what is happening. If we are going
0:32:52 > 0:32:57to talk about accessibility, there are ways in which our work and home
0:32:57 > 0:33:06lives have changed, and a border between them has disappeared.We
0:33:06 > 0:33:09carry our smartphone is everywhere. That as a whole bigger question, but
0:33:09 > 0:33:12it was great to have the chance to talk to you all. Thank you very
0:33:12 > 0:33:16much.
0:33:16 > 0:33:19If you can't tell your Jack Sparrow from your chicken, your Taylor Swift
0:33:19 > 0:33:22from your ostrich or Michael J Fox from the creature that's knocking
0:33:22 > 0:33:24over your bins at night - then you're not alone.
0:33:24 > 0:33:27Losing touch with nature is a subject that also preoccupies
0:33:27 > 0:33:28the travel writer Robert Macfarlane.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31For Newsnight, we asked him to author a film about his concerns.
0:33:31 > 0:33:41MUSIC: Chanson de Matin by Edward Elgar.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47There are two things that the British sentimentalise
0:33:47 > 0:33:49more avidly than anything else.
0:33:49 > 0:33:55Nature and childhood.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58But these are crucial subjects and to me, it's unmistakable
0:33:58 > 0:34:00that a gap is currently widening between children and the natural
0:34:00 > 0:34:10world in this country.
0:34:11 > 0:34:12Slugs and snails.
0:34:12 > 0:34:13Shall I go and get them?
0:34:13 > 0:34:16Three years ago, I read a paper in the journal Science
0:34:16 > 0:34:19and its findings startled me.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22It was about children's everyday knowledge of nature in this country.
0:34:22 > 0:34:24And what the researchers discovered is that children aged 8-11
0:34:24 > 0:34:26were substantially better at identifying common Pokemon
0:34:26 > 0:34:29species than they were at identifying common species
0:34:29 > 0:34:33of British wildlife.
0:34:33 > 0:34:34For weasel, read Weedle.
0:34:34 > 0:34:35For wren, read Wigglytuff.
0:34:35 > 0:34:43For badger, read Bulbasaur.
0:34:43 > 0:34:49Any conkers under your feet?
0:34:49 > 0:34:50I have about a thousand conkers.
0:34:50 > 0:34:52You have about a thousand, do you?
0:34:52 > 0:34:53That's good.
0:34:53 > 0:34:55British children now spend on average less time outdoors
0:34:55 > 0:34:56each day than prisoners.
0:34:56 > 0:34:58They're climbing walls, not trees.
0:34:58 > 0:34:58Under an hour outside.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Screen time has soared and screen time is mostly inside time.
0:35:01 > 0:35:03Poverty, postcode, ethnicity, risk perception, these all affect
0:35:03 > 0:35:05children's experience of nature, but they all, in my
0:35:05 > 0:35:10opinion, need it.
0:35:10 > 0:35:11Shall we run, everyone?
0:35:11 > 0:35:13Come on, let's go.
0:35:13 > 0:35:17When I first read the Pokemon paper, as I've come to think about it,
0:35:17 > 0:35:17my response was twofold.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21An anxiety of what was being lost and a wish, a powerful wish,
0:35:21 > 0:35:25to do something hopeful in response.
0:35:25 > 0:35:29And out of that came The Lost Words: A Spell Book,
0:35:29 > 0:35:33which the artist Jackie Morris and I worked on for two years.
0:35:33 > 0:35:37At its heart was a very simple idea.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41We'd take 20 names for 20 common creatures and plants in the British
0:35:41 > 0:35:43landscape and then, by a kind
0:35:43 > 0:35:46of magical thinking, by the power of spells that might be
0:35:46 > 0:35:49spoken and images that were painted, we would try and summon back those
0:35:49 > 0:35:51creatures and those trees and plants into the mouths
0:35:51 > 0:35:57and mind's eyes of children.
0:35:57 > 0:36:00There it is.
0:36:00 > 0:36:04I was thinking in a way, it was and still is a very simple
0:36:04 > 0:36:06thing we were trying to do, to take 20 names
0:36:06 > 0:36:11for 20 very common...
0:36:11 > 0:36:1220 quite simple words.
0:36:12 > 0:36:13Full words, wren, bluebell.
0:36:13 > 0:36:14Raven.
0:36:14 > 0:36:15Otter, acorn.
0:36:15 > 0:36:18Your eyes, when you're in a bluebell wood, it's almost
0:36:18 > 0:36:20like the light comes up from the ground and it
0:36:20 > 0:36:25fills up your eyes.
0:36:25 > 0:36:28I know it's called The Lost Words, but it was only when I sat
0:36:28 > 0:36:38in a classroom in front of 32 children and they didn't know what
0:36:40 > 0:36:45A wren was, or Kingfisher. But they would have heard wrens. Now, the
0:36:45 > 0:36:51next little brown bird goes past, they will be curious.When wren
0:36:51 > 0:37:01words from stone to firms, the world around her slows. Wren song is sharp
0:37:01 > 0:37:09song, and a wren's flight is quick flight, light flight, yes. Each wren
0:37:09 > 0:37:14edges, switches, glitches. Yes, now you think you see wren, now you know
0:37:14 > 0:37:17you don't. It's not just children who are forgetting these things. A
0:37:17 > 0:37:21wildlife trust survey from earlier this year found that a third of
0:37:21 > 0:37:25British adults couldn't identify a bar now. Three quarters didn't know
0:37:25 > 0:37:29an ashtray. And two thirds felt that they had lost touch with nature.
0:37:29 > 0:37:33Yes, the basic literacy of the living world is slipping from us up
0:37:33 > 0:37:43and down the ages. We were in the exhibition and then we came out and
0:37:43 > 0:37:46an amazing thing happened. We released children into the wild, and
0:37:46 > 0:37:52it took them about one and a half seconds to start picking things up,
0:37:52 > 0:37:58telling stories, giving names. Finding leaves, comparing colours.
0:37:58 > 0:38:04And a worm became a desert crossing, this incredible creature machine.
0:38:04 > 0:38:11And when you said, how does it move? It appoints itself into its body.It
0:38:11 > 0:38:15was amazing, and that is exactly it. We saw this unbelievable ability
0:38:15 > 0:38:21that children have, in seconds, they are natural is the nature. Put them
0:38:21 > 0:38:26in a wood, a tree or a field and they tell stories, they find, they
0:38:26 > 0:38:31seek, they hide, they gather. Guys, we have a raven here. Has anyone
0:38:31 > 0:38:36ever seen one? They eat eggs and they each sheep's eyes as well.How
0:38:36 > 0:38:42do they get them?It's not a very nice story. They peck the eyes out
0:38:42 > 0:38:46of sheep that are ill or sheep that are caught in snowdrifts. They eat
0:38:46 > 0:38:51other birds' eggs. They are absolute pirates. Why does it matter, though?
0:38:51 > 0:38:55Why do names matter? Why does being able to tell the difference between
0:38:55 > 0:39:00a stunning red blackbird or between a cherry tree and a hawthorn tree
0:39:00 > 0:39:02matter? It matters because we are losing nature as well as the names
0:39:02 > 0:39:08for nature in this country. We have more than 50% of species in decline.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12Many of them are common. We have stopped darlings and skylarks and
0:39:12 > 0:39:19newts and hedgehogs going. Names, good names, well used, help us see
0:39:19 > 0:39:23and they help us care. We find it hard to love what we cannot give a
0:39:23 > 0:39:34name to. And what we do not love, we will not save.
0:39:34 > 0:39:40That was Robert Macfarlane. Let's take you through tomorrow's papers.
0:39:40 > 0:39:47They are all leading on the Brexit talks. The new Deal shambles, says
0:39:47 > 0:39:59the Daily Mail. And the same picture on the front of the Guardian, DUP
0:39:59 > 0:40:02Rex May's Brexit deal, no words minced.
0:40:02 > 0:40:03That's almost it for tonight.
0:40:03 > 0:40:05But before we go, have you ever wondered how some
0:40:05 > 0:40:07people have all the luck?
0:40:07 > 0:40:09The best job, the most beautiful life partner, the coolest house.
0:40:09 > 0:40:11And you just wonder how it happened?
0:40:11 > 0:40:12Well, one British video artist did.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16This is Swedemason's own mash-up, with thanks to Talking Heads.
0:40:16 > 0:40:16Evan's here tomorrow.
0:40:16 > 0:40:20Good night.
0:40:20 > 0:40:22MUSIC: Once In A Lifetime by Talking Heads
0:40:22 > 0:40:24# ..Into the blue again after the money's gone
0:40:24 > 0:40:26# Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground
0:40:26 > 0:40:28# You may ask yourself
0:40:28 > 0:40:30# What is that beautiful house?
0:40:30 > 0:40:32# And you may ask yourself
0:40:32 > 0:40:34# Where does that highway go to?
0:40:34 > 0:40:36# And you may ask yourself
0:40:36 > 0:40:38# Am I right? Am I wrong?
0:40:38 > 0:40:40# And you may say to yourself
0:40:40 > 0:40:42# "My God! What have I done?"
0:40:42 > 0:40:46# Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
0:40:46 > 0:40:50# Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
0:40:50 > 0:40:53# Into the blue again...
0:40:53 > 0:40:53# Into the blue again...