0:00:05 > 0:00:08Ireland is unhappy.
0:00:08 > 0:00:13The DUP is unhappy.
0:00:13 > 0:00:18And now some of the Brexiteers in her own party are very unhappy.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21This is a game being played out over power and the answer at the end
0:00:21 > 0:00:24boils down to who will call the shots on this, and right now
0:00:24 > 0:00:27we have to say, not good enough.
0:00:27 > 0:00:31You need to change this process and to back off, otherwise we get
0:00:31 > 0:00:36on with other arrangements.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38Can Theresa May escape the tangle of competing demands
0:00:38 > 0:00:40on her Brexit vision?
0:00:40 > 0:00:42The clock is ticking.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46We hear from the European Parliament and from a prominent Brexiteer.
0:00:46 > 0:00:51Should Britain or the EU make the next concession?
0:00:51 > 0:00:53A doctor made a series of mistakes.
0:00:53 > 0:00:54A six-year-old child died.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58Should the doctor be allowed to practise again?
0:00:58 > 0:01:01We hear from the mother of Jack Adcock, who died
0:01:01 > 0:01:04at the Leicester Royal Infirmary, and a doctor who wants the NHS
0:01:04 > 0:01:08to learn lessons rather than punish those who make errors.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10Putin likes showing the world his sporting prowess.
0:01:10 > 0:01:15But his country's team are barred from the 2018 Winter Olympics.
0:01:15 > 0:01:20Does he benefit from playing the victim of the West?
0:01:20 > 0:01:22We ask the president of the anti-doping authorities
0:01:22 > 0:01:26and an expert on Russian democracy.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Hello.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36A Brexit deal to get us to the next phase of talks
0:01:36 > 0:01:39didn't happen yesterday, and today there's been more drama.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43Theresa May is now trapped between Brexiteer MPs' desire
0:01:43 > 0:01:46to stop making concessions, the Taoiseach's veto over the next
0:01:46 > 0:01:50round of talks, and the DUP's hold over her government.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Is it like the end of Reservoir Dogs?
0:01:52 > 0:01:54Feels like it.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56But at the heart of it is a trilemma.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59The UK Government is looking for three things from which the EU
0:01:59 > 0:02:02says we can only have two.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05Britain wants no land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
0:02:05 > 0:02:07It wants no sea border between Northern Ireland
0:02:07 > 0:02:10and the rest of the UK.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14But it wants no EU control at home - independence from EU rules -
0:02:14 > 0:02:19which implies a border between Britain and the EU.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22The Irish say they'll not accept a breach of number one.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25The DUP will not tolerate a breach of number two.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28So does that mean we have no choice but to breach number three?
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Well, that's not what Iain Duncan Smith and his
0:02:30 > 0:02:32fellow Brexiteers want.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Brexit Secretary David Davis kind of admitted that three
0:02:34 > 0:02:37is the one to look at, but in the Commons today he thought
0:02:37 > 0:02:41we could still take back control even if we align many of our rules
0:02:41 > 0:02:45to the EU's.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48The presumption of the discussion was that everything we talked
0:02:48 > 0:02:52about applied to the whole United Kingdom.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55Alignment isn't harmonisation.
0:02:55 > 0:02:56It isn't having exactly the same rules.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59It is sometimes having mutually recognised rules,
0:02:59 > 0:03:03mutually recognised inspection - that is what we are aiming at.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06Well, can we really have a UK-wide arrangement that allows us to be
0:03:06 > 0:03:08different from the EU, but similar enough for Northern
0:03:08 > 0:03:10Ireland not to have a border?
0:03:10 > 0:03:13There are two thoughts about this.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16We need a fudge in a form of words that simply gets us
0:03:16 > 0:03:19to the next stage of talks, and then we work out
0:03:19 > 0:03:20a solution properly later.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22Or that we have to face the difficult choice now,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25as it won't go away by a carefully drafted piece of
0:03:25 > 0:03:26constructive ambiguity.
0:03:26 > 0:03:33Nick Watt is with me.
0:03:33 > 0:03:39What did you make of David Davis 's session?Those specific remarks were
0:03:39 > 0:03:45meant to reassure the DUP that this idea, this new buzz phrase, of
0:03:45 > 0:03:50regulatory alignment would apply across the UK. Yes, there would be a
0:03:50 > 0:03:53Northern Ireland element, which is essentially embedding those elements
0:03:53 > 0:03:56are cross-border co-operation in the Good Friday agreement, but the UK
0:03:56 > 0:04:02wide element is how you deliver that regulatory alignment and what it is
0:04:02 > 0:04:08about is the UK deciding what to do as a rule-maker, deciding which bits
0:04:08 > 0:04:13of regulation to accept, not meekly accepting them from the EU as a rule
0:04:13 > 0:04:18taker. Now, this was not good enough for some Tory Brexiteer is. I'm told
0:04:18 > 0:04:24after that statement one leading figure eyeballed David Davis across
0:04:24 > 0:04:28the lunch table and said, this will not do, you cannot sign up to this.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32So I've been looking at how this row with the DUP is now spreading into
0:04:32 > 0:04:38the Tory Party.
0:04:38 > 0:04:45The season of goodwill should soon be upon us. For the moment, it all
0:04:45 > 0:04:49feels a bit scratchy as the Government's Brexit negotiations are
0:04:49 > 0:04:55thrown into the air. In an ideal world, Theresa May would have hailed
0:04:55 > 0:05:01an EU deal with a European ally today. A pre-Christmas meeting with
0:05:01 > 0:05:05her Spanish counterpart still went ahead. The Prime Minister now faces
0:05:05 > 0:05:13a new headache after Tory-Leave supporters rejected the EU proposed
0:05:13 > 0:05:19deal in its current form.The Prime Minister has bent over backwards in
0:05:19 > 0:05:24every way and we have been rebuffed by the EU. They need to go away and
0:05:24 > 0:05:28think again. Today we want a trade arrangement? In which case it's a
0:05:28 > 0:05:34bit absurd to block everything up before you discuss trade.Iain
0:05:34 > 0:05:40Duncan Smith took his cue from the DUP.We want to see a sensible
0:05:40 > 0:05:43Brexit and we will work through the basis of the clear red lines we have
0:05:43 > 0:05:47set down, which are, as we understand it, the red lines of the
0:05:47 > 0:05:52Government as well, so a sensible Brexit in which the UK leaves as one
0:05:52 > 0:05:56nation with a sensible relationship with the rest of the EU.Tory
0:05:56 > 0:06:01Brexiteers are delighted with the DUP. One told me, their intervention
0:06:01 > 0:06:05has saved us having to rebel against the Government in Parliament. Those
0:06:05 > 0:06:09Tories want to use the pause is to try and change the pace of the
0:06:09 > 0:06:14negotiations. The aim is to stop the Prime Minister offering what they
0:06:14 > 0:06:18fear are irrevocable commitments to the EU that could not be withdrawn
0:06:18 > 0:06:25even if the UK is unhappy with the final deal. If that can't be done,
0:06:25 > 0:06:32they say simply the UK should walk away. Labour is alarmed by the new
0:06:32 > 0:06:37alliance between the DUP and the Tory Brexiteers.It is grossly
0:06:37 > 0:06:40irresponsible to be advocating walking away from these
0:06:40 > 0:06:44negotiations. And sure the Prime Minister isn't going to do that. The
0:06:44 > 0:06:50surest way to ensure a hard border in Northern Ireland is to walk away
0:06:50 > 0:06:54from these negotiations, it is to walk away from our responsibilities.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58The current impasse over the Irish border prompted the leaders of
0:06:58 > 0:07:01Britain's devolved bodies to warn that the UK is facing a delicate
0:07:01 > 0:07:06moment. The First Minister of Wales believes the UK Government would be
0:07:06 > 0:07:13wise to consult more widely.We would prefer to be more closely
0:07:13 > 0:07:15involved in the Brexit negotiations. I think we could be constructive in
0:07:15 > 0:07:20terms of what we have to offer. We can, I think, provide a helping hand
0:07:20 > 0:07:25to the UK Government. It's not as preventing Brexit, that's not going
0:07:25 > 0:07:28to happen, but there are sensible, pragmatic people in the government
0:07:28 > 0:07:33who want it to be a Brexit that works for Britain and not some
0:07:33 > 0:07:37hard-line, nationalist Brexit that some in the Tory Party seem to want.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41Amid a swirl of uncertainty, Theresa May is hoping to restore some calm,
0:07:41 > 0:07:45but the Prime Minister knows she faces a formidable challenge to
0:07:45 > 0:07:48settle this issue.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52And Nick is still here.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57Do you think she can get this show back on the road, particularly with
0:07:57 > 0:08:02the clock ticking?I sense a less than optimistic view of meeting that
0:08:02 > 0:08:05by this Friday deadline. There had been thought that the Prime Minister
0:08:05 > 0:08:10would go to Brussels after PMQs tomorrow. I think she will not even
0:08:10 > 0:08:17be there by Thursday because the DUP are really digging in. Are saying
0:08:17 > 0:08:20there have to be substantial amendments to this proposed deal
0:08:20 > 0:08:26with the EU. -- they are saying. The wording stage, there needs to be
0:08:26 > 0:08:30lots more wording, and then they are saying, we are not accepting this
0:08:30 > 0:08:33deadline, even the deadline of sorting this out by the EU council
0:08:33 > 0:08:38next week. They have said, the EU, they can hold an emergency summit,
0:08:38 > 0:08:42they've done it before, so why can't they do it again? But there is a
0:08:42 > 0:08:46potential chink of light for the Government. The DUP's Red Line is
0:08:46 > 0:08:51that there must be complete, let's use our favourite word, alignment
0:08:51 > 0:08:55between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, and if that can be
0:08:55 > 0:09:01achieved, then possibly Theresa May could be able to win the DUP, if not
0:09:01 > 0:09:06many of her Tory Brexiteers.Thank you.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08While Theresa May works her way through all of this,
0:09:08 > 0:09:10she does so, of course, against the ticking clock
0:09:10 > 0:09:14of the EU's deadline of the end of this week to reach an agreement
0:09:14 > 0:09:16if Britain is to unlock the next round of talks.
0:09:16 > 0:09:17So what's the mood in Brussels?
0:09:17 > 0:09:20I spoke earlier to the Dutch MEP Sophie in't Veld,
0:09:20 > 0:09:22deputy of the EU Parliament's chief negotiator Guy Verhofstadt.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25I asked whether after David Davis said in the Commons today
0:09:25 > 0:09:27that the plan was always for Northern Ireland
0:09:27 > 0:09:30to have the same regulatory arrangements as the rest of the UK,
0:09:30 > 0:09:36if that was her understanding of yesterday's deal?
0:09:36 > 0:09:39Well, I think that's fantastic because that in essence means Brexit
0:09:39 > 0:09:44isn't going to happen, because if there is regulatory alignment
0:09:44 > 0:09:47Ferrari large part, then the UK would still follow the same EU
0:09:47 > 0:09:51rules. It doesn't make much sense to me but if that is what he proposes,
0:09:51 > 0:09:59that sounds very good.If we went down the David Davis route, would we
0:09:59 > 0:10:06have to have free movement as well? We're talking about very shady
0:10:06 > 0:10:11proposals here. We don't know what we are actually talking about.It
0:10:11 > 0:10:19sounds like you don't know...But nobody knows.OK!At some point, we
0:10:19 > 0:10:24would also like to know exactly what it is that the UK Government wants.
0:10:24 > 0:10:29Only once we have a clear idea that can renegotiate.Can I ask whether
0:10:29 > 0:10:34you think there was any solution, any solution, to the Northern
0:10:34 > 0:10:39Ireland border issue that doesn't involve a border between Britain and
0:10:39 > 0:10:43Northern Ireland, and allows Theresa May to keep her red line? She is
0:10:43 > 0:10:47spelt out some red lines. Can she keep those, not have a border down
0:10:47 > 0:10:51the Irish tee and not have a border with the Republic of Ireland? Does
0:10:51 > 0:10:59that work in any way at all? -- down the Irish Sea.There won't be a
0:10:59 > 0:11:05border. The question is how it will work in practice. One solution is
0:11:05 > 0:11:09going to be apparently one that the government has in mind, which is,
0:11:09 > 0:11:14OK, we won't set up a physical border post but we will just put up
0:11:14 > 0:11:17some cameras and sensors. No, clearly that won't work because
0:11:17 > 0:11:22people will not accept it. There will have to be a soft border. I
0:11:22 > 0:11:27think that's clear. Otherwise you jeopardise the Good Friday agreement
0:11:27 > 0:11:33and that would be disastrous.You are jeopardising the Good Friday
0:11:33 > 0:11:37agreement by potentially ruling out a deal with the UK that is
0:11:37 > 0:11:42acceptable to the UK. It takes two sides are there to be no deal,
0:11:42 > 0:11:45doesn't it? If there is no deal, you would want to put a border there to
0:11:45 > 0:11:50protect the integrity of your single market.This is a very strange way
0:11:50 > 0:11:55of looking at it, and I am also a little bit irritated. The EU is an
0:11:55 > 0:12:00entity that's been around for around 60 years and for over 40 years the
0:12:00 > 0:12:05UK has been a member. The UK has been building the EU as much as any
0:12:05 > 0:12:09other country and in fact it has been in the forefront building the
0:12:09 > 0:12:14single market. Now, the UK has chosen to leave the EU for the time
0:12:14 > 0:12:18-- and for the time being it looks as though they want to leave the
0:12:18 > 0:12:22internal market. The UK knows better than anybody else what the rules of
0:12:22 > 0:12:25the single market are. You've created them together with the rest
0:12:25 > 0:12:30of Europe.I wonder whether you think that the rest of the EU will
0:12:30 > 0:12:36go all the way to the wire on this issue backing up Ireland. Ireland
0:12:36 > 0:12:40says we have a veto but we don't need to use it because everybody is
0:12:40 > 0:12:44supporting them. Is everybody supporting Ireland on this?Yes. The
0:12:44 > 0:12:50way I understood it - I mean, I wasn't in the room - but the way I
0:12:50 > 0:12:55understood it is that Theresa May said, OK, can we debate on this
0:12:55 > 0:12:58notion of regulatory alignment for Northern Ireland and see if that is
0:12:58 > 0:13:01a basis for negotiations? That was a very positive step. But then
0:13:01 > 0:13:07apparently she got a phone call from the DUP telling her, no, you are
0:13:07 > 0:13:14not. So then she also has to choose. Who is in charge?Do you have some
0:13:14 > 0:13:16sympathy for her predicament, though, given she is between the
0:13:16 > 0:13:21Republic of Ireland that has a veto over the next stage, the DUP that is
0:13:21 > 0:13:24holding her government in office, and indeed the aspirations of those
0:13:24 > 0:13:30who voted for Brexit last year in the referendum?Of course! I'm very
0:13:30 > 0:13:35happy I'm not in her shoes. I recognise it's very difficult and
0:13:35 > 0:13:39contrary to what some of the British media are reporting, there is really
0:13:39 > 0:13:44nobody, I've met nobody, in the European Parliament that is somehow
0:13:44 > 0:13:51out to Pina lies the UK. Quite the opposite. -- out to punish the UK.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54People in the Netherlands want to keep close ties to the UK but with a
0:13:54 > 0:14:00limit to what you can do in saying, OK, you can leave the EU, you will
0:14:00 > 0:14:04have access to the single market but you don't have to abide by the rules
0:14:04 > 0:14:07everybody else has too. But is simply not an option and I think you
0:14:07 > 0:14:12and everybody will understand that. Thank you for talking to us. I
0:14:12 > 0:14:15appreciate it.
0:14:15 > 0:14:17Yesterday's deal, acceptable to the Irish, implied that come
0:14:17 > 0:14:20what may, when Brexit happens, Northern Ireland will not diverge
0:14:20 > 0:14:22from the EU in ways that might require the construction
0:14:22 > 0:14:23of a border.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26As we've just heard from that interview, it seems even now some
0:14:26 > 0:14:29in the EU are not clear on exactly what the British plans are.
0:14:29 > 0:14:35We'll discuss this in moment with a Brexit-supporting Tory MP,
0:14:35 > 0:14:37but first our business editor, Helen Thomas, has been trying
0:14:37 > 0:14:52to make sense of the options.
0:14:52 > 0:14:57Here is the problem in a nutshell or a milk bottle. Everyone wants to
0:14:57 > 0:15:02avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, so milk
0:15:02 > 0:15:07can flow freely between North and South much as it does now. Hence the
0:15:07 > 0:15:11proposal this week. If the UK doesn't get the broad free trade
0:15:11 > 0:15:18deal that it once it would still commit to regulatory alignment,
0:15:18 > 0:15:22particularly in key areas like agriculture between Northern Ireland
0:15:22 > 0:15:27and the South. What alignment means was left probably intentionally
0:15:27 > 0:15:32vague. Is it really any different from Noel diverges harmonisation or
0:15:32 > 0:15:39equivalence? But the main message was clear, animals and animal
0:15:39 > 0:15:43products would not need to be checked at special border inspection
0:15:43 > 0:15:48posts. Here is the first problem. The implication was that Northern
0:15:48 > 0:15:53Ireland could follow some single market regulations, even if the rest
0:15:53 > 0:16:00of the UK chose not to. Entered the DUP. To them even that theoretical
0:16:00 > 0:16:05diverges between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK is totally
0:16:05 > 0:16:09unacceptable. It might mean no border between Northern Ireland and
0:16:09 > 0:16:12the Republic, but instead you would need checks between Northern Ireland
0:16:12 > 0:16:18and Great Britain. Why? Well there is our old friend the chlorine
0:16:18 > 0:16:25washed chicken. Say the UK did its much discussed deal with the US and
0:16:25 > 0:16:30accepted deploring chicken, banned by the EU. To keep that pesky
0:16:30 > 0:16:35poultry out would require a border check either between Great Britain
0:16:35 > 0:16:38and Northern Ireland or Northern Ireland and the Republic. But that
0:16:38 > 0:16:45is unacceptable either to the DUP or the Irish. So could the UK align
0:16:45 > 0:16:50itself entirely with EU rules in certain key areas? No borders, but
0:16:50 > 0:16:55then we couldn't agreed to buy US chicken. That could scupper our
0:16:55 > 0:17:06great plans for other trade deals. There is another problem. Regulatory
0:17:06 > 0:17:10alignment is not necessarily enough to avoid any physical borders. For
0:17:10 > 0:17:15that you might need a customs union or agreeing the same set of external
0:17:15 > 0:17:20tariffs for goods arriving from non-EU countries. Without it, well
0:17:20 > 0:17:25you are still going to need some customs checks somewhere. Of course,
0:17:25 > 0:17:31the government expects to get it broader deal but even to start talks
0:17:31 > 0:17:35means a border -based phage. The possibility of Northern Ireland
0:17:35 > 0:17:40having different rules from the rest of the UK or the idea of the whole
0:17:40 > 0:17:43UK aligning itself with the EU longer term on regulations and
0:17:43 > 0:17:50customs. I hope you have got the hang of the conundrum.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52Kwasi Kwarteng is a Brexit-backing Conservative MP
0:17:52 > 0:17:54and the Parliamentary private secretary to the Chancellor,
0:17:54 > 0:17:57Philip Hammond.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01Good evening. First, get you to comment on what Iain Duncan Smith
0:18:01 > 0:18:06said? He seems as if to say scrap that if the EU do not move. We will
0:18:06 > 0:18:12not try and have a deal.The main thing to remember is that Iain
0:18:12 > 0:18:19Duncan Smith, myself, Theresa May, Ruth Davidson, we are all unionists
0:18:19 > 0:18:22and the idea that Northern Ireland was going to be treated differently
0:18:22 > 0:18:26from the rest of the UK is something that needs to be put to bed. That
0:18:26 > 0:18:33stock were to happen. We are committed to having a UK solution to
0:18:33 > 0:18:37the problem you have outlined. What I would say broadly is that there
0:18:37 > 0:18:41are two aspects to this, there is the British Government's negotiation
0:18:41 > 0:18:45with the EU which I know your piece did not reflect on but is going
0:18:45 > 0:18:51well. The Chancellor said it was likely there was going to be a deal,
0:18:51 > 0:18:57Donald Tusk...Rather than talk about my successes...You did not
0:18:57 > 0:19:00mention the successes. It is very important that viewers realise that
0:19:00 > 0:19:06the talks are going quite well.You got it down to the intractable end
0:19:06 > 0:19:09product and these are the ones that are not being sold because they are
0:19:09 > 0:19:14difficult. Can I ask which you would prefer? If the EU gave us a choice
0:19:14 > 0:19:18would you rather there was a border between Britain and Northern Ireland
0:19:18 > 0:19:25which you have just ruled out would you rather that Britain stayed in
0:19:25 > 0:19:29the single market or close to it?I reject the premise. Both of those?
0:19:29 > 0:19:34What I am saying is that we have two issues, and negotiation with EU
0:19:34 > 0:19:41which is going very well.I except it has gone well on 90% of things.
0:19:41 > 0:19:46Then we have the issue of the border in Northern Ireland. We were very
0:19:46 > 0:19:51close to a deal, the regulatory alignment formula, as David Davis
0:19:51 > 0:19:56said today in the House of Commons, does not mean that we have exactly
0:19:56 > 0:20:00the same rules. It is not the same to use this phrase as harmonisation.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03That is something that we have got to get our heads around and at the
0:20:03 > 0:20:08same time we have not really entered, as your clip said, we have
0:20:08 > 0:20:13not really entered the main nub. You're happy with what David Davis
0:20:13 > 0:20:18said today, that there is a degree of alignment and to some extent, not
0:20:18 > 0:20:22as much as been in the single market, but the whole of the UK, to
0:20:22 > 0:20:27some extent aligns itself...If you look around the world, New Zealand
0:20:27 > 0:20:32and Australia, they have a degree of regulatory alignment. These
0:20:32 > 0:20:38countries, forgive me, these countries are sovereign nations.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42They are not the same country. We have got the alignment, that is
0:20:42 > 0:20:46where we are and you would accept that. I did not get the feeling that
0:20:46 > 0:20:50Iain Duncan Smith would accept it but you would, is that the Brexit
0:20:50 > 0:20:55that people thought they were voting for?The Brexit that people were
0:20:55 > 0:21:01voting for broadly, which is as a Brexiteer, is to have control of
0:21:01 > 0:21:06borders, freedom of movement and I think we will deliver on that. There
0:21:06 > 0:21:10is also the issue of the European Court of Justice being superior as
0:21:10 > 0:21:14it were to British law and I think we are going to claim sovereignty on
0:21:14 > 0:21:18that and the third item was obviously the money. It is clear to
0:21:18 > 0:21:23me on the money side, we are not going to continue playing -- pain
0:21:23 > 0:21:27and net contribution of 10 billion every single year until kingdom come
0:21:27 > 0:21:32to the EU, that is ending and that was the nature of... All three of
0:21:32 > 0:21:37those issues I think we will deliver on.It was not said in the campaign
0:21:37 > 0:21:42that there would be a degree of alignment, this problem seems to
0:21:42 > 0:21:48have come as a surprise to the Brexit side of the argument.If you
0:21:48 > 0:21:52spoke to a Brexiteer on the campaign, people were very keen that
0:21:52 > 0:21:56we had a free trade deal. There would be a free trade deal between
0:21:56 > 0:22:01the UK and EU. The nature of free trade deals, you are an economist,
0:22:01 > 0:22:06you understand, that there is some degree regulatory alignment in free
0:22:06 > 0:22:12trade.It is on that basis. When Iain Duncan Smith says no deal, we
0:22:12 > 0:22:16could walk away, what do you think of the no Deal option? There are
0:22:16 > 0:22:20differing views about how bad that would be.I think that is very
0:22:20 > 0:22:25unlikely. I say that because I speak to the Chancellor, people in
0:22:25 > 0:22:33government and the broad Conservative Party.Is it bad, would
0:22:33 > 0:22:40be a tragedy for the UK economy?I'm here as a Brexiteer, I campaigned on
0:22:40 > 0:22:45your show, I took part in debates, I have not been frightened of the idea
0:22:45 > 0:22:49of no deal. I always said that Britain had a great future and a
0:22:49 > 0:22:53great ability to trade its way into gaining prosperity is with no deal
0:22:53 > 0:22:56but that is not something that I think is on the cards and I think it
0:22:56 > 0:23:01is much more likely that we will get a deal.OK, thank you.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03Back in 2011 a young boy, Jack Adcock, died
0:23:03 > 0:23:05in hospital in Leicester.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07It was obviously a tragic case, but also one with implications
0:23:07 > 0:23:09for medical staff today.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11A doctor and a nurse were convicted of manslaughter over Jack's death
0:23:11 > 0:23:14and the doctor is now at the centre of an argument about
0:23:14 > 0:23:18whether she should be allowed to continue practising.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21A letter to The Times today from hundreds of medics and others
0:23:21 > 0:23:23says she should be allowed to keep working.
0:23:23 > 0:23:29Here is a brief history of the case.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31It was February 2011 when six-year-old Jack Adcock,
0:23:31 > 0:23:34a child with Down's syndrome, died of a cardiac arrest
0:23:34 > 0:23:38at Leicester Royal Infirmary.
0:23:38 > 0:23:45He had developed sepsis but it was not diagnosed.
0:23:45 > 0:23:50And although not a cause of death, Dr Hadiza Bawa-Garba stopped other
0:23:50 > 0:23:54staff performing CPR on Jack, mistakenly thinking that he was
0:23:54 > 0:23:57subject to a do not resuscitate order.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00For that and other failings, she and a nurse, Isabel Amaro,
0:24:00 > 0:24:02were eventually convicted of manslaughter by gross negligence
0:24:02 > 0:24:03at Nottingham Crown Court.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05They got suspended jail sentences and both were
0:24:05 > 0:24:09suspended from their posts.
0:24:09 > 0:24:11But Dr Bawa-Garba was given a second chance to practise
0:24:11 > 0:24:13as a paediatrician.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15The Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service found that there had
0:24:15 > 0:24:18been system problems as well as individual ones,
0:24:18 > 0:24:23and thought she should be kept on the medical register
0:24:23 > 0:24:26as she would not be a danger to patients.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29The General Medical Council disagrees with that and the issue
0:24:29 > 0:24:31is now about to be decided by the High Court.
0:24:31 > 0:24:38Should she be allowed to practise as a doctor or not?
0:24:38 > 0:24:41For the many who wrote to The Times, the case criminalises medical error
0:24:41 > 0:24:46and makes it far harder to learn from mistakes.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49With me are Jack's mother, Nicola Adcock, and Dr Jenny Vaughan,
0:24:49 > 0:24:50consultant neurologist from the campaign group
0:24:50 > 0:24:56Manslaughter and Healthcare.
0:24:56 > 0:25:01Good evening to you both. I will start with you, Nicola, what was
0:25:01 > 0:25:07your reaction when you heard about this letter from hundreds of medics.
0:25:07 > 0:25:12I was mortified, I was devastated. That all these doctors had got
0:25:12 > 0:25:15together and obviously supported the fact that she had been charged with
0:25:15 > 0:25:21gross negligence in a criminal court by a jury, it was a long... We were
0:25:21 > 0:25:26in court for four and a half weeks and I don't understand how a doctor
0:25:26 > 0:25:30could be charged with gross negligence and manslaughter and
0:25:30 > 0:25:36still be able to work. Where does it give the public any faith, any of
0:25:36 > 0:25:40the community any faith? I would like as most people watching, if
0:25:40 > 0:25:45they took their child to the hospital, and a doctor, who has been
0:25:45 > 0:25:48charged with gross negligence and manslaughter over the death of a
0:25:48 > 0:25:55child, a six and a half year old little boy, would they be happy that
0:25:55 > 0:25:57that Doctor is cheating -- treating that child? She should be struck off
0:25:57 > 0:26:02Micro. She got away with a two-year suspended sentence and now she has
0:26:02 > 0:26:07not even been struck off.And justice for Jack is a slogan because
0:26:07 > 0:26:12you're trying to collect signatures. All of these people who got
0:26:12 > 0:26:18together, they are doctors but they are parents as well.Does it make a
0:26:18 > 0:26:22difference that a lot of people have said, there was a lot going wrong at
0:26:22 > 0:26:27the hospital?I want a clear that up. I need to make sure that people
0:26:27 > 0:26:33understand this was not a system blunder, not a system error, this
0:26:33 > 0:26:37doctor was a trainee. I need to clarify that she was a level six
0:26:37 > 0:26:47registrar, she had lots of training, where she may stop was basic things,
0:26:47 > 0:26:49as in cold hand, cold feet, he had a heart condition, not flinching when
0:26:49 > 0:26:57they put the Dublin. I wrote down 20 things.We do not have nearly enough
0:26:57 > 0:27:03time. Would it make a difference if doctors could persuade you that we
0:27:03 > 0:27:11would save more lives... Rubbish. By learning from mistakes.If I was too
0:27:11 > 0:27:16quiet in my car and I was to run someone over, I would get charged
0:27:16 > 0:27:20with manslaughter. I would go to prison and I would lose my license.
0:27:20 > 0:27:25This was not a system blunder, this was more than 20 mistakes. I
0:27:25 > 0:27:29understand we are human beings and we make mistakes, one or two but not
0:27:29 > 0:27:34more than 20, it is not acceptable. She even mixed him up with another
0:27:34 > 0:27:38child at the end of the night. When asked how you mixed up a child with
0:27:38 > 0:27:44Down's syndrome with another child,, she said she got their parents mixed
0:27:44 > 0:27:52up.Thank you. Jenny, obviously this is a tragic case. What is the
0:27:52 > 0:27:56reason? You have heard the arguments, what is the case for
0:27:56 > 0:28:00saying you would employ this person as a doctor after a blunder like
0:28:00 > 0:28:05this?I have worked with many bereaved families and I really
0:28:05 > 0:28:10respect Nicola coming here, she has lost her child and I'm not in that
0:28:10 > 0:28:19position. Dr Bawa-Garba... The reason that it was felt... Their
0:28:19 > 0:28:24tribunal found that there were systems failure is. There were over
0:28:24 > 0:28:2970 systems failure is identified by the hospital. They were all enclosed
0:28:29 > 0:28:33in a serious incident report and the jury did not hear about all of those
0:28:33 > 0:28:39we talk about system failures we mean things going wrong on the day,
0:28:39 > 0:28:41hospital results, although normal ranges did not come through, there
0:28:41 > 0:28:46was a lack of a senior alert system, there were failures at every level,
0:28:46 > 0:28:53failure is on trainee supervision, lots of different failures.I think
0:28:53 > 0:28:58we see the geography of the argument about how you apportion blame. I am
0:28:58 > 0:29:02interested in the bigger picture, what is your worry about what
0:29:02 > 0:29:07happens to medical professionals if doctors are struck off for this kind
0:29:07 > 0:29:12of thing?It is sad. We are all on the same side. Doctors are on the
0:29:12 > 0:29:17same side as patience, what we want is a safe culture and the only way
0:29:17 > 0:29:23you really get a safe culture is no blame culture where people can be
0:29:23 > 0:29:25frank about their errors they made and they can discuss them and not
0:29:25 > 0:29:29feel challenged and they come out in the open and say I did this wrong,
0:29:29 > 0:29:33that is the only way you actually improve patient safety.You would
0:29:33 > 0:29:38agree that there are some errors that are too gross, that you would
0:29:38 > 0:29:46say, you are not fit for this job? Doctors get struck off for fraud. In
0:29:46 > 0:29:50this case, the tribunal heard all the evidence...They did find that
0:29:50 > 0:29:55there were protests errors on the day and they said it was the fact
0:29:55 > 0:30:02that she had redeemed herself...She has had honest failure and basically
0:30:02 > 0:30:06honest failure should not be rewarded with punishment or
0:30:06 > 0:30:10retribution. She has been suspended, she has had trial by media and a lot
0:30:10 > 0:30:18of things have happened.Would you let her look after your child?I
0:30:18 > 0:30:25absolutely would. Through all of this we are on the same side as
0:30:25 > 0:30:30patients. I would say, before all of this and after Jack died, she showed
0:30:30 > 0:30:36that she went on courses, she did show that she had insight into her
0:30:36 > 0:30:41errors and she expressed that. I would have no trouble in having her
0:30:41 > 0:30:44look after my child now because she has shown insight into those errors
0:30:44 > 0:30:48and that is that the whole profession. All of us need an open
0:30:48 > 0:30:52culture will become and express errors otherwise patient safety will
0:30:52 > 0:30:55not improve in the future.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08We should say that of course Dr Bawa-Garba hasn't herself been
0:31:08 > 0:31:11able to respond to any of what has said about her today.
0:31:11 > 0:31:13We did make contact with her earlier through her solicitor
0:31:13 > 0:31:15and she gave us a statement.
0:31:15 > 0:31:17She said, "No words will ever bring Jack back but I would
0:31:17 > 0:31:20like to apologise once again to his family for my clinical
0:31:20 > 0:31:21failings in his care.
0:31:21 > 0:31:24I think about this tragic case every day with regret and remorse,
0:31:24 > 0:31:27and if I could turn back time I would do things differently.
0:31:27 > 0:31:28My thoughts are with Jack's family."
0:31:28 > 0:31:31I know that you've never had... She's never shown remorse. She's
0:31:31 > 0:31:33never said sorry. As far as I'm concerned, she's got a heart of
0:31:33 > 0:31:36stone.And it would make a difference to you...?Not now. When
0:31:36 > 0:31:40we were in court there were nurses on the stand. Everybody that took
0:31:40 > 0:31:46that stand was so sorry and so remorseful. I mean, the nurse...
0:31:46 > 0:31:50Others have said she did have remorse.That's because they are
0:31:50 > 0:31:57doctors clubbing together again, aren't they?Last comment.I don't
0:31:57 > 0:32:00have any issue with any doctors and nurses out there. There are amazing
0:32:00 > 0:32:05doctors and nurses out there. This is just my thing about the one
0:32:05 > 0:32:09doctor that neglected my son that day. I don't want another family to
0:32:09 > 0:32:14go through this and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.We don't
0:32:14 > 0:32:18either, which is why we want everybody to have an open culture.
0:32:18 > 0:32:23We don't want this either.Thank you both very much.
0:32:23 > 0:32:25Time for Viewsnight now.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28This time last week we brought you one arguing that Donald Trump
0:32:28 > 0:32:29had changed America for the better.
0:32:29 > 0:32:31The President has had a busy week since then,
0:32:31 > 0:32:34packing in a diplomatic tweet row with Theresa May, getting his tax
0:32:34 > 0:32:36reform bill through Congress, and yesterday getting backing
0:32:36 > 0:32:38from the Supreme Court for his controversial travel ban.
0:32:38 > 0:32:43In the interests of balance, here's Brian Klass from the LSE,
0:32:43 > 0:32:47arguing that America's democracy may not survive this Presidency.
0:33:03 > 0:33:05We are fighting the fake news.
0:33:05 > 0:33:10It's fake, phoney, fake.
0:33:10 > 0:33:11Because you'd be in jail.
0:33:11 > 0:33:14Secretary Clinton...
0:35:10 > 0:35:13You may not find the conclusions very surprising, but according to
0:35:13 > 0:35:15the International Olympic Committee, Russia has been involved
0:35:15 > 0:35:16in systematic doping in sport.
0:35:16 > 0:35:18The IOC's disciplinary head Samuel Schmid said
0:35:18 > 0:35:20there is scientific evidence, there are witness statements,
0:35:20 > 0:35:23documents and correspondence, as well as the detailed testimony
0:35:23 > 0:35:26of a whistle-blower to prove it.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29As a result, the IOC have excluded Russia from the next Winter
0:35:29 > 0:35:31Olympics in February, though a few athletes will be able
0:35:31 > 0:35:34to compete under a neutral flag.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36Now, that is more draconian than anything in the Summer
0:35:36 > 0:35:38Olympics, when individual sports made their own decisions
0:35:38 > 0:35:42on Russian participation.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45I'm joined by Sir Craig Reedie - he's the president of
0:35:45 > 0:35:48the World Anti-Doping Agency, and in Berlin is the LSE visiting
0:35:48 > 0:35:58fellow Oksana Antonenko, whose research focuses on Russia.
0:35:58 > 0:36:05If I can start with you on the sports side, Sir Craig Reedie, it
0:36:05 > 0:36:08was remarkable what they were doing. Just give a sense of what we now
0:36:08 > 0:36:16know they were doing.It's been tonight's news from the commission
0:36:16 > 0:36:18and it corroborates what we've known for the last three or four years,
0:36:18 > 0:36:25that Russia had a systematic system of breaking the rules. Every
0:36:25 > 0:36:29positive test that came into the laboratory wasn't recorded in our
0:36:29 > 0:36:33recording system so we didn't have any positive tests. And then there
0:36:33 > 0:36:39was the cheating in Sochi.They have this thing with the hole in the war
0:36:39 > 0:36:46and the samples were passed through? -- hole in the wall.It's remarkable
0:36:46 > 0:36:51they went to that trouble, but in addition, if they had dirty samples,
0:36:51 > 0:36:54they knew they had to have clean samples to replace them, so there
0:36:54 > 0:37:02was a bank of clean samples to send in.Why has this taken so long to
0:37:02 > 0:37:05happen? Because many people have said it was obvious the Russians
0:37:05 > 0:37:15have been sophisticated in this department.If you look at the Sochi
0:37:15 > 0:37:21situation, we had a laboratory expert who worked conscientiously
0:37:21 > 0:37:25between eight in the morning and eight at nine, he didn't work
0:37:25 > 0:37:29between midnight and 4am, when the cheating went on, and I'm afraid
0:37:29 > 0:37:33most of the information that has come to us has come from
0:37:33 > 0:37:45whistle-blowers. -- eight in the morning and eight at night.One
0:37:45 > 0:37:55minister who has been banned from the future Games has been part of
0:37:55 > 0:38:02the World Cup, Fifa.But there is corporation that this went to the
0:38:02 > 0:38:04top of the ministry.What you think the reaction of ordinary Russians
0:38:04 > 0:38:11will be to this?I think most of the Russians and opinion polls agree
0:38:11 > 0:38:16that those who violate the doping should be punished and those who
0:38:16 > 0:38:21enable it should be punished as well. But today will be seen as a
0:38:21 > 0:38:25collective punishment, not the punishment of those who violated the
0:38:25 > 0:38:29rules but the punishment of the entire Russian nation. And I think
0:38:29 > 0:38:32as always in Russia, of course we know Russians are very proud people
0:38:32 > 0:38:37and proud of their sporting achievements, so that will produce a
0:38:37 > 0:38:43running around the flag effect and come the president -- presidential
0:38:43 > 0:38:46elections it will strengthen support for President Putin and the very
0:38:46 > 0:38:52system which enabled doping, and perhaps will create a less conducive
0:38:52 > 0:38:55environment to investigate properly what is -- what went on in Sochi and
0:38:55 > 0:39:00other Olympic competitions.So you think it benefits President Putin
0:39:00 > 0:39:03but they do accept there's a sort of justice that says you a
0:39:03 > 0:39:09discriminating punishment, and those who cheat get booted out and those
0:39:09 > 0:39:17who don't don't.Absolutely. At least among the opinion polls that
0:39:17 > 0:39:19you mention, the perception in society is that those who violate
0:39:19 > 0:39:24the rules should be punished, but it is also very important that it is
0:39:24 > 0:39:30seen as fair in terms of a process, in which the law of rule is followed
0:39:30 > 0:39:35-- the rule of law is followed, because otherwise it is being
0:39:35 > 0:39:41exploited, particularly through the state media and other sources of
0:39:41 > 0:39:45information, that this is discrimination against Russia.Is a
0:39:45 > 0:39:51blanket ban the right thing to do? Curling, for example, is their drug
0:39:51 > 0:39:59cheating in that? So banning that team is an indiscriminate band.
0:39:59 > 0:40:02There are two groups here. There are the so-called clean athletes in
0:40:02 > 0:40:08Russia who could come to the games provided they go through the
0:40:08 > 0:40:14necessary criteria so that they are as clean as we can make them. But
0:40:14 > 0:40:20there's another group who, since 2011 and 2015, have lost medals,
0:40:20 > 0:40:25championships because of a systemic doping system, so the world actually
0:40:25 > 0:40:29believes there has to be some sanction on Russia for organising
0:40:29 > 0:40:33that and the cheating on the clean athletes over the years. We will
0:40:33 > 0:40:37work hard to make sure proper controls are in place so that
0:40:37 > 0:40:50Russian athletes can take place in the Games in John Chiang.Nobody
0:40:50 > 0:40:59wants to create a situation that means more support for President
0:40:59 > 0:41:04Putin, but what do you do about systematic cheating in sport, the
0:41:04 > 0:41:09biggest that has ever occurred?I think it is important to distinguish
0:41:09 > 0:41:13between those who violated the rules and those who followed the
0:41:13 > 0:41:20procedure...But the state violated the rules. It was the system, the
0:41:20 > 0:41:26government. It wasn't just the odd team or team member.Absolutely. I
0:41:26 > 0:41:30think that has to be investigated very thoroughly and transparently
0:41:30 > 0:41:34but also you have to acknowledge a lot of Russian athletes who didn't
0:41:34 > 0:41:38violate the rules and to our clean athletes, and who are now under a
0:41:38 > 0:41:42lot of pressure it -- politically not to participate because they will
0:41:42 > 0:41:46not be participating under the Russian flag and they will face a
0:41:46 > 0:41:49lot of pressure internally at home not to do that.Thank you both very
0:41:49 > 0:41:54much.
0:41:54 > 0:41:55That's all for this evening.
0:41:55 > 0:41:58But before we go, do you ever find yourself cursing the air pollution
0:41:58 > 0:42:00that blights our towns and cities?
0:42:00 > 0:42:01Well, nothing's new.
0:42:01 > 0:42:0465 years ago today the great smog of London descended.
0:42:04 > 0:42:07And despite there being many times more cars these days,
0:42:07 > 0:42:09it's probably fair to say things have improved.
0:42:09 > 0:42:10Good night.
0:42:10 > 0:42:11HORNS BLARE.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15Evening paper!
0:42:15 > 0:42:20'...operate this evening.
0:42:20 > 0:42:21'And the following trains will be affected...'
0:42:21 > 0:42:24Are we doing all we can
0:42:24 > 0:42:26to minimise the dislocation caused by fog?
0:42:26 > 0:42:31Most of our efforts are remedial.
0:42:31 > 0:42:34In London, we still suffer damage that can be estimated
0:42:34 > 0:42:36in millions of pounds.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39The fault is largely our own.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41The fog is made worse by man.
0:42:41 > 0:42:47It is up to man to stop it.