0:00:07 > 0:00:11They all told him not to.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13The United Nations, the EU - even the Pope.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15In Gaza they reacted with anger.
0:00:15 > 0:00:23But Trump insists it's the right thing to do.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25I have determined that it is time to officially recognise Jerusalem
0:00:25 > 0:00:28as the capital of Israel.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31An ancient city at the heart of a centuries old conflict
0:00:31 > 0:00:33is thrust back into the spotlight as the Palestinians
0:00:33 > 0:00:36says it's deplorable.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39And the Turkish President warns Trump his decision could plunge
0:00:39 > 0:00:41the region back into a 'fire with no end'.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44We speak to the Israeli ambassador to the UK,
0:00:44 > 0:00:51and key voices from the region.
0:00:51 > 0:00:56Also tonight...
0:00:57 > 0:01:01This spoof fundraiser shows Africa donating radiators
0:01:01 > 0:01:05to help Norway stay warm...
0:01:05 > 0:01:08As UK celebrities run to the aid of Christmas charity causes -
0:01:08 > 0:01:10are we guilty of Poverty Porn?
0:01:10 > 0:01:17We'll ask whether these campaigns do more harm than good.
0:01:17 > 0:01:22And remember the rave days of the 1980s and 90s?
0:01:22 > 0:01:23Then you probably weren't there.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26Steve Smith was - constantly - and tonight he tries to remember
0:01:26 > 0:01:30Shoom with some of the big names from the scene.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32You're watching Newsnight, and a little later this evening,
0:01:32 > 0:01:34we're going to be talking about the history of dance music
0:01:34 > 0:01:36in the UK and around the world.
0:01:36 > 0:01:46It might just go a little bit Pete Tong.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48Good evening.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50What the Middle East needs now, said no one ever,
0:01:50 > 0:01:52is something to make the regions politics more complicated.
0:01:52 > 0:01:58America's President seems to have missed the memo.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00This evening, Donald Trump confirmed a campaign pledge: the recognition
0:02:00 > 0:02:03of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel - a symbolic statement
0:02:03 > 0:02:06fraught with practical implications.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09In a tightly scripted address he said he would build the US
0:02:09 > 0:02:11embassy in that city, insisting he was acting
0:02:11 > 0:02:14in the pursuit of peace between Israel and the Palestinians
0:02:14 > 0:02:16and that the US supported a two state solution
0:02:16 > 0:02:18if agreed by both sides.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21He was warmly thanked by Israel's Prime Minister.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26Fury from many on the other side.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28Tonight, we ask what the ramifications of this
0:02:28 > 0:02:29move are likely to be.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32But we start with this report by Gabriel Gatehouse.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42Jerusalem is many things to many people. A place that embodies the
0:02:42 > 0:02:46shared heritage of the world's great civilisations and a city whose
0:02:46 > 0:02:51ancient walls have long been an incubator for their festering
0:02:51 > 0:02:55divisions. Today, Donald Trump walked into this most treacherous of
0:02:55 > 0:02:59minefields, and pledged to shake things up...When I came into office
0:02:59 > 0:03:05I promised to look at the world's challenges. With open eyes, and very
0:03:05 > 0:03:14fresh thinking. We cannot solve our problems by making the same failed
0:03:14 > 0:03:19assumptions and repeating the same failed strategies of the past. When
0:03:19 > 0:03:21that his announcement was anticipated with foreboding in the
0:03:21 > 0:03:26Middle East but there were hints he may be aiming at an audience closer
0:03:26 > 0:03:32to home. Therefore I am determined that it is time to officially
0:03:32 > 0:03:40recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. While previous Presidents
0:03:40 > 0:03:49have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53Today, I am delivering.If Donald Trump's motivation was born in part
0:03:53 > 0:03:59out of the desire to deliver are on the pledges of 2016, then the
0:03:59 > 0:04:04ramifications on this reach further back in history. In 1948 when the
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Jewish state was born, Israel proclaimed Jerusalem its capital but
0:04:07 > 0:04:12on the ground, the city was divided into Western and Eastern sectors.
0:04:12 > 0:04:19Israel in control of the West, and Jordan the east, including the old
0:04:19 > 0:04:26city. In 1967, in six days, the same time it took the gold of the old
0:04:26 > 0:04:34Testament to create the world, Israel reach you the Middle East. --
0:04:34 > 0:04:36again true. Israel seized the eastern part of the city and
0:04:36 > 0:04:43expanded the city limits. The Palestinians want to see occupied
0:04:43 > 0:04:48territory become the future of an independent state. Today's
0:04:48 > 0:04:53announcement has, in fact, been a long time coming. In 1995 Congress
0:04:53 > 0:04:58passed an act requiring the US government to move it embassy from
0:04:58 > 0:05:03Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Since then, every six months every president has
0:05:03 > 0:05:07deferred that move on the grounds of national security but today,
0:05:07 > 0:05:11President Obama's successor promised to put an end to that.This is
0:05:11 > 0:05:16nothing more or less than a recognition of reality. It is also
0:05:16 > 0:05:23the right thing to do. It is something that has to be done.With
0:05:23 > 0:05:26that, at a stroke, and many diplomats fear that America's
0:05:26 > 0:05:33crucial role as a peace broker has been fatally undermined.Much of the
0:05:33 > 0:05:37statement will leave a sense of vacancy and many in Europe and
0:05:37 > 0:05:41across the Arab world will wonder where the process goes next, and
0:05:41 > 0:05:45whether America, particularly under President Trump, is committed to a
0:05:45 > 0:05:50genuine and fair to state solution. Donald Trump said that America was.
0:05:50 > 0:05:56The United States would support a two state solution. If agreed to by
0:05:56 > 0:06:01both sides.I think there was evidence that some of those
0:06:01 > 0:06:05diplomats, who have been trying to reduce the negative impact of this
0:06:05 > 0:06:09announcement, did get to work on that text.There was some
0:06:09 > 0:06:15reassurance for the Palestinians who want to return to pre-1967 borders.
0:06:15 > 0:06:21We are not taking a position of any final status issues. Including the
0:06:21 > 0:06:29specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the
0:06:29 > 0:06:34resolution of contested borders.But it does not really negate what is
0:06:34 > 0:06:37still a very dangerous announcement at a delicate time for the Middle
0:06:37 > 0:06:41East. The sad thing is, many of those extremists across the region
0:06:41 > 0:06:46will be the ones celebrating this in the morning.Donald Trump has sent
0:06:46 > 0:06:49his young son-in-law, Jared Kushner, to the middle east in search of what
0:06:49 > 0:06:57he calls the ultimate deal.We want an agreement that is a great deal
0:06:57 > 0:07:02for the Israelis and a great deal for the Palestinians.I would be the
0:07:02 > 0:07:06first one to celebrate if there is a superbly crafted strategy behind
0:07:06 > 0:07:10this announcement. But I won't be holding my breath. We hear a lot
0:07:10 > 0:07:14about Donald Trump being a great deal maker and certainly in his book
0:07:14 > 0:07:17he says you've got to hold back many of the strongest cards you got. It
0:07:17 > 0:07:23looks like he's played one of those cards a little too early.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25That was Gabriel Gatehouse.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28In a moment we will hear from the Israeli ambassador
0:07:28 > 0:07:29Mark Regev and the Palestinian academic Ghada Karmi.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32Although we're not expecting to resolve the regions issues
0:07:32 > 0:07:34here in the Newsnight studio - so they'll not be
0:07:34 > 0:07:35debating head to head.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39But first - our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban is here.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43What surprised you most about Donald Trump's announcement?I think that
0:07:43 > 0:07:47given there was that nod towards the two state solution and the statement
0:07:47 > 0:07:53from the president Duterte was not intended, the move today, to
0:07:53 > 0:07:59prejudice issues, it could go he could have acknowledged the idea to
0:07:59 > 0:08:03have the capital in East Jerusalem. It could have been something he did.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08It's been many years since the diplomatic game was about an
0:08:08 > 0:08:13international solution for Jerusalem, a zone to be ruled by the
0:08:13 > 0:08:16international community. For decades it has been about the two state
0:08:16 > 0:08:18solution and for everyone who has worked on that problem, every
0:08:18 > 0:08:23diplomat I have spoken to for 30 years on this knows that the
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Palestinian state without its capital in East Jerusalem is not a
0:08:26 > 0:08:30viable solution to the conflict.And what you make of those
0:08:30 > 0:08:34internationally showing support for the move?There have been one or
0:08:34 > 0:08:38two, interestingly, and going back to that point the Czech Republic,
0:08:38 > 0:08:41for example, today said that they would the American lead and move its
0:08:41 > 0:08:48embassy to Jerusalem. They also mentioned the Palestinian aspiration
0:08:48 > 0:08:53for a capital in East Jerusalem. The Philippines followed suit but by and
0:08:53 > 0:08:57large the reaction is negative. The UK said they will not move their
0:08:57 > 0:09:00embassy, many other European countries taking a similar tone will
0:09:00 > 0:09:05see if others join in with the Czech Republic and the Philippines in the
0:09:05 > 0:09:12coming days.Mark Urban, thank you. Let's pick up with our guests, let
0:09:12 > 0:09:16me start with Ghada Karmi, Donald Trump is right when he says the old
0:09:16 > 0:09:19way is broken and there's no point in repeating the same formula and
0:09:19 > 0:09:23you've got to reach out to new solutions?He isn't right can he
0:09:23 > 0:09:26does not know anything about it. What the Middle East does not need
0:09:26 > 0:09:35right now is a president like Donald Trump. The reality is the American
0:09:35 > 0:09:43president has endorsed an illegal situation. Israel is in illegal
0:09:43 > 0:09:48occupation of Arab Jerusalem, and its sovereignty over West Jerusalem
0:09:48 > 0:09:51is not recognised by the international community. That is a
0:09:51 > 0:09:57legal fact. Now, Donald Trump has chosen to violate international law
0:09:57 > 0:10:05by endorsing something very illegal, which is Israeli controlled
0:10:05 > 0:10:09sovereignty over Jerusalem, calling itself the capital, this kind of
0:10:09 > 0:10:14thing. This is very bad.When he says he is deeply committed to
0:10:14 > 0:10:19peace, when he says that this is nothing more than a recognition of
0:10:19 > 0:10:25reality, do you not have faith that this is the first step of what could
0:10:25 > 0:10:30be a solution?No, of course not! First of all, it does not
0:10:30 > 0:10:38acknowledge that the Palestinians have any rights. I noticed your
0:10:38 > 0:10:41commentator Mark Urban talking about aspiration. Palestinians have a
0:10:41 > 0:10:46right to the city. I was born in Giroud Slim and an part of the
0:10:46 > 0:10:52indigenous people of Jerusalem. I am a native of Jerusalem. -- I was born
0:10:52 > 0:10:58in Jerusalem. The fact that the United States president cannot bring
0:10:58 > 0:11:01himself to mention Palestinian rights in the city is appalling.
0:11:01 > 0:11:07That's the first problem. The second problem is we know that Donald Trump
0:11:07 > 0:11:14is not a free agent. He is surrounded by pro-Israel advisers,
0:11:14 > 0:11:17pro Israel officials...To be fair the American stance towards Israel
0:11:17 > 0:11:21has not differed particularly from one president to another.No,
0:11:21 > 0:11:27because it has always been dictated by Israeli interests.So he cannot
0:11:27 > 0:11:32broker peace, or America cannot broker peace?Of course not, he is
0:11:32 > 0:11:40compromised. He is surrounded by pro Israel began discuss -- propaganda,
0:11:40 > 0:11:44and he cannot operate as a free agent, even if he had the will to do
0:11:44 > 0:11:49it.I want to talk about the practicalities now. He said he is
0:11:49 > 0:11:53calling on both sides to respect the status quo. How should Mahmoud
0:11:53 > 0:11:56Abbasi respond and how should young Palestinian men respond if they feel
0:11:56 > 0:12:02upset by what they have heard tonight? -- Mahmood Abbas. Should
0:12:02 > 0:12:07they legitimately protest or work towards the two state solution he
0:12:07 > 0:12:12talked about?There's no two state solution to talk about, if they have
0:12:12 > 0:12:19gone out of the equation, I don't know how they should but I know how
0:12:19 > 0:12:23they feel. They will protest, they are angry and they have every right
0:12:23 > 0:12:28to be angry. What is dangerous about this, because it's bad enough that
0:12:28 > 0:12:35it is illegal, it is bad enough that Trump is influenced by all kinds of
0:12:35 > 0:12:39people...I'm talking about the practicalities. Do the moderates
0:12:39 > 0:12:45just give up?Listen, it isn't about moderates, please let me be clear.
0:12:45 > 0:12:50This is about a whole people who have rights in that city. Of course
0:12:50 > 0:12:55they are angry. Of course they will protest. Nobody should be surprised.
0:12:55 > 0:13:03Why I think this is so dangerous, is because one of the first things that
0:13:03 > 0:13:07might happen, and watch for this, is that Israel would be emboldened to
0:13:07 > 0:13:14take over the Islamic holy places, it has had its eye on the mosque in
0:13:14 > 0:13:18the city for a long time. If they take it over now with a lot of new
0:13:18 > 0:13:27self-confidence, watch what happens. Let me put some of those points
0:13:27 > 0:13:38over to Mark Regev. Thank you. Piece in this area. Is it a joke?This was
0:13:38 > 0:13:45a just move for peace. Because there is an international norm. Everybody
0:13:45 > 0:13:54respects it.A norm? The EU doesn't, the Pope doesn't...Let me make my
0:13:54 > 0:13:59point, there is a norm that it has respected every country's right to
0:13:59 > 0:14:02choose their capital. The sovereign right of every country on the
0:14:02 > 0:14:07planet. There are countries, as you know, Emily, who have changed their
0:14:07 > 0:14:14capital cities.Turkey, China... You know how provocative the move is.
0:14:14 > 0:14:19Why are we denied the right to choose our own capital city? A right
0:14:19 > 0:14:22every country on this planet has.So you can call it what you want, the
0:14:22 > 0:14:26Palestinians can call it what they want. My question is, from what you
0:14:26 > 0:14:31have seen so far Donald Trump, what makes you think that he is a classy
0:14:31 > 0:14:35peace broker? What makes you think that he is committed to solving the
0:14:35 > 0:14:39world's crisis, that he has a firm grip on international relations? Do
0:14:39 > 0:14:49you
0:14:52 > 0:14:55want to tie your country's future to him as a peace broker?I would urge
0:14:55 > 0:14:57you to look at this decision on the substance. The substance is
0:14:57 > 0:15:00positive.He says he is committed to a two state solution and a peace
0:15:00 > 0:15:02process and he's done that by deeply offending and inflaming relations in
0:15:02 > 0:15:05that part of the world.Let's stop for a moment. The Palestinians and
0:15:05 > 0:15:07the Arab world say that they recognise Israel within the 1967
0:15:07 > 0:15:13boundaries and so we all know that Jerusalem has been the capital of
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Israel since 1949. Why is there a problem with recognising Jerusalem
0:15:17 > 0:15:21as the capital of Israel?It is extraordinary that you put that
0:15:21 > 0:15:26question to me. You know this area, you know the complexities inside
0:15:26 > 0:15:30out. You have a responsibility, don't you, to tell him that he is
0:15:30 > 0:15:34wrong? Don't you think it would be more important to not look at the
0:15:34 > 0:15:38short term gains and to get the longer term peace process right?We
0:15:38 > 0:15:44all have a responsibility to get it right and what is the fact? That the
0:15:44 > 0:15:51Israeli government sit in Giroud Jerusalem, and when foreign leaders
0:15:51 > 0:15:55sit there, they come to Jerusalem. When foreign diplomats meet with
0:15:55 > 0:15:59their counterparts, they come to Jerusalem.You do not acknowledge
0:15:59 > 0:16:04how much offence it has caused to Palestinian residents. Now, you
0:16:04 > 0:16:13heard what our guest just said, that it would embolden Israelis to forget
0:16:13 > 0:16:18the sanctity of the mosque and all of that. This is where you think
0:16:18 > 0:16:23Israel can claim whatever it wants.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27My Prime Minister said just two hours ago that we will maintain the
0:16:27 > 0:16:33holy sites and continued to keep the status quo and the religious rights
0:16:33 > 0:16:38of all people. You need to do more than that. It is about respecting
0:16:38 > 0:16:42people who call that their home and assert their claim to it. So what is
0:16:42 > 0:16:48the olive branch now that the Israeli government has to offer to
0:16:48 > 0:16:52Palestinians to recognise that this is something they do not consider
0:16:52 > 0:16:58fair?Let's be clear what's fair, and legal. You cannot have peace
0:16:58 > 0:17:03without Jerusalem being Israel's capital, and those on the
0:17:03 > 0:17:06Palestinian side you have these dangerous fantasies that somehow we
0:17:06 > 0:17:11are going to throw all of the dues out of Jerusalem, that is a
0:17:11 > 0:17:16nonstarter. President Trump has drawn a line in the sand today to
0:17:16 > 0:17:21say that it is time for the Palestinians to recognise that the
0:17:21 > 0:17:30Jewish people have rights to their capital city, and it is good for
0:17:30 > 0:17:35peace.Congressmen Lee Zeldin is Republican member of the Foreign
0:17:35 > 0:17:45Affairs Committee in the US.
0:17:45 > 0:17:46and Co-Chairman of the House Republican
0:17:46 > 0:17:47Israel Caucus.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49Ilnur Cevik is chief advisor to the Turkish President,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
0:17:52 > 0:17:57The onus is now on the Palestinians, according to Mark Trevor Grills, to
0:17:57 > 0:18:06move on and accept the peace. -- Mark Regev. What do you say to that?
0:18:06 > 0:18:11If you do not extend an olive branch to the Palestinians, what can you
0:18:11 > 0:18:16ask from them? What can you expect from them? It's a very hard thing to
0:18:16 > 0:18:23turn to these people and say, Jerusalem is the capital, finished.
0:18:23 > 0:18:34Now, if they had said, fine, West Jerusalem, we have the capital of
0:18:34 > 0:18:39Israel, the Palestinians have a right for east Jerusalem to be their
0:18:39 > 0:18:44capital.So as a key player in the region, what does Turkey do now? How
0:18:44 > 0:18:54do you face this new reality?Well, Turkey is frustrated, deeply
0:18:54 > 0:19:02frustrated, because Turkey feels that while it wants to maintain
0:19:02 > 0:19:08relations with Israel, for the sake of the Palestinians, it is becoming
0:19:08 > 0:19:12harder and harder for Turkey to maintain a kind of plausible
0:19:12 > 0:19:19relationship with Israel. The Turkish president has already said,
0:19:19 > 0:19:25we may even sever ties.Do you think that will happen now?Turkey may
0:19:25 > 0:19:30downgrade its relations. I don't know. It depends how the situation
0:19:30 > 0:19:36develops.Would you be as bold with your relations with the US now?
0:19:36 > 0:19:44Well, Turkey has already announced that it rejects the US decision. The
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Turkish parliament, for the first time, all the parties have come
0:19:47 > 0:19:52together, the Kurds and the left wing, everybody, for the first time
0:19:52 > 0:19:57in nearly ten years, they have come together to denounce the American
0:19:57 > 0:20:03decision, and this shows it's not only Recep Tayyip Erdogan, but its
0:20:03 > 0:20:12across-the-board, all parties, who are hugely against the Turkish
0:20:12 > 0:20:14government, the opposition, have come together to reject this
0:20:14 > 0:20:19decision.You heard the voice in our film earlier saying that this is a
0:20:19 > 0:20:26victory for extremists, who can ride roughshod over moderate views now
0:20:26 > 0:20:31and say, we have to respond to this in the only way we see fit. What do
0:20:31 > 0:20:37you have to do, as a key player in the region, to make sure it doesn't
0:20:37 > 0:20:44inflame? By severing relations, you are ducking out, right?The Turkish
0:20:44 > 0:20:51president has said that this is one of the options. He didn't say it was
0:20:51 > 0:20:56going to happen.You are his chief adviser. What will you be advising
0:20:56 > 0:21:01him tonight?Our advice will be that we need a kind of leveraged on
0:21:01 > 0:21:06Israel. Some form of leveraged is needed there. However, the
0:21:06 > 0:21:15Palestinians have a right, and when you do not answer to the demands of
0:21:15 > 0:21:21moderate Palestinians who want peace, who want just their rights,
0:21:21 > 0:21:27who won Jerusalem, who have been born in Jerusalem, to say, this is
0:21:27 > 0:21:32my home. If they are denied those rights, we are all playing into the
0:21:32 > 0:21:36hands of those radicals.Ilnur Cevik, thank you for coming in.
0:21:36 > 0:21:42Let's pick up now with Lee Zeldin, member of the Republican Foreign
0:21:42 > 0:21:47Affairs Committee. You have the Pope against you, the UN, the EU, and
0:21:47 > 0:21:51most countries. Do you have any qualms about what your president has
0:21:51 > 0:21:58done tonight?I strongly support the President's decision. It is a fact
0:21:58 > 0:22:05that the capital of Israel is Jerusalem. This is where the Israeli
0:22:05 > 0:22:10Knesset is located. The offices and homes of the Israeli Prime Minister
0:22:10 > 0:22:15and president, the Supreme Court... We need to all be honest with each
0:22:15 > 0:22:20other. The fact is that the capital of Israel is Jerusalem.The draft
0:22:20 > 0:22:27the core niceties seem to overlook what a precarious position this has
0:22:27 > 0:22:33put Israel and the Palestinians in this evening.Well, I would say what
0:22:33 > 0:22:39really complicates things the most is when you have Palestinian
0:22:39 > 0:22:44terrorists murdering innocent Israelis. Just yesterday, the house
0:22:44 > 0:22:48of Representatives passed a Taylor Force act. Taylor force was a
0:22:48 > 0:22:53graduate of the United States military Academy of West point who
0:22:53 > 0:23:00was brutally murdered by Palestinian terrorists.And you think this will
0:23:00 > 0:23:03help?I think it is a huge issue that needs to be addressed. On the
0:23:03 > 0:23:10one side you have a party trying to promote peace, and on the other, you
0:23:10 > 0:23:14are treating terrorists as heads of state and financially rewarding
0:23:14 > 0:23:18terrorism.You have a president who tries to ban Muslims of certain
0:23:18 > 0:23:23countries even coming into the US. Do you think he has the right man to
0:23:23 > 0:23:29broker peace in Israel, in the Middle East?Pieces going to be
0:23:29 > 0:23:34negotiated on the ground, regardless of who the president is at any time.
0:23:34 > 0:23:40It's going to be important that whoever is in charge of Israel, or
0:23:40 > 0:23:45the Palestinian authority, that they have the ability to negotiate peace.
0:23:45 > 0:23:51That has been won over course of generations, not just years and
0:23:51 > 0:23:56decades, but it has been elusive. I don't know if any single person
0:23:56 > 0:24:01outside of Israel and that region are capable of doing this for them.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04It really needs to be done on the ground.So maybe he should have
0:24:04 > 0:24:10stayed out of it? One of our guests just called President Trump a know
0:24:10 > 0:24:19nothing American.Again, the capital of Israel is Jerusalem. I'm not
0:24:19 > 0:24:22questioning that the Palestinian authority is headquartered in
0:24:22 > 0:24:27Romana. I have been there and met with the Prime Minister of the
0:24:27 > 0:24:31Palestinian authority. I don't question that that is where they are
0:24:31 > 0:24:37headquartered at. There's a certain realities here. The Prime Minister
0:24:37 > 0:24:42said to my face that he would not recognise Israel as a Jewish state.
0:24:42 > 0:24:48You also have to considered the fact that if the Palestinian authority
0:24:48 > 0:24:52leadership was in good faith negotiating a deal, let's say people
0:24:52 > 0:24:58are sitting down in 2018, there is an element in the Palestinian
0:24:58 > 0:25:04authority, Hamas, who will not rest until Israel is wiped off the map.
0:25:04 > 0:25:08Thank you for joining us.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11Theresa May found a new form a words today which may soon be
0:25:11 > 0:25:13adopted by school children and the work-shy world over.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15When asked about Monday's attempted Brexit deal on Northern Ireland
0:25:15 > 0:25:18she merely claimed 'very good progress has been made'.
0:25:18 > 0:25:20It sounded a bit hollow in the House of Commons -
0:25:20 > 0:25:21and was met with laughter.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23Tonight, however, there were some positive sounds coming
0:25:23 > 0:25:29from the Irish Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar.
0:25:29 > 0:25:34I agreed to examine any text that they put forward in a positive
0:25:34 > 0:25:38light, understanding that it is within the interests of our country
0:25:38 > 0:25:43to move to phase two. Those things are important to Ireland, and I want
0:25:43 > 0:25:46to get back to the point where we have good relations with the UK
0:25:46 > 0:25:50again. I would look at any text with an open mind and a positive outlook,
0:25:50 > 0:25:54but I emphasise the fact that when it comes to the substance and
0:25:54 > 0:26:01meaning of what was agreed on Monday, I can't depart from that.
0:26:01 > 0:26:06Our political editor, Nick Watt, is here. How will those words be
0:26:06 > 0:26:11greeted in Downing Street?He says, I'm open to new wording, but it must
0:26:11 > 0:26:16be in addition to the current wording. Theresa May wants to avoid
0:26:16 > 0:26:22what happened at the weekend when the DUP were not shown the wording.
0:26:22 > 0:26:28She is consulting on the text and she is talking to Sinn Fein. But she
0:26:28 > 0:26:34has a very difficult balancing act. She has to win back the DUP, but not
0:26:34 > 0:26:39in a way that Sinn Fein tumble out of the equation. It is very
0:26:39 > 0:26:43difficult. A DUP source said this evening that the wording is toxic
0:26:43 > 0:26:48and has to go. Another DUP source said they did not like the wording
0:26:48 > 0:26:52and could just about envisage a situation where the existing wording
0:26:52 > 0:27:00stays, but the new wording would have to be dramatically in their
0:27:00 > 0:27:03favour for that to happen. Plus, Michel Barnier has said,
0:27:03 > 0:27:08effectively, that there is 48 hours to sort this out.And intervention
0:27:08 > 0:27:13on Philip Hammond as well.He told the Treasury Select Committee that
0:27:13 > 0:27:18it would be inconceivable for the UK not to pay its financial settlement
0:27:18 > 0:27:23of the UK, even if we don't have a deal. Downing Street came out a few
0:27:23 > 0:27:28hours later and said, I think not. They said the offer from the UK was
0:27:28 > 0:27:33contingent on getting that future trade relationship. A few hours
0:27:33 > 0:27:37earlier, David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, confirmed that the
0:27:37 > 0:27:44government hadn't carried out a formal impact assessment of the
0:27:44 > 0:27:48consequences of Brexit, and that was enough to ensure that the Brexit
0:27:48 > 0:27:53Select Committee, voting on party lines, voted, but it is in not in
0:27:53 > 0:27:57contempt of Parliament.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59Every since Band Aid - the charity single put together
0:27:59 > 0:28:02by a host of A-list musicians back in 1984, we've got used
0:28:02 > 0:28:04to the idea of celebrities rallying around to solve world poverty.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06This Christmas will be no different -
0:28:06 > 0:28:09Ed Sheeran, Tom Hardy, and Eddie Redmayne are all starring
0:28:09 > 0:28:11in adverts aimed at raising money for humanitarian crises -
0:28:11 > 0:28:13child malnutrition, famine, the war in Yemen.
0:28:13 > 0:28:14Their intentions are beyond reproach.
0:28:14 > 0:28:16They raise awareness and often millions of pounds.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18But there is a growing unease at the signals
0:28:18 > 0:28:21these videos send out - labelled "Poverty Porn"
0:28:21 > 0:28:22by their critics.
0:28:22 > 0:28:25One group of activists got so annoyed by the campaigns
0:28:25 > 0:28:30they launched their own response - and award for the worst.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54It's Africa's turn to help, croon the singers in this spoof video.
0:28:54 > 0:28:57The group tell of a need to highlight the plight of poor
0:28:57 > 0:29:00Norwegians, by bringing them radiators in winter,
0:29:00 > 0:29:06raising awareness of their suffering in the cold.
0:29:08 > 0:29:10It's the work of a Norwegian campaign group, who tomorrow
0:29:10 > 0:29:17will launch an award for the worst charity video of the year.
0:29:19 > 0:29:22I'm a father, and I know that many of our children in the UK
0:29:22 > 0:29:25are looking forward to holidays and presents right now.
0:29:25 > 0:29:27These children live in a far-off country...
0:29:27 > 0:29:28They're so tiny.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30They're so tiny.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33You do see them in the day, and they're kids...
0:29:33 > 0:29:35On the list, three British celebrities, Tom Hardy,
0:29:35 > 0:29:37Ed Sheeran and Eddie Redmayne.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40These images are devastating.
0:29:40 > 0:29:43We had hoped to never see this again...
0:29:43 > 0:29:45Their campaign featured the desperate plight of starving
0:29:45 > 0:29:47and homeless children, the kind of heartbreaking images
0:29:47 > 0:29:49that have long proved successful when it comes
0:29:49 > 0:29:53to shocking people into giving.
0:29:53 > 0:29:57A simple step from us here can save lives there.
0:29:57 > 0:30:01The DEC's Yemen appeal raised £26 million.
0:30:01 > 0:30:05The East Africa one raised more than £16 million.
0:30:05 > 0:30:09Valuable sums that have helped enormously in the short term.
0:30:09 > 0:30:15# Do they know it's Christmas time at all?
0:30:15 > 0:30:17It all began here, of course, in 1984.
0:30:17 > 0:30:19# Feed the world...#
0:30:19 > 0:30:21The nearly all-white choir of Band Aid raised
0:30:21 > 0:30:24millions using a fine roster of celebrities.
0:30:24 > 0:30:27The campaign was astonishingly successful as a fundraiser,
0:30:27 > 0:30:32and as a concept, emulated consistently over the years since.
0:30:32 > 0:30:36Despite widespread agreement amongst NGOs in 2007,
0:30:36 > 0:30:40the re-emergence of poverty porn is causing concern.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43It cements a narrative of us and them, of the
0:30:43 > 0:30:47patrons and the victims.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49When you say context, it is that they have to offer
0:30:49 > 0:30:51something more than some stereotypes and simplifications.
0:30:51 > 0:30:54They have to show the location.
0:30:54 > 0:30:56They have to give a voice to the local population,
0:30:56 > 0:31:00and also to highlight the structural, underlying
0:31:00 > 0:31:03issues, for example, what are the causes for poverty?
0:31:03 > 0:31:06And not just the simplified solution or a quick fix to something
0:31:06 > 0:31:10that has deeper roots.
0:31:10 > 0:31:16MUSIC: You're My Best Friend by Queen.
0:31:16 > 0:31:21They prefer this sort of thing - the hope and optimism of Batman.
0:31:21 > 0:31:23# Whatever this world can give to me...
0:31:23 > 0:31:26But are we becoming oversensitive?
0:31:26 > 0:31:30Isn't it better to try and occasionally get things wrong,
0:31:30 > 0:31:35as long as the intentions are good and the money rolls in?
0:31:37 > 0:31:41With me now is Afua Hirsch - a journalist who called for an end
0:31:41 > 0:31:43to 'poverty porn' in a Guardian piece this week -
0:31:43 > 0:31:46and Mark Goldring, he's a trustee of the emergency fundraising group,
0:31:46 > 0:31:47the Disasters Emergency Committee.
0:31:47 > 0:31:52He's also chief executive of Oxfam.
0:31:52 > 0:31:57It's very nice to have you both here. For all of your reservations,
0:31:57 > 0:32:03this works, this raises money, and it saves lives, why would you and
0:32:03 > 0:32:07pick it, Afua?It depends on what you are trying to achieve, we all
0:32:07 > 0:32:11agree that it's important to raise awareness of humanitarian crises,
0:32:11 > 0:32:15I'm not suggesting we should be apathetic or stage some kind of
0:32:15 > 0:32:18intervention but it's a short-term solution. I know it works and shocks
0:32:18 > 0:32:22people and gets people to give money in the short term but in the
0:32:22 > 0:32:32long-term the message it sends is that these people not equal, they
0:32:32 > 0:32:35are others, they do not deserve the same dignity. We would never show a
0:32:35 > 0:32:37British child in that state of nakedness. We are not protecting
0:32:37 > 0:32:39their basic dignity. We are creating a belief with deep historical roots
0:32:39 > 0:32:43that these people are not agents of their own lives, we should pity them
0:32:43 > 0:32:46and at best we can offer them charity in their hopeless future.
0:32:46 > 0:32:54That is not true.I wonder if you have a sense of this, that there is
0:32:54 > 0:32:58a division that these kinds of adverts create?If these adverts are
0:32:58 > 0:33:03the main ways that we portray the developing world, it would not be
0:33:03 > 0:33:06right but the picture is much more complicated. What we are doing is
0:33:06 > 0:33:15challenging the issues that lie behind that poverty. So, we told
0:33:15 > 0:33:19positive stories about Bangladesh, and the situation in Myanmar, but
0:33:19 > 0:33:22there are nearly 1 million people crossing the border and we have to
0:33:22 > 0:33:27get aid to them today. In the same way, Oxfam has been challenging our
0:33:27 > 0:33:31own government for years on our policy in Yemen, challenging the
0:33:31 > 0:33:36Saudis and arms sales. We are saying that we also need practical help.
0:33:36 > 0:33:43There is a lot in what Afua says about how these images come across.
0:33:43 > 0:33:48The problem is, as soon as you have a spoof like the Norwegian one, and
0:33:48 > 0:33:52people laugh, it almost releases you from obligation. As soon as you are
0:33:52 > 0:33:58in that position you go, I don't want to be that person and endorse
0:33:58 > 0:34:07that narrative.We've seen this in campaigns, since Band Aid, it works
0:34:07 > 0:34:11as a one-off shock tactic but then people become desensitised. Once you
0:34:11 > 0:34:14see those images of babies with flies in their eyes you lose
0:34:14 > 0:34:18empathy. It's a very tired formula and allows people to disengage
0:34:18 > 0:34:22because ultimately they do not see these people as humans...Is that
0:34:22 > 0:34:28right? You run many different kinds of campaigns.And we communicate on
0:34:28 > 0:34:34complicated issues all the time. We recently put out a film on taxation
0:34:34 > 0:34:38and tax dodging. We put weeks into crafting that film. The average
0:34:38 > 0:34:42viewer watches it for about ten seconds. What is happening with an
0:34:42 > 0:34:45emergency appeal is that broadcasters are putting something
0:34:45 > 0:34:51together literally in hours and they want to command attention.So you
0:34:51 > 0:34:55have ten seconds?If the item it is you don't have enough time to offer
0:34:55 > 0:34:59someone basic dignity and respect... I'm not saying that, I think there
0:34:59 > 0:35:03is a difference between the images and the overall effect. We are not
0:35:03 > 0:35:09right to blame celebrities for that. We need to look at the way we edit.
0:35:09 > 0:35:13As an organisation, Oxfam, and many like us, have strict guidelines on
0:35:13 > 0:35:18using those kinds of images and there are too many of them. There's
0:35:18 > 0:35:22also a sense that there is an emergency and we need to respond now
0:35:22 > 0:35:28and that urgency needs to come through.We need context and to
0:35:28 > 0:35:31protect the dignity of people we are dealing with, they need the same
0:35:31 > 0:35:37rights and treatments that we do.To both of you, thank you.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39Who can say exactly how a cultural phenomenon gets started,
0:35:39 > 0:35:42but the Acid House phenomenon in the late 1980s undoubtedly owed
0:35:42 > 0:35:46a good deal to a group of DJs who were inspired by what they saw
0:35:46 > 0:35:47on the party island of Ibiza.
0:35:47 > 0:35:49One of them was Danny Rampling, whose legendary club
0:35:49 > 0:35:52night in South London - Shoom - celebrates its 30th
0:35:52 > 0:35:53anniversary this week.
0:35:53 > 0:35:55It helped to give rise to dance culture and all that it
0:35:55 > 0:35:57entailed: the super club, tabloid controversy over ecstasy,
0:35:57 > 0:36:00and the ubiquity of the 'smiley face' emoji, that our parents always
0:36:00 > 0:36:02believed was just a, well, smily face.
0:36:02 > 0:36:09We sent Stephen Smith to find out: whatever happened to Acid House?
0:36:09 > 0:36:10# Just a moment
0:36:10 > 0:36:12# Please remain in your seats
0:36:12 > 0:36:17# Please remain in your seats...
0:36:17 > 0:36:19Many people said it was like their church.
0:36:19 > 0:36:29It was their new religion.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34I could immediately see that this was going to be huge.
0:36:34 > 0:36:36I was already imagining that, in a year or two, this
0:36:36 > 0:36:38was going to be big over the world.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40# Well, I need your love
0:36:40 > 0:36:41# I need your love...
0:36:41 > 0:36:4430 years ago, might you have been making shapes amid the dry ice
0:36:44 > 0:36:47and smoke of a gym in a south London basement?
0:36:47 > 0:36:50That's where DJ Danny Rampling put a very British spin
0:36:50 > 0:36:53on the easy-going, inclusive vibe he'd found in the clubs of Ibiza.
0:36:53 > 0:36:54After you, Danny.
0:36:54 > 0:36:56Today, Newsnight's taking Rampling back to his old haunt.
0:36:56 > 0:36:57It's been a few years!
0:36:57 > 0:36:59It's now available to rent, if you're interested.
0:36:59 > 0:37:05Is this very familiar?
0:37:05 > 0:37:06No!
0:37:06 > 0:37:07Not at all?
0:37:07 > 0:37:09The entrance was around the back.
0:37:09 > 0:37:15He hasn't been back here since the club changed premises in 1989.
0:37:15 > 0:37:28I could immediately see that this was going to be huge.
0:37:34 > 0:37:35So here we are.
0:37:35 > 0:37:36Yes, here we are.
0:37:36 > 0:37:38It didn't look like this back then.
0:37:38 > 0:37:39How did it look?
0:37:39 > 0:37:40Er...
0:37:40 > 0:37:42It certainly didn't feel as big as this as well,
0:37:42 > 0:37:45because there were some changing rooms in here, an office,
0:37:45 > 0:37:47and then a gym area at the back.
0:37:47 > 0:37:48This area here was the main dance area.
0:37:48 > 0:37:49Here?
0:37:49 > 0:37:51Yeah, all this area here.
0:37:51 > 0:37:53It it looks a little bit trampled down, doesn't it?
0:37:53 > 0:37:55Where did you have your DJ console?
0:37:55 > 0:37:58It was on this side of the room, so I'd be here with a torch
0:37:58 > 0:38:01in my mouth, because it was quite dark down here at times,
0:38:01 > 0:38:03so I could see the vinyl.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05Waving records around and jumping around and shouting!
0:38:05 > 0:38:06# Hey!
0:38:06 > 0:38:07Britain had gone through the Falklands War.
0:38:07 > 0:38:10It had gone through the rising interest rates, and it had gone
0:38:10 > 0:38:12through such high unemployment as well at the same time.
0:38:12 > 0:38:14So opportunities, particularly in working-class culture, were limited.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16They were pretty limited.
0:38:16 > 0:38:25And this came along as a reaction to that period as well.
0:38:26 > 0:38:28Remind us who passed through here?
0:38:28 > 0:38:29Gosh, there's so many.
0:38:29 > 0:38:30Boy George was a regular here.
0:38:30 > 0:38:32Martin Fry and Mark White of ABC.
0:38:32 > 0:38:33Dexy's Midnight Runners, Kevin Rowland, Genesis P-Orridge,
0:38:33 > 0:38:35Leigh Bowery came down at one time.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38There was one time, he walked in down these stairs with his famous
0:38:38 > 0:38:41look with the light bulbs on, and the security guy, Eric,
0:38:41 > 0:38:50said "Light bulb chops is here."
0:38:50 > 0:38:51My brother said, "It's £5.
0:38:51 > 0:38:53There is no guest list in here."
0:38:53 > 0:39:03He said, "Darling, I don't pay to get in anywhere!"
0:39:03 > 0:39:06You might never know it to look at it, but to many this is one
0:39:06 > 0:39:08of the most story doors in music history.
0:39:08 > 0:39:11Within a few weeks of Shoom opening 30 years ago,
0:39:11 > 0:39:13people were queueing right down this street in the wee small hours
0:39:13 > 0:39:23to join in the scene and the fun.
0:39:23 > 0:39:24# Acid, man
0:39:24 > 0:39:26# Acid, man...
0:39:26 > 0:39:29Of course, the smiley face was a 60s symbol that they put
0:39:29 > 0:39:32on the third Shoom flyer, I think it was, and caught the moment.
0:39:32 > 0:39:36They had happy, happy, happy banners up in the Shoom, in the corridor.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39And it was very much like a family vibe that they had,
0:39:39 > 0:39:41and that's part of the reason that it caught the
0:39:41 > 0:39:45imagination of people.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48Time Out magazine's former nightlife editor has been in more clubs
0:39:48 > 0:39:50than you can shake a glow stick at.
0:39:50 > 0:39:55He captured the impact of Shoom from the get-go.
0:39:55 > 0:39:58Obviously, there was already a great one nighter club scene in London,
0:39:58 > 0:40:01Manchester and elsewhere, but this shifted the balance.
0:40:01 > 0:40:07It was a quantum leap into the mainstream.
0:40:07 > 0:40:13# Everybody's free...
0:40:13 > 0:40:16The 90s brought a boom and easy credit, and the alumni at clubs
0:40:16 > 0:40:18like Shoom began developing a multi million pound leisure
0:40:18 > 0:40:25industry around super clubs and high-profile DJs.
0:40:25 > 0:40:28Dance music has infiltrated the pop tracks for a good few years now.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32You know, your DJs are not these nameless, faceless guys
0:40:32 > 0:40:36in the corner of clubs.
0:40:36 > 0:40:39They are people who have Vegas residencies, whose heads take up
0:40:39 > 0:40:42eight floors of a hotel building in terms of ad space.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45The DJs are huge, and the culture around it is huge.
0:40:45 > 0:40:48Vegas wouldn't put these people on if they didn't make them millions
0:40:48 > 0:40:53upon millions of dollars.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55But what's this?
0:40:55 > 0:40:58Woodwind and strings on club anthems?
0:40:58 > 0:41:00It's the work of ageless turntablist Pete Tong
0:41:00 > 0:41:02and the Heritage Orchestra.
0:41:02 > 0:41:06It's very popular, but is this dance coming of age, or just ageing?
0:41:06 > 0:41:11The kind of rave generation of the 90s clubbing phenomena that
0:41:11 > 0:41:13happened, that generation, this is the first time that
0:41:13 > 0:41:23they've got old, old-er.
0:41:26 > 0:41:29But that doesn't necessarily mean that they want to slow down in terms
0:41:29 > 0:41:30of their musical passion.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33So I think it's definitely pulled a big chunk of those
0:41:33 > 0:41:34people back out again.
0:41:34 > 0:41:42I think the other thing is that it finishes early, which is good!
0:41:42 > 0:41:44Back in south London, Danny Rampling's getting ready
0:41:44 > 0:41:47to mark 30 years of Shoom, but not in the former
0:41:47 > 0:41:52gym where it all began.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54Presumably, the people who would use this space will not necessarily
0:41:54 > 0:41:55know about Shoom?
0:41:55 > 0:41:57Not unless there's a blue plaque outside!
0:41:57 > 0:41:58Who knows?
0:41:58 > 0:41:59That may happen at some point.
0:41:59 > 0:42:02Yeah, I walk past here, and yeah, I suppose I do get
0:42:02 > 0:42:04nostalgic when I pass here.
0:42:04 > 0:42:08Well, I think we should perhaps leave before we fill up.
0:42:08 > 0:42:10What do you say, Danny?
0:42:10 > 0:42:11# Come into my life
0:42:11 > 0:42:14# I got so much love to show you
0:42:14 > 0:42:16I love coming back here.
0:42:16 > 0:42:18# Boy, I adore you
0:42:18 > 0:42:20# Come into my life
0:42:20 > 0:42:23# I got so much love to show you
0:42:23 > 0:42:24# Come into my life
0:42:24 > 0:42:32# Boy, I adore you...#
0:42:32 > 0:42:37And with that, they left. And we must too. That's all we've got time
0:42:37 > 0:42:39for.
0:42:39 > 0:42:40Evan is with you tomorrow.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42Goodnight.
0:42:42 > 0:42:47Goodnight.