0:00:06 > 0:00:12Tonight, we have a broadcast world exclusive with the woman who fought
0:00:12 > 0:00:15to bring Harvey Weinstein to justice two long decades ago.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18For me to have broken into a meeting like that was very unusual,
0:00:18 > 0:00:20and he did not question me.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23He got up and came with me straight away because he knew why
0:00:23 > 0:00:27I was as angry and serious as I was.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29So you accused him of attempted rape?
0:00:29 > 0:00:30Yeah, yeah.
0:00:30 > 0:00:31And he denied it?
0:00:31 > 0:00:32Yes.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35He said nothing at all had happened.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38And he swore on the life of his wife and his children,
0:00:38 > 0:00:43which was his best get out of jail card that he used quite a lot.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45And did it ever cross your mind that that he might
0:00:45 > 0:00:46be telling the truth?
0:00:46 > 0:00:49No.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57Good evening.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01At the end of a year which has seen women speak out with such clarity
0:01:01 > 0:01:03about abuse of male power, we dedicate much of tonight's
0:01:03 > 0:01:06programme to hearing from one who worked for Harvey Weinstein
0:01:06 > 0:01:07two decades ago.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10Zelda Perkins accused the Hollywood mogul of the attempted
0:01:10 > 0:01:13rape of her colleague, and tried to start criminal
0:01:13 > 0:01:16proceedings against him.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18She has never spoken on camera about it before.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21She told Newsnight about the moment she confronted Weinstein
0:01:21 > 0:01:24over his behaviour, how she expected his company
0:01:24 > 0:01:27to fire him, and how she was told the only way to get Miramax
0:01:27 > 0:01:30to listen to her was by making a monetary request.
0:01:30 > 0:01:35Zelda Perkins ended up signing a non disclosure agreement worth £125,000.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38For 19 years, the company bought her silence.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40She told me why she decided to break it now.
0:01:40 > 0:01:48And what working for him was like.
0:01:48 > 0:01:53Listen, Harvey now everyone sees is this sort of repulsive monster.
0:01:53 > 0:01:58Which he was and is, on one hand.
0:01:58 > 0:02:05But I think what is interesting and what isn't maybe brought forward
0:02:05 > 0:02:08is that he was also an extremely exciting, brilliant, you know,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11stimulating person to be around.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15He was at the top of his game at that time.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18He held all the cards.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Everybody came to him.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23And I'm not just talking about people in the
0:02:23 > 0:02:25entertainment industry.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27I'm talking about people in politics and in, you know,
0:02:27 > 0:02:32big business and industry.
0:02:32 > 0:02:38And so to be in the enclave of somebody that powerful,
0:02:38 > 0:02:44you know, was very exciting.
0:02:44 > 0:02:49He was also very unpleasant to be around.
0:02:49 > 0:02:53But he was a master manipulator and you know, his moods changed very
0:02:53 > 0:02:55quickly and you never knew whether you were, you know,
0:02:55 > 0:03:00his confidant or whether you were going to be screamed at.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04So it was a very highly adrenalised environment.
0:03:04 > 0:03:12When did you first notice that he had a problem with women?
0:03:14 > 0:03:16I don't know that I could say I noticed he had
0:03:16 > 0:03:19a problem with women.
0:03:19 > 0:03:23I think, again it's very difficult.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25Everybody now says why did everyone go to his hotel room?
0:03:25 > 0:03:29It wasn't as simple as that.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31You know, everybody went to his hotel.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34This was where he did business.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38It wasn't in his bedroom, it was in his suite.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41You know, you had top agents, top movie stars male and female
0:03:41 > 0:03:43coming in hourly for meetings.
0:03:43 > 0:03:49This was his place of business.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52So it wasn't sort of this spurious, weird thing that you had
0:03:52 > 0:03:56to go up to his room.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59However, he had a lot of meetings with actresses
0:03:59 > 0:04:03and he clearly had girlfriends.
0:04:03 > 0:04:09You know, he had regular female visitors who were
0:04:09 > 0:04:10actresses sometimes, aspiring actresses,
0:04:10 > 0:04:15well-known actresses.
0:04:15 > 0:04:17And they clearly had a fairly intimate personal
0:04:17 > 0:04:20relationship with him.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23But as an assistant that's not really something that
0:04:23 > 0:04:26you're involved with.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Did you assume that those relationships were consensual?
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Did they seem just to be part of that world?
0:04:31 > 0:04:34Yes.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37I presumed they were consensual.
0:04:37 > 0:04:43But there were obviously some women who were reluctant to come.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46You know, when you would ring up to try and make a meeting
0:04:46 > 0:04:48they would always come up with excuses and Harvey
0:04:48 > 0:04:49would get very angry.
0:04:49 > 0:04:50And threatening.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52And would threaten, you know, you personally.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56You had to make sure that this meeting happened.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58With Harvey there was no such word as no.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02I think that's really the crux of the matter.
0:05:02 > 0:05:07Zelda, when you first started working for him,
0:05:07 > 0:05:16some voices were warning you what he was like?
0:05:16 > 0:05:20I had one morning and I have to say that woman really saved my honour.
0:05:20 > 0:05:22Because actually being warned is very important
0:05:22 > 0:05:26because it arms you.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29And all she had said to me was, always sit in an armchair.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32Don't ever sit on a sofa next to him.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35And always keep your puffer jacket on!
0:05:35 > 0:05:42No more than that.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45But actually it was an incredibly important and good piece of advice
0:05:45 > 0:05:47because it meant that I was ready actually when he did
0:05:47 > 0:05:49start behaving badly.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51And it also meant that I wasn't as frightened.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54Because I knew that it had happened to other people.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57So, you know, I was very robust in the way that I dealt with it.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59And he, you know, he took that.
0:05:59 > 0:06:00He was very persistent.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03What did he do?
0:06:03 > 0:06:06Well, I think everybody by now has read pretty much everything,
0:06:06 > 0:06:12you know, that he has done.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15And he didn't have a very original repertoire, you know,
0:06:15 > 0:06:17but it was a system that worked.
0:06:17 > 0:06:24You know, massages, inappropriate suggestions,
0:06:24 > 0:06:26expecting people to work with him, you know, unclothed.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29You know, pretty much everything that you've read I've had
0:06:29 > 0:06:30to experience at some point or another.
0:06:30 > 0:06:34And you then passed that warning on?
0:06:34 > 0:06:38I did warn people that he had a habit of behaving inappropriately.
0:06:38 > 0:06:43But that they were safe, because I had always been safe.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46And I genuinely never was physically threatened by him.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49Emotionally and psychologically, constantly.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53But never physically.
0:06:53 > 0:07:00And I said, I'm afraid he's a pain, he will behave inappropriately,
0:07:00 > 0:07:02you just tell him where to go.
0:07:02 > 0:07:06You're tough with him, nothing will happen.
0:07:06 > 0:07:12But I was wrong.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15And it came to a head for you when he sexually assaulted,
0:07:15 > 0:07:16attempted rape, on your colleague?
0:07:16 > 0:07:20Yes.
0:07:20 > 0:07:21We were at Venice Film Festival.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23And he tried to rape her.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25What did you do?
0:07:25 > 0:07:27She was extremely distressed.
0:07:27 > 0:07:31She was shaking, very distressed, clearly in shock.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33Didn't want anybody to know, was absolutely terrified
0:07:33 > 0:07:42of the consequences, what would happen.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44And I spoke with her and you know, tried to calm her for
0:07:44 > 0:07:49about half an hour.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51And then I went straight downstairs to where Harvey was having
0:07:51 > 0:07:55a business meeting on the terrace.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59And told him he needed to come with me right away.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02For me to have broken into a meeting like that was very unusual.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04And he did not question me.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07He got up and came with me straightaway because he knew why
0:08:07 > 0:08:11I was as angry and serious as I was.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13So you accused him of attempted rape?
0:08:13 > 0:08:14Yes.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16And he denied it?
0:08:16 > 0:08:18Yes.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20He said nothing at all has happened.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24And he swore on the life of his wife and his children,
0:08:24 > 0:08:28which was his best get out of jail card that he used quite a lot.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32And did it ever cross your mind that he might be telling the truth?
0:08:32 > 0:08:34No.
0:08:34 > 0:08:43Not if you saw the girl that I have just seen.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46And at this point, four years down the time of working for Harvey,
0:08:46 > 0:08:47I knew him pretty well.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50I knew when he was telling the truth or not.
0:08:50 > 0:08:58And then what did you do?
0:08:58 > 0:09:01We returned to the UK and I spoke to my only senior
0:09:01 > 0:09:04in the Miramax offices.
0:09:04 > 0:09:11And she suggested that I got a lawyer.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14So we both resigned from the company saying that we felt
0:09:14 > 0:09:18we were constructively dismissed because of his behaviour
0:09:18 > 0:09:21and that we would be, he would be hearing from our solicitor.
0:09:21 > 0:09:23And so you found a lawyer, solicitor?
0:09:23 > 0:09:24Yes.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27And at this point I thought we were going to go
0:09:27 > 0:09:28to criminal proceedings.
0:09:28 > 0:09:29And take him to court.
0:09:29 > 0:09:34And that he would be punished for what he had done.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37You were prepared to go that far and have him locked up?
0:09:37 > 0:09:39Well, it was the only route I thought there was.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42It was the only route as far as I was concerned.
0:09:42 > 0:09:46And what happened?
0:09:46 > 0:09:49The lawyers made it very clear that we didn't
0:09:49 > 0:09:53have very many options.
0:09:53 > 0:10:00Because we hadn't gone to the police when we were in Venice,
0:10:00 > 0:10:05we had no physical evidence and ultimately it would be two under
0:10:05 > 0:10:1425-year-old women's word against Harvey Weinstein,
0:10:14 > 0:10:19Miramax Film Corporation and essentially The Disney Company.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22Because I naively believed that if we went to Disney they would be
0:10:22 > 0:10:24horrified and would fire Harvey or you know help us
0:10:24 > 0:10:27with the proceedings.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29But the lawyers made it very clear that that was not
0:10:29 > 0:10:35how the world works.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38So you were ready to bring him down at that point, you took
0:10:38 > 0:10:41the only option you thought you could and you faced doors
0:10:41 > 0:10:42slamming in your face?
0:10:42 > 0:10:43Essentially?
0:10:43 > 0:10:44Yes.
0:10:44 > 0:10:54Yes.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59And it sounds odd but for me, you know, this was really
0:10:59 > 0:11:00where my trauma started and my abuse started.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03I could deal with Harvey, he was an unpleasant, difficult man,
0:11:03 > 0:11:07but I had ways of dealing with him.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10What I couldn't deal with, what I had no equipment for was to
0:11:10 > 0:11:12deal with the legal system.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16You know, essentially I had gone to the parents to say you know,
0:11:16 > 0:11:18somebody's done something bad and there was no
0:11:18 > 0:11:23recourse, it seemed.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26And that was really shocking and very frightening to discover
0:11:26 > 0:11:31that the law couldn't help me.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35In hindsight it wasn't a simple as that.
0:11:35 > 0:11:39My lawyers were giving me the advice they thought was best.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43However...
0:11:43 > 0:11:46And I think probably if we had gone to the police, I don't know
0:11:46 > 0:11:48what would have happened.
0:11:48 > 0:11:54In truth I don't know if we would have got anywhere.
0:11:54 > 0:11:58You know and at 23 when you're faced with that, you know,
0:11:58 > 0:12:04the advice from your own legal team is be quiet.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06You know, you will get dragged backwards, forwards
0:12:06 > 0:12:08and sideways through the courts.
0:12:08 > 0:12:10As will your family.
0:12:10 > 0:12:11As will your friends.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14As will anybody who knows anything about you.
0:12:14 > 0:12:16You haven't got a chance.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20You will be destroyed.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24It's quite difficult to know where to turn.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27Do you think now that you were terribly advised,
0:12:27 > 0:12:32or do you think they protected you as best they could?
0:12:32 > 0:12:38In truth, I don't know.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40You ended up signing a nondisclosure agreement.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42Tell us how that came about?
0:12:46 > 0:12:51This is very difficult because once the lawyers presented a damages
0:12:51 > 0:12:58agreement as our only option, the one thing that I was very clear
0:12:58 > 0:13:08about was that we had to find some way of stopping Harvey's behaviour.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12And two, that I didn't want money to change hands at any point.
0:13:12 > 0:13:16At this point I was told the only way that we would even get Miramax
0:13:16 > 0:13:19to the table was by making a monetary request.
0:13:19 > 0:13:29I mean, it was a very intense agreement in terms of the secrecy.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32I was not allowed to ever speak to anybody about even
0:13:32 > 0:13:36really my time working at Miramax.
0:13:36 > 0:13:41I was not allowed to speak to a therapist without them signing
0:13:41 > 0:13:45a confidentiality agreement.
0:13:45 > 0:13:51I was not allowed to speak to my accountant with regards
0:13:51 > 0:13:55to the money that I received.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58Which was how much?
0:13:58 > 0:14:03It was 125,000.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06And I think at this point once I realised that this
0:14:06 > 0:14:13was my only arsenal, the only thing I was going to have
0:14:13 > 0:14:19to try and prevent Harvey's behaviour, was to create
0:14:19 > 0:14:22an agreement that was as binding to him and as difficult for him
0:14:22 > 0:14:25as it was going to be for me.
0:14:25 > 0:14:30And the only way that I could accept the fact that money
0:14:30 > 0:14:34was going to have to change hands was that he was going to have to do
0:14:34 > 0:14:36an awful lot for that money.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39And what did you ask him to do?
0:14:39 > 0:14:44Well, there were a lot of obligations initially
0:14:44 > 0:14:46but during the negotiations I had to concede, we had to
0:14:46 > 0:14:49concede some of them.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52But some of the main ones that stayed in was
0:14:52 > 0:14:54that he had to attend therapy.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58For his behaviour.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01And that I was to be present in his first therapy session
0:15:01 > 0:15:03because I was very concerned that he wouldn't talk
0:15:03 > 0:15:09about the relevance, the reason that he was at a therapist.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12Again you have to remember, this is a man who can manipulate
0:15:12 > 0:15:15everybody and I was very aware of this.
0:15:15 > 0:15:20And I was trying to put teeth into any little clause that I could.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23And did you go with him to that therapy session?
0:15:23 > 0:15:24That never happened.
0:15:24 > 0:15:29I don't know if he attended therapy or not.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33I pushed to have this meeting.
0:15:33 > 0:15:38But his legal team kept stalling.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42And after this process I actually was pretty broken.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45I was pretty broken and exhausted and so disillusioned.
0:15:45 > 0:15:52And I didn't have the energy to go on fighting.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54And in reality it was not my obligation to follow
0:15:54 > 0:15:57up his obligation.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01And what is extraordinary looking back is you would imagine that
0:16:01 > 0:16:05Miramax Films would have been bending over backwards to make
0:16:05 > 0:16:08sure that all of those obligations were fulfilled.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12But they weren't.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15Your career path was ended that point.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17Pretty much, yes.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22So what did you do?
0:16:22 > 0:16:27I ended up moving to Central America to train horses!
0:16:27 > 0:16:32I did spend a little bit of time trying for work again
0:16:32 > 0:16:34in London and it was a pretty unpleasant experience.
0:16:34 > 0:16:41Because my reputation was pretty suspect.
0:16:41 > 0:16:49And when you've spent a month of your life fighting with every
0:16:49 > 0:16:55ounce of your strength for right and to stop,
0:16:55 > 0:16:59you know, a predator, to have to face that kind of...
0:16:59 > 0:17:03..environment afterwards was very, very hard.
0:17:03 > 0:17:07I really couldn't, I couldn't stay in the industry at that point.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09He calls himself a sex addict now.
0:17:09 > 0:17:13Do you think that was at the root?
0:17:13 > 0:17:15No.
0:17:15 > 0:17:19I don't think he's a sex addict.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22He's a power addict.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24Everything he did, everything that drove him was about dominance.
0:17:24 > 0:17:32With men and women.
0:17:32 > 0:17:36He put an enormous amount of energy into humiliating men and an enormous
0:17:36 > 0:17:37amount of energy into getting women to submit.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39And getting men to submit.
0:17:39 > 0:17:40That was what drove him.
0:17:40 > 0:17:50You know, his overarching need for power.
0:17:55 > 0:17:59So you think now if you had been listened to at that point,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01everything that came after 20 years ago would have been avoided?
0:18:01 > 0:18:02Yes.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04It was the entire system, you know.
0:18:04 > 0:18:11And the system essentially protected Harvey in this case,
0:18:11 > 0:18:17but I can guarantee it protects 100 other people like that.
0:18:17 > 0:18:22Because if you have the power and the money to create agreements
0:18:22 > 0:18:26that cover-up essentially a very serious and in this case crime,
0:18:26 > 0:18:28criminal action, then I dread to imagine what other things
0:18:28 > 0:18:38are being covered up.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43You describe these feelings of signing an NDA that basically put
0:18:43 > 0:18:49you in exactly the opposite position to the one you had hoped.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51You wanted to be speaking out, you wanted to be changing
0:18:51 > 0:18:53the culture, and you were gagged.
0:18:53 > 0:18:58How long did you live with that before you had enough?
0:18:58 > 0:19:01Well this happened 19 years ago.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05During that time there were a couple of occasions where I made attempts
0:19:05 > 0:19:13to circumnavigate my agreement.
0:19:13 > 0:19:23However it was almost impossible for me because one of the causes
0:19:23 > 0:19:26-- clauses of the agreement disallows me to have a copy of it.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29So I don't actually have a copy of the agreement that I signed.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31Why?
0:19:31 > 0:19:32Because it's a smoking gun.
0:19:32 > 0:19:36If you have an agreement that somebody signed that says
0:19:36 > 0:19:40that he will go to therapy, that he will be dismissed
0:19:40 > 0:19:45from his own company if anybody else makes a claim in the ensuing period,
0:19:45 > 0:19:48you know that HR policy for sexual harassment has to be
0:19:48 > 0:19:50brought into the company, it's pretty clear that
0:19:50 > 0:19:53something is wrong.
0:19:53 > 0:19:56So they never let you have a copy of it?
0:19:56 > 0:19:58They never let you see the whole thing?
0:19:58 > 0:20:00I'm allowed to look at it supervised.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03I was allowed to look at it supervised in my lawyer's office.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07What do you think should happen with NDAs now?
0:20:07 > 0:20:09I mean as you say, you broke your cover,
0:20:09 > 0:20:12you want others to do the same.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14Listen, I'm not stupid.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17I understand that nondisclosure agreements have a place
0:20:17 > 0:20:21in society and for both sides.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24But it's really important that legislation is changed around how
0:20:24 > 0:20:29these agreements are regulated.
0:20:29 > 0:20:34You cannot have a legal document that protects a criminal.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36This isn't someone telling you a dodgy car.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40You know.
0:20:40 > 0:20:45And in fact now the state of California, New Jersey
0:20:45 > 0:20:47and New York are changing legislation so that you can no
0:20:47 > 0:20:52longer hide sexual assault or abuse in a nondisclosure agreement.
0:20:52 > 0:20:57I want that to happen here, it has to happen here.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00We are a civilised culture.
0:21:00 > 0:21:06You know, this has to be debated and the law needs to be changed.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08You can't change the Harvey Weinsteins of the world.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11There are always going to be people who follow the darker
0:21:11 > 0:21:13side of their character.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16But if the rules and the laws that we have to protect ourselves
0:21:16 > 0:21:24enable that then there's no point in having them.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28Do you think that culture is changing now?
0:21:28 > 0:21:32Do you feel that this has been a proper watershed year?
0:21:32 > 0:21:33I think it has.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36I think it's still got a very long way to go.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40I think that women are in a much stronger position, but I think
0:21:40 > 0:21:44we have to be extremely careful.
0:21:44 > 0:21:51And I think the media has to be responsible with its reporting.
0:21:51 > 0:21:56But I think there is still a long way to go.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59Do you think Hollywood will change now, or do you think it
0:21:59 > 0:22:05will always go where the money is and the artistic minds are?
0:22:05 > 0:22:11Yes, I think Hollywood will change but this isn't just about Hollywood.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13This isn't about Hollywood, this is about, the reason that this
0:22:13 > 0:22:15story has captured everybody's imagination is because it involves
0:22:15 > 0:22:18glamorous, famous people.
0:22:18 > 0:22:24And because if you were trying to paint a fantasy monster,
0:22:24 > 0:22:28Harvey fits the bill perfectly.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30So it's the perfect media storm.
0:22:30 > 0:22:31But this isn't about Hollywood.
0:22:31 > 0:22:36This is about the abuse of power.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39How do you think you will see 2017 in this context
0:22:39 > 0:22:46in your life, looking back?
0:22:46 > 0:22:50It's an interesting question.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53Because everybody when they talk to me, they say this must be very
0:22:53 > 0:22:55distressing for you.
0:22:55 > 0:22:59And the one thing it isn't is distressing.
0:22:59 > 0:23:02The last 20 years have been distressing.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05Where I've not been allowed to speak, where I've not been
0:23:05 > 0:23:06allowed to be myself.
0:23:06 > 0:23:10And not just for me, for lots of women.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12Who have not been able to own their past.
0:23:12 > 0:23:16And for many of them, their trauma.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19And I think I've realised that actually it was much more traumatic
0:23:19 > 0:23:24than I realised at the time.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28Because the freedom of being able to speak and being validated.
0:23:28 > 0:23:33And being able to now see that I wasn't mad.
0:23:33 > 0:23:38You know, that this was wrong, this is wrong, this is right.
0:23:38 > 0:23:40And that although you know, the process that I went
0:23:40 > 0:23:46through was legal, it was immoral.
0:23:46 > 0:23:52And now I feel that maybe I can be instrumental in some sort of change.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55And if I can make one good thing happen out of something as horrific
0:23:55 > 0:23:58as all the damage that Harvey has caused, then you know,
0:23:58 > 0:24:00that makes this year a fabulous year for me personally.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02Zelda Perkins, thank you.
0:24:02 > 0:24:09Thank you.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12In response to her allegations, Harvey Weinstein's lawyers issued
0:24:12 > 0:24:15the following statement:
0:24:15 > 0:24:17"Mr Weinstein categorically denies engaging in any non-consensual
0:24:17 > 0:24:20conduct or alleged threatening behaviour."
0:24:20 > 0:24:22The Walt Disney Company has not replied.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25Miramax had no comment.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29The lawyers representing Zelda Perkins at the time
0:24:29 > 0:24:32that the Non Disclosure Agreement was signed said it was inappropriate
0:24:32 > 0:24:36for them to comment, given the terms of the NDA.
0:24:36 > 0:24:38Geoffrey Robertson is one of Britain's best known barristers
0:24:38 > 0:24:40who writes on media law and free speech -
0:24:40 > 0:24:46he's familiar with the case.
0:24:46 > 0:24:51You have watched that interview. What would you say to people
0:24:51 > 0:24:59listening to say enormous sympathy for what she has been through but
0:24:59 > 0:25:04why would she have taken the money? She's courageous in speaking up
0:25:04 > 0:25:09because she has been led to think that she will suffer from the Disney
0:25:09 > 0:25:14company, from Miramax, from the lawyers of Harvey Weinstein. But in
0:25:14 > 0:25:24fact I would say she achieved a great deal. Harvey Weinstein was not
0:25:24 > 0:25:28able to be prosecuted for the simple reason and I do not think she
0:25:28 > 0:25:32understands this, that the offence was committed in Italy and it is a
0:25:32 > 0:25:37matter for the Italian police. The CPS might have sent statements but
0:25:37 > 0:25:44that is as far as it would've gone. So given that she had only one which
0:25:44 > 0:25:48was to sue him, to bring legal proceedings and of course when the
0:25:48 > 0:25:54legal proceedings were threatened for constructive dismissal and so
0:25:54 > 0:25:58on, they were met with this offer of money but they achieved more than
0:25:58 > 0:26:05that. She was entitled to money as compensation for losing her job, she
0:26:05 > 0:26:10obviously could not work with Harvey Weinstein again after this, she was
0:26:10 > 0:26:17entitled to compensation for the stress. But what she achieved was in
0:26:17 > 0:26:24fact a direction that lawyers should organise therapy for Harvey
0:26:24 > 0:26:27Weinstein. If that had been done dozens of women may not have been
0:26:27 > 0:26:35abused. There was a proper system setup, there was meant to be.What
0:26:35 > 0:26:39was interesting for me was when she talks about the trauma may be
0:26:39 > 0:26:43beginning not with Harvey Weinstein but with that legal net of the
0:26:43 > 0:26:49agreement are closing around her... Well what I have seen of the
0:26:49 > 0:26:59agreement, I would regard that as unenforceable. I have no doubt that
0:26:59 > 0:27:03the Supreme Court, Justice Brenda Hale and her colleagues would say a
0:27:03 > 0:27:07lot about that but certainly would say it was unenforceable. But of
0:27:07 > 0:27:10course it would never get to the Supreme Court or Court of Appeal or
0:27:10 > 0:27:15High Court because the victim is intimidated.Because it cost so
0:27:15 > 0:27:21much. Instead of looking at this as whether the victim should be on
0:27:21 > 0:27:24trial for this is the question is whether the disclosure agreements
0:27:24 > 0:27:28themselves should be on trial.Of course they should and in America
0:27:28 > 0:27:33where there is no inhibition on nondisclosure agreements that
0:27:33 > 0:27:37cover-up crime, the story has been very influential and laws are being
0:27:37 > 0:27:45changed. She could change it here? The law here requires a bit of
0:27:45 > 0:27:49explanation and I must give you a bit of history, 1000 years ago
0:27:49 > 0:27:56wealthy men could rape and pay money and never be punished. But in the
0:27:56 > 0:28:02civilising process we decided that rape and assault were not just
0:28:02 > 0:28:05crimes against individuals but against society and deserved
0:28:05 > 0:28:12punishment. So we have a law called the provision of felony where it was
0:28:12 > 0:28:18an offence to cover up a serious crime. In 1967 we changed that the
0:28:18 > 0:28:22law in the criminal Justice act section five, we made it an offence
0:28:22 > 0:28:32for a victim like Zelda to receive money to cover up the crime. But she
0:28:32 > 0:28:37was entitled to receive money for the trauma and wrongful dismissal
0:28:37 > 0:28:43and so forth. But we did not make it an offence for the perpetrator to
0:28:43 > 0:28:48offer money.So how can a NDA be used to cover-up crime, that is the
0:28:48 > 0:28:54question at the bottom of this.My view is that a NDA which purports to
0:28:54 > 0:28:58cover-up crime is unenforceable. And it's possibly illegal. What I think
0:28:58 > 0:29:07Parliament should do, is to change the 1967 law to make it an offence
0:29:07 > 0:29:13for the perpetrator or his agents to offer money and they should add to
0:29:13 > 0:29:17the unfair contract act that nondisclosure agreements should only
0:29:17 > 0:29:23operate 457 years.Let me ask you more broadly, there are other women
0:29:23 > 0:29:30out there like Zelda who have signed an NDA. It is not binding.So they
0:29:30 > 0:29:37could come forward? If they have enough money to pay lawyers, yes.
0:29:37 > 0:29:42They could still be prosecuted by civil war?Under civil law they
0:29:42 > 0:29:46could, and attempt could be made to pressure them with breach of
0:29:46 > 0:29:53confidence. My answer to that, legal answer, there's no in iniquity, that
0:29:53 > 0:30:02is the law and iniquity infused sexual assault. -- includes. So if
0:30:02 > 0:30:06you fearful of the object of these NDAs is to intimidate, to
0:30:06 > 0:30:10intimidate, to make them fearful, you have nothing to fear by speaking
0:30:10 > 0:30:14out.Thank you very much.
0:30:14 > 0:30:16Last night, we looked back at Labour's political year.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18Tonight, in our last programme of 2017, we turn
0:30:18 > 0:30:19to the Conservatives.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22Its hard to remember, in December, what they looked like in March.
0:30:22 > 0:30:24Before the General Election, Theresa May was 20 points
0:30:24 > 0:30:25ahead in the polls.
0:30:25 > 0:30:28Tonight, we ask what the Tories need to do to redefine
0:30:28 > 0:30:29themselves in 2018.
0:30:29 > 0:30:35Whether they risk being defined by Brexit and Brexit alone,
0:30:35 > 0:30:38and how the cabinet views the parliamentary rebels that
0:30:38 > 0:30:40have the power to lose their Prime Minister a critical vote
0:30:40 > 0:30:41in the commons.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43We'll ask Chris Grayling in a moment.
0:30:43 > 0:30:47First a look back.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49Not only was it appalling, but it was a real tragedy
0:30:49 > 0:30:53because we have a good story to tell.
0:30:53 > 0:30:56I thought the Prime Minister was let down badly.
0:30:56 > 0:31:01It was ill-advised strategically, tactically.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04Not to get the result that she or any of us
0:31:04 > 0:31:09expected was pretty low.
0:31:09 > 0:31:13For some the end of 2017 will not come soon enough.
0:31:13 > 0:31:19Certainly it has been a year of two halves.
0:31:19 > 0:31:22A buoyant spring brought the triggering of Article 50.
0:31:22 > 0:31:26The United Kingdom is leaving the European Union.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28For a while it seemed like the parliamentary battle over
0:31:28 > 0:31:32Brexit had been won.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35But then came this...
0:31:35 > 0:31:39The government should call a general election.
0:31:39 > 0:31:41The election they called snap, which turned out to be
0:31:41 > 0:31:44more like roulette.
0:31:44 > 0:31:47It took an agonisingly long toll on the public.
0:31:47 > 0:31:50I think the whole country has had enough of politics,
0:31:50 > 0:31:53politicians telling us this, that and the other.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56And on the party itself.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59I thought the Prime Minister was let down badly.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02It was ill-advised strategically, tactically, a clunky to say
0:32:02 > 0:32:05the least election campaign.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08Made robots of us all.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10Repeating dead mantras.
0:32:10 > 0:32:14And we made Corbyn look authentic.
0:32:14 > 0:32:17Well, it was appalling.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21And you know, I knew that I felt that very deeply on the ground.
0:32:21 > 0:32:23And in my view not only was it appalling,
0:32:23 > 0:32:24but it was a real tragedy.
0:32:24 > 0:32:26Because we have a good story to tell.
0:32:26 > 0:32:28What do people want?
0:32:28 > 0:32:32Good infrastructure, good public services, wealth creation.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35If you don't get the basics right, OK, then you cannot branch
0:32:35 > 0:32:37off into social care, you cannot branch off into reform.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40When May's closest advisers were forced out it seemed the PM
0:32:40 > 0:32:44herself wouldn't be far behind.
0:32:44 > 0:32:46Now, let's get to work.
0:32:46 > 0:32:48But she survived that.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50While we will...
0:32:50 > 0:32:51Excuse me.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54And even that.
0:32:54 > 0:32:56It was not possible to reach agreement today.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00And yes, that too.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04The Prime Minister's personal resilience is extraordinary.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06And actually she demonstrated that in the EU negotiations, you know,
0:33:06 > 0:33:09getting to phase two.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12In the way she handled the fallout from the DUP not
0:33:12 > 0:33:14agreeing and then agreeing, and everything else.
0:33:14 > 0:33:16So I think actually, there are definitely elements
0:33:16 > 0:33:17of strong and stable there.
0:33:17 > 0:33:23And it's what the country want.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26And somehow at the year's end it feels like she's turned it around.
0:33:26 > 0:33:30# Christ the Saviour is born...
0:33:30 > 0:33:34A deal on the first phase of Brexit has left party
0:33:34 > 0:33:35feeling, well, hopeful.
0:33:35 > 0:33:39# Christ the Saviour is born...
0:33:39 > 0:33:42The spirit of the age is a spirit of insurgent,
0:33:42 > 0:33:47creative, entrepreneurial opportunity and empowerment.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49Conservatism for the 21st-century can take that spirit and use
0:33:49 > 0:33:53Brexit as the moment to electrify our programme.
0:33:53 > 0:33:55The good news is the public aren't looking at us
0:33:55 > 0:34:01as an eight-year-old, tired, burnt out administration.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03But as this old fraught, mistake laden year draws to a close,
0:34:03 > 0:34:06the party is trying to work out how to position itself
0:34:06 > 0:34:08for the year to come.
0:34:08 > 0:34:10In the face of Jeremy Corbyn's Momentum, what is their offer
0:34:10 > 0:34:12to voters and how much are they constrained
0:34:12 > 0:34:16by those demands of Brexit?
0:34:16 > 0:34:20It is really urgent that as the Prime Minister sees
0:34:20 > 0:34:24through the noble and frankly thankless task of negotiating
0:34:24 > 0:34:30Brexit, that under her leadership a messianic piece of work has begun
0:34:30 > 0:34:33to make this a moment of Conservative renewal that can
0:34:33 > 0:34:34inspire those who didn't vote for it.
0:34:34 > 0:34:36I think it's very urgent.
0:34:36 > 0:34:39I think if we don't, this is in danger of being Brexit
0:34:39 > 0:34:41that breaks, not makes conservatism.
0:34:41 > 0:34:43We are in a risk of this being a moment, a catastrophic
0:34:43 > 0:34:45moment where conservatism isn't forgiven by generation
0:34:45 > 0:34:49who didn't vote for it.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52There's very clear policies that have come out in the last two
0:34:52 > 0:34:55and a half years that I have been in this place that I have
0:34:55 > 0:34:58not been able to sell on the doors in Plymouth.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01And you do think, and I have thought to myself, how do these policies
0:35:01 > 0:35:03become in the public domain?
0:35:03 > 0:35:05Why is that, I think because we are reaping
0:35:05 > 0:35:11the harvest of a generation of career politicians.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14There are some really talented ones in there and there are some really
0:35:14 > 0:35:18gifted people who come to Parliament because they believe in something.
0:35:18 > 0:35:20But I think those two categories have fallen somewhat.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23And what of this politician's career?
0:35:23 > 0:35:26May, who so often these past months appeared to be hanging by a thread,
0:35:26 > 0:35:34now looks if not exactly strong, at least stable.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36And curiously, it's the ones who have traditionally toed
0:35:36 > 0:35:39the party line who have now become her backbench rebels.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42The ones with the power to lose her her first Brexit vote.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45Nicky Morgan was one of a handful who sided in favour of Parliament
0:35:45 > 0:35:48having the ultimate vote on Brexit.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50She was deemed a malcontent and a traitor by certain elements
0:35:50 > 0:35:53of the national press.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56The extent of the bullying, if you like, the name-calling,
0:35:56 > 0:36:03the abuse, personal, death threats, it is extraordinary.
0:36:03 > 0:36:06And I don't like talking about it as a female MP because we need
0:36:06 > 0:36:08more women in politics.
0:36:08 > 0:36:09I don't want to put people off.
0:36:09 > 0:36:14But it has become quite an extraordinary way to behave.
0:36:14 > 0:36:18So maybe 2018 will just be one more year with the Tories
0:36:18 > 0:36:21split along Europe.
0:36:21 > 0:36:26Or maybe the election will come to be seen as the best thing
0:36:26 > 0:36:28Theresa May ever did for her colleagues, at least those
0:36:28 > 0:36:30who kept their seats.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33The loss of her majority which seemed so politically
0:36:33 > 0:36:35devastating at the time, may just have allowed her to reset
0:36:35 > 0:36:41the parameters of what Brexit means.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44Well - earlier I spoke to Theresa May's Transport Secretary -
0:36:44 > 0:36:46and the man who chaired her leadership campaign -
0:36:46 > 0:36:47Chris Grayling.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51And I asked him how the year had been.
0:36:51 > 0:36:53Well, it's had its ups, it's had its downs.
0:36:53 > 0:36:56We've had some difficult times through the general election
0:36:56 > 0:36:58campaign that was disappointing.
0:36:58 > 0:37:01We have been through a lengthy Brexit process but we have
0:37:01 > 0:37:04reached the end of the year in a good position.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07Where we have completed the first stage of the negotiations.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10And actually alongside all of that, perhaps the thing I am proudest
0:37:10 > 0:37:12of that we have achieved this year, the lowest unemployment
0:37:12 > 0:37:14since the 1970s.
0:37:14 > 0:37:16That's a really big step forward for the country.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18Jeremy Corbyn thinks he could be Prime Minister
0:37:18 > 0:37:20by this time next year.
0:37:20 > 0:37:24Well, I think that is a sign of why Jeremy Corbyn is not fit
0:37:24 > 0:37:25to be Prime Minister.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28He obviously has not read the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.
0:37:28 > 0:37:30The next general election is due in June 2020-22.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32The Conservative Party will take us through Brexit.
0:37:32 > 0:37:34We will deliver a Britain that is going forward,
0:37:34 > 0:37:36that is using smart technology, smart innovation, to create
0:37:36 > 0:37:37an exciting future.
0:37:37 > 0:37:42And we have no intention of letting Jeremy Corbyn anywhere near power.
0:37:42 > 0:37:44You cannot fault his logic, though.
0:37:44 > 0:37:47Your government has seemed like one that could tumble at any point
0:37:47 > 0:37:48in the last six months.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50No, that is tittle tattle.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53It's not at all a government that is going to topple.
0:37:53 > 0:37:56We have a strong relationship with the DUP, we've got
0:37:56 > 0:37:58a team of Conservative MPs who are committed to taking
0:37:58 > 0:37:59this country forward.
0:37:59 > 0:38:01When people say this I ask the question, can
0:38:01 > 0:38:04you name the Conservative MP who is going to vote
0:38:04 > 0:38:06for an early election, who's going to abandon the Brexit
0:38:06 > 0:38:09process, and leave the country in danger of a far left-wing
0:38:09 > 0:38:10government led by Jeremy Corbyn?
0:38:10 > 0:38:13There is no such member of Parliament.
0:38:13 > 0:38:17Your hands are tied by Brexit, Jeremy Corbyn has momentum,
0:38:17 > 0:38:19everything that you do, everything you want to pay
0:38:19 > 0:38:22for and push forward comes back to Brexit.
0:38:22 > 0:38:25You might just be the caretaker government for the public
0:38:25 > 0:38:28until they can have their Brexit and get rid of you.
0:38:28 > 0:38:29Well, no.
0:38:29 > 0:38:30Not at all.
0:38:30 > 0:38:33We are a government that has delivered real change since 2010.
0:38:33 > 0:38:38Positive change.
0:38:38 > 0:38:41To go back to that point about the state of the labour
0:38:41 > 0:38:43market, never in my wildest dreams, I was employment minister back
0:38:43 > 0:38:46in 2010, inheriting the mess we took over from Labour,
0:38:46 > 0:38:49two and a half million unemployment and rising.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52It has exceeded all my expectations that we now have brought
0:38:52 > 0:38:54unemployment down to the lowest level since the 1970s.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56But you know as well as I do...
0:38:56 > 0:38:58That is just one example of the positive change
0:38:58 > 0:39:00we've made in government, we've delivered in government.
0:39:00 > 0:39:03You know as well as I do that many of those jobs don't even
0:39:03 > 0:39:04deliver the living wage.
0:39:04 > 0:39:07I'm going to quote you Iain Duncan Smith who said,
0:39:07 > 0:39:10"British business will have to learn to get by in a different world."
0:39:10 > 0:39:14And we know that today for example the Financial Times has estimated
0:39:14 > 0:39:17that the UK is £350 million a week worse off than if it
0:39:17 > 0:39:20had voted Remain.
0:39:20 > 0:39:23What does it mean to get by in a different world?
0:39:23 > 0:39:25Well, the Financial Times, that figured can't be right
0:39:25 > 0:39:28because our economy has carried on growing.
0:39:28 > 0:39:30We've carried on seeing economic progress, exports for example have
0:39:30 > 0:39:33risen sharply in the past 12 months.
0:39:33 > 0:39:36The pound against the dollar is at the level that it was at
0:39:36 > 0:39:38the time of the referendum.
0:39:38 > 0:39:40Our growth forecasts have been revised downwards.
0:39:40 > 0:39:42We are now growing more minutely than anywhere else in Europe.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44But the issue the Office for Budget Responsibility brought
0:39:44 > 0:39:47forward at the time of the budget which is where these
0:39:47 > 0:39:49projections come from, is all down to our productivity
0:39:49 > 0:39:52and this is why we are investing in the future.
0:39:52 > 0:39:54We are investing in technology, we are investing in infrastructure.
0:39:54 > 0:39:58That election was the moment wasn't it where Theresa May had to learn
0:39:58 > 0:40:05to be a consultative, parliamentarian PM.
0:40:05 > 0:40:07She strengthened parliament's restraint if you like
0:40:07 > 0:40:08of her own government.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11Well, it certainly the case that in terms of Parliament,
0:40:11 > 0:40:13in terms of the numbers, it's a more challenging
0:40:13 > 0:40:16period now for us.
0:40:16 > 0:40:24We don't have a majority, we have to win arguments in Parliament.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27We won't always do that, though over the last few months
0:40:27 > 0:40:30we've won virtually all of the votes that have been in Parliament.
0:40:30 > 0:40:32But just looking recently, where those 11 backbenchers right
0:40:32 > 0:40:35to hold out to give Parliament the last word on that Brexit vote?
0:40:35 > 0:40:37I respect the views of colleagues who differ
0:40:37 > 0:40:38from the line that we've taken.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41I would argue that the approach we were taking was right,
0:40:41 > 0:40:44offering a meaningful vote on the treaty when we conclude it.
0:40:44 > 0:40:50We did not win that vote but the truth is we had
0:40:50 > 0:40:56literally dozens of votes on the European Union
0:40:56 > 0:40:58Withdrawal Bill.
0:40:58 > 0:40:59We've lost one.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01They were called mutineers, traitors, malcontents
0:41:01 > 0:41:02by a leading daily newspaper.
0:41:02 > 0:41:03Look, I'm very clear...
0:41:03 > 0:41:04Were you shocked by that?
0:41:04 > 0:41:07I am very clear, we have a free press and the press is entitled
0:41:07 > 0:41:10to say within the bounds of decency what it does.
0:41:10 > 0:41:11I defend...
0:41:11 > 0:41:14Those MPs say they've received death threats on the back of that.
0:41:14 > 0:41:15That is absolutely unacceptable.
0:41:15 > 0:41:17And the Prime Minister has been clear about that...
0:41:17 > 0:41:19So why didn't the Prime Minister speak out publicly
0:41:19 > 0:41:20about that headline?
0:41:20 > 0:41:22The Prime Minister did speak out yesterday and said
0:41:22 > 0:41:23that it was absolutely unacceptable.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26I absolutely defend the rights of individual members of Parliament
0:41:26 > 0:41:28to follow their consciences.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32We try to encourage them to make sure they agree
0:41:32 > 0:41:34with what the government is bringing forward, but threatening people
0:41:34 > 0:41:37who vote the other way is never acceptable and the Prime Minister
0:41:37 > 0:41:39was very clear about that yesterday.
0:41:39 > 0:41:42So why didn't Theresa May stand up and say, that kind of headline,
0:41:42 > 0:41:45from a leading newspaper, is frankly unacceptable
0:41:45 > 0:41:48from a leading newspaper, is frankly unacceptable and abominable?
0:41:48 > 0:41:50All of us as politicians get criticised in the newspapers
0:41:50 > 0:41:51from time to time.
0:41:51 > 0:41:54That doesn't give any kind of excuse to people outside or around
0:41:54 > 0:41:56politics to make the kind of direct we've seen.
0:41:56 > 0:41:57That is entirely unacceptable.
0:41:57 > 0:42:01But it's part of a broader picture.
0:42:01 > 0:42:07And I have to say that a significant part of the blame lies with parts
0:42:07 > 0:42:09of the Labour movement, the Momentum campaigns we saw
0:42:09 > 0:42:10during the campaign.
0:42:10 > 0:42:12We have seen some really brutal behaviour, threats
0:42:12 > 0:42:14to Conservative candidates, threats to family members
0:42:14 > 0:42:17of Conservative candidates.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20It is bringing a nastiness into our politics that we do not accept.
0:42:20 > 0:42:22So you think the headline was Labour's fault?
0:42:22 > 0:42:25Well, I think that what we've seen over the past few months,
0:42:25 > 0:42:31a large proportion of it has come from the left I'm afraid.
0:42:31 > 0:42:33A tone in our politics, a hostility, an unpleasantness,
0:42:33 > 0:42:35and frankly sometimes downright threatening behaviour
0:42:35 > 0:42:37that is unacceptable.
0:42:37 > 0:42:39It hasn't just been directed at us, it's been directed at moderate
0:42:39 > 0:42:41Labour MPs as well.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44Some of the ways in which they have been treated has been utterly
0:42:44 > 0:42:47unacceptable and we all need to work together across the political
0:42:47 > 0:42:48spectrum to stamp this out.
0:42:48 > 0:42:49Chris Grayling, thank you.
0:42:49 > 0:42:50You're welcome.
0:42:50 > 0:42:51That's all we've got time for tonight.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54And indeed that's it from Newsnight for this year.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57Evan - and the rest of the team - will be back to usher
0:42:57 > 0:42:59in 2018 on January 2nd.
0:42:59 > 0:43:01But until then, good night and good luck -
0:43:01 > 0:43:05or at least have a good break from all of us here.