0:00:05 > 0:00:13Spot the difference - new cabinet - old cabinet.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19Yes, we struggled as well.
0:00:19 > 0:00:25A two-day reshuffle, and quite a bit of a kerfuffle.
0:00:25 > 0:00:29But it leaves government disrupted but not altogether relaunched.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32The Prime Minister has been struggling with a pretty tough
0:00:32 > 0:00:36joint, that is raising questions about her mastery of some pretty
0:00:36 > 0:00:41basic skills.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45Was it much ado about nothing?
0:00:45 > 0:00:46Or can it reset the Conservative's overall direction?
0:00:46 > 0:00:49With talks between the north and south, we'll examine the search
0:00:49 > 0:00:51for peace on the Korean peninsula.
0:00:51 > 0:00:56In the Middle East we will examine Iran's foreign policy. It's accused
0:00:56 > 0:01:01of not searching for peace.Iranian expansionism is extraordinarily
0:01:01 > 0:01:05dangerous. First of all, they have Shia groups throughout the region
0:01:05 > 0:01:13they can rely on that they can, if you will, convert, or infiltrate.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Also tonight, Toby Young steps down.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18Virgin West Coast says it will no longer sell
0:01:18 > 0:01:20the Daily Mail on its trains.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22It seems a culture war is raging in the UK.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25James Delingpole and Paris Lees will tell us whether it needs to be
0:01:25 > 0:01:33conducted with quite so much vitriol.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Hello.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41It's done, after two days, government has been
0:01:41 > 0:01:42reshuffled and reshaped.
0:01:42 > 0:01:49124 jobs in government, including junior ministers and whips
0:01:49 > 0:01:52and all the hangers on - and about a third of those have
0:01:52 > 0:01:55been moved or are new.
0:01:55 > 0:02:02Including moves for some names you might recognise,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05including Jo Johnson and Rory Stewart who were shunted from jobs
0:02:05 > 0:02:07in their comfort zone, to jobs elsewhere.
0:02:07 > 0:02:08Two important critiques of the reshuffle are emerging
0:02:08 > 0:02:11though - the Prime Minister has said that it makes government look
0:02:11 > 0:02:15like the people it serves, but that is not quite true
0:02:15 > 0:02:18of the cabinet, which is a little more public school and a bit more
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Oxbridge than it was and has no more women in it.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23The other point, made by the Institute for Government,
0:02:23 > 0:02:25is about the disruption to business.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27In nearly every department, half or more of ministers have now
0:02:27 > 0:02:31been in their post for less than a year.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34The heart of government, which is the Cabinet Office will have
0:02:34 > 0:02:35an entirely new team.
0:02:35 > 0:02:36For what?
0:02:36 > 0:02:37Was it all worth it?
0:02:37 > 0:02:39Well, Nick Watt our political editor is here.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43Let's talk about the handling today, because yesterday it came in for
0:02:43 > 0:02:48quite a bit of criticism.It has been a tale of two reshuffles, there
0:02:48 > 0:02:51is a feeling in the Cabinet that yesterday, which was about the
0:02:51 > 0:02:54Cabinet, was not one of the Prime Minister's most glorious moments
0:02:54 > 0:02:59with those ministers resisting her. I've been hearing scathing words
0:02:59 > 0:03:03like chaotic, the Prime Minister has no authority, and she can't even
0:03:03 > 0:03:07sack people. That's the Cabinet. Today she had a much better story
0:03:07 > 0:03:11when she started moving through the junior and middle ranking levels of
0:03:11 > 0:03:14government and Downing Street is saying that the Prime Minister has
0:03:14 > 0:03:17created what they believe is one of the most diverse governments in the
0:03:17 > 0:03:24history of this country, 37 women ministers and nine ministers from
0:03:24 > 0:03:27black and minority ethnic backgrounds. I talked to a Cabinet
0:03:27 > 0:03:31minister who said look at the whips office, six recently elected women
0:03:31 > 0:03:34MPs brought into the whips office. They were saying it's not that long
0:03:34 > 0:03:39ago that there were no women in the whips office and it was run like a
0:03:39 > 0:03:42military operation, orders were barked. You can't do that in the
0:03:42 > 0:03:47modern world so this is a modern whips office.There were some
0:03:47 > 0:03:51strange moves, I mentioned Rory Stewart and Jo Johnson, people said
0:03:51 > 0:03:55wife move them from jobs that seemed to be jobs they were Afoa with two
0:03:55 > 0:04:03things that are not experts on.Some people are spotting a plot on the
0:04:03 > 0:04:07backbenches -- they were familiar with. What the Prime Minister did
0:04:07 > 0:04:11was create a praetorian guard around her and then clipped the wings of
0:04:11 > 0:04:15anyone who might possibly be seen as a potential challenger. Dominic
0:04:15 > 0:04:20Raab, given this important job as housing minister, but that is seen
0:04:20 > 0:04:24by these people as a hospital pass. Will he ever get to grips with this
0:04:24 > 0:04:27issue that nobody seems to get to grips with? Rory Stewart taken out
0:04:27 > 0:04:31of the comfort zone of Africa to the Ministry of Justice, somebody who
0:04:31 > 0:04:36made his name as a governor of an Iraqi province. And Justine
0:04:36 > 0:04:39Greening, comprehensive educated Yorkshire woman, given an offer
0:04:39 > 0:04:45yesterday that she couldn't take her mind off she goes. I've really been
0:04:45 > 0:04:49looking at what Theresa May was trying to achieve in this troubled
0:04:49 > 0:04:51reshuffle.
0:04:56 > 0:05:03Most prime ministers are reluctant butchers.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06butchers. Margaret Thatcher lamented how in her Downing Street years she
0:05:06 > 0:05:12had been obliged to learn the craft of carving the joint. So, just how
0:05:12 > 0:05:17skilled a butcher is Theresa May? Well, in this rather elongated
0:05:17 > 0:05:21reshuffle, she's been struggling with a pretty tough joint, and
0:05:21 > 0:05:26that's raising questions about her mastery of some pretty basic prime
0:05:26 > 0:05:34ministerial skills. If prime ministers red reshuffles so much,
0:05:34 > 0:05:38what exactly is Theresa May seeking to achieve here? Well, the answer
0:05:38 > 0:05:43lies in one date, June the 8th, the Prime Minister is seeking to respond
0:05:43 > 0:05:47to the Tories' surprise electoral setback by shifting the dial in
0:05:47 > 0:05:50three ways. In the first place, she wants to restore her own political
0:05:50 > 0:05:57authority. Then she wants to show a more diverse Conservative Party to
0:05:57 > 0:06:02the country. And finally, she wants to respond to the concerns of voters
0:06:02 > 0:06:09who gave the Tories such a bloody nose back in June.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12nose back in June. The Prime Minister gave the impression
0:06:12 > 0:06:16yesterday that she was unable to carve key sections of the joint
0:06:16 > 0:06:20after Cabinet ministers challenged some of her plans. Tory MPs claim
0:06:20 > 0:06:25that the reshuffle has exposed grave weaknesses in her operation, though
0:06:25 > 0:06:32MPs now say she did stage a strong recovery today.Expectations were
0:06:32 > 0:06:35far too high on the run in because I always thought it would be a
0:06:35 > 0:06:39moderate reshuffle, only two or three jobs needed changing. Every
0:06:39 > 0:06:42reshuffle I'd ever seen hits a problem somewhere when administered
0:06:42 > 0:06:45doesn't want to go somewhere and they want to keep them in the
0:06:45 > 0:06:52Cabinet, which happened here. -- when a minister.Suella Fernandes,
0:06:52 > 0:06:57who has coordinated the main backbench Brexit group takes her
0:06:57 > 0:07:02first step on the ministerial ladder in the Brexit department. Other new
0:07:02 > 0:07:05ministers include the QC Lucy Frazer, who becomes a justice
0:07:05 > 0:07:09minister and a former entrepreneur Rishi Sunak, who joins the housing
0:07:09 > 0:07:14ministry. The Prime Minister invited a record number of women appointed
0:07:14 > 0:07:19to the whips office to Downing Street, and No 10 says Theresa May
0:07:19 > 0:07:23has created one of the most diverse governments ever with 37 women and
0:07:23 > 0:07:30nine ministers from minority ethnic backgrounds.It's probably the most
0:07:30 > 0:07:36diverse governments Britain has ever had, that's a good thing. But more
0:07:36 > 0:07:40importantly, the reshuffle is pretty much over, senior Cabinet level
0:07:40 > 0:07:43right the way through to junior ministerial roles, we've got some
0:07:43 > 0:07:50really good high-quality people.
0:07:50 > 0:07:52really good high-quality people.The Tories were shaken by the way in
0:07:52 > 0:07:57which voters from their mid-40s downwards preferred Labour in the
0:07:57 > 0:08:01election, with concerns over housing a key grievance amongst younger
0:08:01 > 0:08:05voters, there is a renewed focus on this in a newly rebranded
0:08:05 > 0:08:09department. All age groups in that election will also alarmed by the
0:08:09 > 0:08:13confusion over social care, so Jeremy Hunt takes overall control of
0:08:13 > 0:08:18that policy. The challenge will be to show that these changes amount to
0:08:18 > 0:08:24more than shiny new departmental nameplates. While the Prime Minister
0:08:24 > 0:08:28has been panned for tinkering with her Cabinet, in this reshuffle she
0:08:28 > 0:08:34has gone further than the limited changes she made in the summer. So,
0:08:34 > 0:08:38progress since her Midsummer nightmare when her first priority
0:08:38 > 0:08:43was survival. But this is still not Theresa May's ideal reshuffle. Had
0:08:43 > 0:08:47she done better in the general election there would have been
0:08:47 > 0:08:52changes at the most senior level of the Cabinet. The Prime Minister tied
0:08:52 > 0:08:55up the loose ends of her reshuffle this evening. The troubled Cabinet
0:08:55 > 0:09:00changes show Theresa May cannot altogether escape the shadow of the
0:09:00 > 0:09:04election but at junior levels there was a more decisive Prime Minister
0:09:04 > 0:09:11on display. Nick Watt with an Atkins diet metaphor as well.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14I'm joined by Kelly Tolhurst, Tory MP for Rochester
0:09:14 > 0:09:16in Kent and as of today an assistant government whip.
0:09:16 > 0:09:20One of those ones that Nick was referring to earlier.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23And in a moment I'll be speaking to Camilla Cavendish,
0:09:23 > 0:09:25director of the 10 Downing Street policy unit under David Cameron
0:09:25 > 0:09:27and to the journalist Paul Mason.
0:09:27 > 0:09:34Good evening to you all. Kelly, can we start with you? It's interesting
0:09:34 > 0:09:38they have put you up, the government have chosen to put you up to speak
0:09:38 > 0:09:41for the government today, working-class background, not one of
0:09:41 > 0:09:46these Oxbridge posh boys in the Cabinet, do you think this is a time
0:09:46 > 0:09:52for the party to try and put forward a different face?Well, I think, for
0:09:52 > 0:09:55me, I'm a conservative and always have been and I have become a
0:09:55 > 0:09:59Conservative MP, and for me I think the last two days, especially what
0:09:59 > 0:10:03has happened today, has shown really what the true Conservative
0:10:03 > 0:10:07Parliamentary party now is, and they do include people like myself, and
0:10:07 > 0:10:10it's been really good to be given the opportunity to go into the whips
0:10:10 > 0:10:14office this afternoon.Theresa May explicitly said one of the
0:10:14 > 0:10:17objectives and achievements of this was to create a government that
0:10:17 > 0:10:23looks more like the country serves. Last count there were more than 30,
0:10:23 > 0:10:2730 5% women in the country. Are you happy with the way that's gone?I
0:10:27 > 0:10:34think we have got record numbers for us women into government positions
0:10:34 > 0:10:38-- 35%. Is more reflective of the people we serve. It's true we need
0:10:38 > 0:10:41to do more but today is a great step forward and I think with what's
0:10:41 > 0:10:45happened in the whips office, it is a real indicator to show that that's
0:10:45 > 0:10:50changing.In fairness, you don't really get to speak on any issue in
0:10:50 > 0:10:55the whips office. Cabinet average age, 51, it was 52, not much
0:10:55 > 0:11:01changed. In the Cabinet there is want black or ethnic minority member
0:11:01 > 0:11:06of the Cabinet. 48% Oxbridge, 34% went to a public school. Does it
0:11:06 > 0:11:09make sense to sort of shout about how you are creating a government
0:11:09 > 0:11:15that looks like the country serves, if you've got 34% public school
0:11:15 > 0:11:20people in the Cabinet, 48% Oxbridge? Is that a thing to shout about?
0:11:20 > 0:11:24Well, I think we need to look at the government positions as a whole, and
0:11:24 > 0:11:29also look at the people that came in in 2015 and have come in this year,
0:11:29 > 0:11:34and myself, having not been to university, and had the
0:11:34 > 0:11:38opportunities to work hard, and to become a member of Parliament, there
0:11:38 > 0:11:42are more people like me that came in in 2015 and I think if you look at
0:11:42 > 0:11:46this as a whole we are from a more diverse background, therefore I do
0:11:46 > 0:11:51think some of the changes are reflected.Is your line that this
0:11:51 > 0:11:54will pass through? That the Conservative Party, at the moment
0:11:54 > 0:12:01boasting around done about its government's representative nurse
0:12:01 > 0:12:09when it is half public school?The parliament to party has changed
0:12:09 > 0:12:17significantly in the last two years with the 2015 intake and 17. Today's
0:12:17 > 0:12:21appointments have made a difference and I think we are moving forward.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23The big mission is about rejuvenating this government, we
0:12:23 > 0:12:27know Brexit has got to be done and Theresa May wants to move beyond
0:12:27 > 0:12:31Brexit. In a couple of sentences, what is the big idea, apart from
0:12:31 > 0:12:37Brexit? What are you going to do? Well, the government is committed to
0:12:37 > 0:12:40delivering Brexit, it's massively important.Apart from Brexit?My
0:12:40 > 0:12:43constituency is still the focus but we have also said, and Theresa May
0:12:43 > 0:12:47has been clear, we cannot forget that domestic agenda and there are
0:12:47 > 0:12:52things like the NHS, the environment.What are you going to
0:12:52 > 0:12:56do?Well, one of the things we are doing is focusing, as you know, we
0:12:56 > 0:12:59have been speaking about the NHS and winter crisis over the last couple
0:12:59 > 0:13:07of days. It is something we are looking at.Kelly, I'm so sorry, but
0:13:07 > 0:13:11speaking about the NHS... You are struggling to say what the big
0:13:11 > 0:13:16mission is. There must be some sort of... Has the party been told this
0:13:16 > 0:13:20is what our priority is? Reinventing capitalism and we are going to do
0:13:20 > 0:13:24these 100 things, or build a powerhouse in the North? Saying we
0:13:24 > 0:13:29are going to talk about the NHS. It's one of the things that matter
0:13:29 > 0:13:32to the people of this country and one of the things about this Cabinet
0:13:32 > 0:13:40reshuffle has been about having the reshuffle and being very clear, the
0:13:40 > 0:13:43Prime Minister has been very clear about what she wants to deliver.
0:13:43 > 0:13:48It's not just Brexit, absolutely, it is still the main focus, but it is
0:13:48 > 0:13:52around working towards those things that matter to people domestic is.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55With the greatest respect, I've tried giving you a chance to say
0:13:55 > 0:13:59what the mission is, and the fact that you are sort of struggling to
0:13:59 > 0:14:05say what it is, or am I just being unfair?Well, I think maybe you're
0:14:05 > 0:14:08being unfair? We've been clear about what we want to do, there are key
0:14:08 > 0:14:12thing is, we can list them for you, we need to make sure the economy
0:14:12 > 0:14:17continues to grow, we want people to be getting opportunities to have
0:14:17 > 0:14:20better paid jobs. We've had the industrial strategy just recently
0:14:20 > 0:14:23announced. That is massively important for certain areas of the
0:14:23 > 0:14:29United Kingdom and the economy. The NHS is included in that. There are a
0:14:29 > 0:14:32number of things that we have been clear on and our Prime Minister has
0:14:32 > 0:14:36been very clear about command the last two days and changes that have
0:14:36 > 0:14:40been made will hopefully drive forward.Please stay there. Let me
0:14:40 > 0:14:44turn to our other two guests because the big question is, does this reset
0:14:44 > 0:14:50the Conservative Party?
0:14:50 > 0:14:59No. I think today was better than yesterday. What this reflects is, we
0:14:59 > 0:15:02have a Prime Minister leading a minority government. She was never
0:15:02 > 0:15:08going to be able to do a reshuffle. They have to fill in the gaps in the
0:15:08 > 0:15:12domestic policy agenda and make good on the speech she made at the
0:15:12 > 0:15:15beginning of this about social justice and managing that. That
0:15:15 > 0:15:20means they have to do much more on housing. To be great if they could
0:15:20 > 0:15:25integrate the NHS and social care. There are a whole series of
0:15:25 > 0:15:28unfinished things that need to be done, partly because of Brexit but
0:15:28 > 0:15:34partly because of drift. Whitehall have been virtually frozen for 18
0:15:34 > 0:15:40months. The question about this we shuffle is, can some of these
0:15:40 > 0:15:45people... Some of the junior people are really good. Can they unfreeze
0:15:45 > 0:15:52the system or is the shadow of Brexit going to loom over them?I
0:15:52 > 0:15:59congratulate Theresa May for appointing a diverse junior layer of
0:15:59 > 0:16:03the Cabinet. They will find out how little power you have as a junior
0:16:03 > 0:16:07minister but how hard it is to get things done if you are not part of
0:16:07 > 0:16:14the inner elite that runs Britain, from which the core of the front
0:16:14 > 0:16:18bench is drawn. The Oxbridge set of people. They don't just wield
0:16:18 > 0:16:24political power, they wheeled social power. The whole Toby Young episode.
0:16:24 > 0:16:29This is like the BBC.We did a survey on this programme and it was
0:16:29 > 0:16:34worse when I worked here. This was an attempt by Joe Johnson to stick
0:16:34 > 0:16:40it to student unions and have a good go at them, like Donald Trump, and
0:16:40 > 0:16:45have a go at them on the right wing agenda. That is the agenda of the
0:16:45 > 0:16:51elite Tory Party we are dealing with. Welcome to reality for all the
0:16:51 > 0:16:56black ethnic minority and women who want to bring the real world into
0:16:56 > 0:17:05the Tory world.Can I just butting on Matt? That is not the party I
0:17:05 > 0:17:12recognised. -- but in on that. I don't recognise your sort of
0:17:12 > 0:17:18analysis on it. As a backbencher I have had many opportunities to
0:17:18 > 0:17:28influence from within.I don't want to only talk about this. The
0:17:28 > 0:17:33handling of the reshuffle, the fact that it was perceived to be boxed
0:17:33 > 0:17:38yesterday, what does it tell us about the Downing Street operation?
0:17:38 > 0:17:43There was a famous story about Tony Blair and a guy I have forgotten.
0:17:43 > 0:17:50Moving round the whiteboard and his name came off. He never got into the
0:17:50 > 0:17:56Cabinet because his name fell off. That said, the media management was
0:17:56 > 0:18:02a bit surprising. Theresa May as Home Secretary I always admired. She
0:18:02 > 0:18:05did not like all this presentation stuff will stop when you get into
0:18:05 > 0:18:11Number 10 you need to do the stuff properly. Unfortunately they
0:18:11 > 0:18:14oversold the idea that big beasts would be moved in this be a huge
0:18:14 > 0:18:21clear out of the new generation. She has not brought in Mercer, who is
0:18:21 > 0:18:28regarded as a future leader. It looks a bit limp.Where does Theresa
0:18:28 > 0:18:34May go from here?The problem she has is it is an Administration pulls
0:18:34 > 0:18:38that you need an overarching, moral purpose. She cannot write the idea
0:18:38 > 0:18:43down which is what does Britain looks like after Brexit? The cabinet
0:18:43 > 0:18:50would split you can do more if you have a moral purpose. The problem is
0:18:50 > 0:18:54identifying just about struggling people, managing people, is not
0:18:54 > 0:18:58identify what you will do for them. Right now we all know you are
0:18:58 > 0:19:03absolutely right to raise the NHS, it is on everybody's minds. The guy
0:19:03 > 0:19:10who is overseen that is not a has overseen the cancellation of
0:19:10 > 0:19:12non-urgent operations was reappointed with more power because
0:19:12 > 0:19:17Theresa May did not have enough power to sack him. Insofar as people
0:19:17 > 0:19:22are seeing politics, no one is obsessed with who is a junior
0:19:22 > 0:19:27minister but they are concerned that relatives being left on trolleys and
0:19:27 > 0:19:37being made to wait in waiting rooms. That was done by NHS England.That
0:19:37 > 0:19:45is the sort of human shield for the Government, isn't it?Because of the
0:19:45 > 0:19:50act in 2012 Jeremy Hunt had less power than he would normally have.
0:19:50 > 0:19:56You have to integrate the NHS...How long have they been in power to do
0:19:56 > 0:20:03that?It is whether the budget and the money will move...Would you
0:20:03 > 0:20:06like the idea of combining, integrating the health and social
0:20:06 > 0:20:12care? That was in the name they gave Jeremy Hunt yesterday. Is it just a
0:20:12 > 0:20:18name or something
0:20:18 > 0:20:20name or something substantive going on?It was right that change was
0:20:20 > 0:20:23made. There is a correlation between the two and the two have to work
0:20:23 > 0:20:28together. The biggest challenge we have as the NHS, as the population
0:20:28 > 0:20:35grows and the treatment gets better, the pressures on the NHS continue.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39Going forward we are looking at those areas combining and the Health
0:20:39 > 0:20:43Secretary has an opportunity to make the changes where he feels he is
0:20:43 > 0:20:49needed.We really do need to leave it there. Thank you.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51It's been a busy day in Panmunjom, the so-called "peace village"
0:20:51 > 0:20:53in the demilitarised zone on the border of North
0:20:53 > 0:20:55and South Korea.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57There have been talks there today, between the two
0:20:57 > 0:20:59countries and they appear to have gone smoothly.
0:20:59 > 0:21:00Five officials on each side attended, apparently
0:21:00 > 0:21:03with a CCTV feed to the leaders of the countries.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05Now when enemies want to bury the hatchet, they often start
0:21:05 > 0:21:07with little gestures, and avoid raising the things
0:21:07 > 0:21:08that have divided them.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11So it is with the North and South, not agreeing the big stuff,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13that North will throw away its nuclear weapons.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16But agreeing that the North will take part in the
0:21:16 > 0:21:17forthcoming winter Olympics.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21There was more to it than that - but is it a real step to stability?
0:21:21 > 0:21:24Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban reports.
0:21:24 > 0:21:29Well, this is something, surely, a thaw of sorts.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33Face to face talks, the commitment from the North to
0:21:33 > 0:21:35send cheerleaders and athletes to the Winter Olympics, and a
0:21:35 > 0:21:43resumption of schemes to reunify families divided by the Korean War.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Kim Jong-un is on a charm offensive.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50The Panmunjom talks are the only game in town right now.
0:21:50 > 0:21:53And I think the South Koreans would do well to try
0:21:53 > 0:21:54to keep them going.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58There are a lot of issues that are Peninsula issues and that the US
0:21:58 > 0:22:02should be careful not to appear to be thwarting.
0:22:02 > 0:22:06If there's a perception in South Korea that the US is
0:22:06 > 0:22:09keeping South Korea away from its northern cousins
0:22:09 > 0:22:12for the purpose of family reunification and issues like
0:22:12 > 0:22:15that I don't think that will help the US.
0:22:15 > 0:22:21With just a couple of days until the opening of the Winter
0:22:21 > 0:22:24games in South Korea the venues are ready in the world is watching.
0:22:24 > 0:22:26North Korea now says it will send delegates,
0:22:26 > 0:22:30as it did to the 2006 Olympics and World Cup.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33And for the south this is a timely gesture that
0:22:33 > 0:22:39just might unlock the bigger issues at stake.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43I believe we can make the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics as a
0:22:43 > 0:22:51kind of turning point in the escalating tension on the Korean
0:22:53 > 0:22:54peninsula and engaging in a direct dialogue
0:22:54 > 0:22:56and exchanges with the
0:22:56 > 0:22:59North, and further creating an environment conducive to more
0:22:59 > 0:23:04serious negotiation on nuclear and ballistic missile issues.
0:23:04 > 0:23:07But lest we thought peace was about to break
0:23:07 > 0:23:10out, North Korean officials delivered another message today,
0:23:10 > 0:23:14telling southern counterparts that Kim's nuclear weapons target only
0:23:14 > 0:23:19America and not the South.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22A version of an old mantra designed to sow
0:23:22 > 0:23:26divisions between America and its Korean ally.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29I think it's a pretty typical ploy.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32You have to bear in mind the North Korean view of South
0:23:32 > 0:23:40Korea - South Koreans are great except that they are dominated by
0:23:40 > 0:23:45their puppet master, the United States, and don't stomach
0:23:45 > 0:23:47if only the puppet master were removed,
0:23:47 > 0:23:51South Korea and North Korea would have a terrific relationship.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54But if the Americans are suspicious, what about Moon Jae-in,
0:23:54 > 0:23:59South Korea's President and long an advocate
0:23:59 > 0:24:00of better relations with the North?
0:24:00 > 0:24:03The South Korean President Moon has for decades been for improved
0:24:03 > 0:24:04relations between North and South, for
0:24:04 > 0:24:07engagement between North and South, which is very much on a different
0:24:07 > 0:24:09page than President Trump and his preference for maximum
0:24:09 > 0:24:12pressure on North Korea.
0:24:12 > 0:24:20Today's North Korean initiative hasn't met with universal approval.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25Even in the South, where some people demonstrated against
0:24:25 > 0:24:27improved relations.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29When the Winter Olympics are over the nuclear issue will
0:24:29 > 0:24:33remain unsolved, the Korean peninsula on the brink.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37We live in divided times: anyone who peruses social media will see
0:24:37 > 0:24:41a clash of values play out daily in vicious zero sum argument,
0:24:41 > 0:24:42on any number of issues.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44Today's examples?
0:24:44 > 0:24:46One was the right wing controversialist Toby Young stepping
0:24:46 > 0:24:49back from his appointment on the board of the new English
0:24:49 > 0:24:50university regulator, the Office for Students.
0:24:50 > 0:24:52Having spent a decade trying to be controversial,
0:24:52 > 0:24:54he turned out to be too controversial for
0:24:54 > 0:24:55a public appointment.
0:24:55 > 0:24:59The second story was Virgin West Coast trains,
0:24:59 > 0:25:07stopping its sales of the Daily Mail.
0:25:10 > 0:25:12"We've decided that this paper is not compatible
0:25:12 > 0:25:13with the Virgin Trains
0:25:13 > 0:25:15brand and our beliefs," the company said.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18It did also point out that it barely sells any copies anyway.
0:25:18 > 0:25:19The Mail called the decision disgraceful.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21While very different, the two stories are just today's
0:25:21 > 0:25:24examples of a culture war that is currently being fought
0:25:24 > 0:25:25on social media and beyond.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27What characterises the culture war is its preoccupation with words
0:25:27 > 0:25:30and gestures.
0:25:30 > 0:25:38Toby Young for example is on one side of it -
0:25:38 > 0:25:41a self proclaimed provocateur.
0:25:41 > 0:25:43To be frank, he probably didn't even believe half the obnoxious stuff
0:25:43 > 0:25:46he wrote, he just wanted to offend what he saw as
0:25:46 > 0:25:47mainstream opinion.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49He's the personification of the conduct of
0:25:49 > 0:25:50the culture war under way.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52At times he's been vitriolic, relishing a
0:25:52 > 0:25:53fight with those on the other side.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56If that can be said of those on the provocative right,
0:25:56 > 0:26:00is it the same on the progressive side as well?
0:26:00 > 0:26:02Over in the US, Google are being sued by
0:26:02 > 0:26:05James Damore, the coder sacked after writing
0:26:05 > 0:26:09a controversial - not very PC - memo, critiquing
0:26:09 > 0:26:11the company's diversity policy.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14He said he and others had been discriminated
0:26:14 > 0:26:16against as white males.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18Certainly he was vilified on social media for
0:26:18 > 0:26:20saying and thinking the wrong thing.
0:26:20 > 0:26:24It's seen by the right as a case of the left's intolerance.
0:26:24 > 0:26:26Every day these kinds of arguments are
0:26:26 > 0:26:30erupting, even where they don't need to.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34Like Virgin - they're not banning customers from bringing their own
0:26:34 > 0:26:36copies of the Daily Mail on to their trains, obviously,
0:26:36 > 0:26:40but just find the decision not to sell the Mail in terms
0:26:40 > 0:26:43of politics rather than commerce ramped this up
0:26:43 > 0:26:50as another divisive issue.
0:26:50 > 0:26:51-- justifying the decision.
0:26:51 > 0:26:53Again, on social media, the debate polarised
0:26:53 > 0:26:54around extreme positions expressed strongly.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56Each side's undoubtedly sincere in its thoughts and really
0:26:56 > 0:27:01believes the other is a threat to either decency or free speech.
0:27:01 > 0:27:07But is the virulent argument a healthy sign or a vibrant
0:27:07 > 0:27:12debate, or a sign that shared values have more or less evaporated?
0:27:12 > 0:27:14Build that wall.
0:27:16 > 0:27:19Build that wall.
0:27:22 > 0:27:28Build that wall.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30Paris Lees is a broadcaster and equality campaigner.
0:27:30 > 0:27:38James Delingpole is a columnist at The Spectator.
0:27:40 > 0:27:45James, Toby Young. He tries to be controversial. He cannot be
0:27:45 > 0:27:49surprised people say we do not want to on a public body.I don't think
0:27:49 > 0:27:56Toby Binks, how can I be controversial today? He just reacts
0:27:56 > 0:28:03in the moment -- thinks. We react. We get an instant thought and think,
0:28:03 > 0:28:08I will type this out on Twitter. The feeling dissipates when to have got
0:28:08 > 0:28:12the words out. We do not set out to be deliberately offensive most of
0:28:12 > 0:28:20the time.Do you think he has been badly treated?We are talking about
0:28:20 > 0:28:26the separate issues. Does Toby Young says some spicy things on twitter?
0:28:26 > 0:28:32Yes, he does. Should Toby be on the office for students board, yes he
0:28:32 > 0:28:36should. They are completely different things he has worked in
0:28:36 > 0:28:42the educational sector and is a good man for the job.Do you see some
0:28:42 > 0:28:46value in provocative is trying to challenge your views and those of
0:28:46 > 0:28:52your friends, who probably think quite alike on most of these issues?
0:28:52 > 0:28:56Absolutely. I have written things which people were deemed to be
0:28:56 > 0:29:00provocative in the past. The idea that Toby Young does not set out to
0:29:00 > 0:29:07do that. This man published Julie Birtles rant about transsexuals as
0:29:07 > 0:29:16Dix in chicks clothing. We know 45% of trans people in the UK have
0:29:16 > 0:29:20attempted suicide. Are we saying it is OK to bully people? No. I'm glad
0:29:20 > 0:29:27people are waking up to that.Can I ask you about the manners? I'm
0:29:27 > 0:29:31looking at some of your stuff or. It is not very well mannered. Would you
0:29:31 > 0:29:35agree?
0:29:35 > 0:29:39The terrible thing is that secretly in the green room before we came on
0:29:39 > 0:29:44Paris and I have been getting on like of dumb at a house on fire.
0:29:44 > 0:29:49Forget about Paris.Probably our natural mode in her life is we are
0:29:49 > 0:29:55delightful people but sometimes maybe Twitter brings out our kind of
0:29:55 > 0:30:00edgier side.Do you stand by what you put on Twitter? I will take one
0:30:00 > 0:30:07example, when are we allowed to say that Brendan Cox is a total cars?
0:30:07 > 0:30:12That was December, six months after his wife was assassinated.He
0:30:12 > 0:30:16probably said something to provoke that, this is just my policy, I
0:30:16 > 0:30:21cannot speak for Paris. My policy is if somebody says something really,
0:30:21 > 0:30:26really stupid then I am going to call them on it.Can't you be well
0:30:26 > 0:30:31mannered? Understand where they are coming from and correct them. One
0:30:31 > 0:30:35thing that characterises all of this is people going from zero to
0:30:35 > 0:30:38shouting and angry and swearing without the steps in between.In the
0:30:38 > 0:30:43great scheme of things, how bad is calling somebody that?This is
0:30:43 > 0:30:46something I've been thinking about recently in the sense of being
0:30:46 > 0:30:51complicit in this. People would regard me as quite a hostile angry
0:30:51 > 0:30:58person. You know, I've called people that they get before and said things
0:30:58 > 0:31:01that maybe I've regretted, and I think that actually it is going a
0:31:01 > 0:31:05bit far actually and I think people are getting really polarised and I
0:31:05 > 0:31:10think we all need to look at our role within that and how we have let
0:31:10 > 0:31:15it get this bad.The key thing, you've taken great joy today in the
0:31:15 > 0:31:19fact the Daily Mail isn't on Virgin Trains.It's fantastic.You are sort
0:31:19 > 0:31:24of cheering and clapping. Have you ever tried to reach out to any of
0:31:24 > 0:31:28the readers, it's one of the most widely read papers in the UK, to
0:31:28 > 0:31:31save let me understand where you are coming from as well as you
0:31:31 > 0:31:39understand where I'm coming from?I have co-founded all about trans when
0:31:39 > 0:31:43we take young trans people to meet people in the media, often times
0:31:43 > 0:31:47people that produce shows like this. That's you trying to get them to
0:31:47 > 0:31:50understand you, I've asked whether you have tried to understand them.
0:31:50 > 0:31:54Of course, when we come to meet them we are trying to see what their
0:31:54 > 0:31:58level of understanding is.But what about your understanding of them?Of
0:31:58 > 0:32:01course we are trying to understand where they are coming from and
0:32:01 > 0:32:04trying to further the conversation and realise what their awareness is.
0:32:04 > 0:32:10Let me put the same question to you, James. Do you ever seriously try and
0:32:10 > 0:32:14engage with anyone who thinks differently to you?We need to
0:32:14 > 0:32:17differentiate between on a personal level, should we all get along, you
0:32:17 > 0:32:22know, when we meet somebody at Glastonbury, having a joint with
0:32:22 > 0:32:28them, yeah, peace and love, man. At its very, very silly to imagine that
0:32:28 > 0:32:33if only we all agreed and got along somewhere in the squishy middle the
0:32:33 > 0:32:36world would be a better place. There are certain issues in the world
0:32:36 > 0:32:41where there are very different views. On the economy, for example,
0:32:41 > 0:32:44on the size of government, on what to do about immigration. You are
0:32:44 > 0:32:48never going to get this neutral point in the middle where the
0:32:48 > 0:32:53rightness and truth is.I'm sorry, we have to leave it, you've had a
0:32:53 > 0:32:59constructive debate. We overran on the first discussion. Thank you,
0:32:59 > 0:32:59both.
0:32:59 > 0:33:01This could be a decisive year for Iran.
0:33:01 > 0:33:03It started with protests that spread across the country -
0:33:03 > 0:33:06and although the authorities say they are waning, they have taken
0:33:06 > 0:33:09some extreme steps to try and douse down the flames of discontent -
0:33:09 > 0:33:11blocking access to the messaging app, Telegram and making
0:33:11 > 0:33:13thousands of arrests.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16Now, one trigger for those protests was a leaked government budget
0:33:16 > 0:33:19which cuts subsidies and hikes up fuel prices, while significantly
0:33:19 > 0:33:24increasing military spending.
0:33:24 > 0:33:27Iran is ramping up financial support to proxies across the region,
0:33:27 > 0:33:31which has fuelled the anger of some Iranians concerned about the state
0:33:31 > 0:33:33of their own economy - and fuelled anxieties across much
0:33:33 > 0:33:34of the world.
0:33:34 > 0:33:39BBC Persian's Jiyar Gol now investigates.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42In towns and cities across Iran, poverty, unemployment and corruption
0:33:42 > 0:33:45has drawn tens of thousands to the streets to protest
0:33:45 > 0:33:51against the Islamic regime.
0:33:51 > 0:33:55These are not the only reasons for the protests.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58There is also disquiet about the billions spent on Iran's
0:33:58 > 0:34:02foreign adventurism.
0:34:02 > 0:34:04"No to interference in Lebanon," they are chancing.
0:34:04 > 0:34:11"No to Gaza."
0:34:11 > 0:34:14-- chanting.
0:34:14 > 0:34:15"Leave Syria."
0:34:15 > 0:34:17"Think of us."
0:34:17 > 0:34:19The supreme leader lives like a god.
0:34:19 > 0:34:21We, the people, live like beggars.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23Over the past three decades, Iran has spent billions
0:34:23 > 0:34:25of dollars in an attempt to increase its influence
0:34:25 > 0:34:32in the region.
0:34:32 > 0:34:35Tehran now controls a route all the way to the Mediterranean
0:34:35 > 0:34:41via Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.
0:34:41 > 0:34:44And Iran is involved in a devastating proxy war
0:34:44 > 0:34:45with Saudi Arabia in Yemen.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49The Iranian expansionism is extraordinarily dangerous.
0:34:49 > 0:34:57First of all, they have Shia groups throughout
0:34:57 > 0:35:00the region they can rely on, that they can, if you will,
0:35:00 > 0:35:01convert or infiltrate.
0:35:01 > 0:35:03And the man responsible for Iran's military
0:35:03 > 0:35:08operations in the Middle East is General Qasem Soleimani,
0:35:08 > 0:35:10the commander of the elite Qods Force, a unit of
0:35:10 > 0:35:12Iran's Revolutionary Guard, which operates on foreign soil,
0:35:12 > 0:35:15organising training and funding militia groups.
0:35:15 > 0:35:20A man feared by many and labelled as a supporter
0:35:20 > 0:35:24of terrorism by the US, General Solemani, who once
0:35:24 > 0:35:26operated in the shadows, is now one of the most powerful
0:35:26 > 0:35:30commanders in the region.
0:35:30 > 0:35:32He played Al-Qaeda.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34He was the man in charge all the way through.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36He was always one step ahead of them.
0:35:36 > 0:35:37He used them.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41They helped him, in his regional designs on where he wanted to go
0:35:41 > 0:35:44with the Qods Force and Iran.
0:35:45 > 0:35:49To understand the power and influence of General Solemani
0:35:49 > 0:35:54and the Qods Force, you have to go to the Iran/Iraq border.
0:35:54 > 0:35:56In 2001, when the US attacked Afghanistan,
0:35:56 > 0:35:58many Al-Qaeda members came to this mountainous area to
0:35:58 > 0:36:04establish a foothold.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07They set up bases but, two years later, they were bombed by the US.
0:36:07 > 0:36:15This man is one of the prominent members of the local Sufi Order,
0:36:16 > 0:36:23a peaceful branch of Islam.
0:36:25 > 0:36:29He claims Iran assisted this Sunni extremists
0:36:29 > 0:36:31He claims Iran assisted the Sunni extremists
0:36:31 > 0:36:34who survived the bombings.
0:36:47 > 0:36:53But, why would a Sunni extremist group like Al-Qaeda,
0:36:53 > 0:37:00an arch enemy of Shia Iran, cooperate with Qasem Soleimani?
0:37:00 > 0:37:03Cathy Scott-Clark has interviewed former Al-Qaeda members,
0:37:03 > 0:37:08who lived Iran, about their dealings with Qods Force.
0:37:08 > 0:37:10Iran was an enemy of America.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13Iran was nearby.
0:37:13 > 0:37:19The people who negotiated from the Al-Qaeda side believed that
0:37:19 > 0:37:22Iran, the Qods Force, saw this as an opportunity,
0:37:22 > 0:37:24a) to know where the Al-Qaeda members were.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27If you know where they are, and you are controlling them,
0:37:27 > 0:37:29then you can use them.
0:37:29 > 0:37:32CIA documents declassified in November which were recovered
0:37:32 > 0:37:35from Osama Bin Laden's compound in Pakistan shed a new light on how
0:37:35 > 0:37:43Iran helped Al-Qaeda against the US in Iraq.
0:37:45 > 0:37:47Some of those documents suggest Iran has had a pragmatic
0:37:47 > 0:37:55relationship with Al-Qaeda.
0:37:55 > 0:37:57The documents suggest Iran and Al-Qaeda had been helping each
0:37:57 > 0:38:02other in Syria and Iraq.
0:38:02 > 0:38:06In 2011, when President Obama pulled out from Iraq, I was in Baghdad.
0:38:06 > 0:38:10The next day, the picture of Iran's supreme leader was posted
0:38:10 > 0:38:14in Baghdad's main square.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16Most Shia militias were more loyal to Qasem Soleimani
0:38:16 > 0:38:21than the Iraqi government.
0:38:21 > 0:38:25Vali Nasr is an academic and former foreign policy adviser to President
0:38:25 > 0:38:28Obama's Administration on Iran.
0:38:28 > 0:38:36Part of why Iran has been so successful in the region
0:38:36 > 0:38:38is because they've played this game of manoeuvring between different
0:38:38 > 0:38:41factions, relying on the one that is most naturally
0:38:41 > 0:38:43their constituency but yet build relations with the other side,
0:38:43 > 0:38:46play them against one another.
0:38:46 > 0:38:50In October, Qasem Soleimani's father passed away.
0:38:50 > 0:38:58We examined the footage and pictures of the funeral,
0:38:58 > 0:39:02just to understand what kind of people attended the funeral.
0:39:02 > 0:39:08For example, one of them was the leader of Shia militias in Iran.
0:39:08 > 0:39:14Another person was a representative of Hamas.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16Many other people attended to express their condolences
0:39:16 > 0:39:18in person to him.
0:39:18 > 0:39:26It shows how powerful and influential he is.
0:39:28 > 0:39:33General Soleimani financed, trained and equipped thousands
0:39:33 > 0:39:35of Shia militias to support Iran's allies in Syria and Iraq,
0:39:35 > 0:39:37including Lebanese Hezbollah, a group which is also
0:39:37 > 0:39:42on the US terrorist list.
0:39:42 > 0:39:49Its leader says Iran pays the bill.
0:40:10 > 0:40:15It's been estimated that Iran has spent $6 billion annually
0:40:15 > 0:40:22on the Syrian regime, basically, to keep it afloat.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25This is a conservative estimate on the proxy group,
0:40:25 > 0:40:30the Lebanese Hezbollah.
0:40:30 > 0:40:36Iran is estimated to be allocating $1 billion
0:40:36 > 0:40:38a year to the group, mostly according to Israeli
0:40:38 > 0:40:44intelligence forces.
0:40:44 > 0:40:48General Soleimani says, if Iran does not engage with enemies
0:40:48 > 0:40:51outside the country's borders, it will have to fight them
0:40:51 > 0:40:53in the streets of Tehran.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57As he tells his fighters on the Syrian front line,
0:40:57 > 0:41:05he is committed to expanding Iran's regional influence.
0:41:17 > 0:41:19But, at home, protesters on the streets are tearing down
0:41:19 > 0:41:23General Soleimani's banner.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26They are warning the tens of billions of dollars spent
0:41:26 > 0:41:28propping up Assad in Syria and financing Shia militias
0:41:28 > 0:41:30across the Middle East must be invested in their country
0:41:30 > 0:41:38and their future.
0:41:38 > 0:41:41We asked to speak to the Iranian government about this report
0:41:41 > 0:41:47but they declined to comment.
0:41:47 > 0:41:51That's all we have time for. We expected James Delingpole and Paris
0:41:51 > 0:41:55Lees to be at each other's throats but I think they are fixing dinner
0:41:55 > 0:41:59together in the green room. Gemili will be here tomorrow. Have a very
0:41:59 > 0:42:05good night.