0:00:05 > 0:00:09The President of the United States uses the crudest of language
0:00:09 > 0:00:13to dismiss immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and parts of Africa
0:00:13 > 0:00:17before calling for more immigration from Norway instead.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20Today he went off for his annual medical exam as his alleged words
0:00:20 > 0:00:24quickly wound up in the Wall Street Journal.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26We'll ask the African Union's ambassador to Washington
0:00:26 > 0:00:29if the President is just a straightforward racist.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Also tonight, guess who's had an epiphany?
0:00:32 > 0:00:35People will see more posts from people they are connected to and
0:00:35 > 0:00:37less content from publishers.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41Facebook was built to connect you to the stories and people that matter
0:00:41 > 0:00:44most so we're going to keep listening to you and working hard to
0:00:44 > 0:00:49make sure that's what you see everyday.
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Is Mark Zuckerberg signalling that his all-powerful creation
0:00:51 > 0:00:53was actually doing more harm than good?
0:00:53 > 0:00:55We ask the content creators, the advertisers and a leading
0:00:55 > 0:00:58psychologist whether this will make Facebook a happier, even more
0:00:58 > 0:01:01prosperous place.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03And this...
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Now is the time to negotiate in order to obtain the best
0:01:06 > 0:01:08conditions possible.
0:01:08 > 0:01:14You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth!
0:01:14 > 0:01:17We engaged some very special Newsnight reviewers of the latest
0:01:17 > 0:01:23portrayal of Churchill and his crucial decision in 1940.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25My parents were quite distressed because they had gone
0:01:25 > 0:01:27through the First World War.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29But I was quite excited, I thought it was
0:01:29 > 0:01:37going to be interesting.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45Donald Trump, no stranger to outbursts and inappropriate
0:01:45 > 0:01:50and insulting language, has taken it to another level,
0:01:50 > 0:01:53and has been labelled a racist today by African politicians and diplomats
0:01:53 > 0:01:57after he was reported to have described some immigrants coming
0:01:57 > 0:02:01from Africa and Haiti as coming from "shithole countries"
0:02:01 > 0:02:04during a meeting at the Oval Office at which US senators were present.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07Trump denies using such derogatory language but the African Union said
0:02:07 > 0:02:11it was alarmed by Trump's "very racist comments".
0:02:11 > 0:02:14So just how damaging is this to a President who has shown himself
0:02:14 > 0:02:17unconcerned about making enemies?
0:02:17 > 0:02:25A few minutes ago I spoke to our North America editor, Jon Sopel.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30To what extent is this the furore of a different order
0:02:30 > 0:02:32to previous problems with Trump's language and his insults?
0:02:32 > 0:02:36Well, I think, Kirsty, in a way it is part of a piece, isn't it?
0:02:36 > 0:02:38Donald Trump has got himself in trouble with, kind of,
0:02:38 > 0:02:41comments that have a bearing on race before.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44Whether it be the fact that Barack Obama was not an American,
0:02:44 > 0:02:47allegedly, something he withdrew in the later stages of the campaign.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50His comments on Charlottesville.
0:02:50 > 0:02:54The way he seemed to equate antiracism protesters with the,
0:02:54 > 0:02:58kind of, far, far right, Ku Klux Klan, people carrying
0:02:58 > 0:02:59swastikas at a demonstration in Charlottesville.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03And now this.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05But I suspect what's different about this is that this has
0:03:05 > 0:03:07an international resonance.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10It is as though, if you accept the accounts of the meeting,
0:03:10 > 0:03:14and they haven't been strenuously denied by the White House,
0:03:14 > 0:03:16that Donald Trump believes they are the Nato countries,
0:03:16 > 0:03:20the ASEAN countries, and the shithole countries.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23But that has huge applications, of course, for, as you say,
0:03:23 > 0:03:24international relations.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28The African Union have come out tonight, various ambassadors
0:03:28 > 0:03:30from other countries mentioned, and also, of course,
0:03:30 > 0:03:32the Haitian ambassador.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36To what extent does this do damage to relations,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39or is Trump aside from the ordinary American politics
0:03:39 > 0:03:41as far as this case?
0:03:41 > 0:03:43Well, I think it does damage in the sense of, you know,
0:03:43 > 0:03:46American leadership in the world.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49But Donald Trump hasn't particularly sought to have American
0:03:49 > 0:03:51leadership in the world, except when it suits him.
0:03:51 > 0:03:57Except when he needs the support of others to rally around him.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01And I think that you saw it on the, kind of, vote where the condemnation
0:04:01 > 0:04:04of the announcement of moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06America found itself very, very isolated,
0:04:06 > 0:04:08and angry at that isolation.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11And that is the price you pay with, kind of, making these
0:04:11 > 0:04:13unguarded remarks.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15And it does seem that it has damaged America.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19America's standing in the world.
0:04:19 > 0:04:20What about America's standing at home?
0:04:20 > 0:04:25I mean, among his supporters I suspect if you ask people
0:04:25 > 0:04:28about what the president had said, you'd say was it presidential?
0:04:28 > 0:04:30A pollster would find that they would say no.
0:04:30 > 0:04:31Were people surprised?
0:04:31 > 0:04:37I'm sure people would say no.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39And does it change your view of Donald Trump?
0:04:39 > 0:04:41Also, probably know, because this is what a lot
0:04:41 > 0:04:43of people voted for, a president who can say
0:04:43 > 0:04:45what they're thinking, but they're not saying.
0:04:45 > 0:04:52John, thanks very much indeed.
0:04:52 > 0:04:58We hope to speak to the ambassador from the African Union very shortly.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00It's hard to estimate the impact Facebook has had
0:05:00 > 0:05:02on politics and our lives.
0:05:02 > 0:05:03What finally did for Facebook's rampant domination,
0:05:03 > 0:05:05some might say enslavement of the media?
0:05:05 > 0:05:07Was it all the fake stuff, the political interference
0:05:07 > 0:05:09in the American election?
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Or an increasing distaste about the mining and manipulation
0:05:11 > 0:05:13of the tiniest details of our online lives?
0:05:13 > 0:05:16Now Zuckerburg wants to take it back to a simple social network
0:05:16 > 0:05:19and slough off all the news feeds, the political propaganda
0:05:19 > 0:05:23and the viral diarrhoea, and make it good for our wellbeing.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27But what brought on Mark Zuckerburg's decision to make
0:05:27 > 0:05:28Facebook a simpler, gentler world?
0:05:28 > 0:05:36Here's our technology editor, David Grossman.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41In the history of the world, as any successful company ever said, we
0:05:41 > 0:05:45want you to use our product less? Do other things with your time?
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Because, well, believe it or not, that's what Facebook are saying.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51We also expect overall time spent on Facebook to go down,
0:05:51 > 0:05:56but our goal is that the time people do spend on Facebook will be better.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00This is all about what Facebook shows us in our news feed.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03From now on the company says it's going to downgrade professionally
0:06:03 > 0:06:05creative content from businesses, brands, and media organisations,
0:06:05 > 0:06:07and upgrade personally created content from people we know,
0:06:07 > 0:06:13from real human beings in our network.
0:06:13 > 0:06:18In a post on Facebook last night, CEO of Mark Zuckerberg said,
0:06:18 > 0:06:21it's all about making sure that time on Facebook is an emotionally
0:06:21 > 0:06:25uplifting experience.
0:06:25 > 0:06:29We are in a really interesting space in the tech community right
0:06:29 > 0:06:32now, which is to say, how do we harness this addictive
0:06:32 > 0:06:34nature, the technologies that we've built, but to contribute
0:06:34 > 0:06:36to something that's going to be a net positive
0:06:36 > 0:06:39for an individual or for a society.
0:06:39 > 0:06:42We don't exactly know how to measure that yet.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46This is all a new and emerging space.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49But what today's announcement from Facebook symbolises, to me,
0:06:49 > 0:06:52is that the senior management team is getting behind this and is trying
0:06:52 > 0:06:54to actually get ahead of a wave, a current of people,
0:06:54 > 0:07:00thinking more carefully about how they are spending their time online.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03It didn't take us long to find former Facebook users
0:07:03 > 0:07:06who've left the platform.
0:07:06 > 0:07:09For me, personally, the biggest thing was how angry it made me.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11It's all a bit much.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14It's...
0:07:14 > 0:07:16Once you have, I suppose, the ability to broadcast every
0:07:16 > 0:07:21single detail of your life to everybody you know, you do.
0:07:21 > 0:07:26If anybody is thinking of getting rid of Facebook,
0:07:26 > 0:07:28I can assure you it's the best decision I ever made.
0:07:28 > 0:07:29It improves your mental health.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31It improves your social life.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33It improves your productivity.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37But there's also a strong business case from Facebook,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40showing us more of the personal stuff like this...
0:07:40 > 0:07:45And less of the corporate stuff like this...
0:07:45 > 0:07:48Because Facebook's value depends on what it knows about us.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52Selling that information to advertisers.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55It's going to learn a lot less about us if we are just
0:07:55 > 0:07:56passively scrolling through professionally
0:07:56 > 0:07:57creative content.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00It's going to know a lot more about us if we're creating
0:08:00 > 0:08:03and sharing content of our own.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06But this could potentially have a huge impact
0:08:06 > 0:08:09on publishers of content, like media organisations.
0:08:09 > 0:08:14Late last year Facebook trialled a similar change
0:08:14 > 0:08:16to their ranking algorithm in six countries, including Guatemala.
0:08:16 > 0:08:21When the Facebook experiment began, we saw a huge drop of traffic
0:08:21 > 0:08:25from 30 to 60% drop.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28We saw, again, a huge drop since yesterday when they announced
0:08:28 > 0:08:32that they will prioritise content made by family and friends
0:08:32 > 0:08:37and reemphasise the content made by publishers.
0:08:37 > 0:08:39These will send a seismic blow throughout the market.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42It will be...
0:08:42 > 0:08:45It will affect, tremendously, particularly young, innovative,
0:08:45 > 0:08:52independent news outlets.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54In essense, Facebook is prioritising the future health
0:08:54 > 0:08:57of its brand and platform, and the future health
0:08:57 > 0:08:59of the companies and organisations that have spent the past five years
0:08:59 > 0:09:01building their brands on Facebook.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04It's a big change for the company, and a big change, potentially,
0:09:04 > 0:09:11for how 2 billion people react with the online world.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13Joining me now is Peter Heneghan, head of communications
0:09:13 > 0:09:14at LADbible Group.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17I'm also with Catherine Becker, chief executive of the advertising
0:09:17 > 0:09:21agency VCCP Media.
0:09:21 > 0:09:23And Daria Kuss, a psychologist specialising in internet usage
0:09:23 > 0:09:27at Nottingham Trent University.
0:09:27 > 0:09:35Good evening. First of all, who has got most to lose out of this?I
0:09:35 > 0:09:41would say the audience. That is the big winner in this case. But we see
0:09:41 > 0:09:47that as a good thing because ultimately, the audience is what
0:09:47 > 0:09:52makes Facebook and as a publisher, we have a huge audience so we have
0:09:52 > 0:09:5762 million followers across social on different channels. And they see
0:09:57 > 0:10:03us as like being a friend, and as a result we will do well out of this.
0:10:03 > 0:10:08They will find you but you won't be quite so prominent?Publishers will
0:10:08 > 0:10:12not be so prominent but there will still be a lot of space for
0:10:12 > 0:10:15publishers and publishers that do social in the right way and we are
0:10:15 > 0:10:21very good example of how to do social in a good way.And a variety
0:10:21 > 0:10:25of campaigns we can talk about. As far as advertising is concerned, you
0:10:25 > 0:10:29heard the contributor in Guatemala talking about how that traffic was
0:10:29 > 0:10:34gone and that was problematic.There will be winners and losers and we
0:10:34 > 0:10:38have seen these algorithm changes in the past and it is just about
0:10:38 > 0:10:43adapting and being fleet of foot and making sure we adapt to the new
0:10:43 > 0:10:48social engaging environment.You want a bloody good spin on this but
0:10:48 > 0:10:53the fact is advertising has had a very good time on Facebook because
0:10:53 > 0:10:57you have a much bigger and quicker audience than you have a television.
0:10:57 > 0:11:02That is going to be separated? It is not going to be alongside the family
0:11:02 > 0:11:07and friends?There will still be advertising and the important thing
0:11:07 > 0:11:12is to have advertising that is socially engaging and that people
0:11:12 > 0:11:17adapt to and reactive.Do you think that by doing this, Zuckerberg has
0:11:17 > 0:11:26recognised that some of the content has a pernicious effect?Yes and it
0:11:26 > 0:11:30is a short-term pain for the long-term gain and it is the
0:11:30 > 0:11:34interests of the advertisers that this is an engaged platform, it is
0:11:34 > 0:11:41about adapting to that and having that, companies like us, being fleet
0:11:41 > 0:11:47of foot and making sure we make changes.You have looked at the
0:11:47 > 0:11:56impact of sustained online usage and I wonder, do you think Mark
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Zuckerberg seriously looked at the impact on mental health that
0:11:58 > 0:12:05Facebook was having?That was one of the key drivers. When we considered
0:12:05 > 0:12:08the research at Nottingham Trent University into social media use and
0:12:08 > 0:12:12the kind of mental health benefits or potential problems that excessive
0:12:12 > 0:12:18use can cause, we would as soon the kinds of changes being proposed
0:12:18 > 0:12:24appear to potentially lead to really beneficial results for the user. On
0:12:24 > 0:12:28one hand, Mark Zuckerberg is trying to propose using Facebook in a
0:12:28 > 0:12:32different way, to have a news feed that allows people to have more
0:12:32 > 0:12:36content from family and friends which potentially might indeed
0:12:36 > 0:12:41impact on mental health positively. My research has shown that when we
0:12:41 > 0:12:44are using Facebook to connect with people around us, with our family
0:12:44 > 0:12:50and friends, this may indeed impact on how your feeling about ourselves
0:12:50 > 0:12:55and improve our mood mental health and well-being and in addition, what
0:12:55 > 0:12:59I need to add is if we are looking into excessive use, which has been
0:12:59 > 0:13:04in the media a lot and is something we have researched for a number of
0:13:04 > 0:13:08years here at Nottingham Trent, we know that if people are using
0:13:08 > 0:13:12Facebook and other social networking sites excessively, this might lead
0:13:12 > 0:13:17to a detrimental impact, such as feelings of depression, anxiety,
0:13:17 > 0:13:21stress and addiction but we want to do is try to counter this and
0:13:21 > 0:13:27potentially the new movements with Facebook may lead to providing a way
0:13:27 > 0:13:31into how to improve the situation. And ensure users are happier in
0:13:31 > 0:13:39engaging with Facebook.I wonder if that idea, interacting as opposed to
0:13:39 > 0:13:44passive viewing, is something that you take on board when thinking
0:13:44 > 0:13:49about the content you make for your website? Do you recognise the
0:13:49 > 0:13:54problems that we're talking about? Absolutely, and the example I can
0:13:54 > 0:13:59give is we asked our audience what was important to them and they told
0:13:59 > 0:14:06us that the biggest issue for them was mental health. We launched a
0:14:06 > 0:14:12campaign which allowed us to talk in a really relatable way to the
0:14:12 > 0:14:17millennial audience and that was helpful because we explained that
0:14:17 > 0:14:19one in four people will at some point suffer from a mental health
0:14:19 > 0:14:24problem, not necessarily due to Facebook but generally in life. For
0:14:24 > 0:14:29the first time, people came back to us and said, you are allowed us to
0:14:29 > 0:14:33sit with our friends in the pub and talk about mental health and
0:14:33 > 0:14:39Facebook enabled us to do that. Although there is negativity within
0:14:39 > 0:14:42social media, there is also positivity and we have experienced
0:14:42 > 0:14:46that.We still have a situation where people they know their friends
0:14:46 > 0:14:49and seeing how much better they are doing, there will still be that
0:14:49 > 0:14:54element of Facebook?But equally you have that outside of Facebook,
0:14:54 > 0:14:58people will always look at friends, they have a better car while they
0:14:58 > 0:15:01seem to be getting married earlier and so forth. They will always look
0:15:01 > 0:15:07at that in a way and maybe feel uneasy about themselves. But
0:15:07 > 0:15:12ultimately, I don't believe that is the responsibility of Facebook.This
0:15:12 > 0:15:17idea that David Grossman was talking about is no use to Facebook if
0:15:17 > 0:15:21people are scrolling and not waiting. Presumably, that is what is
0:15:21 > 0:15:25happening in advertising so you will hope that people stick longer on a
0:15:25 > 0:15:29page?And the more engaged they are cleaned up -- we know the more
0:15:29 > 0:15:33effective advertising can be because they are participating with that
0:15:33 > 0:15:37brand and advertising works harder at that. That is what we have been
0:15:37 > 0:15:42advising clients to do.Mark Zuckerberg is not just in this as an
0:15:42 > 0:15:47altruist, he wants to make money. While? You have millennials, and
0:15:47 > 0:15:51many of them are on Instagram and other sites and how do you get them
0:15:51 > 0:15:57back?There are two factors, the audience of 2 billion, but is a
0:15:57 > 0:16:01finite audience and he has saturated that the other major is engagement
0:16:01 > 0:16:04and the length of time they are on Facebook and that is what he is
0:16:04 > 0:16:10encouraging. Encouraging a human being to be on Facebook longer? What
0:16:10 > 0:16:15is positive about this press release is it is talking about making people
0:16:15 > 0:16:19more engaged and happy. We want a more positive outcome and that is
0:16:19 > 0:16:23better.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28Mark Zuckerberg was influenced by the impact on children. What's good
0:16:28 > 0:16:33about Facebook if it is interactive and has children on them for even
0:16:33 > 0:16:38longer than they are at the moment, how is that good for mental health?
0:16:38 > 0:16:42When we are looking at children, their brains are still developing,
0:16:42 > 0:16:47they have a considerable way to go until their brain has reached full
0:16:47 > 0:16:52maturity, we need to be careful in terms of technology use. American
0:16:52 > 0:16:56paediatricians are now really speaking of limiting the use of
0:16:56 > 0:17:01technology, including Facebook, social media, etc, for children.
0:17:01 > 0:17:06Especially at the years of two, three, four. We need to be careful.
0:17:06 > 0:17:11Facebook is only allowed to be used by teenagers from the age of 13.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15This is for particular reasons. We need to be able to curb technology
0:17:15 > 0:17:19used to such an extent that the developing brain went been
0:17:19 > 0:17:23negatively affected. It's not really a problem. As long as we as parents
0:17:23 > 0:17:28and teachers are making children aware that there may be potential
0:17:28 > 0:17:33dangers associated with overuse and that we are very much aware of the
0:17:33 > 0:17:38benefits of social networking and social media use at the same time.
0:17:38 > 0:17:43It's always very important to be able to see two side of the coin.
0:17:43 > 0:17:49Otherwise we would have a limited and one-sided discussion.Briefly,
0:17:49 > 0:17:53Peter, we talk about Mark Zuckerberg as if he has had a great epiphany,
0:17:53 > 0:17:57but the truth of the matter is had there not been all of the problems
0:17:57 > 0:18:00with the fake news on the interference with the American
0:18:00 > 0:18:04elections, do you think this would have happened?I think he has looked
0:18:04 > 0:18:08at this. He realises the audience is the key. He's making the decisions
0:18:08 > 0:18:13that what is best for the audience is ultimately better for Facebook.
0:18:13 > 0:18:14Thank you all very much indeed.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17Everybody's talking about the Oscar chances of 'Darkest Hour',
0:18:17 > 0:18:19the story of how Winston Churchill shrugged off the doubters
0:18:19 > 0:18:21and appeasers to lead Britain against the Nazis.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23The film, released today, has already earned a Golden Globe
0:18:23 > 0:18:26for the veteran British actor Gary Oldman as the wartime PM.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28The critics have been generous with their praise, but how well
0:18:28 > 0:18:31does the film stand up for those who were actually around
0:18:31 > 0:18:33when the film was set, in 1940?
0:18:33 > 0:18:35Newsnight took a charabanc of Chelsea Pensioners -
0:18:35 > 0:18:38men in their eighties and nineties who served in the second world
0:18:38 > 0:18:39war - to see the film.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41These distinguished old soldiers shared their memories
0:18:41 > 0:18:49with our still-surprisingly callow and jejune Stephen Smith.
0:18:50 > 0:18:55We are looking at the collapse of Western Europe in the next few days.
0:18:55 > 0:19:00How long have they got if we don't rescue them? Maybe two days, we
0:19:00 > 0:19:05would need a miracle to get our men passed.Gary Oldman and his
0:19:05 > 0:19:08extraordinary prosthetics have been acclaimed for this story of
0:19:08 > 0:19:12Churchill's struggle against the Nazis and his own party.We must
0:19:12 > 0:19:16renegotiate peace talks.When will the lesson be learned, you cannot
0:19:16 > 0:19:22reason with a tiger!
0:19:26 > 0:19:29reason with a tiger!But we wondered how it would go down with Britons
0:19:29 > 0:19:37who actually lived through the film's Darkest Hour, May 19 40.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40film's Darkest Hour, May 19 40.I'm 91. I joined the Scots Guards in
0:19:40 > 0:19:581944.Hello, I'm Alan, I served in Burma and India.My name is James
0:19:58 > 0:20:04Little, I'm 87, and I served in the Corps of Royal Engineers.My name's
0:20:04 > 0:20:09Fred Ruck. I served with the Royal intellectual and mechanical
0:20:09 > 0:20:14engineers during the Second World War. Having got rid of Hitler, I
0:20:14 > 0:20:21came out of the Army in 1947.Good afternoon, gentlemen, you must be
0:20:21 > 0:20:25the Chelsea Pensioners. Very nice to see you. Fancy a trip to the
0:20:25 > 0:20:33pictures?That would be very interesting. Take us with you.
0:20:36 > 0:20:41We put our distinguished old soldiers on short rations of Rosie
0:20:41 > 0:20:47Lee and plain biscuits and settled in for the feature.Where you are
0:20:47 > 0:20:55doing your victory sign. In the poorer quarters that gesture means
0:20:55 > 0:21:01something else.What does it mean?I wouldn't like to say.I must catch
0:21:01 > 0:21:14it.Up your bum, Sir.Up your bum? LAUGHTER
0:21:14 > 0:21:22The way you are doing it, yes, sir. In my memory it was always referred
0:21:22 > 0:21:31to a cantankerous so and so. He was always referred. That's when we
0:21:31 > 0:21:35wanted somebody like that, at the time.What did you think of Gary
0:21:35 > 0:21:42Oldman in the part?Very good.Did he convince you?Yes, very good.The
0:21:42 > 0:21:47other thing that was good was the relationship between King George VI
0:21:47 > 0:21:51and Churchill. The way that was portrayed.I believe we are to speak
0:21:51 > 0:22:00regularly.Once a week, I'm afraid. How are you for Mondays?I shall
0:22:00 > 0:22:08endeavour to be here on Mondays. Four o'clock.I nap at four.Is that
0:22:08 > 0:22:14permissible?No, but necessary.He was the right man, at the right
0:22:14 > 0:22:19time, in the right place, and the public knew that, from what I
0:22:19 > 0:22:24recall. But I think, you know, the battles in Parliament were once that
0:22:24 > 0:22:28he had to take on and thank God he won them, otherwise we wouldn't be
0:22:28 > 0:22:33here talking about it now.Did you feel fear at the time of joining up?
0:22:33 > 0:22:41No.You are smiling.Youngsters don't feel fear, it's all
0:22:41 > 0:22:44excitement. I remember when it was announced we were at war with
0:22:44 > 0:22:48Germany. How my parents were quite distressed because they had gone
0:22:48 > 0:22:52through the First World War, but I was excited, I thought it would be
0:22:52 > 0:22:57interesting.Watch that film did for me, it conjured up memories of me as
0:22:57 > 0:23:05a young lad. A lot of very young fellows, with no experience, not
0:23:05 > 0:23:10knowing what would happen to them, went off. And a lot of them didn't
0:23:10 > 0:23:15survive. And you think about how old these chaps were, 17, 18, 19 years
0:23:15 > 0:23:21old. Incredible.
0:23:25 > 0:23:33Two trumpet stories make it to the front pages. -- two Donald Trump
0:23:33 > 0:23:36stories. The Daily
0:23:36 > 0:23:37front pages. -- two Donald Trump stories. The Daily Mail says he
0:23:37 > 0:23:41isn't coming to Britain next month, partly because he doesn't like the
0:23:41 > 0:23:45architecture of the new US embassy. He is going to miss out on the royal
0:23:45 > 0:23:50wedding.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55We hoped to be joined from Nashville by Dr Arikana Chihombori-Quao,
0:23:55 > 0:23:57the African Union's ambassador to the United States.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00Unfortunately she has been snowed in.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02Today, Trump flew to the Walter Reed National Miilitary Medical Centre
0:24:02 > 0:24:05in Maryland for his first medical since taking office,
0:24:05 > 0:24:07from which he'll receive doctors' notes indicating whether he is "fit
0:24:07 > 0:24:10to serve", which Trump is under no obligation to publish.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12But this is a physical, whereas the speculation
0:24:12 > 0:24:13surrounding his mental health is swirling constantly,
0:24:13 > 0:24:15especially after the publication of Michael Wolff's book.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17President Trump, of course, has self diagnosed -
0:24:17 > 0:24:19calling himself "mentally stable and, like, really smart."
0:24:19 > 0:24:21But such is one Ivy League psychiatrist's concern
0:24:21 > 0:24:23about Trump's mental state, which she describes as "dangerous",
0:24:23 > 0:24:26that Bandy Lee held a private meeting with members of Congress
0:24:26 > 0:24:29to convince them that he is "unfit to serve" and has been calling
0:24:29 > 0:24:31for a mental health evaluation for more than a year.
0:24:31 > 0:24:36I spoke to her earlier.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39I've never met him and I'm not interested in making any comments
0:24:39 > 0:24:41that relate to things I cannot assess.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43So basically the Goldwater rule was implemented after about 10%
0:24:43 > 0:24:45of the psychiatrists who were surveyed returned
0:24:45 > 0:24:52with an answer saying that Mr Goldwater was unfit.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55That is not an assessment we can make from afar.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57And all that I am speaking to are the worrying signs
0:24:57 > 0:25:05of possible incapacity and therefore calling for an evaluation.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14If you haven't met him, if you haven't spoken to him,
0:25:14 > 0:25:19if you haven't been in the same room as him, how can you assert
0:25:19 > 0:25:22that he is dangerous?
0:25:22 > 0:25:25The information that is important for dangerousness is mostly not
0:25:25 > 0:25:28obtained in an in-person interview.
0:25:28 > 0:25:31In fact, a personal interview is not likely to reveal very
0:25:31 > 0:25:37important information.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39What you look at are patterns of behaviour, responses
0:25:39 > 0:25:46to situations, how the individual is evolving over time
0:25:46 > 0:25:47and others' reports.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51People who work close to him.
0:25:51 > 0:25:57As well as written statements and verbal statements over time.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00So it's actually a vast amount of data that we already have
0:26:00 > 0:26:03on Mr Trump, far more than we generally do with most
0:26:03 > 0:26:05of our patients, in fact.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08Still, that doesn't allow us to make a diagnosis but there is certainly
0:26:08 > 0:26:11ample objective data to be able to say that he is a
0:26:11 > 0:26:19high risk, a danger.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27So tell me, in your evaluations and in your observations of data
0:26:27 > 0:26:30and indeed your observations of the President, what do
0:26:30 > 0:26:32you think are the key things, the key signs which lead
0:26:32 > 0:26:35you to believe that this man is dangerous and capable
0:26:35 > 0:26:38of acting dangerously?
0:26:38 > 0:26:42First of all, past violence is the best predictor
0:26:42 > 0:26:47for future violence.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49He has shown verbal aggressiveness, a history of boasting
0:26:49 > 0:26:51about sexual assaults, a history of inciting
0:26:51 > 0:26:53violence at his rallies.
0:26:53 > 0:26:57A history of endorsing violence in his public speeches.
0:26:57 > 0:27:00And a continual taunting of a hostile nation with nuclear power.
0:27:00 > 0:27:05All of these are signs of danger and he has also exhibited
0:27:05 > 0:27:08characteristics that are highly associated with violence,
0:27:08 > 0:27:11which include impulsivity, recklessness, paranoid reactions,
0:27:11 > 0:27:13showing a loose grip on reality, having no empathy, rage
0:27:13 > 0:27:16reactions and a constant need to burnish his sense of power.
0:27:16 > 0:27:24These are all associated with dangerousness.
0:27:31 > 0:27:33There has been reaction from African
0:27:33 > 0:27:36There has been reaction from African nations, also highlighted, El
0:27:36 > 0:27:40Salvador, and the UN to remarks made by Donald Trump in the oval Office
0:27:40 > 0:27:43in front of senators and a bipartisan meeting where he
0:27:43 > 0:27:49apparently talked about African countries and Haiti being shithole
0:27:49 > 0:27:54countries.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59We are joined from Nashville by Dr Arikana Chihombori-Quao,
0:27:59 > 0:28:02the African Union's ambassador to the United States.
0:28:02 > 0:28:07I wonder what the African Union's response has been to the office of
0:28:07 > 0:28:12the president. I know you said he has been racist. But what is the
0:28:12 > 0:28:18next step to deal with this?As the African Union we were quite
0:28:18 > 0:28:27appalled. Infuriated, outraged by the comments. For a country like the
0:28:27 > 0:28:32United States, which is a valued partner for the Africans, this was
0:28:32 > 0:28:41quite a shock.President Trump appeared to say today that fewer
0:28:41 > 0:28:44immigrants from Africa, more immigrants from Norway. Do you think
0:28:44 > 0:28:50President Trump's statements have been racist?His words will speak
0:28:50 > 0:28:57for themselves and for himself. What I can say unequivocally is that our
0:28:57 > 0:29:04contributions to the United States, as Africans who came electively, and
0:29:04 > 0:29:14as Africans who came in shackles, and for the administration to
0:29:14 > 0:29:17disregard the contributions of the Africans, through the continental
0:29:17 > 0:29:21Africans, as well as the African-Americans, I think that is
0:29:21 > 0:29:29just really unfortunate. Will the African Union be seeking an apology?
0:29:29 > 0:29:33-- Donald Trump has denied making derogatory remarks, but the White
0:29:33 > 0:29:38House has not been unequivocal in its denial, and I wonder if you will
0:29:38 > 0:29:42be seeking clarification and also if it is indeed the case that he used
0:29:42 > 0:29:48that language you will be seeking an apology?Absolutely. We will be
0:29:48 > 0:29:52looking to having a conversation with the State Department. And
0:29:52 > 0:29:56requesting for clarification on that matter. But also it's important that
0:29:56 > 0:30:01there is a better understanding of the Africans by the administration.
0:30:01 > 0:30:07That's my role, to make sure that our relationship with the United
0:30:07 > 0:30:14States is a power. And it is my responsibility to clarify any
0:30:14 > 0:30:18mistakes. I definitely will be reaching out to the State Department
0:30:18 > 0:30:23for a conversation.It's interesting because you have said and are saying
0:30:23 > 0:30:30that there is a vast misunderstanding of Africa within
0:30:30 > 0:30:35Trump's administration. Is that because there has been a change of
0:30:35 > 0:30:39administration? Or do you think it is an ongoing misunderstanding?I
0:30:39 > 0:30:42think it is an ongoing misunderstanding of Africa in
0:30:42 > 0:30:46general. As Africans we have a responsibility to step up, speak
0:30:46 > 0:30:53out, make our position is known, make sure not only must we expect
0:30:53 > 0:31:00the American agenda. But also make sure we have an agenda to the United
0:31:00 > 0:31:05States. Make clear what we accept from the US. What areas are up for
0:31:05 > 0:31:10discussion. As African nations, absolutely, we must articulate our
0:31:10 > 0:31:15position. We also have to be very clear as to what areas are
0:31:15 > 0:31:19completely no go. What we will not accept at all. We have a
0:31:19 > 0:31:25responsibility to articulate our policy on the US.At the beginning
0:31:25 > 0:31:28of the programme our North American editor said many people will be
0:31:28 > 0:31:33shocked by the language and the sentiment expressed by Donald Trump.
0:31:33 > 0:31:39Though, as I say come he does deny it. But for much of his base, they
0:31:39 > 0:31:43will think this is OK, they would expect this kind of language from
0:31:43 > 0:31:47the president. Our correspondent said that what he is saying is
0:31:47 > 0:31:50answered by them but they are happy to hear the president say it. What
0:31:50 > 0:31:56do you make of that?There is always going to be a segment of the
0:31:56 > 0:32:02population that feel otherwise. Even during slavery. As you know, there
0:32:02 > 0:32:06was a percentage of the population who felt that slavery should have
0:32:06 > 0:32:11continued. To those we pray for them. We are not going to stop
0:32:11 > 0:32:15moving the African agenda forward because of a small group of eight
0:32:15 > 0:32:21few people who are in the fringes of society. -- small group of a few
0:32:21 > 0:32:30people.Thank you very much.Thank you, and keep up the good work.
0:32:30 > 0:32:32That's it for tonight.