0:00:11 > 0:00:13Will the demise of Carillion be the crash that brings
0:00:13 > 0:00:19about a fundamental change of culture?
0:00:19 > 0:00:22Across the public sector you have companies that are acting not in the
0:00:22 > 0:00:26best interests of consumers of the services.I'll asked the Chief
0:00:26 > 0:00:32executive of one of the firm's Bibles if the system is broken. The
0:00:32 > 0:00:37murder of six-year-old Zainab in Pakistan has shocked the world. We
0:00:37 > 0:00:47hear from her parents on their fight for justice.
0:00:50 > 0:00:58Is this a watershed moment for Pakistan? What is Emmanuel Macron's
0:00:58 > 0:01:03game?
0:01:07 > 0:01:10game? On camera for the first time, Woody Allen's adopted daughter
0:01:10 > 0:01:18accuses him of sexual abuse and he denies it again.How is this crazy
0:01:18 > 0:01:21story of me being brainwashed and coached more believable than what
0:01:21 > 0:01:26I'm saying about being sexually assaulted by my father?We speak to
0:01:26 > 0:01:36a writer who has examined the director's very personal archives.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37Good evening.
0:01:37 > 0:01:43Will the demise of Carillion be the crash that brings
0:01:43 > 0:01:44about a fundamental change of culture?
0:01:44 > 0:01:47The failure of Carillion has raised ideological and practical questions
0:01:47 > 0:01:51over what is the best and most economical way to deliver excellence
0:01:51 > 0:01:54in everything from schools and HS2, to hospital services.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58Does what's happened to Carillion demonstrate
0:01:58 > 0:01:58that the system is broken?
0:01:58 > 0:02:01In order to deal with the immediate problem, the Business Secretary
0:02:01 > 0:02:06today chaired the first meeting of a government taskforce, involving
0:02:06 > 0:02:08business, unions and lenders, to support firms and workers
0:02:08 > 0:02:10affected by the firm's collapse.
0:02:10 > 0:02:11How big a deal has outsourcing become?
0:02:11 > 0:02:19Here's our Policy Editor Chris Cook.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24This is University College London Hospital, UCLH,
0:02:24 > 0:02:27an NHS hospital where devoted public employees tend the sick.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31But the building you can see was built
0:02:31 > 0:02:36by private builders and it's managed by private contractors.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39It's a parable about how the British state has
0:02:39 > 0:02:42been changed by our contracting out culture.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45The key thing to understand about outsourcing is the contract.
0:02:45 > 0:02:46Outsourcing a service means someone, somewhere,
0:02:46 > 0:02:50must write on a sheet of
0:02:50 > 0:02:54paper what the government wants, what they are willing to pay and the
0:02:54 > 0:02:57consequences if they don't get it.
0:02:57 > 0:03:01And if the contractor is a private company it can have brutal
0:03:01 > 0:03:06consequences because you don't care if they go bust.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08That's not credibly true if you're dealing with for
0:03:08 > 0:03:09example an NHS hospital.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11The thing is, this contractual thinking
0:03:11 > 0:03:14affects the government's relationships with all sorts of
0:03:14 > 0:03:20institutions, including those in the public sector.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23The last major review of nurses' pay was five years ago.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25In the 1980s the government found that hospitals
0:03:25 > 0:03:28couldn't tell it how much they spend on one procedure or another.
0:03:28 > 0:03:33Some didn't know how many staff they actually employed.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35These days they are set clear targets and are paid
0:03:35 > 0:03:41for the work that they do.
0:03:41 > 0:03:42They are treated more like a contractor than
0:03:42 > 0:03:44the hospitals of old.
0:03:44 > 0:03:49Jeremy Corbyn's own borough of Islington
0:03:49 > 0:03:51has found success raising standards in some areas
0:03:51 > 0:03:52through contracting out
0:03:52 > 0:03:56but it's also bringing some services back in-house.
0:03:56 > 0:03:5915 years ago housing management in Islington wasn't in a
0:03:59 > 0:04:02great place and the council took the decision with the support of
0:04:02 > 0:04:04residents to put it out to an arm's length organisation.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06They were much better housing managers and housing
0:04:06 > 0:04:09management got better but three or four years ago we took
0:04:09 > 0:04:12a pragmatic decision to bring it back in-house,
0:04:12 > 0:04:17the right decision and it saved a lot of money and has enabled us to
0:04:17 > 0:04:20deliver a better service because we don't have duplication,
0:04:20 > 0:04:22departments of communication and other things.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25There are serious difficulties with outsourcing.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29First, contract pricing for years ahead is hard and you can
0:04:29 > 0:04:33end up overpaying or underpaying, and those errors won't even out.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35Outsourcing companies will try to bank overpayments and walk away from
0:04:35 > 0:04:38underpayments.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41Secondly, outsourcing can lead to fractured services.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44It's really hard to get public contracts
0:04:44 > 0:04:52that reflect the complexity of what people have to do.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55I think the public are driven mad by phoning at a
0:04:55 > 0:04:57public service provider to be told that they can't do a particular
0:04:57 > 0:05:01thing because it isn't in the contract and
0:05:01 > 0:05:05they have to phone someone else.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07What the public want is services that understand they are
0:05:07 > 0:05:10real human beings with a complex range of needs and issues and can
0:05:10 > 0:05:12deal with them.
0:05:12 > 0:05:13Contractors sometimes have to borrow money to
0:05:13 > 0:05:15invest, that happens with the PFI at UCLH.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19But given the state can borrow more cheaply than anybody else, that is a
0:05:19 > 0:05:23waste of money. Fourth, we often see contracts given to companies who
0:05:23 > 0:05:29have known 11 track record because their expertise is unimportant.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32Finally, outsourcing often means workplaces where staff work for many
0:05:32 > 0:05:36different employers, so some employees will find it difficult to
0:05:36 > 0:05:42progress to other roles where they work, adding to the precariousness
0:05:42 > 0:05:44of a lot of already hard working lives.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Phil Bentley is chief executive of the out sourcing company Mighty,
0:05:47 > 0:05:48which holds many government contracts.
0:05:48 > 0:05:49This is his
0:05:49 > 0:05:53first interview since the collapse of Carillion.
0:05:53 > 0:06:00Thank you for joining us. Do you want Carillion's public contracts?
0:06:00 > 0:06:05We don't have as many public contracts as Carillion do with the
0:06:05 > 0:06:08government but we have some. I think the more important thing is, what
0:06:08 > 0:06:13can we do to help people who are worried about their jobs today, the
0:06:13 > 0:06:16hard-working people at Carillion? I think the government is doing the
0:06:16 > 0:06:21right thing to put a stop on it and say, look, let's fund it and
0:06:21 > 0:06:26continue looking at where we get value from the outsourcers and make
0:06:26 > 0:06:30sure that the employees working at Carillion aren't concerned about how
0:06:30 > 0:06:33they are going to get paid next week. Our thoughts are really with
0:06:33 > 0:06:40them. But we are an outsourcer, we do clearing, catering, engineering,
0:06:40 > 0:06:45we do essential services that a lot of clients rely on us for and I
0:06:45 > 0:06:49think we'll continue to.On the Carillion contracts come if you went
0:06:49 > 0:06:54for them, would you go in at a higher price? Would you suffer the
0:06:54 > 0:07:02rat of the taxpayer? Or eight higher price?I think the government are
0:07:02 > 0:07:07good at getting eight good deal. If EULA at the difficulties that
0:07:07 > 0:07:14Carillion have got into. -- if you look at the difficulties. They have
0:07:14 > 0:07:20difficulties in two areas, big cost overruns on fixed-price contracts,
0:07:20 > 0:07:26which is a risk transfer. Secondly they have a lot of debt and pension
0:07:26 > 0:07:31deficits as well. That's not the sort of business we are in.The
0:07:31 > 0:07:35problem is, though, often for outsourcing, companies including
0:07:35 > 0:07:39yours and others go in at a very low price because the government
0:07:39 > 0:07:43procurement looks at it and says we need a low price for the taxpayer
0:07:43 > 0:07:48but that may not be the best deal.I absolutely agree.Have you ever done
0:07:48 > 0:07:54that?It isn't just about price. We often say that we can't offer a
0:07:54 > 0:07:58cheaper mop and bucket, we offer a smarter one, we want to know how
0:07:58 > 0:08:02productive it is. That's where technology can help the industry
0:08:02 > 0:08:08provide analysis. The point you made in the clip about not knowing how
0:08:08 > 0:08:13much things cost, we can give our clients real-time information about
0:08:13 > 0:08:17what's really going on in their premises and they value that.It is
0:08:17 > 0:08:23still an imprecise science. Before you came, Minety sold off care for
0:08:23 > 0:08:34the elderly for £2. -- Mighty.That was before my time. The other point
0:08:34 > 0:08:39is about risk. If you price the Aberdeen bypass at 500 million,
0:08:39 > 0:08:44that's a fixed-price contract and if it's going to cost you £1 billion
0:08:44 > 0:08:49you are on the hook for that.You'd like to take more of the risk?No, I
0:08:49 > 0:08:55think we should be making sure that the risk we take is appropriate for
0:08:55 > 0:09:02the contract and our financial situation. We are £2.2 billion of
0:09:02 > 0:09:08revenue and we have cost, the sliver of profit is at risk if we don't
0:09:08 > 0:09:12price contracts properly.But maybe you don't take enough profit to give
0:09:12 > 0:09:16yourself that contingency that you aren't going to get from a
0:09:16 > 0:09:20government contract because you are so desperate, as the others are, do
0:09:20 > 0:09:23get the contract, and that's the problem for outsourcing.I don't
0:09:23 > 0:09:29think it is, actually. We looked after Lloyds bank, Vodafone, the
0:09:29 > 0:09:34cleaning houses of parliament and Buckingham Palace, these are
0:09:34 > 0:09:37profitable contracts and they should continue to be because we are expert
0:09:37 > 0:09:43at what we do, we focus on scale and we understand risk. I hope we get it
0:09:43 > 0:09:53right more often than not.G4S lost the contract for looking after
0:09:53 > 0:09:57prisoners, the government contract, you got it, it was a half billion
0:09:57 > 0:10:03pound contract. Do you think on that contract the danger is that you are
0:10:03 > 0:10:09going to take too much risk as well? Obviously G4S had a problem, who's
0:10:09 > 0:10:16to say that you won't?It is Capita, to be fair. This contract has been
0:10:16 > 0:10:23nine months in the gestation. There have been a lot of conversations
0:10:23 > 0:10:29about risk and pricing. We have caps on the pricing so that if there is a
0:10:29 > 0:10:33change, and who knows how many immigrants we have, what we are
0:10:33 > 0:10:38dealing with here. We have two price risk into the contract.What was
0:10:38 > 0:10:44your profit margin on that contract? Quite low but appropriate for the
0:10:44 > 0:10:49risk.What was it?That is commercially, we aren't going to...
0:10:49 > 0:10:55The danger it is too low.I can tell you that we have looked over the
0:10:55 > 0:11:00contracts in a lot of detail. We provide services at Heathrow and
0:11:00 > 0:11:05there was a synergy between escorting and Heathrow Airport where
0:11:05 > 0:11:10we operate today. You have to look at the business.Jeremy Corbyn says
0:11:10 > 0:11:16that the £10 living wage.We are supportive of it and always have
0:11:16 > 0:11:19been.Thank you for joining us.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22The murder and rape of six-year-old Zainab in Pakistan last week
0:11:22 > 0:11:24provoked outrage in the country and across the world.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26Thousands tweeted their support under the hashtag
0:11:26 > 0:11:28"Justice for Zainab."
0:11:28 > 0:11:31But now investigators think that DNA links the man responsible
0:11:31 > 0:11:34for the horrific killing to attacks on seven other young girls
0:11:34 > 0:11:38in the same city over the last two and half years.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40There's now a huge manhunt underway.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42But why were the authorities seemingly so indifferent until now?
0:11:42 > 0:11:44Secunder Kermani has been tracing the killings -
0:11:44 > 0:11:52and has this report from the Pakistani city of Kasur.
0:12:07 > 0:12:14Once home to one of Pakistan's most famous poets, Kasur, now a city on
0:12:14 > 0:12:19edge. It is the story of the murder, rape or salt of at least eight young
0:12:19 > 0:12:24girls by it seems one man in one small part of the city. All of the
0:12:24 > 0:12:28victims went missing close to their homes. All of their bodies were
0:12:28 > 0:12:37dumped a few hundred metres away. The eldest was just seven years old.
0:12:37 > 0:12:41These are the last images of six-year-old Zainab alive, being led
0:12:41 > 0:12:49away by the hand of an unknown man. She'd been on her way to a Koran
0:12:49 > 0:12:54class but never turned up. Her body was found in this rubbish dump not
0:12:54 > 0:13:03far from her home, five days later. Zainab's mother proudly shows me her
0:13:03 > 0:13:07daughter's schoolwork. Her parents were in Saudi Arabia on pilgrimage
0:13:07 > 0:13:13when she went missing. They arrived back in Pakistan to bury her.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24They believe the police should have done more when Zainab first
0:13:24 > 0:13:31disappeared.
0:13:48 > 0:13:52At the Punjab information technology board, they are helping the police
0:13:52 > 0:13:59hunt down the possible suspects.All the data from close to Zainab's
0:13:59 > 0:14:03house as well as CCTV footage... They are using mobile phone tracking
0:14:03 > 0:14:08data, normally used to catch terrorists, to identify the killer
0:14:08 > 0:14:13and whether he had accomplices.The crime scene where this girl lived,
0:14:13 > 0:14:19the CCTV footage that emerged is about half a kilometre away so there
0:14:19 > 0:14:25is the issue of transporting the body back to where it was found. It
0:14:25 > 0:14:29isn't easy to carry a body halfway across the town. Was there somebody
0:14:29 > 0:14:36else helping them?Police have discovered traces of the same DNA in
0:14:36 > 0:14:43a similar cases including Zainab's. The first is an attempted rape in
0:14:43 > 0:14:46June, 2015. Nearly a year later another girl is attacked but
0:14:46 > 0:14:52survives. Last year there was an attack every few months. Five girls
0:14:52 > 0:14:59were killed, one survived.
0:14:59 > 0:15:03This man's daughter was the first to be murdered. The five-year-old
0:15:03 > 0:15:08disappeared on his birthday last January. He still has the teddy bear
0:15:08 > 0:15:11she gave him that morning. He is furious that the killer was never
0:15:11 > 0:15:12caught.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33Police are now coming the neighbourhood collecting DNA
0:15:33 > 0:15:40samples. They've done over 400 tests already. But the families of many
0:15:40 > 0:15:44victims believe the police didn't properly investigate the previous
0:15:44 > 0:15:48murders when they first happened. Instead they wrongly accused
0:15:48 > 0:15:53innocent men. One of the most serious allegations we've uncovered
0:15:53 > 0:16:00is that police carried out the extrajudicial killing of one
0:16:00 > 0:16:02suspect. Perhaps because they thought the court would set him
0:16:02 > 0:16:10free. Perhaps to put an end to the rising public anger. Police say this
0:16:10 > 0:16:15man was identified by a witness and killed trying to escape. But we have
0:16:15 > 0:16:19been told he was taken into custody and deliberately shot. We have been
0:16:19 > 0:16:28investigating what happened. A month after the first killing, this man
0:16:28 > 0:16:33and his five-year-old cousin were playing outside when she was
0:16:33 > 0:16:44kidnapped. Her body was found later that night in a construction site.
0:16:57 > 0:17:03His memory is understandably vague but the family says he showed police
0:17:03 > 0:17:11were the kidnapping happened and somehow identified a suspect. The
0:17:11 > 0:17:17suspect was apparently a labourer who had recently moved to the city.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20His family believe the police used him to cover up their failure to
0:17:20 > 0:17:26catch the real
0:17:40 > 0:17:45It now seems Mudasir was not the killer. Police say they found traces
0:17:45 > 0:17:48of the same DNA on the body of the girl he supposedly murdered on the
0:17:48 > 0:17:56other victims, including those attacked after he was killed. I put
0:17:56 > 0:18:02our findings to the regional government.If that is the case, if
0:18:02 > 0:18:06it has unearthed in such a concrete way in which we have evidence the
0:18:06 > 0:18:11person who was killed, his DNA was not a match and it's related to the
0:18:11 > 0:18:17same perpetrator, which it is, no we will have a fully fledged enquiry on
0:18:17 > 0:18:23that. Those who are responsible for this extrajudicial killing will not
0:18:23 > 0:18:30be speared.Last April, two months after Mudasir was killed another
0:18:30 > 0:18:34girl was raped and killed. Another two months later the same happened
0:18:34 > 0:18:41to a seven-year-old. By the time the body was found last July a clear
0:18:41 > 0:18:44pattern I began to emerge. All of the girls were found in fairly
0:18:44 > 0:18:50public places. In graveyards, and houses under construction, or in
0:18:50 > 0:18:59rubbish dumps. The attacker never tried to bury any of them. Anger in
0:18:59 > 0:19:03this city was growing. Politicians promised to investigate. But the
0:19:03 > 0:19:08attacks didn't stop. Another young girl was assaulted in November. She
0:19:08 > 0:19:15is currently in hospital.
0:19:26 > 0:19:30In Zainab's school classmates say they will keep her seat empty.
0:19:30 > 0:19:34Parents are being warned to always pick-up and drop-off their children.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38But there is anger in the city that it has taken so many attacks were
0:19:38 > 0:19:41the authorities to really take action. Why wasn't this level of
0:19:41 > 0:19:48effort we are now seeing when the investigation done before?To be
0:19:48 > 0:19:51honest I don't have a plausible justification for that. It should
0:19:51 > 0:19:57have been from day one the manner in which we are doing now.Is that not
0:19:57 > 0:20:04the governments responsibility?It is.So it is a failure?If I keep
0:20:04 > 0:20:07counting the police operations we were committed to the efforts we
0:20:07 > 0:20:16made it will not justify it, unless we catch him.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20The deaths of these young girls is provoking a national debate in
0:20:20 > 0:20:25Pakistan about child abuse. The priority along with reflection is
0:20:25 > 0:20:31the need to catch this killer before he strikes again.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34We're joined by Nadia Jamil - who's a Pakistani actress
0:20:34 > 0:20:35and children's rights campaigner
0:20:35 > 0:20:44Good evening to you.Good evening. Is there a feeling with Zainab's
0:20:44 > 0:20:48horrific rape and murder we have a moment like that of the Indian bus,
0:20:48 > 0:20:57that it will be taken seriously. The testimony of the audition there was
0:20:57 > 0:21:02extraordinary, almost complacent. There you are. Even know it's not
0:21:02 > 0:21:09enough, I feel. Paradigm shift happens so subtly and maybe this is
0:21:09 > 0:21:17it? 2015 when the rapes happened, hundreds and hundreds of rapes
0:21:17 > 0:21:21reported of children who were raped on camera, at gunpoint, being told
0:21:21 > 0:21:27to smile or I will shoot you.And these were used to blackmail the
0:21:27 > 0:21:35families?Absolutely. Brothers, sisters, families blackmailed. And a
0:21:35 > 0:21:44ring was exposed, perpetrators were exposed. Names were brought out. And
0:21:44 > 0:21:47yet, the lawyer who I worked with over there when I used to go to
0:21:47 > 0:21:52rehabilitate the children and work with the children, he said, there
0:21:52 > 0:21:56are 400, 300 that are out there but there are thousands who come to me.
0:21:56 > 0:22:05But in this one city, this city area, Kasur, we now have eight
0:22:05 > 0:22:10attempted killings, seven of which were successful, one child is in
0:22:10 > 0:22:13hospital. And it's taken until now to have any kind of concerted
0:22:13 > 0:22:18effort. Why is that? Is it a feeling of police, a conservative society, a
0:22:18 > 0:22:24of government? Is it a societal problem that they don't want to
0:22:24 > 0:22:29discuss this?Look... I was 17 when I started working with children.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32Every single day I opened the newspaper since I was 17 and I am 45
0:22:32 > 0:22:40now. You read in the newspaper might find raped, dead. There are four or
0:22:40 > 0:22:48five little blurbs everywhere every single day. Now suddenly that person
0:22:48 > 0:22:56has a name, it is Zainab.Social media has been a difference do you
0:22:56 > 0:23:03think?Yes I think now the apathy which was dormant in our public has
0:23:03 > 0:23:08pressured the government, and the media, to start taking names, start
0:23:08 > 0:23:13reporting. And the pressure is on them.Is that pressure is also
0:23:13 > 0:23:19because of social media being global so pressure is being heaped on
0:23:19 > 0:23:23Pakistani authorities which means they try harder?They are petrified.
0:23:23 > 0:23:32Politicians are only interested in power. Unite, the civilians, and the
0:23:32 > 0:23:35civic body of the state, has to put pressure on the politicians to work
0:23:35 > 0:23:39and earn a power and we have not done that yet. Now we are doing it
0:23:39 > 0:23:45but the point is, will we maintain this pressure?Also do you think the
0:23:45 > 0:23:50state has a capacity to solve these crimes?Absolutely not. I don't
0:23:50 > 0:23:57think the state has the capacity... Then how do they do it?It is the
0:23:57 > 0:24:01public who will have to understand that the state is not equipped, it
0:24:01 > 0:24:10is not delegating to the right people. Prevention, law and order,
0:24:10 > 0:24:13look at Kasur, the policemen, I have seen videos of them laughing and
0:24:13 > 0:24:19mocking the parents whose children were raped. Education, empathy,
0:24:19 > 0:24:25these men are desensitised to a point where it's ridiculous. When
0:24:25 > 0:24:28you have your marriage, the legal age for marriage in Pujara is
0:24:28 > 0:24:34currently 16. Four five years, what is the difference between 12 and 16?
0:24:34 > 0:24:39If you are able to have nonconsensual sex with a
0:24:39 > 0:24:4316-year-old, because if you marry her you can have nonconsensual sex
0:24:43 > 0:24:46with her, you can have it with a 12-year-old. And then a
0:24:46 > 0:24:50ten-year-old. And then what is a seven-year-old? So you raise the age
0:24:50 > 0:24:57of girls who are supposed to be married, you do that, it's a multi
0:24:57 > 0:25:02pronged operation which needs to be done. Education, Patriarca, is the
0:25:02 > 0:25:06state equipped and well a delegate to the right people?Thank you very
0:25:06 > 0:25:08much indeed.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11There was no sign of a rolled up Bayeux Tapestry,
0:25:11 > 0:25:13which is technically an embroidery, under Emmanual Macron's arm
0:25:13 > 0:25:15when he arrived for his first UK Presidential visit,
0:25:15 > 0:25:17but it was a sweetener, if a strange one, given
0:25:17 > 0:25:18the tapestry's subject matter.
0:25:18 > 0:25:22But the real "give" at least initially seems to be on our side -
0:25:22 > 0:25:25£44 million for better border security at Calais, in return for UK
0:25:25 > 0:25:31checks on their side of the channel.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33The mood music between the two countries ahead of Brexit
0:25:33 > 0:25:36may be positive but the message from the visit of the French
0:25:36 > 0:25:39President is he is now the main player in the EU.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42Theresa May kicked off the press conference with a gesture
0:25:42 > 0:25:43in a second language.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46President Macron,?je suis tres heureux de vous
0:25:46 > 0:25:48accueillir?aujourd'hui pour votre premiere visite au Royaume-Uni en
0:25:48 > 0:25:54tant que?President.
0:25:54 > 0:25:58So what did we learn from the May Macron joint
0:25:58 > 0:26:06press conference?
0:26:07 > 0:26:09Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban and our political editor Nick Watt
0:26:09 > 0:26:14are here and they've both picked a highlight.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18You had Theresa May reaching out in French which was more similar to Ted
0:26:18 > 0:26:21Heath rather than Tony Blair. Trying to revive the Entente cordiale
0:26:21 > 0:26:27because Theresa May wants to show that whilst the UK is leaving the EU
0:26:27 > 0:26:33it is not leaving Europe, and this was the response.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36TRANSLATION:I want to make sure that the Single Market is preserved
0:26:36 > 0:26:39because that's very much at the heart of the European Union.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42So the choice is on the British side, not on my side.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45But they can have the no differentiated access
0:26:45 > 0:26:47to the financial services, if you want access
0:26:47 > 0:26:51to the Single Market, including the financial services,
0:26:51 > 0:26:54be my guest, but that means you need to contribute to the budget
0:26:54 > 0:27:02and acknowledge the jurisdiction, the European jurisdiction.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07That was the absolutely fundamentalist EU position on access
0:27:07 > 0:27:11to, for the financial services to the single market after Brexit. As
0:27:11 > 0:27:15the president said, be my guest, you can have access if you observe the
0:27:15 > 0:27:18rules which means paying into the budget and excepting the
0:27:18 > 0:27:21jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. If you cannot accept
0:27:21 > 0:27:26that, he is saying, then you are looking at a deal along the lines of
0:27:26 > 0:27:31Canada and with Canada there is no access for services. Important to
0:27:31 > 0:27:35say Theresa May did say at the press conference that she is confident the
0:27:35 > 0:27:39UK will be able to get a deal, she has been calling it a pistol deal,
0:27:39 > 0:27:43not an off-the-shelf deal which will cover goods and services.And
0:27:43 > 0:27:48Emmanuel Macron was aware of his audience behind him with the rest of
0:27:48 > 0:27:51the EU, from your point as double editor what was the most important
0:27:51 > 0:28:00thing?Everyone expected security cooperation is a natural for the UK
0:28:00 > 0:28:04and we got more details on that, in and things like that. But people
0:28:04 > 0:28:08were saying Britain voted for Brexit you could forget having the border
0:28:08 > 0:28:14at Calais, it will be moved to Dover and a French reporter pointed out to
0:28:14 > 0:28:18the French president that he was one of those people. He said you were
0:28:18 > 0:28:21saying the border was moving so why have you changed your mind and
0:28:21 > 0:28:26signed this treaty today extending it, putting more money into it and
0:28:26 > 0:28:30effectively investing into the future of the border? He gave some
0:28:30 > 0:28:34predictable I suppose you could say reasons about the humanitarian
0:28:34 > 0:28:38aspect of it but listen closely to what he goes on to say in this clip.
0:28:38 > 0:28:45TRANSLATION:I think this treaty will very much enable us both to
0:28:45 > 0:28:51have a more human approach to these people. It will be efficient and
0:28:51 > 0:28:56also preserve the quality of this joint treaty. There is also the
0:28:56 > 0:29:00economic aspect of this treaty. Like the Prime Minister said, on both
0:29:00 > 0:29:04sides of the border we want to continue develop our trade, economic
0:29:04 > 0:29:07contracts. There is a lot of business to be done and we have
0:29:07 > 0:29:11businesses on both sides so it's to that effect that we need a very safe
0:29:11 > 0:29:15border.Some people were saying this is all about the people and then he
0:29:15 > 0:29:20uses it to talk about trade and economic cooperation and his hopes
0:29:20 > 0:29:24for deepening economic cooperation in all sorts of areas. You might say
0:29:24 > 0:29:27that's the sort of thing people say at summits. It doesn't cost
0:29:27 > 0:29:31anything. But let's be honest, we are now going into the seediest
0:29:31 > 0:29:35trading aspects of the Brexit talks and some people in the commission
0:29:35 > 0:29:42might have preferred him not to be explicit about that.If you talking,
0:29:42 > 0:29:50do you think he was off script and freelancing or wasn't very well
0:29:50 > 0:29:54worked out?I what is inevitable is that when you have leader to lead
0:29:54 > 0:30:00engagements like this they will talk about it. This is where some people
0:30:00 > 0:30:04in the Foreign Office, on the British side and in the Department
0:30:04 > 0:30:08for exiting the EU as well believe they can open up some latitude and
0:30:08 > 0:30:12differences between the 27 members and why it's so important from EU
0:30:12 > 0:30:20perspective, and he paid some, he said we only have one negotiator on
0:30:20 > 0:30:25this so it shows a sense of all that is.So in that sense, on that
0:30:25 > 0:30:30reading was at quite a win for Theresa May? Is that going to
0:30:30 > 0:30:38continue as more EU leaders trot over the next you to see her?
0:30:38 > 0:30:42As far as goods are concerned, it sounds like the French are up for a
0:30:42 > 0:30:48deal. There is a lot of pressure on Macron to get a deal on goods. There
0:30:48 > 0:30:51is a lot of thought that you may find it in the future negotiation
0:30:51 > 0:30:58that there is an early deal on goods but services, the largest part of
0:30:58 > 0:31:04the UK economy, that might be a difference -- different story.Thank
0:31:04 > 0:31:06you for joining us.
0:31:06 > 0:31:08"He's been lying and he's been lying for so long."
0:31:08 > 0:31:11Woody Allen's adopted daughter Dylan Farrow spoke on camera to CBS
0:31:11 > 0:31:15for the first time today about the sexual abuse she claims
0:31:15 > 0:31:18she suffered at the hands of her father 25 years ago.
0:31:18 > 0:31:20She spoke in detail of what she says happened
0:31:20 > 0:31:22to her when she was seven years old.
0:31:22 > 0:31:23Allen has repeatedly denied the allegation,
0:31:23 > 0:31:26most recently today, but sentiment against the veteran
0:31:26 > 0:31:32director has grown in recent months, with several actors distancing
0:31:32 > 0:31:35themselves from him, or donating their earnings from his films
0:31:35 > 0:31:36to sexual harassment groups.
0:31:36 > 0:31:40The latest, in the last week, is Rebecca Hall who starred
0:31:40 > 0:31:42in Vicky Christina Barcelona and in Allen's latest film.
0:31:42 > 0:31:44In a moment I'll speak to the journalist Richard Morgan
0:31:44 > 0:31:47and Tess Rafferty, a writer and activist.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49But first here is an extract from Dylan Farrow's CBS
0:31:49 > 0:31:50interview this morning.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53What I don't understand is, how is this crazy story of me
0:31:53 > 0:31:59being brainwashed and coached more believable than what I'm saying
0:31:59 > 0:32:05about being sexually assaulted by my father?
0:32:05 > 0:32:08Because your mother was very angry, so that she would try and coach you,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11try and get you to turn against your father.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14Except every step of the way, my mother has only encouraged me
0:32:14 > 0:32:16to tell the truth, she's never coached me.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19I wanted to play a clip from 60 Minutes, an interview
0:32:19 > 0:32:21he did at the time, where he was asked
0:32:21 > 0:32:22about that incident.
0:32:22 > 0:32:24Are you OK with looking at it?
0:32:24 > 0:32:32You OK?
0:32:32 > 0:32:35Isn't it illogical that I'm going to, at the height of a very
0:32:35 > 0:32:39bitter and acrimonious custody fight, drive up to Connecticut,
0:32:39 > 0:32:44where nobody likes me, I'm in a house full of enemies...
0:32:44 > 0:32:49I mean, Mia was so enraged at me and she had got
0:32:49 > 0:32:53all of the kids to be angry at me, that I'm going to drive
0:32:53 > 0:32:55up there and suddenly, on visitation, pick this moment
0:32:55 > 0:32:57in my life to become a child molester?
0:32:57 > 0:32:58It's just incredible.
0:32:58 > 0:33:01If I wanted to be a child molester, I had many
0:33:01 > 0:33:04opportunities in the past.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07I could have quietly made a custody settlement with Mia in some way
0:33:07 > 0:33:09and done it in the future.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12You know, it's so insane.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16Earlier I spoke to the journalist Richard Morgan, and Tess Rafferty,
0:33:16 > 0:33:18a writer, comedian and activist, who created the Take Back
0:33:18 > 0:33:20the Workplace march.
0:33:20 > 0:33:23These allegations were first made in 1992, so I started by asking
0:33:23 > 0:33:25Tess Rafferty why Dylan Farrow might have chosen to speak
0:33:25 > 0:33:30out again on TV now.
0:33:30 > 0:33:35I can't speak to that. I think she said in her interview that she
0:33:35 > 0:33:42thought she needed to say it, she wanted to take her me too moment,
0:33:42 > 0:33:47not just write about it but come forward, maybe seeing her speaking
0:33:47 > 0:33:53about it may make a difference for them. She expresses, and I can only
0:33:53 > 0:33:57imagine the frustration in seeing these women coming forward and
0:33:57 > 0:34:03telling stories and being believed and men as well coming forward
0:34:03 > 0:34:07telling their stories, and people are still sceptical about her,
0:34:07 > 0:34:11people continue to work with Woody Allen despite her story from which
0:34:11 > 0:34:18she has never wavered.On the other hand, Woody Allen has never been in
0:34:18 > 0:34:23a court of law, these allegations have been denied. In a sense you can
0:34:23 > 0:34:28say that the danger is, Richard Morgan, that we want victims to come
0:34:28 > 0:34:31forward of course but the court of public opinion can be quite a
0:34:31 > 0:34:37dangerous thing.The fact that it is a public opinion is important
0:34:37 > 0:34:41because it is important to remember that Dylan Farrow is not a
0:34:41 > 0:34:45celebrity, she isn't famous or powerful, she is the child of a mess
0:34:45 > 0:34:51and powerful people which is a lot of pressure to live up to -- child
0:34:51 > 0:34:58of rich and powerful people. She may not feel so rich, comfortable or
0:34:58 > 0:35:03empowered to speak up, which may be part of her delay but it is
0:35:03 > 0:35:06something to remember about why people choose to speak up down the
0:35:06 > 0:35:10road and not immediately. The idea that somebody should speak up
0:35:10 > 0:35:17immediately after, in the aftermath of a crisis, is a little bit of an
0:35:17 > 0:35:23unfair expectation.And she was only seven.Right.She's making
0:35:23 > 0:35:26allegations about what happened when she was only seven.And I want to
0:35:26 > 0:35:30say that she did speak up when she was seven, she told her mother what
0:35:30 > 0:35:36happened.Interesting point you make about, she's not a famous person,
0:35:36 > 0:35:40she is the child of celebrities, which in a way makes harder for her
0:35:40 > 0:35:47to speak up because it is the adopted father who is in the
0:35:47 > 0:35:52limelight, who has had many people working with him all over the world,
0:35:52 > 0:35:56famous actors and actresses, so for her, in a way, that must have been
0:35:56 > 0:36:03quite difficult.Yeah I think it looked incredibly difficult and I
0:36:03 > 0:36:07think she's very brave for what she did and continuing to put her story
0:36:07 > 0:36:12out there when so many people who readily believe every other story
0:36:12 > 0:36:17are discounting hers by continuing to work with her father.Richard
0:36:17 > 0:36:22Morgan, you have gone through the archive, a very personal archive
0:36:22 > 0:36:29that Woody Allen has put in Winston University, 56 boxes, I think,
0:36:29 > 0:36:34you've been through everything. What were you researching? -- in
0:36:34 > 0:36:40Princeton University.He is an unparalleled artistic genius, there
0:36:40 > 0:36:48is no one like him in art alive today. I wanted to get a sense of
0:36:48 > 0:36:53that creative process, how someone can be at the forefront of the
0:36:53 > 0:37:00avant-garde for many decades, to look into his thinking. It is like
0:37:00 > 0:37:08Leonardo da Vinci's notebooks or Shakespeare's diary.You were
0:37:08 > 0:37:12surprised by what you found?Yeah, I was surprised by the persistence of
0:37:12 > 0:37:17the imagery.
0:37:19 > 0:37:24the imagery. He really obsesses about very young women, 18 years
0:37:24 > 0:37:29old, 19 years old. There is one point where he writes in notes, this
0:37:29 > 0:37:38college student should the maybe 17, 18, 19, but there is no thought
0:37:38 > 0:37:46about that to any of the male characters. He is very fixated
0:37:46 > 0:37:50specifically an 18-year-old women and sometimes younger than that. It
0:37:50 > 0:37:58is him challenging... It is the bare minimum of legality.And he knows
0:37:58 > 0:38:02that the public can view these, he knows that these boxes can be
0:38:02 > 0:38:12examined?This is the weird thing. His defense against Dylan Farrow's
0:38:12 > 0:38:15accusations, what kind of person would do that? Why would any
0:38:15 > 0:38:21rational person do that? Also, why would any rational person writes
0:38:21 > 0:38:29their darkest sexual fantasies over the decades and submit it to a
0:38:29 > 0:38:38library for public perusal?Or put it on film.I wonder if you think
0:38:38 > 0:38:46that a film like Manhattan could ever be made now?Gosh, I hope not.
0:38:46 > 0:38:51I certainly think there would be a lot of scrutiny about it and I hope
0:38:51 > 0:38:56it wouldn't be made because you know, in many states, having sacks
0:38:56 > 0:39:03with a woman under 18 is considered statutory
0:39:03 > 0:39:16statutory rape. We think of it as... I don't know if he was in his 40s,
0:39:16 > 0:39:23it was a 30-year-old age difference, the idea of him dating a 17-year-old
0:39:23 > 0:39:26girl, not thinking it is wildly inappropriate and yet it is a crime
0:39:26 > 0:39:32in many places.Whatever comes out of this TV interview, do you think
0:39:32 > 0:39:39Woody Allen's career is now over?I think Woody Allen's career is going
0:39:39 > 0:39:44to be a series of people asking anyone who works with him why they
0:39:44 > 0:39:49have worked with Woody Allen.Thank you for joining us.
0:39:49 > 0:39:52And before we go time for a quick Viewsnight.
0:39:52 > 0:39:53Tonight, Masha Gessen, New Yorker writer and author
0:39:53 > 0:39:55of The Future is History: How Totalitarianism Reclaimed
0:39:55 > 0:39:57Russia, who argues that opponents of Donald Trump are fooling
0:39:57 > 0:40:00themselves if they think the Russia investigation is a magic bullet
0:40:00 > 0:40:03to remove the president.
0:42:10 > 0:42:12That's all we have time for.
0:42:12 > 0:42:13Mark Urban is here tomorrrow.
0:42:13 > 0:42:19Goodnight.