19/01/2018

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0:00:07 > 0:00:13Is there something wrong with the way we prosecute rape?

0:00:13 > 0:00:15For the fourth time in four weeks the case against a man accused

0:00:15 > 0:00:18of the crime has collapsed.

0:00:18 > 0:00:22I asked the Director of Public Prosecutions what's going on.

0:00:22 > 0:00:26Some information came to us very late in the day,

0:00:26 > 0:00:30as in only just before we made the decision to stop the case.

0:00:30 > 0:00:33What should have happened is that all should have

0:00:33 > 0:00:35happened much earlier.

0:00:35 > 0:00:38And for that I can only apologise.

0:00:38 > 0:00:4212 months on - President Trump's administration is just hours away

0:00:42 > 0:00:43from a government shutdown tonight.

0:00:43 > 0:00:46But how should we assess his year in the White House?

0:00:46 > 0:00:51We'll ask our panel to show us their score cards.

0:00:51 > 0:00:54And - as Boris Johnson announces his latest transport vision,

0:00:54 > 0:00:57a humble bridge over the English Channel,

0:00:57 > 0:01:00we despatched Steve Smith to discover how his previous

0:01:00 > 0:01:02brainwaves have gone down.

0:01:02 > 0:01:04OK, so what are we doing?

0:01:04 > 0:01:07Select a bicycle.

0:01:07 > 0:01:10Now what?

0:01:10 > 0:01:17OK, good, that was easy.

0:01:18 > 0:01:20Lucky Londoners have had or almost had a Boris Bike,

0:01:20 > 0:01:22Boris Bridge, Boris Island, the Boris Bus.

0:01:22 > 0:01:30And now he's planning a Channel crossing, it seems.

0:01:35 > 0:01:37Good evening.

0:01:37 > 0:01:40"Injustice anywhere", wrote Martin Luther King,

0:01:40 > 0:01:44"is a threat to justice everywhere".

0:01:44 > 0:01:47Sometimes the cry of injustice is raised by the accused,

0:01:47 > 0:01:49sometimes by victims.

0:01:49 > 0:01:52But this week, unusually, we've heard it from both

0:01:52 > 0:01:55sides in rape trials.

0:01:55 > 0:01:58For many, today's government announcement that it will not

0:01:58 > 0:02:02challenge the parole board's decision to free the 'black Cab

0:02:02 > 0:02:05rapist' John Worboys, is inexplicable.

0:02:05 > 0:02:08Lawyers for two of Worboys' victims have said they instead

0:02:08 > 0:02:12will challenge the decision to release him.

0:02:12 > 0:02:14And around the same time that the government

0:02:14 > 0:02:16abandoned its Worboys challenge, prosecutors in Guildford

0:02:16 > 0:02:22formally dropped their case against a man accused of rape.

0:02:22 > 0:02:28Oliver Mears became the fourth man in four weeks to have long-standing

0:02:28 > 0:02:31charges against him dropped shortly before trial because of the late

0:02:31 > 0:02:36discovery of information suggesting his innocence.

0:02:36 > 0:02:39We'll hear from the Director of Public Prosecutions in a moment,

0:02:39 > 0:02:42asking whether her service - far from defending the interests

0:02:42 > 0:02:44of victims and accused alike - is actually failing both,

0:02:44 > 0:02:49but first here's Chris Cook.

0:02:49 > 0:02:54Concern about the police and Crown Prosecution Service 's handling of

0:02:54 > 0:02:59French charges has been mounting on several fronts lately, a month ago,

0:02:59 > 0:03:03the police said they were reviewing 30 rape trials that were about to

0:03:03 > 0:03:07start, the donor what they have concluded, but we know this,

0:03:07 > 0:03:1019-year-old Oliver Mears learned the case against had dropped after new

0:03:10 > 0:03:16evidence, diary, was nervous, and by now he has all the spent years on

0:03:16 > 0:03:24bail. -- on earth. Earlier this week another case collapsed after photos

0:03:24 > 0:03:28on a phone undermined the case, pictures and the found by an expert

0:03:28 > 0:03:33hired by the defence, and in September a case of sexual activity

0:03:33 > 0:03:38against a child was dropped after a text showed the alleged victim had

0:03:38 > 0:03:44lied about her age. And here is the Allen, in his case the police failed

0:03:44 > 0:03:47to disclose text messages which cast doubt on vague allegations made

0:03:47 > 0:03:54against him. -- rape.In the last few years I've worried about this

0:03:54 > 0:04:01and nothing else is has ripped my personal life.In 2010-11 there were

0:04:01 > 0:04:054200 prosecutions for rape and two and a half thousand led to

0:04:05 > 0:04:08convictions and since then the number of prosecutions has risen to

0:04:08 > 0:04:14roughly 5200 year which has led to around 3000 convictions, the share

0:04:14 > 0:04:16prosecutions leading to convictions has not substantially changed over

0:04:16 > 0:04:21this period even as the volumes have risen but prosecutions have also not

0:04:21 > 0:04:27kept up with the rising rate in which the crime is being reported,

0:04:27 > 0:04:33and the police recorded 24,000 complaints of rape in 2015-16, there

0:04:33 > 0:04:36is also the question for the CPS around the release of John Worboys,

0:04:36 > 0:04:42by the parole board. Today we learn his knees would not be challenged by

0:04:42 > 0:04:45the government although victims are bringing a judicial review -- his

0:04:45 > 0:04:51release.After taking expert legal advice I decided it would not be

0:04:51 > 0:04:54appropriate for me as the Secretary of State to proceed with such a

0:04:54 > 0:04:59case, an honourable members will appreciate I can't expose details of

0:04:59 > 0:05:03the legal advice I have been given, and I know this will disappoint the

0:05:03 > 0:05:07victims in this case and members of this House. Given the crimes for

0:05:07 > 0:05:12which he has been convicted, on a personal level, candidly, I share

0:05:12 > 0:05:17those concerns.John Worboys was tried for just a small number of the

0:05:17 > 0:05:21offences for which he was a suspect and had he been convicted on further

0:05:21 > 0:05:25counts whether as part of the first trial or since he could have been

0:05:25 > 0:05:27imprisoned for longer and further evidence could have been deployed

0:05:27 > 0:05:31against him before the parole board which released him, but the

0:05:31 > 0:05:34challenge for the CPS is whether they should have tried to mount more

0:05:34 > 0:05:39prosecutions against John Worboys. All in all a lot of questions to

0:05:39 > 0:05:48answer. STUDIO: Chris Cook, there.

0:05:50 > 0:05:52Alison Saunders is the Director of Public Prosecutions -

0:05:52 > 0:05:55I spoke to her earlier today and started by asking her why

0:05:55 > 0:05:57the Oliver Mears case had collapsed.

0:05:57 > 0:05:59It wasn't a disclosure as in late disclosure of material

0:05:59 > 0:06:03but it was about looking at the case again, and reviewing it.

0:06:03 > 0:06:06As we have a constant duty to actually review cases and make

0:06:06 > 0:06:11sure they still satisfy the code for Crown prosecutors.

0:06:11 > 0:06:14But there was some late material that came through and when we looked

0:06:14 > 0:06:16at everything again, decided that it was not sufficient

0:06:16 > 0:06:17evidence to prosecute.

0:06:17 > 0:06:19What should have happened in that case, of course,

0:06:19 > 0:06:22was that it all should have happened much earlier.

0:06:22 > 0:06:25And I quite understand and I can imagine how distressing it must be

0:06:25 > 0:06:27for everybody involved, all of the parties.

0:06:27 > 0:06:28Two years of waiting.

0:06:28 > 0:06:35Absolutely. And that shouldn't have happened.

0:06:35 > 0:06:38And that's why we are looking at, how we make sure that disclosure,

0:06:38 > 0:06:41which hasn't been going right across the whole system,

0:06:41 > 0:06:47how that really should happen much earlier in the proceedings.

0:06:47 > 0:06:51In terms of what happened in the Mears case, when you said

0:06:51 > 0:06:54that information arose at a certain point later on, was that during that

0:06:54 > 0:06:56two years we're talking about or was it late

0:06:56 > 0:06:58on in the original investigation?

0:06:58 > 0:07:00Some information came to us very late in the day,

0:07:00 > 0:07:05as in only just before we made the decision to stop the case.

0:07:05 > 0:07:07What should have happened is that all should have

0:07:07 > 0:07:09happened much earlier.

0:07:09 > 0:07:13And for that I can only apologise to all who were involved in the case

0:07:13 > 0:07:16because we should have made sure we had done that earlier

0:07:16 > 0:07:18and taken those decisions earlier to stop the case.

0:07:18 > 0:07:21Is it essentially, in your view, a resource issue?

0:07:21 > 0:07:26I don't think it's just a resource issue.

0:07:26 > 0:07:29I think there are real issues for all of us to think about,

0:07:29 > 0:07:32how do we deal with this new issue.

0:07:32 > 0:07:35We all wonder around with phones or tablets or some sort of device.

0:07:35 > 0:07:37We live our lives on these things now and they're often

0:07:37 > 0:07:45as big as computers.

0:07:45 > 0:07:47So, it's about, how do we possibly look through...

0:07:47 > 0:07:53How do the police look through all of that?

0:07:53 > 0:07:56How do we find that needle in a sort of huge data haystack?

0:07:56 > 0:07:58And how do we know that it's relevant?

0:07:58 > 0:08:01And also, if it's your telephone, or your tablet, do you want people

0:08:01 > 0:08:04going through your whole life when actually some of it is not

0:08:04 > 0:08:06relevant and is never going to be relevant?

0:08:06 > 0:08:08You said resources aren't the only issue, clearly,

0:08:08 > 0:08:10but are you concerned that the police don't

0:08:10 > 0:08:12actually have the resources, to go through phones and social

0:08:12 > 0:08:15media material in the quantities they would have to to give both

0:08:15 > 0:08:23sides in a case like this a fair trial?

0:08:23 > 0:08:26I certainly think if it was a blanket, you have to look

0:08:26 > 0:08:28at all this material, we wouldn't have the resources

0:08:28 > 0:08:31and cases wouldn't be brought before the court because it would just

0:08:31 > 0:08:38drown us in material.

0:08:38 > 0:08:42Which is where we have to balance what we can do with a fair trial.

0:08:42 > 0:08:46Which is why that targeted aspect to look at what's relevant

0:08:46 > 0:08:54and making sure that when we get what's relevant we disclose that.

0:08:57 > 0:09:00So the defendant and dean know what and why, so they can question

0:09:00 > 0:09:02it if we miss something or if they know

0:09:02 > 0:09:03something that we don't.

0:09:03 > 0:09:06Now, clearly, what you're trying to do in these cases is look

0:09:06 > 0:09:09at the rights of the accused but we've also seen in the news

0:09:09 > 0:09:11a very different equation with the rights of victims.

0:09:11 > 0:09:13In the John Worboys case, for example.

0:09:13 > 0:09:14Hearing what the Justice Secretary said today...

0:09:14 > 0:09:18I know you don't run the parole board, you look at it as an informed

0:09:18 > 0:09:21observer, but do you understand why they won't give their reasons

0:09:21 > 0:09:22in a case like the Worboys?

0:09:22 > 0:09:24As far as the parole board is concerned,

0:09:24 > 0:09:28it is outside my authority.

0:09:28 > 0:09:31I don't oversee it, I don't understand why the decisions are not

0:09:31 > 0:09:34transparent and that's a matter for the government.

0:09:34 > 0:09:37The Lord Chancellor has said he's going to look into that.

0:09:37 > 0:09:42One of the things which is hard for people to understand

0:09:42 > 0:09:45about the Worboys case is why only such a small proportion

0:09:45 > 0:09:47of the original victims saw their cases coming into court.

0:09:47 > 0:09:50Do you think more of them should have been prosecuted?

0:09:50 > 0:09:53More of those cases.

0:09:53 > 0:09:57We've looked back over the decision and we had somewhere in the region

0:09:57 > 0:10:00of 83 individual complainants referred to us.

0:10:00 > 0:10:04We prosecuted 14 of those.

0:10:04 > 0:10:07Of those 83 that were originally referred to us, we couldn't

0:10:07 > 0:10:09prosecute the rest because there wasn't sufficient evidence.

0:10:09 > 0:10:13It did not satisfy the code for Crown prosecutors.

0:10:13 > 0:10:15Where we have to have a realistic prospect of conviction.

0:10:15 > 0:10:17So, we couldn't do that.

0:10:17 > 0:10:19There were three cases which were referred whilst

0:10:19 > 0:10:24we were in trial which we did not prosecute for public interest

0:10:24 > 0:10:31grounds because we felt it wasn't going to add to the sentence and it

0:10:31 > 0:10:33may complicate the case that was already before

0:10:33 > 0:10:34the court.

0:10:34 > 0:10:36So, I think we made the right decisions from the evidence

0:10:36 > 0:10:39that we had at that time, having looked at

0:10:39 > 0:10:40the review decision.

0:10:40 > 0:10:43Is there any way that either those three or cases that might have

0:10:43 > 0:10:45emerged subsequently, could still be put

0:10:45 > 0:10:46forward for prosecution?

0:10:46 > 0:10:49I mean, we have certainly said that we will review any cases

0:10:49 > 0:10:51that the police might want to refer to us.

0:10:51 > 0:10:53And indeed we are talking to the police about,

0:10:53 > 0:10:56if there is any action that can be taken or giving them advice

0:10:56 > 0:10:58if they are asking for it.

0:10:58 > 0:11:01So, if we get anything new or we look at it again,

0:11:01 > 0:11:04if we are asked to look at it again, we will look at it in

0:11:04 > 0:11:05accordance with the code.

0:11:05 > 0:11:08But just to be clear, you're saying that is an ongoing

0:11:08 > 0:11:10conversation with the police in this case?

0:11:10 > 0:11:12It is an ongoing conversation, but of course, if we decided

0:11:12 > 0:11:14there wasn't sufficient evidence, we've got to have evidence

0:11:14 > 0:11:16to take before the courts.

0:11:16 > 0:11:17There will have to be something new.

0:11:17 > 0:11:21Thank you very much.Thank you.That was the Director of Public

0:11:21 > 0:11:25Prosecutions.

0:11:25 > 0:11:28The Trump administration is a year old, and never a dull moment.

0:11:28 > 0:11:31As if to prove that very point, on the eve of his anniversary

0:11:31 > 0:11:35tonight his administration looks to be hours away from a government

0:11:35 > 0:11:41shutdown as it struggles to pass an emergency budget bill.

0:11:41 > 0:11:45But while the hacks who try to cover Trump's presidency reel from one

0:11:45 > 0:11:48tweet or leak-inspired moment to another - sometimes

0:11:48 > 0:11:52several times in a day - what has he actually achieved?

0:11:52 > 0:11:56And how far has he been able to satisfy the voters who sent him

0:11:56 > 0:12:01to Washington with the mission to 'make America great again'?

0:12:01 > 0:12:05The language may be coarser and the lines between business

0:12:05 > 0:12:09and presidential interests blurred, but perhaps the most salient feature

0:12:09 > 0:12:12of this first year is the degree to which his achievements have

0:12:12 > 0:12:16rested on going with the grain in Washington rather

0:12:16 > 0:12:20than draining its swamp.

0:12:20 > 0:12:24The President of the United States!

0:12:24 > 0:12:28One year on, and wrangling over budgets has left the federal

0:12:28 > 0:12:31government on the verge of a close down.

0:12:31 > 0:12:33It's drama, but it's also business as usual in Washington.

0:12:33 > 0:12:37Presidents Obama and Clinton faced the same crisis.

0:12:37 > 0:12:40And it's a measure of the power that holding the purse

0:12:40 > 0:12:43strings gives Congress, whatever Trump might have said

0:12:43 > 0:12:48on the campaign trail.

0:12:48 > 0:12:52Where better to escape the pressures of the office than the golf course?

0:12:52 > 0:12:58A lot of pressure, so, a lot of golfing.

0:12:58 > 0:13:05As for breaking the mould in presidential communications,

0:13:05 > 0:13:08there's been plenty of that, too, often via early

0:13:08 > 0:13:09morning tweet storms.

0:13:09 > 0:13:11That hasn't bolstered historically low approval ratings, of course.

0:13:11 > 0:13:16The most immediate salient thing to say about Donald Trump's approval

0:13:16 > 0:13:18rating is that it is historically bad.

0:13:18 > 0:13:22A lot of people get a honeymoon period.

0:13:22 > 0:13:26The best he had was basically breaking even to start off with.

0:13:26 > 0:13:31His approval ratings have been more stable throughout the year

0:13:31 > 0:13:34than is traditionally something that you'd see because they didn't have

0:13:34 > 0:13:38much further to sink.

0:13:38 > 0:13:42His base does remain solid even if he hasn't built that wall.

0:13:42 > 0:13:44And the popularity is partly due to roaring

0:13:44 > 0:13:47economic performance.

0:13:47 > 0:13:50Make America great again, and that's what it is.

0:13:50 > 0:13:52That's what it is, just make America great again!

0:13:52 > 0:13:54He will, it's going to be great.

0:13:54 > 0:13:58We will make America great again.

0:13:58 > 0:14:00He's a good businessman and that's what the country needs.

0:14:00 > 0:14:02To get the thing, get the country back

0:14:02 > 0:14:05out of debt and get a lot of people working.

0:14:05 > 0:14:13I think that's what he's doing.

0:14:13 > 0:14:15It's the economy, stupid, did you ever hear that one?

0:14:15 > 0:14:16It's the economy.

0:14:16 > 0:14:20It is indeed.

0:14:20 > 0:14:27He's doing something that no one other

0:14:27 > 0:14:30politician has ever done he's keeping his promises to the people.

0:14:30 > 0:14:33And partly due to delivery on deregulation and tax cuts.

0:14:33 > 0:14:38The area where, right from the outset of his

0:14:38 > 0:14:40presidency, it was clear that the Republican control of

0:14:40 > 0:14:42Congress would help rather than hinder the president.

0:14:42 > 0:14:44On Russia, for example, hawkish senators have made

0:14:44 > 0:14:52it impossible for Trump to improve relations with the Kremlin.

0:14:52 > 0:14:53With sanctions staying in place and the

0:14:53 > 0:14:55US going further in arming the Ukrainians

0:14:55 > 0:14:58than Barack Obama did.

0:14:58 > 0:15:01And when it comes to military or intelligence matters, the spooks

0:15:01 > 0:15:06have also pushed back on the Russia policy and the Pentagon has largely

0:15:06 > 0:15:10written its own rules for escalating counterterrorist operations.

0:15:10 > 0:15:11In reality, his policy is actually not

0:15:11 > 0:15:12particularly radical.

0:15:12 > 0:15:14His policies don't really reflect the rhetoric

0:15:14 > 0:15:16that you see on his Twitter account.

0:15:16 > 0:15:19In fact we've seen a considerable amount of continuity from the Obama

0:15:19 > 0:15:27administration.

0:15:27 > 0:15:29So while the President's people might point to

0:15:29 > 0:15:31wins on the tax code or deregulation, what is really

0:15:31 > 0:15:33notable is how far things have strayed the same.

0:15:33 > 0:15:35Despite the

0:15:35 > 0:15:37campaign promises to drain the swamp all radically change the way power

0:15:37 > 0:15:45is bargained inside the Beltway.

0:15:47 > 0:15:50So how do things look from America - and what can we expect for the next

0:15:50 > 0:15:53three years of Trump's presidency?

0:15:53 > 0:15:56Joining me from Boston is former New York Times executive

0:15:56 > 0:15:58editor Jill Abramson.

0:15:58 > 0:16:00In Miami is Matthew Oberly from the Young Republican

0:16:00 > 0:16:07National Federation.

0:16:07 > 0:16:09And we'll also be speaking to Wendy Osefo, a political

0:16:09 > 0:16:11commentator who worked on the Obama Administration's

0:16:11 > 0:16:13antipoverty initiative - she's in Washington.

0:16:13 > 0:16:20Jill, can I start with you? Do you see a single redeeming thing about

0:16:20 > 0:16:28the Trump presidency during this first year?Very little. The strong

0:16:28 > 0:16:33economy obviously is a big plus, but I don't really think President Trump

0:16:33 > 0:16:41can take much credit for it. And if the economy is doing so well, why on

0:16:41 > 0:16:50earth do we need a big tax cut for the billionaire class? I don't see

0:16:50 > 0:16:55much, and, you know, I really feel in the past year that as President

0:16:55 > 0:17:01Donald Trump has shown himself completely unsuitable to the job.

0:17:01 > 0:17:07And I disagree with the idea in your piece that things haven't changed

0:17:07 > 0:17:15very much. Because he pulled out of the Paris treaty and the

0:17:15 > 0:17:22environment... It's been a disaster. He named a new US Supreme Court

0:17:22 > 0:17:28justice, but one who is extremely right-wing.That is also an area

0:17:28 > 0:17:35where the congressional Republican caucus... Congress was keen to work

0:17:35 > 0:17:39with him on, whereas in other areas, where they don't wish to cooperate

0:17:39 > 0:17:42or can't agree an answer, like health care, he hasn't achieved

0:17:42 > 0:17:49change.Thank goodness health care wasn't repealed. Although through

0:17:49 > 0:17:55other means they have tried to take away some of the major provisions of

0:17:55 > 0:18:00the Obama health care law. And I think America's standing in the

0:18:00 > 0:18:05world has been hurt during the past year.How would you measure that?I

0:18:05 > 0:18:13would measure it...In what index would you measure that hurts to

0:18:13 > 0:18:16America's standing?Well I mentioned a minute ago the Paris Accord,

0:18:16 > 0:18:23pulling out of that. America had been one of the leaders in the world

0:18:23 > 0:18:32towards reducing green gases. And now it's not.OK...I think that he

0:18:32 > 0:18:34is undependable and people are scared to death about what's

0:18:34 > 0:18:40happening in North Korea right now. Matthew, I believe, I do want to ask

0:18:40 > 0:18:45you about North Korea, but before we go on to that, surely, clearly, you

0:18:45 > 0:18:50like the man, you think is achieving something. Surely you would concede

0:18:50 > 0:18:55he is a uniquely divisive and polarising figure.I would say he is

0:18:55 > 0:19:00a unique figure, I wouldn't call him a deeply polarising figure. If we

0:19:00 > 0:19:03want to really get down to measurable results, the president

0:19:03 > 0:19:09has taken, basically warped, the regulatory burden that stops small

0:19:09 > 0:19:13businesses and entrepreneurs from succeeding and put money back into

0:19:13 > 0:19:18the middle class, into their pockets, be it $500, $200 or

0:19:18 > 0:19:23thousands of dollars. Talk about health care, people who are healthy,

0:19:23 > 0:19:27who might not need health care, are going to have that penalty put back

0:19:27 > 0:19:32in their pockets. I truly believe that the American way is to allow

0:19:32 > 0:19:37the people to decide if, you know, they want to have health care or

0:19:37 > 0:19:42not. I wouldn't call him a polarising figure. I think a lot of

0:19:42 > 0:19:47where we see the polarisation coming from is the media. You've got media

0:19:47 > 0:19:53on the left and right. I truly believe that... I can't, I can't

0:19:53 > 0:20:00agree that he's a polarising...On the North Korea point that Jill

0:20:00 > 0:20:07made, we were looking at some CBS polling before we came on air saying

0:20:07 > 0:20:1159% of Americans disapprove of the way he's dealing with that issue.

0:20:11 > 0:20:14It's a thing that scares a lot of people including Republicans, isn't

0:20:14 > 0:20:21it? The land which he has used on North Korea?I hate to say it but

0:20:21 > 0:20:26when the leader, dictator of North Korea, can just lob missiles over a

0:20:26 > 0:20:31sovereign nation such as Japan, I truly think we need to hammer down

0:20:31 > 0:20:35some tough language and reminds this guy that that's not allowable on the

0:20:35 > 0:20:40global stage. I think his rhetoric is strong.Can you briefly afford to

0:20:40 > 0:20:45do that kind of tough talking with two nuclear armed states facing off

0:20:45 > 0:20:50against one another where misconception could lead to

0:20:50 > 0:20:54disaster?It could lead to disaster... That is a vague

0:20:54 > 0:21:02statement. We have to remind him, frankly we have to remind other

0:21:02 > 0:21:05dictators that this behaviour isn't allowable and we will do what is

0:21:05 > 0:21:12needed to make sure not only America is safe, but our citizens are safe

0:21:12 > 0:21:18when they go abroad. I think he's using tough language.I want to

0:21:18 > 0:21:25bring in Wendy from Washington. Looking at this from a Democrat

0:21:25 > 0:21:30supporter bases, as you do, how are you going to win in the midterm is

0:21:30 > 0:21:34coming up this year? Wouldn't you expect the Democratic party to be

0:21:34 > 0:21:40showing more strongly in the polls? Given how bad the President's

0:21:40 > 0:21:45approval rating is. What is missing in their campaign?The Democratic

0:21:45 > 0:21:48party is showing strongly in the polls because the president has had

0:21:48 > 0:21:52a dreadful year. He's endorsed a child molester in Alabama, waged a

0:21:52 > 0:21:56war against a free press. He had dilapidated his own local party.

0:21:56 > 0:22:02He's given the thumbs up to white to premises and continues to put a hole

0:22:02 > 0:22:07in our democracy. It's very difficult to do a good job. It's

0:22:07 > 0:22:11easy to tell something apart. Our president has chosen the latter.

0:22:11 > 0:22:14That is the issue. When it comes to midterms the Democrats are going to

0:22:14 > 0:22:17forge ahead. When we look at the special collections that have

0:22:17 > 0:22:22happened thus far, in Virginia the Democrats won, in Alabama the

0:22:22 > 0:22:25Democrats won, these are ruby red states that were not supposed to be

0:22:25 > 0:22:29won at all by the Democrats. If the special collections are any

0:22:29 > 0:22:32indication of the tidal wave coming for the Republican Party, the

0:22:32 > 0:22:36midterms are going to be something in which you will see a big turn.

0:22:36 > 0:22:42There is lots of Republican seats up for re-election. If they want to

0:22:42 > 0:22:46keep their seats I would suggest they tell their party president to

0:22:46 > 0:22:52put a button on it and stop with this and move forward with policy.

0:22:52 > 0:22:56He pointed to one or two areas of the country where the Democrats are

0:22:56 > 0:22:58showing well, in special collections. Clearly they were

0:22:58 > 0:23:05pretty hammered back in the last nationwide election. What is missing

0:23:05 > 0:23:09at national level? Where is the leadership? There is no one clearly

0:23:09 > 0:23:15embodying the Democratic challenge to the president at national level.

0:23:15 > 0:23:23We have leadership. What you're going to C in 2020 is what we saw in

0:23:23 > 0:23:272016. You will see a wave of Democrats come up and say they want

0:23:27 > 0:23:33to invigorate the nation by running. But what's going to happen, and I'm

0:23:33 > 0:23:38going to call this ahead of time, is anyone who decide they are going to

0:23:38 > 0:23:42lead the Democratic party has to embody more than just a movement,

0:23:42 > 0:23:46they have to ignite to people, they have to put that same hokum that

0:23:46 > 0:23:51same feeling of change, similar to that of Barack Obama. What we have

0:23:51 > 0:23:57seen with Donald Trump is he's been highly divisive, he's got a lot of

0:23:57 > 0:24:03rhetoric that has a power country, so whoever wins this election is

0:24:03 > 0:24:09somebody who brings us together and forges a message of unity and hope.

0:24:09 > 0:24:16That's what we need right now in a leader.Matthew, can I ask you, a

0:24:16 > 0:24:21lot of Republicans one speaks to on imply that if the party takes a

0:24:21 > 0:24:25beating in the midterms it'll be over in terms of the Trump

0:24:25 > 0:24:29presidency. It'll be hobbled from that point onwards. How concerned

0:24:29 > 0:24:36are you buy that possibility?You want to talk about the government

0:24:36 > 0:24:42shutting down. Americans need nine Democrats, Americans, not President

0:24:42 > 0:24:50Trump or Paul Ryan, America needs nine Congressman to keep Democrats,

0:24:50 > 0:24:54to keep the government from shutting down while the GOP holds a majority

0:24:54 > 0:25:00in Congress. We can't do it without Democrats. Americans can't do it

0:25:00 > 0:25:04without Democrats, and I think that is the real important point to make

0:25:04 > 0:25:08right now. We need to prevent this government shuts down and the

0:25:08 > 0:25:13Republicans can't stop Chuck Schumer from shutting it down. We need

0:25:13 > 0:25:20Democrats to rise up and work for Americans. And prevent the

0:25:20 > 0:25:25government from shutting down. In 2018 and we're going to be able, as

0:25:25 > 0:25:29the Republican party, to go forward and say, you know, the Democrats

0:25:29 > 0:25:32didn't rise up to prevent a government shutdown, the Democrats

0:25:32 > 0:25:39didn't rise up and enable those able to protect us to protect us.Jill

0:25:39 > 0:25:44Abramson let's come back to this discussion we had with Wendy about

0:25:44 > 0:25:48the leadership. Of course you expect a front runner to emerge when the

0:25:48 > 0:25:54presidential nomination race gets underway in earnest. But you can

0:25:54 > 0:26:00send...After the 2018 elections.. Indeed but are you concerned there

0:26:00 > 0:26:02don't seem to be the obvious national figures and contenders

0:26:02 > 0:26:08pushing their way to the front, that there isn't that national opposition

0:26:08 > 0:26:16to President Trump right now?I think that is a good point. I'm not

0:26:16 > 0:26:23here as a partisan spokesman, so I'm not going to say it alarms me, but

0:26:23 > 0:26:27Democrats in much of the country, that have been so shocked and

0:26:27 > 0:26:33disappointed by President Trump, they're aching for some inspiration.

0:26:33 > 0:26:39They really are. And you're right, so far there isn't unifying

0:26:39 > 0:26:44Democratic a candidate who has urged to get people very excited. But

0:26:44 > 0:26:51there is still, you know, quite a bit of time.

0:26:51 > 0:26:55bit of time.Thank you all very much for joining us, Jill Abramson,

0:26:55 > 0:26:57Matthew Oberly and Wendy Osefo.

0:26:57 > 0:27:00Say what you like about Boris Johnson, he's never been

0:27:00 > 0:27:03at a loss for an idea on how to get people from A to B.

0:27:03 > 0:27:06Londoners are familiar with 'Boris bikes', 'Boris island' -

0:27:06 > 0:27:08site of a proposed airport - and the former Mayor's enthusiasm

0:27:08 > 0:27:16for a 'garden bridge' over the Thames, since scrapped.

0:27:16 > 0:27:19But it seems the Foreign Secretary excelled himself during an encounter

0:27:19 > 0:27:21with the French president this week, raising the prospect of a fixed

0:27:21 > 0:27:24link across the Channel, a dream which has tantalised

0:27:24 > 0:27:26generations of engineers and decision-makers.

0:27:26 > 0:27:29Number ten has let it be known that Theresa May isn't about to cut

0:27:29 > 0:27:32the ribbon on such a scheme anytime soon - but could a cross-channel

0:27:32 > 0:27:33bridge go the distance?

0:27:33 > 0:27:41It's going to be a stretch, cautions Stephen Smith.

0:27:47 > 0:27:52The great Victorian engineers built railways in the cities.

0:27:52 > 0:27:54The foundations of our industry and infrastructure.

0:27:54 > 0:27:57But not even they got around to a grand bridge over

0:27:57 > 0:28:05the sea to France.

0:28:05 > 0:28:07But the Foreign Secretary, at home, at sea or on

0:28:07 > 0:28:15land is apparently thinking big.

0:28:16 > 0:28:19Lucky Londoners have had, or almost had, a Boris bike, Boris Bridge,

0:28:19 > 0:28:22Boris Island, the Boris bus, and now he is planning a channel crossing,

0:28:22 > 0:28:29it seems.

0:28:29 > 0:28:31So is he the Telford, the Kingdom Brunel of our day?

0:28:31 > 0:28:39Or is this a bridge too far?

0:28:42 > 0:28:44The idea of a bridge over the channel isn't new.

0:28:44 > 0:28:49Here is something from a 70s drawing board.

0:28:49 > 0:28:52This design from the 80s imagines a bridge running out into

0:28:52 > 0:28:54the sea as far as a man-made island.

0:28:54 > 0:28:56From there, a corkscrew chamber led to an underwater tunnel.

0:28:56 > 0:28:58With matching infrastructure on the French side.

0:28:58 > 0:29:01And this is how the design team here at Newsnight see

0:29:01 > 0:29:08the Boris bridge.

0:29:08 > 0:29:10In sharp contrast to recent high-level thinking, this

0:29:10 > 0:29:13has just been thrown together.

0:29:13 > 0:29:15We're an island nation with a proud history of maritime engineering.

0:29:15 > 0:29:21Is a bridge to France beyond us?

0:29:21 > 0:29:23In principle it is feasible, because there have

0:29:23 > 0:29:24been similar project in

0:29:24 > 0:29:28the past.

0:29:28 > 0:29:31I should mention perhaps the best-known one is probably the

0:29:31 > 0:29:32one in Louisiana in the United States.

0:29:32 > 0:29:35Which is a bridge with a total length of about 25 miles.

0:29:35 > 0:29:37So it is really more or less the size

0:29:37 > 0:29:45we are talking about for the English Channel.

0:29:49 > 0:29:50Boris Johnson has form with transport ideas.

0:29:50 > 0:29:55One design critic gave us his review.

0:29:55 > 0:29:57I think vision is good and I enjoy follies wherever

0:29:57 > 0:30:00they may be found, but I'm afraid Boris's record as a practical

0:30:00 > 0:30:02innovator in infrastructure is not all that great.

0:30:02 > 0:30:05I mean the famous Boris bikes, I mean they are quite

0:30:05 > 0:30:10good fun, but they have made zero impact on the amenity and facility

0:30:10 > 0:30:11of Londoners actually trying to do work.

0:30:11 > 0:30:14They are only used by lost tourists who don't know where they

0:30:14 > 0:30:15are going.

0:30:15 > 0:30:18And then of course there is Boris Island the famous airport,

0:30:18 > 0:30:20which again, like the supposed future Channel bridge, the Boris

0:30:20 > 0:30:21airport could be built.

0:30:21 > 0:30:23There is nothing wrong with that.

0:30:23 > 0:30:24But they were completely unfunded, the

0:30:24 > 0:30:26questions of infrastructure of roads and railways necessary to service

0:30:26 > 0:30:34it.

0:30:37 > 0:30:41Downing Street says there are no specific plans for Mr Johnson's

0:30:41 > 0:30:47Channel link, in other words, its chances are zip. It is a wistful

0:30:47 > 0:30:55might have been. A Bridge of sighs. The unabridged Steve Smith.

0:30:55 > 0:30:57That's about all we have time for tonight, but we leave

0:30:57 > 0:30:59you with the heartwarming tale of Transport Scotland's fleet

0:30:59 > 0:31:01of salt spraying heroes, their snow-defeating kings

0:31:01 > 0:31:02of the road, the gritters.

0:31:02 > 0:31:05Thousands were gripped today by an online map showing the exact

0:31:05 > 0:31:07location of the lorries - some of which have some

0:31:07 > 0:31:10imaginative names.

0:31:10 > 0:31:14So we say goodnight now to Gritty Gritty Bang Bang,

0:31:14 > 0:31:19Luke SnowWalker, Mrs McGritter and of course, Sir Andy Flurry -

0:31:19 > 0:31:21who are out again this evening keeping the roads safe.

0:31:21 > 0:31:24Goodnight.