0:00:04 > 0:00:06Tonight...
0:00:06 > 0:00:07Images of a massacre.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10Reuters publish the investigation that they say led to their reporters
0:00:10 > 0:00:13being jailed in Myanmar.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15They claim for the first time to have evidence
0:00:15 > 0:00:18from within the Burmese security forces themselves of attacks
0:00:18 > 0:00:21on the Rohingya carried out by them.
0:00:21 > 0:00:25The Editor-in-Chief of Reuters is here to tell us why they have
0:00:25 > 0:00:28published even while their reporters remain in a Burmese prison.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31It's here, it's there, it's everywhere.
0:00:31 > 0:00:36MPs are in Washington tackling the tech giants over fake news.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39One of the few people Donald Trump follows on Twitter is here to bite
0:00:39 > 0:00:43back against the mainstream media.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46And the power of the humble T-shirt - remember this unique one?
0:00:46 > 0:00:49The designer, campaigner and queen of the political tee,
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Katherine Hamnett, talks about the day she made
0:00:51 > 0:00:54it and wore it.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03Good evening.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07The Rohingya crisis has led at least half a million Rohingya Muslims
0:01:07 > 0:01:10to flee mainly Buddhist Myanmar in the past six months,
0:01:10 > 0:01:12escaping from a brutal military crackdown and the torching
0:01:12 > 0:01:15of whole villages.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19It has sullied the international reputation of Aung San Suu Kyi
0:01:19 > 0:01:23and has also posed grave risks for some of those covering it.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25In December of last year two journalists for the Reuters news
0:01:25 > 0:01:30agency were arrested in Myanmar - Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oe.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32They are still in jail, awaiting trial for allegedly
0:01:32 > 0:01:36obtaining confidential documents.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40It was known that the two journalists were covering
0:01:40 > 0:01:43the aftermath of some of the brutal violence against the Rohingya.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45But since their arrest rumours have circulated around what those
0:01:45 > 0:01:48journalists were investigating.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Tonight, Reuters have published what they believe is the real
0:01:51 > 0:01:54reason for their arrest, revealing the story that those
0:01:54 > 0:01:57journalists were working on - a detailed investigation into a mass
0:01:57 > 0:02:02execution in a village in Eastern Myanmar.
0:02:02 > 0:02:03And we've seen their report.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05Our reporter, James Clayton, is across the story
0:02:05 > 0:02:09and is with me now.
0:02:09 > 0:02:15What has happened tonight? Watchers have tonight decided to publish a
0:02:15 > 0:02:19story that it claims is on the international public interest and
0:02:19 > 0:02:23why they have published is they have been working on the story for weeks
0:02:23 > 0:02:29and they have been in touch with those journalists in Myanmar in a
0:02:29 > 0:02:31prison there and they say they have their consent to publish their
0:02:31 > 0:02:38story. What were they investigating? Reuters say the investigation is the
0:02:38 > 0:02:45first to obtain evidence from some of the perpetrators of this horrific
0:02:45 > 0:02:51violence so they spoke to police officers in Myanmar and Facebook to
0:02:51 > 0:02:55members of a paramilitary group and this spoke to local villagers in Inn
0:02:55 > 0:03:01Din and what they managed to amass was testimony of really quite nasty
0:03:01 > 0:03:06crimes and they implicate the military, they found pictures were
0:03:06 > 0:03:10given pictures of an execution before and after and they spoke to a
0:03:10 > 0:03:14local Buddhist man who confessed to the murder in cold blood of the
0:03:14 > 0:03:19Rohingya Muslim.Watchers say they have the consent of the journalists
0:03:19 > 0:03:22but they know the real reason they might have been arrested was the
0:03:22 > 0:03:27story they were working on.What might the consequences be? We do not
0:03:27 > 0:03:31know, it has literally just dropped. Clearly, Reuters are taking a
0:03:31 > 0:03:37calculated risk by publishing tonight. On the one hand I am sure
0:03:37 > 0:03:42watchers will say, this is the real reason why our journalists were
0:03:42 > 0:03:49arrested and on the other hand, the Myanmar government might say,
0:03:49 > 0:03:54actually, we don't like the story, it might anger them. And both
0:03:54 > 0:03:59journalists are being held by the authorities in Myanmar. We will
0:03:59 > 0:04:02speak to the editor in chief of Reuters but first of all, we have
0:04:02 > 0:04:09put together some of the claims that Reuters are making and a word of
0:04:09 > 0:04:13warning, some of these images are quite distressing...
0:04:13 > 0:04:15On the 12th of December last year, two Myanmar journalists working
0:04:15 > 0:04:19for the Reuters news agency, Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo,
0:04:19 > 0:04:21travelled to a restaurant in northern Yangon to meet
0:04:21 > 0:04:22two police officers.
0:04:22 > 0:04:29They never came home.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32They were arrested and later charged under the Official Secrets Act
0:04:32 > 0:04:36for allegedly obtaining confidential documents.
0:04:36 > 0:04:41They are being held in a jail in Yangon.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44Tonight, Reuters have published what they believe
0:04:44 > 0:04:46was the real reason for their journalists' arrests.
0:04:46 > 0:04:51An investigation that focused on the village of Inn Din.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54The violence that took place here in late August and early
0:04:54 > 0:04:56September last year was echoed across parts of northern
0:04:56 > 0:05:00Rakhine State.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02These before and after satellite images show the extent
0:05:02 > 0:05:05to which the Rohingya part of the village was
0:05:05 > 0:05:07burnt to the ground.
0:05:07 > 0:05:12Only the Buddhist area to the top left was spared.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15But what Reuters claimed to have found was even darker.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19Their journalists had been told by a number of sources that ten men
0:05:19 > 0:05:22had been picked up from a crowd of Rohingya Muslims -
0:05:22 > 0:05:24including fishermen, shopkeepers and students
0:05:24 > 0:05:27- and executed.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29Reuters claim that after a day of interrogation,
0:05:29 > 0:05:33they were led into a wood.
0:05:33 > 0:05:35Reuters say these images - that the agency has
0:05:35 > 0:05:37published tonight - were given to their journalists
0:05:37 > 0:05:38by a local Buddhist.
0:05:38 > 0:05:42We have decided to blur parts of this graphic image.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45It shows the ten men in a shallow mass grave.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49You can identify many of the men by the clothes they are wearing.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51Reuters journalists were told by the man who dug the pet that
0:05:51 > 0:05:55eight of the men were shot by soldiers and two were hacked
0:05:55 > 0:05:59to death by the villagers.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02Back in Myanmar's capital, Naypyidaw, at the same time
0:06:02 > 0:06:05as the journalists' arrests, Myanmar authorities were themselves
0:06:05 > 0:06:08looking into the execution.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10On the 10th of January the military announced
0:06:10 > 0:06:13on its Facebook page that they had undertaken their own investigation
0:06:13 > 0:06:16and that soldiers and local Buddhists had indeed taken part
0:06:16 > 0:06:19in the killings.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22But the military were forced to kill the "Bengali terrorists", they said,
0:06:22 > 0:06:26because police stations were being attacked by Rohingya
0:06:26 > 0:06:29militants and it was unsafe for them to transport them.
0:06:29 > 0:06:37A decision was made to kill them, says the military statement.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40But Reuters say that Buddhist villagers their journalists
0:06:40 > 0:06:44interviewed reported no attack by a large number of insurgents
0:06:44 > 0:06:47on security forces in Inn Din or that the ten men had any
0:06:47 > 0:06:51connection with terrorism.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53The news agency claims their journalists also gathered
0:06:53 > 0:06:56unique evidence of military involvement in attacks
0:06:56 > 0:06:58on Rohingya Muslims.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01Speaking to not only local villagers in Inn Din but police officers
0:07:01 > 0:07:05and members of the paramilitary.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08One man who spoke to the two journalists described finding four
0:07:08 > 0:07:10Rohingya Muslims hiding in a haystack.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13One of the men had a mobile phone.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17The soldiers told him to do whatever you want to them.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21"And so I started hacking him with a sword", he said.
0:07:21 > 0:07:28"A soldier shot him when he fell down".
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Reuters has cross-referenced testimony from Buddhists
0:07:31 > 0:07:35on the ground with Rohingya refugees over the border in Bangladesh.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38Newsnight is unable to verify the claims made by the agency.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41But Reuters claim that their account marks the first time soldiers
0:07:41 > 0:07:45and paramilitary police have been implicated by testimony
0:07:45 > 0:07:52from security personnel themselves.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58It is clear incarceration is taking its toll on Wa Lone
0:07:58 > 0:08:04and Kyaw Soe Oo and their families.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12Reuters believe that the evidence the journalists obtained is the real
0:08:12 > 0:08:15reason for their arrest.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17But the Myanmar authorities are continuing to pursue charges
0:08:17 > 0:08:19against the two journalists.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22Will telling this story help Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo?
0:08:22 > 0:08:30We will find out in court.
0:08:32 > 0:08:39A Myanmar government spokesman told Reuters...
0:08:42 > 0:08:45They added...
0:09:08 > 0:09:11Joining me now from New York is Stephen Adler,
0:09:11 > 0:09:15editor-in-chief of Reuters.
0:09:15 > 0:09:26Good evening. You heard James Clayton saying that, in fact, this
0:09:26 > 0:09:30is taking its toll on both men and I want where you decided to publish
0:09:30 > 0:09:35tonight?We believe this is a story of vast global importance and we
0:09:35 > 0:09:40have a responsibility to publish, that is what we do as journalists,
0:09:40 > 0:09:43we report stories fairly and honestly and we publish them and we
0:09:43 > 0:09:48thought it was important enough and Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo agreed and
0:09:48 > 0:09:52you will see that their names are on the story. Anybody can see the
0:09:52 > 0:10:00story. They fully support us publishing.A very brave thing for
0:10:00 > 0:10:04them and for their families to do so. I am sure you do not do this
0:10:04 > 0:10:10lightly, what is the next step for them?We certainly do not do this
0:10:10 > 0:10:16lightly, but we did not take the legal considerations into hand in
0:10:16 > 0:10:21deciding to publish. We are concerned about security but we
0:10:21 > 0:10:25believe that when the story is known by people that it will be helpful to
0:10:25 > 0:10:28them because it really gives a very careful, well sourced account of
0:10:28 > 0:10:33what happened and those facts support the idea that they were
0:10:33 > 0:10:39reporting, not violating any law. You think you have come upon the
0:10:39 > 0:10:43real reason for the arrests, that they had this material, and the
0:10:43 > 0:10:51authorities could go either way, as with that statement, if these
0:10:51 > 0:10:55investigations are true, they would move along the lines of the law that
0:10:55 > 0:11:04exists. What do you take to mean by that?Again, I think the point
0:11:04 > 0:11:10really is that we have to go forward and report the story and we have to
0:11:10 > 0:11:15tell the world about it. I think it provides a tremendously valuable
0:11:15 > 0:11:21service, our journalists agree with that and we think that as the facts
0:11:21 > 0:11:25come out, it will be favourable to our journalists and what we're doing
0:11:25 > 0:11:30but you must consider there are tremendous risks doing journalism
0:11:30 > 0:11:35anywhere in the world. Reuters journalists take that risk every
0:11:35 > 0:11:37time, like BBC journalists and journalists everywhere. That is part
0:11:37 > 0:11:42of the job and we are hopeful and we hope the government will release
0:11:42 > 0:11:48them shortly. I will also say that it is very important for the world
0:11:48 > 0:11:50community to care about this and governments all over the world will
0:11:50 > 0:11:56take an interest, representatives from many countries attended the
0:11:56 > 0:12:00last hearing and there is another next week and we are hopeful that
0:12:00 > 0:12:02the support we are getting and this information coming out will be
0:12:02 > 0:12:08helpful.What were the considerations? You talked to the
0:12:08 > 0:12:11journalists but what were the other considerations about how this story
0:12:11 > 0:12:19might progress?We are going to go forward and continue reporting on
0:12:19 > 0:12:24Myanmar, we won the Pulitzer Prize in 2014 for reporting on human
0:12:24 > 0:12:27trafficking of Rohingya Muslims and it is important to continue so while
0:12:27 > 0:12:32we have no certainty as to how things will proceed, we think it is
0:12:32 > 0:12:36our responsibility to give reporting.For the first time, who
0:12:36 > 0:12:42not only have members of the security forces but Buddhist, a
0:12:42 > 0:12:49villager, confessing to this involvement?If this is about the
0:12:49 > 0:12:53sourcing of the story...The significance of the information that
0:12:53 > 0:13:00has been found from the side of the Buddhists?I understand. What is
0:13:00 > 0:13:08important about this story is that we heard from Buddhist villagers and
0:13:08 > 0:13:11Rohingya Muslims and members of the military and police and what is so
0:13:11 > 0:13:15compelling about this story is the information that comes together for
0:13:15 > 0:13:20these different places so you are not seeing one or the other side
0:13:20 > 0:13:23presenting information but this story is being woven together with
0:13:23 > 0:13:27people and monitoring what happened and I think it is very important
0:13:27 > 0:13:31because I think this has often been seen as merely a conflict between
0:13:31 > 0:13:35two sides but there are facts here and we have established those facts
0:13:35 > 0:13:39by talking to many people on the ground using traditional reporting
0:13:39 > 0:13:43methods, just interviewing people. Thank you so much for joining us.
0:13:43 > 0:13:45I'm joined now by the Labour MP Rosena Allin-Khan,
0:13:45 > 0:13:50who has visited Rohingya refugee camps in Bangladesh.
0:13:50 > 0:13:57What is your response?This evidence we have seen mirrors the testimonies
0:13:57 > 0:14:01I have heard and the injuries I experienced when I went to work in
0:14:01 > 0:14:07the camps as a doctor. It is deeply upsetting, you have seen the images.
0:14:07 > 0:14:11This is not going to be the first such a card that we see, more and
0:14:11 > 0:14:15more evidence that this is going to unfold and currently we have been
0:14:15 > 0:14:21bystanders to a genocide.These reporters, in jail, they want the
0:14:21 > 0:14:27story out there?Let us be clear, this evidence marks a turning point
0:14:27 > 0:14:31because for the first time since they started to unfold in August, we
0:14:31 > 0:14:34have heard from the perpetrators themselves.We cannot deny this
0:14:34 > 0:14:41evidence. What does this tell us about what might move and change and
0:14:41 > 0:14:47also what the Burmese government said?
0:14:47 > 0:14:50The deep disappointment thus far is that it has been termed ethnic
0:14:50 > 0:14:54cleansing which is not a crime according to humanitarian law but
0:14:54 > 0:14:56nothing short of a referral to the International Criminal Court will
0:14:56 > 0:15:06bloom.Actually from the announcement -- will do. They do not
0:15:06 > 0:15:11deny that this might have happened and surely that is a move forward?
0:15:11 > 0:15:17To be honest, I place very little trust in what their government says.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20They conducted internal investigations last year that
0:15:20 > 0:15:23yielded results that showed that they were not guilty of any crimes.
0:15:23 > 0:15:28If they are happy to have an honest and transparent investigation, they
0:15:28 > 0:15:32need to allow external investigators to come into the country.Even the
0:15:32 > 0:15:36fact that for the first time they acknowledged the atrocities that
0:15:36 > 0:15:40have taken place, that there are problems, that in itself is surely
0:15:40 > 0:15:47you will press forward on? Absolutely. You are correct, but I
0:15:47 > 0:15:50think the acknowledgement is important but it has to be followed
0:15:50 > 0:15:54up and properly investigated and they need to allow external
0:15:54 > 0:15:57international investigator to come and look at this because it needs a
0:15:57 > 0:16:00referral to the International Criminal Court. This will not be the
0:16:00 > 0:16:06only grave found. Even last weekend we heard evidence of genocide. We
0:16:06 > 0:16:10have heard of mass graves where people have been systematically
0:16:10 > 0:16:14dehumanised by the use of acid, the very definition of genocide.Over
0:16:14 > 0:16:19the last few months the international reputation of Aung San
0:16:19 > 0:16:24Suu Kyi has altered immeasurably, and if this is the case, this will
0:16:24 > 0:16:30change it again. What will happen do you think?I want Aung San Suu Kyi
0:16:30 > 0:16:34to use the position she has Tuchel for the correct thing to happen,
0:16:34 > 0:16:38this has to be investigated properly. She has called it a fake
0:16:38 > 0:16:42news, she had a bystander, our government also has to apply more
0:16:42 > 0:16:46pressure. We have a seat at the Security Council, where not doing
0:16:46 > 0:16:50enough, the international community needs to stand together, stand up
0:16:50 > 0:16:55and say, look, we have seen this evidence, the army had admitted it
0:16:55 > 0:17:04itself, what is Aung San Suu Kyi going to do about it? Let's have a
0:17:04 > 0:17:06transparent process of investigating this and make sure the perpetrators
0:17:06 > 0:17:11of these he describes are brought to justice.Thank you very much.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14US officials have said tonight that two British men believed to be
0:17:14 > 0:17:17members of the Islamic State group's most infamous cell have been seized
0:17:17 > 0:17:18by Syrian Kurdish fighters.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21Alexanda Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh were the last two members
0:17:21 > 0:17:24of the four man cell nicknamed 'the Beatles' to remain at large.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26The alleged ringleader of the group was Mohammed Emwazi -
0:17:26 > 0:17:27also known as Jihadi John.
0:17:27 > 0:17:35I'm joined by the BBC's security correspondent, Gordon Corera.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39This news broke this evening, British officials are not yet
0:17:39 > 0:17:41confirmed it but an American national security official I spoke
0:17:41 > 0:17:47to said that these two men had been captured. They were part of this
0:17:47 > 0:17:50four man group, slightly unpleasantly called the Beatles
0:17:50 > 0:17:54really pulls the people they were holding hostage could not see them
0:17:54 > 0:17:57because they wore masks but they could hear the British accents of
0:17:57 > 0:18:01the men and they were involved in terrible mistreatment including the
0:18:01 > 0:18:07killing of around two dozen hostages including British aid workers Alan
0:18:07 > 0:18:13Henning and David Heyes. The group were sought by the intelligence
0:18:13 > 0:18:19agencies and authorities, one, Mohammed Emwazi, was killed, another
0:18:19 > 0:18:23is in jail in Turkey and now these two captured by Kurdish forces who
0:18:23 > 0:18:28had their suspicions about the men and approached US special operations
0:18:28 > 0:18:32command who had access to them and appear to have used biometrics to
0:18:32 > 0:18:37confirm their identity and that happened in mid-January.And taking
0:18:37 > 0:18:40them alive was important but what happens next and what does it tell
0:18:40 > 0:18:44us about foreign fighters?What happens next is interesting. There
0:18:44 > 0:18:48will be people in the US who will be preparing a case to put them on
0:18:48 > 0:18:54trial, they had been involved in the killing of American hostages Steven
0:18:54 > 0:18:58Sotloff and James Foley amongst others, and it is possible the Trump
0:18:58 > 0:19:02Administration might want to put them in Guantanamo Bay. That is less
0:19:02 > 0:19:06likely but Donald Trump has talked about it recently. It might not be
0:19:06 > 0:19:10such an issue for the UK Government because it is thought possible that
0:19:10 > 0:19:14there are citizenship may have been stripped of them, that has not been
0:19:14 > 0:19:17confirmed but reported in the American media.A significant night.
0:19:17 > 0:19:22Certainly.Thank you very much.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24Local councils all over England are using words like "severe
0:19:24 > 0:19:26financial challenges" and "a grave financial future."
0:19:26 > 0:19:28Such is the squeeze on local finances -
0:19:28 > 0:19:29and most importantly for the government, some
0:19:29 > 0:19:32of the biggest calamity is in staunchly Tory territory.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35Services at risk are everything from social care to education
0:19:35 > 0:19:38to refuse collection.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40Research carried out by the Local Government Information Unit
0:19:40 > 0:19:42and the Municipal Journal found that 80% of councils fear
0:19:42 > 0:19:45for their balance sheets.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48Council tax will rise in 95% of authorities.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52The research comes as Conservative-run Northamptonshire
0:19:52 > 0:19:54County Council imposed emergency controls on its spending,
0:19:54 > 0:19:58the first local authority in 20 years to resort to that measure,
0:19:58 > 0:20:01and there are calls in councils across the country for a fundamental
0:20:01 > 0:20:03redesign of the financial system.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05Our political editor, Nick Watt, has been to another Tory
0:20:05 > 0:20:11heartland facing the squeeze.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20In one of the bleakest corners of England's pleasant pastures, the
0:20:20 > 0:20:26troubles of austerity should be a world away -- LI theist. But true
0:20:26 > 0:20:29blue Surrey has run up the deficit to rival the Schauble in the
0:20:29 > 0:20:36nation's books clocked up at the end of the new Labour era. I am on the
0:20:36 > 0:20:39Wentworth estate, the millionaires Row of Surrey. This area was once
0:20:39 > 0:20:45home to Sir Elton John and for a period to the late General Augusto
0:20:45 > 0:20:50Pinochet and it lies in the heart of Chancellor Philip Hammond pros
0:20:50 > 0:20:53Runnymede and Weybridge constituency which is one of the most affluent in
0:20:53 > 0:20:58Britain. And yet the challenges faced across the country of an
0:20:58 > 0:21:03ageing population and spending cuts are leaving this area with some
0:21:03 > 0:21:06serious fiscal challenges. Surrey County Council is warning of the
0:21:06 > 0:21:10most difficult financial crisis in its history. As document showed it
0:21:10 > 0:21:18is running a £105 million deficit. That represent a funding gap of
0:21:18 > 0:21:2212.4%, nearly double the English average. The council, which spent
0:21:22 > 0:21:2771p in every pound on adult and children's social care, is digging
0:21:27 > 0:21:31deep into its reserves to keep going.I'm not going to pretend
0:21:31 > 0:21:35Surrey is a poor county because accords its not but since 2010 when
0:21:35 > 0:21:40David Cameron became Prime Minister Surrey has lost over £500 million of
0:21:40 > 0:21:44funding and it has meant that most of the police station in Surrey have
0:21:44 > 0:21:48been closed, apart from four or and thou they are starting to close fire
0:21:48 > 0:21:56stations. -- now they are starting to close fire stations.One minister
0:21:56 > 0:21:59complained that Surrey two specific financial challenges. In the first
0:21:59 > 0:22:02place it spent a lot of money on public services which this minister
0:22:02 > 0:22:09supports but secondly it's relative wealth means that Surrey has faced
0:22:09 > 0:22:13what he described as stingy financial settlement from Whitehall
0:22:13 > 0:22:18under a funding formula that target resources at less affluent areas.I
0:22:18 > 0:22:23worked for the CAA be see all the problems that come on with lack of
0:22:23 > 0:22:30social care. I don't blame councils -- the CAB. They are being starved
0:22:30 > 0:22:34for cash by the government.We have had experience with our mothers in
0:22:34 > 0:22:38social care come in the Midlands and down here, and I must admit the
0:22:38 > 0:22:42social care was better in the Midlands. Surrey might appear to be
0:22:42 > 0:22:45a very affluent county but it does not mean to say that it has
0:22:45 > 0:22:51wonderful hospitals.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53wonderful hospitals.Surrey have been seeking additional government
0:22:53 > 0:22:58money for quite some time and obviously that is a process of
0:22:58 > 0:23:01negotiation between Surrey and the government but clearly I have some
0:23:01 > 0:23:07sympathy for them because of their ageing demographics. But there is a
0:23:07 > 0:23:11large number of other services that Surrey County Council provide that
0:23:11 > 0:23:14have to be looked at very carefully to make sure they are structured in
0:23:14 > 0:23:18the best way to get the best value for money.Surrey County Council
0:23:18 > 0:23:23said in a statement... We have agreed a three-year budget despite
0:23:23 > 0:23:27the severe financial pressure we and councils across the country are
0:23:27 > 0:23:31under due to rising demand for our services and fall in government
0:23:31 > 0:23:34funding. We're been successfully managing the growing need for adult
0:23:34 > 0:23:39social care, children and other key services, partly through making
0:23:39 > 0:23:42savings of £540 million since 2010 and have made sure we keep within
0:23:42 > 0:23:49our overall budget. In a tranquil riverside setting where English
0:23:49 > 0:23:53liberties were proclaimed just over 800 years ago, Surrey invites
0:23:53 > 0:23:58visitors to celebrate its history. Little did the county note that
0:23:58 > 0:24:03today's politics would encroach on this rural idle.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05In Washington today MPs from the Digital Culture,
0:24:05 > 0:24:07Media and Sport Committee were grilling Facebook,
0:24:07 > 0:24:09Google and Twitter on - among other things -
0:24:09 > 0:24:12their response to fake news on their platforms.
0:24:12 > 0:24:17Here is the committee chair, Damian Collins, grilling Twitter.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20What were talking about is lies, someone who is deciding to spread
0:24:20 > 0:24:21lies about somebody else.
0:24:21 > 0:24:23They're not harassing them, they're not intimidating them,
0:24:23 > 0:24:24they're not inciting violence against them, they're
0:24:24 > 0:24:25just spreading lies.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28And they're using the anonymity of Twitter to do that.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30There's basically nothing you will do about it.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34If I could, the anonymity on our platform is not a shield
0:24:34 > 0:24:42against breaking our terms of service.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44Telling lies on Twitter isn't a breach of the
0:24:44 > 0:24:47Telling lies on Twitter isn't a breach of the community guidelines
0:24:47 > 0:24:50and wouldn't require action to be taken against the account.
0:24:50 > 0:24:51That's what you're saying, isn't it?
0:24:51 > 0:24:52If that's the only ground...
0:24:52 > 0:24:54We do not have rules based on truth.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57So is fake news such a big deal that it's necessary for UK politicians
0:24:57 > 0:25:00to head to Washington for, or is the DCMS committee getting
0:25:00 > 0:25:03a bit overexcited about a term that has had its day?
0:25:03 > 0:25:05With me in the studio is the right-wing
0:25:05 > 0:25:06campaigner and best-selling
0:25:06 > 0:25:08author Ann Coulter - one of the very few people
0:25:08 > 0:25:11Donald Trump follows on Twitter, and joining me from LA is the writer
0:25:11 > 0:25:12Laurie Penny.
0:25:12 > 0:25:22Good evening. Ann Coulter, does fake news damage society?Yes, that is
0:25:22 > 0:25:26why Donald Trump keeps attacking it. We live in democracies, people are
0:25:26 > 0:25:34to be informed.
0:25:34 > 0:25:36to be informed. And people at allegedly serious networks are
0:25:36 > 0:25:40putting out lies. This happened long before Trump, Ferguson ripped the
0:25:40 > 0:25:44country apart the alleged shooting of an unarmed black man and went
0:25:44 > 0:25:48Trump came along it has gone through the roof.If you are in a situation
0:25:48 > 0:25:53in an election campaign and a website which gets hits from nearly
0:25:53 > 0:25:57800,000 people says that members of Hillary Clinton's campaign were
0:25:57 > 0:26:04involved in a Satanic cult, that matters, doesn't it? Or does it not?
0:26:04 > 0:26:09Should the tech giants be filtering this stuff?The internet is the only
0:26:09 > 0:26:14place people can get the truth, maybe not from the website you just
0:26:14 > 0:26:17mentioned but 800,000 viewers, Hillary Clinton spent $1 billion...
0:26:17 > 0:26:24This idea that what is putting likes of Facebook swung the election is so
0:26:24 > 0:26:32insane, that is fake news -- bots. You believe things like CNN, CNN,
0:26:32 > 0:26:38ABC, they've put out fake news? Intentionally, the claim that Donald
0:26:38 > 0:26:43Trump admitted to groping a woman's, you know, blank, is alive. They edit
0:26:43 > 0:26:50the tape to lie about it. You can win that is a summary judgment case
0:26:50 > 0:26:57in court and the editor that part of the quote out.If it damaging to
0:26:57 > 0:27:01have not only fake news but actually the idea that it doesn't necessarily
0:27:01 > 0:27:06matter?
0:27:06 > 0:27:10matter?Yup hit on something quite important, the distinction between
0:27:10 > 0:27:14censorship and what is going on out is important. Fake news, what we
0:27:14 > 0:27:19have come to call that, which is actually lies, the point is not just
0:27:19 > 0:27:23to spread lies, it is to make people unsure of the distinction between
0:27:23 > 0:27:29what is true and what is false. When people have eroded trust in the news
0:27:29 > 0:27:32media which is what Ann Coulter is trying to do right now, erode trust
0:27:32 > 0:27:37in honest journalistic networks, when people cannot trust their
0:27:37 > 0:27:45media, they often prefer to believe convenient lies to hard truths. But
0:27:45 > 0:27:49there are still people out there who believe in the power of honest
0:27:49 > 0:27:55journalism and the power, in real democracy, which involves people
0:27:55 > 0:27:58being really informed and there are people out there who believe that
0:27:58 > 0:28:01people in power should not just to be allowed to dictate what is true
0:28:01 > 0:28:07and what is false. Some of those people are sitting around you in a
0:28:07 > 0:28:12studio right now, they are working in a BBC studio, and some people
0:28:12 > 0:28:15watching at home, people who believe there is a distinction between truth
0:28:15 > 0:28:20and falsehood and that distinction matters. I would encourage...Ioane
0:28:20 > 0:28:26situation where if you are saying that the mainstream news networks
0:28:26 > 0:28:31readily pile out fake news, are you not just aiding the despot who say,
0:28:31 > 0:28:35it's all about fake news from CNN, even the BBC, so we won't believe
0:28:35 > 0:28:39it? You are helping people by undermining the probity of
0:28:39 > 0:28:44mainstream media.
0:28:45 > 0:28:50I am citing laws that have been put on it, it doesn't mean you believe
0:28:50 > 0:28:53everything. I agree with you guessed that the issue is censorship, who is
0:28:53 > 0:29:00deciding? I have just listed... 20 lies that have been and continue to
0:29:00 > 0:29:05be put out by the media, they claim that Donald Trump mocked a disabled
0:29:05 > 0:29:10man, not only was alive but the Washington post you that was a lie.
0:29:10 > 0:29:17Video proving that was alive. And you're only light is some website
0:29:17 > 0:29:22said he is part of a Satanic cults... How about, she defended...
0:29:22 > 0:29:31It doesn't matter if a is told...Of course it does! The lies that are
0:29:31 > 0:29:37told about Donald Trump...In a Satanic cult? Are you finished? May
0:29:37 > 0:29:45I speak? The word salad that you have heard is exactly what we're
0:29:45 > 0:29:49talking about, what she wants to do does not make a distinction between
0:29:49 > 0:29:54what is true and not true, it is just to confuse people and make it
0:29:54 > 0:29:59easier for people in power with no scruples to just decide what is true
0:29:59 > 0:30:05and what is false and this culture is a troll with no credibility and
0:30:05 > 0:30:09so is the President but we should not take this as the basis upon
0:30:09 > 0:30:14which what we can decide is true or not.Once you start essentially
0:30:14 > 0:30:22filtering or censoring, then who are the deciders? There is no such thing
0:30:22 > 0:30:28as absolute truth. There are nuances of truth.That is why we have
0:30:28 > 0:30:34journalism. You have worked at the BBC for a very long time, everybody
0:30:34 > 0:30:38in the studio has worked for a long time, journalism is still at think
0:30:38 > 0:30:45that exists and matters and should be a distinction.We already have
0:30:45 > 0:30:54the situation where you tweeted what reported to be a Muslim man
0:30:54 > 0:31:01attacking a young Dutchman and you have 1.8 million and Donald Trump
0:31:01 > 0:31:06retweeted that and you did not even know where that came from. Without
0:31:06 > 0:31:12checking it. And you're somebody in the public eye.You regret that? I
0:31:12 > 0:31:16have seen no proof that it is untrue and your question is correct, who is
0:31:16 > 0:31:24deciding what is true? I keep citing things that are provably false. It
0:31:24 > 0:31:31wasn't true! Your guests say that journalists will decide, our country
0:31:31 > 0:31:37was ruled by the Ferguson shooting for a year and that turned out to be
0:31:37 > 0:31:42the biggest lie ever invented by the media.Thank you very much. That is
0:31:42 > 0:31:43not true!
0:31:43 > 0:31:46Two days after the Guardian newspaper reported that two
0:31:46 > 0:31:50Freemasons Lodges are operating secretly at Westminster,
0:31:50 > 0:31:53with their members' names protected under the rules of freemasonary,
0:31:53 > 0:31:55the United Grand Lodge of England has fought back with full page
0:31:55 > 0:31:57advert in newspapers including today's Times headlined
0:31:57 > 0:31:58'Enough is Enough'.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00Signed by their Chief Executive, Dr David Staples,
0:32:00 > 0:32:02he writes that its 200,000 plus members are stigmatised
0:32:02 > 0:32:04and discriminated against.
0:32:04 > 0:32:08So, the letter states, over the next six months
0:32:08 > 0:32:10the Freemasons will by running a series of open evenings
0:32:10 > 0:32:14for people who want to know who they are and what they do.
0:32:14 > 0:32:19Our reporter David Grossman, though, is getting ahead of the crowds.
0:32:19 > 0:32:22If you're like me, you haven't spent too much time thinking
0:32:22 > 0:32:25about the Freemasons or what goes on in a place like this.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28This is Freemason's Hall in London.
0:32:28 > 0:32:30But today, the Freemasons do want us to think about them.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33They have taken out a full-page advert in the newspapers.
0:32:33 > 0:32:34"Enough is enough", it says.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36And in this letter, they say the Freemasons are unfairly
0:32:36 > 0:32:40stigmatised in the media and by wider society.
0:32:40 > 0:32:43We have been invited in to see what goes on here by the chap
0:32:43 > 0:32:45who wrote this letter - Dr David Staples,
0:32:45 > 0:32:52the Chief Executive.
0:32:52 > 0:32:53David, hello.
0:32:53 > 0:32:54Nice to meet you.
0:32:54 > 0:32:55David Grossman.
0:32:55 > 0:33:00We have come about your advert.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04We were told we could go anywhere, see anything and talk to anyone.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07Could we see a lodge meeting, we asked?
0:33:07 > 0:33:09No problem, they said.
0:33:09 > 0:33:10Except...
0:33:10 > 0:33:13Well, there was a problem.
0:33:13 > 0:33:14We have to find one?
0:33:14 > 0:33:18We have to find one.
0:33:18 > 0:33:20Do you want to stay here and I'll nip upstairs?
0:33:20 > 0:33:22OK, thank you very much.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25Once we found the meeting, it was full of smartly dressed men
0:33:25 > 0:33:27wearing aprons and sashes.
0:33:27 > 0:33:28What is the dagger for?
0:33:28 > 0:33:31That is a ceremonial thing to guard the entrance of the lodge.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33This chap here is called the inner guard.
0:33:33 > 0:33:34You're the inner guard?
0:33:34 > 0:33:35Hello.
0:33:35 > 0:33:38And what do you do as an inner guard?
0:33:38 > 0:33:42I knock on the door, let people in and...
0:33:42 > 0:33:44Make sure people are dressed properly.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47Do you understand why some people will look at this
0:33:47 > 0:33:50and go, it's sinister, it is all cloak and dagger?
0:33:50 > 0:33:52I mean, there's literally a dagger there.
0:33:52 > 0:33:57We have just not done enough to show people who we are and what we do.
0:33:57 > 0:34:01We have allowed members of the media space in the last 20 years
0:34:01 > 0:34:03to have the same old hackneyed conspiracy theories, the same
0:34:03 > 0:34:06old jokey things about trouser legs and all the rest of it.
0:34:06 > 0:34:07That is not who we are.
0:34:07 > 0:34:10The reason for the "enough is enough" message in the papers
0:34:10 > 0:34:11today was a story on Monday.
0:34:11 > 0:34:13A secret cabal of Freemasons at Westminster involving
0:34:13 > 0:34:18journalists and MPs.
0:34:18 > 0:34:20David says there is no truth behind any of it.
0:34:20 > 0:34:22The reality is, today, he says, that masons
0:34:22 > 0:34:24are discriminated against.
0:34:24 > 0:34:28I have barrister friends and they don't want to let people
0:34:28 > 0:34:30know that they are Freemasons.
0:34:30 > 0:34:33Not because they are involved in anything furtive or secret
0:34:33 > 0:34:35but because they don't want to be associated with the myth
0:34:35 > 0:34:38of all the corruption.
0:34:38 > 0:34:42And it is detrimental to them to be a Freemason in the open.
0:34:42 > 0:34:46There is policemen, completely the reverse of what is reported,
0:34:46 > 0:34:48there is policemen who I know who are absolutely clear
0:34:48 > 0:34:51that if they are outed as Freemasons, that is the end
0:34:51 > 0:34:55of their career prospects.
0:34:55 > 0:34:57Big exposes of Freemasonry in the '70s and '80s alleged
0:34:57 > 0:34:59the police were riddled with secret handshakes,
0:34:59 > 0:35:00backscratching and worse.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02Labour Home Secretary Jack Straw said in 1997 that masons
0:35:02 > 0:35:06in the police and judiciary should be identified.
0:35:06 > 0:35:10He eventually backed down in the face of a legal challenge.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12But at the same time as being seen the sinister,
0:35:12 > 0:35:17Freemasonry also has a comic reputation.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19Having once identified a Mason, immediate steps must be
0:35:19 > 0:35:27taken to isolate him from the general public.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34The final part of my tour was the Grand Lodge,
0:35:34 > 0:35:41a sort of cathedral of Freemasonry.
0:35:41 > 0:35:44Lots of symbols, an all-seeing eye to symbolise the belief
0:35:44 > 0:35:45in a higher power.
0:35:45 > 0:35:47The trappings of religion, but I was told it certainly wasn't.
0:35:47 > 0:35:49Every Freemason has to have a faith.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52You don't have to believe in one God.
0:35:52 > 0:35:53You can't be atheist or agnostic?
0:35:53 > 0:35:55No.
0:35:55 > 0:35:58You have to believe in something greater than yourself
0:35:58 > 0:36:01because you have to believe that you have to behave yourself or else
0:36:01 > 0:36:04there is something greater than you that is going to notice.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07And that is what holds people together?
0:36:07 > 0:36:10But holds people together to what purpose?
0:36:10 > 0:36:12I ended my tour not fully understanding much more
0:36:12 > 0:36:15about what Freemasonry actually is.
0:36:15 > 0:36:18As best as I could make out, it's a sort of networking
0:36:18 > 0:36:22club based on principles of self-improvement and altruism.
0:36:22 > 0:36:26But in the mysticism and the ritual, there is plenty of room
0:36:26 > 0:36:33for outsiders to see anything they want, good or bad.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36In this age of mass instant communication,
0:36:36 > 0:36:37there is still a place
0:36:37 > 0:36:40for one of the simplest, most powerful instruments
0:36:40 > 0:36:44of information and opinion - the T-shirt, or slogan tee.
0:36:44 > 0:36:51The utilitarian garment, which been emblazoned
0:36:51 > 0:36:53with everything from the OZ trial to the Rolling Stones logo,
0:36:53 > 0:36:55ripped, safety pinned, and ripped off from one designer
0:36:55 > 0:36:58to another, is as much part of our social history
0:36:58 > 0:36:59as our fashion history.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01It's being celebrated at an exhibition at London's Fashion
0:37:01 > 0:37:02and Textile Museum.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05This unique T-shirt, though, is only in the Newsnight studio,
0:37:05 > 0:37:07not the exhibition.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10It was made minutes before and then worn by the designer and campaigner
0:37:10 > 0:37:14Katherine Hamnett when she met Mrs Thatcher on 17th March 1984.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17So who better to meet me at the exhibition than the Queen
0:37:17 > 0:37:24of the political T-shirt?
0:37:28 > 0:37:30So this, this is your first T-shirt?
0:37:30 > 0:37:32Yes.
0:37:32 > 0:37:35It actually came out with an argument I had with Lynne
0:37:35 > 0:37:37Franks, who I think you know.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40Because she was doing this Buddhist exhibition and I said, nobody's
0:37:40 > 0:37:43going to bother to go, it's just not putting it over.
0:37:43 > 0:37:45I said the only way you can get this message over is,
0:37:45 > 0:37:54how about printing it in huge letters on a T-shirt?
0:37:54 > 0:37:57This whole idea of making a statement in a
0:37:57 > 0:38:01T-shirt, where did you get that from?
0:38:01 > 0:38:04Well, I was kind of frustrated, you know, during sort of
0:38:04 > 0:38:07Thatcher's years because we felt we had no voice, democracy slipping
0:38:07 > 0:38:08through our fingers, couldn't
0:38:08 > 0:38:09stand...
0:38:09 > 0:38:12And I thought, well, at least if you could do something that
0:38:12 > 0:38:16people could read from 200 yards on your chest, you know...
0:38:16 > 0:38:19It gives you a voice.
0:38:19 > 0:38:21Tell me about this one.
0:38:21 > 0:38:25This was actually taken from a BBC poll, taken before we decided to
0:38:25 > 0:38:28invade Iraq and it was 91% of people polled were against invading Iraq
0:38:28 > 0:38:32without a second resolution.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34And we did this the moment the poll came
0:38:34 > 0:38:36out.
0:38:36 > 0:38:44It was done at a local Snappy Snaps.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47Do you ever irk people with the T-shirts, do you think, you
0:38:47 > 0:38:48know, annoy them?
0:38:48 > 0:38:51I don't know and I don't care actually.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54You know, be irked, you know.
0:38:54 > 0:38:58Do you go to bed at night and think, God, what can I do a T-shirt
0:38:58 > 0:38:59on tomorrow?
0:38:59 > 0:39:00What would be really good?
0:39:00 > 0:39:01No.
0:39:01 > 0:39:04No, they're kind of cries from the heart, they come by
0:39:04 > 0:39:05themselves, like this one.
0:39:05 > 0:39:06Yeah.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08Like, I just couldn't stop myself I feel so
0:39:08 > 0:39:09passionately about it.
0:39:09 > 0:39:11You know, I thought I'll actually wear this,
0:39:11 > 0:39:17tell you when you came, I'm wearing this or nothing else.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20Use a condom, don't shoot.
0:39:20 > 0:39:23All these, you look at those and say these are Katherine
0:39:23 > 0:39:27Hamnett T-shirts but of course they're not all like that, are they?
0:39:27 > 0:39:30I mean, the trouble is that lots of people want to appropriate your
0:39:30 > 0:39:31style.
0:39:31 > 0:39:32Does that matter?
0:39:32 > 0:39:35They were designed to be copied but then I
0:39:35 > 0:39:38think it's really sad if they copy the style and just write something
0:39:38 > 0:39:40rather drivelly, you know, something a bit pathetic.
0:39:40 > 0:39:41It's a shame.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44Is there something about the T-shirt that then creates a tribe?
0:39:44 > 0:39:47Immediately if you have the same T-shirt on as that person and have
0:39:47 > 0:39:50the same sentiment as that person in your head,
0:39:50 > 0:39:52the T-shirt gives you a
0:39:52 > 0:39:54sense of belonging?
0:39:54 > 0:39:57Well, I think you're friends, aren't you?
0:39:57 > 0:39:59You know, because you have the same values,
0:39:59 > 0:40:04and you believe in the same things, it's nice.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07Then when it came to the punk movement, it was about ripping
0:40:07 > 0:40:10up T-shirts, deconstructing them, again, that was fashion.
0:40:10 > 0:40:12I think punk was amazing.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16I mean, it was fascinating and they did the big
0:40:16 > 0:40:19sort of anarchy, you know, in the UK,BLEEPthe Queen,
0:40:19 > 0:40:22all of that, and, you know, I think a slight
0:40:22 > 0:40:24misunderstanding of the word anarchy because they thought it was just
0:40:24 > 0:40:27smashing down everything and actually it means a leaderless
0:40:27 > 0:40:29society, a society that is so well run it doesn't actually need
0:40:29 > 0:40:32leaders, like a direct democracy maybe.
0:40:32 > 0:40:40So, it was inspiring, it was a very exciting time.
0:40:45 > 0:40:46That's almost it from us.
0:40:46 > 0:40:49Before we go, Elon Musk may have put a car into space,
0:40:49 > 0:40:51but now we have the first rave in zero gravity.
0:40:51 > 0:40:5420 clubbers from around the world were selected by promoters
0:40:54 > 0:40:57BigCityBeats to go up in a special Airbus A310 to dance -
0:40:57 > 0:41:00and float - to a set from superstar DJ Steve Aoki.
0:41:00 > 0:41:02So here they are getting very high indeed.
0:41:02 > 0:41:04Goodnight.
0:41:04 > 0:41:07MUSIC: Signalrunners - "Corrupted"
0:41:07 > 0:41:09# A rocket's kick
0:41:09 > 0:41:12# A cold pin prick
0:41:12 > 0:41:20# A missile launch
0:41:20 > 0:41:23# Corrupted this
0:41:23 > 0:41:26# Calculated risk
0:41:26 > 0:41:33# Was worth a lot
0:41:34 > 0:41:35# Corrupted was the name of the game
0:41:35 > 0:41:38# They'll take that then they'll give it away