0:00:07 > 0:00:12He's been the remainers' public enemy number one ever
0:00:12 > 0:00:15since he led the out campaign, but now he comes in peace.
0:00:16 > 0:00:24Tomorrow he makes a speech saying let's all be friends again.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30We'll look ahead to that speech, in which the Foreign Secretary's
0:00:30 > 0:00:33main message is that Brexit is a liberal project,
0:00:33 > 0:00:34not a nationalist one.
0:00:34 > 0:00:35It may not entirely convince all his opponents.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37I think we've had enough of sound bites.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39Liberal, outward-looking, global, buccaneering, Brexit means
0:00:39 > 0:00:41Brexit, deep and special partnership, no deal better than a
0:00:41 > 0:00:47bad deal.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50All those are slogans.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53We'll ask the liberal in chief how he feels
0:00:53 > 0:00:55about Boris's tanks on his lawn.
0:00:55 > 0:00:56The Oxfam crisis.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58Is this only about one agency?
0:00:58 > 0:01:05Or does the whole sector have questions to answer?
0:01:05 > 0:01:09This boy is an outstanding science student at the state school in the
0:01:09 > 0:01:12North of England. What's his ambition?
0:01:12 > 0:01:14Do you see science in your future?
0:01:14 > 0:01:21Yeah, like, I want to become a chef and apply science to cooking.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Young, gifted and Paul, what should we do to help realise their
0:01:24 > 0:01:30potential? --
0:01:30 > 0:01:32potential? -- and poor.
0:01:32 > 0:01:33And you probably saw the Obama painting.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36It's gone down rather well, so we'll be asking someone who has
0:01:36 > 0:01:41painted the former president what makes a great portrait.
0:01:41 > 0:01:42Hello.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45Boris Johnson has become something of a hate figure to a chunk
0:01:45 > 0:01:48of liberal Britain who blame him for what they see as
0:01:48 > 0:01:51the Brexit catastrophe.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53They think he lied in the referendum campaign, and persuaded
0:01:53 > 0:01:55Britain to self-harm, all to serve his own
0:01:55 > 0:02:02political career.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05So, Mr Johnson is bravely trying to appeal to those core
0:02:05 > 0:02:06Remainers tomorrow -
0:02:06 > 0:02:09his is the first in a series of speeches on Brexit by cabinet
0:02:09 > 0:02:10ministers over the next few days.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13He will argue Brexit is basically a liberal project.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15It is about pulling down barriers, not erecting them -
0:02:15 > 0:02:19so he means it's liberal in the sense of free trade.
0:02:19 > 0:02:20Apart from trying to heal Brexit division -
0:02:20 > 0:02:23good luck with that - it's an attempt to reclaim Brexit
0:02:23 > 0:02:31from any suggestion it's all about Nigel Farage.
0:02:33 > 0:02:34So, does Johnson's argument fly?
0:02:34 > 0:02:36Certainly, there is a lot of illiberalism on the continent -
0:02:36 > 0:02:40but Mr Johnson's problem is that it's that there's a lot
0:02:40 > 0:02:42of illiberalism here too, much of it on his Brexit-supporting side.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44So what's the Foreign Secretary trying to do?
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Our political editor Nick Watt reports.
0:02:47 > 0:02:53We are, it would seem, a divided country.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56In the 20 months since the Brexit referendum, the two sides seem
0:02:56 > 0:03:00as divided as ever but have no fear, help is at hand.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02The man who transformed the Leave cause is
0:03:02 > 0:03:10reaching out across the divide.
0:03:10 > 0:03:17Boris Johnson will criticise some ardent pro-Europeans who he will
0:03:17 > 0:03:21accuse of trying to reverse Brexit but I'm told he's also expected to
0:03:21 > 0:03:23put balm on the wounds caused by the bitter referendum campaign.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26This may all seem a far cry from his joshing
0:03:26 > 0:03:31of the Remain camp just a few months ago.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33Every day a distinguished pink newspaper manages to make
0:03:33 > 0:03:37Eeyore look positively exuberant.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40Just under a year ago, you wouldn't have known
0:03:40 > 0:03:45there was a divide that needed to be healed.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48This year, after a period of intense debate over the right
0:03:48 > 0:03:50future for our country, there is a sense that people
0:03:50 > 0:03:52are coming together and uniting behind the opportunities
0:03:52 > 0:03:57that lie ahead.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Boris Johnson now feels it's time for something of a reset
0:04:00 > 0:04:04of the optics around Brexit.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08I understand he has told his inner circle that he wants to rescue
0:04:08 > 0:04:10Brexit from what he privately calls a Faragist worldview.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13Inward and backward looking.
0:04:13 > 0:04:18As passionate as ever about the opportunities that
0:04:18 > 0:04:20will be provided by leaving the European Union, he believes
0:04:20 > 0:04:22you can support Brexit whilst being an internationalist,
0:04:22 > 0:04:26a globalist, and a liberal.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29The values he says he shares with many Remain supporters.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Well, I'm all in favour of reaching out.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35I think people voted Remain out of fear for the short-term
0:04:35 > 0:04:37economic consequences.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41And it is great news that those forecasts were wrong and the economy
0:04:41 > 0:04:45has continued to grow and we've got more jobs and house prices
0:04:45 > 0:04:46did not tank and so forth.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50So there will be some of those who say maybe it was not
0:04:50 > 0:04:51quite as bad as thought.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53And we want this to work for everybody.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56Those of us who believe in it believe that Britain will be more
0:04:56 > 0:04:58prosperous and more free when it is a self-governing
0:04:58 > 0:04:59country again.
0:04:59 > 0:05:04A leading pro-European Tory is not changing her view
0:05:04 > 0:05:07of the Brexit is a sceptical that the Foreign Secretary's claim
0:05:07 > 0:05:09that it is a liberal cause.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Liberal doesn't mean anything.
0:05:11 > 0:05:15If it means free trade, we've got free trade.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17We are about to throw away umpteen free trade deals.
0:05:17 > 0:05:23We've got frictionless trade.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26But if liberal means doing exactly what we want and hoping
0:05:26 > 0:05:28everyone else will let us, then I don't think
0:05:28 > 0:05:29that world exists.
0:05:29 > 0:05:36Is hiding all the vital information we need to know
0:05:36 > 0:05:39about what the impact of what we're doing might be liberal?
0:05:39 > 0:05:43I don't think so.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45Is putting up new trade barriers where currently none exist liberal?
0:05:45 > 0:05:46I don't think so.
0:05:46 > 0:05:51What does this mean?
0:05:51 > 0:05:55If we are trying to make our own rules, make our own laws,
0:05:55 > 0:06:02and expect that everyone else will respect our laws but we don't
0:06:02 > 0:06:04really have to comply with theirs, then that is not how
0:06:04 > 0:06:06the world works.
0:06:06 > 0:06:07CHEERING.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10A pollster wonders whether Boris Johnson is the right messenger.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14After being very much the Heineken Mayor of London,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16reaching the parts that other politicians cannot reach,
0:06:16 > 0:06:20Boris Johnson may well regard himself as the best person
0:06:20 > 0:06:22on the Leave side to appeal to Remainers.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26And indeed if he can't do it then perhaps nobody can.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30But what he may find is that he is not Heineken, he is Marmite.
0:06:30 > 0:06:34And for Remainers that means a lot of people see him simply as a Leaver
0:06:34 > 0:06:35and they don't like it.
0:06:35 > 0:06:41So Boris Johnson will cast himself as the nation's healer.
0:06:41 > 0:06:43With divisions in his own family, he knows he faces
0:06:43 > 0:06:46a monumental challenge.
0:06:46 > 0:06:48But in the end he believes the free spirit unleashed
0:06:48 > 0:06:56by Brexit will prevail.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02We are joined by two men who consider themselves liberal in their
0:07:02 > 0:07:03own way.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06We are now joined by the leader of the Liberal Democrats Sir Vince
0:07:06 > 0:07:08Cable and the Conservative MEP Dan Hannan.
0:07:08 > 0:07:15Good evening to you both. Boris as a healer, do you feel healed, what do
0:07:15 > 0:07:19you think about his message?He can be charming and witty but the
0:07:19 > 0:07:24substance is not helpful. What I can't understand is the use of the
0:07:24 > 0:07:29word liberal. It is either a deliberate use of language or to
0:07:29 > 0:07:34cause confusion. The European project that he once asked to
0:07:34 > 0:07:39disengage from is the Single Market, which is fundamentally a liberal
0:07:39 > 0:07:43idea, about the free trade in goods and services and freeing up capital
0:07:43 > 0:07:50movements and Labour -- he wants us to disengage from. The whole point
0:07:50 > 0:07:55about the government strategy, particularly the hardliners like
0:07:55 > 0:07:58Boris Johnson, the Chancellor is in a different position, is about
0:07:58 > 0:08:01getting us out of that liberal arrangement and creating extra
0:08:01 > 0:08:06barriers to trade as a consequence. The other red line is about
0:08:06 > 0:08:10withdrawing from the customs union. Even if you manage to negotiate a
0:08:10 > 0:08:13tariff free agreement you would have friction at the borders because you
0:08:13 > 0:08:20have to check...So it is about creating barriers? That is the
0:08:20 > 0:08:24paradox of what Boris Johnson is asking, you have the most liberal
0:08:24 > 0:08:30trading deal in the world, the EU, and then you are leaving it. So deal
0:08:30 > 0:08:36with that paradox, if you would. Obviously I don't see it that way, I
0:08:36 > 0:08:44see the EU as a top-down project and there has been a general global
0:08:44 > 0:08:48economic and trade liberalisation which is a good thing, a great
0:08:48 > 0:08:51vehicle for poverty alleviation but the European Union hasn't been at
0:08:51 > 0:08:55the forefront of it. Being an internationalist and Liberal lever
0:08:55 > 0:09:04is about raising our eyes to the other opportunities. At its exports
0:09:04 > 0:09:09to the US and New Zealand have grown by 40% each, to China and Japan,
0:09:09 > 0:09:1860%, South Korea, 100%, the EU, 10%. The idea that I somehow remaining in
0:09:18 > 0:09:21a tariff wall and often protectionist EU we are necessarily
0:09:21 > 0:09:26advancing the liberal projects, I don't agree with. There's another
0:09:26 > 0:09:30thing which is important for a Foreign Secretary to be stressing, a
0:09:30 > 0:09:36lot of overseas observers and media only see the Farage argument for
0:09:36 > 0:09:41Brexit. They've got this kind of idea that the only reason to vote
0:09:41 > 0:09:46Leave is bigotry, nostalgia or disliking immigrants but I think
0:09:46 > 0:09:50it's the duty of the Foreign Secretary to make the case that we
0:09:50 > 0:09:55are an engaged country involved in many countries and Europe.I want to
0:09:55 > 0:10:01go back about trade, it is abstract about talking about global this and
0:10:01 > 0:10:05liberal that. Can you give me a concrete way in which we will be
0:10:05 > 0:10:09more liberal as a result of leaving? I want to know what this means in
0:10:09 > 0:10:14practice, not the abstract. What does being more liberal mean in
0:10:14 > 0:10:20practice?Well, the EU applies a lot of barriers, especially nontariff
0:10:20 > 0:10:22barriers to some of the poorest countries in the world, especially
0:10:22 > 0:10:28agriculture.Sorry to interrupt, is it your contention that we will
0:10:28 > 0:10:32remove those barriers and have more imports of cheap agricultural
0:10:32 > 0:10:38products from poorer countries?So the prices in the UK fall, which
0:10:38 > 0:10:42will benefit all of us, but will especially benefit the people on the
0:10:42 > 0:10:45lowest incomes who spend a higher proportion of their weekly budgets
0:10:45 > 0:10:50on Minister cities like food.You've given us a good one. -- on
0:10:50 > 0:10:56necessities like. You're not going to argue about the Single Market but
0:10:56 > 0:10:59do you see that there are things where you can say it works both
0:10:59 > 0:11:06ways? The Single Market, you call it liberal, but agriculture could be
0:11:06 > 0:11:10more liberal if we leave?There are some barriers to developing
0:11:10 > 0:11:15countries but compared with 20 years ago the European Union is a much
0:11:15 > 0:11:18more open economy than the United States, Japan, China and other
0:11:18 > 0:11:24trading... The EU has led the way to opening up world trade through the
0:11:24 > 0:11:29World Trade Organisation. Of course barriers remain. What I'm not clear
0:11:29 > 0:11:32about is what the Brexiteers wants to do about it. One thing you could
0:11:32 > 0:11:37do is save, we are going to have the open market, get rid of the trade
0:11:37 > 0:11:42barriers and just enjoy that freedom. That is an economic liberal
0:11:42 > 0:11:47argument but that isn't what Theresa May is doing, she's charging around
0:11:47 > 0:11:51the world signing, in a rather pathetic way, trying to get the
0:11:51 > 0:11:54Chinese and Indians to sign bilateral agreements which fragment
0:11:54 > 0:11:57the trading system even more. That isn't a liberal way to approach
0:11:57 > 0:12:04trade.Do you think the British people who voted for Brexit thought
0:12:04 > 0:12:10they were voting for more cheap imports from poorer countries, for
0:12:10 > 0:12:13more globalisation, for more free trade, perhaps for more immigration
0:12:13 > 0:12:19from India and other parts of Asia and Africa, when they voted for
0:12:19 > 0:12:26Brexit?17 point formerly people voted Leave so clearly there was a
0:12:26 > 0:12:31broad range of motives and I can't tell you what every single one of
0:12:31 > 0:12:38those people said but plainly there were liberal lever is Mac. Not every
0:12:38 > 0:12:45libertarian is a Leave voter. To get away from this caricature of Leave
0:12:45 > 0:12:49as being a basically backward looking project. The day after the
0:12:49 > 0:12:55referendum I came on this programme and spoke to you and said voting
0:12:55 > 0:12:57Leave doesn't mean there will be zero immigration, it will be subject
0:12:57 > 0:13:04to democratic control and you did a Paxman face of incredulity and
0:13:04 > 0:13:09banged the table but I've said the same thing through the campaign, has
0:13:09 > 0:13:16had Boris.It is a strange thing that it is such a liberal project
0:13:16 > 0:13:19that immigration control features are so heavily as the way to sell it
0:13:19 > 0:13:27to the British people. More globalisation...In the main... In
0:13:27 > 0:13:30the main debate, the most watched debate, the great Wembley debate,
0:13:30 > 0:13:34Boris begun by saying he's not only liberal on immigration, he's
0:13:34 > 0:13:41favoured giving an amnesty to migrants. It isn't something he
0:13:41 > 0:13:45tried to slip into the small print. A slightly grotesque caricature has
0:13:45 > 0:13:51been built up since the vote, not least in overseas media and I think
0:13:51 > 0:13:54it's quite important that the British Foreign Secretary should be
0:13:54 > 0:13:58relying friends and allies that we remain an engaged and trusted global
0:13:58 > 0:14:07partner?Do you trust that?Dan Hannan is Aina minority of the
0:14:07 > 0:14:13leavers on this, the government are arguing they want to restrict
0:14:13 > 0:14:16immigration. You can make a theoretical liberal argument to say
0:14:16 > 0:14:26we will have less legislation but the government are arguing the
0:14:26 > 0:14:28opposite, coming to Parliament arguing that none of these
0:14:28 > 0:14:36regulations will be removed. -- have less regulation. There is a
0:14:36 > 0:14:39fundamental dishonesty in the use of the word liberal.Thank you for
0:14:39 > 0:14:42joining us.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45It's a sign that Oxfam has not managed to close down its sexual
0:14:45 > 0:14:47misconduct crisis that we are now deeply into the phase
0:14:47 > 0:14:50in which incremental news drips out day after day.
0:14:50 > 0:14:51Tonight, the actor Minnie Driver, an Oxfam ambassador,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54has quit her role - saying she was "horrified"
0:14:54 > 0:14:55by the allegations.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57And it was reported today in the humanitarian
0:14:57 > 0:14:59news website Irin - that the man in charge
0:14:59 > 0:15:01of the Haitian operation, who resigned from Oxfam for himself
0:15:01 > 0:15:04using prostitutes, had lost a job in Liberia some years before
0:15:04 > 0:15:06with a different British aid agency on similar grounds.
0:15:06 > 0:15:13Roland Van Hauwermeiren reportedly denied the
0:15:13 > 0:15:15allegations, but did resign.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17What this latest news does, perhaps, is simply harden the suspicion that
0:15:17 > 0:15:25Oxfam is just the tip of an iceberg I'm joined now from Boston
0:15:25 > 0:15:27by Diane Mazurana, from Massachusetts Tufts university.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29She has conducted a major study of sexual assaults
0:15:29 > 0:15:30in the aid industry.
0:15:30 > 0:15:32And in the studio we have Bocchit Edmond,
0:15:32 > 0:15:39the Haitian Ambassador to the UK.
0:15:39 > 0:15:46If I can turn to you Diane, there a difference between sexual assault
0:15:46 > 0:15:54and using prostitutes. But what did study find?What we found in the
0:15:54 > 0:15:59study was sexual assault and harassment of humanitarian aid
0:15:59 > 0:16:04workers was pretty widespread. The most reliable numbers we have is
0:16:04 > 0:16:10about 24% of aid workers, women aid workers, reported being sexually
0:16:10 > 0:16:15assaulted while on a mission. And we found that the primary perpetrators
0:16:15 > 0:16:21are other men who are humanitarian aid workers who are their colleagues
0:16:21 > 0:16:26and usually people in a position of power, more higher ranking than
0:16:26 > 0:16:30them. But also mail Security officers hired by the agencies to
0:16:30 > 0:16:36provide security.
0:16:37 > 0:16:44provide security. We looked at Oxfam, actually.Go ahead.We did
0:16:44 > 0:16:48look at Oxfam and I think it is important to note that Oxfam
0:16:48 > 0:16:51actually was best practice and I still stand by that with all the
0:16:51 > 0:16:56accusations and revelations coming out. Oxfam was widely viewed by the
0:16:56 > 0:17:04other agencies we talked to, UN agencies and international NGOs as
0:17:04 > 0:17:08having the best safeguarding unit and policy and practice in place.
0:17:08 > 0:17:14Other agencies do not even have safeguarding, or proper mechanisms.
0:17:14 > 0:17:21People do not even know how to report if something happens.Sorry
0:17:21 > 0:17:26to the interrupting but that is a very interesting finding. Given the
0:17:26 > 0:17:32heat that Oxfam is under. Because you're saying that perhaps worse is
0:17:32 > 0:17:38going on elsewhere but unreported. Absolutely. And I think one thing we
0:17:38 > 0:17:43must understand is once you get better reporting and investigating
0:17:43 > 0:17:47mechanisms in place and people have confidence to use those mechanisms,
0:17:47 > 0:17:52reports are going to go up. So Oxfam is taking the heat right now but I
0:17:52 > 0:17:56can tell you that this is widespread throughout the sector and other
0:17:56 > 0:18:01agencies have not stepped up to the level that Oxfam has. You have seen
0:18:01 > 0:18:07from reports coming out...I'm so sorry, I keep interrupting. What
0:18:07 > 0:18:11amazes me is that we have not heard about this study. You have
0:18:11 > 0:18:17interviewed a lot of people and until it was reported on Oxfam last
0:18:17 > 0:18:24week, no one had spotted your report and said, this is interesting.Yes
0:18:24 > 0:18:29in fact the inter-agency standing committee reported on that, a number
0:18:29 > 0:18:33of other media outlets as well. But it was used in part to help point
0:18:33 > 0:18:40champions to the inner agency standing committee to iron out tasks
0:18:40 > 0:18:45with leading a task force, the deputy High Commissioner for human
0:18:45 > 0:18:49rights and president of interaction and they are in charge of leading a
0:18:49 > 0:18:53task force looking at how to really address and take on sexual assault
0:18:53 > 0:18:58and harassment of aid workers throughout the industry. So it has
0:18:58 > 0:19:04been maybe not in popular media picked up but we definitely have
0:19:04 > 0:19:10seen some action. Now what we need to see is more action. And I'm a bit
0:19:10 > 0:19:14concerned at the kind of heat that Oxfam is taking right now, it makes
0:19:14 > 0:19:20it look as if this is an Oxfam problem but it is industrywide.
0:19:20 > 0:19:27We've seen reports on this. Well I want to stop you there and go to the
0:19:27 > 0:19:35ambassador for Haiti. Good evening to you. What do you make of that,
0:19:35 > 0:19:40you have been putting Oxfam under some heat?Well my government is not
0:19:40 > 0:19:51in the business of throwing Oxfam under a bus. We
0:19:51 > 0:19:57under a bus. We only saw the results of the investigation and the
0:19:57 > 0:20:00conclusion was that some car crimes had been committed. And we
0:20:00 > 0:20:06understand they were not reported. -- some crimes. The British
0:20:06 > 0:20:11Government has now asked Oxfam to step up to the plate and take
0:20:11 > 0:20:16measures.But maybe you should be focusing on all the others as well.
0:20:16 > 0:20:21Of course. Right now we're talking about Oxfam because there was an
0:20:21 > 0:20:24investigation that came to a conclusion about Oxfam. It does not
0:20:24 > 0:20:33mean Oxfam is the only NGO facing those kind of issues.
0:20:34 > 0:20:38those kind of issues.Just to put the Oxfam defence to you which is
0:20:38 > 0:20:46that at the time they said reporting this to the government when law and
0:20:46 > 0:20:48order was preoccupied, disaster struck, it would have been
0:20:48 > 0:20:54unlikely...I heard about that. Unfortunately we disagree with that
0:20:54 > 0:21:00because even in a war zone it does not happen. After the earthquake the
0:21:00 > 0:21:06state of Haiti did not cease to exist, there was law enforcement,
0:21:06 > 0:21:11the police authorities were there. But even at the best of times some
0:21:11 > 0:21:18of these laws are not enforced.I will make the concession that there
0:21:18 > 0:21:23are different considerations. But why not reported to the British
0:21:23 > 0:21:31authorities. And even though they were aware that this guy had
0:21:31 > 0:21:40committed crimes, I believe they made a mistake by letting him go.
0:21:40 > 0:21:49But we are here to request Oxfam to share the facts.I wonder how
0:21:49 > 0:21:53worried you are that what is happening now is being used by some
0:21:53 > 0:22:03people as an argument that we do not give money to aid programmes. But
0:22:03 > 0:22:06these do-gooders are just there for their own satisfaction. This could
0:22:06 > 0:22:10lead to quite a backlash.I understand that and I am concerned
0:22:10 > 0:22:22about that as well. As much as aid is important, you cannot replace
0:22:22 > 0:22:26protection. Even though you're coming to bring aid and give
0:22:26 > 0:22:32assistance, you always have to keep in mind that those people you're
0:22:32 > 0:22:37coming to help also have rights and dignity. Therefore it is up to those
0:22:37 > 0:22:46NGOs to step up to the plate and bring in some changes.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48bring in some changes. Have tougher background checks for recruitment.
0:22:48 > 0:22:53Because if you look at the seriousness of this guy, Roland van
0:22:53 > 0:22:57Hauwermeiren, he has been in many organisations and been thrown out
0:22:57 > 0:23:02and wide between themselves they could not say that. This is
0:23:02 > 0:23:06important to have background checks. If you want to work for this
0:23:06 > 0:23:15organisation at least then we are protected. At least minimise it if
0:23:15 > 0:23:20not solve the situation.Thank you very much.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23It has become common to argue that a lack of social mobility in this
0:23:23 > 0:23:24country has dried up.
0:23:24 > 0:23:25Born poor, you stay poor.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28The data points to a more nuanced reading - there are huge social
0:23:28 > 0:23:29mobility disparities between different parts
0:23:29 > 0:23:33of the country, and there is a big rise in the numbers of young people
0:23:33 > 0:23:35going to university, including from poorer backgrounds.
0:23:35 > 0:23:36So things are not standing still.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39But a new way of understanding the issue is to watch
0:23:39 > 0:23:42BBC2 at 9 pm tomorrow, for the first of two one hour
0:23:42 > 0:23:44documentary programmes called Generation Gifted.
0:23:44 > 0:23:46It looks at the experiences of six bright teenagers
0:23:46 > 0:23:51from deprived backgrounds.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54The programme will actually follow the six over three years,
0:23:54 > 0:23:58but obviously you'll have to wait for the later years.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01But how do these talented teenagers fare at the start of the series?
0:24:01 > 0:24:04Before we discuss social mobility more generally,
0:24:04 > 0:24:06here's a few minutes extracted from the Generation
0:24:06 > 0:24:14Gifted programmes.
0:24:20 > 0:24:21In your bedroom, is there anything that defines
0:24:21 > 0:24:25you more than anything else?
0:24:25 > 0:24:27Erm...
0:24:27 > 0:24:28Erm...
0:24:28 > 0:24:30I have books.
0:24:30 > 0:24:33Lots and lots of books.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36Anne-Marie is the sort of student that every English teacher
0:24:36 > 0:24:38wants in their class.
0:24:38 > 0:24:44But she's so uncomfortable with her own potential and abilities.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46What makes you uncomfortable?
0:24:46 > 0:24:47Everything.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49Everything?
0:24:49 > 0:24:53Is this a common issue for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds?
0:24:53 > 0:24:56A lot of pupils who come from such backgrounds are the sort of pupils
0:24:56 > 0:25:00who absolutely have low self-esteem.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03She's very anxious person as well.
0:25:03 > 0:25:07But at the same time she is capable of a lot more than she thinks.
0:25:07 > 0:25:15BELL RINGS.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25So up here is science.
0:25:25 > 0:25:29Science is one of my favourite lessons.
0:25:29 > 0:25:35In year eight I got the gold award for science.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38Liam is, you know, he's incredibly bright.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40We've done the first kind of GCSE test.
0:25:40 > 0:25:44So obviously it goes from one to nine.
0:25:44 > 0:25:46Where five would be the new good GCSE.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49And he got a nine which is, you know, fantastic.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52It's the highest you can get now.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54You think about the grammar schools and the private schools.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56Why should they get all the luck?
0:25:56 > 0:25:59If a kid is bright then they should continue to be bright and we should
0:25:59 > 0:26:02be doing everything we can to ensure that they are making the best
0:26:02 > 0:26:03possible progress for them.
0:26:03 > 0:26:07How do you see science in your future?
0:26:07 > 0:26:10Yeah, like I want to become a chef and apply science to cooking.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12Amazing.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15You know, cooking is mostly chemical changes, isn't it?
0:26:15 > 0:26:19All they have seen around them is low ambition.
0:26:19 > 0:26:23When people ask about what comes out of this area, it's Geordie Shore.
0:26:23 > 0:26:25When you ask the kids, that's what they know
0:26:25 > 0:26:28of Newcastle, Geordie Shore.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31It's sad, really, because they've got John Dobson
0:26:31 > 0:26:32and George Stephenson, amazing, you know,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35scientists from this area.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37That they have got no clue about even though
0:26:37 > 0:26:40part of the school is named after them!
0:26:40 > 0:26:48BELL RINGS.
0:26:51 > 0:26:52OK then, you lot.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Shhh!
0:26:55 > 0:26:56You lot, year nines.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59Shakira.
0:26:59 > 0:27:02In you come.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05That's amazing.
0:27:05 > 0:27:08So when you do homeworks and sketches, try and do as much
0:27:08 > 0:27:09as you can like that.
0:27:09 > 0:27:10Because that's brilliant.
0:27:10 > 0:27:11That's nice.
0:27:11 > 0:27:12That's what I'm getting tattooed.
0:27:12 > 0:27:13You're getting tattooed?
0:27:13 > 0:27:15When are you getting a tattoo?
0:27:15 > 0:27:21That's what I want my job to be.
0:27:21 > 0:27:23With Shakira I think this is one of my favourite subjects
0:27:23 > 0:27:25because she is one of the best.
0:27:25 > 0:27:27This is the type of stuff I'm looking for.
0:27:27 > 0:27:28Because that's really going to...
0:27:28 > 0:27:30But she thinks she can't achieve things.
0:27:30 > 0:27:32It's just confidence.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35It's a much harder task to get through to someone
0:27:35 > 0:27:39on free school meals.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41Because of their constant struggle or their constant battle
0:27:41 > 0:27:46with believing in themselves.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49Because people often think if you are on free school
0:27:49 > 0:27:51meals or if you're poor, then you cannot
0:27:51 > 0:27:52achieve anything.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56BELL RINGS.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58Did you put your name down for the Rome trip?
0:27:58 > 0:28:02I was going to, but my mum said she hadn't got enough money to pay
0:28:02 > 0:28:05for it because of what's going on with Leo and that.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07And I haven't got a passport, so.
0:28:07 > 0:28:11So why don't you come and see us about those things?
0:28:11 > 0:28:13Because part of my job is to make sure that anybody that's
0:28:13 > 0:28:18in a difficult situation, there is money available to support.
0:28:18 > 0:28:22The big barrier that she has is confidence.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24But you find that one thing that is the talent,
0:28:24 > 0:28:28the skill, the interest, and it suddenly opens the doors.
0:28:28 > 0:28:29You should be confident, you know.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32You enjoy singing.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35It enables them to realise that they're good at something,
0:28:35 > 0:28:37realise that they can belong to something.
0:28:37 > 0:28:40And that enables you to sort of broaden that horizon.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43She doesn't just have to be Shakira from Belgrave who lives in Tamworth
0:28:43 > 0:28:50and dies in Tamworth.
0:28:50 > 0:28:53An extract from Generation Gifted, there.
0:28:53 > 0:28:58We did ask the government to join us but they declined.
0:28:58 > 0:29:02With me is Jon Spears - who you saw in that film -
0:29:02 > 0:29:05he's an assistant head at Tamworth Enterprise College.
0:29:05 > 0:29:08Also here is the historian Selina Todd - she's a professor
0:29:08 > 0:29:13in modern history at Oxford University.
0:29:13 > 0:29:18She has written about the history of the working class. Interesting to
0:29:18 > 0:29:24watch that. When you are teaching, how much priority do you give to the
0:29:24 > 0:29:29more gifted disadvantaged students as opposed to the others?Well, as
0:29:29 > 0:29:33opposed to the others, it's got to be as well as the others. We can't
0:29:33 > 0:29:41single out one group. You know, philosophically and morally, as a
0:29:41 > 0:29:45teacher, every student in the room is gifted. In terms of the higher
0:29:45 > 0:29:48ability, we need to push as much as we can.Do you give them extra
0:29:48 > 0:29:54lessons, do they hang around?Yes, we do, we look to do extra lessons.
0:29:54 > 0:29:59It is an issue because of funding and staffing, being able to afford
0:29:59 > 0:30:04that resource is an issue for us. We have extra classes in registration
0:30:04 > 0:30:09times through the day as well. Certain times of the year we might
0:30:09 > 0:30:17collapse a subject and intensify the maths and English.Of the people are
0:30:17 > 0:30:21presented in the documentary, the more academically bright students,
0:30:21 > 0:30:24let's say, from less advantaged backgrounds, free school meals,
0:30:24 > 0:30:28basically, what sort of number should go to university and what
0:30:28 > 0:30:36kind will go to university?Well, I suppose in a year group of 200, a
0:30:36 > 0:30:39good 40%, on paper, should be able to go to university from our school
0:30:39 > 0:30:47and given our intake and their predicted grades. In terms of how
0:30:47 > 0:30:52many will, will go to university, it's often a very different picture.
0:30:52 > 0:30:58Much lower, yeah. There's obviously such a broad range of factors that
0:30:58 > 0:31:06mean it's an issue.Let me turn to you, Selina. We have a traditional
0:31:06 > 0:31:12motion of social mobility, that it's about helping people whose talent
0:31:12 > 0:31:18might otherwise be wasted, giving them the leg up so they can exploit
0:31:18 > 0:31:23their potential. Is that the right notion of social mobility?No, I'd
0:31:23 > 0:31:27argue that part of the real problem with social mobility is that it has
0:31:27 > 0:31:33been used by successive governments as really an opposition to equality.
0:31:33 > 0:31:37What has been described here is excellent practice in a nonselective
0:31:37 > 0:31:42school that seeks to value every child and say that every child
0:31:42 > 0:31:45matters but what we've seen with the political and media discourse around
0:31:45 > 0:31:50social mobility is that only a few are talented and we have to somehow
0:31:50 > 0:31:56get them on. Historically that doesn't work. The place where it was
0:31:56 > 0:32:00enshrined, one of the teachers on the documentary mentions the grammar
0:32:00 > 0:32:06schools. Between 1945 and the 70s the system is all about selection of
0:32:06 > 0:32:11the so-called brightest.Which involves taking them out.And giving
0:32:11 > 0:32:16them a particular education. It is predicated on the idea that children
0:32:16 > 0:32:19from working-class backgrounds are disadvantaged, a work that has been
0:32:19 > 0:32:23used tonight, that their background gives them nothing, they need to be
0:32:23 > 0:32:28taken out on it, but they can be prepared for university. The fact is
0:32:28 > 0:32:33it didn't work because we now know you cannot test or define brightness
0:32:33 > 0:32:39at 11 or even 16. Also it didn't work because the fact is that
0:32:39 > 0:32:43education alone cannot lead to social mobility.Are you saying it's
0:32:43 > 0:32:47not desirable to get those youngsters into university? You're
0:32:47 > 0:32:52not arguing that, are you?No, everybody who wants to go to
0:32:52 > 0:32:57university should be able to and if I had my way, I would elect Jeremy
0:32:57 > 0:33:01Corbyn tomorrow, I would end these pernicious tuition fees, I would
0:33:01 > 0:33:06properly fund comprehensibility education and I would say, let's
0:33:06 > 0:33:10rise up as a society and get rid of this ridiculous inequality.What do
0:33:10 > 0:33:16you do, suppose Jeremy Corbyn doesn't win the election tomorrow,
0:33:16 > 0:33:23where resources are limited, in a school like Jon's. Do you focus on
0:33:23 > 0:33:28the brighter ones and focus on getting them to university?I don't
0:33:28 > 0:33:33think that is being done at Jon's school, but that is right because
0:33:33 > 0:33:36these kids are not lacking aspiration, they are lacking
0:33:36 > 0:33:43material resources because...Is that true, Jon?There is an element
0:33:43 > 0:33:49of aspiration but that is a knock-on about the material resources. Social
0:33:49 > 0:33:53mobility for the students isn't just about getting a group to university,
0:33:53 > 0:33:57it has to be about improving housing, improving the income of the
0:33:57 > 0:34:02families and actually wrapping around the whole child. We are
0:34:02 > 0:34:05seeing cuts constantly, with mental health and all those other specs
0:34:05 > 0:34:14that are so vital...What is the main barrier to progress of those
0:34:14 > 0:34:22children? Is it home, chaotic lives, the teaching resources, the school?
0:34:22 > 0:34:27This is the crux of the issue which is why there isn't a magic bullet to
0:34:27 > 0:34:33solve the problem. It's everything. They have home lives which are
0:34:33 > 0:34:37chaotic, sometimes. I know through my own Jordan Cameron I've had a
0:34:37 > 0:34:41stressful day I'm not necessarily going to be devoting the time to
0:34:41 > 0:34:47educate at home in the way I should. -- through my own children, if I've
0:34:47 > 0:34:54had a stressful day. As we saw with Shaqiri, I am desperately wants
0:34:54 > 0:35:01better for her but she's at a loss. Selina, very briefly, pin you down,
0:35:01 > 0:35:07you are telling people not to go with the notion of social mobility,
0:35:07 > 0:35:11as popularly talked about, that it isn't the right metric to judge
0:35:11 > 0:35:15success?If we say that success means that people can lead lives
0:35:15 > 0:35:19that they find fulfilling and where they can provide for their families
0:35:19 > 0:35:22then we must expand employment opportunities and stop asking
0:35:22 > 0:35:25schools to do the work that government should be doing.The
0:35:25 > 0:35:33education system at the moment isn't doing that fully.Thanks very much.
0:35:33 > 0:35:35As political portraits go, the ones unveiled yesterday
0:35:35 > 0:35:38of Barack and Michelle Obama - you might have seen them,
0:35:38 > 0:35:45they're all over the place today - are pretty radical.
0:35:45 > 0:35:46African-American subjects, by African-American artists in
0:35:46 > 0:35:48striking poses.
0:35:48 > 0:35:52They'll "shake up the expectations and assumptions of visitors
0:35:52 > 0:35:54to the traditionally button-down presidential galleries," said
0:35:54 > 0:35:55the Washington Post.
0:35:55 > 0:35:57"Pretty sharp" said Mr Obama.
0:35:57 > 0:35:59Well, few politically-themed paintings get quite as much
0:35:59 > 0:36:02attention as those two have, and all the chatter made us wonder
0:36:02 > 0:36:04what it is that makes a great political portrait.
0:36:04 > 0:36:09Who better to give us an illustrated talk through that than Nicola Green?
0:36:09 > 0:36:15She has herself painted portraits of Obama in his 2008 campaign. We're
0:36:15 > 0:36:21going to do this with illustrations starting with an old one. Let's go
0:36:21 > 0:36:27back to Elizabeth the first. Well, this is 16th century painting, she
0:36:27 > 0:36:32is standing on top of the Earth. What's special about this?This is
0:36:32 > 0:36:39an early political portrait. I guess there are three elements to it, the
0:36:39 > 0:36:42collaboration, between the subject, the institution that commissions it
0:36:42 > 0:36:50and the artist. And in these early portraits, in a sense the monarch
0:36:50 > 0:36:56had absolute power in the 3-way collaboration. So she didn't
0:36:56 > 0:37:01actually commissioned portrait, it was commissioned by Ditchley, but he
0:37:01 > 0:37:06wanted to impress her and obviously the artist did too. She had absolute
0:37:06 > 0:37:12power.She's standing on top of the world. They did things like that,
0:37:12 > 0:37:17they wore things like that then.It is the ultimate power dressed! She
0:37:17 > 0:37:23has jewels and lace. This was just after the defeat of the Armada. The
0:37:23 > 0:37:28portrait expresses the beginning of Empire and that absolute power.So
0:37:28 > 0:37:32power is the word you keep using. Let's go onto another one, jumping
0:37:32 > 0:37:37ahead hundreds of years. Churchill. This is Graham Sutherland's famous
0:37:37 > 0:37:44one, which people who have watched the first series of the Crown, this
0:37:44 > 0:37:49was in one of the episodes. Barcelonnette powerful?This is a
0:37:49 > 0:37:54really interesting portrait because it was very controversial,
0:37:54 > 0:37:59Parliament and the House of Lords commissioned the portrait for his
0:37:59 > 0:38:0280th birthday -- does he look powerful? It was a birthday present
0:38:02 > 0:38:08to Winston Churchill and was presented to him and everyone loved
0:38:08 > 0:38:11it and it was critically acclaimed. He could understand it, he hated it
0:38:11 > 0:38:19because I think it didn't the picked him in a position of power.He is
0:38:19 > 0:38:23old, basically.He is old and he said he thought he looked drunk in
0:38:23 > 0:38:30it. But actually Sutherland didn't see it like that, he was inspired by
0:38:30 > 0:38:36Winston Churchill saying, I am a Rock and he saw it as solid.Let's
0:38:36 > 0:38:41go through another couple. We have Kennedy here, this is the ship Le
0:38:41 > 0:38:46Mans, I think it was done after the death of Kennedy.It was
0:38:46 > 0:38:51commissioned Jackie Kennedy. She said she wanted a portrait where he
0:38:51 > 0:38:56wasn't looking out with a piercing gaze, she was bored of that. She
0:38:56 > 0:39:02wanted this kind of pose. The artist said he wanted to depict him as a
0:39:02 > 0:39:06thinker and reflective but of course you can't help feeling about the
0:39:06 > 0:39:10national crisis and the personal crisis of what happened to Kennedy
0:39:10 > 0:39:15and how he died. But you know this was a radical portrait and when it
0:39:15 > 0:39:22was made, amongst the other presidential portraits which were
0:39:22 > 0:39:28more of an assertion of power, this is more reflective.You picked them
0:39:28 > 0:39:36but I like all of these! Let's go to this Obama one. Do you like it?He's
0:39:36 > 0:39:41a good friend of mine, I saw him in November and he talked about the
0:39:41 > 0:39:46process of photographing and choosing the pose, the artist. For
0:39:46 > 0:39:52him, that's great, it was commissioned by the National
0:39:52 > 0:39:56portrait Gallery, by the American people. I know what that
0:39:56 > 0:40:04responsibility feels like. A great weight.I think for a political
0:40:04 > 0:40:07pose, the backdrop is what is obviously striking.Incredibly
0:40:07 > 0:40:14striking. Sitting down, Jefferson's portrait, George W were sitting in
0:40:14 > 0:40:18this pose, it is meant to signify being a man of the people. In a way
0:40:18 > 0:40:27that isn't uncommon but the foliage, which Kehinde Wiley is known for, he
0:40:27 > 0:40:31has the chrysanthemums of Chicago and the blue lilies, representing
0:40:31 > 0:40:37cannier, where Obama's father was from and the jasmine, from Hawaii.
0:40:37 > 0:40:42In a sense it is about identity. He talked about wanting to think about
0:40:42 > 0:40:48whether the story of Obama, the story around him was bigger than
0:40:48 > 0:40:53Obama himself and I think that's represented by the foliage.I like
0:40:53 > 0:40:56it very much. Thanks for talking to us.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59That's it for tonight.
0:40:59 > 0:41:02I will be back tomorrow but until then, good night.