0:00:06 > 0:00:09The usual form is that the Northern Irish parties have the occasional
0:00:09 > 0:00:12lengthy sulk but then make up and get on with running
0:00:12 > 0:00:13the country again.
0:00:13 > 0:00:20This time it's just the sulk.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24The position of the UK Government remains the same, devolved
0:00:24 > 0:00:28government is in the best interest of everyone in Northern Ireland and
0:00:28 > 0:00:29is best for the union.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31is best for the union.
0:00:31 > 0:00:32For the Northern Ireland secretary,
0:00:32 > 0:00:34it's a Valentine's day headache.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36We'll ask the DUP whether they are embarrassed
0:00:36 > 0:00:40at the inability of their region to look after itself.
0:00:40 > 0:00:44Oxfam loses another star, Senegalese musician Baaba Maal told
0:00:44 > 0:00:49us tonight he's withdrawing as an ambassador for the charity.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52The charity's former Nigeria country manager tells
0:00:52 > 0:00:58us her own experiences of working there.
0:00:58 > 0:01:03And I thought that I would be protected. I thought I would be
0:01:03 > 0:01:05safeguarded from sexual harassment and from sexual abuse.
0:01:05 > 0:01:06and from sexual abuse.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09And why don't women dominate in subjects like science and maths?
0:01:09 > 0:01:11Is it because they're just not interested?
0:01:11 > 0:01:14People have long thought that the more gender equal a country,
0:01:14 > 0:01:17the more similar men and women will become in their interests
0:01:17 > 0:01:20and occupational choices.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23We find the opposite.
0:01:23 > 0:01:31We'll hear both sides of the argument.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36Hello, it's taken 13 months now for the two main parties
0:01:36 > 0:01:39in Northern Ireland to fail to form a government.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41At least until today they were working on trying to create one.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Remember, the Prime Minister went to Belfast on Monday
0:01:44 > 0:01:46with the Irish Taiseach, Leo Varadker, in the hope a deal
0:01:46 > 0:01:48was about to be born.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51But this afternoon, the talks collapsed.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53Sinn Fein and the DUP blame each other.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56The sticking point was an argument over official recognition
0:01:56 > 0:01:59of the Irish language.
0:01:59 > 0:02:07Now, let's be clear, that part of the UK is ungoverned
0:02:08 > 0:02:14right now and that it happens to be the same part that is at the most
0:02:14 > 0:02:17fraught border of the whole Brexit argument, is one massive
0:02:17 > 0:02:18headache for the British government.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21And making it all the more difficult is the fact that the UK government
0:02:21 > 0:02:23is sustained in parliament by the DUP.
0:02:23 > 0:02:30Two questions: how did we get here, and what happens now?
0:02:30 > 0:02:36A year is a long time in politics and sell them in the 13 months that
0:02:36 > 0:02:42storm has stood empty has the prospect for devolved government in
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Northern Ireland seem bleaker. Today the DUP pulled the plug on the
0:02:45 > 0:02:50latest round of talks, but crucially for the first time they appeared to
0:02:50 > 0:02:55call for the imposition of direct rule.As a result of our inability
0:02:55 > 0:02:59at this stage to reform an executive, it is incumbent upon her
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Majesty's government to step in and come forward with a budget and start
0:03:03 > 0:03:08taking some key decisions around health, education and infrastructure
0:03:08 > 0:03:13and taking decisions in those matters that really mattered to the
0:03:13 > 0:03:15people of Northern Ireland.Perhaps unsurprisingly Sinn Fein put the
0:03:15 > 0:03:21blame on the DUP.The DUP leadership has failed to come forward and close
0:03:21 > 0:03:25on the issues where we found an accommodation. These issues will not
0:03:25 > 0:03:31go away. We are engaged with both governments and over the course of
0:03:31 > 0:03:35tomorrow we will set out more positive response in relation to
0:03:35 > 0:03:39where we go from here.The stumbling block is ever was the thorny issue
0:03:39 > 0:03:44of the Irish language. We have seen deadlines come and go this year, but
0:03:44 > 0:03:50could this really be the end the line?
0:03:51 > 0:03:54line? In January 2017, the late Martin McGuinness stood down as
0:03:54 > 0:03:59Deputy First Minister in protest at the handling of a controversial
0:03:59 > 0:04:02renewable heating scheme. The Stormont government collapsed and
0:04:02 > 0:04:06still has not returned. A second election in two years failed to
0:04:06 > 0:04:11break the deadlock and talks between Sinn Fein and the DUP failed again
0:04:11 > 0:04:17and again. Fast forward to 2018 and hopes of a deal looked brighter.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20Theresa May even visited Belfast this week to push things over the
0:04:20 > 0:04:25line. No such luck. But as civil servants have warned that pressing
0:04:25 > 0:04:31budget decisions need to be made, the restoration of democratic
0:04:31 > 0:04:37accountability is becoming critical. All sides reaffirmed their
0:04:37 > 0:04:41commitment to the principles of devolution. But direct rule seems
0:04:41 > 0:04:47more likely now than at any stage in the last decade. A return to direct
0:04:47 > 0:04:51rule presents a number of challenges. For one thing, there are
0:04:51 > 0:04:55serious concerns about the constitutional readiness of the
0:04:55 > 0:04:59Northern Ireland Office in the treasury behind me to handle the
0:04:59 > 0:05:03logistical challenge of running Northern Ireland from Whitehall. It
0:05:03 > 0:05:09employs around 150 people for example. Second, in a Parliamentary
0:05:09 > 0:05:13timetable that is full to bursting with Brexit legislation it is not
0:05:13 > 0:05:16clear how the necessary space will be made for running Northern Ireland
0:05:16 > 0:05:21from Westminster. Direct rule from Westminster has happened before, but
0:05:21 > 0:05:26not quite like this.Never before have we had a British Government
0:05:26 > 0:05:32that is beholden to the DUP. The nationalist parties, Sinn Fein and
0:05:32 > 0:05:38the SDLP, will be aware of that and they were really want to find some
0:05:38 > 0:05:42ways of mitigating that DUP influence in joint authority or some
0:05:42 > 0:05:45form of joint authority between the British and Irish governments is
0:05:45 > 0:05:51something they will push forward to mitigate that DUP influence at
0:05:51 > 0:05:54Westminster.The institutions of the Good Friday Agreement provides for
0:05:54 > 0:05:58at least one form of joint authority, that is clear. The
0:05:58 > 0:06:01prospect of ever getting an executive up and running again in
0:06:01 > 0:06:03Stormont is much less so.
0:06:05 > 0:06:06Stormont is much less so.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10We'll speak to the DUP in a moment, but first I'm joined from Belfast
0:06:10 > 0:06:12by Ciaran Mac Gilla Vine - he's from the campaign group con-roo
0:06:12 > 0:06:15na gaeligah which advocates for the Irish Language.
0:06:15 > 0:06:21Good evening. Can you explain to us what the issue is about an Irish
0:06:21 > 0:06:27language at, what would be in it and what difference it would make?In
0:06:27 > 0:06:292006 in the International Saint Andrews agreement but the British
0:06:29 > 0:06:36and Irish governments committed to introducing an Irish language act,
0:06:36 > 0:06:39essentially affording Irish speaking citizens hear the same rights that
0:06:39 > 0:06:44the speakers of Welsh in Wales get for instance. Since then the DUP use
0:06:44 > 0:06:49their veto and their power to prevent this and at the same time
0:06:49 > 0:06:54took a number of progressive measures against the Irish language.
0:06:54 > 0:07:00Most recently they blocked a scheme which supported disadvantaged young
0:07:00 > 0:07:04people and this brought the issue and compounded the issue of the
0:07:04 > 0:07:11absence of rights for the Irish here.In practical terms what would
0:07:11 > 0:07:17the act have in it that would legislate or mandate or prohibit?
0:07:17 > 0:07:22What would it actually do that you cannot do now?The basic elements of
0:07:22 > 0:07:28the act that we have been calling for, based on best international
0:07:28 > 0:07:32practice, would be things like official status for the language,
0:07:32 > 0:07:35currently the language has no official status. We want an
0:07:35 > 0:07:41independent commissioner to remove the language from that atmosphere at
0:07:41 > 0:07:47Stormont. We want more visibility for the language through signage on
0:07:47 > 0:07:53our roads and on public buildings. Basic measures that are afforded
0:07:53 > 0:07:58across other regions in the UK and afforded to Irish citizens in the
0:07:58 > 0:08:02south, but which the DUP have steadfastly refused to allow here.
0:08:02 > 0:08:08Is there anything you could offer in return? Arlene Foster said respect
0:08:08 > 0:08:12for the union and British identity has to be in doubt, it cannot be a
0:08:12 > 0:08:18one-way street. Is there any trait to be done there? Clearly they have
0:08:18 > 0:08:21tried and failed, but is there anything you could think that you
0:08:21 > 0:08:28could offer that would satisfy her? I am not offering anything, I am
0:08:28 > 0:08:34just advocating for the Irish language. But it was made in the
0:08:34 > 0:08:37Saint Andrews agreement, the very firm commitment around the Irish
0:08:37 > 0:08:42language and that was already made in 2006. What we need is
0:08:42 > 0:08:46implementation of that deal. We need citizens here to be afforded rights
0:08:46 > 0:08:51and the DUP about this very strongly as the UK and how we are in tune
0:08:51 > 0:08:56with the rest of the UK, but when it comes to different speakers of the
0:08:56 > 0:08:59language, there is a marked difference on how they are treated
0:08:59 > 0:09:04and that cannot continue and there will not be another assembly here
0:09:04 > 0:09:08that facilitate the discrimination against Irish speakers. Largely as a
0:09:08 > 0:09:15society here, they look at the case of Irish speakers as a litmus test
0:09:15 > 0:09:22to see how serious the DUP are about our future.Let's stop to the DUP.
0:09:22 > 0:09:23Let's stop to the DUP.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25Joining me now from Londonderry is Gregory Campbell,
0:09:25 > 0:09:27DUP MP for East Londonderry and member of the Northern Ireland
0:09:27 > 0:09:29Affairs Select Committee.
0:09:29 > 0:09:37Good evening.Good evening. Is he right when he says it is an agreed
0:09:37 > 0:09:41principle that there will be an Irish language act. It was in the St
0:09:41 > 0:09:47Andrews agreement in 2006 and it has not happened?What happened was the
0:09:47 > 0:09:53UK Government as part of a side deal with Sinn Fein agreed there should
0:09:53 > 0:09:58be one but it would be a matter for the devolved institution to
0:09:58 > 0:10:03establish how that might work. What has happened in the intervening ten
0:10:03 > 0:10:08or 12 years, and this is where the previous speaker I'm afraid apart
0:10:08 > 0:10:12from outlining a very prejudiced view was totally inaccurate, not
0:10:12 > 0:10:18only is the Irish language not disadvantaged, tens of millions of
0:10:18 > 0:10:22resources are lavished on the Irish language. In fact, if you look at
0:10:22 > 0:10:26the whole series of minority languages in Northern Ireland, more
0:10:26 > 0:10:29money is put into the promotion of Irish and all the other language is
0:10:29 > 0:10:35put together. There are Irish language schools open aplenty.I am
0:10:35 > 0:10:40sorry, I do not want to get into the argument about it, was it agreed
0:10:40 > 0:10:44there would be an Irish language act? It seems the British Government
0:10:44 > 0:10:48did agree to that and the British Government is now likely to take
0:10:48 > 0:10:53control so you would have no objection to the British Government
0:10:53 > 0:10:58meeting its obligation to give them an Irish language act?What we need
0:10:58 > 0:11:01to do is look at this in terms of an agreement to get political
0:11:01 > 0:11:07consensus.I thought it was done in the St Andrews agreement, a
0:11:07 > 0:11:11provision for an Irish language act? If you signed it, you have to
0:11:11 > 0:11:21deliver it, right?We were asked to give our consent to get, we were not
0:11:21 > 0:11:26asked, that was not great.But the British Government has an
0:11:26 > 0:11:30international obligation to deliver an Irish language act. If the
0:11:30 > 0:11:35British Government takes direct rule and imposes an Irish language act,
0:11:35 > 0:11:39what will you do?Will that be a problem? Of course it would be a
0:11:39 > 0:11:42problem because it would further advantage the Irish language over
0:11:42 > 0:11:47and above where we stand at the moment. It is advantageous position
0:11:47 > 0:11:52would be increased even more. The problem is not the Irish language,
0:11:52 > 0:11:57it is the politicisation of that language. No one in Wales and
0:11:57 > 0:12:01Scotland who uses Gallic uses it as a political weapon to attack
0:12:01 > 0:12:06Scotland and Wales from the UK, but that is what happens here.Would you
0:12:06 > 0:12:12bring the British Government down if they said, by the way, we are going
0:12:12 > 0:12:19to give them an Irish language act? Would you bring Theresa May's
0:12:19 > 0:12:22government down because you are holding her up at the moment?It is
0:12:22 > 0:12:26not an issue to bring governments down, what we want to do is
0:12:26 > 0:12:31re-establish one that we have not got the moment. We can only do that
0:12:31 > 0:12:39if people move forward on the basis of some form of consensus, so we win
0:12:39 > 0:12:48and Sinn Fein wins, unionism wins and nationalism wins.If the British
0:12:48 > 0:12:51Government says we have taken direct control and everywhere in the UK has
0:12:51 > 0:12:56same-sex marriage, you would not mind? You would not bring the
0:12:56 > 0:12:59government down if they said that on day one they would have same-sex
0:12:59 > 0:13:05marriage in Northern Ireland?Well, you see, if we went down that route
0:13:05 > 0:13:09we would put forward a series of other proposals we would ask from
0:13:09 > 0:13:13the government. It is not advantageous to talk about if our
0:13:13 > 0:13:21government in London were to say, you is what we plan to do, A, B, C,
0:13:21 > 0:13:25and offend everybody in the course of that.You are not running
0:13:25 > 0:13:29Northern Ireland, you have stepped away, no one in Northern Ireland is
0:13:29 > 0:13:33running it. You have suggested that the British Government run Northern
0:13:33 > 0:13:38Ireland, so why shouldn't they run it like the rest of Britain?
0:13:38 > 0:13:40Same-sex marriage everywhere, why should they not do that in Northern
0:13:40 > 0:13:45Ireland if you want them to run it? Do you want them to run it on your
0:13:45 > 0:13:52terms?What we want to do, all of these matters, whether it is Irish
0:13:52 > 0:13:55language or same-sex marriage, we want to work at trying to resolve
0:13:55 > 0:14:00them within the context of the Stormont institutions, the devolved
0:14:00 > 0:14:04institutions. We are not leaving those things out and saying they
0:14:04 > 0:14:07will never happen, we are saying we are not prepared to jeopardise the
0:14:07 > 0:14:13government in Northern Ireland on the altar of some sort of
0:14:13 > 0:14:16precondition which is we will only operate the government if we get all
0:14:16 > 0:14:21these things. That is a recipe for a zero-sum game and we cannot do that.
0:14:21 > 0:14:26We have got to get a government up and running and we will sort those
0:14:26 > 0:14:29issues out across the divide and reach some sort of accommodation
0:14:29 > 0:14:37that everyone can live with.Thank so much.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40Oxfam has lost another ambassador tonight amid the scandal which has
0:14:40 > 0:14:42engulfed the charity.
0:14:42 > 0:14:43Last night it was Minnie Driver who stepped away.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45Now the well-known Senegalese musician Baaba Maal has told
0:14:45 > 0:14:47Newsnight he's breaking his link to the organisation.
0:14:47 > 0:14:52Mr Maal had been a global ambassador for Oxfam since 2012
0:14:52 > 0:14:54but in a statement he told this programme, "What has
0:14:54 > 0:14:57happened on a human level is disgusting and heart breaking.
0:14:57 > 0:14:58It is very sad.
0:14:58 > 0:14:59Vulnerable people, especially children,
0:14:59 > 0:15:00should always be protected.
0:15:00 > 0:15:08As such I am disassociating myself from Oxfam immediately".
0:15:08 > 0:15:10Meanwhile, more continues to emerge about Oxfam and other NGOs.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13It's the familiar phenomenon of the dam bursting -
0:15:13 > 0:15:15one accusation breaks through at first, leading
0:15:15 > 0:15:17to a flood thereafter.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20Tonight we bring you separate testimony from two former aid
0:15:20 > 0:15:21workers who together raise new questions about
0:15:21 > 0:15:25the crisis in the sector.
0:15:25 > 0:15:27We'll start with Lesley Agams, who worked as Oxfam's country
0:15:27 > 0:15:33director in Nigeria, and who claims she was sexually
0:15:33 > 0:15:36assaulted by a more senior manager while on an official gathering
0:15:36 > 0:15:40in Oxford in 2010.
0:15:40 > 0:15:45She informally reported what had happened and tried to secure
0:15:45 > 0:15:47an apology only to find herself sacked from the charity
0:15:47 > 0:15:49a few months later.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51I spoke to Lesley Agams from Abuja earlier this evening,
0:15:51 > 0:15:59starting with what had happened on that night in Oxford in 2010.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07Myself and other country directors from West Africa, we have been
0:16:07 > 0:16:11sitting with him, just talking shop. He kept on referring to a document
0:16:11 > 0:16:15that he wanted me to see. I wasn't sure what it was and he kept on
0:16:15 > 0:16:30saying he would want me to go pick it up when we go up stairs. I went.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34At the time I only hesitated for one reason. I did not want to be seen in
0:16:34 > 0:16:39his room or stay too long in his room because I did not want any kind
0:16:39 > 0:16:45of, anything which might impinge on my on my professional capacity. But
0:16:45 > 0:16:49I went anyway to pick up the document, I thought it would be a
0:16:49 > 0:16:54brief visit. We got to his room and he showed me what I discovered was a
0:16:54 > 0:16:58concept map. I said OK, let's discuss it on Monday, the next day.
0:16:58 > 0:17:05As I was leaving the room and about to go out the door he grabbed me.
0:17:05 > 0:17:11And he assaulted me. I managed to get out of his grip and rise of the
0:17:11 > 0:17:17hotel room.I am sorry to make you recount that. Let's pick up the
0:17:17 > 0:17:24story after, you did tell Oxfam, you told somebody there, you did not
0:17:24 > 0:17:27make a formal complaint at that point, you thought you would try to
0:17:27 > 0:17:30deal with it by extracting an apology and a guarantee it would not
0:17:30 > 0:17:36happen again, did not want to make a formal complaint did you?I need to
0:17:36 > 0:17:40give some context, I mean, why did you not report is the question every
0:17:40 > 0:17:43victim and survivor of violence against women always asked. I was
0:17:43 > 0:17:49aware I was working in actual environment. Even at our regional
0:17:49 > 0:17:55headquarters there was a casual sex going on. At the time this incident
0:17:55 > 0:18:00happened -- a casual sexism going on. At the time of this incident, I
0:18:00 > 0:18:06felt even if my abuser was punished I would not be able to work in West
0:18:06 > 0:18:13Africa. As for an apology it was a suggestion of the human resources
0:18:13 > 0:18:22person I spoke to, that I was reporting this incident to at Oxfam.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26Her first question was if I had had an affair with him. It was not until
0:18:26 > 0:18:30later it had occurred to me that for her to ask that question major did
0:18:30 > 0:18:35not believe what I was saying in the first place.Perhaps the most
0:18:35 > 0:18:39extraordinary part of the story is that you were terminated, sent a
0:18:39 > 0:18:45note of dismissal from Oxfam about three months later. And of course
0:18:45 > 0:18:48the man who use a assaulted you was involved in the decision to
0:18:48 > 0:18:53terminate your contract.He was the one who delivered the letter to me,
0:18:53 > 0:18:58he was the one who signed the letter to me. And while I am sure that
0:18:58 > 0:19:02other people might have been involved in that decision, he was
0:19:02 > 0:19:07the one who carried it out.You are in the end did leave Oxfam, you're
0:19:07 > 0:19:12pushed out and you had a terrible time trying to get them to see it
0:19:12 > 0:19:16from your point of view.They made no effort whatsoever to actually
0:19:16 > 0:19:21conduct a proper investigation. I was not able to go and make this
0:19:21 > 0:19:27report to Thames Valley Police until 12 months later. At the time they
0:19:27 > 0:19:31told me how unfortunate it was because they could no longer request
0:19:31 > 0:19:37for the CCTV footage from the hotel, that would have a least shown me
0:19:37 > 0:19:41running out of the hotel room, both going with him to the hotel room and
0:19:41 > 0:19:46running out of the hotel room. Because the CCTV footage is only
0:19:46 > 0:19:51kept for six months. That was a time when I even got even more angry with
0:19:51 > 0:19:57Oxfam.I think many people will be surprised that an organisation which
0:19:57 > 0:20:03is so progressive in its political campaigns and in its general outlook
0:20:03 > 0:20:09would be handling this in a way which leaves you so dissatisfied,
0:20:09 > 0:20:14what is going on here do you think? I was extremely surprised myself. I
0:20:14 > 0:20:20started work in the humanitarian sector five years before that
0:20:20 > 0:20:25because I thought it was an international organisation, it was a
0:20:25 > 0:20:31humanitarian organisation and I thought that I would be protected, I
0:20:31 > 0:20:38thought I would be safeguarded from sexual harassment and sexual abuse.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41I did not in my wildest imagination think I would receive the sort of
0:20:41 > 0:20:46treatment that I have. I think it is self evident. I think Oxfam has put
0:20:46 > 0:20:53the reputation before the lives of both the people who work for them
0:20:53 > 0:20:57and the people who they claim to work for.What is your advice to
0:20:57 > 0:21:02people who want to help poor countries, who maybe have a desire
0:21:02 > 0:21:08to donate money to those in GOP Australia who are helping other
0:21:08 > 0:21:13countries, what is your advice? Is your advice to not give money to
0:21:13 > 0:21:17Oxfam? Is Oxfam worse than the others?I think it's an issue of
0:21:17 > 0:21:26power. It's an organisation which has gotten too powerful and as they
0:21:26 > 0:21:29say, power corrupts. They began to rebel more in their power than the
0:21:29 > 0:21:36good things they give people. But if people want to help, help is good.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40That is what makes us human. That is what keeps us human. I think it's
0:21:40 > 0:21:47important we continue to support each other as human beings. I think
0:21:47 > 0:21:51after my treatment a lot of the stories I have heard from people,
0:21:51 > 0:21:54from women who have no intention of coming forward because they still
0:21:54 > 0:22:02have careers and from what we've heard both from the UK and Chad --
0:22:02 > 0:22:06from Haiti and Chad, the statement that women are at the centre of our
0:22:06 > 0:22:10work, takes on a very sinister meaning.Thank you so much for
0:22:10 > 0:22:13talking to us.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16I should say that although we've not named the man who Lesley says
0:22:16 > 0:22:18attacked her, his account of what happened that
0:22:18 > 0:22:19evening is very different.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22He denies assault and on his version of events, Lesley's contract
0:22:22 > 0:22:25was terminated because the Nigeria programme was not going well.
0:22:25 > 0:22:33We did ask Oxfam for an interview today but nobody was available.
0:22:33 > 0:22:39In a statement the charity said the decision to sack Leslie was taken by
0:22:39 > 0:22:45people more senior than her manager. It said an investigation by its own
0:22:45 > 0:22:48staff and the police failed to find sufficient evidence to substantiate
0:22:48 > 0:22:51her claims.
0:22:51 > 0:22:56Well, let's hear about another aid charity and another case now.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59This NGO was called Merlin, but this does involve the man
0:22:59 > 0:23:01at the centre of the main Oxfam scandal, the Belgian
0:23:01 > 0:23:06Roland Van Hauwermeiren.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08He was running Oxfam's programme in Haiti but was sacked
0:23:08 > 0:23:09for using prostitutes.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12He has been very quiet since the whole scandal erupted last
0:23:12 > 0:23:14week, no journalist seems to have found him.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17But it emerged yesterday he had been implicated in similar misconduct
0:23:17 > 0:23:18in Liberia years before.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21Paul Hardcastle is a veteran aid worker and was there in Liberia
0:23:21 > 0:23:23with Merlin at the same time as Van Hauwermeiren
0:23:23 > 0:23:26and he complained at what he saw.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30I asked him what Roland Van Hauwermeiren was like.
0:23:30 > 0:23:37Well, he was Belgian, he spoke two or three languages.
0:23:37 > 0:23:41He was an ex-Belgian army officer and he was
0:23:41 > 0:23:47about 50-52 at the time.
0:23:47 > 0:23:53And he was the country manager for Merlin in
0:23:53 > 0:23:56Liberia and he had been there for about 18 months.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00But you were saying that when you were in Liberia, and
0:24:00 > 0:24:03you were not there as long as he was, when you were there you were
0:24:03 > 0:24:06seeing things you did not think we're good at all.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08So what were you seeing that you thought was really
0:24:08 > 0:24:09bad conduct?
0:24:09 > 0:24:13I was seeing just open corruption.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16I mean, the Merlin office was, I am sorry to say this,
0:24:16 > 0:24:18it was like the marketplace.
0:24:18 > 0:24:23Our fuel was being stolen at a huge rate,
0:24:23 > 0:24:24something like 1000 gallons in
0:24:24 > 0:24:31a month, that type of thing, a massive amount of fuel loss which
0:24:31 > 0:24:36meant that we couldn't run our field vehicles, which meant that we
0:24:36 > 0:24:41couldn't implement our programme and said that was my first head to head
0:24:41 > 0:24:43with Roland.
0:24:43 > 0:24:49Tell us about the sexual stuff.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52Explain what was going on on a typical night what is
0:24:52 > 0:24:53actually happening.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55What are those staff at headquarters doing in
0:24:55 > 0:25:00Monrovia?
0:25:00 > 0:25:03Yeah, well, it was much less restricted than being in the
0:25:03 > 0:25:04field basically.
0:25:04 > 0:25:06There was a UN curfew at 11 o'clock so everybody
0:25:06 > 0:25:09should be in their houses at 11 o'clock for security reasons
0:25:09 > 0:25:12obviously.
0:25:12 > 0:25:20But this was not the case.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23With Merlin they were the exception so they had their drivers
0:25:23 > 0:25:25on stand-by to ferry them around to the nightclubs
0:25:25 > 0:25:27and then to bring the
0:25:27 > 0:25:30girls back to his house, his own team has as it were.
0:25:30 > 0:25:32And then ferried the girls back again.
0:25:32 > 0:25:38An interesting question is why these practices were tolerated.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40I know you didn't want to tolerate them, so who
0:25:40 > 0:25:41did you take them to?
0:25:41 > 0:25:43Who did you tell?
0:25:43 > 0:25:46OK, well, there was a line of control in terms of personnel
0:25:46 > 0:25:49management and it was quite clear we had a code of conduct and so you
0:25:49 > 0:25:52reported, as I was the senior manager within Merlin, so then you
0:25:52 > 0:26:00have to report to your country manager.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04The trouble was, that is where it was coming from, the
0:26:04 > 0:26:05country manager.
0:26:05 > 0:26:07You went back to London at that point to Merlin
0:26:07 > 0:26:08headquarters in London?
0:26:08 > 0:26:16Yes.
0:26:19 > 0:26:22So he sacked me and I rang up Merlin
0:26:22 > 0:26:24headquarters in London and I said to them,
0:26:24 > 0:26:25I've been sacked, it is an
0:26:25 > 0:26:27obvious setup job, I will write you a situation
0:26:27 > 0:26:29report, an evaluation.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32And I did that and I went back to London and had several meetings
0:26:32 > 0:26:36with all the main staff in Merlin and
0:26:36 > 0:26:44they agreed that they would go out and assess the situation, which they
0:26:50 > 0:26:52did, and then they made the decisions to fire
0:26:52 > 0:26:54them, or, for them to resign.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57And I think the only fired one person and I think two
0:26:57 > 0:26:58people resigned.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00But the important thing is that they must have known
0:27:00 > 0:27:02that this was going on.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04You would have to be entirely blind or not to
0:27:04 > 0:27:10listen to any of the people out there.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13No one dared to blow the whistle and that is a huge
0:27:13 > 0:27:21problem with aid agencies.
0:27:22 > 0:27:26Do you give money to aid agencies, to NGOs working out
0:27:26 > 0:27:28in the field now?
0:27:28 > 0:27:31Evan, between you and me, I would never give a pound and I
0:27:31 > 0:27:33have never given a pound.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35I have worked for many years, over 45 years
0:27:35 > 0:27:39in the field, a 50 year period, and I would never give £1 to any aid
0:27:39 > 0:27:40organisation.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42Just to sort of explain that, there is such a
0:27:42 > 0:27:47disconnect between the head office and the field.
0:27:47 > 0:27:49And there is a disconnect which is incredibly
0:27:49 > 0:27:52serious.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56Basically aid workers are not getting the support that they
0:27:56 > 0:28:02deserve and that they need and that includes guidance, training, it
0:28:02 > 0:28:04includes back stopping, these things have to happen in any
0:28:04 > 0:28:09dire situation like that.
0:28:09 > 0:28:13You are talking about human beings.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15By head office you don't mean London, you mean the
0:28:15 > 0:28:17office in the country?
0:28:17 > 0:28:18You mean London?
0:28:18 > 0:28:26I mean London.
0:28:26 > 0:28:28And that is why I am talking about it.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30That is why I am passionate about explaining
0:28:30 > 0:28:33this situation so that aid organisations can get their house in
0:28:33 > 0:28:34order.
0:28:34 > 0:28:40Paul Hardcastle, thank you very much indeed for talking to us.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44Now, Merlin that you heard mentioned there joined
0:28:44 > 0:28:47Save the Children in 2013, nine years after these events.
0:28:47 > 0:28:50Save the Children has told us that Roland Van Hauwermeiren was never
0:28:50 > 0:28:51an employee of theirs.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54They said they are unable to assist any further in this matter.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56Newsnight has been unable to contact Mr Van Hauwermeiren
0:28:56 > 0:29:00for his own comment.
0:29:00 > 0:29:03Last summer, a Google engineer wrote a memo suggesting that the company's
0:29:03 > 0:29:05drive to get more women into its coding jobs
0:29:05 > 0:29:07was potentially not going to work.
0:29:07 > 0:29:10Fewer women may be interested in those jobs, he said,
0:29:10 > 0:29:15citing biological differences between men and women.
0:29:15 > 0:29:17The memo turned out to be very controversial -
0:29:17 > 0:29:19this subject always is - and the writer, James
0:29:19 > 0:29:23Damore, was sacked.
0:29:23 > 0:29:25He probably hardened opinion in favour of helping women overcome
0:29:25 > 0:29:26inequalities in the workplace.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29But lurking in the background are one or two interesting
0:29:29 > 0:29:32observations that even critics of the Google memo have to concede.
0:29:32 > 0:29:35That women have come to dominate some previously male
0:29:35 > 0:29:37professions, but not others.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39How come?
0:29:39 > 0:29:42And there is an observed paradox that more gender equal countries
0:29:42 > 0:29:46seem to have fewer women in science and engineering.
0:29:46 > 0:29:47Can that be right?
0:29:47 > 0:29:49Our technology editor David Grossman has been looking at the evidence.
0:29:58 > 0:30:01Many university physical science labs physically resemble this
0:30:01 > 0:30:06robotics laboratory at Leeds University.
0:30:06 > 0:30:10Getting more women to study and pursue careers in stem subjects,
0:30:10 > 0:30:16science, technology engineering and maths has in recent years crept
0:30:16 > 0:30:20up the political agenda.
0:30:20 > 0:30:23Looking at undergraduate enrolments in 2016-17,
0:30:23 > 0:30:28of students whose principal subject was physics, just 22.1% were women.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32In computer science just 17.2%.
0:30:32 > 0:30:36In engineering and technology, 17.6%.
0:30:36 > 0:30:40And in maths just 37.1%.
0:30:40 > 0:30:45A study published today by researchers in Leeds and Missouri
0:30:45 > 0:30:48suggests the solutions may not be straightforward.
0:30:48 > 0:30:52People have long thought that the more gender equal a country
0:30:52 > 0:30:56is, the more similar boys and girls and men and women will
0:30:56 > 0:30:59become in their interests and occupational choices.
0:30:59 > 0:31:03If you ask the average person in the street do you think
0:31:03 > 0:31:08that there are more women going into stem in Finland
0:31:08 > 0:31:10and Norway than in Turkey or Algeria, people will say
0:31:10 > 0:31:14obviously Finland or Norway because we know those are very
0:31:14 > 0:31:16gender equal countries.
0:31:16 > 0:31:21But we see the opposite, said that is a very paradoxical
0:31:21 > 0:31:24But we see the opposite, so that is a very paradoxical
0:31:24 > 0:31:27finding and that is why we called this study the gender
0:31:27 > 0:31:28equality paradox.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30The researchers took the level of gender equality as measured
0:31:30 > 0:31:33by the World Economic Forum's global gender gap index and plotted it
0:31:33 > 0:31:37against the proportion of women graduates in stem subjects.
0:31:37 > 0:31:41No countries were high on both measures.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44Countries like Finland, Norway and Sweden measured high
0:31:44 > 0:31:48for gender equality, but low for women stem graduates.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51In countries like UAE, Tunisia, Turkey and Algeria
0:31:51 > 0:31:53it was the other way around.
0:31:53 > 0:31:58This, by the way, is the UK.
0:31:58 > 0:32:01What the study does not do is come up with any firm answers
0:32:01 > 0:32:03as to why this should be, although the researchers
0:32:03 > 0:32:05do have a theory.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08Life satisfaction is higher in gender equal countries
0:32:08 > 0:32:11and we think that when life satisfaction is higher
0:32:11 > 0:32:14and when people feel more secure in a society,
0:32:14 > 0:32:18they feel they can do what they really like.
0:32:18 > 0:32:25They are less driven by economic interests.
0:32:25 > 0:32:27But there are other explanations offered, that women in less gender
0:32:27 > 0:32:30equal societies have not been excluded from science
0:32:30 > 0:32:37in the past like women in Europe and North America.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40The only female Fields Medal winner winner, the Fields Medal
0:32:40 > 0:32:42is like the Nobel Prize for mathematics,
0:32:42 > 0:32:45was Maryam Mirzakhani, an Iranian-American women,
0:32:45 > 0:32:47and I don't think that is a coincidence
0:32:47 > 0:32:50that she happened to be Iranian.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53Iran has very good rates of women in science.
0:32:53 > 0:32:57They don't have the same stereotypes for some reason as Europe does.
0:32:57 > 0:33:01So I think really this reflects a historical fact,
0:33:01 > 0:33:06this long legacy of exclusion is the reason why in Europe we still
0:33:06 > 0:33:10see this lag, women catching up.
0:33:10 > 0:33:14We are still working so hard to change the culture
0:33:14 > 0:33:20because for so long the culture was so against women.
0:33:20 > 0:33:26However, the gap in so-called stem subjects only tells us part
0:33:26 > 0:33:30of the story about women studying science subjects at university.
0:33:30 > 0:33:34There are plenty of subjects with big gender gaps that favour women.
0:33:34 > 0:33:37Of undergraduates whose principal subject is
0:33:37 > 0:33:41medicine, 55.2% are women.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43In dentistry it is 62%.
0:33:43 > 0:33:47In biological sciences it is 63%.
0:33:47 > 0:33:51In veterinary science it is 77.3%.
0:33:51 > 0:33:55And in nursing it is 90.5%.
0:33:55 > 0:33:59Indeed, taken as a whole, women account for 51.5%, just over half
0:33:59 > 0:34:03of science undergraduate enrolments.
0:34:03 > 0:34:09Most subjects at university are dominated by women.
0:34:09 > 0:34:12There are very few areas - we mentioned engineering
0:34:12 > 0:34:15and computer science that are dominated by men -
0:34:15 > 0:34:19but the gaps there are much smaller than for things like nursing,
0:34:19 > 0:34:24teaching, social work, education studies and so on.
0:34:24 > 0:34:27I think it would be much better if we concentrated in getting gender
0:34:27 > 0:34:31equality across all subject areas, rather than just focusing
0:34:31 > 0:34:36narrowly on stem.
0:34:36 > 0:34:40So why do men and women often end up on different career paths?
0:34:40 > 0:34:43Why are some occupations so dominated by one gender?
0:34:43 > 0:34:51The answers, it appears, are far from straightforward.
0:34:51 > 0:34:54I am joined now by Jess Wade, a Physician from Imperial College
0:34:54 > 0:34:56London, and Belinda Brown, a research associate
0:34:56 > 0:35:00from University College London.
0:35:00 > 0:35:08Good evening. Do you basically think men and women are the same and you
0:35:08 > 0:35:16would expect them, short of social pressure, to be more or less the
0:35:16 > 0:35:21same?I do not think they are the same, I acknowledge there are
0:35:21 > 0:35:24differences, but I think men and women can contribute equally to the
0:35:24 > 0:35:30success of science and I think it is important for physics, engineering,
0:35:30 > 0:35:34biology, computer science, that everyone is involved in research so
0:35:34 > 0:35:37we get the most interesting outcomes and the diverse range of
0:35:37 > 0:35:43conversations happening.Would you think 50-50 recruitment at
0:35:43 > 0:35:47university at postgrad is about right?It is realistic to expect
0:35:47 > 0:35:54that. In all cases, especially cases I have come across, and I work a lot
0:35:54 > 0:35:59with the Institute of physics who have done a lot of good work in this
0:35:59 > 0:36:02area, girls enjoy subjects like physics and if they are encouraged
0:36:02 > 0:36:05to do them and if they have the confidence to do them and they
0:36:05 > 0:36:10studied them, they can do really well in them. We need to make sure
0:36:10 > 0:36:14everyone is aware that can study the subject and they can have an awesome
0:36:14 > 0:36:17time at university and feel like they can contribute. Science would
0:36:17 > 0:36:23be better if they contributed.Do you disagree with anything Jess has
0:36:23 > 0:36:31just said?I am all for encouraging everybody to study science as Jess
0:36:31 > 0:36:37says. We have to be a little bit careful because there has been a
0:36:37 > 0:36:41really big emphasis on discrimination happening and this
0:36:41 > 0:36:46can actually have the unintended consequence of getting women into
0:36:46 > 0:36:52science because they think there is discrimination in there and it puts
0:36:52 > 0:36:57them of doing it. Really we want to sell science as a great subject to
0:36:57 > 0:37:04boys and girls equally.Would you expect if you pushed it equally to
0:37:04 > 0:37:12everybody that the outcome would be 50-50?No, I would not. You would
0:37:12 > 0:37:16probably end up with fewer girls in these very select few, say
0:37:16 > 0:37:20computing, engineering and physics. We probably will end up with
0:37:20 > 0:37:25slightly fewer girls and this does come back to differences which you
0:37:25 > 0:37:31find universally. Whether you are looking at gender equal countries or
0:37:31 > 0:37:34gender unequal countries, even in the countries where there are more
0:37:34 > 0:37:42female scientists, there were still fewer, I will not say scientists, I
0:37:42 > 0:37:45will say more female programmers, there will still be fewer female
0:37:45 > 0:37:50programmers. This goes back to differences at all kinds of levels
0:37:50 > 0:37:55between men and women and some of these, for example women will turn
0:37:55 > 0:38:03to prioritise. Even when you are looking at the most mathematically
0:38:03 > 0:38:07precocious women they will prioritise the work - life buyers.
0:38:07 > 0:38:12Said they select a certain kind of profession. Jess, how do you explain
0:38:12 > 0:38:16the paradox we saw there that the gender equal countries, the
0:38:16 > 0:38:23Scandinavian countries, have not got more female scientists?We have to
0:38:23 > 0:38:27take culture of society into account and Scandinavian countries are very
0:38:27 > 0:38:32different to UAE countries and gender equality is one thing that is
0:38:32 > 0:38:38very different. But we have toys for children, how we put clothes on
0:38:38 > 0:38:42children, how we navigate children through the Key stages of their
0:38:42 > 0:38:45decision-making about whether they will become scientists and
0:38:45 > 0:38:56associated with a scientist and that is even the same for grown-ups.Why
0:38:56 > 0:39:02would there be fewer scientists?You have something interesting going on,
0:39:02 > 0:39:07especially at the adult career stage. In countries like the UAE
0:39:07 > 0:39:12they do not value careers in science and engineering as highly as we do
0:39:12 > 0:39:16in the UK and in Scandinavia. We have this idea that to succeed in
0:39:16 > 0:39:21science and engineering you have to be brilliant, a complete genius, you
0:39:21 > 0:39:25have to do all these amazing things and be an isolated, theoretical
0:39:25 > 0:39:31physicist. What people and parents and teachers do not realise is there
0:39:31 > 0:39:36a whole bunch of average scientists and engineers out there having a
0:39:36 > 0:39:40great time and doing what they love as a job. In countries where they
0:39:40 > 0:39:45recognise that they have more gender balance within those subjects and
0:39:45 > 0:39:52they pay them less. So we do not really celebrate doctors here is
0:39:52 > 0:40:00much any more, medical doctors, and there is a gender imbalance.Do you
0:40:00 > 0:40:06explain that women choose not to do coding or do you explain it as women
0:40:06 > 0:40:10have less aptitude?It is a mixture of both. Let me say, there will
0:40:10 > 0:40:15always be women who could be fantastic at coding but I think it
0:40:15 > 0:40:21is partly that they are less likely to choose coding and maybe because
0:40:21 > 0:40:28they are less likely to have aptitude. I really do not want to
0:40:28 > 0:40:33cite the statistic that for example if you look at it, I will do because
0:40:33 > 0:40:38it is relevant, if you look at the intelligence distribution, men and
0:40:38 > 0:40:47women have equal... Be careful. We are equally intelligent but if you
0:40:47 > 0:40:51look at the very top 5% of the most intelligent people they will tend to
0:40:51 > 0:40:57be slightly more males. If you look at lowest intelligence there were
0:40:57 > 0:41:03also be more males. I think there are possible differences in aptitude
0:41:03 > 0:41:08but that should not be in the wake of this. We can always overcome
0:41:08 > 0:41:13them. An interesting thing is if you acknowledge differences, you can
0:41:13 > 0:41:16start to overcome them if that's what you think we should be doing.
0:41:16 > 0:41:22That is what I would question.We need to leave it there. That is all
0:41:22 > 0:41:26we have time for tonight. It will be Kirsty tomorrow. From all of us now,
0:41:26 > 0:41:31good night.