0:00:10 > 0:00:18I want to be straight with people. Life is going to be different. We
0:00:18 > 0:00:25all need to face up to some hard facts. We are leaving the single
0:00:25 > 0:00:32market.Oh my god, oh my god, oh my God! No!Some of these ideas depend
0:00:32 > 0:00:35on technology. Robust systems to ensure trust and confidence as well
0:00:35 > 0:00:41as goodwill. As frictionless a border as possible. If this is
0:00:41 > 0:00:48cherry picking, then every trade arrangement is cherry picking.Are
0:00:48 > 0:00:52we there yet? Is a seeking a new path through the Brexit blizzard. We
0:00:52 > 0:00:58dedicate to Mike's programme to asking if she is on the right track.
0:00:59 > 0:01:00Good evening.
0:01:00 > 0:01:01A few hard facts.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03A bit of soft fudge.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05And a warning to everyone they would have to compromise.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08Theresa May was speaking today to her own sceptics
0:01:08 > 0:01:10as much as she was speaking to the naysayers of Europe.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14If everyone or no-one ends up happy, then perhaps her job is done.
0:01:14 > 0:01:17The tone today was markedly different from a year ago.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19Then, she promised us the same benefits in terms
0:01:19 > 0:01:22of free access to trade.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Today, she warned starkly that life after the single
0:01:24 > 0:01:27market would be different.
0:01:27 > 0:01:32Less sunlit upland, more hard graft.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35The cake has not so much been eaten, as ground up into crumbs.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38And now we're just trying to squeeze them back together into something
0:01:38 > 0:01:40that resembles an offering.
0:01:40 > 0:01:41As for the Ireland question, Theresa May suggested
0:01:41 > 0:01:43the border would be as frictionless as possible.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45We'll explore what that means later.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47The PM offered herself today as a pragmatist putting
0:01:47 > 0:01:48options on the table.
0:01:48 > 0:01:49Will Europe's negotiators bite?
0:01:49 > 0:01:57Here's our political editor, Nick Watt.
0:02:01 > 0:02:09August, thoughtful, though at times perhaps a little intimidating.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11Peering down at Theresa May were grand figures from the ancient
0:02:11 > 0:02:16world, a reminder if one were needed that the stakes are high. Today,
0:02:16 > 0:02:22Theresa May set out her vision for the UK's future relationship with
0:02:22 > 0:02:26the EU at the Mansion house in the City of London. Criticised for
0:02:26 > 0:02:31indulging Brexit supporters, the Prime Minister issued a warning that
0:02:31 > 0:02:36they may not be entirely happy.I want to be straight with people
0:02:36 > 0:02:41because the reality is that we all need to face up to some hard facts.
0:02:41 > 0:02:52We are leaving the single market. Life is going to be different.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54Life is going to be different. In certain ways our access to each
0:02:54 > 0:02:57other's markets will be less than it is now. How could the EU structure
0:02:57 > 0:02:59of rights and obligations be sustained if the UK or any country
0:02:59 > 0:03:01were allowed to enjoy all the benefits without all of the
0:03:01 > 0:03:08obligations?APPLAUSE So a warm reception for Theresa May
0:03:08 > 0:03:15from the city
0:03:15 > 0:03:18from the city elite who just sat through a speech which did mark a
0:03:18 > 0:03:20marked change in tone from the Prime Minister. Four months she's tiptoed
0:03:20 > 0:03:23around Brexit supporters are gently suggesting there will be challenges
0:03:23 > 0:03:33they'll need to accept over Brexit. But today she set out what she
0:03:33 > 0:03:35described as a series of hard facts they will have to accept as she
0:03:35 > 0:03:38negotiates Britain's exit from the EU. Those hard facts about Brexit
0:03:38 > 0:03:41are... European law will still have an effect in the UK. Leaving the
0:03:41 > 0:03:45single market will have an impact on the economy. No take it or leave it
0:03:45 > 0:03:52approach on the Irish border. And making binding commitments to remain
0:03:52 > 0:03:57in step with the EU in some areas. David Davis Kumar you going to have
0:03:57 > 0:04:02to use all your renowned skills as a diplomat to sell these hard facts to
0:04:02 > 0:04:07your fellow Brexiteers?I don't think so. The simple fact is, go ask
0:04:07 > 0:04:12Boris, ask the other Brexiteers the Cabinet if you like. What the centre
0:04:12 > 0:04:17of this is is parliament will always have a say. Today the rules come
0:04:17 > 0:04:22down
0:04:23 > 0:04:24down through the European Parliament, doesn't really have a
0:04:24 > 0:04:27proper site. This time I'll have a say, and they will exercise that say
0:04:27 > 0:04:30in the knowledge and the consequent is one way or another. Will it give
0:04:30 > 0:04:35us access or not.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42us access or not. That is what every country will do, that's what will
0:04:42 > 0:04:44deliver the best outcome for Britain in the long run.Lest any Brexit
0:04:44 > 0:04:46support of year-to-date marks betrayal, the Prime Minister warned
0:04:46 > 0:04:50the EU that it, too, needs to hard facts. Her fundamental vision for
0:04:50 > 0:04:55Brexit remains unchanged. After the single market and Customs union. No
0:04:55 > 0:04:57direct save for the European Court of Justice over the UK. These are
0:04:57 > 0:05:00balanced by a call for the UK to forge the deepest possible
0:05:00 > 0:05:03partnership with the EU, possibly including associate membership of
0:05:03 > 0:05:10some of its regulatory bodies. Brexit supporters gave the speech a
0:05:10 > 0:05:14guarded welcome. Anne-Marie Trevelyan, if you were Prime
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Minister is this the speech he would have given?It was a very aromatic
0:05:17 > 0:05:22speech. I'm not try would have given it, I'm not in that position, I had
0:05:22 > 0:05:25to plough through these incredibly complex sort of departmental
0:05:25 > 0:05:29de-radicalise to see where we sit and what it looks like. It was a
0:05:29 > 0:05:33very pragmatic speech talking to our European partners.Remain supporters
0:05:33 > 0:05:38were unimpressed.What strikes me as we are almost two for years on from
0:05:38 > 0:05:41the European referendum on the Prime Minister is still trying to hammer
0:05:41 > 0:05:44out the details about what leaving the European Union means. What
0:05:44 > 0:05:48struck me today was the focus wasn't on negotiations with the commission,
0:05:48 > 0:05:53wasn't with getting the best deal or protecting public services, it was
0:05:53 > 0:05:56trying to hold that fragile coalition together in the
0:05:56 > 0:06:05Conservative Party, which is being led around by the hard right.
0:06:05 > 0:06:12Sparse, that has been the EU complaint until now, about Britain's
0:06:12 > 0:06:14vision for its future relationship with Brussels. Today, Theresa May
0:06:14 > 0:06:15fill that space.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20Well, we did ask the government for a minister to evangelise
0:06:20 > 0:06:22for Theresa May's speech, but nobody was available.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25Brussels was rather more forthcoming - Vice President of the European
0:06:25 > 0:06:29Parliament Mairead Macguinnes joins me now.
0:06:29 > 0:06:33Thanks very much for your time this evening, Mairead Macguinnes. This
0:06:33 > 0:06:37was quite conciliatory, did you find it a reasonable pitch that you could
0:06:37 > 0:06:47work with?Well I think I'm glad the speech was made.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54speech was made. It's a lengthy speech that needs to be studied but
0:06:54 > 0:06:57it had many audiences and I think that is perhaps the most interesting
0:06:57 > 0:07:00point of this. Much of it I think towards the Conservative Party. I'm
0:07:00 > 0:07:02glad there is some reality dawning the Brexiteers and indeed within the
0:07:02 > 0:07:06Cabinet. As to what leaving the single market and Customs union
0:07:06 > 0:07:08actually means. I think it needs further analysis but on balance I'm
0:07:08 > 0:07:11happy the speech is made. There are many areas I remain very concerned
0:07:11 > 0:07:17about. I do worry that the United Kingdom wants to jump ahead of
0:07:17 > 0:07:20further negotiations of where they are at. Of course we need to know
0:07:20 > 0:07:24what framework of relationship we will have, but I'm also concerned we
0:07:24 > 0:07:31haven't agreed a withdrawal text at this stage. Nor a transition period.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35We now have this speech. I've always been minded to say that while
0:07:35 > 0:07:39speeches are important particularly in terms of the political climate in
0:07:39 > 0:07:42the United Kingdom, they are not negotiating documents. They don't
0:07:42 > 0:07:49match what we have at EU level. We will need a document.I want to get
0:07:49 > 0:07:52out of the specifics of the speech, she talked in detail about the
0:07:52 > 0:07:56Northern Ireland border, wanting to make it as frictionless as possible
0:07:56 > 0:08:03with technology and goodwill. Does it ring the right chord for you?
0:08:03 > 0:08:07Well I don't see much strange really. I do welcome the
0:08:07 > 0:08:09acknowledgement there will be no hard border, I think that was very
0:08:09 > 0:08:16important. I regret it's necessary that this has to be said but I would
0:08:16 > 0:08:19add concerned this is not just a transactional issue on the border.
0:08:19 > 0:08:25We're not dealing with a normal border if you like, this is a border
0:08:25 > 0:08:30that has history and geography and politics behind it. There is a peace
0:08:30 > 0:08:34agreement that is international. I would be concerned about the idea we
0:08:34 > 0:08:42can have small firms, trade as they are today... That misses the point
0:08:42 > 0:08:46why we in the Republic of Ireland, this is shared by our EU partners,
0:08:46 > 0:08:49are so concerned there will not be a difference to the relationship we
0:08:49 > 0:08:55have today.What is wrong with it?I would like Theresa May to think
0:08:55 > 0:08:59little more deeply, to think more deeply about the consequences. Our
0:08:59 > 0:09:04shared membership of the European Union has facilitated a situation
0:09:04 > 0:09:08where even the nationalist community can accept they are part of the
0:09:08 > 0:09:12United Kingdom because they're free, we are all within the same space,
0:09:12 > 0:09:18single market Customs union. Even with what is in the speech today,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21for somebody like me who travels through Northern Ireland all the
0:09:21 > 0:09:23time, there could be an impact because objects that may happen
0:09:23 > 0:09:29along the way. I'm trying to move beyond the idea this is just an
0:09:29 > 0:09:35infrastructure or lack of issue. It's about the psychological issue.
0:09:35 > 0:09:40Let me take you on. We don't have long. Some of the other things she
0:09:40 > 0:09:44was talking about, the associate membership. Some of the EU agencies.
0:09:44 > 0:09:50Is it something the European Parliament, that the EU, would
0:09:50 > 0:09:54welcome?I think that is being pushed by industry in the United
0:09:54 > 0:09:59Kingdom and I'm very glad to see for the first time very concrete
0:09:59 > 0:10:03realities again dawning in the United Kingdom, that leading
0:10:03 > 0:10:07regulatory agencies will impact on business in the United Kingdom and
0:10:07 > 0:10:11patients. While there are people like Norway part of many of our
0:10:11 > 0:10:18agencies and our value -- are valued. If the United Kingdom wants
0:10:18 > 0:10:22that there is a price to be paid and the Prime Minister has acknowledged
0:10:22 > 0:10:25that. And value to be gained from that as well. I would hope on those
0:10:25 > 0:10:30issues we could make progress but it would be part of an overall package.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34And remember that the red lines are still very heavily red, leaving the
0:10:34 > 0:10:37single market and Customs union. There is then a sense, adding laid
0:10:37 > 0:10:42out those red lines, of saying, on the other hand we like what the EU
0:10:42 > 0:10:46has created in a whole range of issues. As I read this its a bit
0:10:46 > 0:10:49like saying, look, we want to be part of the European Union but don't
0:10:49 > 0:10:54want to be called part of the European Union.On that note we'll
0:10:54 > 0:10:57leave it.Let's hope it move things forward and if it does I welcome
0:10:57 > 0:11:01that.Thank you, appreciate your time, sorry to squeeze you.
0:11:01 > 0:11:02Joining me now, cmmitted Conservative Brexiteer,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05John Redwood.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08It feels like we're saying we want to be part of the EU but don't want
0:11:08 > 0:11:12to call it the EU, it's everything but in name.I don't think she is
0:11:12 > 0:11:15understood the speech and I think the speech was primarily aimed at
0:11:15 > 0:11:20the European Union Prime Minister rightly ended by saying, let's get
0:11:20 > 0:11:23on with it, a message to the European Union. One of the problems
0:11:23 > 0:11:28is this ridiculous idea that you have to negotiate something called a
0:11:28 > 0:11:33withdrawal agreement first. Before you can go on to discuss your future
0:11:33 > 0:11:37partnership.Let me bring you onto the vision in this speech. This was
0:11:37 > 0:11:40a very different vision, to become associate member of agencies, to
0:11:40 > 0:11:46carry on paying into those parts that wants to belong. Having to have
0:11:46 > 0:11:53a relationship with the ECJ. Does that work for you?I don't think
0:11:53 > 0:11:58it's new at all, it was there in the Lancaster house speech when the
0:11:58 > 0:12:01original ideas Brexiteers had.Not the idea we be associated with all
0:12:01 > 0:12:05the different bodies of agencies, medicine, chemistry, aviation.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09During the referendum campaign we often said something like Erasmus,
0:12:09 > 0:12:13which is a programme for students that goes beyond the EU anyway, is
0:12:13 > 0:12:18the kind of thing which, if they were sensible terms for doing it,
0:12:18 > 0:12:22why wouldn't we carry on?Regulatory agency, a sort of exchange
0:12:22 > 0:12:26programme. I'm asking whether you find that contradictory to what you
0:12:26 > 0:12:31felt you were getting.Not at all. It would have to be very clear that
0:12:31 > 0:12:36it doesn't put us under the control of the EU and if there is any
0:12:36 > 0:12:38payment, it's a proportionate payment to the cost, it would save
0:12:38 > 0:12:42us money setting up our own body because the other option is to set
0:12:42 > 0:12:45up our own body to do exactly the same thing. We would need to
0:12:45 > 0:12:53evaluate one against the other. Very third order issue. You're trying to
0:12:53 > 0:12:57make problems where there aren't problems. The problem the EU now has
0:12:57 > 0:13:01its every time the UK Government puts forward something decent, often
0:13:01 > 0:13:09very generous, they throw it back in our face. They have no serious
0:13:09 > 0:13:14interest, it seems, in negotiating free trade agreement or a
0:13:14 > 0:13:16wide-ranging economic partnership. The British people are getting
0:13:16 > 0:13:21mighty fed up with this. Why would we want to be at all generous over
0:13:21 > 0:13:23their so-called withdrawal agreement if there is absolutely nothing
0:13:23 > 0:13:27forthcoming. I hope for the sake of the country on the Prime Minister
0:13:27 > 0:13:31they read the speech again, realise it was asking them to engage
0:13:31 > 0:13:33seriously now to have a comprehensive agreement.They think
0:13:33 > 0:13:37she's got her head in the sand. There is no way the British
0:13:37 > 0:13:39Parliament people will sign up to their withdrawal agreement, that
0:13:39 > 0:13:43dreadful draft they sent us, without there being something really good on
0:13:43 > 0:13:47the end of it.You say there is no way, you think there is still a no
0:13:47 > 0:13:51Deal option on the table. A lot of people thought she was moving
0:13:51 > 0:13:54towards compromise, she was saying, it's going to be tough. It wasn't
0:13:54 > 0:13:59the speech she made a year ago in March when she said, we'll have that
0:13:59 > 0:14:05continued...The EU is moving very strongly to no Deal. As you just
0:14:05 > 0:14:09heard it's very representative of EU responses, everything the Prime
0:14:09 > 0:14:14Minister has generously put forward his two little or they don't agree.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18You think no Deal is most likely.If they change their attitude of course
0:14:18 > 0:14:23we end up with no Deal.You wouldn't mind that.I've always thought no
0:14:23 > 0:14:26Deal gives me four of the five things as a Brexiteer I want, we
0:14:26 > 0:14:30don't pay them any money, we can spend it all on our priorities, we
0:14:30 > 0:14:35can have our own trade policy and do our own trade deals.Is she wasting
0:14:35 > 0:14:40her time?Do you not want to hear all the advantages?I understand...
0:14:40 > 0:14:49We can make our own laws and control our own borders.I've heard the
0:14:49 > 0:14:52argument before. Would we like free trade agreement? Yes, it might be in
0:14:52 > 0:14:55their interest as well. A deal that is better than no Deal is of course
0:14:55 > 0:14:57possible. But if the EU is not prepared at any point to say, yes,
0:14:57 > 0:15:00we want a free trade deal, then these talks are going to be very
0:15:00 > 0:15:03difficult. Do you think Theresa May's red lights have gone now?
0:15:03 > 0:15:08Which talks about the need for compromise and hard facts and
0:15:08 > 0:15:10choices, do you think those red lines have been eroded now and it's
0:15:10 > 0:15:15up to the EU to start moving towards us?I think the Prime Minister has
0:15:15 > 0:15:20been extremely friendly and generous and positive towards the EU and she
0:15:20 > 0:15:22wants now some response from the country, the country needs a
0:15:22 > 0:15:28response from them. Otherwise there won't be a deal. I don't think she
0:15:28 > 0:15:31has eroded the key red lines, she's made very clear, as the EU used to
0:15:31 > 0:15:35be very clear, you can't stay in the customs union and single market if
0:15:35 > 0:15:39you are leaving the EU. She's made it very clear we want our own
0:15:39 > 0:15:43independent trade policy which you can't have in the or a customs
0:15:43 > 0:15:47union. I don't think the customs union exists. All the things Mr
0:15:47 > 0:15:50Corbyn wants are clearly non-negotiable and the EU will say
0:15:50 > 0:15:54no.John Redwood thank you very much indeed for coming in.
0:15:54 > 0:15:57Of course the speech Theresa May made this afternoon had an eye
0:15:57 > 0:15:59on her European audience, reminding those we're leaving
0:15:59 > 0:16:04that its also in Europe's best interest to keep relations as smooth
0:16:04 > 0:16:05and as close as possible.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07Is that how Europe sees it?
0:16:07 > 0:16:09The first tweeted responses from EU negotiators suggested not -
0:16:09 > 0:16:11and as Mark Urban explains, the response is unlikely
0:16:11 > 0:16:19to be unified.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22I am afraid that the UK position today is based on pure illusion.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24It looks like the cake fillers of a still life.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27The warning was clear enough - don't try to cherry pick.
0:16:27 > 0:16:34Yet that is exactly what Theresa May did today.
0:16:34 > 0:16:35Why?
0:16:35 > 0:16:37Because many in Whitehall don't quite believe the EU's rhetoric,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40thinking it's a negotiating stance, and that some countries want to put
0:16:40 > 0:16:41business ahead of dogma.
0:16:41 > 0:16:49Those closest have the most integrated economies with the UK,
0:16:50 > 0:16:52but for the moment, France and Ireland in particular,
0:16:52 > 0:16:54are taking a tough line on Brexit issues.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56Further afield, the V4 or Visegrad Group -
0:16:56 > 0:16:59Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia - are critical
0:16:59 > 0:17:02of the Commission and favour a softer line on Brexit.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04Some of the Scandinavians also favour a conciliatory approach,
0:17:04 > 0:17:06but who to lead this block of moderates when Germany
0:17:06 > 0:17:14in particular argues that the EU's rules must be defended vigorously?
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Quite a lot of member states to a greater or lesser extent
0:17:23 > 0:17:25would like a broader relationship, a deeper relationship involving
0:17:25 > 0:17:27more economic activity, more trade investment between the EU
0:17:27 > 0:17:28and the UK.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31However the British should not in my view get too excited
0:17:31 > 0:17:33about these nuances around the 27, because although a lot
0:17:33 > 0:17:36of Governments as I said would like a broader relationship
0:17:36 > 0:17:38than that which Barnier seems to be pushing for,
0:17:38 > 0:17:40the French and Germans and the Commission are very
0:17:40 > 0:17:48powerful, very dominant.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51So what are the chances of a champion emerging,
0:17:51 > 0:17:53to challenge the Germans, in the interests of keeping
0:17:53 > 0:17:54trade with the UK sweet?
0:17:54 > 0:17:55Probably quite slim.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57Why indeed should any country want to organise others
0:17:57 > 0:18:05in the UK's interests?
0:18:05 > 0:18:08But if there is one possible pragmatist in chief, it's
0:18:08 > 0:18:10Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, who has today questioned
0:18:10 > 0:18:16the federalist ambitions of some in Europe.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19The European Union is not many my view an unstoppable train,
0:18:19 > 0:18:20speeding towards federalism.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22Brexit shows that EU is not an irreversible certainty.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24In many member states, political parties at the centre,
0:18:24 > 0:18:26the centre-left, the centre-right, parties with a long-standing
0:18:26 > 0:18:34European tradition are under pressure.
0:18:38 > 0:18:40The European Commission tonight praised Theresa May for at least
0:18:40 > 0:18:43making clear she wanted a free trade agreement, rather than a version
0:18:43 > 0:18:44of single market membership.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47Now, the work will begin on seeing just how ambitious they can be
0:18:47 > 0:18:55about that trade deal.
0:18:57 > 0:19:00With me in the studio the finest Brexit panel you can imagine -
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Iain Dale, Nina Schick, Paul Mason and Suzanne Evans -
0:19:02 > 0:19:04to chew over the stuff we haven't yet tackled.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06Brexit, Remainers Right and Left.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09Very nice of you to come to over and chew up the stuff we haven't
0:19:09 > 0:19:15tackled. I will give the first panelist the
0:19:15 > 0:19:20response, who tells me tonight, they do not feel compromised by what has
0:19:20 > 0:19:26been offered today?I don't feel compromised by it.Took a pause, but
0:19:26 > 0:19:31go on.I only paused because when I watched the speech, I am going to be
0:19:31 > 0:19:36honest I found it difficult to follow. It was very come expression,
0:19:36 > 0:19:40every detailed, lots more than any of her other speeches and it's a
0:19:40 > 0:19:44speech you have to read a couple of times before you get it. And I think
0:19:44 > 0:19:52when you have, the Irish Government, Barnier, Rees-Mogg and Chuka Umunna
0:19:52 > 0:19:55finding something positive, she has probably done something right.You
0:19:55 > 0:19:59fit yourself in the frame of mind that says yes she has ticked the
0:19:59 > 0:20:08right boxes?I am not a dogma test. I have believed in any negotiation
0:20:08 > 0:20:13there has to be cop promises, today she has said yes, up to now it has
0:20:13 > 0:20:17been we will be able to get everything we want. It will be the
0:20:17 > 0:20:21same.Are you there NinaThis is the most interesting thing, is that
0:20:21 > 0:20:25reality is hitting the Government in the face really hard, if you look at
0:20:25 > 0:20:29Theresa May's first speech at Conservative Party Conference in
0:20:29 > 0:20:332016, the famous citizens of nowhere speech then Lancaster House and
0:20:33 > 0:20:38Florence, when she asked for a transition at Lancaster House she
0:20:38 > 0:20:41said the UK would be leaving the customs union and the single market.
0:20:41 > 0:20:46Today she admitted for the first time, this is something I have been
0:20:46 > 0:20:50saying since 2016, there have to be trade off, there have to be
0:20:50 > 0:20:54compromise, the magical dream...You were glad she said that?Yes, the EU
0:20:54 > 0:20:58will welcome that, nonetheless, there are still problems, the most
0:20:58 > 0:21:01fundamental issue in my view is that the issue of the Irish border has
0:21:01 > 0:21:05not been resome evidence. We have seen the massive kick back in this
0:21:05 > 0:21:09country to the draft withdrawal agreement. That the EU laid out,
0:21:09 > 0:21:12because they suggested that the fall back option for Northern Ireland,
0:21:12 > 0:21:16which has to be under pinned in law, because the EU is an international
0:21:16 > 0:21:20treaty organisation, under pinned by a rule book, would be that Northern
0:21:20 > 0:21:22Ireland remains in the customs union or the single market. Of course the
0:21:22 > 0:21:26UK said that is not possible, I completely understand why, Theresa
0:21:26 > 0:21:30May said that, but what is the solution? So this customs
0:21:30 > 0:21:34partnership that she put today, what does that mean? We don't have enough
0:21:34 > 0:21:39detail on that.I want to spend time on the Irish board e before we do
0:21:39 > 0:21:43that, Suzanne, do you hear a woman or a leader who has had to
0:21:43 > 0:21:47compromise, get rid of her red line, is it the Brexit you want?Some of
0:21:47 > 0:21:51it is. We had a clear commitment to leaving the single market, we had a
0:21:51 > 0:21:56clear commitment to leaving the customs union and a customs union in
0:21:56 > 0:22:02a snub to Jeremy Corbyn rightly, we also heard strong commentments on an
0:22:02 > 0:22:05end to free. Only do of movement, other thing she didn't lay down
0:22:05 > 0:22:08strongly enough, the idea we could walk away with no deal, that seems
0:22:08 > 0:22:14to be off the table, she talked strongly about the European Court of
0:22:14 > 0:22:18Justice, in a way that was almost treating it like a grandfather,
0:22:18 > 0:22:22saying we needed to listen to it, we would take advice from it. That is
0:22:22 > 0:22:24not the position we wanted eitherment I am particularly worried
0:22:24 > 0:22:28about what she said about fishing, because for us in Ukip, fishing was
0:22:28 > 0:22:32one of the red lines, fishing industry is the one that has been
0:22:32 > 0:22:35absolutely destroyed perhaps more than any other by our membership of
0:22:35 > 0:22:39the European Union, and to hear her talk today about our shared stocks,
0:22:39 > 0:22:43was a massive indication, I think she is going to use perhaps fishing
0:22:43 > 0:22:46as a bargaining chip with the European Union so our fishermen will
0:22:46 > 0:22:50not get the rights they would have under international law which would
0:22:50 > 0:22:56be a disgrace, really.Paul?Theresa May just effectively applied for
0:22:56 > 0:23:01off-peak membership of the European jib, so she was to pay for the
0:23:01 > 0:23:07treadmill and the sort of skipping rope but not the weights and the
0:23:07 > 0:23:10spinning class, and remains, they are glam she has made an application
0:23:10 > 0:23:15-- glad, and we will find out what they think about it. John Redwood is
0:23:15 > 0:23:19De Leeuwed, to be honest, I wish he was still sitting here because the
0:23:19 > 0:23:28point I I would make to hick him, is that the fantasy of hard Brexit
0:23:28 > 0:23:31evaporated, number one, forget, an independent fishing industry, we
0:23:31 > 0:23:34will give Europe full access.We should not.That is what she has
0:23:34 > 0:23:38offered. And to be honest, he talks about the will of the people and
0:23:38 > 0:23:43what the British people will put up, with there is no majority in the UK
0:23:43 > 0:23:47Parliament for a customs union, and the moment they put that vote to a
0:23:47 > 0:23:53vote, I think we will find out she has actually negotiating from a weak
0:23:53 > 0:23:58and non-representative position.You are cheering that are you?I think
0:23:58 > 0:24:03we should do a job for the viewer to explain what has happened before we
0:24:03 > 0:24:08unleash our own prejudice on it. Yes, I am against a hard Brexit, I
0:24:08 > 0:24:12want the softest possibly Brexit. I want customs union, I am glad core
0:24:12 > 0:24:16Bishop has gone in the direction of trying to negotiate closeness to the
0:24:16 > 0:24:21single market. The other thing that evaporated the David Davis's promise
0:24:21 > 0:24:26that we would get the exact same trade deals. That has been shown to
0:24:26 > 0:24:33be a fantasy. That is very powerful people like me.What would you say
0:24:33 > 0:24:37that? This idea that everything that was promised, the trade benefits
0:24:37 > 0:24:42would be the same, the up land were going to be there,They will be
0:24:42 > 0:24:48there. To say the idea of a hard Brexit, which I think is actually
0:24:48 > 0:24:51Brexit has evaporated is ridiculous, we are going to leave the single
0:24:51 > 0:24:55market and the customs union, those were war the soft Brexiteers used to
0:24:55 > 0:25:00describe as a hard Brexit but no longer do. I think it is a great
0:25:00 > 0:25:04thing that we now have another divide in British politic, between
0:25:04 > 0:25:06the Conservative Party and the Labour Party and we heard from
0:25:06 > 0:25:09Jeremy Corbyn on Monday, and he outlined very clearly what he wans
0:25:09 > 0:25:13to do but he knows he can't deliver it because the EU will never accept
0:25:13 > 0:25:17Britain at the negotiating table for new trade deals if we are still in a
0:25:17 > 0:25:23customs union.Are you closer to the Corbyn view?No, absolutely not. It
0:25:23 > 0:25:27is a fudge, it is completely unachievable.Why is it any
0:25:27 > 0:25:34different? Why is this union different to an arrangement or...
0:25:34 > 0:25:36Theresa May spelled out clearly in her speech why Jeremy Corbyn's
0:25:36 > 0:25:41version of a customs union won't work. I think the problem that we
0:25:41 > 0:25:44have got, is that Theresa May is still in a sense negotiating from a
0:25:44 > 0:25:53point of weakness, she is still listening to too closely to her
0:25:53 > 0:25:55advisers, who are really don't want to come out of the European Union at
0:25:55 > 0:26:00all. Expert remain aers, and she is not actually telling the EU strongly
0:26:00 > 0:26:04enough what we want. The end of her speech today she started to sound
0:26:04 > 0:26:08like she was a woman who believed in Britain, who believed in the Brexit
0:26:08 > 0:26:14cause...It kind of backtracked on that they agreed at Chequers were
0:26:14 > 0:26:19the politicians said we would have divergence and all she talked about
0:26:19 > 0:26:22was more alignment. The other point is I think there is a mood in the
0:26:22 > 0:26:26country for people to just get on with this and get it over with, and
0:26:26 > 0:26:31I think I had a lot of people on my phone in today saying look, give the
0:26:31 > 0:26:35woman a chance, we like the speech. I might have voted remain but give
0:26:35 > 0:26:41her a chance.ment so we are talking as if it is up to us now, it is down
0:26:41 > 0:26:45to European Europe and what the divided voices say.We are still a
0:26:45 > 0:26:48long away away from the future trading relationship. We first of
0:26:48 > 0:26:52all have to get that draft withdrawal text agreed and the UK by
0:26:52 > 0:26:56the way despite all the anger at the EU's draft agreement, hasn't put
0:26:56 > 0:27:00forward their own. Then we have the issue of the transition, know that
0:27:00 > 0:27:04Theresa May has sold this as an implementation phase, but that is of
0:27:04 > 0:27:10course not the case, because the idea by March 2019 that you can have
0:27:10 > 0:27:15an TFA ready to go is De Leeuwed. The next question is, can hard
0:27:15 > 0:27:19Brexiteers accept, and what I found interesting, is that given that what
0:27:19 > 0:27:23was promised and what Theresa May said today, everyone seems to think
0:27:23 > 0:27:27there were good parts in that, it is not what was promised. Jurisdiction
0:27:27 > 0:27:31of the ECJ or whether or not direct, and the same will be the case for
0:27:31 > 0:27:37transition.My point now, is that if there is at least some overlap
0:27:37 > 0:27:41between what people broadly want, does the EU hear it in that way? You
0:27:41 > 0:27:46have heard from Barnier, we have heard from people saying she has her
0:27:46 > 0:27:49head in the stand, people saying it is vague.They are going to say
0:27:49 > 0:27:55that. They are the two most Europhile politicians in Europe.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58They are because they are fully bought into the project. What I
0:27:58 > 0:28:03would say federalism or not, the centre in Europe knows it is in
0:28:03 > 0:28:07trouble. What this, I read this as a gamble by the British Foreign
0:28:07 > 0:28:10Office, I see the Foreign Office hands on this as well as Olly rob
0:28:10 > 0:28:15Bishops because they have been doing a lot of bilateral talking to
0:28:15 > 0:28:20European capital, they see, the gamble is, the European project is
0:28:20 > 0:28:26in so much trouble they will allow what Britain has asked for, which is
0:28:26 > 0:28:29a specific despoke free trade deal and go round the Commission
0:28:29 > 0:28:34position, which is to offer us Canada or Norway. I think the
0:28:34 > 0:28:39problem is, we perhaps in the vote Leave campaign underestimated the
0:28:39 > 0:28:41ability of Brexit and the Civil Service, the Government and Civil
0:28:41 > 0:28:45Service to deliver the Brexit that the people voted for. And I think
0:28:45 > 0:28:48what will ultimately come out of this today, I think the EU will see
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Theresa May as another bit of a push over and they will push back harder.
0:28:52 > 0:28:56Thank you all very much.
0:28:56 > 0:28:57Thank you all very much.
0:28:57 > 0:28:59Eskimos, they say, have 50 words for snow.
0:28:59 > 0:29:01The Inuits of Canada's Nunuvik region actually do have 53.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03The Sami people of Russia have 180.
0:29:03 > 0:29:06The Inupiaks of Alaska do justice to ice with another 70 of their own.
0:29:06 > 0:29:08It seems only right, since we have embraced -
0:29:08 > 0:29:11albeit temporarily - the beast from the east -
0:29:11 > 0:29:13to come up with one of our own.
0:29:13 > 0:29:14The stuff that's covering Britain right now -
0:29:14 > 0:29:17making many lives a misery - is, experts tell us,
0:29:17 > 0:29:18known as Champagne Powder.
0:29:18 > 0:29:20It's too refined to build a snowman.
0:29:20 > 0:29:21It doesn't mould easily into snowballs.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25At the end of a week of the white stuff we sent John Sweeney out
0:29:25 > 0:29:29to get the scientific low down on why.
0:29:29 > 0:29:36Government and Civil Service
0:29:36 > 0:29:42Something has gone horribly wrong with the great British snow man. The
0:29:42 > 0:29:49snowmageddon has produced no the fat dough boys of yesteryear by a series
0:29:49 > 0:29:54of weird shrunken mutants. What do these snowball engineers
0:29:54 > 0:30:00make of it on Primrose Hill? What is the problem with the snow?It's too
0:30:00 > 0:30:11soft.Doesn't stick.No.It is a work of art this.
0:30:11 > 0:30:17Time to call in an expert.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20Time to call in an expert. This woman is a Professor of
0:30:20 > 0:30:23snowflakology. There is a problem with our snow man, what is the
0:30:23 > 0:30:27problem?Well, first thing we don't want to discriminate because our
0:30:27 > 0:30:31snow man is tiny, but there is a bit of a damage challenge in making a
0:30:31 > 0:30:35bigger snow man using this kind of snow, the reason being that the snow
0:30:35 > 0:30:39we have add the moment is very dry. And it is the liquid part that makes
0:30:39 > 0:30:43snow stick together. So if we are missing that, the snow just can't
0:30:43 > 0:30:47pack together very well, so it has been incredibly cold because it is
0:30:47 > 0:30:52coming from the east. It hit cyberian temperatures, I don't know
0:30:52 > 0:30:57if you have noticed six sided snowflakes we are getting, they are
0:30:57 > 0:31:04tiny, because of the fact it has been so cold, the water vapour has
0:31:04 > 0:31:09frozen to make this small crystal, very powdery snow.It is the wrong
0:31:09 > 0:31:14kind of snow.It Tees wrong kind of snow.
0:31:14 > 0:31:18The big fat flake at the top is the perfect building block for a good
0:31:18 > 0:31:30snow man. The stuff at the bottom is too dry makes rubbish snowmen.
0:31:30 > 0:31:36Bad for snowmen, but this kind of powdery snow is seriously good for
0:31:36 > 0:31:46St Legers, and skiers too. The science behind the wrong kind of
0:31:46 > 0:31:53snow is so compelling. Other life forms were drawn ircystibly to the
0:31:53 > 0:32:03Newsnight snow man. That just John Sweeney.
0:32:03 > 0:32:05That's all we have time for this evening.