0:00:09 > 0:00:12He was particularly nasty to those he felt were below him.I witnessed
0:00:12 > 0:00:17him sort of explode at people. He was known for having a dreadful
0:00:17 > 0:00:25temper. So he harasses you, he gets a quiet
0:00:25 > 0:00:30word and you have to change jobs? Yes.
0:00:30 > 0:00:39Aggressive, dismissive, rude. And ultimately bullying.
0:00:39 > 0:00:44It ground her down.Basically reached crisis point and she could
0:00:44 > 0:00:47no longer do her job.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50Harassment, bullying and intimidation behind the walls
0:00:50 > 0:00:52of the Palace of Westminster.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Three MPs named in our exclusive report - Newsnight has testimonies
0:00:54 > 0:01:02from the women at the centre.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08Good evening.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10Tonight, we take you inside the House of Commons
0:01:10 > 0:01:12in a tale of bullying, harassment and intimidation.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16Newsnight has spoken to dozens of female workers
0:01:16 > 0:01:19within the palace of Westminster, who are known as the clerks.
0:01:19 > 0:01:24There is a pattern to their testimonies.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26They told us of aggressive and threatening behaviour, of the lack
0:01:26 > 0:01:30of proper redress, of careers terminated or misdirected.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33And then they told us that the very system put in place to address this
0:01:33 > 0:01:36kind of bullying, had in itself failed to deal with it.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38We heard of woman with post traumatic stress disorder.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40She left her job.
0:01:40 > 0:01:41Another quit and left the country.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Even the Speaker of the House himself, John Bercow,
0:01:44 > 0:01:46faces accusations.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48The women's stories are unflinching, and there is some swearing
0:01:48 > 0:01:53in this exclusive report by Chris Cook and Lucinda Day.
0:01:53 > 0:02:01Before we get to it, Chris joins me.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07One of the things that is really struck us as we have spoken to these
0:02:07 > 0:02:12dozens of women is the remarkable sort of unity of the story. Usually
0:02:12 > 0:02:15when you do a thing like this, you will find some people who disagree
0:02:15 > 0:02:20and some who agree. We found a strong consensus there is a serious
0:02:20 > 0:02:27problem in the House of Commons. The culture in part is the reason why
0:02:27 > 0:02:30processes don't seem to operate properly. There is really no
0:02:30 > 0:02:35confidence among women who work for the house of commons that any of the
0:02:35 > 0:02:38proposals being discussed at the moment about reforming the way the
0:02:38 > 0:02:44house works to protect them, will really work. What I hope we will
0:02:44 > 0:02:51show in our film is the reason why they don't have any that confidence.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54The House of Commons is not just a seat of political intrigue or
0:02:54 > 0:02:55tourist destination.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57It is also a workplace.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00But it is a workplace with a particular problem with
0:03:00 > 0:03:02bullying and with sexual harassment.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05We've heard a number of allegations against MPs.
0:03:05 > 0:03:11And not just backbench MPs at the bottom of the pile.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13These accusations run all the way to the top.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16To John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19And the people making these allegations are public
0:03:19 > 0:03:27servants who have dedicated their lives to making our parliament work.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31This group is always there, even in the biggest
0:03:31 > 0:03:33parliamentary moments.
0:03:33 > 0:03:40But you probably never really look at them.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42He was the future once!
0:03:42 > 0:03:46You might have spotted some of them, perhaps
0:03:46 > 0:03:49the people down here who until recently routinely
0:03:49 > 0:03:51wore wigs to sittings.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55Nothing is really impossible if you put your mind to it.
0:03:55 > 0:04:03After all, as I once said, I was the future once!
0:04:04 > 0:04:06Now politicians come and go but this little army of
0:04:06 > 0:04:07public servants, they are always there.
0:04:07 > 0:04:09In the chamber...
0:04:09 > 0:04:10Forgive me.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12Please contribute to this question.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14This is a big piece of information.
0:04:14 > 0:04:19And committees.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21These people work for something known as the House of
0:04:21 > 0:04:22Commons service.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25And they have a range of job titles.
0:04:25 > 0:04:33Clerks, inquiry managers, committee specialists, but
0:04:34 > 0:04:37together, we are going to refer to them by the term by which they are
0:04:37 > 0:04:39known to the rest of Westminster.
0:04:39 > 0:04:40The Clerks.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42These are the people who run committee inquiries and to quietly
0:04:42 > 0:04:44umpire the business of the House.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46Newsnight has heard shocking testimony that women in these roles
0:04:46 > 0:04:50face a particular problem.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Newsnight has spoken to dozens of current and
0:04:53 > 0:04:56former clerks who allege to us that they face
0:04:56 > 0:04:59a real issue with sexual harassment and bullying by MPs.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03Almost all have reasons to request anonymity.
0:05:03 > 0:05:08Usually because they still work in Westminster or Whitehall.
0:05:08 > 0:05:14He sort of manoeuvred me out into the corridor and, um, put
0:05:14 > 0:05:20his arms around me, and um kissed me on the lips, and I couldn't do
0:05:20 > 0:05:27anything about it.
0:05:28 > 0:05:33I could not force him off.
0:05:33 > 0:05:39My arms were against my chest and he was holding me so
0:05:39 > 0:05:45tightly that I couldn't push him away.
0:05:45 > 0:05:50I made a chocolate cake for one of my colleagues's birthday
0:05:50 > 0:05:52and I was just putting the finishing touches
0:05:52 > 0:05:54before without our end of the day little celebration.
0:05:54 > 0:05:56And I was kneeling, putting the rest of
0:05:56 > 0:06:01the icing on the cake, and the MP in question coming
0:06:01 > 0:06:05he came in and laughed and came and stood right
0:06:05 > 0:06:13over me, I remember it being very overbearingly close, and him saying,
0:06:14 > 0:06:17"Right where you belong, on your knees with a face
0:06:17 > 0:06:19full of chocolate."
0:06:19 > 0:06:22The MP exploded on me so aggressively that my colleague stood
0:06:22 > 0:06:25between us to physically shield him from me.
0:06:25 > 0:06:30These cases run from the 1990s to more recent years.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33And in that time the House has changed its
0:06:33 > 0:06:36HR policies several times but there's one we constantly
0:06:36 > 0:06:42keep hearing about.
0:06:42 > 0:06:45Women do not feel that if they complain to the House authority
0:06:45 > 0:06:47and their concerns will be taken seriously.
0:06:47 > 0:06:49In part because the culture of the House emphasises the
0:06:49 > 0:06:51idea that clerks need to be tough.
0:06:51 > 0:06:56From the day you start working in the House of Commons,
0:06:56 > 0:06:58there can be situations where you are required to
0:06:58 > 0:07:06deliver difficult messages.
0:07:07 > 0:07:09In those circumstances, it's seen as very
0:07:09 > 0:07:11important to be robust, and if you have pushback
0:07:11 > 0:07:14from members to be resilient and be able to hold your
0:07:14 > 0:07:19ground, to respond appropriately. And that is entirely appropriate for
0:07:19 > 0:07:27staff, the difficulty is one that extends to one member behaves
0:07:30 > 0:07:32inappropriately towards you, you're still expected to just put up
0:07:32 > 0:07:33with that situation.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36Clerks talk a lot about resilience but it doesn't mean
0:07:36 > 0:07:41in the House of Commons what it means outside.
0:07:41 > 0:07:46It means absorbing behaviour from members of Parliament
0:07:46 > 0:07:49and also senior clerks and not questioning it or not complaining
0:07:49 > 0:07:54about it.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56When you say behaviour, harassment, bullying?
0:07:56 > 0:07:57Yeah.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59They expect you to suck it up and not make a fuss?
0:07:59 > 0:08:01Yeah.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04I think that is deemed to be a trait of a
0:08:04 > 0:08:09successful clerk in the House.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13It's your ability to absorb and be resilient, yeah.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17We found that women working for the Commons often feel
0:08:17 > 0:08:22that they pay the price of complaining about misconduct.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24This former clerk's manager attempted to
0:08:24 > 0:08:26deal with the sexual harassment by the MP that
0:08:26 > 0:08:28she described earlier.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32Having spoken to the MP and some other senior management team
0:08:32 > 0:08:36members, she didn't tell me who, that the best course of action would
0:08:36 > 0:08:44be to move me from that committee.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48So if he harasses you, the solution is he gets a quiet word and
0:08:48 > 0:08:50you have to change jobs. Yes.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52That doesn't seem like a reasonable response to workplace harassment.
0:08:52 > 0:08:53Not at all.
0:08:53 > 0:08:54I didn't want to do.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57I enjoyed what I was doing, I really enjoyed my
0:08:57 > 0:09:00team and despite was was going on I didn't want to move.
0:09:00 > 0:09:01That's something of a theme we found.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04Clerks told us that they fear that if they raise
0:09:04 > 0:09:07complaints about MPs it will be them who is moved not the MP.
0:09:07 > 0:09:12They also fear that complaining just marks
0:09:12 > 0:09:13their cards, as weak, sensitive, or a troublemaker.
0:09:13 > 0:09:16One of the women we have heard from did complain to
0:09:16 > 0:09:19her manager about sexual assault by an MP early in her career in
0:09:19 > 0:09:20the 1990s. Nothing happened.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24She was harassed throughout her time there.
0:09:24 > 0:09:32So here is how she filed by the end of a long career in House.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35There was absolutely no point in me reporting
0:09:35 > 0:09:38anything because I would have been made to feel I wasn't resilient or
0:09:38 > 0:09:40tough enough.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43So one of your friends told us.
0:09:43 > 0:09:46They thought that they had done a bit better than you in the
0:09:46 > 0:09:50House of Commons, even though they thought you were more talented,
0:09:50 > 0:09:54because she had stayed quiet and you have not.
0:09:54 > 0:09:55Do you think that's possible?
0:09:55 > 0:10:03I think that's possible.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06I think I'm not alone as a woman in feeling inferior
0:10:06 > 0:10:08in the workplace.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11And that is something that I have carried with me for quite a
0:10:11 > 0:10:12long time.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15People are still fearful about speaking out because there are
0:10:15 > 0:10:18recent examples where people end up getting moved or leaving the House
0:10:18 > 0:10:19in relation to raising these things.
0:10:19 > 0:10:25Management have told us to report stuff but I think if I raised
0:10:25 > 0:10:26something I'd be moved.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29In all my time here I haven't seen one case go
0:10:29 > 0:10:30against a member.
0:10:30 > 0:10:31CHEERING
0:10:31 > 0:10:32Lets start naming names.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35This is the Tory MP for...
0:10:35 > 0:10:36Mark Pritchard.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39We have heard time and again about his
0:10:39 > 0:10:41reputation among women clerks.
0:10:41 > 0:10:43He was particularly nasty to those he
0:10:43 > 0:10:44felt were below him.
0:10:44 > 0:10:49I witnessed him explode to people, he was known for
0:10:49 > 0:10:56having a dreadful temper.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58The people in the room who were administering
0:10:58 > 0:11:02to the needs of the committee were all female.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05And we got called a useless gaggle of girls or something
0:11:05 > 0:11:10along those lines, I wish I remember the exact phrase.
0:11:10 > 0:11:17His attitude was vile, I remember him once giving a
0:11:17 > 0:11:20female clerk a dressing down in front of everyone, the way he spoke
0:11:20 > 0:11:21was threatening and aggressive.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24I have seen him with my own eyes screaming at people for
0:11:24 > 0:11:25nothing, really.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28He went mad at me, it got very personal, he said something
0:11:28 > 0:11:30like, you stupid young woman, you haven't got a fucking clue
0:11:30 > 0:11:33what you are talking about, who the fuck do you think you are?
0:11:33 > 0:11:39I remember being very upset by it.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43A number of the outbursts by Mr Pritchard that we have heard about
0:11:43 > 0:11:44seem to follow a pattern.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46He has on several occasions sought to change
0:11:46 > 0:11:47arrangements for committee trips.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50For example, changing his flights, or in one case during the trip to
0:11:50 > 0:11:53Los Angeles, trying to change his hotel.
0:11:53 > 0:11:55Then the clerks refuse because there are strict rules about the
0:11:55 > 0:11:57stuff and he will fly into a rage.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00We have been told that House managers know about this because he
0:12:00 > 0:12:06would often take years and Greek complaints directly to them.
0:12:06 > 0:12:07-- angry complaints.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10This was seen, we were told, as a means
0:12:10 > 0:12:11of intimidating the clerks on his committee.
0:12:11 > 0:12:17Mr Prichard said we didn't provide him with enough
0:12:17 > 0:12:24detail to respond but said...
0:12:24 > 0:12:26The thing is, clerks tend not to raise
0:12:26 > 0:12:30formal complaints.
0:12:30 > 0:12:34Indeed since 2014, no complaints have been escalated to
0:12:34 > 0:12:38the point where even mediation is required.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41Women know what happened to the last clerk to pursue
0:12:41 > 0:12:43a case.
0:12:43 > 0:12:45They have all heard of someone called Emily Commander.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48She was brilliant, probably the best line manager I ever had in the House
0:12:48 > 0:12:49of Commons.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53She was incredibly bright, had a very deft way at
0:12:53 > 0:12:56understanding huge amounts of information very quickly.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59But she also had the people skills which I
0:12:59 > 0:13:04found quite unusual in clerks sometimes.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06And she was good at managing MPs, which is not always
0:13:06 > 0:13:09easy sometimes.
0:13:09 > 0:13:11She was appointed as the clerk of the
0:13:11 > 0:13:16culture media and sport committee in 2010.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18She was laid clerk on perhaps the highest profile of a select
0:13:18 > 0:13:20committee investigation, the phone hacking inquiry.
0:13:20 > 0:13:25Where Rupert Murdoch was attacked with a foam pie.
0:13:25 > 0:13:33Also on that committee was Paul Farrelly, the
0:13:36 > 0:13:38Labour MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40Mr Farrelly and Ms Commander had worked together before, she had been
0:13:40 > 0:13:42a clerk on the science and technology committee.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45They had even been on a committee visit to Italy
0:13:45 > 0:13:46in May 2004.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48This is what one witness said happened there.
0:13:48 > 0:13:49He treated appallingly in front of everyone.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52He wound her up like a screw and reduced to tears.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55The more he upset her, the more he enjoyed it, the
0:13:55 > 0:13:59more he kept turning the screw.
0:13:59 > 0:14:05He was very aggressive. It felt like no one had the ability or the
0:14:05 > 0:14:09authority to intervene. Everyone knew it was wrong.When they were
0:14:09 > 0:14:14reunited on the culture media and sport committee other witnesses told
0:14:14 > 0:14:19us Mr Farrelly started again.He undermined her and pretty much every
0:14:19 > 0:14:23given opportunity. We were in a lot of meetings and in these meetings
0:14:23 > 0:14:27pretty much whenever she opened her mouth, he would undermine her. He
0:14:27 > 0:14:35would interject. He would call into question pretty much every time she
0:14:35 > 0:14:40spoke.How would you characterise his attitude towards her?
0:14:40 > 0:14:47Aggressive, dismissive, rude. And ultimately bullying.And how much of
0:14:47 > 0:14:55an effect on her?It ground her down. It basically reached crisis
0:14:55 > 0:15:01point. She could no longer do her job. He had undermined her and
0:15:01 > 0:15:09bullied her so much, so regularly, so badly, that she was left entirely
0:15:09 > 0:15:15exhausted, and incredibly distressed.And e-mail chain
0:15:15 > 0:15:18obtained by Newsnight summarising the case reveals the testimony of
0:15:18 > 0:15:24Miss Commander to her bosses.I have an anxious about encountering him, I
0:15:24 > 0:15:32have repeated nightmares about
0:15:32 > 0:15:34have repeated nightmares about going on committee visits with Mr Farrelly
0:15:34 > 0:15:39and been criticised by him for having neglected tiny details. After
0:15:39 > 0:15:43particularly unpleasant meetings I have felt physically six.In 2012
0:15:43 > 0:15:47formal complaint was raised against Mr Farrelly, a novelty, the
0:15:47 > 0:15:52procedure had been introduced just eight months before. This was the
0:15:52 > 0:15:56so-called respect policy. On inquiry was set up to be run by has official
0:15:56 > 0:16:02and it found to other women had complaints about his previous
0:16:02 > 0:16:06behaviour. Both testified. Newsnight has obtained a summary of one of
0:16:06 > 0:16:10those testimonies.I remember on occasions I noticed my hands shaking
0:16:10 > 0:16:16before a meeting of the committee. I began to sleep badly and lost my
0:16:16 > 0:16:20appetite. My husband and friends wanted me to go to the doctor and be
0:16:20 > 0:16:24signed off with stress.The three testimonies gave the House
0:16:24 > 0:16:28authorities a pattern of behaviour going back eight years. But
0:16:28 > 0:16:34Newsnight has learned that the House had decided that only behaviour that
0:16:34 > 0:16:37postdated the adoption of the Respect policy should fall within
0:16:37 > 0:16:43the scope of the investigation. The Respect policy was only introduced
0:16:43 > 0:16:47eight months before. An inquiry that began in February 2012 was only
0:16:47 > 0:16:52accepting evidence from June 2011 onwards. The testimony of those to
0:16:52 > 0:16:57other women was discarded. The inquiry ruled that Ms Commander's
0:16:57 > 0:17:02complaint in 2012, it could only reach a decision on a field of
0:17:02 > 0:17:05allegations yet overall it upheld the complaint, concluding that had
0:17:05 > 0:17:10been an abuse of power and position, and fair treatment and undermining a
0:17:10 > 0:17:16competent work by constant criticism. The process than called
0:17:16 > 0:17:20for that decision to be considered by the House of Commons commission,
0:17:20 > 0:17:25a committee of MPs.Order, order. The commission was chaired by John
0:17:25 > 0:17:29Burkle, then as now the Speaker of the house. Yet when they first met
0:17:29 > 0:17:34in November 2012 they couldn't reach a decision on what to do. Newsnight
0:17:34 > 0:17:38has obtained documents logging how a senior clerk in the house let it be
0:17:38 > 0:17:43known into the union in the House that Ms Commander should go into
0:17:43 > 0:17:47mediation with Mr Farrelly. They should sit down and work it out.
0:17:47 > 0:17:51Because if she did not, the hint was dropped, the commission would vote
0:17:51 > 0:17:57to conclude that no bullying had taken place. So what happened then?
0:17:57 > 0:18:01The case was allowed to Peter out over the next six months. Mr
0:18:01 > 0:18:06Farrelly wrote an apology in private and that was it. The case was
0:18:06 > 0:18:11closed. So here he is in January at the hearing about the BBC's gender
0:18:11 > 0:18:15pay gap. Still on the culture media and sport committee. Miss Commander
0:18:15 > 0:18:20has left the House and emigrated. We put all of this to the House of
0:18:20 > 0:18:24Commons. The Speaker denies that either he or the commission ever
0:18:24 > 0:18:29insisted on mediation. They also point out that when the case of Mr
0:18:29 > 0:18:32Farrelly reached the commission in November 2012 they suspended the
0:18:32 > 0:18:37respect policy. They came to this view, they said, because
0:18:37 > 0:18:40investigations were undertaken by a House of Commons official who might
0:18:40 > 0:18:44be considered to have an interest. And members had no right of appeal
0:18:44 > 0:18:49if a complaint was upheld, while staff could appeal it if it was
0:18:49 > 0:18:54dismissed. In other words, they suspended the Respect policy in
0:18:54 > 0:18:58November 2012 and then reformed and because they thought the old Respect
0:18:58 > 0:19:04policy was too tough on MPs. That is Mr Farrelly's reading as well, he
0:19:04 > 0:19:08told Newsnight the allegations were not upheld by the commission and the
0:19:08 > 0:19:11policy under which they were investigated was considered so
0:19:11 > 0:19:15unfair that it was immediately withdrawn and replaced by another
0:19:15 > 0:19:20policy. He denies any bullying. The House also said that the policy as
0:19:20 > 0:19:24it existed in 2011 lacked the required legal underpinning to be
0:19:24 > 0:19:30used to sanction MPs.Order.There are discussions once more about
0:19:30 > 0:19:36fixing the houses edge proceedings but the clerks are not hopeful.Let
0:19:36 > 0:19:40me make it clear, there must be zero tolerance of sexual harassment or
0:19:40 > 0:19:50bullying here at Westminster or elsewhere. Whether that involves
0:19:50 > 0:19:54members or their staff or parliamentary staff, or those
0:19:54 > 0:20:00working on, or visiting the estate. This is the Speaker, late last year,
0:20:00 > 0:20:05the same speed get involved in the inquiry into Paul Farrelly.House of
0:20:05 > 0:20:10Commons commission, which I chair, has a duty to provide a safe to
0:20:10 > 0:20:17work.He remains, in effect, the boss of all the clerks. But based on
0:20:17 > 0:20:24our interviews, his reputation on bullying is not good.For my part as
0:20:24 > 0:20:31Speaker, I am happy to do whatever I can. Others must do likewise.Back
0:20:31 > 0:20:38in 2010, a woman
0:20:38 > 0:20:40in 2010, a woman called Kate Emms became John Burkle's private sector
0:20:40 > 0:20:45to become a major position in the House. Yet she stood down from that
0:20:45 > 0:20:51post after less than a year in early 2011. His colleagues dash her
0:20:51 > 0:20:54colleagues have told Newsnight that Mr Burkle's bullying left her unable
0:20:54 > 0:20:59to continue in the job. She was sad and sick. As managers had to find a
0:20:59 > 0:21:04new role within the House. Has authorities were told she had
0:21:04 > 0:21:09post-traumatic stress disorder. Accounts of Kate Emms's experience
0:21:09 > 0:21:14are widely known among clerks. Witnesses have described John Burkle
0:21:14 > 0:21:18shouting at her comic undermining her and other stuff. A subsequent
0:21:18 > 0:21:23job was abducted so she would not have to the Speaker. A spokesperson
0:21:23 > 0:21:26said that the speaker completely and utterly refutes the allegation that
0:21:26 > 0:21:31he behaved in such a manner, either eight years ago or at any other
0:21:31 > 0:21:37time. Any suggestion to the contrary is simply not true. This episode
0:21:37 > 0:21:42left one strange memento. You see Kate Emms was the speaker's Private
0:21:42 > 0:21:47assistant when he had his official portraits done. She was supposed to
0:21:47 > 0:21:51be in it with him. She posed for the artist. However this painting wasn't
0:21:51 > 0:21:58revealed until six months after she took her next job, and it was
0:21:58 > 0:22:03revealed that her successor had been painted in, in her place, another
0:22:03 > 0:22:09woman clerk moved. Men suffer in the system as well but women clerks are
0:22:09 > 0:22:13particularly vulnerable. Lots to us that the House does not have its
0:22:13 > 0:22:18house in order. That is what so many of them cast the ultimate vote of
0:22:18 > 0:22:21no-confidence in their own management and simply choose to
0:22:21 > 0:22:28public service. -- simply choose to leave.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30That story from Lucinda Day and Chris Cook.
0:22:30 > 0:22:31Details of organisations offering information
0:22:31 > 0:22:33and support with bullying, sexual harassment or abuse, are
0:22:33 > 0:22:36available at bbc.co.uk/actionline, or you can call for free at any time
0:22:36 > 0:22:44to hear recorded information on 0800 077 077.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47Joining us now, deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats,
0:22:47 > 0:22:49Jo Swinson, who sits on the cross party working group
0:22:49 > 0:22:52on an independent complaints and grievance policy.
0:22:52 > 0:22:58Jo, nice of you to come in. Let me ask you, did any of those stories
0:22:58 > 0:23:05reach you, are those names all cases familiar?Not those specific cases
0:23:05 > 0:23:09although in the working group we considered evidence from staff but
0:23:09 > 0:23:13most of it was anonymous because staff did not feel comfortable,
0:23:13 > 0:23:19there is still this via issue around it and we had on our working group
0:23:19 > 0:23:23three staff representatives who were excellent. They collated the stories
0:23:23 > 0:23:28and brought them forward. It does chime in, we obviously started this
0:23:28 > 0:23:32process following reports about sexual harassment at Westminster
0:23:32 > 0:23:36which was obviously very serious, and would have come forward with
0:23:36 > 0:23:40proposals on that. What was interesting from the staff
0:23:40 > 0:23:42representatives, while there were also concerned about but they said
0:23:42 > 0:23:47in terms of the quantity of general experiences, the more general
0:23:47 > 0:23:51bullying and harassment was a great issue in terms of how many people it
0:23:51 > 0:23:57affected.So what does this story as Chris has told it to might tell you?
0:23:57 > 0:24:02What it raises questions about is the existing Respect policy which
0:24:02 > 0:24:08exists for House stuff. One step ahead of where we were. Working from
0:24:08 > 0:24:12members of parliament, which we were looking at in our deliberations,
0:24:12 > 0:24:17because they had nothing like this. At least House stuff had the respect
0:24:17 > 0:24:21policy. But clearly the implementation of that, from the
0:24:21 > 0:24:26testimony in your report, does raise significant questions.Be blunt, it
0:24:26 > 0:24:32hasn't worked. It doesn't work. If the whole Respect policy has to be
0:24:32 > 0:24:36suspended the moment you bring an allegation and change because it is
0:24:36 > 0:24:38considered too hard line, fundamentally that is worse than
0:24:38 > 0:24:43having nothing, is it not?There is a fair point about making sure an
0:24:43 > 0:24:47appeals process is built-in, that is fair enough. We concluded on the
0:24:47 > 0:24:53working group that it would be helpful if this new process bringing
0:24:53 > 0:24:58in would ultimately help House stuff because we did not think the Respect
0:24:58 > 0:25:01policy was sufficient. Particularly in terms of sexual harassment where
0:25:01 > 0:25:05it had not been used at all, which I don't take to believe that none of
0:25:05 > 0:25:08it was happening but more that it was not trusted to bring those
0:25:08 > 0:25:13complaints forward.So when you look and hear and what you have seen
0:25:13 > 0:25:18tonight, what should happen to those men named, Pritchard, Farrelly and
0:25:18 > 0:25:25Jon Bercow?The obvious thing to say would be that there should be a
0:25:25 > 0:25:27thorough independent investigation. That is what is supposed to have
0:25:27 > 0:25:33happened.Can they keep their jobs? Whispered one side of the story. We
0:25:33 > 0:25:37have heard denials. I've heard this for the first time this evening. But
0:25:37 > 0:25:41they do deserve to have a proper independent process and I think that
0:25:41 > 0:25:46is what clearly, in terms of the 20 job process, just going to a
0:25:46 > 0:25:49committee of MPs is not sufficient. This is where independence is so
0:25:49 > 0:25:54important because you have this power dynamic in Parliament.So who
0:25:54 > 0:26:00does it then? The frustrations of Jon Bercow in particular, it is that
0:26:00 > 0:26:03he is presiding over the system while being part of the alleged
0:26:03 > 0:26:07problem. Where do you go to address that?Is always an issue in any
0:26:07 > 0:26:11organisation where you'll have some of the other top of the organisation
0:26:11 > 0:26:15who is where the complaint goes. This is what we've recommended a
0:26:15 > 0:26:17properly independent process with the investigation will be carried
0:26:17 > 0:26:22out in terms of sexual harassment by Rob Lee trained sexual violence
0:26:22 > 0:26:26advocates and in terms of workplace by, will contract an independent
0:26:26 > 0:26:30service to be able to conduct that investigation thoroughly.But what
0:26:30 > 0:26:38does it say when legislators are not able to look after their own
0:26:38 > 0:26:43judicial process!It says Parliament is an outdated workplace. It doesn't
0:26:43 > 0:26:47have modern professional standards. There a culture of exceptionalism
0:26:47 > 0:26:51which has many MPs see themselves above other members of staff rather
0:26:51 > 0:26:54than being in a collegiate environment where we work with
0:26:54 > 0:26:58clerks and other members of staff to deliver good legislative lawmaking
0:26:58 > 0:27:03for the good of democracy. And that culture, whatever process you put in
0:27:03 > 0:27:08place, it is part of what is so important to change. Because what we
0:27:08 > 0:27:13have seen on that video tonight is, even when you have a process, if
0:27:13 > 0:27:16your power relationships are what they are, the dynamic is that MPs
0:27:16 > 0:27:19have all the power, and if your culture is that it's easier to move
0:27:19 > 0:27:23somebody more junior than challenge someone in power, then nothing will
0:27:23 > 0:27:29happen.Joe Swinson, you are sitting on a committee in a position to
0:27:29 > 0:27:34help. -- Jo. Do you have any sense of optimism that you can change
0:27:34 > 0:27:38this?I have some but I don't underestimate the challenges. We
0:27:38 > 0:27:42have agreed and we are starting on the process now of consulting on a
0:27:42 > 0:27:45behaviour code for everyone who works in parliament that we hope
0:27:45 > 0:27:48will encompass all staff, all members. And there needs to be
0:27:48 > 0:27:53proper training. Because the assumption that just because someone
0:27:53 > 0:27:56is elected to parliament that they understand how to be a good
0:27:56 > 0:27:59employer, that they understand all these issues about how to treat
0:27:59 > 0:28:05others...And not bully othersyou would hope they would but having the
0:28:05 > 0:28:10training to set the cultural tone is essential.Jo Swinson, thank you for
0:28:10 > 0:28:12coming in.
0:28:12 > 0:28:16The police officer who rushed to the aid of the Russian who spied
0:28:16 > 0:28:18for Britain is tonight recovering in hospital in Wiltshire.
0:28:18 > 0:28:20Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey is still in a serious condition
0:28:20 > 0:28:22after his own exposure to the nerve agent.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24Police have praised his courage and dedication.
0:28:24 > 0:28:25Last night, after several days' silence,
0:28:25 > 0:28:27Russian domestic news put the attempted assassination
0:28:27 > 0:28:30of the former spy on its evening bulletin, with what sounded
0:28:30 > 0:28:31like a couched, possibly satirical threat -
0:28:31 > 0:28:35warning anyone who dreamt of a career as a double agent could
0:28:35 > 0:28:43expect their life to be curtailed.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45The presenter went on to advise "traitors or those who simply
0:28:45 > 0:28:48hate their country in their free time" not to choose Britain
0:28:48 > 0:28:49as a place to live.
0:28:49 > 0:28:52But back to our own broadcast and our diplomatic editor,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54Mark Urban, who's been leading the way on much of
0:28:54 > 0:29:02this investigation, is with me again tonight.
0:29:03 > 0:29:11As the search for the nerve agent become any clearer?Yes. We now know
0:29:11 > 0:29:14more about the nerve agent. They have got things pretty specific. It
0:29:14 > 0:29:24has taken them a few days. It is much more specific now. What I am
0:29:24 > 0:29:32hearing is that this has been used to construct a case that there are
0:29:32 > 0:29:36very few labs in the world that could have produced something.
0:29:36 > 0:29:42Esoteric and sophisticated in chemical terms.You mean this could
0:29:42 > 0:29:47not be a criminal lab, it would have to be something else?Exactly, it
0:29:47 > 0:29:50points towards a state institution. A comparatively small number of
0:29:50 > 0:29:55states have real expertise in chemical warfare.What are the
0:29:55 > 0:30:01indications?First and foremost, first Sergei Skripal and Yulia, the
0:30:01 > 0:30:04most precise information they have about how this agent operates, I it
0:30:04 > 0:30:10attacks the body, there may still be some hope of getting them back from
0:30:10 > 0:30:12the pretty catastrophic condition that we understand they were in
0:30:12 > 0:30:18after they were poisoned on Sunday. They remained in critical condition.
0:30:18 > 0:30:22We don't know when it will be possible to bring them back to
0:30:22 > 0:30:27health. More broadly, it is going to form part of a diplomatic offensive,
0:30:27 > 0:30:31if you like. I think we can see this building up. Some fascinating
0:30:31 > 0:30:39commons today by US under Secretary of State to Christian Fraser.
0:30:39 > 0:30:42If it was proven there was a link to the Kremlin, would the United States
0:30:42 > 0:30:47do something about that?I think we would be very supportive of whatever
0:30:47 > 0:30:52decision the United Kingdom made. What I am hearing is, to quote one
0:30:52 > 0:30:57person involved in this, a lot of conversations are now going on
0:30:57 > 0:31:01between the UK and its Western allies. Obviously starting with
0:31:01 > 0:31:06America, but obviously European allies. This suggests to me that
0:31:06 > 0:31:10early next week we may see some diplomatic push and the finger may
0:31:10 > 0:31:14be pointed at a particular country. Mark, thank you.
0:31:14 > 0:31:20The role of King Lear is often called the Everest of acting -
0:31:20 > 0:31:23a part that has been described variously as unplayable,
0:31:23 > 0:31:26debilitating and almost intolerable for the actor involved.
0:31:26 > 0:31:29Sir Anthony Sher's portrayal for the Royal Shakespeare Company
0:31:29 > 0:31:33was called both monumental and unbearably moving -
0:31:33 > 0:31:36certainly, he brought a sense of the frustration of frailty that
0:31:36 > 0:31:39comes with old age.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42His new book, Year of the Mad King, charts the time he spent discovering
0:31:42 > 0:31:44"the smell of mortality".
0:31:44 > 0:31:46I talked to him earlier about the role of Lear,
0:31:46 > 0:31:49whether Shakespeare's language was misogynist, and what should
0:31:49 > 0:31:55happen to Kevin Spacey now.
0:31:55 > 0:32:01I started by asking him how much of a bearing age as on a production of
0:32:01 > 0:32:04King Lear.
0:32:04 > 0:32:05Yes, I think that's true.
0:32:05 > 0:32:09I think because Shakespeare charts his old age so
0:32:09 > 0:32:15specifically, as you begin to investigate it, there is
0:32:15 > 0:32:19extraordinary resonance with either older people that you know, or in my
0:32:19 > 0:32:27case, my own age.
0:32:28 > 0:32:36There are moments of Lear that are terribly familiar.
0:32:36 > 0:32:40And there's a particular point Lear has these rages
0:32:40 > 0:32:45in the early part of the play.
0:32:45 > 0:32:52These extraordinary storms of anger that come out of him.
0:32:52 > 0:32:56And in one of the most famous - his speech, "Reason not the need" -
0:32:56 > 0:33:03he loses his way in the middle of the speech, and has a series of
0:33:03 > 0:33:10unfinished sentences. It's such remarkable writing, that.
0:33:10 > 0:33:14The most eloquent playwright ever makes his
0:33:14 > 0:33:19character inarticulate.
0:33:19 > 0:33:24And several people have said that when they see
0:33:24 > 0:33:28that, it really makes them feel quite strange,
0:33:28 > 0:33:34because it's their dad up there on the stage who is trying to
0:33:34 > 0:33:39exert his force and is losing his way.
0:33:39 > 0:33:43It's a very remarkable piece of writing.
0:33:43 > 0:33:49There are very funny moments you describe.
0:33:49 > 0:33:52The growing of the beard for Lear and others, which
0:33:52 > 0:33:57creates havoc with your own personal life.
0:33:57 > 0:34:02Well, there is a point where my beard gets very bushy.
0:34:02 > 0:34:06Taxis won't stop for me.
0:34:06 > 0:34:11I hail a black cab, it slows down, takes a look and then speeds off!
0:34:11 > 0:34:17And I think they're making some sort of visual
0:34:17 > 0:34:19assessment, that either I am a tramp or a terrorist.
0:34:19 > 0:34:23Some of the Shakespearean language really shocked
0:34:23 > 0:34:27you this time around. He's describing female genitalia.
0:34:27 > 0:34:30He's cursing a woman's loins. Yeah.
0:34:30 > 0:34:33And you think this is actually coming
0:34:33 > 0:34:36from the playwright himself?
0:34:36 > 0:34:42Well, there are times in Shakespeare where
0:34:42 > 0:34:46the writing becomes so visceral that it starts to feel personal.
0:34:46 > 0:34:54I find it so shocking, it is so graphic,
0:34:54 > 0:34:57that I just don't know where Shakespeare is getting that from.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59Do you think it's misogynist?
0:34:59 > 0:35:03It's definitely misogynist, but surprising to find
0:35:03 > 0:35:11that in a man, a writer who is so all embracing.
0:35:16 > 0:35:21Do you think Shakespeare was physically repelled by women?There
0:35:21 > 0:35:25is a strong theory that he was gay, mainly based on the fact that his
0:35:25 > 0:35:32most personal writing, the sonnets, three quarters of them are directed
0:35:32 > 0:35:37to a young man. I don't know why being gay should make him that
0:35:37 > 0:35:45frightened of women. I mean, it's so extreme in that speech, that it's
0:35:45 > 0:35:54more than dislike or disgust. It's like naked terror.
0:35:54 > 0:35:56We are at a place now, it feels as if
0:35:56 > 0:35:58the MeToo movement is rewriting power allocation.
0:35:58 > 0:36:00Do you think that's true in the theatre?
0:36:00 > 0:36:02Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes.
0:36:02 > 0:36:10At the RSC, much more than half of the production staff up to
0:36:10 > 0:36:18the directors are women.
0:36:18 > 0:36:24It's very, very evident as a change in how theatre operates.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28And when it is about sexual abuse or sexual
0:36:28 > 0:36:30harassment - obviously not just about women,
0:36:30 > 0:36:34Kevin Spacey was disappeared from the film he was making, a sense
0:36:34 > 0:36:36of sort of being erased - is that right?
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Is that the right approach?
0:36:39 > 0:36:45Look, I mean it's - we are in the kind of shock waves
0:36:45 > 0:36:49of the Weinstein scandal, so everything is very
0:36:49 > 0:36:54heightened at the moment.
0:36:54 > 0:36:56It's kind of like a big learning curve that we
0:36:56 > 0:37:02have all undergone, because of the startling revelation.
0:37:02 > 0:37:09So I don't know how things will settle.
0:37:09 > 0:37:12Now that we can accept it as something
0:37:12 > 0:37:17that happens and can avoid it happening, I don't know.
0:37:17 > 0:37:22Someone like Spacey, can he come back
0:37:22 > 0:37:24in a couple of years' time?
0:37:24 > 0:37:27Do you think you can? I...
0:37:27 > 0:37:31I mean, I hope so, because he is absolutely
0:37:31 > 0:37:36a tremendous actor.
0:37:36 > 0:37:41And I guess in the past we have forgiven people's
0:37:41 > 0:37:44personal weaknesses.
0:37:44 > 0:37:49It's a tremendous loss to acting.
0:37:49 > 0:37:52There is seems almost an inconsistency,
0:37:52 > 0:37:59doesn't there, with the people that we hold up and hang out,
0:37:59 > 0:38:01and the people that we sort of ignore and move on from?
0:38:01 > 0:38:04I wonder if it makes any sense to you, the sort of
0:38:04 > 0:38:05arbitrariness?
0:38:05 > 0:38:10It won't any more be arbitrary, will it?
0:38:10 > 0:38:15I mean, if Polanski was happening now, with us
0:38:15 > 0:38:20so much more aware of this kind of abuse, we wouldn't be
0:38:20 > 0:38:22just letting him carry on, would we?
0:38:22 > 0:38:25We'd... There would be a different reaction.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28I really think the Weinstein thing is a big change than perhaps we
0:38:28 > 0:38:36realise yet.
0:38:41 > 0:38:45Sir Anthony Sherman talking to me this evening. Just before we go, let
0:38:45 > 0:38:55me show you the front pages of tomorrow's papers. The times has
0:38:55 > 0:38:59Donald Trump saying American allies could be spared the tariffs on steel
0:38:59 > 0:39:03and aluminium. Traders not safe on British soil, says Russia. The
0:39:03 > 0:39:10broadcaster mocking it. The daily Telegraph has give blood pressure
0:39:10 > 0:39:15drugs to half of the UK. Half of the adult population could be put on
0:39:15 > 0:39:19blood pressure drugs. You can see Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, the
0:39:19 > 0:39:27officer now recovering, we believe, from that nerve agent exposure. The
0:39:27 > 0:39:32financial Times has Trump offers exemptions to -- on steel tariffs to
0:39:32 > 0:39:41real friends. And the border point, Donald Tusk assurers Leo Varadker
0:39:41 > 0:39:47that Ireland is top of the Brussels agenda. The Guardian has NHS staff
0:39:47 > 0:39:49getting a 6.5% rise.
0:39:49 > 0:39:50That's all for this evening.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52But before we go, it's a very modern worry -
0:39:52 > 0:39:54machines, AI, robots are taking over our jobs.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57What does it mean to be human any more if we're out-competed
0:39:57 > 0:39:58on every front by computers?
0:39:58 > 0:40:01Ed Miliband once claimed to be able to solve a Rubik's
0:40:01 > 0:40:02cube in 90 seconds.
0:40:02 > 0:40:04Here at Newsnight we were pretty impressed.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07Until we saw this invention today by Ben Katz and Jared Di Carlo
0:40:07 > 0:40:08at the Massachusetts Institute of technology.
0:40:08 > 0:40:10Goodnight.
0:40:10 > 0:40:18Starting in three, two, one!