0:00:08 > 0:00:10Tonight, a broadcast exclusive with the CEO
0:00:10 > 0:00:11of Cambridge Analytica.
0:00:11 > 0:00:12Alexander Nix responds
0:00:12 > 0:00:15to the allegations of dirty tricks at his company -
0:00:15 > 0:00:23and vast breaches of data security.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26We see this as, er as a coordinated attack by the media that's been
0:00:26 > 0:00:28going on for very very many months, in order
0:00:28 > 0:00:32to damage the company that
0:00:32 > 0:00:38had some involvement with the election of Donald Trump.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40We put to him the accusations of a whistleblower that he runs
0:00:40 > 0:00:45a full scale propaganda service.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48We get our biggest glimpse yet of the Brexit deal.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50Is it to be a full English or a dog's dinner?
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Now today was about the steps we will take
0:00:52 > 0:00:56next year when we leave the EU, but before we fully relinquish our
0:00:56 > 0:00:58legal ties with Brussels.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01And there are signs of some cheeky Continental interlopers sneaking
0:01:01 > 0:01:07on to our plate.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10Jacob Rees-Mogg is here to sample the menu.
0:01:10 > 0:01:11And this..
0:01:11 > 0:01:12Vladimir Putin!
0:01:12 > 0:01:14CHEERING
0:01:14 > 0:01:15Look who's back in power.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18If he completes this term he'll be the longest serving leader
0:01:18 > 0:01:21in Russia since Stalin.
0:01:21 > 0:01:29We'll hear from one of those who stood against him.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Good evening.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37Tonight, the boss at the centre of one
0:01:37 > 0:01:38of the UK's most controversial companies speaks exclusively
0:01:38 > 0:01:44to Newsnight about allegations that company has developed -
0:01:44 > 0:01:47in the words of one whistleblower - The Full Service Propaganda Machine.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49Alexander Nix is the CEO of Cambridge Analytica -
0:01:49 > 0:01:51employed, by Donald Trump amongst others - to help his
0:01:51 > 0:01:53presidential election campaign.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56The company uses the micro targeting of individuals to work
0:01:56 > 0:01:59out their behavioural patterns - as consumers and voters.
0:01:59 > 0:02:07After a report in the Observer yesterday, they stand accused
0:02:08 > 0:02:11of using data from Facebook users without their consent - to change
0:02:11 > 0:02:12minds of millions of Americans.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Facebook shares dropped 8% today on the news.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Tonight, the company faced more trouble in an undercover report,
0:02:17 > 0:02:25Channel 4 filmed the company bosses offering to entrap foreign
0:02:26 > 0:02:27Politicians with dirty tricks.
0:02:27 > 0:02:34Here's John Sweeney.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37Tonight Cambridge data company Cambridge Analytica stands accused
0:02:37 > 0:02:42of taking part in one of the greatest preachers of ordinary
0:02:42 > 0:02:46people's data in history. Cambridge Analytica's Boz Alexander Nix
0:02:46 > 0:02:51tempted what he thought was a wealthy client with a bag full of
0:02:51 > 0:02:57dirty tricks. What we owed it only did not know was that the client was
0:02:57 > 0:03:04in fact an undercover reporter for four News.
0:03:40 > 0:03:44Cambridge analytic and Alexander Nix deny any wrongdoing. The company,
0:03:44 > 0:03:50which denies it a role in furthering Brexit that did work for the Trump
0:03:50 > 0:03:54campaign, is also facing an investigation by the British
0:03:54 > 0:03:59information Commissioner tonight as the scandal grows. But the question
0:03:59 > 0:04:02potentially affecting millions of people around the world is whether
0:04:02 > 0:04:06their personal data was mined, and to what end. Imagine somebody knocks
0:04:06 > 0:04:12on your door and enters and rummages through all your staff and then
0:04:12 > 0:04:16rummages through the bits and bobs of 300 of your friends and family.
0:04:16 > 0:04:22You would tell them to bugger off. But that's exactly what Cambridge
0:04:22 > 0:04:28Analytica is accused of doing to the Facebook data of 50 million people.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32At the heart of this story is a Russian born digital genius Doctor
0:04:32 > 0:04:38Aleksandr Kogan. Reports say he scraped data from Facebook users who
0:04:38 > 0:04:45took part in the coming personality test he defied. Taking advantage of
0:04:45 > 0:04:51Facebook's obscure privacy settings and claiming he was doing research,
0:04:51 > 0:04:57Dr Kogan reportedly was able to access personal data not only of the
0:04:57 > 0:05:01almost 300,000 users who took the test but also of almost all of their
0:05:01 > 0:05:07Facebook friends. That apparently opened up access to some 50 million
0:05:07 > 0:05:13user profiles. Dr Kogan has declined to comment, except to maintain that
0:05:13 > 0:05:22his programme was, quote, a very standard vanilla Facebook app".
0:05:22 > 0:05:26Facebook dumped its relationship with Cambridge Analytica on Saturday
0:05:26 > 0:05:34but today its share price tanked by around $35 billion. Professor David
0:05:34 > 0:05:36Carroll from the United States is suing Cambridge Analytica in the
0:05:36 > 0:05:44High Court in London.It was a reality check, you just get the data
0:05:44 > 0:05:47and see it as accurate in terms of my voter file some sort of accurate
0:05:47 > 0:05:53in terms of my politics. But what was really disturbing to me was that
0:05:53 > 0:05:56it came from the United Kingdom. And it came from the military
0:05:56 > 0:06:04contractor. And I knew that, and that was really distressing.He has
0:06:04 > 0:06:08been -- there has been and is about the activities of Cambridge
0:06:08 > 0:06:12Analytica for months, the firm has consistently denied helping Brexit
0:06:12 > 0:06:18along or doing dirty tricks 4-team Trump. Tonight 's revelations raise
0:06:18 > 0:06:22a simple question. How reliable is the word of Alexander Nix?
0:06:22 > 0:06:25John Sweeney reporting, I spoke to Alexander Nix, the CEO
0:06:25 > 0:06:28of Cambridge Analytica this afternoon, in an interview arranged
0:06:28 > 0:06:31to discuss the data breach and before details of the latest
0:06:31 > 0:06:34Channel 4 accusations were aired - I began by asking him was it
0:06:34 > 0:06:36right Dr Kogan offerred Cambridge Analytica access
0:06:36 > 0:06:44to Facebook apps that were given special permission to harvest data.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50It is certainly right that he gave us access to a dataset. I think we
0:06:50 > 0:06:58would disagree with the veracity of the claims concerning how powerful
0:06:58 > 0:07:07this data was. We rang many models over a period of time, to understand
0:07:07 > 0:07:12if we could use this data in a meaningful way and ultimately it
0:07:12 > 0:07:16proved fruitless so we moved down a different avenue.Because he says
0:07:16 > 0:07:24the data came not just from using the apps but from a far wider circle
0:07:24 > 0:07:28of friends, or their contacts gave you status updates, like some
0:07:28 > 0:07:32messages. So from touching 200,000 people you expanded into their
0:07:32 > 0:07:37entire social networks which scathe you to most of America.Look, I
0:07:37 > 0:07:41think it's important to understand what happened back in 2014 is, we
0:07:41 > 0:07:48were approached by a very respectable academic, who said that
0:07:48 > 0:07:52he had the wherewithal, the legitimate and legal wherewithal to
0:07:52 > 0:07:59collect data on Facebook users that we might be able to use an part of
0:07:59 > 0:08:06our modelling. And we entered into a contract with his individual to
0:08:06 > 0:08:11undertake large-scale piece of research for our company. And that
0:08:11 > 0:08:15involved going out and seen close to 40,000 individuals to undertake
0:08:15 > 0:08:21survey. A bit like an opinion survey. And as part of that survey,
0:08:21 > 0:08:27the individuals consented to give up some of their data to this academic,
0:08:27 > 0:08:32Dr Kogan, and also some data on some of their friends. This work was
0:08:32 > 0:08:36undertaken by Dr Kogan in its entirety. He simply delivered to us
0:08:36 > 0:08:44the model derivatives of the data he collected. And we then looked at how
0:08:44 > 0:08:48we could build models on top of these models to understand whether
0:08:48 > 0:08:53that would give us any insight or signal into these audiences.So when
0:08:53 > 0:09:00Chris Wylie says that Dr Kogan was using apps from people who had no
0:09:00 > 0:09:06idea on Facebook, is he wrong, is he lying?I think, my understanding is
0:09:06 > 0:09:10that Dr Kogan sought permission from the people who filled out the survey
0:09:10 > 0:09:15and then they were giving update on their friends. Let me point out that
0:09:15 > 0:09:20this is no different to what Barack Obama's campaign did in 2012. His
0:09:20 > 0:09:26campaign produced a Facebook app that requested their supporters to
0:09:26 > 0:09:31give up their Facebook data and also allowed them to give up data on
0:09:31 > 0:09:36their...They knew they were doing it.Exactly and it's exactly the
0:09:36 > 0:09:41same.You are saying everyone you asked knew they were giving up their
0:09:41 > 0:09:46data.Everyone, let me clear up, we didn't ask everyone. Everyone that
0:09:46 > 0:09:49Dr Kogan engaged with, my understanding is that they knew they
0:09:49 > 0:09:53were giving up their data, and they would have signed some sort of
0:09:53 > 0:09:59permission for that.Why do you think Channel 4 then has been
0:09:59 > 0:10:08filming an undercover sting to prove that you had involvement in er and
0:10:08 > 0:10:14unethical way of using people's most intimate and personal data?Look I
0:10:14 > 0:10:19can't speak to Channel 4's motives. I think they're undercover sting was
0:10:19 > 0:10:29intended to embarrass us...Why? Again, look, we see this as a
0:10:29 > 0:10:36coordinated attack by the media that's been going on for very very
0:10:36 > 0:10:44many months, in order to damage the company that had some involvement
0:10:44 > 0:10:48with the election of Donald Trump. Do you know what they filmed? Do you
0:10:48 > 0:10:54remember what you said? Do you know what they will use?I have a fair
0:10:54 > 0:10:59understanding, yes.Is it as bad as you think?You asked earlier if I
0:10:59 > 0:11:04had regrets, yes, I have a huge amount of regrets about the fact
0:11:04 > 0:11:08that we maybe undertook this meeting and spoke with a certain amount of
0:11:08 > 0:11:13hyperbole about some of the things we do. What we were trying to do was
0:11:13 > 0:11:18to elicit from the undercover reporter the true intentions of the
0:11:18 > 0:11:25meeting. These meetings started out as very bone fide philanthropic all
0:11:25 > 0:11:30Facebook request to save this is delivered services to help in the
0:11:30 > 0:11:33country of Sri Lanka, to help make it a better country and help spread
0:11:33 > 0:11:37the wealth through projects of information technology and health
0:11:37 > 0:11:42care. By the time I joined the meetings, the undercover reporter
0:11:42 > 0:11:48pivoted them such that he was asking us about entrapping political
0:11:48 > 0:11:56officials, the use of honey traps, and all sorts of other behaviour.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00Cambridge Analytica has data on how most of America thinks. You are
0:12:00 > 0:12:03completely confident that Cambridge Analytica has not in any way
0:12:03 > 0:12:08influenced the outcome of the Brexit vote or of the Trump click to rate?
0:12:08 > 0:12:13Of the Brexit vote. Of the Trump victory we were involved in the
0:12:13 > 0:12:17Trump campaign as I've made clear for many months now. We managed
0:12:17 > 0:12:22everything from research to date to analytics, to all the digital
0:12:22 > 0:12:29marketing, to also the TV marketing that was undertaken. We had a role
0:12:29 > 0:12:33that was core to some of the functions delivered to the campaign.
0:12:33 > 0:12:39And do you feel you have skewed democracy by playing a part in that?
0:12:39 > 0:12:43By providing campaign services to a candidate who had been fairly
0:12:43 > 0:12:47nominated as the Republican representative of the United States?
0:12:47 > 0:12:52How is that possible? So you think that Hillary Clinton is alleged to
0:12:52 > 0:12:57have a campaign team and Donald Trump isn't?Do you feel there is
0:12:57 > 0:13:04anything ethically that you would do differently as a company now?I have
0:13:04 > 0:13:09some regrets about the way that I have represented what the company
0:13:09 > 0:13:20does. I certainly feel that the air of mystery and negativity that
0:13:20 > 0:13:26surrounds the work of Cambridge is Miss founded, and as the CEO I take
0:13:26 > 0:13:29responsibility for that. I take responsibility in light of the fact
0:13:29 > 0:13:32that the staff have worked incredibly hard to build this
0:13:32 > 0:13:37business up. They are very driven and finding you know, high-tech
0:13:37 > 0:13:44solutions to very real problems that face people in the world today, and
0:13:44 > 0:13:51if I have, you know, failed to convey what we do in the right way,
0:13:51 > 0:13:55to viewers, and the public, then that is a failing and yes I have
0:13:55 > 0:14:01some regrets about that.Thank you very much.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04We did ask Alexander Nix if he wanted to talk to us again
0:14:04 > 0:14:06after the Channel 4 report but he declined.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09Channel 4 and the Observer have told us they stick by their reporting.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12Finally, you might say, a cheer or two - but not three.
0:14:12 > 0:14:14The long awaited transition deal between London and Brussels marks
0:14:14 > 0:14:21what now feels like a real milestone in the Brexit negotiations.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25The agreement sorts citizens' rights and the transition deal and
0:14:25 > 0:14:28provides legal continuity after Brexit takes
0:14:28 > 0:14:31place on March 29th 2019, but it came only after painful compromises
0:14:31 > 0:14:34and a debate that pitted business calls for certainty against Brexiter
0:14:34 > 0:14:35demands for sovereignty.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38Britain is now set to wait until at least 2021 to take control
0:14:38 > 0:14:42of laws, immigration and money.
0:14:42 > 0:14:47In return, businesses in the UK and EU are given
0:14:47 > 0:14:48stronger assurances that an abrupt cliff-edge
0:14:48 > 0:14:49will be avoided next year.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52EU negotiator Michel Barnier hailed the deal as a "decisive step".
0:14:52 > 0:14:55But the future of the Irish border remains unresolved and some
0:14:55 > 0:14:57Brexiteers have questioned what wins the Government had
0:14:57 > 0:15:00in the negotiations.
0:15:00 > 0:15:05We've waited a long time, but now, at last, we know the flavour
0:15:05 > 0:15:09of the first stages of Brexit.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13There's been a bit of give and take on the road that is meant -
0:15:13 > 0:15:17eventually - to deliver the full English.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20Or should we say, a full UK Brexit?
0:15:20 > 0:15:24So, finally we have something to chew over.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27Now today was about the steps we will take next year
0:15:27 > 0:15:31when we leave the EU, but before we fully relinquish our
0:15:31 > 0:15:32legal ties with Brussels.
0:15:32 > 0:15:38And there are signs of some cheeky continental interlopers
0:15:38 > 0:15:41sneaking onto our plate.
0:15:49 > 0:15:55Britain has given ground in four main areas in the hope that EU
0:15:55 > 0:15:57leaders will sign up to a transition period at their summit
0:15:57 > 0:15:59later this week.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01Not quite, perhaps, the full English Brexit
0:16:01 > 0:16:03supporters had hoped for.
0:16:03 > 0:16:05Britain has agreed that...
0:16:05 > 0:16:08The rights of EU citizens will continue to be guaranteed
0:16:08 > 0:16:12during the transition.
0:16:12 > 0:16:17That transition will end on the last day of 2020, slightly earlier
0:16:17 > 0:16:20that the UK had hoped.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23The UK will still be bound by EU fishing rules until then,
0:16:23 > 0:16:27though the UK will be consulted.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30And Britain will stand by a back stock agreement from last December
0:16:30 > 0:16:36on Northern Ireland if no overall deal is reached.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39Downing Street points out that there are wins: The UK will be
0:16:39 > 0:16:41free to negotiate and sign trade deals around the world
0:16:41 > 0:16:43during the transition.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46A special committee will make sure that both sides act in good
0:16:46 > 0:16:50faith during that period, and Theresa May can say
0:16:50 > 0:16:53that the UK will gain full control of its borders,
0:16:53 > 0:16:58money and courts at the end of 2020.
0:16:58 > 0:17:03TRANSLATION:We're able this morning to agree,
0:17:03 > 0:17:07and after all those days and nights of hard work, on a large part
0:17:07 > 0:17:09of what will make up an international agreement
0:17:09 > 0:17:13for the ordered withdrawal of the United Kingdom.
0:17:13 > 0:17:18And there is a lot of work still to be done on important subjects,
0:17:18 > 0:17:22including Ireland and Northern Ireland.
0:17:22 > 0:17:29Our teams have worked hard and at pace to secure the terms
0:17:29 > 0:17:31of a time limited implementation period that gives
0:17:31 > 0:17:33the certainty demanded by businesses and citizens
0:17:33 > 0:17:35across the European Union and United Kingdom.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38But the 13 strong contingent of Scottish Tory MPs are unhappy
0:17:38 > 0:17:44that the UK will not have control of its waters during the transition.
0:17:44 > 0:17:51I don't think anyone should be under any illusion that we can try
0:17:52 > 0:17:54try and sell this as, "Better than expected",
0:17:54 > 0:17:56"It could have been a lot worse", you know, "Take your medicine
0:17:56 > 0:17:57and go away"...
0:17:57 > 0:18:01A useful phrase, whether you agree with it or not, it would be easier
0:18:01 > 0:18:04to get someone to drink a pint of cold sick than try and sell this
0:18:04 > 0:18:08as a good deal for a fisherman and it's clear from the reaction
0:18:08 > 0:18:09from fishermen in Murray, fishing communities,
0:18:09 > 0:18:12that they don't think this is a good deal and they agree
0:18:12 > 0:18:13with me on that point.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15At the end of this year, when the 2019 quotas
0:18:15 > 0:18:19are in agreement, the UK will still be at the table.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23At the end of 2020, we will be there as a third country,
0:18:23 > 0:18:24so full control of our waters.
0:18:24 > 0:18:29The question is, what happens in middle year, just for 12 months,
0:18:29 > 0:18:32where I understand we would not actually be in the December council
0:18:32 > 0:18:34but there is a process by which we would be able
0:18:34 > 0:18:39to feed into that.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42I'm sure everyone will be looking at what are the extra protections
0:18:42 > 0:18:45we've got for that one year?
0:18:45 > 0:18:50So, it's not quite the full English, though a considerable amount
0:18:50 > 0:18:52of work has gone into this.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55It will be just under three years before we can see what the full UK
0:18:55 > 0:18:58Brexit really looks like.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01Nick joins me now, with hot off the press, a letter from the PM
0:19:06 > 0:19:11That was the last meal he got today. He joins me now, hot off the press
0:19:11 > 0:19:15news. This letter from the Prime Minister and that Ireland border
0:19:15 > 0:19:20arrangement. What do you know now? Theresa May wrote to Donald Tusk to
0:19:20 > 0:19:24offer assurances the UK Government will ensure there is no hard border
0:19:24 > 0:19:28in Northern Ireland. Now, Donald Tusk had a few weeks ago warned that
0:19:28 > 0:19:32the UK was in danger of backsliding from an agreement is reached with
0:19:32 > 0:19:37the EU back in December. The Prime Minister has said this evening that
0:19:37 > 0:19:42the UK is committed to that agreement in its entirety. So what
0:19:42 > 0:19:47does that mean? It means the UK will, as it said in December,
0:19:47 > 0:19:49maintain full alignment with the rules on the single market and the
0:19:49 > 0:19:55customs union which support North South cooperation. Now, it is
0:19:55 > 0:19:59important to say that Downing Street believes that this backstop
0:19:59 > 0:20:03agreement will not be necessary because there will be, they believe,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08a comprehensive free trade agreement between the UK and the EU and that
0:20:08 > 0:20:11will be so closely aligned that you won't need to worry about the Irish
0:20:11 > 0:20:17border.What about this row over fisheries?As an aside, Scottish
0:20:17 > 0:20:21Conservative MPs are very angry the UK will not have control over its
0:20:21 > 0:20:26waters during the transition. Tonight they met the conservative
0:20:26 > 0:20:29Chief Whip and Environment Secretary Michael go. I'm told it was an
0:20:29 > 0:20:33emotional and highly charged meeting and there were passionate views.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37There was frustration they were not told, frustration and anger. But
0:20:37 > 0:20:42what they have agreed is that they cannot change what was agreed in the
0:20:42 > 0:20:45transitional fishing because it is an green, which means it cannot be
0:20:45 > 0:20:49changed but they are saying there must be very, very strong language
0:20:49 > 0:20:54and fisheries for when the UK definitively leads the European
0:20:54 > 0:20:58Union. Interestingly, different views on the cabin on this. On one
0:20:58 > 0:21:02side, those same people who love to buy into the betrayal myth. Others
0:21:02 > 0:21:07are saying those Scottish Tory MPs, they have a point.Thank you very
0:21:07 > 0:21:10much.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13Jacob Rees-Mogg is the Chair of the European Research group
0:21:13 > 0:21:14and a leading Brexiteer.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18You and other Brexiteers worked very hard to convince the fishermen they
0:21:18 > 0:21:23would be better off out. They voted for Brexit in their droves. Douglas
0:21:23 > 0:21:26Ross tonight says that deal is a bucket of cold sick. They must feel
0:21:26 > 0:21:32absolutely shafted.The Secretary of State for relevant department said
0:21:32 > 0:21:36the other day that the UK would leave the Common fisheries policy in
0:21:36 > 0:21:402019. I don't know what has happened in this very short period,
0:21:40 > 0:21:44unsatisfactory.You agree it has gone badly wrong?It is not for me
0:21:44 > 0:21:48to admit, I don't like this report at all. I make no bones about it, I
0:21:48 > 0:21:53think this is a very bad agreement, not just on fish. The only thing
0:21:53 > 0:21:58that makes it acceptable is the hope it is leading to a proper Brexit at
0:21:58 > 0:22:02the end of 2020.It is a well saying that...This agreement gives oil
0:22:02 > 0:22:05most everything and it is hard to see what the government has got in
0:22:05 > 0:22:10return.All that stuff now an green that you can't take back you think
0:22:10 > 0:22:15big misses?Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.It has been
0:22:15 > 0:22:19signed off, hasn't it?There is a process, nothing is agreed until
0:22:19 > 0:22:22everything is agreed. There is an important part of this because there
0:22:22 > 0:22:27is a stage in the negotiations and if the government isn't satisfied
0:22:27 > 0:22:31with things at a later stage, then it can pull back on things it has
0:22:31 > 0:22:35previously agreed. That has been set out very clearly throughout the
0:22:35 > 0:22:41negotiations. Now, when you look at the bits in green, so far it looks
0:22:41 > 0:22:44like concessions from the British government without counter
0:22:44 > 0:22:49concessions in return.That is all you see? The UK giving up ground and
0:22:49 > 0:22:53getting nothing back?Someone said to me that government rolled over
0:22:53 > 0:22:59but hadn't even had its tummy tickled. The question then is what
0:22:59 > 0:23:03is the end state? Many of us can swallow a good deal that is
0:23:03 > 0:23:07unsatisfactory in the transition, if it leads to a proper Brexit in the
0:23:07 > 0:23:12end.OK, let me look at the Northern Ireland border question Nick just
0:23:12 > 0:23:16raised. Theresa May is prepared to stand by what you already didn't
0:23:16 > 0:23:21like in December, in other words, if there is no deal, then the UK will
0:23:21 > 0:23:24remain fully aligned and those, particularly on those three things,
0:23:24 > 0:23:30in the EU's understanding on everything, fully aligned with EU
0:23:30 > 0:23:32rules supporting North-South co-operation. In other words, if
0:23:32 > 0:23:36there is no deal we all remain aligned in the EU.What that is
0:23:36 > 0:23:40saying is we would stay in the EU, still in the customs union and
0:23:40 > 0:23:43single market at least those parts that related to the Belfast
0:23:43 > 0:23:48agreement.Does that make no deal less attractive to you?No, no deal
0:23:48 > 0:23:56means no deal.Not if she says it goes back to what we signed in
0:23:56 > 0:23:59December?In an earlier paragraph it said nothing is agreed until
0:23:59 > 0:24:03everything is agreed. Then in a later paragraph, that if nothing was
0:24:03 > 0:24:07agreed that and they would agree this. What you have to ask, which
0:24:07 > 0:24:12hasn't been made clear, is which of those two paragraphs takes
0:24:12 > 0:24:15precedence, the earlier one that says nothing is agreed until
0:24:15 > 0:24:19everything is agreed or the later one? I would take the
0:24:19 > 0:24:23interpretation, and when it comes to votes in parliament would vote
0:24:23 > 0:24:27accordingly, that the primary paragraph is superior.It does look
0:24:27 > 0:24:33like you are being boxed in. It looks like the PM has found a way of
0:24:33 > 0:24:38making no deal look much less attractive to you then let's call a
0:24:38 > 0:24:42medium soft Brexit.It's not a question of being boxed in from my
0:24:42 > 0:24:46point of view, it's a question of whether the government is going to
0:24:46 > 0:24:48deliver on the referendum result that we leave the European Union.
0:24:48 > 0:24:53The government has been very generous, offering 35- £40 billion
0:24:53 > 0:24:57and want in return a trade deal. That is very beneficial to the
0:24:57 > 0:25:01European Union. They're in mind, without our money, for the final 21
0:25:01 > 0:25:05months in the financial framework, the EU is insolvent. People say what
0:25:05 > 0:25:10plans have we made for no deal? What plans have the EU made for no deal
0:25:10 > 0:25:13question about what has it set to remaining Bulgaru or Poland about
0:25:13 > 0:25:19the funding it won't get if the UK's deal doesn't come through.In terms
0:25:19 > 0:25:22of where your loyalties lie, at one point you thought of no deal would
0:25:22 > 0:25:28be a better way to proceed because the WTO regulations were taken back
0:25:28 > 0:25:32to zero tariffs.I have no qualms about no deal.You would still
0:25:32 > 0:25:33embrace from?
0:25:38 > 0:25:43The Prime Minister said it has... Could you vote for no deal?The
0:25:43 > 0:25:46Prime Minister said no deal is better than a bad deal, in her
0:25:46 > 0:25:50Mansion House speech just a week or so ago.So the worst deal looks, the
0:25:50 > 0:25:55happier you are to just walk away and sites, we are better off?I do
0:25:55 > 0:25:58like this transition Dilbert as I said earlier, it is acceptable in
0:25:58 > 0:26:03the event that the ends deal is good. But on its own, this
0:26:03 > 0:26:04transition deal is deeply unsatisfactory and the government
0:26:04 > 0:26:11has given way onto much.Thank you.
0:26:11 > 0:26:15Earlier this month, Chris Cook and Lucinda Day brought
0:26:15 > 0:26:17you an excluisve on bullying and harassment of parliamentary
0:26:17 > 0:26:21clerks at the hands of MPs in the House of Commons.
0:26:21 > 0:26:23Tonight, the House of Commons has agreed to an inquiry
0:26:23 > 0:26:24into their findings.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27Chris is here now.
0:26:27 > 0:26:33What has been going on today?This afternoon there was a meeting, the
0:26:33 > 0:26:36House of Commons commission, the governing body of the House of
0:26:36 > 0:26:40Commons corporately. It's mostly MPs and a few other people. They agreed
0:26:40 > 0:26:45there should be an inquiry. They also agreed it should be run
0:26:45 > 0:26:47independently, and the terms of reference that that inquiry are
0:26:47 > 0:26:55going to be set by the two members of the House of Commons commission
0:26:55 > 0:27:01who are not parliamentarians, so people have confidence in it. The
0:27:01 > 0:27:05thing is, there is a big question about what the remit is going to be
0:27:05 > 0:27:08on the really big question comes from what they will do if they
0:27:08 > 0:27:11uncover a large body of evidence about one MP in particular. Let's
0:27:11 > 0:27:15say they get five people who come forward and they have had problems
0:27:15 > 0:27:18with this MP. They look into that case and can understand the system
0:27:18 > 0:27:21and how it does or doesn't work at the moment and then they have to
0:27:21 > 0:27:28come to a conclusion about what should have been done. Will they
0:27:28 > 0:27:31tell us they have gathered all this information about the MP or will it
0:27:31 > 0:27:33be kept secret? Last week in Parliament Andrea Leadsom said there
0:27:33 > 0:27:36wouldn't be individual investigations into individual MPs,
0:27:36 > 0:27:39which made it sound like they would come to broad conclusions but not
0:27:39 > 0:27:42name names. Frankly, that won't be good enough for staff who are
0:27:42 > 0:27:46worried this will be used to sweep it under the carpet.That has been
0:27:46 > 0:27:51no response so far?We need to know what is going to happen at this
0:27:51 > 0:27:54inquiry concluded an MP is a bad person and needs to be dealt with,
0:27:54 > 0:28:00will it be made public will it be secret?Chris Cook, thanks.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03How does the world respond to an election that Vladimir Putin
0:28:03 > 0:28:05called, and won by a landslide, and that no one else
0:28:05 > 0:28:06really believes in.
0:28:06 > 0:28:10Certainly there was no official opposition.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13And certainly the 70 plus percentage share of the vote suggests the work
0:28:13 > 0:28:16of a leader who never really doubted he would remain Presidnet.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19The big question perhaps is how the world reacts to a man who has
0:28:19 > 0:28:22continued to seize power in a country that silenced dissent.
0:28:22 > 0:28:23Should they congratulate him?
0:28:23 > 0:28:24Should they freeze him out?
0:28:24 > 0:28:25A muted reaction so far.
0:28:25 > 0:28:31Mark Urban assess the options for the West now.
0:28:35 > 0:28:41Back in the 1870s when Britain and Russia asked friend or foe about
0:28:41 > 0:28:44their future relationship they did so from a position of relative
0:28:44 > 0:28:49equality.
0:28:51 > 0:28:55equality. But as Vladimir Putin celebrates an election victory that
0:28:55 > 0:29:00propels him into a fourth 6- year term he is consolidating his already
0:29:00 > 0:29:07dominant position. One of his cheerleaders, the editor of RT said
0:29:07 > 0:29:12Russians would not now allow a change of leaders.In some ways he
0:29:12 > 0:29:17has trapped himself, boxed himself in. Because he is now very much seen
0:29:17 > 0:29:21as the founder of modern Russia. He certainly has been in power for the
0:29:21 > 0:29:25majority of time Russia has been an independent country after the
0:29:25 > 0:29:29collapse of the Soviet Union. And at this point it is not even clear how
0:29:29 > 0:29:39to have a successor to someone seen in this very Tsarist way.Sub other
0:29:39 > 0:29:44common consensus he has grown and how Manning on with sanctions would
0:29:44 > 0:29:49be as one person put it like mud wrestling a gorilla. Instead British
0:29:49 > 0:29:53mandarins are resigned to the power realities of the situation.We've
0:29:53 > 0:29:59got Putin for another six years and we can't deny he is popular with his
0:29:59 > 0:30:04people. One can doubt how fair the election was but he has a real
0:30:04 > 0:30:10following in Russia, he won't change his spots, we know how he operates,
0:30:10 > 0:30:13this I win, you lose approach to international affairs will go on. We
0:30:13 > 0:30:18will have to continue to deal with an aggressive Russia.And if that
0:30:18 > 0:30:23isn't tough enough to swallow one of Putin 's campaign staff thanked
0:30:23 > 0:30:26Britain saying its response to the Sergei Skripal poisoning had got the
0:30:26 > 0:30:32turnout up just when we needed it. Putin seems like he's very much on a
0:30:32 > 0:30:37trajectory to confront the West, this is the defining foreign policy
0:30:37 > 0:30:42and I don't see it changing any time soon. I see the relationship between
0:30:42 > 0:30:46the West, Europe the United States and Russia, staying relatively the
0:30:46 > 0:30:51same progressively worse.But there are areas where it is hard for him
0:30:51 > 0:30:57to hit back in kind or harder. There are large amounts of Russian Private
0:30:57 > 0:31:00cash in London which is why tomorrow's National Security Council
0:31:00 > 0:31:04meeting could spell at further measures against those who cannot
0:31:04 > 0:31:08explain this wealth.My own strong feeling is we have to show the
0:31:08 > 0:31:12Russians as a result of this case that they can't go on behaving like
0:31:12 > 0:31:17this and expect to be treated as a responsible country. One of the
0:31:17 > 0:31:21opportunities we have to send that message is the fact that the City of
0:31:21 > 0:31:25London has an awful lot of Russian money. Some of it no doubt entirely
0:31:25 > 0:31:30legitimate, some of it no doubt extremely doubtful, put there by
0:31:30 > 0:31:34people around Putin. So let's use that opportunity to send a very,
0:31:34 > 0:31:39very strong message.Phase two of Britain's response to Russia made
0:31:39 > 0:31:43then be more of a whimper than a bank but on a day that international
0:31:43 > 0:31:47investigators were heading for Salisbury and the police said it was
0:31:47 > 0:31:51likely the inquiry would go on for months, none of this is going away
0:31:51 > 0:31:59soon. That was Mark Bourbon.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04Earlier I spoke to Ksenia Sobchak, a Russian reality TV
0:32:04 > 0:32:04personality-turned-politician who stood as liberal protest
0:32:04 > 0:32:06candidate in Sunday's presidential election.
0:32:06 > 0:32:08I put it to her that - should Putin complete this
0:32:08 > 0:32:10next term in office - he'd be Russia's longest-serving
0:32:10 > 0:32:12leader since Stalin.
0:32:12 > 0:32:15If he completes this term he will be the longest serving leader since
0:32:15 > 0:32:18Stalin in Russia.
0:32:18 > 0:32:20That's true, that's very sad.
0:32:20 > 0:32:26I'm actually, I'm in a very bad mood from yesterday.
0:32:26 > 0:32:34Today we're trying, you know, to be a team together
0:32:34 > 0:32:37and to discuss our campaign but, you know, the mood is really
0:32:37 > 0:32:38not good, to be honest.
0:32:38 > 0:32:39You ran against him.
0:32:39 > 0:32:41I wonder if you regret doing that?
0:32:41 > 0:32:45You gave him, Navalny said, credibility by doing that.
0:32:45 > 0:32:47No.
0:32:47 > 0:32:50I mean, you can see how we discussed things with Navalny yesterday
0:32:50 > 0:32:57and actually I was very disappointed by this talk with Alexei Navalny.
0:32:57 > 0:33:03He invited me to debates and I was there because I am not
0:33:03 > 0:33:06afraid to meet with Navalny or with Putin, but if Navalny
0:33:06 > 0:33:13would be permitted, Putin have the same kind of credibility,
0:33:13 > 0:33:15even more, so...
0:33:15 > 0:33:18You must respect, you must accept that while Putin is in power
0:33:18 > 0:33:24there is now no effective opposition, is that true?
0:33:24 > 0:33:25I will be trying to be effective opposition.
0:33:25 > 0:33:31We are forming a party with Dmitry Gudkov, he's
0:33:31 > 0:33:33an opposition figure from the protests of 2011.
0:33:33 > 0:33:39He did a huge job on the deputies voting in Moscow, so we're forming
0:33:39 > 0:33:41a new power that I hope will represent young, innovative
0:33:41 > 0:33:49Russians who want change here.
0:33:49 > 0:33:51Let me ask your question very to British audiences'
0:33:51 > 0:33:52hearts this evening.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54Our Prime Minister, as you know, has pointed the finger
0:33:54 > 0:33:57at President Putin over the poisoning of a Russian man
0:33:57 > 0:33:59who is a former spy in Britain.
0:33:59 > 0:34:07Do you believe Putin was behind that?
0:34:15 > 0:34:16Look, this is actually a very interesting point,
0:34:16 > 0:34:19because, you know, I really, I very much respect,
0:34:19 > 0:34:21I have very much respect for the Justice in London,
0:34:21 > 0:34:24and I know that many people, from all over the world,
0:34:24 > 0:34:26they come to Great Britain because they know how
0:34:26 > 0:34:28independent your court system is.
0:34:28 > 0:34:33And I think that after 24 hours, to make such conclusions,
0:34:33 > 0:34:37is really something that breaks this independence of all the system,
0:34:37 > 0:34:40where you have to go to to make a huge investigation and then come
0:34:40 > 0:34:47to the court and then do all those things,
0:34:47 > 0:34:50so the answer, my answer is - I don't know.
0:34:50 > 0:34:58Maybe Theresa May is right.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02Maybe she's wrong, but in any way in such an old democracy
0:35:02 > 0:35:05like Great Britain, Theresa May should not behave herself
0:35:05 > 0:35:08like Mr Putin does.
0:35:08 > 0:35:10I mean, you can't answer to our autocratic person by doing
0:35:10 > 0:35:14the same kind of things.
0:35:14 > 0:35:21You can't say in one day that it's only Russia who is in charge,
0:35:21 > 0:35:23because even if it's like this, there should be a huge,
0:35:23 > 0:35:28profound investigation.
0:35:28 > 0:35:33I'm really actually surprised that this hasn't been done yet,
0:35:33 > 0:35:35but already such accusations appeared and already many people
0:35:35 > 0:35:38maybe would lose their possibility to go and study in Great Britain,
0:35:38 > 0:35:40many Russians would lose the possibility to get visas.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43I mean, Russia is not right in many cases,
0:35:43 > 0:35:46but Great Britain should not behave in the same kind of manner.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48This would bring us to end, to nothing.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51I mean, someone should be wiser and I hope that Great Britain can be
0:35:51 > 0:35:59wise and can be really profound on the investigation.
0:36:01 > 0:36:02OK, Ksenia Sobchak, thank you very much.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Joining me now Dr Javier Solana, former Secretary general of Nato,
0:36:05 > 0:36:09and formerly the EU's top foreign policy chief.
0:36:09 > 0:36:15Very nice to see you, you heard there from the opposition candidate,
0:36:15 > 0:36:20I wonder whether you agree that Britain, has been, as an old
0:36:20 > 0:36:24democracy, slightly too hasty to point the finger directly at Russia?
0:36:24 > 0:36:29It is very difficult to answer that, not being a British citizen. But it
0:36:29 > 0:36:36seems to me that it has two condemn what has happened in this recent
0:36:36 > 0:36:40period of time, it is not the first time it happened on your territory
0:36:40 > 0:36:46but it seems to me to use the terminology of the use of force,
0:36:46 > 0:36:51unlawful use of force has been the terminology used by the United
0:36:51 > 0:36:57Kingdom, is pretty close to... Use of force... It's too heavy
0:36:57 > 0:37:03formulation, I think.Do you think it is irresponsible to use that
0:37:03 > 0:37:12phrase?I wouldn't say irresponsible but it's too close to other
0:37:12 > 0:37:16terminology applied which I don't think anyone wants.So how do you
0:37:16 > 0:37:21react to something that looks like not a one-off but part of a whole
0:37:21 > 0:37:34sequel.I think you have to react to who is making the definition of a
0:37:34 > 0:37:39crime, a dramatic crime, terrible crime...A crime with no diplomatic
0:37:39 > 0:37:44effect?A crime with diplomatic effects, which has to be dealt with
0:37:44 > 0:37:47by appealing to the convention of chemical weapons were investigating
0:37:47 > 0:37:52can be done. Where Russia doesn't have the power of veto, therefore
0:37:52 > 0:38:02they have to go in and deal with the situation. And at the same time, do
0:38:02 > 0:38:06something that may be possible against people that are very close
0:38:06 > 0:38:13to President Putin...So what would that mean?You can use your
0:38:13 > 0:38:22capabilities as a government to look at current accounts from many
0:38:22 > 0:38:29people...Frees rich Russians?It is very damaging for Putin and Putin 's
0:38:29 > 0:38:36friends. I think there is reaction -- this reaction that we have had of
0:38:36 > 0:38:40taking diplomats out and bringing diplomats in etc, it is something
0:38:40 > 0:38:47that hasn't been... It isn't going to affect your country or the
0:38:47 > 0:38:52European Union.We are one day after a landslide election which no one
0:38:52 > 0:38:57outside Russia or within Russia may be recognises as an election. Putin
0:38:57 > 0:39:02will soon have been in power as long as Stalin and yet the West has
0:39:02 > 0:39:07accepted him and invited him in as a legitimate president. They too
0:39:07 > 0:39:12frightened of him?I don't think anyone has congratulated him, that I
0:39:12 > 0:39:16know of, by the European Union.They haven't frozen him out, he's still a
0:39:16 > 0:39:23member of the G7 the G8. A meeting of the G7 and the G8 is no longer
0:39:23 > 0:39:27meeting, it doesn't exist any longer, news a number of
0:39:27 > 0:39:31international organisations, cannot avoid that, it is an important
0:39:31 > 0:39:35power. The fundamental question behind that is, is the West too
0:39:35 > 0:39:41scared? Look at nature which seems to have failed time after time,
0:39:41 > 0:39:46whether when it was a cyber attack on Estonia or incursions into Crimea
0:39:46 > 0:39:51or murders on British soil, as we now think, doesn't there, point
0:39:51 > 0:39:58where Nato is to stand up and be counted?I think Nato is counted,
0:39:58 > 0:40:00and is counted today, counted yesterday and will be counted
0:40:00 > 0:40:04tomorrow. But counted doesn't mean you have to act in a military
0:40:04 > 0:40:09manner. I don't think we, anybody, would like to have a confrontation
0:40:09 > 0:40:17with Russia in a military front. It's an absurd situation right now.
0:40:17 > 0:40:23Therefore we have to do to be tough, to take important decisions on
0:40:23 > 0:40:28things which
0:40:28 > 0:40:30things which are not preventing us from having some kind of
0:40:30 > 0:40:35relationship with Russia. And at the same time be very careful not to
0:40:35 > 0:40:41step up attention which may lead when nobody wants to go. The
0:40:41 > 0:40:45situation today in the world is very complicated.Let me ask you one
0:40:45 > 0:40:50question before we speak about Brexit, Jacob Rees-Mogg just said in
0:40:50 > 0:40:55his eyes, with the Brexiteer so far the UK has conceded everything and
0:40:55 > 0:41:01the EU has conceded nothing, is that how it seems to you?No, on this
0:41:01 > 0:41:05subject of course not. We have been in great solidarity with the United
0:41:05 > 0:41:13Kingdom. It has nothing to do with Brexit, we will continue...The
0:41:13 > 0:41:17Brexiteer?It's been a good agreement. I honestly think what has
0:41:17 > 0:41:21happened today is a good agreement and has to be considered like that.
0:41:21 > 0:41:26Time is ahead of us and we have to see what may happen at a later
0:41:26 > 0:41:32moment but for the moment it's the first day that the step has been
0:41:32 > 0:41:34taken and an agreement moving forward.Dr Javier Solana, thank you
0:41:34 > 0:41:36for coming in.
0:41:36 > 0:41:37That's it for tonight.
0:41:37 > 0:41:39Quick message to whoever's tweaking the road signs
0:41:39 > 0:41:41on the A4130 in Oxford - stop it at once.
0:41:41 > 0:41:44We leave you with the originals, AND how they look now.
0:41:44 > 0:41:52Goodnight.