0:00:11 > 0:00:13It's been one year since terror hit the streets of Westminster
0:00:13 > 0:00:15and five people lost their lives.
0:00:15 > 0:00:16The attack confounded security services.
0:00:16 > 0:00:17Who was the perpetrator?
0:00:17 > 0:00:23Had he worked alone?
0:00:23 > 0:00:25Tonight, an extended Newsnight investigation brings
0:00:25 > 0:00:28you significant new information about who he radicalized,
0:00:28 > 0:00:36and why he acted when he did.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40-- on how he was radicalised.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42What's going to be our next move against Russia?
0:00:42 > 0:00:45The Prime Minister will address the our relationship with Russia
0:00:45 > 0:00:48at the EU summit tomorrow, and she won't be holding back.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52EU leaders will be warned by the Prime Minister that they are all
0:00:52 > 0:00:57under threat from Russia, but will they listen?
0:00:57 > 0:00:58Also tonight, a status update from Mark Zuckerberg
0:00:58 > 0:01:03on Facebook's data breach.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05We'll ask if the social media giant is doing enough
0:01:05 > 0:01:08to salvage its reputation.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13Good evening.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15One year ago a 52-year-old British man,
0:01:15 > 0:01:17Khalid Masood, brought terror to the heart of Westminster.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19More than 50 people were injured, five were killed.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21Tomorrow the lives of PC Keith Palmer, Kurt Cochran,
0:01:21 > 0:01:23Aysha Frade, Leslie Rhodes and Andreea Cristea
0:01:23 > 0:01:31will be remembered at a memorial service.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34The man behind the attack was out to hit the seat
0:01:34 > 0:01:41of British democracy,
0:01:41 > 0:01:43driving a vehicle into pedestrians along the Bridge
0:01:43 > 0:01:44before attempting to enter Parliament itself.
0:01:44 > 0:01:46But he didn't fit the typical profile.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48We were told he acted alone.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52That police were baffled by his motivation.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55Tonight, in an extended film and investigation
0:01:55 > 0:01:57Newsnight reports on who he was
0:01:57 > 0:02:02and how he was radicalised.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04Richard Watson and producer Maria Polhofska have worked
0:02:04 > 0:02:06on this report which contains images of the attack some may
0:02:06 > 0:02:09find distressing.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12London, 22nd of March last year.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Khalid Masood floors the accelerator of his 4x4,
0:02:14 > 0:02:19mounting the pavement on Westminster Bridge.
0:02:19 > 0:02:26Watch the highlighted circle, the car was his murder weapon.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28This wasn't a random attack.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32This was an individual who'd been an extremist for many, many years,
0:02:32 > 0:02:38whose pattern of behaviour over many, many years
0:02:38 > 0:02:42was characteristic of many Islamist extremists that we see.
0:02:42 > 0:02:48Minutes earlier,
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Masood had sent a document to his Whatsapp messaging group,
0:02:50 > 0:02:51justifying his terrorist attack.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55It was called "Retaliation".
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Three people were killed outright on the bridge,
0:02:57 > 0:03:02one died later in hospital.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05Newsnight has learned it could have been even worse.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08Security sources have told Newsnight
0:03:08 > 0:03:11that these barriers saved 25-30 lives of the day of the attack,
0:03:11 > 0:03:15and that's because Khalid Masood's car was forced off the pavement
0:03:15 > 0:03:22and onto the road at the start of the barriers,
0:03:22 > 0:03:26he drove along here and then cut back into the pavement
0:03:26 > 0:03:28at the end of the barriers,
0:03:28 > 0:03:30crashing the car over there on the left.
0:03:30 > 0:03:31My God!
0:03:31 > 0:03:33Seconds later, he jumped out of his car armed with two knives,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36ran down here through a barrier leading to the Palace of Westminster
0:03:36 > 0:03:37and stabbed PC Palmer.
0:03:37 > 0:03:39A plainclothes protection officer shot Masood dead,
0:03:39 > 0:03:42but PC Palmer was mortally wounded.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53There was an awful lot of blood loss.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55We had a pulse at that point, which I was pleased about,
0:03:55 > 0:03:59because I thought absolutely we can keep him alive.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03Tobias Ellwood MP, seen here kneeling next to PC Palmer,
0:04:03 > 0:04:08used his army medical training,
0:04:08 > 0:04:09chest compressions, mouth-to-mouth resuscitation,
0:04:09 > 0:04:12in a desperate effort to keep him alive.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14Eventually doctors said, OK, I think we're just
0:04:14 > 0:04:18going to have to call it,
0:04:18 > 0:04:26and I remember looking at him and saying,
0:04:27 > 0:04:30"You're going to have to tell me to stop, Sir,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33because otherwise I'm going to keep doing this."
0:04:33 > 0:04:36And he just said, "Sir, you've done your best,
0:04:36 > 0:04:38we've all done our best here, I call the time of death."
0:04:38 > 0:04:40I do recall the silence.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43The doctors and all the medics and the entire team then moved away
0:04:43 > 0:04:46with all their equipment and I was left there with a couple
0:04:46 > 0:04:48of the original policeman, who by this time were very,
0:04:48 > 0:04:50very upset because it was their colleague.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54It was very eerie to be able to hear the leaves in the trees and sounds
0:04:54 > 0:04:56you're not normally familiar with at all but not a single
0:04:56 > 0:04:58movement of traffic, not a horn,
0:04:58 > 0:05:00not anybody speaking, no shouts, nothing whatsoever.
0:05:00 > 0:05:08To be in front of his body, when everybody else then disbursed,
0:05:08 > 0:05:13and then it was up to us to, in a dignified way,
0:05:13 > 0:05:14cover the body up
0:05:14 > 0:05:16and then wait for the forensics to turn up,
0:05:16 > 0:05:19because of course this was now a murder scene.
0:05:19 > 0:05:20Look, here. From here?
0:05:20 > 0:05:21Yeah.
0:05:21 > 0:05:29Masood had murdered five people in an attack lasting 90 seconds.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33The first of a series of terrorist attacks
0:05:33 > 0:05:35that killed 36 people last spring.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37A year later, approaching the anniversary of the attacks,
0:05:37 > 0:05:39Newsnight has been investigating Khalid Masood and his connections
0:05:39 > 0:05:46to UK extremists,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48searching for clues that might help explain his murderous rampage.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51We have significant new information.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54There is a widely-held belief that this was the work
0:05:54 > 0:05:56of one crazed individual, a so-called lone actor.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59While it's true that Masood was not part of a terrorist cell,
0:05:59 > 0:06:07he's had contact with extremist terrorists over the past 13 years.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15We started by looking at his links to drugs and violent crime.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17A source in Eastbourne, where he once lived,
0:06:17 > 0:06:19told us he was using crack cocaine in the '90s.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21He was dealing drugs and could be extremely violent.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24He'd already been convicted of stabbing a man in the face
0:06:24 > 0:06:25in 2000 in East Sussex,
0:06:25 > 0:06:28and later, in another attack, when he got out of prison,
0:06:28 > 0:06:35he stabbed his friend.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37Full on punched me, stabbed me straight in the face.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41Put me straight on the floor.
0:06:41 > 0:06:43I've turned round to try to get up,
0:06:43 > 0:06:49and he's trying to stab me in the back.
0:06:49 > 0:06:55Most Islamic extremists
0:06:55 > 0:06:59that we've come across in the last five or ten years
0:06:59 > 0:07:01have had a history of criminality,
0:07:01 > 0:07:02most of them are criminals,
0:07:02 > 0:07:05and many of them have got a history of violence as well,
0:07:05 > 0:07:07and violent criminality.
0:07:07 > 0:07:08Masood, then Adrian Ajao,
0:07:08 > 0:07:10is thought to have converted to Islam while in prison.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14Freed in 2003, he chose to live in a succession of places which have
0:07:14 > 0:07:16been extremism hotspots in the UK.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18They were all strongholds of the Islamist group
0:07:18 > 0:07:24I've investigated for nearly 20 years, al-Muhajiroun.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26This is a proscribed organisation in this country,
0:07:26 > 0:07:29a proscribed terror organisation but it takes root in certain parts
0:07:29 > 0:07:36of certain communities,
0:07:36 > 0:07:40and Khalid Masood moved from one area to another
0:07:40 > 0:07:42where there was activity by al-Muhajiroun.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45It was in Crawley in 2004 that he came up on the security
0:07:45 > 0:07:46services' radar for the first time.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50The town was at the centre of a plot using fertiliser,
0:07:50 > 0:07:52stored here, to make home-made bombs to blow up nightclubs
0:07:52 > 0:07:54and bars in the south-east.
0:07:54 > 0:07:55Masood's telephone number
0:07:55 > 0:07:57was on the contacts list of someone MI5 was investigating.
0:07:57 > 0:08:05But he was on the periphery and wasn't investigated.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Does a detail in the public records provide a clue to his militant
0:08:13 > 0:08:14Islamist mindset back then?
0:08:14 > 0:08:16In 2004, Khalid Masood married his second wife,
0:08:16 > 0:08:19Farzana Malik, at this registry office in Medway, in Kent.
0:08:19 > 0:08:20I've got the certificate here,
0:08:20 > 0:08:22and the date on it is very interesting indeed.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24The marriage took place on the anniversary of the 9/11
0:08:24 > 0:08:26attacks on New York,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29the 11th of September, 2004.
0:08:29 > 0:08:35We asked a former Jihadist
0:08:35 > 0:08:41who infiltrated Al-Qaeda
0:08:41 > 0:08:44and spied on the group for Britain's secret intelligence service MI6
0:08:44 > 0:08:46what he made of the choice of date.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49Well, I mean, that is rather shocking, and most likely speaks
0:08:49 > 0:08:51volumes of how he viewed that particular anniversary.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53So most likely he thought it was a joyous day.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55He is not the only one, unfortunately there are legions
0:08:55 > 0:09:04of people who believe basically it was a joyous day.
0:09:09 > 0:09:15From 2005 to 2009, Masood spent time in Saudi Arabia, teaching English.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17First in Yanbu
0:09:17 > 0:09:19and then at the government's aviation school in Jeddah.
0:09:19 > 0:09:24This man knows some of his fellow students from those days.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26Based on what the students who attended his classes,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29now they are professionals in the aviation industry
0:09:29 > 0:09:32in Saudi Arabia,
0:09:32 > 0:09:35they describe someone who was more on the path
0:09:35 > 0:09:36of radicalism, in a sense.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39He was serious, he wasn't someone who would describe the Saudi society
0:09:39 > 0:09:41as a true Islamic society.
0:09:41 > 0:09:50He would say
0:09:54 > 0:09:56that there are many things about the Saudi
0:09:56 > 0:09:57society that was wrong.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Especially the path they are taking in terms of modernity.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02When he was living in Jeddah, British intelligence suspected
0:10:02 > 0:10:04Masood was helping extremists join Al-Qaeda in the Federally
0:10:04 > 0:10:05Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07In London, MI5 later assessed Masood had been
0:10:07 > 0:10:08misidentified, they'd got the wrong man.
0:10:08 > 0:10:10Meanwhile, in Saudi,
0:10:10 > 0:10:12his students saw a man who was ultraconservative.
0:10:12 > 0:10:17They were worried, basically,
0:10:17 > 0:10:19that he was really more conservative Muslim
0:10:19 > 0:10:27than Saudi conservatives themselves!
0:10:28 > 0:10:34There was no doubt that he was a Salafist. But he went even beyond
0:10:34 > 0:10:41that.On his return to the UK, new moved to Luton. He taught English at
0:10:41 > 0:10:49the private language school, here at the Britannia Centre. -- he moved to
0:10:49 > 0:10:54Luton. At the time it was owned and run by trustees of the is lamb
0:10:54 > 0:11:00mosque.Part-time teacher, would come there, would disappear,
0:11:00 > 0:11:04pleasant person to talk to.Luton Islamic State wallows fundamentalist
0:11:04 > 0:11:13Salafist teachings and so did Khalid Masood.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16But the Imam has had street confrontations with al-Muhajiroun in
0:11:16 > 0:11:21the town, and has said that if the lead Masuda had shown any signs of
0:11:21 > 0:11:26supporting the group he would have into means that he would have
0:11:26 > 0:11:31intervened.If he had the slightest indication that he was adopting
0:11:31 > 0:11:35radical beliefs, we would deal with it on the spot, we would not give it
0:11:35 > 0:11:40the opportunity to fester grow.Did Luton or the mosque or the
0:11:40 > 0:11:43organisation have anything to do with his radicalisation?Absolutely
0:11:43 > 0:11:49not, absolutely not, if you look at where we come from, and you study
0:11:49 > 0:11:55Luton Islamic State, we are the forefront of refuting extremism.But
0:11:55 > 0:11:59security sources have told Newsnight that the lead Masuda was associating
0:11:59 > 0:12:04with extremists in Luton, once again, picked up on MI5's radar
0:12:04 > 0:12:09because he was in contact with these men, convicted of plotting a terror
0:12:09 > 0:12:16attack on a Territorial Army base in the town. Khalid Masood lived a few
0:12:16 > 0:12:20streets away from the plotters, at this point, MI5 still classified him
0:12:20 > 0:12:26as a subject of interest, but his file was closed in October, 2012,
0:12:26 > 0:12:31occurs there was no evidence that he posed a direct threat the UK.He was
0:12:31 > 0:12:35coming in and out, if you like, the surveillance that was going on at
0:12:35 > 0:12:39the time, it would not mean that he was caught, and that he was plotting
0:12:39 > 0:12:44as such, but he may well have had awareness of those who were
0:12:44 > 0:12:49plotting. -- it would not mean that he was core. He would be cognisant
0:12:49 > 0:12:53of what was being planned and talked about. He was well-known, but prior
0:12:53 > 0:12:59to Westminster, he had never been a central figure in the conspiracy to
0:12:59 > 0:13:03carry out a terrorist attack. SHOUTING
0:13:03 > 0:13:10Between 2012 and 2016, Masood was in contact with al-Muhajiroun
0:13:10 > 0:13:14supporters who were being actively investigated by MI5. He expressed
0:13:14 > 0:13:20support for 9/11. MI5 has said that neither of those facts warranted
0:13:20 > 0:13:27reopening the investigation into him. In 2016, he was living in
0:13:27 > 0:13:31Birmingham, with his third wife. Masood is believed to have been
0:13:31 > 0:13:36running a private tutoring business here. He joined an established
0:13:36 > 0:13:40Salafist community but was already planning his next move, this time,
0:13:40 > 0:13:46overseas, to Saudi Arabia. In May, 2016, we understand that he was
0:13:46 > 0:13:49stopped from travelling to Jeddah, to start a new job, could this have
0:13:49 > 0:13:54been the trigger for the attack? Is this why he called his farewell
0:13:54 > 0:13:59document Retaliation? New research suggests denial of travel can be a
0:13:59 > 0:14:05key risk factor for terror attacks. He was in touch with a
0:14:05 > 0:14:09transportation company, in Jeddah, in Saudi Arabia, which specialises
0:14:09 > 0:14:13in transporting pilgrims who are visiting Mecca, Medina, the holy
0:14:13 > 0:14:20cities. Why did the Saudi authorities refused his work Visa?
0:14:20 > 0:14:22We understand... The understanding, based on the confidential source
0:14:22 > 0:14:28from Saudi Arabia, the understanding is that his name was on a list
0:14:28 > 0:14:31provided, without saying who provided the list, but it was
0:14:31 > 0:14:37provided to them.By British intelligence, I would imagine?Most
0:14:37 > 0:14:44likely, most likely it was provided by the authorities here.A key
0:14:44 > 0:14:49question, then, for the police and MI5, was Saudi Arabia his end
0:14:49 > 0:14:53destination or did Masood have an ambition to go to a jihadist Theatre
0:14:53 > 0:14:59of war? Counterterrorism sources say they found no evidence that he was
0:14:59 > 0:15:03trying to fight in Syria but he had been linked to people trying to get
0:15:03 > 0:15:08to the Afghan border, in the past. If he was going to be more less in
0:15:08 > 0:15:13the service of pilgrims, coming into Mecca and Medina, that is not
0:15:13 > 0:15:19extremists me to if he was using that as a pretext to go into Syria,
0:15:19 > 0:15:27then yes, that was extreme. -- that is not extremist; if he was using
0:15:27 > 0:15:32that as a pretext, that was extreme. His Visa was refused, could that be
0:15:32 > 0:15:37significant?I think it could be significant, like many of his kind,
0:15:37 > 0:15:42like many Islamist extremists, at some stage, they often have an
0:15:42 > 0:15:49aspiration to travel to one of the theatres of, where jihadis is going
0:15:49 > 0:15:54on, whether that be in Afghanistan, in the early 2000s, or laterally,
0:15:54 > 0:15:58Islamic State, Syria and Iraq, it looks on the face of it that that
0:15:58 > 0:16:04could have been the trigger. If something is put in the way the
0:16:04 > 0:16:08aspiration go overseas. -- latterly. Then they decide to carry out an
0:16:08 > 0:16:14attack here.Research carried out by Canada's Secret Service, after two
0:16:14 > 0:16:20attacks there, lends to this theory. 100,000 intelligence reports were
0:16:20 > 0:16:25analysed, looking for factors that turn ideological extremists into
0:16:25 > 0:16:27attackers, it is called mobilisation to violence.
0:16:32 > 0:16:37I'm proud to say our work has been ground-breaking. The analysts have
0:16:37 > 0:16:41been inspired by the fact we had two attacks in Canada. We never had
0:16:41 > 0:16:45attacks like that before and they want to make sure that we were being
0:16:45 > 0:16:53as effective as possible, it was their contribution to it.In October
0:16:53 > 0:16:582014, a man deliberately mowed down soldiers in Quebec. One was killed.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01He'd had his passport seized three months before the attack. He was
0:17:01 > 0:17:06denied travel.There can be a variety of factors that lead them to
0:17:06 > 0:17:11switch parts but it is a fluid process we see a switching back and
0:17:11 > 0:17:16forth. It's not a surprise we would see them go from a denial of travel,
0:17:16 > 0:17:22where travel was the objective, to subsequently plotting an attack.
0:17:22 > 0:17:29This is so-called Islamic State's cheap propagandist. He released a
0:17:29 > 0:17:34video in 2014 telling his supporters explicitly that if you can't get to
0:17:34 > 0:17:37the caliphate, then attack at home with knives and cars. That is what
0:17:37 > 0:17:46Masood did. From his family home in this well-kept suburban estate in
0:17:46 > 0:17:51Birmingham he started downloading extremist material in 2016,
0:17:51 > 0:17:56searching so-called Islamic State and planning to travel. It is now
0:17:56 > 0:18:01believed he started to plan the Westminster bridge attack from here.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05In the months before the attack, he told his family he was planning to
0:18:05 > 0:18:10move abroad for a second time. Newsnight understands that the
0:18:10 > 0:18:13police investigation after the attack found he was on the verge of
0:18:13 > 0:18:19travelling overseas with another man. We don't know to wear. I also
0:18:19 > 0:18:23understand the police investigation suspected Masood was radicalising a
0:18:23 > 0:18:28third man, by giving him religious instruction. It seems he was making
0:18:28 > 0:18:34final preparations for the attack and in December 2016, moved into
0:18:34 > 0:18:37this small bedsit in Hackney Road, Central Birmingham. We spoke to a
0:18:37 > 0:18:44former flatmate. He was a different person, I can see
0:18:44 > 0:18:51that, because of his clothing, his beard, his style was different. He
0:18:51 > 0:18:59was wearing, always, a cloth that is just one piece from his shoulders to
0:18:59 > 0:19:09his feet. I wasn't scared of him. You weren't scared?No, because as I
0:19:09 > 0:19:19say, he was very calm. He was minding his own business, and my
0:19:19 > 0:19:22expression was... Sorry, my impression of him was he was more
0:19:22 > 0:19:28like a spiritual guide. On the 22nd of March, he thought
0:19:28 > 0:19:32Callard missed dude was in his room when the police raided hours after
0:19:32 > 0:19:46the attack.I saw a couple of police cars. I went to the stairs and I saw
0:19:46 > 0:19:54fully armoured police offers.How many, roughly?Just on the stairs
0:19:54 > 0:20:00there were four or five of them. With guns?Fully equipped, with all
0:20:00 > 0:20:07the body armour, with machine guns, with the green lasers pointing at
0:20:07 > 0:20:16me. It was like I was in a movie.It must've been massive shock?Yes,
0:20:16 > 0:20:23yes, I was in shock when I found out the guy living next to me murdered
0:20:23 > 0:20:30innocent people. The police and MI5 were racing to
0:20:30 > 0:20:36find out if Masood was part of a wider cell or if he'd entered alone.
0:20:36 > 0:20:4112 people were arrested. They were all later released without charge.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45Ultimately, the police and MI5 concluded that Masood acted alone,
0:20:45 > 0:20:51but this was not a random attack by any means. Newsnight has charted his
0:20:51 > 0:20:54long-standing connections to extremism. What triggered him to
0:20:54 > 0:20:58strike at Westminster bridge question why did he blamed the
0:20:58 > 0:21:02British state for disrupting his travel plans? It is hard to get
0:21:02 > 0:21:07inside the head of such a violent and volatile man, and
0:21:07 > 0:21:15counterterrorism experts argue his precise motivations died with him.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17Richard Watts and reporting there.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19"We have a responsibility to protect your data",
0:21:19 > 0:21:26Mark Zuckerberg shared in an update this evening.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28"And if we can't, then we don't deserve to serve you.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30I've been working to understand exactly what happened
0:21:30 > 0:21:32and how to make sure this doesn't happen again.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35The good news is that the most important actions to prevent this
0:21:35 > 0:21:40from happening again today we have already taken years ago.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42But we also made mistakes, there's more to do, and we need
0:21:42 > 0:21:47to step up and do it".
0:21:47 > 0:21:50His Chief Operating Officer at Facebook added her own statement.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51"I deeply regret we didn't do enough".
0:21:51 > 0:21:53Said Sheryl Sandberg.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55So tonight, we ask how much is enough -
0:21:55 > 0:21:57and what Facebook knew about what it had got wrong.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59Dipayan Ghosh worked for Facebook in the Privacy
0:21:59 > 0:22:02and Public Policy Team.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04He's now a fellow at the Harvard Kennedy
0:22:04 > 0:22:05School of Government.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Eileen Burbidge is a partner at Passion Capital, early stage
0:22:07 > 0:22:09tech, who previously worked at Apple.
0:22:09 > 0:22:17Lovely to have you both. Your scale of, your assessment of the scale of
0:22:17 > 0:22:20the problems now at Facebook and weather tonight's apology mitigates
0:22:20 > 0:22:30at all?It is a tremendous scale, this issue. This is a matter that is
0:22:30 > 0:22:37beyond just user privacy. Obviously, 50 million people's data, over that,
0:22:37 > 0:22:42was breached, in a sense, and this is a massive user privacy issue. It
0:22:42 > 0:22:47is also a major issue for the National security, and for the
0:22:47 > 0:22:50integrity of democratic institutions around the world.So tremendous
0:22:50 > 0:22:55scale. When you worked at Facebook in the private policy, how important
0:22:55 > 0:23:04did it feel that was to them?It's hugely important for the company.
0:23:04 > 0:23:07Privacy is the bread-and-butter for the company, and if it gets privacy
0:23:07 > 0:23:16wrong, its stock price drops. There is a direct correlation there, as we
0:23:16 > 0:23:22had seen. It is the company's responsibility to protect user
0:23:22 > 0:23:29privacy. In this case, there were certain breaches and I think the
0:23:29 > 0:23:33company needs to assess what has happened and try to take positive
0:23:33 > 0:23:38action going forward.Do you understand how they let it happen?
0:23:38 > 0:23:43If it's as important as you say, how did they allow an academic to
0:23:43 > 0:23:46download those apps without any checks and balances to see how
0:23:46 > 0:23:55widely they were being shared?Well, I think this is a very difficult
0:23:55 > 0:23:59situation, because academics are always clamouring to get access to
0:23:59 > 0:24:06the data that tech companies hold. Facebook's data is, of course,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09extremely valuable for academic study and to the extent the company
0:24:09 > 0:24:14can be transparent about it. It is a net positive for society. In this
0:24:14 > 0:24:22case, the academic clearly breached his policy with the company and that
0:24:22 > 0:24:25is a tremendously egregious action. That is what has been reported, at
0:24:25 > 0:24:30least.So who do you think made the biggest breach of trust in all of
0:24:30 > 0:24:39this? Who has let down who the most? Well, I think that what we have do
0:24:39 > 0:24:44remember here is that Facebook operates no differently from any
0:24:44 > 0:24:49other major Internat company, Google, Twitter, Snapchat. The
0:24:49 > 0:24:53entire industry operates on the premise that we collect a lot of
0:24:53 > 0:24:59data, were going to try and monetise that in the digital advertising
0:24:59 > 0:25:02ecosystem. So I don't see the practices of this particular company
0:25:02 > 0:25:07is any different to any other. I think what we really need to try and
0:25:07 > 0:25:11understand is the checks and balances that companies like
0:25:11 > 0:25:15Facebook Place an academics and other third parties they share data
0:25:15 > 0:25:22with, as well as the way that these companies enforce the agreement they
0:25:22 > 0:25:27said with third parties who receive data. Which, of course in this case,
0:25:27 > 0:25:32we have seen harm the public.You don't think in future they will
0:25:32 > 0:25:40collect less data, do you?Well, I think that remains to be seen. I
0:25:40 > 0:25:45think a lot of this is going to depend on the way that Washington,
0:25:45 > 0:25:50DC and the rest of the regulatory community around the world starts
0:25:50 > 0:25:59thinking about this burgeoning industry. There may be checks placed
0:25:59 > 0:26:03on the way that these kinds of companies, like Facebook, can
0:26:03 > 0:26:08collect data, which may or may not have positive effects for consumers
0:26:08 > 0:26:14at the end of the day.Just stay there for a second if you can.
0:26:14 > 0:26:19Alexander Nix told me on Monday, he was the boss of Cambridge Analytica,
0:26:19 > 0:26:22of course, that he felt the media had been out to get it. One of the
0:26:22 > 0:26:28questions we just do not know is how helpful Facebook word to the Donald
0:26:28 > 0:26:32Trump campaign and whether there would have been the same interest if
0:26:32 > 0:26:36Hillary Clinton had won.I think that is really difficult to say but
0:26:36 > 0:26:39I suspect other parties would be complaining if it had been the other
0:26:39 > 0:26:43way, but I do think there are a number of issues that are being
0:26:43 > 0:26:46conflated, which makes this a situation which is not going away. I
0:26:46 > 0:26:51think there is one issue about Facebook and about third parties
0:26:51 > 0:26:55that use its data and then violate its terms of services. There is
0:26:55 > 0:26:58another issue about Facebook's lack of disclosure and lack of
0:26:58 > 0:27:01transparency about when those violations happened and how it
0:27:01 > 0:27:05behaves in response to that. Then there is another issue yet about
0:27:05 > 0:27:09what is being done with that data. So I don't think there would be
0:27:09 > 0:27:12quite so much backlash, for example, if it turned out to be a clothing
0:27:12 > 0:27:20retailer who had used data servicing adverts for clothing.This is the
0:27:20 > 0:27:24question, if we know our data is being used and shared, do we mind?
0:27:24 > 0:27:27Is it about the transparency more than anything is?For me, I think
0:27:27 > 0:27:31it's all about the transparency, disclosure. Even things that have
0:27:31 > 0:27:34come out that maybe Facebook tried to suppress the news about this,
0:27:34 > 0:27:38tried to deny... I think they played this badly and their acted very
0:27:38 > 0:27:42poorly. They probably felt they had a defensive position because they
0:27:42 > 0:27:46had changed their terms of services in 2014, since all this happened
0:27:46 > 0:27:50that Mayport, we have got of this, we know how to manage this. I think
0:27:50 > 0:27:56that response is what was poor.I want to bring up the front of
0:27:56 > 0:27:59tomorrow's Times which has a story saying advertisers are threatening
0:27:59 > 0:28:06to pull out of Facebook. Even talk of putting it on and on ethical
0:28:06 > 0:28:12investment list, which clearly would be a major blow to a company that
0:28:12 > 0:28:14thought it was all about sharing the good. Do you think they will or is
0:28:14 > 0:28:20this just a threat?I think it's being considered and is a viable
0:28:20 > 0:28:25threat. My prediction is it wouldn't come to that. I think Facebook will
0:28:25 > 0:28:29continue to insist it is a platform, as was said earlier, it does need to
0:28:29 > 0:28:35monitor and make sure that it is adhering to its terms of service,
0:28:35 > 0:28:39terms and conditions. I think advertisers and even investors just
0:28:39 > 0:28:44want to see Facebook leadership leading from the front and being
0:28:44 > 0:28:48more transparent and more genuine and sincere about that.Facebook is
0:28:48 > 0:28:52a domain, the Giants, but this is an industrywide problem, as far as we
0:28:52 > 0:28:58can say?Yes, and that is what he was saying earlier, this is not just
0:28:58 > 0:29:02Facebook. Every technology company uses big data and that is one of the
0:29:02 > 0:29:06promises of technology, that you can have bespoke custom tailored
0:29:06 > 0:29:11solutions.I know you are not and might as any kind of Facebook
0:29:11 > 0:29:16spokesman. You left the company and I'm wondering why, was a sense of
0:29:16 > 0:29:18discomfort with what they did?
0:29:18 > 0:29:25Well, my career is varied, before Facebook I was in the bomber White
0:29:25 > 0:29:31House, working on privacy and Internet policy issues. -- Obama
0:29:31 > 0:29:37White House. Long story short, I wanted to have an impact in public
0:29:37 > 0:29:42policy-making, and so I'm doing what I'm doing out to try to think about
0:29:42 > 0:29:50how this industry can reshape itself, and mould into a space that
0:29:50 > 0:29:58can limit the negative externalities that we are seeing from political
0:29:58 > 0:30:01misinformation to foreign interference in elections, to hate
0:30:01 > 0:30:09speech.Yeah. Limit the negative is a very delicate phrase...! Is that
0:30:09 > 0:30:15where we are, can it come back now? No, no, I think it is going to come
0:30:15 > 0:30:20back, all of this is unprecedented, all of this is unintentional, there
0:30:20 > 0:30:25is consequence that come about of having great market force and impact
0:30:25 > 0:30:28but Mark Zuckerberg, with all of his naivete, and reaction over the last
0:30:28 > 0:30:33few days, he is well intended, he wants to see the platform used for
0:30:33 > 0:30:36good, wants to remain somewhat neutral, and wants to have a
0:30:36 > 0:30:42framework which can support the monitoring and the policing of that.
0:30:42 > 0:30:46But in an altruistic, a beneficial way, I think that is the intention.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50I don't think he started the company thinking, this can be used as a
0:30:50 > 0:30:54weapon or a tool, for nefarious purposes.Thank you very much, both
0:30:54 > 0:30:57of you.
0:30:57 > 0:31:01The war of words between Russia and the UK is at boiling point
0:31:01 > 0:31:04this evening,
0:31:04 > 0:31:06as the Foreign Secretary compared the likened
0:31:06 > 0:31:08Russia's use of the forthcoming World Cup to Hitler's use
0:31:08 > 0:31:09of the 1936 Olympics.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12Tomorrow's European summit was meant to be dominated by Brexit
0:31:12 > 0:31:15but the Prime Minister has other ideas.
0:31:15 > 0:31:19Our political editor Nick Wattis here.
0:31:19 > 0:31:22Has the Foreign Secretary helped or hindered? As the biographer of
0:31:22 > 0:31:27Winston Churchill, Boris Johnson will understand the acute
0:31:27 > 0:31:30sensitivities of drawing parallels between Nazi Germany and Russia, to
0:31:30 > 0:31:34be fair, needed not draw and sacked parallel, but in answer to a
0:31:34 > 0:31:37question from the former Labour minister, Ian Austin, the Foreign
0:31:37 > 0:31:41Secretary said that it was certainly right. -- he did not draw an exact
0:31:41 > 0:31:51parallel. He said it is right to say that they will promote Russian
0:31:51 > 0:31:54interests at the World Cup, anti-competitive way that Adolf
0:31:54 > 0:31:58Hitler did that in the 1936 Perlin Olympics. -- and he compares that in
0:31:58 > 0:32:10the way. -- the Berlin Olympic. The danger is that this was tenth in the
0:32:10 > 0:32:15hand of EU countries who believe that Britain has overreacted to the
0:32:15 > 0:32:19attack in Salisbury, and there will be in intervention at the summit
0:32:19 > 0:32:22tomorrow, and she is essentially going to reflect the UK view that
0:32:22 > 0:32:29Russia is now a strategic enemy, and not a strategic partner of the
0:32:29 > 0:32:33European Union. She is going to say that the Salisbury attack was an
0:32:33 > 0:32:37attended murder, using an illegal chemical weapon, indiscriminate and
0:32:37 > 0:32:42it was reckless. And she will say that this was a challenge from
0:32:42 > 0:32:49Russia that is going to India for years, and as one number ten
0:32:49 > 0:32:52official has said, the Russian threat now does not respect borders
0:32:52 > 0:32:56and as such we are all at risk. -- endure for years.Is she actually
0:32:56 > 0:33:02making a call to arms, is there an action she wants to see?Prime
0:33:02 > 0:33:05Minister will tell EU leaders that by expelling 23 undeclared Russian
0:33:05 > 0:33:12intelligence officers, the UK has dismantled the Russian espionage
0:33:12 > 0:33:16network, in the UK, and she will essentially say it could be you
0:33:16 > 0:33:20next, she will say, to the 27 leaders, this was the first use of
0:33:20 > 0:33:26chemical weapons on European soil since the Second World War. And
0:33:26 > 0:33:30there is a feeling in Whitehall that the Prime Minister will use this to
0:33:30 > 0:33:34move up to the next step, move up to a multilateral level, and
0:33:34 > 0:33:38essentially indicates to EU leaders, maybe you want to follow our
0:33:38 > 0:33:43example, in basically expelling spies from your country. Important
0:33:43 > 0:33:48to say, in Whitehall, they are saying, this is not a big
0:33:48 > 0:33:52confrontation with Russia, we are not looking at regime change.Thank
0:33:52 > 0:33:57you very much.
0:33:57 > 0:33:59Being an ex-Prime Minister, Finland's Alexander Stubb told me,
0:33:59 > 0:34:01is the best job in the world.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03He gives few interviews at home, because every intervention he says,
0:34:03 > 0:34:05seems like criticism of the current administration.
0:34:05 > 0:34:07He calls himself an Anglophile, indeed his wife is British,
0:34:07 > 0:34:09and always forged a strong alliance
0:34:09 > 0:34:11between Finland and Britain within the EU.
0:34:11 > 0:34:12Ahead of the European Summit tomorrow,
0:34:12 > 0:34:19I sat down with him this afternoon to talk about Brexit,
0:34:19 > 0:34:26loyalty, and whether it was right
0:34:26 > 0:34:29for the EU commission president to congratulate President Putin.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32I began by asking whether he agreed with Jacob Rees-Mogg who told me
0:34:32 > 0:34:34on Monday that as far as the Withdrawal treaty went,
0:34:34 > 0:34:35the government had rolled over,
0:34:35 > 0:34:37without even getting its tummy tickled.
0:34:37 > 0:34:38I disagree.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41I actually think the negotiations are going quite well for both sides.
0:34:41 > 0:34:43Usually in the EU, you have three faces: crisis,
0:34:43 > 0:34:44chaos and sub-optimal solution.
0:34:44 > 0:34:46We've had the crisis, when Brexit basically happened,
0:34:46 > 0:34:48the vote took place, but I think that negotiations have
0:34:48 > 0:34:51been very smooth and I think there are two reasons for it -
0:34:51 > 0:34:54one is called Michel Barnier and the other is called David Davis.
0:34:54 > 0:34:55So I'm quite optimistic.
0:34:55 > 0:34:58You don't see a problem with the Irish border?
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Well, I see a problem with Brexit and Irish border is a symptom of it,
0:35:01 > 0:35:04but if you look at the whole package,
0:35:04 > 0:35:08they have a financial settlement,
0:35:08 > 0:35:10which was the 7th of December,
0:35:10 > 0:35:13so everyone knows what the bill is going to be like.
0:35:13 > 0:35:14They have a transition deal,
0:35:14 > 0:35:18everyone knows for how long the UK will be in after it's out.
0:35:18 > 0:35:20I'm going to bring you back to the border...
0:35:20 > 0:35:22On the Irish border,
0:35:22 > 0:35:23that is basically the symbol of the problem,
0:35:23 > 0:35:26because if you're not part of a customs union,
0:35:26 > 0:35:28if you're not part of the single market,
0:35:28 > 0:35:31someone has to try and square the circle,
0:35:31 > 0:35:35and the way in which they've done it in the negotiations so far
0:35:35 > 0:35:36is to say there are three options:
0:35:36 > 0:35:38One, put as part of a big deal.
0:35:38 > 0:35:41Two, do some technological stuff and three, have a backstop,
0:35:41 > 0:35:43and they still have to negotiate and work on that.
0:35:43 > 0:35:45Can it be solved? Oof, I don't know.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48I've been in EU negotiations for the better part of 20 years.
0:35:48 > 0:35:49Everythingis solvable.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52You always find a solution at the end of the day.
0:35:52 > 0:35:54Whether it's going to be a solution that the EU
0:35:54 > 0:35:56likes or the UK likes,
0:35:56 > 0:36:00I don't know,
0:36:00 > 0:36:03but I think it's very, very important to protect
0:36:03 > 0:36:04the integrity of the single market
0:36:04 > 0:36:06and make sure that there's no hard border.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08Is there any solution that is obvious to you?
0:36:08 > 0:36:10Well, the obvious solution is to start thinking
0:36:10 > 0:36:11along these lines of,
0:36:11 > 0:36:14you know, customs union or some form of a customs union.
0:36:14 > 0:36:16The obvious thinking is to start using modern technology,
0:36:16 > 0:36:18and that will be the final deal.
0:36:18 > 0:36:19They've said that can take a decade, right?
0:36:19 > 0:36:22It can take a long time but I don't know how long.
0:36:22 > 0:36:26To a certain extent,
0:36:26 > 0:36:28you could also say that the negotiations
0:36:28 > 0:36:30on Ireland are the pretext also for the future
0:36:30 > 0:36:31relationship of the UK.
0:36:31 > 0:36:35I personally think, as an Anglophile,
0:36:35 > 0:36:37married to a Brit and children with dual-nationality,
0:36:37 > 0:36:39that it's very important that the UK
0:36:39 > 0:36:41has a special place in or out from the European Union
0:36:41 > 0:36:42in the future.
0:36:42 > 0:36:46Would you see financial services being included in a trade deal?
0:36:46 > 0:36:47Philip Hammond has spoken
0:36:47 > 0:36:50of the dangers of fragmenting the market in the City of London.
0:36:50 > 0:36:52He said it doesn't go to Europe,
0:36:52 > 0:36:57if you try and punish Britain,
0:36:57 > 0:36:59it just goes to Hong Kong or Singapore.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03So isn't it important that financial services is part of that?
0:37:03 > 0:37:05I think Philip Hammond
0:37:05 > 0:37:08has been one of the voices of reason in this whole debate.
0:37:08 > 0:37:10I look at financial services
0:37:10 > 0:37:12as obviously part of one of the four freedoms,
0:37:12 > 0:37:13if you will.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16The free movement of money, to a certain extent,
0:37:16 > 0:37:18and I agree that financial services in Europe should not be fragmented,
0:37:18 > 0:37:21but having said that, and as a banker nowadays,
0:37:21 > 0:37:28I also fully understand
0:37:28 > 0:37:31that if you don't have passporting rights,
0:37:31 > 0:37:33there is going to be movement of financial services elsewhere.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35Financial services are not going to escape London,
0:37:35 > 0:37:38but they will be more centralised on the continent proper.
0:37:38 > 0:37:39You've called yourself an Anglophile personally.
0:37:39 > 0:37:40Yeah.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43There's probably been no closer friend to Britain, within the EU,
0:37:43 > 0:37:44than Finland to the UK.
0:37:44 > 0:37:46Do you feel now that those royalties are torn?
0:37:46 > 0:37:49Is it more important to you to see the UK flourish
0:37:49 > 0:37:51or to see the EU flourish without us?
0:37:51 > 0:37:52Well...
0:37:52 > 0:37:55Obviously, first and foremost,
0:37:55 > 0:37:58I'm a Finn,
0:37:58 > 0:37:59secondly I'm an European,
0:37:59 > 0:38:03and thirdly I'm married to a Brit and an Anglophile.
0:38:03 > 0:38:04So the wife comes third!
0:38:04 > 0:38:06No, wife comes number one because she's also
0:38:06 > 0:38:07a Finnish national nowadays!
0:38:07 > 0:38:09No, but the bottom line is that obviously for me
0:38:09 > 0:38:13Brexit is sad and I still, and I say this with a sunken heart,
0:38:13 > 0:38:14that it's a lose-lose proposition,
0:38:14 > 0:38:17but at the same time I'm a pragmatic Finn,
0:38:17 > 0:38:19so we had to make the best of it.
0:38:19 > 0:38:20So I belong to the camp
0:38:20 > 0:38:23who is trying to help the UK to alleviate the pain,
0:38:23 > 0:38:26at the same time, get a good deal for the European Union.
0:38:26 > 0:38:28And then whatever happens in domestic politics in the UK,
0:38:28 > 0:38:32that's something that is completely out of our or my reach.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35I want to turn to the words of Jean-Claude Juncker today.
0:38:35 > 0:38:40He congratulated Putin on his win.
0:38:40 > 0:38:42Broke with the protocol of a lot of Western leaders.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45Was it a mistake?
0:38:45 > 0:38:49It's not my job as former Prime Minister,
0:38:49 > 0:38:50Vice President of the European Investment Bank,
0:38:50 > 0:38:52to give advice to Jean-Claude Juncker.
0:38:52 > 0:38:57Every institution and, actually, every state,
0:38:57 > 0:39:01takes that decision,
0:39:01 > 0:39:03and I do understand the sensitivities on a lot
0:39:03 > 0:39:04of players in this game.
0:39:04 > 0:39:07Would you have said that if you had been in his role?
0:39:07 > 0:39:09Well, it's a hypothetical question, isn't it...
0:39:09 > 0:39:13Come on. ..Because I'm not.
0:39:13 > 0:39:16I try to be diplomatic and discreet. He congratulated President Putin.
0:39:16 > 0:39:17He said, "Congratulations on your re-election, President Putin".
0:39:17 > 0:39:21I think there are a lot of European leaders and others as well
0:39:21 > 0:39:22who have congratulated,
0:39:22 > 0:39:23and it is part of protocol.
0:39:23 > 0:39:25There is no denying that. Obviously, was it my choice?
0:39:25 > 0:39:29And remember, Finland has 1300 kilometres of border with Russia.
0:39:29 > 0:39:34I would like to see a more open, more international,
0:39:34 > 0:39:42more transparent Russia than what we have today.
0:39:45 > 0:39:47When you add those together, we have seen incursions;
0:39:47 > 0:39:52we've seen cyber incursions,
0:39:52 > 0:39:53we've seen electoral meddling.
0:39:53 > 0:39:55Do you worry about the country on your doorstep?
0:39:55 > 0:39:57Of course I worry, and I think that nowadays, actually,
0:39:57 > 0:39:59the line between war and peace is blurred.
0:39:59 > 0:40:00We see cyber attacks,
0:40:00 > 0:40:02we see usage of chemical weapons or nerve gases,
0:40:02 > 0:40:03we see media manipulation...
0:40:03 > 0:40:05You're talking about Salisbury? Yes.
0:40:05 > 0:40:09We're seeing different types of things happen all over the place,
0:40:09 > 0:40:12and I think we have to sort of put a foot down
0:40:12 > 0:40:17and start discussing these things
0:40:17 > 0:40:20and try to make them unavoidable in the future.
0:40:20 > 0:40:26Alexander Stubb, thank you. Thanks.
0:40:26 > 0:40:31The front pages of the newspapers before we go, the Daily Telegraph
0:40:31 > 0:40:34there are, blue "Brexit" passports to be made in Europe, Tory fury as
0:40:34 > 0:40:40the contract goes to a Franco Dutch company, poised to win the contract
0:40:40 > 0:40:43to make the iconic blue British passport, after Brexit. --
0:40:43 > 0:40:48Franco-Dutch. In the Guardian, police take days to respond to 999
0:40:48 > 0:40:53incidents as budget cuts bite. The school should be dealt with within
0:40:53 > 0:40:57one hour, but significant stress from smashed budgets and increased
0:40:57 > 0:41:03demand. And pay rise hope for millions after the £4 billion NHS
0:41:03 > 0:41:12deal was agreed, public sector workers and the government today.
0:41:16 > 0:41:21That's about it, but before we go,
0:41:21 > 0:41:23today, fittingly on World Poetry Day,
0:41:23 > 0:41:26the auction house Bonhams had a sale of the personal effects
0:41:26 > 0:41:27of Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30Seeing the objects on offer, it's hard not to summon up mental
0:41:30 > 0:41:32images of their marriage, in all its painful, poetic tragedy.
0:41:32 > 0:41:33Here's a selection.
0:41:33 > 0:41:35Goodnight.
0:41:35 > 0:41:37# And maybe she'd take me to France
0:41:37 > 0:41:40# Or maybe to Spain and she'd ask me to dance
0:41:40 > 0:41:46# In a mansion on the top of a hill
0:41:46 > 0:41:48# She'd ash on the carpets
0:41:48 > 0:41:54# And slip me a pill
0:41:54 > 0:41:58# Then she'd get me pretty loaded on gin
0:41:58 > 0:42:04# And maybe she'd give me a bath
0:42:04 > 0:42:06# How I wish I had a Sylvia Plath #.