0:00:00 > 0:00:01This week, is the BBC too obsessed with the problems
0:00:01 > 0:00:08in our health service?
0:00:08 > 0:00:13Hello and welcome to Newswatch, with me, Samira Ahmed.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Flu, a nursing shortage - the NHS winter crisis
0:00:15 > 0:00:17is dominating headlines.
0:00:17 > 0:00:22But is BBC News overplaying the negative?
0:00:22 > 0:00:25We ask health editor, Hugh Pym, weather BBC coverage could be
0:00:25 > 0:00:34damaging confidence among NHS staff and the public.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36First, it's not always what you see on the news which captures
0:00:36 > 0:00:39the attention of Newswatch viewers, but when you see it.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42On Wednesday evening, a football match was showing live on BBC One.
0:00:42 > 0:00:44If you're interested, an FA Cup third-round replay
0:00:44 > 0:00:48between Chelsea and Norwich City.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52Unfortunately, not everyone was interested and when the broadcast
0:00:52 > 0:00:57overran because of the start to the game and they go into extra
0:00:57 > 0:01:00time and then a penalty shoot out, some of them were pretty angry,
0:01:00 > 0:01:08as the News at Ten became the news at 10:45pm.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10Here is Deborah.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14Last night, my husband and I got home after a long day at work
0:01:14 > 0:01:17and we do like to sit down and watch the Ten O'Clock News.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20But it turns out a football match was over running and the news had
0:01:20 > 0:01:21to be displaced by 45 minutes.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24I just don't think somebody's got their head screwed on.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26If the football match is that important, put it
0:01:26 > 0:01:27on a different channel.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29But I feel news comes before football.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Another sport caught the attention of some viewers last Saturday,
0:01:32 > 0:01:36although not all of them might describe it as a sport.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39Breakfast decided to look at the world of bare knuckle boxing,
0:01:39 > 0:01:48with this report from Johnny I'Anson.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Liam Cullan in Leeds has spent a lifetime in combat sport,
0:01:50 > 0:01:53but this weekend, he's fighting for a world title in one
0:01:53 > 0:02:00of the most extreme of all.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03When I say the words, bare knuckle boxing,
0:02:03 > 0:02:04you possibly think of gangsters settling feuds in
0:02:04 > 0:02:06old Victorian times.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09But there are a group of people but determined to bring the sport
0:02:09 > 0:02:11back to the mainstream and take it legally to the masses.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14A Twitter user called Suzie Q objected to that report,
0:02:14 > 0:02:16writing that she was "disappointed" the BBC is promoting
0:02:16 > 0:02:17and endorsing violent sport.
0:02:17 > 0:02:18"Gratuitous violence.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20What's the difference between this and a street brawl?
0:02:20 > 0:02:22Hope there aren't too many children watching.
0:02:22 > 0:02:23Shameful."
0:02:23 > 0:02:31Now, not for the first time, we are in the middle of a winter
0:02:31 > 0:02:34of difficulties and challenges for the national health service.
0:02:34 > 0:02:40BBC News has been reporting them with considerable attention.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43Tonight at Six, an apology from Theresa May after new figures reveal
0:02:43 > 0:02:47pressure on the NHS this winter.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49From ambulance transfer delays, unprecedented calls to the helpline
0:02:49 > 0:02:57and operations postponed.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59A stark claim by doctors.
0:02:59 > 0:03:00Winter pressures have left patients dying prematurely
0:03:00 > 0:03:01in hospital corridors.
0:03:01 > 0:03:07They say safety in A&E units in England and Wales
0:03:07 > 0:03:09has been compromised at a sometimes intolerable level.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12There is a clear emergency and what a number of other observers
0:03:12 > 0:03:15have clearly described as a crisis.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19One in ten nurses is leaving the NHS in England every year,
0:03:19 > 0:03:26as the gap between those leaving and joining the profession widens.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Hospital consultants in Wales say patient safety is being compromised
0:03:29 > 0:03:32and that the NHS and social care are chronically under resourced.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35We've got patients that are in the department where we don't
0:03:35 > 0:03:38have space to see them and then we are coming back the next day and
0:03:38 > 0:03:41some of the patients are still here.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44It's getting worse every winter, but this is the worst we have seen it.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46Viewer, Mike Hill, reacted to the coverage
0:03:46 > 0:03:49he'd seen by writing...
0:03:49 > 0:03:51"Every year the BBC in January encourages public hysteria
0:03:51 > 0:03:52by sensationalist reporting.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55An open door is offered to every medical group, trade union,
0:03:55 > 0:04:02charity and politician with the same crisis message.
0:04:02 > 0:04:06And Robert put it like this...
0:04:06 > 0:04:08"I am tired of hearing the scurrilous comments
0:04:08 > 0:04:09on BBC News programmes
0:04:09 > 0:04:12running down the NHS and the annual pressures they are
0:04:12 > 0:04:13coping with admirably.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15The nursing staff are demoralised as a result."
0:04:15 > 0:04:17Meanwhile, Brian Megson declared himself a fan of BBC News,
0:04:17 > 0:04:22but he echoed those reservations.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25What I don't enjoy is your constant commentary about the NHS.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28You start off in December and then you really let rip in January.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32Every day there's a report about how bad it is,
0:04:32 > 0:04:40people dying in corridors, not enough nurses, enough doctors.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42There's always something wrong with the NHS every day for you guys
0:04:43 > 0:04:44and you really should stop it.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48It's a wonderful organisation, why can't you let it be?
0:04:48 > 0:04:51It's a very big, tough organisation to run for those who are running it
0:04:51 > 0:04:55and I wish he would stop this obsession and fixation with it.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58Well, Hugh Pym, the health editor for BBC News is with me now.
0:04:58 > 0:04:59Thank you for coming Newswatch.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02There is a sense that the NHS in crisis story comes
0:05:02 > 0:05:03around each winter.
0:05:03 > 0:05:11Are you too negative in how you focus on it?
0:05:11 > 0:05:13Well, there's always a balance to be struck,
0:05:13 > 0:05:14we are very aware of that.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17The balance between recognising that the NHS does a fantastic job
0:05:17 > 0:05:20throughout the year and it is a very popular and well
0:05:20 > 0:05:21regarded institution.
0:05:21 > 0:05:22The staff work extremely hard.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26But also recognising that if is under great pressure and staff
0:05:26 > 0:05:29are feeling the pressure, and that is often what we are being
0:05:29 > 0:05:31told, then we need to report that.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33We need to hold the government to account on the performance
0:05:33 > 0:05:36of the NHS and the management of the NHS in different
0:05:36 > 0:05:37parts of the UK.
0:05:37 > 0:05:43Now, this winter it's been made abundantly clear to us by many
0:05:43 > 0:05:46people on the front line, that the pressure is greater
0:05:46 > 0:05:48than they have known before, even worse than last year.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52Many of them think the NHS is underfunded.
0:05:52 > 0:05:56We've had stories from patients as well about very, very long waits
0:05:56 > 0:05:58in ambulances outside hospitals and we have a duty to report that.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01You've absolutely made the journalistic case
0:06:01 > 0:06:04for why this is news, it's about what is abnormal.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07But is there enough consideration of the cumulative effect
0:06:07 > 0:06:10of all the stories, that they might actually be hurting peoples'
0:06:10 > 0:06:12confidence and undermining staff morale, which is what some viewers
0:06:12 > 0:06:16are concerned about?
0:06:16 > 0:06:20Well, a couple of the stories we did just to highlight,
0:06:20 > 0:06:23as we've seen just a few minutes ago, the letter from 68
0:06:23 > 0:06:24leading A&E consultants.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27Again, on the front line of the NHS, writing to the Prime Minister,
0:06:27 > 0:06:29saying they have very serious safety concerns, that people
0:06:29 > 0:06:31could be dying prematurely because of waiting in corridors.
0:06:31 > 0:06:33That letter echoed by consultants in Wales,
0:06:33 > 0:06:36writing to the First Minister.
0:06:36 > 0:06:41If that's how they feel in the NHS, then I think we have to report that.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44And when it went out on social media, there were a lot of tweets
0:06:44 > 0:06:47from people in different parts of the NHS, welcoming the fact
0:06:47 > 0:06:50that senior clinicians were speaking out like that.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53So in terms of the negative impact, it's hard to tell with morale,
0:06:53 > 0:06:56but we have done positive stories about the role of
0:06:56 > 0:06:58nurses, for example.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01A whole day of coverage on the valuable role they play.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03Also positive stories about how some hospitals,
0:07:03 > 0:07:07in the face of great pressure, are coping and are having
0:07:07 > 0:07:10to devise ways of streaming people through A&E.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13I highlighted a scheme in Ipswich.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16We've looked at the performance of Luton's A&E, hitting
0:07:16 > 0:07:17all their targets.
0:07:17 > 0:07:25A video on our website on that.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27So I think we do always try to highlight the steps
0:07:27 > 0:07:30which have been taken to mitigate this pressure.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33It is interesting you mentioned the day focused on nursing,
0:07:33 > 0:07:36because it was Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, tweeted that
0:07:36 > 0:07:39while the BBC's focus was good, he accused the BBC of underplaying
0:07:39 > 0:07:40the increase in nurse training places.
0:07:40 > 0:07:42Does he have a point?
0:07:42 > 0:07:46Well, we were highlighting the story which was that last year,
0:07:46 > 0:07:51the year to September 2017, more nurses had left the NHS band
0:07:51 > 0:07:53the year to September 2017, more nurses had left the NHS than
0:07:53 > 0:07:56joined it in England.
0:07:56 > 0:08:00There was a 3000 gap and that hadn't been seen at all in recent years.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02There was a small gap in the previous year,
0:08:02 > 0:08:04but it had been positive a few years before that.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06Highlighting the real recruitment and retention
0:08:06 > 0:08:08challenges the NHS has.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10The government's line is, new training places have been set up
0:08:10 > 0:08:13for a future flow of nurses and we did report that.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15But they are, in a way, different stories.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17Yes, planning for the future is one thing,
0:08:17 > 0:08:18which the government is trying to do.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22What was the situation last year?
0:08:22 > 0:08:26That was illustrated by the facts we quoted from NHS Digital.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29It is very clear from our conversation so far that there
0:08:29 > 0:08:32is a real political issue in how the NHS is being reported,
0:08:32 > 0:08:34given the government and the opposition are saying very
0:08:34 > 0:08:36different things about the funding going into the NHS
0:08:36 > 0:08:38and how it is being spent.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40How much of a challenge is that reporting it?
0:08:40 > 0:08:43It is a great challenge because the flow of funding
0:08:43 > 0:08:44is very complicated.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47Yes, the government can say they have put more money
0:08:47 > 0:08:49into the NHS and others can say, including Labour,
0:08:49 > 0:08:53that it's not enough.
0:08:53 > 0:08:58And that's of course, in some sense, is a value judgment.
0:08:58 > 0:09:02But there is an increasing view across different parts
0:09:02 > 0:09:06of the NHS and Royal colleges, trade unions and think tanks, saying
0:09:06 > 0:09:09that in England and also the UK, spending is lagging behind what it
0:09:09 > 0:09:11might be as a share of national income.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14So getting that balance right and also highlighting the need
0:09:14 > 0:09:17for the NHS to be efficient and how it can save money is always quite
0:09:17 > 0:09:19a difficult thing to get right.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21But, there is now an increasing debate about the need
0:09:21 > 0:09:24for a cross-party view on this, involving everyone across society,
0:09:24 > 0:09:26how do they want the NHS to be funded and social care?
0:09:26 > 0:09:30Where is the money going to come from, does it need more tax?
0:09:30 > 0:09:32On this, of course, the 70th year of the NHS.
0:09:32 > 0:09:36What is interesting, is we started off talking
0:09:36 > 0:09:38about viewers' concern that the BBC is being too negative,
0:09:38 > 0:09:44but it has also been striking that the BBC's logo for this story
0:09:44 > 0:09:47is NHS winter.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50Whereas in the past it has been NHS crisis, which the BBC
0:09:50 > 0:09:52also got criticised for.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56Some might say, is the BBC being too shy of being as hard as it needs
0:09:56 > 0:09:57to be on this story?
0:09:57 > 0:10:00We have been very careful in our reporting not to use the word
0:10:00 > 0:10:02crisis and not to brand it as a crisis.
0:10:02 > 0:10:10It is for others to make that assertion.
0:10:10 > 0:10:12Many are, many doctors as well as politicians are saying
0:10:12 > 0:10:14it is an NHS crisis.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16I think the best we can do is state the facts,
0:10:16 > 0:10:18state what is really going on in hospitals, GP surgeries,
0:10:18 > 0:10:20community health, mental health, right around the UK,
0:10:20 > 0:10:23state it as it is, make the debate about funding as clear as possible
0:10:23 > 0:10:26and then leave others to judge how serious it is.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29I think no one can be in any doubt, we have laid out there
0:10:29 > 0:10:32for viewers and listeners, there is a very serious state
0:10:32 > 0:10:35of affairs in some parts of the NHS, currently in January with flu
0:10:35 > 0:10:36being a major problem.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39We need to judge things in the months ahead as to where
0:10:39 > 0:10:40things go from here.
0:10:40 > 0:10:41Hugh Pym, thank you so much.
0:10:41 > 0:10:43Finally, in advance of President Macron's visit
0:10:43 > 0:10:46to the UK on Thursday, MP Tom Tugendhat was speaking
0:10:46 > 0:10:48to Breakfast presenter Charlie Stayt about Anglo-French relations
0:10:48 > 0:10:58when he found himself struggling with a croaky throat.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04It is true that our relationship is incredibly close and incredibly
0:11:04 > 0:11:06important for both of us.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09And we now have both got a responsibility to make it
0:11:09 > 0:11:10work on every level.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12Thank you very much for your time this morning.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15We will allow you to get a glass of water to help your throat.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17Thank you for your time this morning.
0:11:17 > 0:11:18Thank you.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20Always annoying when those frogs appear at the most
0:11:20 > 0:11:22inopportune times.
0:11:22 > 0:11:22It's 7:21am...
0:11:22 > 0:11:24Given that Frenchman, President Macron, had just
0:11:24 > 0:11:26been under discussion, was that reference to a frog,
0:11:26 > 0:11:28a subtle, if rather questionable joke, or just
0:11:28 > 0:11:29an unfortunate coincidence?
0:11:29 > 0:11:31A Twitter user called The Mystery Man bought the former,
0:11:31 > 0:11:34describing it as an amazing joke and although some were less
0:11:34 > 0:11:37impressed, a BBC spokesman said, our guest appeared to be struggling
0:11:37 > 0:11:39with a croaky voice and Naga was simply referring to that.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42Thank you very much for all your comments this week.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44We welcome all your opinions on BBC News and current affairs,
0:11:44 > 0:11:49so do please get in touch with us...
0:12:02 > 0:12:05That's all from us, we will be back to hear your thoughts about BBC News
0:12:05 > 0:12:06coverage again next week.
0:12:06 > 0:12:16Goodbye.