0:00:05 > 0:00:07Tonight, should abortion law be changed in line
0:00:07 > 0:00:15with the rest of the UK?
0:00:15 > 0:00:17Also tonight, we've the highest ratio of problem gamblers
0:00:17 > 0:00:20here in the whole of the UK - have we lost control?
0:00:20 > 0:00:28And what do you think, have I lost any weight?
0:00:28 > 0:00:49LAUGHTER CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:00:50 > 0:00:54This is what it's all about tonight. Thank you for joining us live on BBC
0:00:54 > 0:00:58One. We have the studio audience and you watching at home when we talk
0:00:58 > 0:01:05about the big news stories of the day.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08A big story for Northern Ireland is happening in the Supreme Court
0:01:08 > 0:01:10in London this week because the Human Rights Commission
0:01:10 > 0:01:13is arguing that Northern Ireland's abortion laws here are "inhuman
0:01:13 > 0:01:14and degrading" to women and girls here.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16As it stands, abortion is illegal in Northern Ireland
0:01:16 > 0:01:20except to preserve the life of the mother, but the court
0:01:20 > 0:01:25is considering whether abortion should be available to women
0:01:25 > 0:01:27in cases of rape or incest or fatal foetal abnormalities.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29Chief of the Human Rights Commission, Les Allamby,
0:01:29 > 0:01:34is in London for the case.
0:01:34 > 0:01:41Les, let us start with you then this evening. What are you actual #4ri
0:01:41 > 0:01:45fighting for, Les? What is happening here? And why?Good evening,
0:01:45 > 0:01:50Stephen. We are taking this case really for two reasons. One, we
0:01:50 > 0:01:55think the current law in Northern Ireland violates human rights in the
0:01:55 > 0:02:00circumstances that you've just outlined. Secondly, we are looking
0:02:00 > 0:02:06for clarity on the law because as the first two-days of legal argument
0:02:06 > 0:02:13have shown very clearly, in the cases of many women, and we heard
0:02:13 > 0:02:20about the experiences of Sarah Ewert, Deirdre and Ashley, in all of
0:02:20 > 0:02:24those cases the current guidance that was supposeded to provide
0:02:24 > 0:02:27clinicians with some understanding of the law failed to meet the needs
0:02:27 > 0:02:33of those women. We also heard from - You how is it breaching a woman's
0:02:33 > 0:02:36human rights if they're not allowed to have an abortion when this has
0:02:36 > 0:02:42been debated in the Assembly and locally elected people have voted?
0:02:42 > 0:02:46They have voted against it, Les? Well, there were two arguments that
0:02:46 > 0:02:53played out in the last couple of days. One is that the clear evidence
0:02:53 > 0:02:57from the life and times survey recently showed that the vast
0:02:57 > 0:03:01majority of people in Northern Ireland surveyed suggested that the
0:03:01 > 0:03:05law should be changed to allow terminations in cases that we are
0:03:05 > 0:03:16canvassing. Secondly, the Assembly must abide by human rights. The
0:03:16 > 0:03:17Westminster Parliament, including the Northern Ireland Assembly, has
0:03:17 > 0:03:23signed up to the Human Rights Act we think the convention rights as
0:03:23 > 0:03:26provided in The Human Rights Act must be abided bye-bye politicians.
0:03:26 > 0:03:31All right.It's not enough to be elected.There is it set out. You
0:03:31 > 0:03:35were vocal on the Nolan Radio Show about this. There was a lot of
0:03:35 > 0:03:38reaction to what you were saying. You have heard about the Northern
0:03:38 > 0:03:42Ireland survey there. Womenle deciding for themselves what will
0:03:42 > 0:03:48happen with their body. What's wrong with that?The law should not be
0:03:48 > 0:03:52changed. In fact the law in Northern Ireland is not strong enough. If I
0:03:52 > 0:03:58had power, I would actually abolish human abortion completely. I believe
0:03:58 > 0:04:02that a -Force a woman who has been raped to have a child?You are going
0:04:02 > 0:04:06to have two victims then. If you sacrifice the life of the child you
0:04:06 > 0:04:09will have two victims. Why should the innocent child be punished for
0:04:09 > 0:04:20the sins of its father. Punish the rainist. Go -- rapist. It mite might
0:04:20 > 0:04:25not be possible to infind the rapist? The police should hunt for
0:04:25 > 0:04:29him.Of course they should hunt for him.The case should never be closed
0:04:29 > 0:04:32until he is found. If he's never found, never close the case.What
0:04:32 > 0:04:39about the wellbeing of the mother? The mother in that particular
0:04:39 > 0:04:44circumstance requires support, perhaps counselling, medical care to
0:04:44 > 0:04:48enable her to continue with the pregnancy.If she decides, no, she
0:04:48 > 0:04:53doesn't want the child or indeed in a case of fatal foetal be moral
0:04:53 > 0:04:56where the doctor is saying, the child is not going to live. Indeed
0:04:56 > 0:05:01the child already doesn't have a brain. No chance of life.Doctors
0:05:01 > 0:05:06are not infallible. They can make mistakes in their diagnosis and they
0:05:06 > 0:05:10have made mistakes in their diagnosis. They are not God. They
0:05:10 > 0:05:16get it wrong. No-one can take life, only God can take life.Why should
0:05:16 > 0:05:20your view prevail over everyone else?It's not my view. This has
0:05:20 > 0:05:27been the view of society for many, many years. It is only because of
0:05:27 > 0:05:31the sexual revolutionary and revolutionaries like Les Allamby -
0:05:31 > 0:05:35Sexual revolution -Sexual revolution.What has sex to do with
0:05:35 > 0:05:42this?How do you think these women are getting pregnant?How are they
0:05:42 > 0:05:46getting pregnant -Sex has everything to do with it. Illicit
0:05:46 > 0:05:53sex -We are talking about cases of rape where obviously that has
0:05:53 > 0:05:59nothing to do with it. We are talking about cases of fatal foetal
0:05:59 > 0:06:03abnormality where there is nothing sexually revolutionary about that.
0:06:03 > 0:06:09What are you talking about that?In the case of rape it's very unusual
0:06:09 > 0:06:13for a pregnancy to result. Very rare. Very rare. The sexual
0:06:13 > 0:06:17revolution is behind this drive for abortion. Please understand this, if
0:06:17 > 0:06:22you understand nothing else. The sexual revolution is behind this
0:06:22 > 0:06:26demand for abortion. These feminists want to live lives of sexual
0:06:26 > 0:06:30anarchy. They want to be able to take care of the consequences of
0:06:30 > 0:06:42that sexual anarchy which is unplanned pregnant cyst. --
0:06:42 > 0:06:46pregnancies.I don't know what we are understand. Feminism is a good
0:06:46 > 0:06:50thing. If you keep in mind what is happening in Hollywood at the
0:06:50 > 0:06:54moment. We are punishing women for just existing. The question, I want
0:06:54 > 0:06:58to make my fact clear -What do you say to what Susan says and the views
0:06:58 > 0:07:02she represents?I just don't think - the rest of the UK had this 50 years
0:07:02 > 0:07:06ago. How is it we are still in Northern Ireland today squabbling
0:07:06 > 0:07:10over this? We shouldn't force anything like that on a person who
0:07:10 > 0:07:14is already suffered through one of the worst things you could put a
0:07:14 > 0:07:18person through, women and transmen, to turn around and say - you must
0:07:18 > 0:07:21carry this child for nine months because we are not changing our
0:07:21 > 0:07:26lawses to fit in with the rest of the UK.Susan?I say again, I
0:07:26 > 0:07:29reiterate, the law in Northern Ireland should not be changed. But
0:07:29 > 0:07:33even as itten stands, it's not strong enough. There should be no
0:07:33 > 0:07:41abortion. Not for any reason.Katie? Well, I mean to say there should be
0:07:41 > 0:07:47no abortion for any reason, I would like to remind you in two-days time
0:07:47 > 0:07:53it's the fifth an verse of -She died of sepsis, she did not die
0:07:53 > 0:07:58because she was denied an abortion. We need to have her have a chance.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03She wented at Galloway University Hospital she was in hospital in
0:08:03 > 0:08:12intensive care where she presented at hospital with a 17 week unviable
0:08:12 > 0:08:16pregnancy she was miscarrying and she asked for an abortion shechl was
0:08:16 > 0:08:19told she koent because the foetal heartbeat was present. She asked
0:08:19 > 0:08:23several times again and was told again and again she couldn't have an
0:08:23 > 0:08:27abortion because the foetal heartbeat was present as a result of
0:08:27 > 0:08:33not getting the abortion she got sepsis went into sepsis shock and
0:08:33 > 0:08:42died of multi organ failure. The doctors who examined her notes, they
0:08:42 > 0:08:45said if she was given the abortion she would be alive today. We would
0:08:45 > 0:08:55never have heard of her. The chair of the inquiry into her death said
0:08:55 > 0:09:01she would be alive today and he would have expedited this delivery.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05Toll say that an abortion should never happen. Women die in countries
0:09:05 > 0:09:10where there is no abortion. If that is what you are advocating you need
0:09:10 > 0:09:18to backpack up your bags and go home.Have you read -I have. It's
0:09:18 > 0:09:29rubbish.It's not rubbish. Object are tritions.CatholicWould you
0:09:29 > 0:09:37mind not shout ing me down.You are not bad at shouting yourself.They
0:09:37 > 0:09:42said that direct abortion is not medically necessary to save the life
0:09:42 > 0:09:51of a woman.The Dublin declaration has been denounced by -Nonsense.By
0:09:51 > 0:09:57the current master -You are a revolutionary. You have links to
0:09:57 > 0:10:00pro-abortion organisations. I do. You want abortion on-demand.I do.
0:10:00 > 0:10:05Up to birth. For any reason.Up to 12 weeks for any reason.Any reason.
0:10:05 > 0:10:10Don't tell me -That's the end goal. Don't believe this nonsense. The end
0:10:10 > 0:10:14goal is these feminists wants abortion on-demand for any reason at
0:10:14 > 0:10:20any time up to and including birth. Maybe I could tell you what I think
0:10:20 > 0:10:22myself. I don't need to be spoken for.
0:10:22 > 0:10:28APPLAUSE Just as you would choose to speak
0:10:28 > 0:10:34for all women. Your views, you are absolutely entitled to have them and
0:10:34 > 0:10:49I respect them don't impose them on women going through crisis
0:10:49 > 0:10:55pregnanciies. -Why would you have them? Tell us why you had two
0:10:55 > 0:10:59abortion.No.You murdered your two unborn children. You are sitting
0:10:59 > 0:11:04there as large as life and proud of it. Shame on you.I'm not ashamed.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09You should be ashamed.Hold on. Don't you think that you should be
0:11:09 > 0:11:16treating this whole subject with a little bit more sensitivity?When I
0:11:16 > 0:11:25think of unborn -Rather than directing...Being torn to pieces in
0:11:25 > 0:11:29abortion clinics over this world. I get hot under the collar. Who will
0:11:29 > 0:11:32speak for the unborn child. I'm concerned about the unborn child who
0:11:32 > 0:11:35at this time throughout the world they are being torn to pieces.Hold
0:11:35 > 0:11:40on.Where is your compassion.I will give you room to respond to that. We
0:11:40 > 0:11:47will bring in the rest of our panel. The passion and the
0:11:47 > 0:11:52single-mindedness of Susan White is indicative of a feeling that is in
0:11:52 > 0:11:55our community, that all abortion no matter what is wrong.That's fine.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58How would you respond to her?I respect people's views to have that.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02No-one is asking people to have abortions who disagree with it. When
0:12:02 > 0:12:08a woman has either a financial crisis or she has so many children
0:12:08 > 0:12:13already she can't have any more. Or it will interrupt her education. She
0:12:13 > 0:12:16has a fatal foetal abnormality or she's been raped.A financial crisis
0:12:16 > 0:12:20should be a reason to say I'm not continuing with a pregnancy.If you
0:12:20 > 0:12:24are a woman in poverty and can't afford to have another child, I
0:12:24 > 0:12:29think you should.Should a life not mean more than that?If it's your
0:12:29 > 0:12:32view. If I was a woman with four kids already, a I think isle mother
0:12:32 > 0:12:37and no money coming in except social welfare -What about allowing that
0:12:37 > 0:12:41child to be born or adopted or cared for by a family...If a woman wants
0:12:41 > 0:12:46to do that.Should a father have an equal decision?No.No, in this
0:12:46 > 0:12:50world of equal rights and how many, many women rightfully so are saying
0:12:50 > 0:12:54their view is not being taken on board, you don't think a father
0:12:54 > 0:12:58should have a decision to make in that?I think -An equal decision.
0:12:58 > 0:13:03His views should be heard if he's a loving partner. He he's not going to
0:13:03 > 0:13:07have to carry the child.Its his child as much as the mothers.If he
0:13:07 > 0:13:12wants to carry it, look at way to do that. Never impose your decision
0:13:12 > 0:13:16that you should tell a woman to carry a child to term if she doesn't
0:13:16 > 0:13:23want.The lady here.I want to start by saying Mrs Whyte I'm terribly
0:13:23 > 0:13:26saddened by your attitudes. It's very judgmental. I personally
0:13:26 > 0:13:31believe a woman's body is a woman's body, I think it's up to her. I'm
0:13:31 > 0:13:35very sad Mrs Whyte I think you are being quite aggressive. It's very
0:13:35 > 0:13:38sad to judge people when you maybe have not walked walked in their
0:13:38 > 0:13:47shoes.You are absolutely right I'm judgmental because the Bible is very
0:13:47 > 0:13:50judgmental about thousand shall not kill. The Bible says thousand shall
0:13:50 > 0:13:56not kill. That is pretty judgmental. The Bible gives me the right. God
0:13:56 > 0:14:04decides who lives and who dies.OK. Go-ahead.I'm pro-life I will never
0:14:04 > 0:14:14say I'm anything but pro-life. Mrs White your view you need to come up
0:14:14 > 0:14:19into the 21st century. Religion should not be thrown down people's
0:14:19 > 0:14:24throats. God said love your neighbour.Love your unborn
0:14:24 > 0:14:29neighbour.I said I'm pro-life that girl went through something she
0:14:29 > 0:14:34needed to have an I a borings for. I agree that a life is a life from
0:14:34 > 0:14:44minute of conception, but when it comes to fatal be more nalts and
0:14:44 > 0:14:50rape. I know people who have been raped and kept their child at not
0:14:50 > 0:14:54kept a child. I know people who had abortion and cried their eyeballs
0:14:54 > 0:14:58out because of it. That is not the poin you need to realise it's a
0:14:58 > 0:15:01woman's choice. Yes, as the girl said, yes, the man should be
0:15:01 > 0:15:06involved. I'm sorry, I do agree there should be two people - it
0:15:06 > 0:15:09takes two to make a baby. There should be two people involved in
0:15:09 > 0:15:10that conversation unless it's rape.
0:15:13 > 0:15:20Tracey. My goodness.Welcome to the northern shore. I think every
0:15:20 > 0:15:26abortion is a tragedy and all people within society would want to do
0:15:26 > 0:15:34whatever we can to reduce and eliminate that terrible tragedy for
0:15:34 > 0:15:42mother and baby.You had a difficult decision. What happened?Around 2006
0:15:42 > 0:15:49I had a lovely 3-D ultrasound scan, in America living with my husband.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53It showed everything was absolutely healthy. We went on and on the 2nd
0:15:53 > 0:15:59of November 2006 I had to give birth to a little girl Kathleen Rose and
0:15:59 > 0:16:04it wasn't until the day of her birth, she took a severe respiratory
0:16:04 > 0:16:09attack. We had no clue that anything was wrong with her. She was rushed
0:16:09 > 0:16:15to hospital and given medical intervention. But into intensive
0:16:15 > 0:16:18care, ventilated for a couple of days and then the doctor started to
0:16:18 > 0:16:21say there is something wrong here and she was diagnosed a couple of
0:16:21 > 0:16:29weeks later with a condition called trisomy 13 and I don't like the term
0:16:29 > 0:16:35fatal fatal abnormality because I think it is dehumanising.Told your
0:16:35 > 0:16:41child had little chance of survival? They told us when she was in
0:16:41 > 0:16:44intensive care that around 90% of these little ones wouldn't make it
0:16:44 > 0:16:48to their first birthday but because she was treated like every other
0:16:48 > 0:16:52child at that time because medical intervention was given to her we all
0:16:52 > 0:16:58wanted to continue with that.I do any decision to make at that stage?
0:16:58 > 0:17:02We could have withdrawn treatment from Kathleen, because of her
0:17:02 > 0:17:05disabilities that was a decision that was given to us.Our world is
0:17:05 > 0:17:10your daughter now?She is about to celebrate her 11th birthday so we
0:17:10 > 0:17:15are delighted with that. I spent a lot of time in special needs schools
0:17:15 > 0:17:20and I am concerned what is happening across in London. I am concerned
0:17:20 > 0:17:26about the impact it has on how we value children and...What would you
0:17:26 > 0:17:32say to women who decide to have an abortion?In that particular case?
0:17:32 > 0:17:37Where they are told by medical professional, they fiddle
0:17:37 > 0:17:42abnormality, no chance of survival. There is a huge amount of work to be
0:17:42 > 0:17:47done in terms of improving -- fatal fatal abnormality. They are given
0:17:47 > 0:17:56the news that, at that moment about Mrs Dill child is already alive and
0:17:56 > 0:18:03kicking in the womb. Support systems in place, most people are very
0:18:03 > 0:18:09happy.I think it is a societal issue sold society should have the
0:18:09 > 0:18:14final choice on how we decide this. I think we should have a referendum,
0:18:14 > 0:18:18they should be a simple yes or no, it should we bring in 1967 Abortion
0:18:18 > 0:18:25Act?How do you feel that a man should not have as much of a
0:18:25 > 0:18:32decision? Why should the father do you think a father should have the
0:18:32 > 0:18:37same 50-50 decision making or because the mother is carrying the
0:18:37 > 0:18:44baby that is what dominates?It is a strong moral question, if she has
0:18:44 > 0:18:50that a child, the man can walk away at any stage. Definitely his views
0:18:50 > 0:18:56should be taken into account.How can a man walk away at any stage? A
0:18:56 > 0:19:05mother can equally walk away.But during the pregnancy -- not during
0:19:05 > 0:19:09pregnancy. Most women and their maternal instinct...What about the
0:19:09 > 0:19:14paternal instinct from a father?I understand but I don't think the
0:19:14 > 0:19:16father has the same rights as the mother because he doesn't have to
0:19:16 > 0:19:24carry the child.Go ahead.These are the similar conversations to the
0:19:24 > 0:19:26political parties in Northern Ireland whether you are either
0:19:26 > 0:19:30pro-abortion or pro-life but is anyone actually pro-choice and stop
0:19:30 > 0:19:35deciding when it is OK and deciding individual women should decide for
0:19:35 > 0:19:41themselves.White should an individual woman decide for
0:19:41 > 0:19:50yourself?But we are dealing with is society here, not just one
0:19:50 > 0:19:55individual, dealing with society and what we want to do is preserved life
0:19:55 > 0:20:00in our society. Once we go down the road as Britain did 50 years ago,
0:20:00 > 0:20:06once we go down the road of making exceptions and having abortions,
0:20:06 > 0:20:09initially the Abortion Act was considered just for a few special
0:20:09 > 0:20:15cases. We now discover that 8 million a Bees have been aborted --
0:20:15 > 0:20:21babies. In Britain in the last 50 years. That diminishes life and we
0:20:21 > 0:20:29have to celebrate life.No matter what?Yes. I think we have got to
0:20:29 > 0:20:37build...So a 14-year-old child is sexually abused or raped and against
0:20:37 > 0:20:41her will she will be forced through a pregnancy?We have to support
0:20:41 > 0:20:49people in such crisis circumstances. Going back to the law...You talk
0:20:49 > 0:20:59about support law, if that someone in their own person, you don't know
0:20:59 > 0:21:04them, and they know themselves and their family know them, and let's
0:21:04 > 0:21:07take the instance of rape, you force them to go through with the
0:21:07 > 0:21:14pregnancy.What we are saying...But our arms around those people, that
0:21:14 > 0:21:25is what we do.In terms of the law,...Bad cases make bad law. That
0:21:25 > 0:21:30is what is this happening. Arguments here are in the extremes. Once you
0:21:30 > 0:21:34open up the abortion law here in Northern Ireland much wider than it
0:21:34 > 0:21:38is at this moment in time, you create a situation with abortion on
0:21:38 > 0:21:47demand.Can I just say... It is not a black and white issue. I have to
0:21:47 > 0:21:50say tonight there are people in the audience tonight who are going
0:21:50 > 0:21:53through hell on earth and I would rather their language was calmed
0:21:53 > 0:21:58down on this. I had a medical termination, that was it done and
0:21:58 > 0:22:07dusted.That was a miscarriage. You have been on air before...The
0:22:07 > 0:22:12pregnancy was continuing on even though the heartbeat had just gone.
0:22:12 > 0:22:19I think this is very dangerous. Is it not dangerous you telling a woman
0:22:19 > 0:22:23what happened to her was Mike do you not think she might know what
0:22:23 > 0:22:33happened?Can I just say, we need to come this back down again. We are
0:22:33 > 0:22:36talking about women and Stephen has given the example there are about a
0:22:36 > 0:22:39teenager who has gone through a terrible situation like rape or
0:22:39 > 0:22:43incest. We know saying that girl doesn't have any human rights?
0:22:43 > 0:22:47Because in Northern Ireland today she doesn't. We are saying we will
0:22:47 > 0:22:52send you to England and let them deal with our problems. We are
0:22:52 > 0:22:55ignoring women and young people who are getting pregnant perhaps through
0:22:55 > 0:22:59no fault of their own, they are being pregnant and told that their
0:22:59 > 0:23:04child doesn't have enough body parts to survive.They are being ignored.
0:23:04 > 0:23:09We should not go down the path of the other countries. The Abortion
0:23:09 > 0:23:14Act came before I was born. They had no impact -- no idea the impact it
0:23:14 > 0:23:20would have. 90% of Down's syndrome babies aborted. What does that say
0:23:20 > 0:23:28about this ability is?Just trust woman.That is a ridiculous...
0:23:28 > 0:23:36APPLAUSE Both sides are important.But lives
0:23:36 > 0:23:43matter. Those statistics are staggering. Let's listen. I would
0:23:43 > 0:23:48add the question of the Human Rights Commission. It is an extreme...It
0:23:48 > 0:23:56is not an extreme pole. It is an issue for society decide.We can see
0:23:56 > 0:24:03the baby now.We didn't have that... The United nation 's Human Rights
0:24:03 > 0:24:06Commission says we have voted on this in a referendum. What this
0:24:06 > 0:24:10setback to the Irish government every time if it is the tyranny of
0:24:10 > 0:24:14the majority. When a woman has human rights that are defined in
0:24:14 > 0:24:18international human rights law, just because, even if it is one woman and
0:24:18 > 0:24:21the rest of society says no you can't have your human rights, that
0:24:21 > 0:24:33is called tender tyranny of the majority.Every single person...The
0:24:33 > 0:24:35emotive language of saying babies are being killed. The vast
0:24:35 > 0:24:46majority...I speak up. I have a women and I want the best for them.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50That is great. I think every woman wants the best for their children.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53Think of the pressure women are under the law is so liberal, the men
0:24:53 > 0:24:58who phoned and book the abortions. Let's go to the audience.I would
0:24:58 > 0:25:04like to say that those who say they are petitioning for the right to
0:25:04 > 0:25:07life, what about the right of the mother's like with the person
0:25:07 > 0:25:14carrying the baby's like?Cherish both.They shouldn't have to carry a
0:25:14 > 0:25:21baby to term because of the fact they got pregnant. If there is a
0:25:21 > 0:25:25case where your organ could save someone, you don't have to give up
0:25:25 > 0:25:28your right to your life as it currently is, to save someone else's
0:25:28 > 0:25:33that you do not know. Yet it is their pregnancy but that doesn't
0:25:33 > 0:25:37mean that they have to give up their life or change their life just to
0:25:37 > 0:25:44support that.Mrs White, the very thing you have heard tonight, you
0:25:44 > 0:25:49risk is updated thinking that people go through before they have the
0:25:49 > 0:25:53abortion, the deep thinking they go through in their personal
0:25:53 > 0:25:57circumstances, suffering?Is the fact that most abortions are bumpers
0:25:57 > 0:26:01of the reasons? Where'd you get that from? Is common knowledge. Many
0:26:01 > 0:26:07studies throughout the United Kingdom. The majority, even in
0:26:07 > 0:26:10Northern Ireland, of abortions are done for social reasons.What do you
0:26:10 > 0:26:16mean by social reasons?You mention yourself, poverty. You think that
0:26:16 > 0:26:20there's a reason for abortion.That is a reason for a woman to decide
0:26:20 > 0:26:24what is best for her and quite often for her children that are living,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27quite often for her ability to go out and earn money to keep those
0:26:27 > 0:26:32children. Women make the best they can all the time, and they are
0:26:32 > 0:26:38usually doing the best I can for other people, children and partners.
0:26:38 > 0:26:43They don't make the decisions to have abortions.Do you not think for
0:26:43 > 0:26:46those families that go through IVF or they struggled to have a child
0:26:46 > 0:26:53for many years, that when you talk about money being a determining
0:26:53 > 0:26:57factor as to whether a life occurs or not, is that not cheapening value
0:26:57 > 0:27:02of like?I would love to see some of these pro-life people campaigning on
0:27:02 > 0:27:08child poverty and homelessness.It is actually the pro-life
0:27:08 > 0:27:14organisations their day in day out to help people.Go ahead.From what
0:27:14 > 0:27:18a lot of the saying it is coming across that you think if they change
0:27:18 > 0:27:21the abortion law that all of a sudden abortion is going to be the
0:27:21 > 0:27:25main form of contraception. That obviously won't happen. A lot of
0:27:25 > 0:27:28women are pro-choice but it doesn't mean they are pro-abortion. A lot of
0:27:28 > 0:27:32them have an abortion because it is the last resort. There are other
0:27:32 > 0:27:36types of contraception. All of a sudden the law changes it doesn't
0:27:36 > 0:27:40mean that will be the go to. We need more education around things like
0:27:40 > 0:27:43different types of contraception. That comes from the fact that they
0:27:43 > 0:27:46don't have a lot of sex education in Northern Ireland and it probably
0:27:46 > 0:27:50comes from exactly what Mrs White said about the religious views and
0:27:50 > 0:27:54we have so many...She is entitled to her religious view and you
0:27:54 > 0:27:58shouldn't be mocked for it. There are a lot of people who live their
0:27:58 > 0:28:03life on religious view in this country.Sex education in schools is
0:28:03 > 0:28:08actually the propaganda arm of the sexual revolution. It is giving
0:28:08 > 0:28:13children, telling children they have the right to a sex life. Children 11
0:28:13 > 0:28:17and 12 and 13-year-olds are being told through sex education they have
0:28:17 > 0:28:23a right to a sex life.What has that got to do with abortion?It leads to
0:28:23 > 0:28:28the demand for abortion, all these teenage pregnancies. It can be
0:28:28 > 0:28:36traced to sex education.One last comment. Very quickly. Yes, you.
0:28:36 > 0:28:41This is for Katie, I am disgusted that she said that, that the man has
0:28:41 > 0:28:52so choice.I didn't say the man has no choice. No voice. In my opinion,
0:28:52 > 0:28:55and I think everyone around this table is entitled to the opinion, I
0:28:55 > 0:29:01just wouldn't push my opinion, I think the man's view should be noted
0:29:01 > 0:29:12and if he is a loving partner the man's view...Noted? OK.Go on.I
0:29:12 > 0:29:16just think it is a disgusting thing to say, that the man does not have a
0:29:16 > 0:29:20voice and doesn't have a choice. Ultimately it is the woman that has
0:29:20 > 0:29:24to go through the pregnancy and the birth and unless you are a woman who
0:29:24 > 0:29:27has been through a pregnancy, you don't know what it feels like to be
0:29:27 > 0:29:33pregnant.You don't know what to feel sick to be a father.Of course
0:29:33 > 0:29:39not, but the woman is the one who has emotionally and physically
0:29:39 > 0:29:42consumed by being pregnant, either positively when it is a happy equity
0:29:42 > 0:29:49or negatively when it is a crisis. Do men not have emotions? I'm not
0:29:49 > 0:29:56saying they don't but...Many crisis pregnancy is the father is not
0:29:56 > 0:30:00there.I wish we had more time with this but thank you all very much.
0:30:00 > 0:30:05Give them a round of applause.
0:30:08 > 0:30:10In a moment, Northern Ireland striker Kyle Lafferty
0:30:10 > 0:30:12is in the studio to talk to us about his gambling addiction.
0:30:12 > 0:30:14But first, have a listen to this.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17Derry girl Rachel O'Connor made a huge splash on The Voice
0:30:17 > 0:30:24a couple of years ago.
0:30:24 > 0:30:34#
0:30:36 > 0:30:42From so far away ... #.
0:30:42 > 0:30:44Since then, she's had a cheerleader in Kylie Minogue.
0:30:44 > 0:30:50Here singing her new single, Done With Your Love,
0:30:50 > 0:31:00Rachel O'Connor.
0:31:13 > 0:31:16# I don't know where I'm going, I only know where I've been.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19# And if I had a dollar for every fight we've
0:31:19 > 0:31:22# I'd have made all my millions by the end of my teens.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24# Instead of settling down I'd be living the dream.
0:31:24 > 0:31:27# I know what you're thinking, I can tell by your eyes.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30# I need someone to save me and I'm too young to decide.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33# But I'm on a roll, so don't waste your time.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35# I don't need your blessings, I'm sure I'll be fine.
0:31:35 > 0:31:36# I, I, I,
0:31:36 > 0:31:38# Wanna have fun, fun, fun
0:31:38 > 0:31:40# To the beat of my drum, drum, drum.
0:31:40 > 0:31:42# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:31:42 > 0:31:44# You, you, you
0:31:44 > 0:31:45# Gotta move on, on, on.
0:31:45 > 0:31:47# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:31:49 > 0:31:53# You say I can't live without you no matter how hard I try.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56# That I'm too loud around you and I should be more polite.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59# But when you look in the mirror and not by your side,
0:31:59 > 0:32:02# Only you'll be the one that's keeping you up at night.
0:32:02 > 0:32:04# When I'm good as gone, you'll be calling my name.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07# Saying baby where are you, you know it's getting late.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10# But I'm on a roll, so don't waste your breath.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13# I'm out of control and I got no regrets.
0:32:13 > 0:32:15# I, I, I,
0:32:15 > 0:32:18# Wanna have fun, fun, fun
0:32:18 > 0:32:22# To the beat of my drum, drum, drum.
0:32:22 > 0:32:25# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:32:25 > 0:32:27# You, you, you
0:32:27 > 0:32:31# Gotta move on, on, on.
0:32:31 > 0:32:34# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.
0:32:34 > 0:32:38# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:32:38 > 0:32:44# I got the beauty and the brains, brains, brains.
0:32:44 > 0:32:46# But you tell me I should change, change, change.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49# I got the beauty and the brains, brains, brains.
0:32:49 > 0:32:51# I'm done with your love.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54# I got the beauty and the brains, brains, brains.
0:32:54 > 0:32:56# But you tell me I should change, change, change.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00# I got the beauty and the brains, brains, brains.
0:33:00 > 0:33:03# I'm done with your love.
0:33:03 > 0:33:05# I, I, I,
0:33:05 > 0:33:07# Wanna have fun, fun, fun
0:33:07 > 0:33:11# To the beat of my drum, drum, drum.
0:33:11 > 0:33:14# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:33:14 > 0:33:17# You, you, you
0:33:17 > 0:33:20# Gotta move on, on, on.
0:33:20 > 0:33:26# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.
0:33:26 > 0:33:32# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:33:32 > 0:33:33# I, I, I,
0:33:33 > 0:33:34# Wanna have fun, fun, fun
0:33:34 > 0:33:37# To the beat of my drum, drum, drum.
0:33:37 > 0:33:43# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love.
0:33:43 > 0:33:44# You, you, you
0:33:44 > 0:33:47# Gotta move on, on, on.
0:33:47 > 0:33:54# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.
0:33:54 > 0:34:00# I'm done with your love, I'm done with your love #.
0:34:00 > 0:34:08APPLAUSE Great stuff. Let's get into our next
0:34:08 > 0:34:15debate tonight.
0:34:15 > 0:34:17It's been revealed that Northern Ireland has the biggest
0:34:17 > 0:34:20proportion of problem gamblers in the whole of the UK,
0:34:20 > 0:34:22where more than two million people are either problem gamblers
0:34:22 > 0:34:23or at risk of addiction.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25With us is to discuss is Northern Ireland
0:34:25 > 0:34:26footballer Kyle Lafferty,
0:34:26 > 0:34:31who himself has struggled with a serious gambling addiction.
0:34:31 > 0:34:33Let's welcome Kyle to the show tonight.
0:34:33 > 0:34:37APPLAUSE And our second highest goal scorer
0:34:37 > 0:34:44of all-time, sir. Congratulations. Listen, let's... Thank you for
0:34:44 > 0:34:49coming over and talking to us about this, I know it's personal. When it
0:34:49 > 0:34:55was really bad, what does it feel like when you're trapped in this
0:34:55 > 0:35:03addiction?Lonely. Everything seems to go against you. I think it's a
0:35:03 > 0:35:11place that I've been and I don't think anyone has a chance to get out
0:35:11 > 0:35:17of there, get out as quick as possible. There is help everywhere.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21Everywhere you look you can get help. I was too embarrassed to get
0:35:21 > 0:35:26help because of what I've done and who I was.Where were you losing it,
0:35:26 > 0:35:33on the horses, in the bookies, where was it? Football. When you could bet
0:35:33 > 0:35:39on football I was betting on cumulators and stuff like that. Then
0:35:39 > 0:35:44you couldn't bet on football. Obviously, me liking, enjoying a
0:35:44 > 0:35:51bet, it was just wanting to bet on something. I took up horseracing,
0:35:51 > 0:35:55which I knew nothing about it. I went for the colour of the jersey,
0:35:55 > 0:36:00the name of the horse. Everything. Are we aubg talking big money here
0:36:00 > 0:36:06in a bet?Yeah, big enough. Obviously, at this stage I was
0:36:06 > 0:36:11earning decent money for my age. I didn't really have the concept of
0:36:11 > 0:36:19money. I didn't really respect it and...Look, I'm not going to go
0:36:19 > 0:36:24into this in detail. It's your personal life, but, you know, we are
0:36:24 > 0:36:30talking here some bets £100,000 or big, big amounts of money?
0:36:30 > 0:36:35Obviously, it all depends if I was winning or losing. If I kept on
0:36:35 > 0:36:42losing, the next race, the next dog, the bet would double. It was always
0:36:42 > 0:36:47difficult when you're losing you want to win that money back. Win it
0:36:47 > 0:36:52back in the next race. Sometimes it wasn't always the case.Help me
0:36:52 > 0:36:57understand why you don't stop because common sense tells you that
0:36:57 > 0:37:03you're going to lose big in the long run?Yeah, of course. I think -Why
0:37:03 > 0:37:09don't you stop when it hurts so bad and you feel like crap?It's
0:37:09 > 0:37:13difficult because you know what you're going to win one race. If
0:37:13 > 0:37:16you've enough on, it it's going to cover the last ten bets that you
0:37:16 > 0:37:22lost on.Was it affecting your mood? Was it affecting how you got on with
0:37:22 > 0:37:30people around you?Not really. I'm one of those bubbly people that
0:37:30 > 0:37:36enjoys a joke, a bit of banter. But a lot of people asked me if it
0:37:36 > 0:37:39affected my football. I don't think it has. I think on the football
0:37:39 > 0:37:44pitch was probably the place I enjoyed the most.Did you tell
0:37:44 > 0:37:48anybody?I think people, my team-mates, people close to me knew
0:37:48 > 0:37:54I liked a bet, but how severe it was, I think it's only really my
0:37:54 > 0:38:00wife now that has really understood how bad it was. Obviously, having
0:38:00 > 0:38:03her by my side is one of the reasons why I've come out, having someone
0:38:03 > 0:38:09like that beside me. It means it's slightly easier.What was the lowest
0:38:09 > 0:38:19point, Kyle?Um... I don't really have one point that stands out, but
0:38:19 > 0:38:25I remember one Sunday afternoon I was... I went out for lunch with
0:38:25 > 0:38:29some of my team-mates and I came back after, in the house by myself,
0:38:29 > 0:38:33the horseracing was on, Sunday afternoon, I just kept on betting
0:38:33 > 0:38:39and betting and betting and I wasn't winning. Days before I won quite a
0:38:39 > 0:38:45bit of money. I managed to blow that, spent a bit of my own money I
0:38:45 > 0:38:51was down to the last two races and I proper lumped on. Lucky for me, I
0:38:51 > 0:38:57won all my money back. I think I might have been down £2,000 overall.
0:38:57 > 0:39:04That was probably my lowest part. Lowest point in me betting because I
0:39:04 > 0:39:09won so much money, managed to blow it, then I went into my own bank
0:39:09 > 0:39:13account and spent a lot of it. Luckily for me, as I said, I won
0:39:13 > 0:39:22most of it back.I guess the majority of people can go and gamble
0:39:22 > 0:39:29and it's fun, it's a hobby and they think there are too many draconia
0:39:29 > 0:39:33rules being proposed around gambling?Yeah, there is. I think
0:39:33 > 0:39:40people can go and enjoy a bet, but two or three years ago I spoke to my
0:39:40 > 0:39:44wife I said I had a problem.How hard was that sitting down telling
0:39:44 > 0:39:49her for the first time?It was quite easy because she understood me and I
0:39:49 > 0:39:55understood her. If I came to herred and told her the truth, I knew she'd
0:39:55 > 0:40:00be there. If I was going to keep things from her, gamble behind her
0:40:00 > 0:40:04back, that is when things get difficult. Luckily, I've got her by
0:40:04 > 0:40:09my side and I'm thankful for her, but...Are you like an alcoholic or
0:40:09 > 0:40:12other people with addictions, are you afraid you might go back there
0:40:12 > 0:40:20again? Are you afraid to touch it? I've been off - I've took periods of
0:40:20 > 0:40:27time over the last maybe two years. I might have lost a sum of money and
0:40:27 > 0:40:34then I said to myself, I'm stopping. I went six to eight weeks or ten
0:40:34 > 0:40:39weeks when I hadn't had a bet. Something clicks inside me. Maybe
0:40:39 > 0:40:42come home from training, nip into the bookies I lose and I lose. I'm
0:40:42 > 0:40:48going home and I'm on my phone. From the second that you open your phone
0:40:48 > 0:40:54to get on to an online app it takes 10, 15 second you could have a bet
0:40:54 > 0:40:59placed within a minute. So it's... It's very easy to bet.What do you
0:40:59 > 0:41:03think about the advertising of gambling around football matches.
0:41:03 > 0:41:07You know, you can't watch a football match. You can hardly watch
0:41:07 > 0:41:12late-night TV any more without ads prompting you to gamble?Yeah, it's
0:41:12 > 0:41:24everywhere. They name football trophies after it William Hill Cup.
0:41:24 > 0:41:33It's everywhere. When I'm watching football, half time it pops up, 4-1,
0:41:33 > 0:41:383-1. Everywhere you look it's there. It's so easy to place a bet now. So
0:41:38 > 0:41:43it's a difficult time to be in. Peter Keogh, you are with us
0:41:43 > 0:41:49tonight. Hi, Peter.Hi, Stephen. Thank you for coming in.You lost
0:41:49 > 0:41:56your son four years ago? Four years ago coming up on the 1st November.
0:41:56 > 0:42:05Through gambling?Through gambling. Utterly through gambling. If I could
0:42:05 > 0:42:09just go back, something Kyle said, hello Kyle, I haven't seen you for a
0:42:09 > 0:42:13long time, we're both from North Fermanagh, that is where he started
0:42:13 > 0:42:21his football. Lewis took his own life four years ago coming up the
0:42:21 > 0:42:251st November, and it was purely as a result of his addiction to gambling
0:42:25 > 0:42:31that he realised he couldn't do anything about. You asked Kyle a
0:42:31 > 0:42:35question about, could you just not walk away from the gambling, can you
0:42:35 > 0:42:43just not stop it. It's like all the other great addictions, alcohol,
0:42:43 > 0:42:49cigarettes, cocaine, like all the drugs. Since Lewis died, Sadie, my
0:42:49 > 0:42:52wife and I, have done research into gambling, the one bit of research
0:42:52 > 0:42:58that sticks in my mind all the time is one that was done in Barclay
0:42:58 > 0:43:06University in California. They wired up a drug addict, a heroin addict
0:43:06 > 0:43:13and a gambling addict. They got them to do the things they like best.
0:43:13 > 0:43:27Have a gamble, have a fix. The hit they got gave the same reactions. To
0:43:27 > 0:43:31say you can stop gambling is like saying to a heroin addict, stop
0:43:31 > 0:43:36tomorrow, you will be all right. When your son Lewis died he had reo
0:43:36 > 0:43:44mortgaged his home.Yes.He had tens of thousands of pounds of debt?Yep.
0:43:44 > 0:43:50What was his gambling on?His apartment was in Leeds near
0:43:50 > 0:43:53Headingley. When you looked out of his kitchen window at night you
0:43:53 > 0:43:59could see the lights of the local casino. We found after he died, I
0:43:59 > 0:44:04mean, we were in contact on a very regular basis with him. You can't
0:44:04 > 0:44:07get inside a person's head on the phone. He was a huge sportsman, he
0:44:07 > 0:44:12would have talked about it. Life and sport and whatever else. But he was
0:44:12 > 0:44:17good at hiding his, I suppose he had a guilt about it.Yeah.But, at the
0:44:17 > 0:44:23end, he was doing it all on the internet. You know.The internet is
0:44:23 > 0:44:27very interesting territory, isn't it? Some of the land based
0:44:27 > 0:44:30bookmakers will say that, look, while they are getting a lot of
0:44:30 > 0:44:34pressure and a lot of criticism about these fixed odd terminals, you
0:44:34 > 0:44:39know, they would argue that people can - there at least some controls
0:44:39 > 0:44:42in those land based bookmakers and you can see what people are betting
0:44:42 > 0:44:47on. Whereas on the internet, there are supposed to be control, but is
0:44:47 > 0:44:52there?No.With peep their bedrooms, you know, as much money as they
0:44:52 > 0:44:58have, they can gamble. Let us talk to Paddy Power tonight who is
0:44:58 > 0:44:58joining us down-the-line.
0:45:03 > 0:45:10Paddy, do you think the internet is a dangerous place for people who are
0:45:10 > 0:45:18out of control?For somebody who was out of control, yes. But the one
0:45:18 > 0:45:23thing you could say about online gambling is that it does give you
0:45:23 > 0:45:28more potential to control your own actions because every bookmaker
0:45:28 > 0:45:34online, I can only speak for Paddy Power, they do offer this, deposit
0:45:34 > 0:45:38limits on yourself when you open your account or setting loss limits,
0:45:38 > 0:45:42excluding yourself from some games. Kyle talked about excluding yourself
0:45:42 > 0:45:49over the weekend...Obviously a gambling addict is probably not at
0:45:49 > 0:45:51the start going to restrict the amount they are going to lose
0:45:51 > 0:45:55because they always think they will eventually win, so here is the
0:45:55 > 0:46:01question. When a company like yours or any other gambling company online
0:46:01 > 0:46:05sees people blowing thousands of pounds in an hour or a couple of
0:46:05 > 0:46:10hours, do you ask them if they are all right or intervene?We do,
0:46:10 > 0:46:16positive intervention. We have modelling built now which can
0:46:16 > 0:46:19predict people's behaviour and when that becomes erratic we can
0:46:19 > 0:46:24intervene and contact. It is up to the person themselves ultimately...
0:46:24 > 0:46:29So it is not the industry's responsibility to intervene and say
0:46:29 > 0:46:37you are OK?It is not to diagnose a problem, but we contact you and say
0:46:37 > 0:46:42your behaviour suggests you may have an issue, you sure you're
0:46:42 > 0:46:46comfortable?Just so people can be confident that you actually mean
0:46:46 > 0:46:50that, if there is anybody that can demonstrate watching this programme
0:46:50 > 0:46:54tonight that they are blowing thousands of pounds and you haven't
0:46:54 > 0:46:59intervened, would you give their money back?It depends on their
0:46:59 > 0:47:03behaviour, it is not the amount of money, but the erratic this.If
0:47:03 > 0:47:06someone has blown ten grand in a night and they have just joined and
0:47:06 > 0:47:11you know nothing about them, would you give their money back if you
0:47:11 > 0:47:15haven't intervened? The proof is in the pudding.We know something about
0:47:15 > 0:47:19them because we have to do lots of checks with sources of funds.No you
0:47:19 > 0:47:26don't. You have 48 hours to do it, that is not true. You did not to
0:47:26 > 0:47:30start checking before they start gambling. We check all our
0:47:30 > 0:47:37customers.Afterwards. It takes about 24 hours to come through, that
0:47:37 > 0:47:45is true.The first 24 hours if someone loses their shirt?They can
0:47:45 > 0:47:51bet as they want when they open their account, they have the
0:47:51 > 0:47:54opportunity to set limits and how much they want to state. With sports
0:47:54 > 0:47:59betting there will be limits on each sport and category and how much we
0:47:59 > 0:48:04allow someone to bet and then we get to know our customers a bit better
0:48:04 > 0:48:10through behaviour and then we can develop a stronger relationship.The
0:48:10 > 0:48:16fixed stall terminals when people walking their and our betting 50
0:48:16 > 0:48:22quid or 100 quid stakes, to the shop owners, London Tabeen and stop them
0:48:22 > 0:48:26and say you are OK or can someone to win and bet to their hearts content?
0:48:26 > 0:48:33It is funny you should bring it up because we are waiting the result of
0:48:33 > 0:48:37the review of the Government in Westminster and we expect some sort
0:48:37 > 0:48:41of reduction in the maximum stakes on fixed odds betting terminals. We
0:48:41 > 0:48:46have suggested that the stake is reduced to ten quid but it is quite
0:48:46 > 0:48:52a hot topic at the moment as I am sure you are aware. With those fixed
0:48:52 > 0:48:56odds betting terminals there are cooling off limits where you can
0:48:56 > 0:49:00play for a certain amount of time and you realise you have been
0:49:00 > 0:49:04playing first a certain amount of time...And you hit the button and
0:49:04 > 0:49:07three seconds later you are gambling again, but is a real deterrent isn't
0:49:07 > 0:49:16it? That is what you are saying is a protection?I will ask you, what you
0:49:16 > 0:49:22need to do is to empower people to take control of their own actions.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25Imagine saying: alcoholic there is a drink right in front of you, don't
0:49:25 > 0:49:29worry we are being responsible, in three seconds you can dig a drink,
0:49:29 > 0:49:37do you really wanted? Imagine a drink, in three seconds...It is a
0:49:37 > 0:49:40very emotive images are putting at third but also why don't you
0:49:40 > 0:49:43mentioned that not every single person sitting in that pub is an
0:49:43 > 0:49:46alcoholic. A lot of people out there having a drink. Do you not serve a
0:49:46 > 0:49:52drink to anyone because of one alcoholic? You have measures in
0:49:52 > 0:49:55place which can hurt the people who are vulnerable and those who do
0:49:55 > 0:49:58develop problem but the reality is a lot of people don't develop problem
0:49:58 > 0:50:03with gambling and I 100% agree. I am not trying to argue against the
0:50:03 > 0:50:05existence of gambling initiatives, it is one of the most difficult
0:50:05 > 0:50:11addictions and it is difficult, you see from the stories. As an operator
0:50:11 > 0:50:17and provider of betting services our job is to offer an environment that
0:50:17 > 0:50:20is as responsible as can be but still allow people to have a bet.
0:50:20 > 0:50:25That is why we have you here tonight because you enjoy it, Harry, if you
0:50:25 > 0:50:30lose money you plummet into July.I understand the analogy -- planet
0:50:30 > 0:50:36into your life. The problem is with the fixed odds betting terminals,
0:50:36 > 0:50:46nobody wins.That is not true, is it? Those terminals, nobody wins.
0:50:46 > 0:50:51Explain to me how you enjoy losing money.I don't, I enjoy winning
0:50:51 > 0:50:57money. That is one of the things about gambling, if they are going to
0:50:57 > 0:51:00gamble they have to see it is trying to win and not just gambled. I don't
0:51:00 > 0:51:05understand why anyone would ever play fixed odds betting terminals
0:51:05 > 0:51:08anyway, you have the red on the black so the factor is agreement
0:51:08 > 0:51:11there you will be slightly odds against so you are doing wrong thing
0:51:11 > 0:51:15by having a bet in the first place but on a fixed odds betting terminal
0:51:15 > 0:51:18have you know it is straight? At least an old-fashioned casinos you
0:51:18 > 0:51:23have a table in tragedy, who knows what goes on.Help me with your
0:51:23 > 0:51:33mindset.It is a bad sports betting, nothing wrong with that. There are
0:51:33 > 0:51:37not bad things going on with this fixed odds betting terminals but
0:51:37 > 0:51:42what we don't talk about, Paddy won't tell you just how big people
0:51:42 > 0:51:45are playing on them and how big the profits are other companies in
0:51:45 > 0:51:49London. It is nearly all the machines. They don't get money out
0:51:49 > 0:51:58of purses or sport come to dissolve the machines. Oche horses or sport.
0:51:58 > 0:52:03The it is adults making decisions for themselves with their money and
0:52:03 > 0:52:07the vast majority are choosing to do so and are in control.In 34 years
0:52:07 > 0:52:12if you want them bet on red or black in the casino you have the power
0:52:12 > 0:52:15member and it takes 24 hours. Nowadays you need is a credit card
0:52:15 > 0:52:22number. The woman who lost the sun, when you talk about comparing
0:52:22 > 0:52:26addictions, gambling is worse than any of them. When he said earlier on
0:52:26 > 0:52:30his mood is not affected by his losses and it doesn't affect how he
0:52:30 > 0:52:34plays the ball, I tell you it does. Gambling affects everything. Even if
0:52:34 > 0:52:39you are a successful gambler, how you beloved lunch gambling is a
0:52:39 > 0:52:43serious business.I deeply appreciate you coming on because I
0:52:43 > 0:52:47know you don't have to, so thank you for doing this, Paddy, I hope the
0:52:47 > 0:52:55industry does become as responsible as it possibly can.It is not about
0:52:55 > 0:52:59a responsible, it is about educating. People get educated.It
0:52:59 > 0:53:04is too black and white. Let me say to you, thank you for sharing your
0:53:04 > 0:53:08personal story and to you, I am sorry what happened to your son and
0:53:08 > 0:53:14I know you are fighting. Thank you very much. Give our guests a round
0:53:14 > 0:53:25of applause. APPLAUSE
0:53:26 > 0:53:32It is the time I have been dreading. The Wednesday Weigh-in at the
0:53:32 > 0:53:47production team is so excited about. I haven't really started.
0:53:48 > 0:53:53They have made a nice little graphics about this. I'm getting
0:53:53 > 0:53:57tortured by the team. They said had he done this? And be done that? I
0:53:57 > 0:54:02say no. They say have you been good? I say no. Where were you last night?
0:54:02 > 0:54:07A Chinese restaurant on the Newtownards Road. Where was I at 12
0:54:07 > 0:54:11o'clock last night. I had McDonald's. This thing has been a
0:54:11 > 0:54:15disaster. An absolute disaster. But it says here in the autocue I should
0:54:15 > 0:54:19say a really big thank you to everyone who has been in touch to
0:54:19 > 0:54:23support me on Facebook and Twitter. You have been telling me your
0:54:23 > 0:54:26stories and offering lots of advice which I have been completely
0:54:26 > 0:54:30ignoring and this man here has been forced into the studio. Give Andy
0:54:30 > 0:54:33Ward a round of applause. APPLAUSE
0:54:33 > 0:54:39Good to see you. Andy is the personal trainer who I am completely
0:54:39 > 0:54:43and utterly ignoring. That is the bottom line. I will get up on the
0:54:43 > 0:54:51scales here. I've eaten slightly less than I had last week. I was 21
0:54:51 > 0:55:02point five. You were 21.9.21.4. 21.4!
0:55:02 > 0:55:10APPLAUSE I don't know why we were applauding.
0:55:10 > 0:55:17It could have been better.I know how I did it. Before the show I went
0:55:17 > 0:55:26for a to. I promise I'm going to start.This is your personal tracker
0:55:26 > 0:55:30for everyone in your production team will stop this will go on your
0:55:30 > 0:55:36wrist. I would love to put on your ankle.I will take that off and give
0:55:36 > 0:55:44it to Lafferty.Everybody is witnessing this. It is going to
0:55:44 > 0:55:51monitor everything you do, sleeping. Hopefully not everything I do! For
0:55:51 > 0:55:54everyone who decides to join us in the bigot by it and the country and
0:55:54 > 0:56:01their own fitness plan, -- this fitness plan. It is not too late to
0:56:01 > 0:56:05tell us how much weight you have lost this week we will be taking a
0:56:05 > 0:56:17running total, here is how you can get in touch.
0:56:21 > 0:56:24This show is about to get even more farcical because the centre of the
0:56:24 > 0:56:28universe by Halloween and dress up as apparently Londonderry. It has
0:56:28 > 0:56:36been voted the best place in the world to sorbitol wean by
0:56:36 > 0:56:38It's been voted the best place in the world to celebrate Hallowe'en
0:56:38 > 0:56:40to celebrate Hallowe'en
0:56:40 > 0:56:42by USA Today and last night they even had a Hallowe'en parade
0:56:42 > 0:56:44for the city's dogs up there.
0:56:44 > 0:56:54Have a look at this.
0:56:59 > 0:57:04wonderful. Someone had the great idea. As Belfast Fashion Week starts
0:57:04 > 0:57:05tomorrow...
0:57:05 > 0:57:08Now, as Belfast Fashion Week starts tomorrow, we thought it would be
0:57:08 > 0:57:12timely to bring back a few Derry dogs, and who better to talk us
0:57:12 > 0:57:16through their spooky outfits than this stylish lady.
0:57:16 > 0:57:23Here we go. We're running out of time.First up is Boomer. And
0:57:23 > 0:57:26Catherine is dressed as a skeleton. That is the biggest skills than I
0:57:26 > 0:57:36have ever seen, I will tell you. Boomer lost to chase birds and he
0:57:36 > 0:57:45still check in from the table. This is Alison the medieval witch and
0:57:45 > 0:58:02Bobby. Here is Captain America. And Jock the Jack Russell.But that
0:58:02 > 0:58:15this!This is Rosco and the zombie bride is Kira. She is the mummy.
0:58:15 > 0:58:32Beautiful.Here is the baby lions coming.Here we go. The two which is
0:58:32 > 0:58:51our Cristina and Eimear. A, come on. -- Emma. There is the way pug.Get
0:58:51 > 0:58:58yourself over there. We have one additional late entry, ladies and
0:58:58 > 0:59:06gentlemen. We have a skateboarding dog!Steven, it has got your face on
0:59:06 > 0:59:19it. It was the image of you.There she goes, but! -- look.The same
0:59:19 > 0:59:25amount of chin.Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for
0:59:25 > 0:59:29joining us for this quite farcical end to the show tonight. Have our
0:59:29 > 0:59:35pets all round of applause. Thank you for watching everybody. See you
0:59:35 > 0:59:47next Wednesday. APPLAUSE