0:00:04 > 0:00:07Tonight, a special Nolan team investigation into
0:00:07 > 0:00:12the Northern Ireland names we've discovered in the Paradise Papers.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15And, on the 30th anniversary of one of the worst atrocities
0:00:15 > 0:00:18of the Troubles, we'll be talking to some of the people
0:00:18 > 0:00:28who were caught up in the terrible events of the Enniskillen bomb.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53The big story this week, of course, is the revelations coming out
0:00:53 > 0:01:00of the so-called Paradise Papers, and we've been hearing
0:01:00 > 0:01:02about the various tax-dodging celebs and super-rich putting their money
0:01:02 > 0:01:04offshore to avoid paying their tax.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07The Nolan Show has had access to millions of leaked documents
0:01:07 > 0:01:10as part of the global investigation by the International Consortium
0:01:10 > 0:01:15of Investigative Journalists, and we have been concentrating
0:01:15 > 0:01:18on the Northern Ireland angle - people from here who have been
0:01:18 > 0:01:22involved in these schemes in places like Mauritius.
0:01:22 > 0:01:28We had a massive reaction to this from our listeners
0:01:28 > 0:01:31on the radio this morning, and we'll be running more detailed
0:01:31 > 0:01:38revelations on radio over the course of the next few days.
0:01:38 > 0:01:45Welcome to a corner this is a beautiful Ireland to track burn you
0:01:45 > 0:01:50do. It is a lot more than just a few pretty beaches. This place attracts
0:01:50 > 0:01:55billions of dollars from all across the globe. From the super-rich to
0:01:55 > 0:02:04big business. This week, the BBC's panorama have been leading a site
0:02:04 > 0:02:08about how the super-rich have been pulling their money off shore and
0:02:08 > 0:02:13avoiding paying tax. Our Nolan Show investigation finds that many from
0:02:13 > 0:02:18Northern Ireland were also involved in similar schemes, one of those
0:02:18 > 0:02:22islands is six and a half thousand miles away. The CV of the first name
0:02:22 > 0:02:29we are looking at boasts of having... David chick on the right
0:02:29 > 0:02:35here has been in on the board for the last 20 years, the last seven as
0:02:35 > 0:02:45the club chairman. David resigned in 1997, but today, he is still the
0:02:45 > 0:02:50club is my president and a significant shareholder. He is also
0:02:50 > 0:02:55one of Northern Ireland's most successful property developers. Here
0:02:55 > 0:03:01are years with the property development minister at the opening
0:03:01 > 0:03:08of the re-furbish tobacco factory. Along with his business partner Jim
0:03:08 > 0:03:17Davis, David transformed this building would be help of £1.3
0:03:17 > 0:03:19million of taxpayer's money. He was
0:03:19 > 0:03:26not so keen on paying tax.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29companies in Mauritius.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33But then he needed £600,000 back to help develop a site
0:03:33 > 0:03:38in County Down for another of his businesses.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42So their UK company took a loan from another seemingly
0:03:42 > 0:03:47unconnected offshore company.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50But that money was then paid back, to the lender,
0:03:50 > 0:03:57not by the Northern Ireland firm, but by Mr Chick's Mauritian company.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00The effect was moving money from Mauritius to the UK without any
0:04:00 > 0:04:04UK tax being liable.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08We've seen documents that show Mr Chick's advisers
0:04:08 > 0:04:12had warned him that, if he transferred the money back
0:04:12 > 0:04:15into the UK as cash rather than a loan, it would have been
0:04:15 > 0:04:21liable for 45% tax.
0:04:21 > 0:04:28On £600,000, that would have been a tax bill of £270,000.
0:04:28 > 0:04:33Now, although Jim Davis benefited from this loan,
0:04:33 > 0:04:35it went into the Northern Ireland property company he had a stake
0:04:35 > 0:04:38in with David Chick.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40We do not have evidence that Mr Davis avoided tax
0:04:40 > 0:04:43by this transaction.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45His role was assisting Chick in flushing money out of this
0:04:45 > 0:04:50Mauritian company tax-free.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54Neither Mr Chick nor Mr Davis wanted to talk to us.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58But their lawyers told us in a statement that: "Every
0:04:58 > 0:05:00individual is entitled to order his or her tax affairs
0:05:00 > 0:05:09in a tax-efficient manner".
0:05:09 > 0:05:12Mr Chick's lawyer also said he had acted on specialist legal advice
0:05:12 > 0:05:14with regard to the loan, and would not have proceeded
0:05:14 > 0:05:18if there was any suggestion that it was not entirely legitimate.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21Their lawyers advised Mr Chick and Mr Davis not to talk to us,
0:05:21 > 0:05:30but I tracked down David Chick outside his offices in Belfast.
0:05:30 > 0:05:36Stephen Nolan from the BBC, the £600,000 that you brought home from
0:05:36 > 0:05:41Mauritius, Mr Check, have you told HMR see it is your money? Have you
0:05:41 > 0:05:52told them it is your money? This building, Mr check, do you not think
0:05:52 > 0:05:57they should pay this money back? The loan that you took out, do you have
0:05:57 > 0:06:01any intention to pay this back? Any intention whatsoever? You said that
0:06:01 > 0:06:05you have got influence of the very top of Government, who was that you
0:06:05 > 0:06:12are talking about, Mr Check? Surely the taxpayer is entitled to some
0:06:12 > 0:06:20answers. Have you any tension of -- any intention of letting the
0:06:20 > 0:06:26taxpayers have money back?Pay back the loan? I took advice from
0:06:26 > 0:06:31lawyers.Have you paid that money back the yet, misty Chick? Have you
0:06:31 > 0:06:46anything to say?To make it clear, Mr Chick said he did have intentions
0:06:46 > 0:06:54to pay it back.Chris Butler has been looking through documents with
0:06:54 > 0:06:58us. What else have we discovered? Plenty more information about people
0:06:58 > 0:07:02and money from Northern Ireland in the Paradise Papers, in fact, one of
0:07:02 > 0:07:08the many schemes operating in the Mauritius, here is something for
0:07:08 > 0:07:13you, over a quarter of the companies from here.We covered one of those
0:07:13 > 0:07:18stories in detail on the radio this morning. It is time to meet the
0:07:18 > 0:07:28Antrim couple Sam and Julie McRae, spring farm architectural mouldings
0:07:28 > 0:07:38and -- limited, is their business. They have been on TV before. We can
0:07:38 > 0:07:45give the customer exactly what they want.So, that is Sam McCrea, his
0:07:45 > 0:07:49wife was also on the telly. She was clearly very proud of their
0:07:49 > 0:07:53company's success.We are constantly looking at everything, re-evaluating
0:07:53 > 0:07:57it, making sure that things are working properly.Now once again the
0:07:57 > 0:08:01Company finds itself nominated for the excellence award and in this
0:08:01 > 0:08:05cause Northern Ireland they are hoping they will have to find even
0:08:05 > 0:08:09more room in the trophy cabinets. They have had hundreds of thousands
0:08:09 > 0:08:18of pounds of taxpayers money. Paying tax, they are rather less keen. In
0:08:18 > 0:08:26the Paradise Papers files we found something particularly odd. The
0:08:26 > 0:08:32large premises in Antrim was estimated at being worth £4 million,
0:08:32 > 0:08:36a multi-million pound company. -- property. The next year, they appear
0:08:36 > 0:08:40to simply give it away. Documents show £1 was paid for the
0:08:40 > 0:08:51multi-million pound property. That is a pound. They were seemingly not
0:08:51 > 0:08:55connected with the property. It was found it was bought by a company in
0:08:55 > 0:09:04the Mauritius. Basically, that is a bit like owning a house, giving it
0:09:04 > 0:09:11away to someone and then paying them rent for you using the house you've
0:09:11 > 0:09:15just given them. It sounds mad, doesn't it? Are not trying to avoid
0:09:15 > 0:09:21tax.Here is a key question. Was this trust that basically had been
0:09:21 > 0:09:25gifted this property really independent? Reasonable answer is no
0:09:25 > 0:09:32given what we have seen. Documents show clear control with both
0:09:32 > 0:09:36advising how that company should spend its money. Even telling it to
0:09:36 > 0:09:41buy shares from Sam McRae himself. We have to scrub at the £200,000 was
0:09:41 > 0:09:45transferred from that company Mauritius into some great's bank
0:09:45 > 0:09:53account, that was alone and therefore not liable for tax. We
0:09:53 > 0:09:56asked for a statement, but they didn't want to talk to us. The
0:09:56 > 0:10:01lawyers said the point is that we put to them were untrue, to family
0:10:01 > 0:10:04tree and particularly unpleasant slurs on to people who have brought
0:10:04 > 0:10:14prosperity and employment of the Antrim area. They also said...
0:10:22 > 0:10:31As for invest NI say they are aware of it, but it is between them and
0:10:31 > 0:10:39HMR see. They will be the case as would be normal practice.It is
0:10:39 > 0:10:43important to say that tax avoidance and what we have seen so far is not
0:10:43 > 0:10:46illegal. Bank that, we know that. What do you reckon, is there enough
0:10:46 > 0:10:52that they pay as little pub tax as possible or should we be making
0:10:52 > 0:10:56people to pay their fair share for schools and hospitals and public
0:10:56 > 0:10:59services? Lets talk more generally now, not talking about those
0:10:59 > 0:11:06individual cases at all, this is general. Charlie Wolf, is aggressive
0:11:06 > 0:11:09tax avoidance acceptable?If it's legal, it's fair, that is their fair
0:11:09 > 0:11:14share and they are keeping to the law. Together perspective, the
0:11:14 > 0:11:20lowest 50% of the population pays 9%. The money comes in in tax. The
0:11:20 > 0:11:33lowest 50% pay 50% of the GDP. Within that, that is two thirds, the
0:11:33 > 0:11:38top 1%, 32% of all being come from tax is paid by the top 1%. I don't
0:11:38 > 0:11:41blame them, they are paying more than enough and it was Adam Smith
0:11:41 > 0:11:45who said... You don't even think it is a moral? Not at all. The moral
0:11:45 > 0:11:54parties is there an moral legation to pay tax?It is moral to fund your
0:11:54 > 0:12:00Government.Jim Clark you disagree, you are the CEO of Oxfam or tell us
0:12:00 > 0:12:06why?What we saying is that there is a grand scale tax evasion by
0:12:06 > 0:12:08extremely wealthy individuals.We are talking about avoidance of
0:12:08 > 0:12:13night, that is what we're talking about.Avoidance by multinational
0:12:13 > 0:12:20corporations is ridding the rest of us of the tax revenue that is needed
0:12:20 > 0:12:23to pay for hospitals, essential services, it is driving inequality.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27We now know that the eighth wealthiest people, they are all men,
0:12:27 > 0:12:31in the world, they open their same as the 6 billion poorest people.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35Inequality has been driven extremely and proven by this kind of
0:12:35 > 0:12:38behaviour.The question you're all thinking a home, if you couldn't
0:12:38 > 0:12:48gauge and tax evasion is... , could you, would you?To the audience?
0:12:48 > 0:12:52It's not just individuals. In the papers, it's shown that Oxford and
0:12:52 > 0:12:57Oxford and Cambridge and plenty of other colleges have...I've not seen
0:12:57 > 0:13:01the details about Oxford and Cambridge, but on the issue of tax
0:13:01 > 0:13:07evasion, -- tax avoidance, would you?Is bad enough in Northern
0:13:07 > 0:13:09Ireland that the maintenance loan that our kids can get is roughly
0:13:09 > 0:13:14half of what English students can apply for. So the Northern Ireland
0:13:14 > 0:13:19parents are already disadvantaged. In terms of tax avoidance, are you
0:13:19 > 0:13:22for or against it?If we're struggling we are paying tax on our
0:13:22 > 0:13:25earnings and we are finding out that the portion of that money is being
0:13:25 > 0:13:29put off shore for somebody else's scheme, totally unfair.That's come
0:13:29 > 0:13:30over here, go ahead sir.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38I'm a volunteer driver for cancer focus, bringing people to hospital
0:13:38 > 0:13:43for cancer treatment. We do tremendous work supporting adults
0:13:43 > 0:13:48and children.Talk to me, tell me what you think.What is the
0:13:48 > 0:13:51government going to do to clamp down on all of those hoarding money
0:13:51 > 0:13:57overseas to avoid paying tax?Let me come you down the front, I need you
0:13:57 > 0:14:01to tell me what you think, not read from a page fullhow do you avoid
0:14:01 > 0:14:09tax? I didn't study this stuff in school. So how do you know?
0:14:09 > 0:14:15APPLAUSE If you could get away with it, would
0:14:15 > 0:14:25you do it, honestly?Yeah.Why?It's more money for me. Why would I pay
0:14:25 > 0:14:38for politicians that don't even do anything? It's better if I have it.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41The fact that much tax avoidance is legal shows you there is something
0:14:41 > 0:14:46very long with -- very wrong with our society and that our government
0:14:46 > 0:14:50and many governments across the world share the interests of a tiny,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54wealthy elite and not the ordinary citizens of their countries. If the
0:14:54 > 0:15:00UK Government was serious about tackling tax avoidance, tax evasion,
0:15:00 > 0:15:05and closing these loopholes, asked yourself this, why did David
0:15:05 > 0:15:09Cameron's government get rid of 11,000 HMRC staff, and why did
0:15:09 > 0:15:14Theresa May as Prime Minister want to get rid of 8000 more?But they
0:15:14 > 0:15:18can't close down every single loophole, can they? Do you think the
0:15:18 > 0:15:25individual citizen has a responsibility to not milk it,
0:15:25 > 0:15:28amoral aggregation?Absolutely, because we live in a society where
0:15:28 > 0:15:34we are increasingly told that our actions should not relate to the
0:15:34 > 0:15:39consequences of every pound squirrelled away in a tax haven in
0:15:39 > 0:15:41Mauritius, Panama, the Cayman Islands is a pound that isn't spent
0:15:41 > 0:15:48in your NHS.But that is just not true. Your thesis is based on the
0:15:48 > 0:15:51point that you can trust government to be really efficient with our
0:15:51 > 0:15:57money. Every pound would go into the NHS. I tell you what, how many
0:15:57 > 0:16:02pounds are wasted by governments and bureaucracy and civil servants? Why
0:16:02 > 0:16:07shouldn't the population hold on to the very, very last penny that they
0:16:07 > 0:16:16possibly can?Well, tax avoidance is legal, whereas tax evasion is
0:16:16 > 0:16:20illegal. Just because something may be legal doesn't necessarily mean it
0:16:20 > 0:16:25is immoral. To exploit legal loopholes to withhold money that you
0:16:25 > 0:16:29ought to pay as your fair share of tax is not moral force ofbut let's
0:16:29 > 0:16:36talk reality. This is business. To be clear, you are against tax
0:16:36 > 0:16:43avoidance?Where people should pay a fair share of tax, but they don't,
0:16:43 > 0:16:46that is morally wrong, and the government has done a huge amount
0:16:46 > 0:16:51over seven years to address this.I can't agree that the government has
0:16:51 > 0:16:55done a huge amount. There are things that can be done immediately. The
0:16:55 > 0:17:01budget is coming up soon. Why do these tax havens exist? They offer
0:17:01 > 0:17:06no economic value in the 21st century. What could be done in those
0:17:06 > 0:17:09countries, especially the Crown dependencies it, over the course of
0:17:09 > 0:17:14the budget, you could say, we are going to introduce a law that
0:17:14 > 0:17:19exists, punishing the beneficial owners of these customers.At the
0:17:19 > 0:17:25end, in the glasses. No, at the back.Tax avoidance, if you can do
0:17:25 > 0:17:28it, why wouldn't you, at the end of the day? There is Kelly a problem
0:17:28 > 0:17:32with the entire tax system and the fact that people wouldn't be
0:17:32 > 0:17:36squirrelling away all of their money if they didn't feel they had to. I
0:17:36 > 0:17:41think what we should really be looking at is flat rate tax system
0:17:41 > 0:17:46that is completely, new locals in it at all, pay your fair share,
0:17:46 > 0:17:50everybody pays the same percentage. -- no loopholes.I am a young farmer
0:17:50 > 0:17:56and I think for the last number of years we have been through a rough
0:17:56 > 0:18:01stage. Frankly, we don't get much help Szabo -- much help so, if I can
0:18:01 > 0:18:07avoid paying my fair share of tax, why shouldn't I? I could pay an
0:18:07 > 0:18:12accountant to do this for me.It's a depressing reality that what I hear
0:18:12 > 0:18:17from many people in the audience is an acceptance of the logic and
0:18:17 > 0:18:20ideology of the super wealthy, people like Rupert Murdoch, the
0:18:20 > 0:18:26offshore non-dog people who control the media. They want you to believe
0:18:26 > 0:18:28that we should all be rugged individuals. The fact is that we
0:18:28 > 0:18:34require taxation because, as a society, we collectively look after
0:18:34 > 0:18:43each other.But you have to have some sort of income to tax. Who do
0:18:43 > 0:18:47you think create income? These guys create the wealth and money is fluid
0:18:47 > 0:18:51and it moves so, if you want to tax the hell out of these people, they
0:18:51 > 0:18:59will take their money and go elsewhere.But go where?Wherever!
0:18:59 > 0:19:03You had to close these down international, and you can do this.
0:19:03 > 0:19:08By the way, these people do pay tax. They still pay VAT and, what is it,
0:19:08 > 0:19:14health insurance, etc.The difference is, Charlie, if you look
0:19:14 > 0:19:17at some of the examples which we have talked about on Nolan Live or,
0:19:17 > 0:19:24indeed, panorama has looked at, you've got the ordinary working man
0:19:24 > 0:19:30and money comes out of their salary and they have no choice. The tax and
0:19:30 > 0:19:33national insurance is taken out. Meanwhile, they watched some of
0:19:33 > 0:19:36these other people and they are moving money to Mauritius and then
0:19:36 > 0:19:42lending it back, and there is no finite state as to when they have to
0:19:42 > 0:19:51pay for it but does that sound right to you?I did it. It can be done.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56Hold on, I'll tell you why it was a moral choice. I was offered a job by
0:19:56 > 0:20:01a friend of mine many years ago. I wanted to take the job until I
0:20:01 > 0:20:07looked at the salary and said, sorry, I'm not moving to London...
0:20:07 > 0:20:14Basically, by having a non-Dom, I was allowed to come over and then
0:20:14 > 0:20:17that sort of money for that radio station and make the sort of wealth
0:20:17 > 0:20:23that would pay for itself.It's not going to pay for the ambulance or
0:20:23 > 0:20:27the hospital. Or if you need the police...
0:20:27 > 0:20:31ALL TALK AT ONCE These people in the audience are
0:20:31 > 0:20:43paying it, not you.I still paid VAT, I still paid...Everybody pays
0:20:43 > 0:20:51VAT.And I still do as well. I added something to the economy that would
0:20:51 > 0:20:56not have been added otherwise. I am a small part, I admit it, but that
0:20:56 > 0:20:59is why you will see government is reaching out to companies and making
0:20:59 > 0:21:03deals and say, you have to pay tax. It brings employment and wealth.
0:21:03 > 0:21:11People create wealth.Charlie is peddling a tired, old argument that
0:21:11 > 0:21:17greed is good, and it is a pathetic argument. Do you trust people like
0:21:17 > 0:21:21this? Sir Philip Green, who resides in Monaco, just ordered himself a
0:21:21 > 0:21:25£100 million yacht and lives a life of opulence and wallows in his
0:21:25 > 0:21:31riches. He left British Home Stores pension fund empty, with a £500
0:21:31 > 0:21:37million...We are not talking about Sir Philip Green tonight.We are
0:21:37 > 0:21:41talking about people in this country who decide that they are going to
0:21:41 > 0:21:48try to move their money to Mauritius or wherever it is. And not pay the
0:21:48 > 0:21:55standard rate of tax. The lowest rate possible.Give working tax
0:21:55 > 0:21:58credits to the tune of £400 million to the BHS staff because they were
0:21:58 > 0:22:04not paid decent wages Dunnbut we're not talking Philip Green tonight!
0:22:04 > 0:22:10You are obsessed with that man!If they had taken the risk to create
0:22:10 > 0:22:17the jobs that they are then paying tax on, why should they be rewarded?
0:22:17 > 0:22:23If you look at one of the cases we are featuring on this show, Sam and
0:22:23 > 0:22:26Julienne McCrea, you could very much say that, that there are two people
0:22:26 > 0:22:32who have created employment... I was round talking to the PSNI in a
0:22:32 > 0:22:36background briefing and they were saying, look, there is employment
0:22:36 > 0:22:40being created in this country, this is a prosperous, successful
0:22:40 > 0:22:49business. So are you saying, for the owners of the company, you don't
0:22:49 > 0:22:53actually care if Sam McCrea sells a £4 million property for a pound and
0:22:53 > 0:23:01the money ends up in Mauritius? You don't care?If it's legal.These
0:23:01 > 0:23:05companies are important, big multinationals are employment, they
0:23:05 > 0:23:10provide employment and so on. They are being asked to pay their fair
0:23:10 > 0:23:14share, not an exorbitant amount. But so many of them are using loopholes
0:23:14 > 0:23:20to avoid that. Ultimately, two things happen. If there isn't enough
0:23:20 > 0:23:27revenue, either we cut services or ordinary people pay more.32% of all
0:23:27 > 0:23:32tax is paid by the top 1%. Is that fair? It sounds a bit more than a
0:23:32 > 0:23:37fair share.Considering the top 1% owned more than 50% of the whole
0:23:37 > 0:23:40planet. TALKING OVER EACH OTHER
0:23:40 > 0:23:48This is so bogus.If you could read the sources of the material...I
0:23:48 > 0:23:53know, I know... TALKING OVER EACH OTHER
0:23:53 > 0:24:02It is a bogus guilt trip to try and divide the population. If it makes
0:24:02 > 0:24:05these people your friend and he realised that tax rates and tax
0:24:05 > 0:24:09revenue are different things, and you lower tax rates, you get more
0:24:09 > 0:24:11revenue. It's been proven time and time again.
0:24:11 > 0:24:20TALKING OVER EACH OTHER Theresa May is going to carry on
0:24:20 > 0:24:24with the policies we have intimated for seven years. What has happened
0:24:24 > 0:24:31is, over the last seven years, the government has secured an additional
0:24:31 > 0:24:37£160 billion, which would have been lost in tax evasion, tax avoidance
0:24:37 > 0:24:40and noncompliance. £160 billion is more than the annual budget of the
0:24:40 > 0:24:44NHS. That's been achieved. Another thing that has been achieved, is
0:24:44 > 0:24:51that it requires international agreements to deal with this, and
0:24:51 > 0:24:55the UK has been a key driver. 100 countries are signed up to
0:24:55 > 0:25:02exchanging...Hasn't the Tory party cut the HMRC budget? Reed last year,
0:25:02 > 0:25:05HMRC brought in an extra £500 billion from the wealthiest in
0:25:05 > 0:25:14society. The guy with his hand up.I can hear a lot from the American guy
0:25:14 > 0:25:18and this other guy. All the multinationals, they can go ahead
0:25:18 > 0:25:25and go to any country, put their money in, what tax do they pay? It's
0:25:25 > 0:25:31nice to say, oh, they are corporate countries and they employ lots of
0:25:31 > 0:25:36people, but they still make megamoney. But the working man, what
0:25:36 > 0:25:45does he do? He pays 20% of tax.Are you angry?Very angry. I am retired
0:25:45 > 0:25:51and I pay 20% tax on my pension. Why? And I pay for my health. And I
0:25:51 > 0:25:58pay for this and that.Maybe you should send it all out to Mauritius.
0:25:58 > 0:26:06Maybe I should, if I had the chance. But apparently princes and
0:26:06 > 0:26:08businesses and international people and sportsmen and everybody else can
0:26:08 > 0:26:20do this. And they get away with it. Go ahead.The fact of the matter is
0:26:20 > 0:26:24that it's increasing inequality. You are talking about the statistics of
0:26:24 > 0:26:27the top 1% paying more, but that's because the bottom percent is
0:26:27 > 0:26:32getting more and more worse off. If we were more equal, we would all be
0:26:32 > 0:26:39paying more equal tax, so this is progressive.So you do something
0:26:39 > 0:26:44simple, a flat tax. Everybody pays the same thing, you get rid of the
0:26:44 > 0:26:48loopholes.That is also a regressive tax plan.But you're talking about
0:26:48 > 0:26:55the quality of you separate, 13, 15, whatever it is, maybe have half a
0:26:55 > 0:26:58dozen reductions and that's it. Remember, people at that end of the
0:26:58 > 0:27:03scale don't have to get paid, all right? At that end of the scale...
0:27:03 > 0:27:08Customer grabbed what of the scale? Rupert Murdoch or whatever, you
0:27:08 > 0:27:16don't have to get paid.What's your point?If you want control and you
0:27:16 > 0:27:23get them to pay, make it simple, 15% for everybody, no loopholes.I'd
0:27:23 > 0:27:27like to ask, is this money not meant to be our money, not your money? Are
0:27:27 > 0:27:30we not meant to be here as a collective rather than speaking like
0:27:30 > 0:27:39Milton Friedman back in the old days?How did you feel about tax
0:27:39 > 0:27:42avoidance? How do you feel about some of the tax avoidance stories we
0:27:42 > 0:27:49have brought into the public domain this week?It's ridiculous. I pay my
0:27:49 > 0:27:53fair share and I am happy to do that because I believe in the ideology
0:27:53 > 0:27:58that it's being invested back into my country and my area. That's what
0:27:58 > 0:28:03it's therefore, not for you and your own personal development.The last
0:28:03 > 0:28:07two audience contributions have hit the nail on the head. The people who
0:28:07 > 0:28:11create the wealth are not the people sitting on the decks of super
0:28:11 > 0:28:14yachts. It's you, the ordinary citizens that get out and go to
0:28:14 > 0:28:18work. You talk about the contribution of these lofty
0:28:18 > 0:28:25super-rich, whose wealth trickles down for the minimum wage is now £7
0:28:25 > 0:28:3150 in the UK. If it had risen at the same rate since 1999 as the top 100
0:28:31 > 0:28:36CEOs of UK FTSE companies, the minimum wage would now be closer to
0:28:36 > 0:28:39£20 per hour. You are being robbed and the government you are rejecting
0:28:39 > 0:28:51is making it legal robbery. You want comeback don't you? How about the
0:28:51 > 0:28:55favourite non-Dom, Lord Ashcroft? I'm not here to comment on
0:28:55 > 0:28:58individual cases.HMRC has requested... You just said you'd
0:28:58 > 0:29:03like the Government to get tough. I'm not going to prejudge an
0:29:03 > 0:29:08investigation which is underway by HMRC.How tough has Theresa May been
0:29:08 > 0:29:13on Lord Ashcroft?I just told you, I'm not going to prejudge an
0:29:13 > 0:29:17investigation that is ongoing.You said earlier this is the question of
0:29:17 > 0:29:21morality not legality.There is also a decision between the political and
0:29:21 > 0:29:26the judicial. I'm not going to prejudge an investigation into
0:29:26 > 0:29:29possible wrongdoing.Would you distance yourself from Lord
0:29:29 > 0:29:33Ashcroft?I have no knowledge of the individual case.Do you watch
0:29:33 > 0:29:39panorama?I have no interest. The proper authorities will investigate
0:29:39 > 0:29:46that properly. I want to make what is a substantial point, labour talks
0:29:46 > 0:29:52about this issue. They talk and talk and talk. In the last Parliament,
0:29:52 > 0:30:03they've forced three measures to be withdrawn...What you talking about?
0:30:03 > 0:30:07Ashcroft was top Ashcroft. When the ordinary punter, when the ordinary
0:30:07 > 0:30:12man or woman sees Ashcroft sending his money, banning his money off way
0:30:12 > 0:30:18he does and you try and wriggle away from talking about it because you
0:30:18 > 0:30:22don't want to talk about the legality of it, come on, front. Did
0:30:22 > 0:30:26it look right to you?It's not feathers on one was confronted on
0:30:26 > 0:30:30the street.Do you think it is moral?They should not be tried and
0:30:30 > 0:30:37convicted by a television audience. I want to the point...I thought you
0:30:37 > 0:30:41just said that Labour need to answer questions.If I can get to that
0:30:41 > 0:30:46point.You can get to that point if you tell us about Mr Ashcroft. I
0:30:46 > 0:30:51started a point I intended to finish it. Were talking about Lord
0:30:51 > 0:30:58Ashcroft. Dear, dear, dear.One of which would have prevented companies
0:30:58 > 0:31:03from shifting losses overseas. To avoid corporation tax. These are
0:31:03 > 0:31:07practical methods which can be used to address this issue. 75 measures
0:31:07 > 0:31:11announced are implemented over the past seven years by the Conservative
0:31:11 > 0:31:15Government. Labour talks a good game, but when it comes to practical
0:31:15 > 0:31:19measures, they are not delivering. The former law German non-Donald
0:31:19 > 0:31:23Ashcroft hidden toilet when he was question. What would Labour do? We
0:31:23 > 0:31:27would do this, summary said earlier that we have no trust in
0:31:27 > 0:31:32politicians. Your right not to have trust. What we should do is expose
0:31:32 > 0:31:36MPs who are offshore. Let's expose the tax affairs of all are members
0:31:36 > 0:31:46of Parliament be opened and transparent. HMRC was cut in staff
0:31:46 > 0:31:50by 11,000, is that correct? Yes. OK, are you serious about dealing with
0:31:50 > 0:31:56tax evasion?Only not talking about revenue going into public services?
0:31:56 > 0:32:01Have given various statistics about money being recouped.You've cut
0:32:01 > 0:32:0620,000 police, you've cut fire stations. You're inflicting cuts on
0:32:06 > 0:32:09ordinary citizens while your former party chairman doesn't pay tax in
0:32:09 > 0:32:13this country. That's disgusting and your backed up by a tabloid press
0:32:13 > 0:32:23which doesn't pay tax in this country.It's important to remember
0:32:23 > 0:32:29that the Tory Government of 12 set it around here, do the people of the
0:32:29 > 0:32:33north really get that money back? That money is then by the British
0:32:33 > 0:32:41Government, who are ripping money out of this place left, right and
0:32:41 > 0:32:49centre.Who ripped this money out of this place?The British Government.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52Ackley, it is a lot more than what they get per head any other part of
0:32:52 > 0:32:58the United Kingdom.I'm not talking about... The British Government
0:32:58 > 0:33:02becoming serious about taking money away, taking money out of tax
0:33:02 > 0:33:06avoidance. The money is not going to be coming back here. I want to take
0:33:06 > 0:33:10one more comment, then we will move on.I want to say to people like
0:33:10 > 0:33:15Charlie, the public sector doctor, nurse, they can't afford tax, but
0:33:15 > 0:33:18they are the people who are going to save your life at the end of the
0:33:18 > 0:33:22day, all my life, so why do you not feel like you need to pay the fare
0:33:22 > 0:33:25share because these are the same public sector workers who have not
0:33:25 > 0:33:29seen a pay rise in numerous years gone by. They deserve a lot more
0:33:29 > 0:33:34than 1%, and their share of wages. Let me let Charlie respond to you. I
0:33:34 > 0:33:38didn't hear what they said.The direct question was if you are
0:33:38 > 0:33:43working at a hospital, they have to pay their tax and they deserve a pay
0:33:43 > 0:33:47rise.Sure they do. I would love to give them a pay rise, if there is
0:33:47 > 0:33:53money.Nada becomes out of your taxes.You can't say they deserve a
0:33:53 > 0:33:59pay rise as they have been dominated by Tory austerity cuts. You can't
0:33:59 > 0:34:03expect them to save your life. People like you aren't going to pay
0:34:03 > 0:34:09your taxes.As you feel about the stories that we've demonstrated of
0:34:09 > 0:34:15tax avoidance in Northern Ireland?I care about doctors and nurses, I
0:34:15 > 0:34:19know public service workers, if I'm going to go out and pay my taxes to
0:34:19 > 0:34:24pay their wages, I want them to be on the same team as me, I don't want
0:34:24 > 0:34:26people funding grievance breading greed by saying I don't feel like I
0:34:26 > 0:34:32need to pay my fair share.I'll give you... Know, we're done. Thank the
0:34:32 > 0:34:41panel. Thank you.
0:34:41 > 0:34:46Now, it's been a difficult day for many across Northern Ireland
0:34:46 > 0:34:50today, in particular for the people of Enniskillen because,
0:34:50 > 0:34:53as you know, today is the 30th anniversary of one of the worst
0:34:53 > 0:35:03atrocities of the Troubles.
0:35:12 > 0:35:2130 years ago... 11 people died that day and over 60 people were injured.
0:35:21 > 0:35:24A 12th victim, Ronnie Hill, lay in a coma for 13 years. Before passing
0:35:24 > 0:35:34away. Stephen Ross was just 15 at the time of the bomb, every bone in
0:35:34 > 0:35:39his face was shattered, he lost most of his teeth and his legs were
0:35:39 > 0:35:44broken by falling masonry. Stephen was with his father who was killed
0:35:44 > 0:35:54in the bomb, his dad was decapitated by the blast. Helen Bonner was
0:35:54 > 0:35:59heavily pregnant back in 1987 and was 100 yards from where the bomb
0:35:59 > 0:36:04went off that day. With her two-year-old son in a pram. Her
0:36:04 > 0:36:09daughter, Catherine, was born two weeks later and is about to turn 30.
0:36:09 > 0:36:17She is with us in the audience tonight. It's horrendous, obviously,
0:36:17 > 0:36:28when you think back to what has happened to people. We see you in
0:36:28 > 0:36:31that film, you are a victim 's campaign. When you look back at what
0:36:31 > 0:36:35happened that day, what are your memories?Member memories are very
0:36:35 > 0:36:42vivid. Unavailable what I saw that day. I was standing in the Senate
0:36:42 > 0:36:50off with my dad, I remember police officer. He knew him because my dad
0:36:50 > 0:36:54served and took early retirement due to ill-health, he was only 49 years
0:36:54 > 0:37:02of age. My -- I said who was that, and I never got the answer. I was
0:37:02 > 0:37:06knocked unconscious and when I came round I tried to move and I was
0:37:06 > 0:37:10buried to the knees, couldn't move. My first thought was where is my
0:37:10 > 0:37:16dad? I looked down to my right and I saw a body, didn't recognise him as
0:37:16 > 0:37:19my father, buried, covered in rubble, dust, daybreak, I only
0:37:19 > 0:37:23recognise him because of his shiny signature shoes and I knew right
0:37:23 > 0:37:30away that was him. He was decapitated, his head was gone from
0:37:30 > 0:37:34just above his left eyebrow. I knew he was dead.Thankfully, he didn't
0:37:34 > 0:37:41suffer. People sometimes talk about drawing a line under the past. When
0:37:41 > 0:37:44you see... This is a brutal question, but you are living with
0:37:44 > 0:37:51this. And some people are not. When you see your father and some of his
0:37:51 > 0:38:00head is blown away, how do you ever recover from that?Has been a tough
0:38:00 > 0:38:0430 years, Stephen, if I'm brutally honest. It's been very, very tough.
0:38:04 > 0:38:09I've got a fantastic wife, Sharon, who has cared for me during it. I
0:38:09 > 0:38:11was very lucky that they with my injuries, but my condition worsened
0:38:11 > 0:38:15over the months and years afterwards, I'll was diagnosed with
0:38:15 > 0:38:24Syria toccata rightist -- with arthritis and it is very difficult
0:38:24 > 0:38:27to see your father lying beside you as an 18-year-old, brutally
0:38:27 > 0:38:32murdered, along with 11 other innocent citizens. Life has been
0:38:32 > 0:38:36very difficult. I had to give up work due to ill-health and I suffer
0:38:36 > 0:38:41on a daily basis. It is a constant reminder. As I wake up in the
0:38:41 > 0:38:45morning in severe pain until I get medication, I get a twinge, it is a
0:38:45 > 0:38:50constant reminder back until that fateful day.Do you forgive who
0:38:50 > 0:38:58didn't?Forgiveness is a difficult word. Nobody has said that they feel
0:38:58 > 0:39:02remorse for the killing of tee one. Sorry to interrupt, but this is your
0:39:02 > 0:39:10dad we are looking at now. It is very -- killing of Enniskillen.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14Forgiveness for me is honestly, truthfully, hand on my heart, I
0:39:14 > 0:39:18cannot forgive them, unless they came and pleaded for forgiveness
0:39:18 > 0:39:26from me. Personally, I couldn't give them -- forgive them. Some people in
0:39:26 > 0:39:32the audience might find that hard to accept, but that's how I feel. It's
0:39:32 > 0:39:36very very raw. Today was very emotional, even though it is 30
0:39:36 > 0:39:42years on. Once your question, I don't think I could ever forgive.I
0:39:42 > 0:39:47know you do forget, Stephen Ross, you were 15 years old when you are
0:39:47 > 0:39:51injured in the bomb. You are buried under the rubble, Stephen.Not just
0:39:51 > 0:39:56buried, Stephen, it's a miracle I am alive today because it took five or
0:39:56 > 0:40:00six people to lift a slab of concrete, and heavyweight piece of
0:40:00 > 0:40:05concrete on me, I was curled up in a ball underneath it.To go through
0:40:05 > 0:40:11that experience... Do you remember? Very vividly.I hope this doesn't
0:40:11 > 0:40:16sound like a stupid question. What is the sensation in your human body
0:40:16 > 0:40:19when you are buried in the rubble? The sensation is more when you are
0:40:19 > 0:40:27pulled out? All you can taste is blood, concrete, screaming, your
0:40:27 > 0:40:34heart is in your mouth, your teeth are gone. You are thinking what has
0:40:34 > 0:40:42happened to me? What condition and iron? It is shocking. It when you
0:40:42 > 0:40:45are more conscious that you reflect on how much pain you have to go
0:40:45 > 0:40:51through. Those days and the initial period in the first week in
0:40:51 > 0:40:57intensive care were so painful to sit through those times and reflect
0:40:57 > 0:41:01on Jim Dixon who was pleading with nursing staff to let him die and
0:41:01 > 0:41:08Ronnie Hill, lapsing into a coma that lasted 13 years to let --
0:41:08 > 0:41:13before he died. It's painful, but what gives me hope is that as a
0:41:13 > 0:41:18Christian, my sense of justice isn't based on right and wrong on my
0:41:18 > 0:41:25opinion, and forgiveness is an issue that I can release. As is said, it
0:41:25 > 0:41:32is up to the people to ask for it. The media took that to mean I figure
0:41:32 > 0:41:36it.Do you forgive the people?I have no bitterness against the
0:41:36 > 0:41:41people who did this to me. None. What benefit is that to me? Is a
0:41:41 > 0:41:47Christian, I have been forgiven a lot. Whether is eager -- they seek
0:41:47 > 0:41:54that forgiveness is another question. I have done that, I
0:41:54 > 0:41:58genuinely, looking at the audience, saying that from the heart, that if
0:41:58 > 0:42:00you can genuinely forget someone, you should say it, if you can't,
0:42:00 > 0:42:04then don't.What does a dude you long-term, psychologically? You
0:42:04 > 0:42:14could let something like this being bereaved and injured over sectarian
0:42:14 > 0:42:18violence, let the anger consume you. You've got to let the human emotion.
0:42:18 > 0:42:22Anger is a visitor. It shouldn't be a resident in your life and you
0:42:22 > 0:42:27could let something like this become total asphyxiation, becoming your
0:42:27 > 0:42:37sole question I too feel angry or seek retribution. -- is to feel. Is
0:42:37 > 0:42:40that going to undo the suffering he went through?You are at the Senate
0:42:40 > 0:42:46off that day. With your two-year-old son.Yes, I left the house that
0:42:46 > 0:42:50morning, it was funny because Stephen, my two-year-old son, he
0:42:50 > 0:42:53would usually be awake very early that morning and he had been that
0:42:53 > 0:42:56morning but because I was so tired because I was so pregnant, I pushed
0:42:56 > 0:43:01him back into bed and then I had to wake him after ten o'clock. I got
0:43:01 > 0:43:06out, walked down to town and I was heading towards it and I saw a woman
0:43:06 > 0:43:10standing with a red coat and I thought, that is my mother, I headed
0:43:10 > 0:43:14towards her. Just as that happened, the bomb went off and all I could
0:43:14 > 0:43:20think of was, is my mother dead? How am I going to have my second child
0:43:20 > 0:43:25without my mother about? I just couldn't believe what I had seen.
0:43:30 > 0:43:35What do you think your brain captured when the bomb went off?I
0:43:35 > 0:43:39just couldn't believe what happened, that a bomb could have been planted
0:43:39 > 0:43:43at the centile and nobody saw it. I didn't realise it was in the Reading
0:43:43 > 0:43:50rooms. I was just totally stunned. -- planted at the Cenotaph. In a
0:43:50 > 0:43:53state of despair. At the time, I didn't know that my father was
0:43:53 > 0:43:57there. I thought he was back down behind, going to parade, but he was
0:43:57 > 0:44:03actually at the Cenotaph that day. What do you think of the people who
0:44:03 > 0:44:08could do that, who could plant the bomb there, walk away and not really
0:44:08 > 0:44:11care about how many people they killed? Indeed, the more people they
0:44:11 > 0:44:17killed, maybe the better. That's maybe held their minds would think
0:44:17 > 0:44:23that's just it. I feel they are very warped people, and I can't
0:44:23 > 0:44:27understand where they get their mentality from, how you can do that
0:44:27 > 0:44:30to another human being. If you killed a dog on the road, you'd feel
0:44:30 > 0:44:35so sick about it. How you can do that to human beings is
0:44:35 > 0:44:41unbelievable, for absolutely no reason. I just think it's really
0:44:41 > 0:44:45terrible, what happened.You said you were pregnant at the time with
0:44:45 > 0:44:49your daughter, Catherine. Catherine is there, isn't she?Yes, in the
0:44:49 > 0:44:57front row.Hi, Stephen.I was reading about your mum and your
0:44:57 > 0:45:02story and, if your mum hadn't have stopped to talk to someone, you
0:45:02 > 0:45:11might not be here today.That's right. Looking back, I've been a
0:45:11 > 0:45:20mother myself. I really wire lies -- realise how lucky I am.I just saw a
0:45:20 > 0:45:27cloud of smoke. I stopped to talk to somebody, that's correct.And that's
0:45:27 > 0:45:32why you didn't go closer to the bomb.One reason was because Stephen
0:45:32 > 0:45:36slept in, which he wouldn't normally do, and secondly I stopped to talk
0:45:36 > 0:45:41to somebody, and that obviously was the reason why I wasn't so close,
0:45:41 > 0:45:45because I intended to head towards the woman with the red coat.
0:45:45 > 0:45:50Thankfully, it wasn't my mother. I discovered her afterwards. She was
0:45:50 > 0:45:56sitting in church, very calm, which is unlike her. I was shocked.
0:45:56 > 0:46:00Thankfully, it wasn't her. I met Peter Wilson the time he lost his
0:46:00 > 0:46:05sister and he asked me if I had seen his father and his sister, Marie
0:46:05 > 0:46:11Wilson. Everybody was running about in despair.It was... There was an
0:46:11 > 0:46:19issue today, Stephen Port, which no doubt will be talked about. Do you
0:46:19 > 0:46:24want to give us a sense of what happened today when the memorial was
0:46:24 > 0:46:33unveiled? And then, that's the memorial being unveiled... All 12
0:46:33 > 0:46:40names of those who died on that memorial.In the name of the Father,
0:46:40 > 0:46:46the son and the holy spirit, I dedicate this memorial in
0:46:46 > 0:46:51everlasting and loving memory...And yet, Stephen, these pictures of the
0:46:51 > 0:47:00memorial being removed. How do you feel about that?Very hurt, let down
0:47:00 > 0:47:05would be an understatement. This has been in the planning since the 25th
0:47:05 > 0:47:12anniversary, and the Ely Centre, the victims group in Enniskillen, did a
0:47:12 > 0:47:15feasibility study a couple of years ago with the families and different
0:47:15 > 0:47:18people, and the time was right to have a permanent, lasting memorial
0:47:18 > 0:47:24to the victims. He will say, why do you need a memorial? The names are
0:47:24 > 0:47:27on the Cenotaph. I was always against the names on the Cenotaph.
0:47:27 > 0:47:33These people work for civilians who were ordered -- who were murdered.
0:47:33 > 0:47:42With Enniskillen families names on the war memorial, in a war, to get
0:47:42 > 0:47:47back to your point...Just to explain, the reason why that
0:47:47 > 0:47:57memorial was removed, it was an... -- the lad was owned by the church.
0:47:57 > 0:48:03And they are saying there was no permission for the memorial to be
0:48:03 > 0:48:07there. They would say that they recently received the request and
0:48:07 > 0:48:10that they will give its consideration in the longer term.
0:48:10 > 0:48:16Did that hurt you, seeing it removed?Yes, it hurt all of the
0:48:16 > 0:48:21families. It's taken the whole focus away, why we were there today for
0:48:21 > 0:48:25the 30th anniversary. We applied for planning permission in January. Six
0:48:25 > 0:48:29months of consultation. All the key holders, stakeholders were
0:48:29 > 0:48:36complained. Planning was passed in July, so we thought, green light, go
0:48:36 > 0:48:42ahead. The money that came from this memorial came from all over the
0:48:42 > 0:48:46world, charitable donations. It funded the memorial. And then all of
0:48:46 > 0:48:51a sudden, about six weeks ago, we hit a brick wall.We will all be
0:48:51 > 0:48:54staying across that story but, in the meantime, given our guests a
0:48:54 > 0:48:57round of applause.
0:49:06 > 0:49:11Obviously, anything is that we do in the programme tonight, it pales into
0:49:11 > 0:49:16insignificance, and I totally get that, but we are going to move on.
0:49:16 > 0:49:18If you're a football fan, and even if you're not,
0:49:18 > 0:49:22it can't have escaped you that both Northern Ireland and the Republic
0:49:22 > 0:49:25have huge games this week that could see them both qualify
0:49:25 > 0:49:27for the first time for the World Cup in Russia.
0:49:27 > 0:49:33So what we want to do is see if there are fans
0:49:33 > 0:49:39who will support both teams.
0:49:39 > 0:49:44We've even designed our own special Nolan T-shirt.
0:49:44 > 0:49:59Look at that. Would you be prepared to swing both ways? I don't know. We
0:49:59 > 0:50:02have a sense that we got quite a fuse swingers in the audience
0:50:02 > 0:50:07tonight. Look at this, you are wearing the shirt already. What's
0:50:07 > 0:50:13your name?Shame.Tell me why you are happy to swing both ways.I
0:50:13 > 0:50:18don't know where you come from, who you are, what you are and where you
0:50:18 > 0:50:22are playing, as long as you get along and support everybody.Is it
0:50:22 > 0:50:27not disloyal to a team? If you are not a real football fan, does a real
0:50:27 > 0:50:34football fan not support only one team?It works out great for me
0:50:34 > 0:50:38because, if the Republic is playing, will go to the pub and watch them.
0:50:38 > 0:50:41If its Northern Ireland claim, we go to the pub and watch them.
0:50:41 > 0:50:50APPLAUSE Brilliant! Whereof you from?Best
0:50:50 > 0:51:01brook.And you are a swinger?I am. For how long? With this guy?Oh,
0:51:01 > 0:51:07yes.And why are you not loyal to one team.It's better to like both
0:51:07 > 0:51:15teams. What what do you mean, bigger? Just support both teams.
0:51:15 > 0:51:25Don't care about religion or out. Just like football, mate. We decided
0:51:25 > 0:51:28to go out onto the streets.
0:51:28 > 0:51:32Backing our campaign already is ex-player and legendary
0:51:32 > 0:51:37pundit Eamon Dunphy.
0:51:37 > 0:51:43In our football analyst for RTE. I followed, like everybody, the
0:51:43 > 0:51:45Northern Ireland journey in this World Cup qualifiers. They've done
0:51:45 > 0:51:51brilliantly. We hope, everybody here, that they beat Switzerland and
0:51:51 > 0:51:56that they come to Russia with us. They do brilliantly in the Euros and
0:51:56 > 0:52:00they have a great coach, Michael O'Neill. For those reasons, I will
0:52:00 > 0:52:07be swinging both ways.Ex-Northern Ireland defender Jerry Taggart is
0:52:07 > 0:52:14live in Sheffield. Where are you, Jerry? Good evening.Good evening,
0:52:14 > 0:52:18Stephen.So you are a swinger? Definitely, don't mind a bit of
0:52:18 > 0:52:27swinging.Tell us why.Well, there are a few reasons, and one reason
0:52:27 > 0:52:33is, I just listened to one of your guests giving this reason, but one
0:52:33 > 0:52:38of the main reasons at this moment in time is that obviously I played
0:52:38 > 0:52:42under the current manager of the Republic of Ireland, Martin O'Neill,
0:52:42 > 0:52:44a proud northern Irishman, captain of Northern Ireland. One of his
0:52:44 > 0:52:49coaches is a good friend of mine who I played with at Leicester.Cut to
0:52:49 > 0:52:54the chase, isn't it disloyal to cuddle swing one way and then the
0:52:54 > 0:53:01other? Is a real not -- is a real football fan and not behind their
0:53:01 > 0:53:05team whether they win, or draw? Obviously, I want to see Northern
0:53:05 > 0:53:11Ireland qualified for the World Cup, first and foremost, but wouldn't it
0:53:11 > 0:53:15be absolutely amazing if both countries get through Chris Rockdo
0:53:15 > 0:53:20you think both teams will get through?Who knows? What could be
0:53:20 > 0:53:28worse than supporting England?I think we can all support you there!
0:53:28 > 0:53:35We wanted to know how you all felt this, so we sent Vinny out to speak
0:53:35 > 0:53:39to fans of both persuasions and ask them if they were interested in
0:53:39 > 0:53:44swinging both ways.Northern Ireland.Republic.A serious
0:53:44 > 0:53:52question. Would you consider swinging both ways?I'd like to see
0:53:52 > 0:53:58both teams playing.Both teams.Both teams.Northern Ireland all the way.
0:53:58 > 0:54:05Would you not wear this T-shirt? Northern Ireland.Northern Ireland?
0:54:05 > 0:54:10Would you swing both ways for Stephen Nolan?Not at all.What
0:54:10 > 0:54:16about for you?Yeah, all right. Republic.Northern Ireland.Do you
0:54:16 > 0:54:24swing both ways?I would definitely swing both ways.I'm eating a
0:54:24 > 0:54:29doughnut.I don't like football. What better would you wear this
0:54:29 > 0:54:34T-shirt? Would you support the republic and swing both ways?No,
0:54:34 > 0:54:39I'm British.Would you swing ways for Stephen Nolan?Not a chance! I
0:54:39 > 0:54:47don't like him at all.Northern Ireland, Republic?None, no.You are
0:54:47 > 0:54:51turning down this T-shirt. Would you consider swinging both ways and
0:54:51 > 0:54:59supporting both?I don't know, sorry.Just say yes.Guess.I swing
0:54:59 > 0:55:10both ways.I swing both ways.I swing both ways.I swing both ways.
0:55:10 > 0:55:15What would you consider swinging both ways and supporting the
0:55:15 > 0:55:19Republic as well?Why not?Who, Stephen Nolan?No, I don't fancy
0:55:19 > 0:55:24him.Would you wear this T-shirt for me?
0:55:24 > 0:55:37Give them all a round of applause. Wonderful. You can announce it on
0:55:37 > 0:55:44TV. Are you a swinger?Yeah.Will get you a T-shirt. Look, if you want
0:55:44 > 0:55:53to follow our campaign, we're trying to get a hashtag going, Nolan SPW.
0:55:53 > 0:55:58If we can get that going, it would be great on Twitter. We will follow
0:55:58 > 0:56:02it on the radio show at 9am tomorrow.
0:56:02 > 0:56:03Right, that's it for another week.
0:56:03 > 0:56:06Playing us out tonight, the Lady Boys of Bangkok!
0:56:06 > 0:56:09They have a show in Custom House Square for the next ten nights.
0:56:09 > 0:56:10Here they are, singing Shout Out To My Ex.
0:56:12 > 0:56:14# This is a shout out to my ex
0:56:14 > 0:56:16# Heard he in love with some other chick
0:56:17 > 0:56:19# Yeah, yeah, that hurt me, I'll admit
0:56:20 > 0:56:23# Forget that boy, I'm over it
0:56:24 > 0:56:27# I hope she gettin' better sex
0:56:28 > 0:56:31# Hope she ain't fakin' it like I did, babe
0:56:32 > 0:56:35# Took four long years to call it quits
0:56:36 > 0:56:38# Forget that boy, I'm over it
0:56:41 > 0:56:42# Guess I should say thank you
0:56:42 > 0:56:44# For the hate yous and the tattoos
0:56:44 > 0:56:47# Oh baby, I'm cool by the way
0:56:48 > 0:56:51# Ain't sure I loved you anyway
0:56:51 > 0:56:57# Go 'head, babe, I'mma live my life, my life, yeah
0:56:57 > 0:57:00# Shout out to my ex, you're really quite the man
0:57:00 > 0:57:04# You made my heart break and that made me who I am
0:57:04 > 0:57:08# Here's to my ex, hey, look at me now, well, I
0:57:08 > 0:57:12# I'm all the way up, I swear you'll never bring me down
0:57:12 > 0:57:16# Shout out to my ex, you're really quite the man
0:57:16 > 0:57:20# You made my heart break and that made me who I am
0:57:20 > 0:57:23# Here's to my ex, hey, look at me now, well, I
0:57:23 > 0:57:26# I'm all the way up, I swear you'll never,
0:57:26 > 0:57:28# You'll never bring me down
0:57:30 > 0:57:32# Oh, I deleted all your pics
0:57:33 > 0:57:35# Then blocked your number from my phone
0:57:37 > 0:57:40# Yeah, yeah, you took all you could get
0:57:41 > 0:57:43# But you ain't getting this love no more
0:57:45 > 0:57:47# Cos now I'm living so legit
0:57:48 > 0:57:51# Even though you broke my heart in two, baby
0:57:52 > 0:57:55# But I snapped right back, I'm so brand new, baby
0:57:56 > 0:58:00# Boy, read my lips, I'm over you, over you
0:58:01 > 0:58:03# Guess I should say thank you
0:58:03 > 0:58:05# For the hate yous and the tattoos
0:58:05 > 0:58:08# Oh baby, I'm cool by the way
0:58:08 > 0:58:11# Ain't sure I loved you anyway
0:58:11 > 0:58:17# Go 'head, babe, I'mma live my life, my life, yeah
0:58:17 > 0:58:20# Shout out to my ex, you're really quite the man
0:58:20 > 0:58:24# You made my heart break and that made me who I am
0:58:24 > 0:58:28# Here's to my ex, hey, look at me now, well, I
0:58:28 > 0:58:32# I'm all the way up, I swear you'll never bring me down
0:58:32 > 0:58:36# Shout out to my ex, you're really quite the man
0:58:36 > 0:58:39# You made my heart break and that made me who I am
0:58:39 > 0:58:43# Here's to my ex, hey, look at me now, well, I
0:58:43 > 0:58:46# I'm all the way up, I swear you'll never
0:58:46 > 0:58:48# You'll never bring me down
0:58:53 > 0:58:55CHEERING