:00:00. > :00:00.A really big Nolan Live show tonight.
:00:07. > :00:09.Are opponents of gay marriage ready to throw in the towel?
:00:10. > :00:12.UUP leader Mike Nesbitt says they're on the wrong side of history.
:00:13. > :00:19.Also tonight - watch as I'm cut out of THIS car wreck.
:00:20. > :01:15.Hello there, hello. Let's get on with the show, shall we? Hello,
:01:16. > :01:18.everybody. Thank you for joining us on BBC One.
:01:19. > :01:21.We've music from The Shires on the show tonight as well, but let's
:01:22. > :01:24.kick off tonight with gay marriage - the debate that just won't go away.
:01:25. > :01:31.The Assembly will vote on it next week - that'll be
:01:32. > :01:36.But Ulster Unionist Party leader Mike Nesbitt has fired
:01:37. > :01:39.a dramatic warning to gay marriage opponents - including himself.
:01:40. > :01:45.Here's what he told the UUP conference at the weekend.
:01:46. > :01:51.Some of us support same-sex marriage, some of us don't. I'm not
:01:52. > :01:54.going to labour the point today but to those of us who cannot bring
:01:55. > :02:00.ourselves to support the change in the law, be aware, you are on the
:02:01. > :02:07.wrong side of history. There's a generation and they simply do not
:02:08. > :02:14.understand why there is a problem. We asked Mike Nesbitt to commend, he
:02:15. > :02:18.could not find the time to do so. He thinks he's on the wrong side of
:02:19. > :02:25.history, but he's not voting for gay marriage. So, he's going to stay on
:02:26. > :02:29.the wrong side of history. That is what the political party is saying,
:02:30. > :02:37.he's going to stay on the wrong side of history. He is talking out of the
:02:38. > :02:39.side of his mouth. He needs to be on the right side of history and he
:02:40. > :02:46.needs to be quickly. The position he has taken, if he doesn't vote yes,
:02:47. > :02:51.he's doing a grave disservice to the LGB the community. I am calling on
:02:52. > :02:56.them to vote yes and be on the right side of history and to show
:02:57. > :03:01.leadership. He is the leader of a political party. He needs to lead
:03:02. > :03:05.from the front. He has every right to vote as his conscience that
:03:06. > :03:10.dates, as his personal values that date, without you judging him. I am
:03:11. > :03:15.not judging anybody but no party political leader has the right to
:03:16. > :03:21.use conscience to discriminate against an entire community. People
:03:22. > :03:30.can have their beliefs. This is not about religious beliefs. This is
:03:31. > :03:36.about equality for the LGB community. Why bring this back to
:03:37. > :03:40.the assembly so many times? You're going to keep bringing this back
:03:41. > :03:46.until you get the boat you want. Democracy is about equality. We have
:03:47. > :03:50.equal marriage in the 26 counties, in England, Scotland and Wales, this
:03:51. > :03:56.is the only part of these islands that does not have equality. The
:03:57. > :04:00.point of devolution is that Northern Ireland makes up its own mind, and
:04:01. > :04:05.it has done so, so get over it and accept it. The whole point of the
:04:06. > :04:11.Good Friday agreement is to have our assembly, the North-South Misty blue
:04:12. > :04:25.Council, the British-I wish situation is and equality and human
:04:26. > :04:28.rights. -- Irish. A couple of things picking up on the Good Friday
:04:29. > :04:31.agreement. The people of Northern Ireland didn't ink that when they
:04:32. > :04:36.supported the Good Friday agreement that they would have army councilman
:04:37. > :04:40.in government as they found out not so long ago. There are more
:04:41. > :04:44.important things to talk about in Northern Ireland, than this
:04:45. > :04:49.obsession that we have, for the fifth time as you say, and I have
:04:50. > :04:52.had enough of it. The debate has taken place four previous times. The
:04:53. > :05:00.vote has been given and we are heading for a fifth vote on Monday.
:05:01. > :05:04.I want to call on Monday, if the speaker allows it, to go straight
:05:05. > :05:09.into the vote, let's not have a debate. What is the point in
:05:10. > :05:15.repeating everything that has been repeated and said? To see if they
:05:16. > :05:21.have changed their minds? If they have, they can vote accordingly. I
:05:22. > :05:26.am fed up hearing from them, the same thing, time after time. And not
:05:27. > :05:32.accepting the verdict and will of the assembly. When I go to the
:05:33. > :05:36.assembly, I am not a delegate but a representative of the constituency I
:05:37. > :05:43.was sent to represent. Including gay people? Including everybody in my
:05:44. > :05:46.constituency. But the vast majority of people who take the time to talk
:05:47. > :05:52.to me about this issue say to me that we do not want to have same-sex
:05:53. > :05:58.marriage. That is what the majority have said. You are not asking them
:05:59. > :06:02.to have same-sex marriage. You're not walking up to a straight person
:06:03. > :06:09.and saying, do you fancy a little bit of gay marriage tonight? The
:06:10. > :06:13.other aspect of the obsession is that I am fed up with being
:06:14. > :06:19.bullied, every time this issue arises. I have been bullied and
:06:20. > :06:25.criticised by supporters of this in Stormont itself. I have an e-mail
:06:26. > :06:30.coming in, by the dozen, criticising me. People look don't know anything
:06:31. > :06:36.about me, telling me the way to vote. That is bullying, all of a
:06:37. > :06:46.sudden? Hang on a second. How is that bullying? That is lobbying. The
:06:47. > :06:49.bullying, that would race in Stormont, it is bullying. You were
:06:50. > :06:55.sent an e-mail, and that is bullying? It was followed up by
:06:56. > :06:59.e-mails, and the bullying that took place was face-to-face and vicious.
:07:00. > :07:09.I don't accept that from anybody. People do not bully me. I am a big
:07:10. > :07:15.fellow. I can look after myself, OK? That is fine, but this was bullying.
:07:16. > :07:21.Of no consequence. I don't know these people, they don't know me,
:07:22. > :07:30.but they trespassed into my work to choose that they would first down my
:07:31. > :07:37.throat, their views. It is not on. The fact that you feel that you are
:07:38. > :07:41.bullied when LGB people have been bullied by the likes of you telling
:07:42. > :07:46.us that we cannot be married. They have never been bullied by me and
:07:47. > :07:50.they will not be bullied by me. We are told that we cannot contribute
:07:51. > :07:55.to society. You are talking about one subject which is gay marriage.
:07:56. > :08:02.We, the transgender community are not even included in this. I think
:08:03. > :08:06.everybody should be allowed to be married. Well that is where you want
:08:07. > :08:13.to take us to. APPLAUSE
:08:14. > :08:20.Why do you have to call it marriage? Why do you, why cant you
:08:21. > :08:24.have a union with whoever you choose to have a union with? Why do you
:08:25. > :08:31.want to redefine the definition of marriage? There's an assumption that
:08:32. > :08:37.marriage is a religious thing, between a man and a woman, but
:08:38. > :08:42.marriage has been about before Christianity. The ancient Egyptians
:08:43. > :08:51.got married. People before that. It is good to see the likes of Catriona
:08:52. > :08:59.Ruane, who is always for the LGB people and for equality for us all.
:09:00. > :09:03.By the way, the DUP, just so you know at home, they have tabled a
:09:04. > :09:08.petition of concern. What that means, it is a technical term.
:09:09. > :09:14.Essentially, what it means is that, if the assembly were to vote for gay
:09:15. > :09:19.marriage, the DUP would use that petition of concern to block it
:09:20. > :09:25.anyway. All right? Here is what the DUP have also done tonight. They
:09:26. > :09:31.have bottled out of coming into this studio and talking to you at home
:09:32. > :09:36.about an issue. It is not orange and green. It is not about marching down
:09:37. > :09:41.the road, it is not about flags, I will tell you what it is about, DUP,
:09:42. > :09:47.it is about the biggest political party in Unionism in Northern
:09:48. > :09:52.Ireland, about a 13, 14, 15-year-old child, whether they are gay or
:09:53. > :09:56.straight, listening to their politicians, if they do decide that
:09:57. > :10:01.you are their party, and finding out what they stand for, and the fact
:10:02. > :10:04.that you have bottled out of coming into this studio tonight does not
:10:05. > :10:07.mean that I am not going to continue to ask you and your leader and every
:10:08. > :10:12.politician in your party the questions that actually matter. Do
:10:13. > :10:17.you think homosexuality is normal? You think that gay people should be
:10:18. > :10:21.able to get married? Clearly not. If you passionately believe that, then,
:10:22. > :10:26.in front of these people and pay them the respect that they deserve,
:10:27. > :10:30.I talking to them because you knock on their doors, when you want votes.
:10:31. > :10:39.And that is the bottom line. APPLAUSE
:10:40. > :10:45.Catriona Ruane, intolerance works both ways, does it not? Of course.
:10:46. > :10:48.You have got to be tolerant of someone's view that they want to
:10:49. > :10:51.protect their definition of marriage. Someone does not deserve
:10:52. > :10:56.to be bullied and pilloried because they have got a religious view, and
:10:57. > :11:00.they are sick and tired of this issue, and constantly in Northern
:11:01. > :11:06.Ireland, when the democratic will is against gay marriage. I do believe
:11:07. > :11:14.the democratic will is against gay marriage. The last time we lost by
:11:15. > :11:18.two votes. Let's see now what the five SDLP who did not turn up to
:11:19. > :11:23.vote the last time. I am hoping that they will be here. Let's see what
:11:24. > :11:29.happens with Mike Nesbitt's party and see, maybe people in their party
:11:30. > :11:35.will change. What we need is to ensure that all of our citizens have
:11:36. > :11:40.equality. In relation to religious belief, every motion that we had
:11:41. > :11:46.made sure that there was respect for churches and churches do not have to
:11:47. > :11:54.carry out... Hang on. Hang on, let me... Let me make the point. This
:11:55. > :12:00.motion on Monday that your name is attached to, it calls for the Dzeko
:12:01. > :12:05.div two table legislation -- for the Dzeko div to table legislation. You
:12:06. > :12:11.don't know what is entailed in the legislation, what it is about. It is
:12:12. > :12:16.just a one-liner. It tables legislation for same-sex marriage.
:12:17. > :12:19.That is what it says, that is what the motion says. What is this
:12:20. > :12:24.legislation that you want to be brought forward? Five minutes ago,
:12:25. > :12:28.you wanted to go straight to the boat. Now, you want to have a debate
:12:29. > :12:33.about it. Let's have a debate. APPLAUSE
:12:34. > :12:39.You want to know what legislation be want? Let's have a debate. We have
:12:40. > :12:42.had an hour and a half of a debate every time and you have never
:12:43. > :12:46.accepted the right of the assembly to vote in the manner in which it
:12:47. > :12:52.has. You are obsessed with this and you are not going to let it go until
:12:53. > :12:59.you break everybody's heart over it. I'm asking you a question. What is
:13:00. > :13:05.the legislation behind this motion? People are entitled to know what
:13:06. > :13:11.legislation is. Sinn Fein have brought this motion on five
:13:12. > :13:15.occasions. And let's hope that we have sense in the assembly on
:13:16. > :13:21.Monday. Hold on a minute, David. I listened to you. The legislation
:13:22. > :13:26.will be for equal marriage for all of our citizens, and in every single
:13:27. > :13:36.debate we have had, with respect for religious belief. Nobody is saying
:13:37. > :13:41.that the churches have two practice marriage within their institutions,
:13:42. > :13:45.but the state must ensure that the legislate on the basis of equality
:13:46. > :13:58.for all of their citizens. David, David... As legislators, we made to
:13:59. > :14:02.know what the law is going to be. The same legislation as exists in
:14:03. > :14:06.the rest of the UK. We are in the UK, let's have the same legislation
:14:07. > :14:10.and access to rights, right across the UK. This legal quandary well you
:14:11. > :14:15.can be married in one part of the UK and not in another, you could ever
:14:16. > :14:18.same-sex couple were one member of them is from Donegal and the other
:14:19. > :14:25.in Derry, the one in Donegal is married and the other end Derry is
:14:26. > :14:32.in a civil partnership. People do not want to do this... You want
:14:33. > :14:37.Northern Ireland just to conform. We are not allowed to stand up for the
:14:38. > :14:41.things that we believe in. The not believe in evolution bastion mark
:14:42. > :14:46.how many times do you need to be told, no?
:14:47. > :14:55.How many times do you need to be told no? It was brought forward five
:14:56. > :14:59.times before it passed in New York. There is a single direction of
:15:00. > :15:03.travel and it requires people going on a journey and convincing people,
:15:04. > :15:07.it will not happen overnight but the only way to ensure it is done
:15:08. > :15:13.respectfully is to have open debate about it. If you do not win in -- on
:15:14. > :15:17.Monday when will you bring it back? As soon as it can be brought
:15:18. > :15:21.forward. We have two court case is about to start, one in November and
:15:22. > :15:27.one in December challenging the legal position of being able to be
:15:28. > :15:31.married in one part of the UK. Other not other important things that
:15:32. > :15:43.could be tabled in the Assembly? First of all... How about more money
:15:44. > :15:48.for waiting lists? We had lots of debates about health, but this is a
:15:49. > :15:53.very important issue. I want to go on a sidetrack about health. I have
:15:54. > :15:58.had to be in the Royal Victoria Hospital recently and the fantastic
:15:59. > :16:02.nurses and doctors in that hospital and every other hospital in Northern
:16:03. > :16:10.Ireland and I am going off on a tangent, but you might have talked
:16:11. > :16:13.about health, the health system asked for ?45 million in June to
:16:14. > :16:16.help waiting lists in Northern Ireland and they warned that waiting
:16:17. > :16:21.lists would deteriorate and that means that people that vote for you
:16:22. > :16:26.suffer and working-class -- working-class people suffer. I have
:16:27. > :16:30.seen protests when Gerry Adams got arrested on the streets, with the
:16:31. > :16:35.DUP, out protest in if people cannot walk down a road, fair enough, they
:16:36. > :16:40.are allowed to do that, I do not know if there have been protests
:16:41. > :16:44.about waiting lists and not penny -- not 1p of that money has been
:16:45. > :16:50.delivered by either you or the DUP or anyone else in this country. Is
:16:51. > :16:55.that not an absolute indictment on everything you are doing in
:16:56. > :17:01.Stormont, not 1p of the 45 million pounds. I want to see money going
:17:02. > :17:09.into health and education. Deliberate! Protest about that! We
:17:10. > :17:14.have placards about that and we have protests about that. We want to stop
:17:15. > :17:19.Tory cuts, that is what is decimated the Executive. We want to stop tax
:17:20. > :17:24.credits being taken of some of our most probable people who are trying
:17:25. > :17:30.to work, trying everything they can... That is all very fine
:17:31. > :17:36.rhetoric, but people want action. That is not rhetoric. I asked why
:17:37. > :17:41.over 120,000 people in chronic pain, lying on their backs, why are
:17:42. > :17:49.they on a waiting list for over three months last May. It has grown
:17:50. > :17:55.to 170,000 today. I am going to come back to gay marriage. I tell you why
:17:56. > :18:00.it is a fair discussion. I want to drive this home to people. You're
:18:01. > :18:10.pitting waiting lists are against the rights of the LGB T community. I
:18:11. > :18:15.have gone off on a tangent for a couple of minutes... I think we
:18:16. > :18:19.should remind everyone at home that while the time is being talked about
:18:20. > :18:23.about gay marriage and you're bringing back every six months,
:18:24. > :18:31.every political party in this country is not delivered the money
:18:32. > :18:35.the health service needs, not 1p. I do not accept that. Really? We have
:18:36. > :18:40.the chair of the Health Committee and she is doing tremendous work in
:18:41. > :18:45.fighting for health but what we need is funding for health, but we also
:18:46. > :18:50.need right for our LGBT community and it is not a waste of time
:18:51. > :18:53.discussing those rights. Let me come back to this, Jimmy Brace and you
:18:54. > :18:59.said I oppose the redefinition of marriage not only because I dislike
:19:00. > :19:09.gay people as individuals but because I oppose that lifestyle
:19:10. > :19:16.choice. What lifestyle choice. I will touch on that. I am absolutely
:19:17. > :19:20.opposed to same-sex marriage. I am a democrat and I do believe in
:19:21. > :19:26.democracy. Whenever the same-sex motions are brought forward, which I
:19:27. > :19:30.do believe Sinn Fein is abusing, when they are brought forward, I
:19:31. > :19:35.have to say that the DUP foot put aboard a petition after Skerne is
:19:36. > :19:39.disgraceful and they say that is unfair against the LGBT community.
:19:40. > :19:44.If there is a democratic grow -- vote I will argue against it.
:19:45. > :19:50.However, I have to say they should be allowed to fight on and it will
:19:51. > :19:54.battlefield. If I could finish. What I am saying is I do not think they
:19:55. > :20:00.are being treated fairly in terms of people putting petitions of concern
:20:01. > :20:04.said. The democratic process is there for a reason. You have
:20:05. > :20:09.described being gay as a lifestyle choice. Someone gets up in the
:20:10. > :20:13.morning, they decide, I am going to be gay today! Someone gets up on
:20:14. > :20:21.Saturday, they will decide to be straight. That is a good
:20:22. > :20:26.interpretation. You are misinterpreting it. Do you believe
:20:27. > :20:33.being gay is a lifestyle choice? I do. They press a button or what do
:20:34. > :20:40.they do? I believe it is a lifestyle choice and if people want... Based
:20:41. > :20:47.on what evidence? I believe it is a lifestyle choice. It is not accepted
:20:48. > :20:51.by any mental health organisation. I oppose a lifestyle choice of someone
:20:52. > :20:56.in a same-sex marriage. I disagree with that. I am perfectly entitled
:20:57. > :21:01.to do that in a democracy. I have no issue with the people and there is a
:21:02. > :21:07.democratic vote, I would have to agree with that if it is past. It is
:21:08. > :21:13.your religious belief? Yes. I am entitled to hold that in a
:21:14. > :21:18.democracy. These are my views and I am entitled to lobby my elected
:21:19. > :21:24.representatives about it. You're a man of God? Yes. That has driven
:21:25. > :21:31.new? Let us not go off on a tangent. I see where you're going. Go ahead.
:21:32. > :21:42.Let us not personalise the debate. It is not about me. It is a social
:21:43. > :21:49.issue. This is in your letter, Jamie Bryson. It is a social issue, I am
:21:50. > :21:55.not personal. It is not a lifestyle choice. You are just wrong. If that
:21:56. > :22:04.is what you believe. APPLAUSE. I will let you come in in
:22:05. > :22:08.a second. I want you to explain to me what your religion is telling you
:22:09. > :22:15.in terms of why it is your religion driving you to oppose someone like
:22:16. > :22:18.Fergal McFerran. It will not affect your life or personal space. What is
:22:19. > :22:23.it about your religion that are so offended? I believe the Bible
:22:24. > :22:27.defines marriage as between a man and a woman. I believe in society
:22:28. > :22:34.that is the way and marriage should be. There are a couple points I want
:22:35. > :22:38.to make. David talked about being bored of this debate. I am 23 years
:22:39. > :22:41.old, I am bored of living in a society that tells me there is
:22:42. > :22:46.something fundamentally wrong with me. That is wrong and needs to
:22:47. > :22:53.stop. The language used here by some people is really harmful... I did
:22:54. > :22:55.not interrupt you. Please let me finish. Surely some respect at
:22:56. > :23:04.least. APPLAUSE. I want to come back to
:23:05. > :23:06.Jamie Bryson, I was raised in a Catholic environment and I studied
:23:07. > :23:11.theology and I understand the Bible and have read scripture. I know for
:23:12. > :23:14.a fact because I have studied faith and religion that Jesus Christ
:23:15. > :23:18.reached unconditional love, what you are talking about and the way so
:23:19. > :23:22.many people in this country talk about their faith and in this debate
:23:23. > :23:26.is not what Jesus Christ talked about, not unconditional love. It is
:23:27. > :23:30.not up to you to interpret has someone else interprets the Bible. I
:23:31. > :23:35.can add to my parents at the weekend and I wrote about my experience
:23:36. > :23:39.online. The messages I have received have been unexpected and I have been
:23:40. > :23:43.overwhelmed. They have been from Orangemen, priests, Catholic
:23:44. > :23:46.priests, ministers from different churches, complete strangers and
:23:47. > :23:57.they have all overwhelmingly told me that they support me and paint I
:23:58. > :23:59.should have the right to get married in Northern Ireland and to be
:24:00. > :24:01.perfect the honours, I think the representatives in Stormont do not
:24:02. > :24:07.represent the people of Northern Ireland properly on this issue.
:24:08. > :24:12.APPLAUSE. I'm not taking issue with you as a person and I respect you as
:24:13. > :24:15.a person. What I am saying is I believe that marriage should be
:24:16. > :24:18.between one man and one woman and I'm entitled to hold that view and
:24:19. > :24:26.articulate that view in a democracy. I'm not trying to force it on to
:24:27. > :24:29.you, this is a democratic process, here are my views, let us have a
:24:30. > :24:33.democratic vote. Let us do it without a Petition of Concern, let
:24:34. > :24:36.us not put that in, it is an uneven battlefield and the LGBT community
:24:37. > :24:42.are being treated unfurl a banner that. When you talk about the Bible,
:24:43. > :24:49.in this letter, this letter to councillors, ... When was that? You
:24:50. > :24:57.rotate! I did not ask you that, I asked you when it was you wrote it!
:24:58. > :25:03.I am not disputing that. You say that you have a child out of
:25:04. > :25:10.wedlock. Let me make a point. Did you write that? Hold on. You would
:25:11. > :25:16.not put that to anyone else on the panel and you would not
:25:17. > :25:20.personalise... Hold on! You wrote it! Do not personalise this about
:25:21. > :25:25.me, if I started to personalise about you... If I write an open
:25:26. > :25:34.letter to someone, I am asking you did you write this? I accept that.
:25:35. > :25:39.So the obvious question... This is an important debate and you're
:25:40. > :25:46.trying to personalise it. No... If I can finish the question. The
:25:47. > :25:49.question is this, for those religious people who are absolutely
:25:50. > :25:54.entitled to their religion who are entitled to say to others, this is
:25:55. > :25:58.what the Bible says about gay marriage, or those religious people
:25:59. > :26:04.following the Bible in their own lives? Which is why the context of
:26:05. > :26:07.something that you have said in your open letter to councillors, where in
:26:08. > :26:09.your personal life, you have not followed the Bible but you are
:26:10. > :26:15.telling him to follow the Bible to the letter of the law. Hold on, I do
:26:16. > :26:20.not want to get into a the ology lesson, but what I will say is this,
:26:21. > :26:26.there is no one in this, anywhere who does not commit sin, no one is
:26:27. > :26:30.perfect. Yes have I done things that are simple, absolutely. Does that
:26:31. > :26:35.mean that I should not attempt to articulate what I believe? In terms
:26:36. > :26:40.of same-sex marriage? Does that take away from that? Everyone has sinned
:26:41. > :26:44.will stop surely I am in title to hold those views. I am not perfect
:26:45. > :26:49.and I do not claim to be perfect. I am no better than you. I guess the
:26:50. > :26:53.point I'm trying to make is it is not illegal to have a child out of
:26:54. > :26:58.wedlock. It is not illegal but you are using the Bible to say to Freya
:26:59. > :27:03.Jones it should be illegal for him not to get married because you
:27:04. > :27:11.object to that badge -- Fergal McFerran. If I went into your
:27:12. > :27:14.personal life, I would be marched out of the BBC. If I went into your
:27:15. > :27:19.personal life, you would not be pleased. I think that is very bad
:27:20. > :27:24.taste. Why do due write this in an open letter, I am confused. I wrote
:27:25. > :27:28.a letter to the councillors. Stop trying to twist the issue! You're
:27:29. > :27:32.trying to be controversial and make it about me. You're trying to get
:27:33. > :27:39.away from the debate. It is a debate on a social issue. God is the giver
:27:40. > :27:45.of life but he says it is an abomination to sleep, men to men, it
:27:46. > :27:50.is an abomination. What are you saying? That it is wrong. I have
:27:51. > :27:55.nothing against the gay community or the gay people, but what I am saying
:27:56. > :27:58.is to the likes of Catriona Ruane, by tickling their ears and telling
:27:59. > :28:02.them everything is all right and they are going to vote for them,
:28:03. > :28:08.what they are actually doing is leading them down a false pass. They
:28:09. > :28:12.are leading them into a path of destruction. The Bible says there
:28:13. > :28:23.are two ways, heaven or hell and what they are doing by telling these
:28:24. > :28:26.people it is OK, everything is fine, we will go your way, do you not
:28:27. > :28:29.understand what she's doing? She's taking you down wrong path. It is an
:28:30. > :28:31.abomination. You should be leading them on another path. You have the
:28:32. > :28:36.right to your own belief that the language you're using, Ballard
:28:37. > :28:44.Bridge of abomination is so harmful to our community. It is what the
:28:45. > :28:48.Bible says! It is still harmful. Christianity is about promoting
:28:49. > :29:03.positivity and supporting people. That is not
:29:04. > :29:09.What were talking about is how marriages recognised under the law.
:29:10. > :29:13.All people should be recognised as equal under the law. We have a
:29:14. > :29:24.ridiculous situation we have Unionists, like Jamie and David who
:29:25. > :29:30.oppose equal marriage. Are you a Unionists? No. Who oppose that
:29:31. > :29:39.parrot the existing across these islands. How could you call yourself
:29:40. > :29:43.a nationalist and oppose rights which are now enshrined in the Irish
:29:44. > :29:49.constitution voted for the by the vast majority of people in the
:29:50. > :29:55.Republic of Ireland? Let me talk to Susan Leith who is in our Bristol
:29:56. > :30:05.studio tonight. You are an opponent of gay marriage. As the world fallen
:30:06. > :30:08.in. Since it was legalised. No, but certainly there have been certain
:30:09. > :30:14.changes that have happened. Certain people using the change in the law
:30:15. > :30:21.to try to put pressure on Rhodesia 's institutions to change what they
:30:22. > :30:30.believe. -- religious institutions. What has changed? What has been
:30:31. > :30:35.difficult. Only 14,000 people have entered into same-sex marriages over
:30:36. > :30:38.the last year and half of them were already in civil partnerships,
:30:39. > :30:42.compared to the quarter of a million opposite sex marriages taking place.
:30:43. > :30:46.So the world is not going to his ball in, it is a small number of
:30:47. > :31:05.people, but the nature of marriage has changed. Who is on the line?
:31:06. > :31:09.Sean, go ahead, Sean. We the people in Northern Ireland are fed up
:31:10. > :31:16.listening to the politicians squabbling week after week. They are
:31:17. > :31:24.still talking about the IRA and bombs and things. Move on from it.
:31:25. > :31:29.We will let the people decide here. And help you if you are fed up with
:31:30. > :31:33.the IRA Army Council in Howard government. -- you should be ashamed
:31:34. > :31:42.of yourself. -- in Howard government. I am fed up with people
:31:43. > :31:52.like you, talking about the same thing. All right, thank you very
:31:53. > :31:56.much. Go ahead, yes. It is going to be legalised eventually. I just
:31:57. > :32:02.think young people are not represented enough. Once the younger
:32:03. > :32:09.generation starts coming in, they will be set on this issue. I wonder
:32:10. > :32:12.if there is a wider discussion in Northern Ireland that needs to be
:32:13. > :32:17.had, that even the political parties here are against gay marriage. To be
:32:18. > :32:21.fair to them they are labelled by some people as being bigots and
:32:22. > :32:29.being zealots. And actually, that might not the case. There's maybe a
:32:30. > :32:32.need for a wider discussion in Northern Ireland for those political
:32:33. > :32:37.parties to come in and tell us what they think of gay people, keep gay
:32:38. > :32:42.marriage out of it. I asked the other day, do you think that a gay
:32:43. > :32:48.person's sexuality is natural. Take gay marriage out of it. You are an
:32:49. > :32:56.elected representative. You think homosexuality is natural? I do, yes.
:32:57. > :33:01.The debate is essential because we are legislators and we are going to
:33:02. > :33:08.enact, if Catriona Ruane has her way, a law. I need to know more
:33:09. > :33:10.about it. There's a young man of their introducing the subject of
:33:11. > :33:17.young people. You're absolutely right. But there are in mind that I
:33:18. > :33:21.am a father and grandfather. And when I listen to my children and my
:33:22. > :33:28.grandchildren that also, Wilson the work that I do as an MLA, and there
:33:29. > :33:31.are two schools coming next week to talk to, I do their debating
:33:32. > :33:38.societies. Not once have they ever asked me a question, the young
:33:39. > :33:46.people of Northern Ireland, about same-sex marriage. Well, they might
:33:47. > :33:52.once. At the end of the day everyone has to make the Rhone informed
:33:53. > :33:56.choice. I think in this place now people have two except the way that
:33:57. > :34:05.these individuals choose to live their lives. Why not let the people
:34:06. > :34:07.of Northern Ireland the side, have a referendum, and letters the side? --
:34:08. > :34:19.beside. Ukip would support many referendums
:34:20. > :34:24.and this is one I would welcome. Let's hear what the people say. You
:34:25. > :34:29.people tell us that we don't know what we are doing, all sorts of
:34:30. > :34:36.things. I would want to hear what you want to tell me. I attended a
:34:37. > :34:39.gay wedding at the weekend, two of my good friends who have waited
:34:40. > :34:45.years to get married under the eyes of the law, and it was beautiful.
:34:46. > :34:58.Probably the nicest wedding I have attended. Nobody should be able to
:34:59. > :35:02.tell you you can and cannot marry. It has become more of an abuse of
:35:03. > :35:11.power. I agree with that and there is nobody worse for that than Sinn
:35:12. > :35:14.Fein. They don't bring this legislation in every six months,
:35:15. > :35:19.they have a petition of concern every six weeks. The greatest number
:35:20. > :35:24.of petitions of concern are brought in by the DUP. The addition of
:35:25. > :35:32.concern is a mechanism to protect equality. And actually, the DUP are
:35:33. > :35:39.using it to block equality for the LGB community. Why is it
:35:40. > :35:44.protecting equality if they bring it in but not if you bring it in? It is
:35:45. > :35:48.a mechanism to protect and they are using it to discriminate against. We
:35:49. > :35:53.don't want to bore everybody stupid on the programme but thank you very
:35:54. > :36:02.much indeed. Give everyone on the panel around of applause. Just to
:36:03. > :36:07.remind you, a big subject. There's about at the assembly next week. We
:36:08. > :36:14.will see how that goes. And of course we will be across it on the
:36:15. > :36:21.Nolan radio show at half past nine every day. That is kicking off on
:36:22. > :36:29.Twitter. If you want to continue talking to us on Twitter it is
:36:30. > :36:31.@StephenNolan. Now for some music and this duo is
:36:32. > :36:34.the first country music band to Singing their hit single
:36:35. > :36:44.State Lines, it's The Shires. # You always take me by surprise,
:36:45. > :36:52.like when it rains in California # Yeah, you do
:36:53. > :37:02.# You got a crazy sense of humour, dry as the sands in Arizona
:37:03. > :37:10.# You know you do # But I love everything about you
:37:11. > :37:22.# Yeah I love all the little things # Like when you roll your eyes like
:37:23. > :37:26.a cool New Yorker # Driving across the Mason Dixon
:37:27. > :37:36.line # I've gotta smile
:37:37. > :37:39.# Cos you're warm like a night in a southern summer
:37:40. > :37:43.# Sweet like a taste of California wine
:37:44. > :37:49.# I love crossing your state lines, state lines
:37:50. > :38:04.# State lines # You can cry like the Mississippi,
:38:05. > :38:15.when we're just watching a movie # It's kinda cute
:38:16. > :38:22.# You sweep me away like a hurricane, over Louisiana
:38:23. > :38:31.# And I let you, yeah # Cos I love everything about you
:38:32. > :38:43.# Yeah I love all the little things # Like when you roll your eyes like
:38:44. > :38:46.a cool New Yorker # Driving across the Mason Dixon
:38:47. > :38:54.line # I've gotta smile
:38:55. > :38:57.# Cos you're warm like a night in a southern summer
:38:58. > :39:03.# Sweet like a taste of California wine
:39:04. > :39:15.# I love crossing your state lines, state lines
:39:16. > :39:18.# And I'm learning every day, # A little bit more and more with
:39:19. > :39:25.every state # All the little things
:39:26. > :39:30.# Like when you roll your eyes like a cool New Yorker
:39:31. > :39:34.# Driving across the Mason Dixon line
:39:35. > :39:42.# I've gotta smile # Cos you're warm like a night in
:39:43. > :39:45.a southern summer # Sweet like a taste of California
:39:46. > :40:00.wine # I love crossing your state lines,
:40:01. > :40:21.# Your state lines # State lines. #
:40:22. > :40:37.Thank you. Beautiful, wasn't it? That's my favourite from so many
:40:38. > :40:40.series. Thank you very much indeed. Beautiful, beautiful music. To a
:40:41. > :40:42.serious subject now. Already this year 58 people
:40:43. > :40:46.have died on the roads. You would have to go back three
:40:47. > :40:49.and a half years to have a single month without a road death
:40:50. > :41:04.- that was way back April 2012. It is why we as a programme have
:41:05. > :41:10.tried to highlight this. You don't imagine yourself
:41:11. > :41:14.surrounded by paramedics or fire
:41:15. > :41:17.crews cutting you out of a car. What you are
:41:18. > :41:27.about to see is a reconstruction, but it happens for real in
:41:28. > :42:32.Northern Ireland all too often. Just going to undo your bot. -- your
:42:33. > :42:43.button. We are going to stabilise the vehicle. We know that there's a
:42:44. > :43:03.lot happening at the moment. We are just helping you to breathe, OK? The
:43:04. > :43:06.glass will be breaking around you, Stephen. We're cutting on your right
:43:07. > :43:47.hand side. It is scary. you're OK. Try not to move. Try not to move!
:43:48. > :43:53.Nice and still. Can we have Stephen covered over? We are just going to
:43:54. > :43:58.put the blanket over your face for a second.
:43:59. > :44:10.Keep going. Keep going. Keep going, anyone spare go round the other
:44:11. > :44:17.side. Tie it down so it does not come back up. OK. What we are going
:44:18. > :44:31.to do now is applied board behind your back. OK. -- slide a board. It
:44:32. > :44:37.is fine. We will grab hold of your clothing and hold you up. God help
:44:38. > :44:44.you! It will be on one two, three. Move. Keep it going if you can. One
:44:45. > :45:03.more foot. OK, well done. Is there a camera on me? Can you see
:45:04. > :45:08.me, Jim? What you do get a sense of inside the car is the absolute
:45:09. > :45:19.professionalism of the people around you and that was genuinely scary.
:45:20. > :45:24.They did that for real. You start to think what these people do for a
:45:25. > :45:32.living, day in and day out, it isn't edible because there's little in
:45:33. > :45:38.their hands. -- is incredible. Of course I speed. This will make me
:45:39. > :45:44.think differently, absolutely think differently. One male casualty
:45:45. > :45:55.removed by ambulance personnel to hospital.
:45:56. > :45:57.That was terrifying for me to go through
:45:58. > :46:06.It's a different matter when it is real life.
:46:07. > :46:14.It happens every month. Let us look at the audience. How many of you in
:46:15. > :46:19.your time driving have glanced at a text or mobile phone while driving.
:46:20. > :46:32.I am one of them. How many of us speed? Yes. And that is the reality
:46:33. > :46:37.of some of it. Richard Alcorn, I am grateful for you coming into night.
:46:38. > :46:43.You have been there for real. Yes I have. What happened? It was a two
:46:44. > :46:49.car collision on my way home from work in 2006. Ten years ago. I can
:46:50. > :46:53.see the car. It is when you see what happens to these pieces of metal.
:46:54. > :46:59.You were inside that. You do not remember much about it. I do not
:47:00. > :47:06.remember much of the accident. What injuries did you sustain? Ankles,
:47:07. > :47:13.knees, a broken pelvis, put one leg through the back of my pelvis, broke
:47:14. > :47:19.my tail bone, my neck, a broken jaw, to our trees damaged, one going
:47:20. > :47:26.to the brain, I lost my arm through an operation after the accident.
:47:27. > :47:32.This is you in hospital. My mother took that. I had the collar on, I
:47:33. > :47:37.could not look down to see this car. I wanted to. A lot of bits and
:47:38. > :47:40.pieces were done. Sometimes when I do stuff for television, you're
:47:41. > :47:45.doing it for television, I have not been able to stop thinking about
:47:46. > :47:51.this and sometimes we speak to young drivers, but we are talking to us
:47:52. > :47:57.all when you look at this. Here is young man without an arm. Dad,
:47:58. > :48:05.you're beside him. You work for the Fire Service. You actually attended
:48:06. > :48:08.your son's crash. I got the call on the way home from a dental
:48:09. > :48:14.appointment and I was there before the local fire in Donegal. It was
:48:15. > :48:22.scary, a scary moment when it is your own child. You do not know how
:48:23. > :48:26.it will go. It is terrifying. I realise right from the start they
:48:27. > :48:33.were really bad injuries. What is it you see in a situation like that?
:48:34. > :48:36.Well, it is strange to say, he was making really strange noises that I
:48:37. > :48:44.have not heard since or heard before that. I knew you it was terrible and
:48:45. > :48:48.it was going to be bad. It was just one of those things, I thought he
:48:49. > :48:56.would not make it, not going to make it. But, the improvement he has made
:48:57. > :49:02.sense is unbelievable. But, it is terrifying. Every time I hear of an
:49:03. > :49:06.accident I think about the parents and what they are going through.
:49:07. > :49:11.Richard, what do you say to someone who takes a risk a car? It is not
:49:12. > :49:16.yourself you're risking, it is what is coming towards you. It is who is
:49:17. > :49:24.sitting beside you or who is at home. I cannot lie, I did speed from
:49:25. > :49:30.time to time, I probably still do, but I would not have thought before
:49:31. > :49:35.it, my mother and father at home, I lost a cousin in 2005 and it did not
:49:36. > :49:41.click home because it was not as close to home as myself. Inspectors
:49:42. > :49:46.Stevie Hazlett from the police, what is it like when you have to knock a
:49:47. > :49:50.door? That is one of the worst tasks I could be asked to do. You have had
:49:51. > :49:55.a window tonight of what it is like at a scene, the sounds, the smells,
:49:56. > :50:00.worse than that, the silences. If I had a choice and it is not much of a
:50:01. > :50:10.choice and I have stood many times that seems, I would prefer to stand
:50:11. > :50:13.at a scene than not a word. Because, there is no set reaction as to how
:50:14. > :50:16.people will react to you. You are about to deliver a message that has
:50:17. > :50:20.the most devastating affect on that family. That starts with the family,
:50:21. > :50:24.the circle of friends, work colleagues, it affects everyone.
:50:25. > :50:30.Mark Smyth, sorry I am rushing, from the Fire Service, thank you for
:50:31. > :50:34.allowing me to see what I am making myself vulnerable in an everyday.
:50:35. > :50:39.But for the grace of God, I could be doing that for real. We all think we
:50:40. > :50:44.are looking at a phone, sending a text, it is dangerous when you see
:50:45. > :50:48.the after-effect. For a moment's in attention you can change a life for
:50:49. > :50:51.ever and we are asking people, just to really look at what they are
:50:52. > :50:56.doing when they are driving. A couple of pieces of advice we would
:50:57. > :51:00.give, drive at the right speed, appropriate to the road conditions
:51:01. > :51:03.and never take your eyes off the road, pay attention fully to the
:51:04. > :51:09.road at all times and that includes especially these days, not to look
:51:10. > :51:12.at the mobile phone. Take that text, you look at that mobile phone you
:51:13. > :51:19.can change your life forever. Thank you for coming in and Jackie and
:51:20. > :51:23.Sean, thank you for coming in and all the Mrs, I also got an
:51:24. > :51:27.opportunity to see what you do and you do an incredible job, so on
:51:28. > :51:38.behalf of the community, thank you so much for what you do.
:51:39. > :51:41.APPLAUSE. . We have got to move on, but think.
:51:42. > :51:42.My celebrity guest tonight is a snooker star
:51:43. > :51:51.He played alongside the big names like Steve Davis, our own Alex
:51:52. > :51:53.Higgins. But recently he has faced some
:51:54. > :51:56.tough battles away from the baize. Here to talk about his highs
:51:57. > :52:16.and lows on and off the table, I watched you as a kid and all of
:52:17. > :52:20.that and I wanted you to come tonight because I was shocked at
:52:21. > :52:26.your story of what you have had to fight through. More recently. It has
:52:27. > :52:32.been awful. It has been a bad time. I got involved in gambling too
:52:33. > :52:39.heavily and I got sent bank run fibre six weeks ago. I also had a
:52:40. > :52:43.stroke recently and I have got double vision -- bankrupt. I am this
:52:44. > :52:50.size for real! I was concerned in case you weren't. I do wear a class
:52:51. > :52:53.with a prism but I can see... Do you think the stroke was as a result of
:52:54. > :52:58.the stress of the bankruptcy which was fuelled by the gambling? The
:52:59. > :53:02.problem was I had borrowed from friends and of course, when it came
:53:03. > :53:09.to the crunch, I could not pay it back. That was when I think I got
:53:10. > :53:15.stressed out. What we gambling on? Horses mainly. Obviously my era when
:53:16. > :53:19.I was playing snooker, I used to gamble on myself occasionally but
:53:20. > :53:26.you're not allowed to any more. You should clip of me playing Steve
:53:27. > :53:34.Davis and I had backed myself to win 100 grand stop in the UK match were
:53:35. > :53:41.you missed the blue ball! You had gambled ?100,000 on that! Not on
:53:42. > :53:48.that shot. How did you miss that? Impossible to miss. It was Gary
:53:49. > :53:52.Lineker's fault. Gary Lineker is one of my closest friends. We were
:53:53. > :53:55.playing the match and it was 13-8 going into the ninth session and as
:53:56. > :53:59.we were going back to the hotel, he said make sure you win the first
:54:00. > :54:02.frame and it is impossible for you to lose. We did not talk about what
:54:03. > :54:09.would happen if I lost the first frame. I was on the blue, I relax
:54:10. > :54:14.and thought I had won. I went back to the chair thinking I could lose.
:54:15. > :54:18.In my era there was no positive mental attitude, I have always been
:54:19. > :54:24.weak. The gambling was screwing you up. How much did you lose in the
:54:25. > :54:31.gambling? Just recently ?1 million. I had not got it, but I lost it.
:54:32. > :54:35.What kind of money were you betting? The problem with gambling is you
:54:36. > :54:42.think tomorrow that you will win. What was your biggest bet? About 40
:54:43. > :54:47.or 50,000. It was on multiples. In the 1980s I was earning up to 20
:54:48. > :54:50.grand a week. It is a bit like the footballers, so many footballers are
:54:51. > :54:59.in trouble, two or three Premiership footballers that I know who have
:55:00. > :55:02.remortgaged their houses and they are getting ?60,000 a week. We were
:55:03. > :55:04.talking in the dressing room, I think credit cards and credit have
:55:05. > :55:09.been the ruin of this country, without question. You were using
:55:10. > :55:13.money lenders and loan sharks. I got in trouble with that. When you
:55:14. > :55:18.cannot pay some people back... I got threatened and they threatened my
:55:19. > :55:24.wife. That is when I realised... Threatened to do what? To come
:55:25. > :55:31.around and harm her or hire me. They threatened to cut her fingers off,
:55:32. > :55:36.is that true? Yes, that is true. This is a problem. When you have a
:55:37. > :55:41.disease, drugs or alcohol or gambling, it is so hard, because you
:55:42. > :55:46.live a lie. I go through my life, everyone thinks I am happy-go-lucky,
:55:47. > :55:51.I am laughing and joking, when I sit at home, I am like that. Depression
:55:52. > :55:56.is the most horrible thing. Obviously everyone has their own
:55:57. > :55:59.problems. The reason I am moving through this, unfortunately we have
:56:00. > :56:06.to have a half minutes. A stroke is scary. I did not know I had had a
:56:07. > :56:12.stroke, I was speaking at a dinner in London and I woke up the next
:56:13. > :56:17.morning and my right eye was towards my nose. Recently, I can now look at
:56:18. > :56:21.my phone and read it and my eyes are getting better, but it has been ten
:56:22. > :56:25.weeks as I have been able to see properly. The stress is horrible.
:56:26. > :56:30.Does the stroke scare you psychologically when you're told you
:56:31. > :56:35.have it? I had a stroke five or six years ago and there is a mark on my
:56:36. > :56:39.scan but there was no mark on the scan this time. It is just a little
:56:40. > :56:46.TIA that has gone through the back of my head. The surgeon said they
:56:47. > :56:52.had never seen anything like it will stop how are you going to fight
:56:53. > :56:56.back? Take time. I borrowed money from friends and people who could
:56:57. > :57:00.afford it, it was not like I was borrowing money from someone who
:57:01. > :57:04.could not pay the mortgage. Obviously I borrowed serious money
:57:05. > :57:09.off a couple of people, but I am a man of honour and hopefully, a
:57:10. > :57:13.gambling debt as a gambling debt of the people I have borrowed money
:57:14. > :57:18.from hopefully I will pay back. Do you get support from the
:57:19. > :57:22.superfamily? They have been great. I text John Higgins today, he watched
:57:23. > :57:28.the match, he beat Shaun Murphy, he never missed a ball. I said that was
:57:29. > :57:31.fantastic. He asked how I was doing and said everyone was thinking about
:57:32. > :57:39.me. I have made a mistake, held my hands up, I am seen double. There
:57:40. > :57:43.are 14 of us there. What you call your man second from the left? Terry
:57:44. > :57:49.Griffiths. He used to do my head on, he was so slow! He was slower than
:57:50. > :57:59.that. Do you remember him? Is he still alive? Absolutely. You bought
:58:00. > :58:07.our record Snooker Loopy. Cliff Thorburn, he was slower than Terry!
:58:08. > :58:11.Who is that? . Neal Foulds. He got to number three in the world. Never
:58:12. > :58:15.heard of him. He will be pleased to hear that. I will tell him. I wish I
:58:16. > :58:22.had more time with you. I love the show. It is different, isn't it? I
:58:23. > :58:28.will tune in every night. I want to get you onto the radio show. Ladies
:58:29. > :58:38.and gentlemen, give Willie Thorne a round of applause.
:58:39. > :58:43.APPLAUSE. . We need to extend this show to two and a half hours and
:58:44. > :58:47.extend my salary by two and a half times! That is it for us this week.
:58:48. > :58:49.There's a Nolan Live with a difference next week.
:58:50. > :58:51.We're teaming up with RTE's Primetime programme
:58:52. > :58:54.for a big discussion on issues facing both parts of the island.
:58:55. > :58:56.And we'll be revealing the findings of a specially
:58:57. > :59:04.That's it for another packed Nolan Live but let's keep
:59:05. > :59:07.the conversation going on Twitter tonight and I'm back on Radio Ulster