:00:00. > :00:07.For the first time ever on this show, we'll be broadcasting
:00:08. > :00:10.live, right across Ireland - teaming up with RTE's Prime Time
:00:11. > :00:13.programme to debate the big talking points and hear views from packed
:00:14. > :01:01.Hello there. Welcome to the show. An extended programme.
:01:02. > :01:03.Later we'll be hearing what our audiences in Dublin and Belfast
:01:04. > :01:06.have to say about some of the political and social issues
:01:07. > :01:10.Are we poles apart or is there much common ground beyond the border?
:01:11. > :01:14.To help us gauge if the politicians are in step with the
:01:15. > :01:18.popular feelings on these issues, the BBC and RTE have commissioned
:01:19. > :01:21.a cross-border survey asking about the issues that matter to you.
:01:22. > :01:27.Some of those results are a real eye-opener.
:01:28. > :01:34.We will use them to inform the discussion tonight. Should be
:01:35. > :01:43.interesting. Lead is head over to Miriam O'Callaghan at RTE. -- let
:01:44. > :01:46.us. We are now live on
:01:47. > :01:49.BBC Northern Ireland and on RTE, with Miriam O'Callaghan
:01:50. > :02:03.in the Prime Time studio in Dublin. It is a pleasure to be linking up in
:02:04. > :02:06.this unique collaboration. We will hear from contributors north and
:02:07. > :02:11.south of the border as well as revealing results of our specially
:02:12. > :02:14.commissioned cross-border survey. Let us get stuck in.
:02:15. > :02:17.Let's have a look at who we've got with us here in Belfast tonight.
:02:18. > :02:19.The DUP's Arlene Foster, Northern Ireland's Finance Minister.
:02:20. > :02:23.Claire Hanna from the SDLP and the Alliance Party's David Ford,
:02:24. > :02:33.Sinn Fein will be joining the panel in Dublin.
:02:34. > :02:36.And, of course, we've got a studio full of folk who have plenty to
:02:37. > :02:48.We will start off with you. Conor? I was hoping to find out what
:02:49. > :02:54.percentage of people north and south would be in favour or against a
:02:55. > :03:01.united Ireland? It would be interesting. You are about to see
:03:02. > :03:08.that and a lot more. Alex Kane, what do you think will be surprising?
:03:09. > :03:12.What are you hoping to establish? For the past ten years there has
:03:13. > :03:16.been censored Northern Ireland politicians in the Assembly are
:03:17. > :03:19.distant from the electorate so it will be interesting to see,
:03:20. > :03:24.particularly on the social and ethical issues, if they are out of
:03:25. > :03:29.step and then it comes to same-sex marriage and so one, you will find a
:03:30. > :03:33.comfortable majority in Northern Ireland are far more liberal than
:03:34. > :03:42.the politicians believe. We are about to find out. Miriam? I will go
:03:43. > :03:49.to the audience. Ian Morgan, what are you expecting? What is your
:03:50. > :03:54.view? I feel very passionately about the reunification of the country, I
:03:55. > :04:00.was brought up in the border area of North Monaghan and had a profound
:04:01. > :04:04.affect on my youth and the community and we had effectively a Berlin Wall
:04:05. > :04:08.from 1972 until the Good Friday Agreement with neighbours torn apart
:04:09. > :04:15.and we have the British Army coming into the community and the trenches,
:04:16. > :04:18.basically, that split the half and May one recollections were playing
:04:19. > :04:23.in these trenches, they were like the moon but the old record I
:04:24. > :04:28.realised this was petition in my own community. Thank you for that.
:04:29. > :04:36.Hannah O'Sullivan, you order number of Fine Gael? My personal view is
:04:37. > :04:43.that I feel that Northern Ireland should be an independent state and
:04:44. > :04:48.not part of any other territorial. I feel that if Northern Ireland
:04:49. > :04:52.continues to become part of the UK, there will be issues and if it
:04:53. > :05:01.becomes part of a united Ireland, there will be issues. I lived in
:05:02. > :05:04.London from the mid-19 70s until the 1990s and I sort of felt what it was
:05:05. > :05:11.like to be an Irish person with an Irish accent, leading through the
:05:12. > :05:20.Troubles in Northern Ireland... OK, thank you. I will introduce you to
:05:21. > :05:26.the panel, Jimmy Dylan Hunt, Brandon Smith, from Fianna Fail. Pearson
:05:27. > :05:31.Bertie from Sinn Fein. Pat Rabbitte from the Labour Party. Jimmy
:05:32. > :05:42.Ferriter, professor of Irish history at UCD. And Susan McKay, author and
:05:43. > :05:45.journalist. As we said, we had a survey to get an idea of how people
:05:46. > :05:50.feel, it was conducted by behaviour and attitudes for RTE and BBC
:05:51. > :05:55.Northern Ireland over done two weeks last month. You would remember this
:05:56. > :06:01.was during the weeks of instability at Stormont. Just over 2000 days to
:06:02. > :06:05.face interviews were conducted and 1029 in the Republic and an thousand
:06:06. > :06:12.and 12 in Northern Ireland with a margin of error of 3%. Let us start
:06:13. > :06:16.with the results. We asked how people felt Northern Ireland should
:06:17. > :06:28.be governed in the short to medium term...
:06:29. > :06:37.35% wanted the current situation to the name. Slightly more of people
:06:38. > :06:43.said they would like to see Northern Ireland unified with the site. Some
:06:44. > :06:52.people said, I don't know or they clicked other. One interesting point
:06:53. > :06:55.is, more people in the Republic favour an arrangement that involves
:06:56. > :06:57.Northern Ireland remaining in the UK.
:06:58. > :07:00.The same question in Northern Ireland got a bigger proportion
:07:01. > :07:03.in favour of remaining part of the UK when you add those two options.
:07:04. > :07:07.Only 13% of those surveyed wanted Northern
:07:08. > :07:14.Ireland to unify with the Republic in the short to medium term.
:07:15. > :07:17.If we drill down into the Northern Ireland figures, the results paint
:07:18. > :07:22.As you might expect, there's more support for a united
:07:23. > :07:25.Ireland among people who describe themselves as Catholic or brought up
:07:26. > :07:33.But what's interesting is that by adding those two first options -
:07:34. > :07:38.devolution and direct rule - we see that just over half of
:07:39. > :07:47.Catholics surveyed chose UK options in the short to medium term.
:07:48. > :07:51.While almost half of protestants, 49%, want a devolved government, 30%
:07:52. > :08:01.want Northern Ireland to be governed by direct rule from Westminster.
:08:02. > :08:04.Among Protestants and people brought up in a Protestant background that
:08:05. > :08:07.we surveyed, look how low the level of support for a United Ireland is.
:08:08. > :08:17.We also ask people if they would like to see a united Ireland in
:08:18. > :08:27.their own lifetime and there is a dramatic change.
:08:28. > :08:39.That is much higher than the 36% in the short to medium-term. In
:08:40. > :08:44.Northern Ireland... Again, much higher than the 13% in the short to
:08:45. > :08:49.medium term. And look at the don't know... Both North and South. The
:08:50. > :08:53.percentage undecided is significant. In terms of Northern Ireland,
:08:54. > :08:56.there is no big surprise 57% of Catholics want a united
:08:57. > :09:12.Ireland in their lifetime compared We thought we would ask all
:09:13. > :09:21.attention is what they make of the findings. Pearse Doherty, I need to
:09:22. > :09:25.put this to you, North or South, if a majority of people want to see a
:09:26. > :09:27.united Ireland in the short to medium term, what was the campaign
:09:28. > :09:31.all about? medium term, what was the campaign
:09:32. > :09:35.all about? If you look at the figures, people must determine what
:09:36. > :09:40.short-termist is an very few people would want a united Ireland in the
:09:41. > :09:43.short-term because of that any discussion or any talk between all
:09:44. > :09:49.the sections of society, it would create instability and problems.
:09:50. > :09:55.When you look at the long-term figures, it is very positive, when
:09:56. > :09:58.you exclude don't know, for the 1% in the North want a united Ireland
:09:59. > :10:04.in their own lifetime as opposed to 59% that tonight and in the south, a
:10:05. > :10:10.majority wants a united Ireland in their own lifetime. But you must
:10:11. > :10:14.accept, are you not surprised that a majority of Catholics in the short
:10:15. > :10:21.to medium-term in Northern Ireland don't want a united Ireland? No,
:10:22. > :10:25.what I am not surprised about at this stage, that is not the
:10:26. > :10:30.question, any short-term, do they want to see that without that
:10:31. > :10:33.transition and plan in terms of what I united Ireland would look like?
:10:34. > :10:39.What type of constitution or structures... They want to remain
:10:40. > :10:42.part of the UK. The question you're asking is not that Sinn Fein is
:10:43. > :10:47.presenting in terms of having a united Ireland joining the six
:10:48. > :10:52.counties with the 26 counties, what we were involved in is a new Ireland
:10:53. > :10:55.that is inclusive and that will happen with dialogue between all
:10:56. > :11:01.individuals and that is why we can see the figures dramatically
:11:02. > :11:05.changing... The figures in Northern Ireland, only a small majority, 57%,
:11:06. > :11:09.of Catholics want a united Ireland in their lifetime so how could you
:11:10. > :11:13.ever go about us winning the Protestant population that they
:11:14. > :11:19.would want that? Since you only have a very small majority in the
:11:20. > :11:23.Catholic opposition? I don't like talking in relation to religion and
:11:24. > :11:29.when you look at the population of the North, when you exclude don't
:11:30. > :11:32.know, for the 1% at this point in time want to see a united Ireland in
:11:33. > :11:40.their lifetime and I compare that to the Scottish referendum and the
:11:41. > :11:44.Scottish voted, for the 5% for independence, one year before the
:11:45. > :11:50.debate, 13 opinion polls show that support was less than 30%, we want
:11:51. > :11:54.debate, there is no debate at this point, what would happen if we got
:11:55. > :12:01.rid of back-to-back services and the dynamics of the economy? Arlene
:12:02. > :12:06.Foster is in the Nolan Live studio. What do you make of what Pearse
:12:07. > :12:11.Doherty was saying? All the wrong questions were asked and we should
:12:12. > :12:16.exclude don't know? For me, this is a very positive opinion poll, it
:12:17. > :12:19.shows that the union is secure and people are comfortable within the
:12:20. > :12:24.union in Northern Ireland and I think that we should remember this,
:12:25. > :12:29.this has been taken at a time when devolution has been going through
:12:30. > :12:32.some difficult months and can you imagine what the result would have
:12:33. > :12:38.been evolution was working properly? I would not get too smug. While the
:12:39. > :12:43.majority of Catholics might be happy in the UK, remember, this is just
:12:44. > :12:49.one survey, they are not voting for you in the election? They are not
:12:50. > :12:52.voting for unionist parties and maybe that is because you are
:12:53. > :12:57.banging on about flags every day and night and identity and not about the
:12:58. > :13:01.real-life issues that actually matter to people in this country?
:13:02. > :13:06.That is why that survey should be worrying. It is very reassuring for
:13:07. > :13:12.me. They will not vote for you. It is you that banks on a lot about
:13:13. > :13:16.flags and emblems, if you want me to talk about economic holiday... I
:13:17. > :13:21.have said this on a number of locations bus stop be graduated
:13:22. > :13:25.response was a long time ago. If you want me to talk about economics and
:13:26. > :13:32.education, I am happy to. Everyone is. It is a legitimate question, why
:13:33. > :13:37.are Catholics reluctant, according to the survey, we know that
:13:38. > :13:42.Catholics are happy to remain in the UK but we only reluctant to vote for
:13:43. > :13:49.parties like yours? That is a challenge from a party and a
:13:50. > :13:51.challenge for other parties. Traditionally, they have voted for
:13:52. > :13:56.nationalists parties because they identify with nationalist parties in
:13:57. > :14:00.recent perhaps Catholic issues and abortion and same-sex marriage and
:14:01. > :14:06.we're going to talk about that later on. What are you doing wrong? How
:14:07. > :14:09.can you reach out to those people? Were not doing much wrong when the
:14:10. > :14:15.poll tells you that the majority of people living in Northern Ireland
:14:16. > :14:18.are happy to be part of the UK. That is very good poll for unionists so
:14:19. > :14:29.don't try to turn this around as a negative for unionism. More reaction
:14:30. > :14:35.in Dublin. What hope do we have of united Ireland when people say that
:14:36. > :14:39.unionists should go back to Britain? Firstly, it will be decided in
:14:40. > :14:43.Northern Ireland and when you look back at the Good Friday Agreement,
:14:44. > :14:48.it was clearly stated that Google only have a united Ireland if we
:14:49. > :14:53.have a majority of people in Northern Ireland deciding on that so
:14:54. > :14:58.when you look at the result of this survey, it does state clearly that
:14:59. > :15:02.what the people in Northern Ireland want at this moment in time, both
:15:03. > :15:05.nationalists and unionists, and that is devolution and that is when the
:15:06. > :15:09.talks at the moment are so important and that is why it is so important
:15:10. > :15:15.to implement fully the Good Friday Agreement and also why the storm and
:15:16. > :15:19.high stocks are so important at this moment. Does this show that at the
:15:20. > :15:24.end of the day, all the people who said the petition back when would
:15:25. > :15:28.become the defect to reality and it would be impossible to enter this?
:15:29. > :15:37.This survey indicates that is what we are looking at? It is not short
:15:38. > :15:41.and medium-term. That is what we have two address. We have two
:15:42. > :15:46.progress in ways we can share this island between us. There are signs
:15:47. > :15:50.in Northern Ireland in the relationship between North and South
:15:51. > :15:54.which is healthy at the moment. And it is proven to be economically
:15:55. > :15:58.viable. There is tourism and the relationship is very good. I think
:15:59. > :16:05.it gives us a clear message that this survey, I welcome it,
:16:06. > :16:11.devolution is now what is wanted in Northern Ireland in this moment in
:16:12. > :16:16.time and me -- we must work it. It is an indication a majority of
:16:17. > :16:20.people north and south in the source -- short to medium term do not want
:16:21. > :16:25.it and you seem to be aiming for an ideal that the people in the short
:16:26. > :16:30.to medium term are out of touch. We have always had a founding value
:16:31. > :16:34.where we continue to work in that respect and I think we need to make
:16:35. > :16:37.the border irrelevant. We have the wherewithal with the workings of the
:16:38. > :16:42.Good Friday Agreement, St Andrews and the Gwent agreements to have
:16:43. > :16:47.greater economic Corporation in North and South. We have the
:16:48. > :16:51.opportunity to grow the economy in the north and south. We have not
:16:52. > :16:56.maximised the potential of the Good Friday Agreement. Politically, it is
:16:57. > :17:00.relatively recently that we have been given the mechanism that should
:17:01. > :17:04.the people in the north and South decide on a united Ireland, that
:17:05. > :17:10.mechanism is there because we changed the constitution. In the
:17:11. > :17:15.agreement that was overwhelmingly approved by the electorate north and
:17:16. > :17:20.south in May, 1998, by more than 94% of the people that voted, more than
:17:21. > :17:26.70% in the North. We have been given the mechanism that if the people
:17:27. > :17:28.decide they want a united Ireland, that provision is in our
:17:29. > :17:36.Constitution. Let's leave it there for the moment. That replaced the
:17:37. > :17:40.1920 and 21 agreements. We are going to leave it there and go back to
:17:41. > :17:46.Stephen Nolan. He is going to talk to his audience. Let's see what we
:17:47. > :17:52.think already. Go ahead. So far, what has happened is all this survey
:17:53. > :17:58.has highlighted is that it is time for a debate. It is on a united
:17:59. > :18:03.Ireland. To square the circle, cover social issues, how are you going to
:18:04. > :18:09.pay for it, run the country? I've heard Pearse Doherty here. Talking
:18:10. > :18:12.about why that vote was not great is there has not really been a
:18:13. > :18:17.discussion about it in the short and medium term. What is Sinn Fein doing
:18:18. > :18:22.every day our peer? Why are they not talking about it every day of the
:18:23. > :18:27.week? Of course they are. It is not reaching the people. All that survey
:18:28. > :18:32.has pointed out is most people will air on the side of caution. Better
:18:33. > :18:38.the devil you know than the devil you do not. If you put all your
:18:39. > :18:44.cards on the table and show everybody, north and south, I am
:18:45. > :18:48.sure there are people in Cork that wants to know how much it is going
:18:49. > :18:52.to cost. It is pretty much the same way as the hard done south regarding
:18:53. > :19:00.the bailout and bringing it back and labelled regrowing the economy. We
:19:01. > :19:03.will look at taxes and how that influences and influenced people in
:19:04. > :19:09.the survey on that question later. Stay with us for that. Yes, go
:19:10. > :19:13.ahead. That is you, go ahead. I think we are hearing the same tired
:19:14. > :19:18.question. What would have been interesting if we had a scenario, if
:19:19. > :19:25.the UK leads the European Union, does that make a united Ireland
:19:26. > :19:29.nearer or further away? That could be a fairly important reason for
:19:30. > :19:36.people in Northern Ireland voting either for leaving the European
:19:37. > :19:39.Union or actually voting against it. For me personally, if we leave the
:19:40. > :19:46.European Union, it would affect my bus cars, train pass. We do not
:19:47. > :19:50.know. These are big issues not even being thought about. We have got the
:19:51. > :19:54.same tired questions. Do the people in the South think it would be
:19:55. > :19:59.better for the UK to be in the European Union? So that they can
:20:00. > :20:05.share the services that they already share in Europe? Man in the white
:20:06. > :20:08.shirt. We should accept that the question is settled and get away
:20:09. > :20:17.from these issues and move to green issues. What question is settled?
:20:18. > :20:22.The survey made it very clear... In the UK for ever more. I you serious?
:20:23. > :20:27.Sinn Fein cannot have a political position and argue for it? We can
:20:28. > :20:32.argue for it but we should accept that the question is settled. Move
:20:33. > :20:39.on for how long? Move on to the issue that matters. I am stating the
:20:40. > :20:47.patiently obvious, a united Ireland is their political objective. You
:20:48. > :20:52.are saying move on! Focus on lives. Look at the waiting lists, the gay
:20:53. > :20:57.blood and, these people affect us as opposed to ideology. I want Northern
:20:58. > :21:02.Ireland issues to be debated in stead of this session again and
:21:03. > :21:06.again, it is silly. This is just a survey. It is not saying what every
:21:07. > :21:11.single person in Ireland and Northern Ireland things. It is a
:21:12. > :21:17.statistically robust survey. Miriam, you have some results. I will pick
:21:18. > :21:24.up with my audience. That gentleman there are saying we need to move on,
:21:25. > :21:28.what do you think, Annie? I think we need to work in the area that has
:21:29. > :21:32.been sketched out by the Good Friday Agreement. Which is about increasing
:21:33. > :21:37.cooperation and friendship between the people north and south. That is
:21:38. > :21:43.a big enough task for our generation. A united Ireland is a
:21:44. > :21:46.nice aspiration. Are the people of the Republic prepared to make
:21:47. > :21:52.sacrifices in terms of taxation, finance, social harmony, to bring
:21:53. > :21:56.900,000 Northern Unionists into a united state? I have my doubts.
:21:57. > :22:01.Let's try without forcing anybody to a particular destination, try and
:22:02. > :22:05.become better friends, north and south, on the basis of that we can
:22:06. > :22:13.talk about constitutional future later. We are actually going to ask
:22:14. > :22:17.questions about taxation. What have you heard so far? Do we need to move
:22:18. > :22:23.on? Has this survey surprised you so far? I think this supreme irony of
:22:24. > :22:30.the discussion that we are having in my opinion is that the culture of
:22:31. > :22:33.the unionist population would be better served under a Dublin
:22:34. > :22:41.government than would be served under... How do you say that? It is
:22:42. > :22:45.down to population. The unionist population would be just shy of 20%
:22:46. > :22:51.of the population of this island. They currently make up 1% of the UK.
:22:52. > :22:56.Unionist MPs in Westminster do not have a voice and are not listened
:22:57. > :23:01.to. If they were in the door, they would be properly in a coalition
:23:02. > :23:06.government... I think a lot would disagree with you. OK, we are going
:23:07. > :23:11.to give you more salt. We asked another question, just to try and
:23:12. > :23:17.test how strong support for a united Ireland in the long-term is. First,
:23:18. > :23:21.a reminder. In the Republic, 66% said they favoured a united Ireland
:23:22. > :23:30.in their lifetime. If it went paying less tax, support increased to 73%.
:23:31. > :23:38.If there were to be no change in the level of tax, 63% would be in
:23:39. > :23:44.favour. But if a united Ireland meant people in the Republic had to
:23:45. > :23:49.pay more tax, supporting the survey. Magically to 31%.
:23:50. > :23:57.30% favoured a united Ireland in their lifetime. But if it meant
:23:58. > :24:02.paying less tax, support from respondents in Northern Ireland is
:24:03. > :24:07.flat in the margin of error. If they were to be no change in the level of
:24:08. > :24:13.tax, 22% would be in favour. Look at this. If a united Ireland meant
:24:14. > :24:16.people in Northern Ireland had to pay more tax, support again falls
:24:17. > :24:28.dramatically, 11%. Pearse Doherty, even for people in
:24:29. > :24:34.their own lifetime wanting a united Ireland, they are not willing to pay
:24:35. > :24:37.money for that. I believe in a united Ireland in my heart and my
:24:38. > :24:43.head. I think it will make a stronger economy. It is not what I
:24:44. > :24:50.asked. That issue does not arise in my view. What we will have is the
:24:51. > :24:54.synergy of 6.4 million people on the island. We will get rid of two
:24:55. > :24:57.currencies and exchange rates and employment laws and have a stronger
:24:58. > :25:03.economy has a result. You will not need more tax. Two have services,
:25:04. > :25:07.two transport systems, you would have more efficiencies... We can
:25:08. > :25:11.argue all night about whether that will happen. People have a fear and
:25:12. > :25:15.would see they might have to pay more money if there was to be a
:25:16. > :25:21.united Ireland. This survey indicates they would not pick that
:25:22. > :25:25.option. People do not like to pay more tax. That is understandable.
:25:26. > :25:30.That is the point I am making. We need to have a real debate. That is
:25:31. > :25:33.why Sinn Fein had called for a Green paper on Irish unity. What do people
:25:34. > :25:37.that share the aspirations want to do to stop that discussion? How
:25:38. > :25:43.would we plan? What type of structure and rights would we have
:25:44. > :25:45.so everybody had a inclusive society? What constitution,
:25:46. > :25:50.parliament? These questions need to be asked and they were addressed in
:25:51. > :25:55.Scotland and Catalonia. You see a surge of people that move in the
:25:56. > :26:01.direction of independence, or unity, in my view in the Irish Republic. I
:26:02. > :26:07.think you are going to come in now, Stephen. You are asking questions
:26:08. > :26:12.and I am looking for answers. Here is the big sell, Christmas has come
:26:13. > :26:16.early, I will give you one minute, sell it to me. Why would a united
:26:17. > :26:22.island that everybody watching across this island, sell it in terms
:26:23. > :26:26.of the numbing benefits, go! We would get rid of two currencies,
:26:27. > :26:31.exchange rates. How much would we say? You build the economy and if
:26:32. > :26:38.you look at the last European country that reunified in terms of
:26:39. > :26:44.Germany, the GDP of East and West increased when it was reunified. You
:26:45. > :26:47.will get rid of that. How much would you say? Are their numbers behind
:26:48. > :26:51.this? No doubt you have thought it through, sell this denied. It would
:26:52. > :26:59.benefit us economic lead by how much? There are no numbers? What do
:27:00. > :27:03.you mean? ! The British Exchequer would release the numbers in
:27:04. > :27:12.terms... Also in terms of the income that was raised, been others are not
:27:13. > :27:20.accurate... Let her speak to you. It is ?9.8 billion, we receive in one
:27:21. > :27:24.year. He is asking us to leave an economy of 60 million people and go
:27:25. > :27:29.into an economy of 6.4 million and that will somehow make it a sense
:27:30. > :27:36.for the people of Northern Ireland. I hope you are not spinning me and
:27:37. > :27:44.that this is accurate! Encase people did not get that, you are we get 9.8
:27:45. > :27:49.billion over and above. That is the difference between the taxes... That
:27:50. > :27:56.the figures from her Majesty 's Treasury. They are available. I was
:27:57. > :28:02.going to say 10 billion. I will not fight for 9.8. Does Sinn Fein accept
:28:03. > :28:08.these figures? Let me tell her what the figures are, 17.7 billion euros,
:28:09. > :28:11.the Treasury claims is spent on the north and the British Treasury in
:28:12. > :28:21.their own report in 2012 claims the income from the North is 14.1
:28:22. > :28:28.Stirling. What is missing in that... Can I ask you a question, Jimmy? Is
:28:29. > :28:33.it your position, we have not spoken before, good evening, Jimmy, is it
:28:34. > :28:37.the position of the Irish government for a united Ireland at this moment
:28:38. > :28:45.in time in the current economic climate? That is hypothetical,
:28:46. > :28:48.obviously. It is a big question. Do not give me hypothetical! Can the
:28:49. > :28:50.Irish government afford a united Ireland at this moment in time # yes
:28:51. > :29:10.or no? No, really. CROWD CHEERS... There is nothing
:29:11. > :29:16.hypothetical about it? You cannot afford a united Ireland. How short
:29:17. > :29:21.are you? Couple of quid, couple of million, couple of Ilion? When you
:29:22. > :29:28.look at something like tourism has an example of how a body can foster
:29:29. > :29:35.creativity, you will see it is very successful... How far away from
:29:36. > :29:41.affordability are we? Not how much tourism is costing. Are we light
:29:42. > :29:47.years away? Is it high in the sky, or close? There are two aspects.
:29:48. > :29:50.Affordability and with the economy going, we could arrive but it would
:29:51. > :29:55.be a long journey but we could arrive there. Then there is
:29:56. > :29:59.consent. Without majority consent in Northern Ireland, it will not
:30:00. > :30:04.happen. The feedback that I am getting and it is obvious, it will
:30:05. > :30:11.not be forthcoming from the Nationalists, or Unionists for a
:30:12. > :30:17.long time. Can we really not afford a united Ireland? Is that it? Yes,
:30:18. > :30:23.we can afford it if people are prepared to pay an additional two US
:30:24. > :30:29.sees, universal social charge brings in about 4 billion. Two of them
:30:30. > :30:34.would manage for one year to pay the cheque from her Majesty's
:30:35. > :30:37.government. But you do not have a normal functioning economy in
:30:38. > :30:41.Northern Ireland. We have a public sector employment economy. You do
:30:42. > :30:47.not have a wealth creating sector that is adequate to make a
:30:48. > :30:50.contribution retaining services at the level to which people in
:30:51. > :30:57.Northern Ireland have become accustomed.
:30:58. > :31:04.People in the Republic of gone three years of an and perhaps it is based
:31:05. > :31:10.on time and at another time, people might be willing to pay more tax and
:31:11. > :31:15.maybe pay an additional amount for the dream of a united Ireland? I
:31:16. > :31:22.think the Irish people, some of us and it is reflected in poetry and
:31:23. > :31:25.literature, they are dreamers, but generally, people are concerned
:31:26. > :31:31.about the tax they must pay and even people who are not so young, when
:31:32. > :31:35.asked about, in my lifetime, they will tend to say with their heart,
:31:36. > :31:42.yes, I would like to see a united Ireland. When it comes down to the
:31:43. > :31:48.dignity of paying for this, that is a separate issue. The aspiration to
:31:49. > :31:51.unity is enshrined in the Belfast agreement and this is not a debate
:31:52. > :31:58.that we need, it is cooperation, when YouTube killed on that
:31:59. > :32:08.agreement and deal with issues like agriculture and energy and health.
:32:09. > :32:12.With Synergy... I will stay talking to you for the moment, I am handing
:32:13. > :32:17.back to Stephen. He will stick with his panel and audience. I will be
:32:18. > :32:22.back so do not go away. I am enjoying this! We will be back with
:32:23. > :32:36.Miriam later on to hear from the Dublin audience about the topical
:32:37. > :32:42.issues. Right... Mark Devenport is here. The Irish government has said
:32:43. > :32:47.on live television that they cannot afford a united Ireland? Whenever I
:32:48. > :32:57.say or the panel, this programme will be remembered as the no, really
:32:58. > :33:02.answer, he did not take refuge in being hypothetical, in days gone by,
:33:03. > :33:07.people would not say that, he has just done that. What is the
:33:08. > :33:10.implication? It spells out what a lot of people already know, the
:33:11. > :33:16.reason those figures for the short to medium term, people aspiring to
:33:17. > :33:20.that, it is so much less than longer term aspiration, people are
:33:21. > :33:26.concerned about any change to the status quo, in terms of political
:33:27. > :33:30.damage and security and economic league and that is concerning on
:33:31. > :33:35.both sides of the border. What else do you pick up from that poll? We
:33:36. > :33:42.can look at some of these figures. The attitudes towards a united
:33:43. > :33:46.Ireland. We have a different attitudes. Catholics and
:33:47. > :33:52.Protestants, devolution, picking up as the most popular option on both
:33:53. > :33:56.sides. Quite strong support for direct rule within the Protestant
:33:57. > :34:00.community but we must remember that the timing of this was whenever
:34:01. > :34:06.devolution was at a very low point with rolling resignations so that
:34:07. > :34:11.perhaps explains that sense of disillusionment. And on the Catholic
:34:12. > :34:13.side, if you are together those figures, it is slightly surprising
:34:14. > :34:21.that you have majority support for UK options. Doug Beattie, your party
:34:22. > :34:27.might be responsible for that direct rule statistic? You're messing
:34:28. > :34:31.around, you walked out? Destabilising the Executive and look
:34:32. > :34:41.at that? I would completely disagree. We made a very so sink
:34:42. > :34:44.decision based on a murder and a dysfunctional Executive and we
:34:45. > :34:50.walked out and that was it. The Executive carried on, the ministry
:34:51. > :34:53.post was still there, the Executive would have carried on and the Ulster
:34:54. > :35:00.unionist Party... You're not worried about that direct rule finding? 30%,
:35:01. > :35:07.look at that, in the Protestant background said direct rule? That
:35:08. > :35:11.does not concern you? Of course it does, our party once devolution, we
:35:12. > :35:17.set up those institutions, we nearly spent ourselves to get devolution so
:35:18. > :35:27.of course that concerns us but we have said this again and again, this
:35:28. > :35:32.was taken in the middle of an in out post. We did not jump back in,
:35:33. > :35:39.somebody else could have filled that post. David Ford, any reactions? It
:35:40. > :35:43.is not surprising that the wrist wrong support for the religion north
:35:44. > :35:50.and south, Catholic and Protestant, because in 1998 what we got in the
:35:51. > :35:54.Good Friday Agreement and Arlene Foster might want to refine this
:35:55. > :35:57.with St Andrews but what we have got is recognition of the three sets of
:35:58. > :36:03.relationships, partnership in Northern Ireland, north, south and
:36:04. > :36:07.east, west. That is the only copper mines which will ever get broad
:36:08. > :36:11.acceptance in the future and it is quite clear that is accepted by
:36:12. > :36:16.representatives in Dublin and also by the clear majority of the people.
:36:17. > :36:24.Claire Hanna, your party once a united Ireland. Is this survey a
:36:25. > :36:27.kick in the teeth? Our party does believe that a united Ireland would
:36:28. > :36:31.be greater than the sum of its parts but people had every right to ask
:36:32. > :36:36.that improve their lives. Look at how people are thinking. I would
:36:37. > :36:43.agree, there is much more that needs to be done to show how services can
:36:44. > :36:46.work. But ultimately, and our primary project, is to make Northern
:36:47. > :36:54.Ireland work as nationalists should not be afraid of that. Do you know
:36:55. > :36:59.what? It is close to December, I am fat enough to be Santa Claus. Here
:37:00. > :37:06.is a Christmas present. You have a prominent Orangemen, Mervyn Gibson,
:37:07. > :37:13.cell a united Ireland to him. He is entitled to ask. Tell him. Sell it!
:37:14. > :37:19.Services, if you have a hospital in all the gelding or Daisy Lowe, that
:37:20. > :37:23.catchment area is wider, but we are right to design services as a new
:37:24. > :37:32.project and you are right to ask... You are selling. Fewer hospitals?
:37:33. > :37:37.Nationalism is not chest beating and music, it is about a new project.
:37:38. > :37:44.This is a big cell? I will ask again... Selby top three benefits to
:37:45. > :37:50.a united Ireland because the people surveyed here are not getting that.
:37:51. > :37:53.What is your first eight point? This is a small island, it does not make
:37:54. > :37:59.sense to have two sets of everything. People will get improved
:38:00. > :38:05.services. What are they? What I am selling right now... If I walk into
:38:06. > :38:11.a car showroom and people say, look at this car, it is beautiful, look
:38:12. > :38:18.at those seats, leather, lovely, it costs this. Give me that they'd take
:38:19. > :38:23.it seal. What is the number one thing that will make people think,
:38:24. > :38:26.my life has been transformed. Nationalists are not afraid to say
:38:27. > :38:32.that at the moment we are selling making Northern Ireland work. You
:38:33. > :38:37.cannot do it? I have never said that tomorrow we will vote this through,
:38:38. > :38:42.we must reconcile people here and people on the side have the right to
:38:43. > :38:48.ask, they have just had an economic near death experience and Jimmy was
:38:49. > :38:53.right to talk about that. We were looking over the statistics on a
:38:54. > :39:00.united Ireland in the lifetime and it is a very big sell to sell this
:39:01. > :39:03.immediately and it will obviously be a longer term project but you would
:39:04. > :39:08.have to say that on these figures, 30% supporting united Ireland, the
:39:09. > :39:14.Secretary of State will not be calling for the border poll any time
:39:15. > :39:17.soon. Trying to stabilise things seems to be the only real goal in
:39:18. > :39:19.time. That's a sense
:39:20. > :39:21.of political attitudes in Northern Are those fault lines repeated
:39:22. > :39:25.when we look at how people here Well, 44% of people in
:39:26. > :39:37.our NI survey said they're British. But there's a significant group who
:39:38. > :39:47.think of themselves as Northern Irish - 22%. Look at this
:39:48. > :39:50.difference in how people view Those outside Belfast are more than
:39:51. > :39:55.twice as likely to refer to themselves as
:39:56. > :40:18.Northern Irish than in the city, 25% Interesting. Well, the Northern or
:40:19. > :40:24.as identity has come up in recent times, the new kid on the block, as
:40:25. > :40:30.it were. It is hard to know exactly what people mean by that, it is
:40:31. > :40:34.ambiguous, different things can mean different things to different people
:40:35. > :40:37.and there has been some research suggesting it is maybe not such a
:40:38. > :40:43.very strong identity, it perhaps changes over time, you might get
:40:44. > :40:46.Catholics identifying as Northern Ireland and things happen when the
:40:47. > :40:50.Union flag protests, maybe less so. One thing that seems to be the case
:40:51. > :40:57.as a people who identify as Northern Ireland tend to know people from the
:40:58. > :41:00.other side and they mix socially and perhaps this is where we see the
:41:01. > :41:05.rest of Northern Ireland being stronger than Belfast, perhaps from
:41:06. > :41:11.being closer to the border? Is that significant? What is significant is
:41:12. > :41:15.that 55 people living in the North but not identify as British. They
:41:16. > :41:22.identify as Irish, Northern Irish or other. And that does mirror that
:41:23. > :41:30.figure looking back to... That is not necessarily true. How do you
:41:31. > :41:34.think of yourself first? First and foremost as British? If you look at
:41:35. > :41:40.the previous statistics, the number of people who supported devolution
:41:41. > :41:44.plus the number supporting a united Ireland, 65% of the Catholic
:41:45. > :41:48.population, if the 1% of the Protestant population and what that
:41:49. > :41:50.means is that the vast majority of people living in the North do not
:41:51. > :41:55.support being governed by Westminster. Mervyn was Mike people
:41:56. > :41:59.would describe themselves as Irish and they have written the passports
:42:00. > :42:04.so there is ambiguity about that question but I can see why a
:42:05. > :42:07.significant number in Belfast classify themselves as British
:42:08. > :42:10.because people are still living along interface walls and they
:42:11. > :42:16.identify with the Roman particular community. Arlene Foster, are you
:42:17. > :42:22.first and foremost British or Northern Irish? If I was answering
:42:23. > :42:25.the question in the census, I would say British but I would consider
:42:26. > :42:32.myself as Northern Irish. And British. Ever consider yourself
:42:33. > :42:35.Irish? Not really, Northern Irish. Who would you cheer for in the
:42:36. > :42:43.rugby? Ireland, we have Northern Ireland players! Sometimes. Don't be
:42:44. > :42:46.afraid to say that. I am not afraid, I don't think anybody would say that
:42:47. > :42:52.Arlene Foster is afraid of saying that. Your Irish when watching
:42:53. > :42:56.rugby? We have some fabulous players from Ulster. And you know that. What
:42:57. > :43:04.about you? British or Northern Irish? I have always been Irish. And
:43:05. > :43:12.I am also British. I have no issues with that. And I am very proud of my
:43:13. > :43:24.identity. OK. She is far better looking than me, we need to head
:43:25. > :43:30.back to marry and RTE. -- million. -- Miriam. She is waiting for us.
:43:31. > :43:32.Right, as you can see we are broadcasting
:43:33. > :43:35.together live across Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.
:43:36. > :43:37.This time round we'll be concentrating on some of the key
:43:38. > :43:41.What do people North and South think about same-sex
:43:42. > :43:52.And do we have much in common with those living just across the border?
:43:53. > :43:58.We thought we would test what people in Dublin and Belfast really know
:43:59. > :44:15.about each other, do you recognise any of these faces? Enda Kenny, the
:44:16. > :44:21.Taoiseach. Looks like George Bush. That is the Irish President. People
:44:22. > :44:26.think he is from Titanic. The Taoiseach, Enda Kenny. He is the
:44:27. > :44:36.minister, the headman. Peter Robinson. He is the partner with
:44:37. > :44:43.Martin McGuinness? Peter Robinson. The First Minister. I know who he
:44:44. > :44:49.is. Carl Frampton. Carl Frampton. I do not know. Who is he? Oscar
:44:50. > :45:01.Pistorius? Rugby player? I don't know. Peter Taylor. -- Katie Taylor.
:45:02. > :45:15.Boxer. Katie Taylor. I don't know. Haven't got a clue. Nope. Miriam.
:45:16. > :45:25.Miriam O'Callaghan. I don't have a baldy. I know her face. Presenter? I
:45:26. > :45:33.do not know. Stephen Nolan! Everybody knows him! Others are we
:45:34. > :45:37.boy. Stephen Nolan. He is well fed, like myself. Is he a chef. John
:45:38. > :45:51.Daly? Stephen Nolan, Nolan Live? That man was fatter than me, I will
:45:52. > :45:56.tell you right now. I don't agree with what that
:45:57. > :45:59.man said about me at all. Anyway it's only a snapshot
:46:00. > :46:00.of opinion. How similar are we when it comes to
:46:01. > :46:05.the big social issues north Those of you watching in the south
:46:06. > :46:11.will know that same-sex marriage has been a huge issue culminating
:46:12. > :46:13.in an historic vote, becoming the first country in the world to adopt
:46:14. > :46:19.same-sex marriage by popular vote. Northern Ireland, by contrast,
:46:20. > :46:21.is the only part of the United Kingdom where same-sex
:46:22. > :46:23.marriage isn't available. But does that reflect what
:46:24. > :46:30.people think North and South? To get a sense of that,
:46:31. > :46:32.we asked how comfortable people would be if a close family member
:46:33. > :46:37.married someone of the same gender. A large majority, 67%,
:46:38. > :46:43.of people in the Republic said they'd be either fairly comfortable
:46:44. > :46:47.or very comfortable with it and that's broadly in line with
:46:48. > :46:49.the referendum earlier this year. In our survey,
:46:50. > :46:52.one in five people in the Republic say they'd still be either fairly or
:46:53. > :46:55.very uncomfortable with it. So that's what's happening
:46:56. > :46:57.in the Republic. What's Northern
:46:58. > :46:59.Ireland going to say? 64% percent are either fairly or
:47:00. > :47:15.very comfortable with the idea of having a same-sex marriage
:47:16. > :47:16.in the family. Actually,
:47:17. > :47:18.that's similar to the Republic. We've ignored the people who said
:47:19. > :47:21.don't know, but that still leaves nearly a quarter of people
:47:22. > :47:35.in Northern Ireland who are fairly We also asked how people would feel
:47:36. > :47:42.if a close family member married somebody with a different religious
:47:43. > :47:47.background. In the south, the survey showed a very high level of comfort
:47:48. > :47:51.with marriage between people of a different skin colour, mirrored in
:47:52. > :47:57.Northern Ireland. It is similar with attitudes towards marriage, between
:47:58. > :48:00.religious backgrounds in the family. 79% were broadly comfortable with it
:48:01. > :48:07.in the south and Northern Ireland appeared a little bit more accepting
:48:08. > :48:10.of afferent fate 's, with 84%. Northern Ireland seemed slightly
:48:11. > :48:18.more comfortable with these issues. -- different faith. You carried out
:48:19. > :48:24.this survey, Martha. Do you think there might be a reason for that? We
:48:25. > :48:29.do. We think the majority of people in the North with a faith, are
:48:30. > :48:35.either Catholic or Protestant. In the south, 85% declare themselves
:48:36. > :48:37.catholic in the last census. The remaining 15%, there is a vast
:48:38. > 0:41:44swathe of different religions and