:00:00. > :00:16.Storm want the lies an abortion. We are also asking, should bonfires
:00:17. > :00:21.need licenses? What about these people who take their kids to school
:00:22. > :00:23.or the shops and Debbie John is? Plus music from Valentine's Day from
:00:24. > :01:06.Jack Pack. MLAs are voting to change abortion
:01:07. > :01:11.law in Northern Ireland. Should be allowed for rape, incest or fatal
:01:12. > :01:16.faecal abnormalities? It's a big one for our politicians. We will debate
:01:17. > :01:25.this here in this studio tonight. Let's start with you. The country is
:01:26. > :01:28.divided. The politicians at Stormont are representing the views of the
:01:29. > :01:34.vast majority of people in Northern Ireland and that was proven recently
:01:35. > :01:41.by a consultation of the justice minister. Over 99% of people were
:01:42. > :01:46.post-change. We don't know their views yet. I am pretty confident
:01:47. > :01:51.that the politicians at Stormont will uphold the rights of the child.
:01:52. > :01:59.I don't know if there has been a shift change from the DUP or not.
:02:00. > :02:02.Maybe some people missed this. Some commentators are saying it is
:02:03. > :02:07.significant. It has the potential to be significant. The DUP are not
:02:08. > :02:11.saying a definite no any more. They are saying that their Health
:02:12. > :02:15.Minister will establish a working group and it will make
:02:16. > :02:20.recommendations as to how the issue of fatal faecal abnormality can be
:02:21. > :02:26.addressed, including if necessary draft legislation. It's clear what
:02:27. > :02:29.they are actually saying. There is a problem in Northern Ireland and
:02:30. > :02:37.women are not being given perinatal care. Over the last number of
:02:38. > :02:41.months... Women have presented their stories to the politicians and many
:02:42. > :02:48.of those women testified to the fact they were not given the support they
:02:49. > :02:53.need at that particular time during a diagnosis. It is very important
:02:54. > :03:00.that the MLAs recognise that. But the DUP are saying they might
:03:01. > :03:05.legislate. I am confident they will continue to uphold the rights of the
:03:06. > :03:08.unborn child. There is an election coming up in May. That is an
:03:09. > :03:12.important time for those of us who will be campaigning to ensure the
:03:13. > :03:17.rights of the unborn child are protected. They have proven that
:03:18. > :03:23.today. I'm just back from Stormont. The debate is very clear, there is a
:03:24. > :03:28.unanimous clip you that the majority of politicians want to protect
:03:29. > :03:37.unborn children. Unanimous? I believe so. They represent the views
:03:38. > :03:46.of the people here. We can see the DUP party, members of the Ulster
:03:47. > :03:50.Unionist Party, TUV. We can see that they are clearly representing the
:03:51. > :03:56.views of the people. Of course they are representing the views of the
:03:57. > :04:02.people! They are pro-life views. That's what we're talking about.
:04:03. > :04:05.We're talking about abortion. I believe we will win the vote and
:04:06. > :04:11.there will be no change in legislation. Winning the vote is not
:04:12. > :04:14.unanimous, is it? The vast majority of people they have elected
:04:15. > :04:19.politicians to represent them in Northern Ireland and the leading
:04:20. > :04:24.political party is representing the views of the people along with SDLP
:04:25. > :04:35.and other members. Why is the DUP said to you?
:04:36. > :04:41.I don't believe any member of the DUP will legislate to change the
:04:42. > :04:48.abortion law. But they were putting forward that it is very important
:04:49. > :04:56.that proper care is in place... I think this is significant. I was
:04:57. > :05:02.speaking to members of the DUP its dormant today and is very clear, in
:05:03. > :05:06.their presentation in the Assembly, that they are looking at this as a
:05:07. > :05:12.life-and-death issue. What happens in a case where a mother has been
:05:13. > :05:17.told, a tragic case, where a mother has been told, your baby has a fatal
:05:18. > :05:26.faecal abnormality coming has no chance of survival? I think you were
:05:27. > :05:31.listening to Doctor Ash today, no one has the right nor the
:05:32. > :05:34.information available to say when a child will live or die and how long
:05:35. > :05:39.that child will live, whether it will survive in the womb or how long
:05:40. > :05:44.it will survive unborn. What actually was being said on the radio
:05:45. > :05:49.today was that what should be pertinent here is the health of the
:05:50. > :05:53.mother as well as the baby and if the mother's life is in danger or
:05:54. > :05:59.indeed her mental health is in danger, those could be grounds for
:06:00. > :06:05.an abortion. That is what guidelines are all about. I agree that mothers
:06:06. > :06:09.who receive diagnosis in pregnancy should be given perinatal and
:06:10. > :06:13.hospice care for the baby. But the question is, a mother who was
:06:14. > :06:17.suicidal because she does not want to give... There is no evidence to
:06:18. > :06:25.say that because there has been a presentation recently in Dublin that
:06:26. > :06:29.looked at women in pregnancy who were presented with a suicidal
:06:30. > :06:33.tendencies who were given proper support through the pregnancy and
:06:34. > :06:36.one happy to continue with their pregnancy. But if a mother is
:06:37. > :06:40.suicidal and says, if I have a baby, I would take my own life, do you
:06:41. > :06:47.think that mothers should have to go to England for an abortion? In those
:06:48. > :06:53.cases, as any person who presents themselves with suicidal tendency,
:06:54. > :06:55.must be supported with psychological care is eye-catching treatment. I
:06:56. > :07:02.don't believe taking the life of their unborn child will eliminate
:07:03. > :07:07.that tendency. You are not from the show before Christmas we did a poll.
:07:08. > :07:12.Only one in five people in Northern Ireland agree with Bernadette's
:07:13. > :07:22.hard-line views on abortion. Do you remember your own poll? 20% said
:07:23. > :07:26.abortion should never be available. 67% should be available in case of
:07:27. > :07:30.beetle abnormality and 85% if women are pregnant as a result of rape.
:07:31. > :07:36.But if the bid to change the law fails tonight, and that is being
:07:37. > :07:40.predicted, can you not take that as a signal that the overwhelming will
:07:41. > :07:44.of the people in Northern Ireland is that they do not want to support
:07:45. > :07:50.abortion? It just means our politicians think that. How many
:07:51. > :07:57.people out in the audience actually voted based on a party's position on
:07:58. > :08:00.abortion? Most people elected in Northern Ireland are elected on an
:08:01. > :08:06.orange or green ticket, and that's the reality. Absolute rubbish.
:08:07. > :08:10.Politicians will tell you the one of the questions on the doorsteps is
:08:11. > :08:13.clearly whether they agree with abortion or not. Many of the
:08:14. > :08:18.politicians are elected on that basis and I have proof. I run
:08:19. > :08:21.campaigns during every election period and the majority of people
:08:22. > :08:30.here are challenging the politicians. Why do opinion polls
:08:31. > :08:37.show that the majority of people in Northern Ireland do not agree? If
:08:38. > :08:42.you say to somebody, do you agree with abortion on demand? They go,
:08:43. > :08:48.no. When you say, do you think it is right that women should be forced to
:08:49. > :08:53.go to England like George Horner said, if you have the money and you
:08:54. > :08:57.have any kind of a pregnancy that means you don't want to continue it,
:08:58. > :09:03.you can get on a boat or plane, you can go to England, but if you don't
:09:04. > :09:08.have the money, that's it. But you would not be satisfied with abortion
:09:09. > :09:13.the fatal faecal abnormality were raped, you want the abortion act
:09:14. > :09:17.into Northern Ireland, don't you? I don't think it should be part of the
:09:18. > :09:25.criminal justice system, it should be part of a health care issue. I
:09:26. > :09:31.think we should trust the women who get on planes to go to England, who
:09:32. > :09:34.take abortion pills, and trust those women who know whether or not they
:09:35. > :09:41.can continue a pregnancy and bring up a child. Let me finish.
:09:42. > :09:49.Bernadette got a good outing on this. Having a child, a baby, is not
:09:50. > :09:54.just for nine months, it is over 18 years. And I know this personally.
:09:55. > :09:59.Given that, most of the women who go to England for abortions are already
:10:00. > :10:05.mothers, they know what they're doing, we need to trust women who
:10:06. > :10:13.know. I am glad you recognised it as a baby and they are mothers. I have
:10:14. > :10:21.already got children. What happens if you have to recognise an innocent
:10:22. > :10:29.unborn child in the mother? She knows whether she can continue or
:10:30. > :10:43.not. Better social support for those women. That does happen. Young
:10:44. > :10:50.Mander. -- man there. There is a matter of equality. There is a big
:10:51. > :10:55.issue of criminalisation, criminalising the theme all
:10:56. > :11:02.involved. This is 1861 legislation. How would you change the? There is a
:11:03. > :11:10.meeting of minds between the two ladies here. The 67 act by maps
:11:11. > :11:14.pushes boundaries too far to far too many people. But there's a meeting
:11:15. > :11:22.of two ideologies here. The extension the 67 act when women were
:11:23. > :11:30.up-to-date with the rest of the UK, in Northern Ireland, we tend to be
:11:31. > :11:35.more conservative. To get consensus throughout the political scheme and
:11:36. > :11:41.society, you take a cross-section of the audience it tonight, politicians
:11:42. > :11:46.need to be allowed a free vote. This is a matter of conscience and should
:11:47. > :11:52.be treated as such. You think you all should prevent oil abortion so
:11:53. > :11:56.is the logical therefore for it to be an offence for a woman to travel
:11:57. > :12:05.to England for an abortion? Would you criminalise that woman? I pick
:12:06. > :12:11.up on what our audience spoke about. Let's not pick up on that guy's
:12:12. > :12:17.point. He was addressing a point made. When we talk about
:12:18. > :12:22.discrimination and denying people rights, abortion denies an unborn
:12:23. > :12:28.child the right to life. What this legislation we're here to discuss is
:12:29. > :12:33.about is about discriminating against special-needs children
:12:34. > :12:39.because they are special needs. I have asked to do is how many times,
:12:40. > :12:43.I have lost count. I'm just looking for an answer tonight. For a woman
:12:44. > :12:46.that gets on a plane and goes to England for an abortion, do you
:12:47. > :12:52.think that woman should be criminalised all those people who
:12:53. > :12:57.help her go to England? You seem to have such a big issue in listening
:12:58. > :13:02.to what I have had to say. I believe that every woman should be protected
:13:03. > :13:06.and I believe every unborn child should be protected. I don't think
:13:07. > :13:14.abortion is good law and in Northern Ireland, we have a low here... So
:13:15. > :13:18.should the woman be criminalised? Women in the UK should be brought in
:13:19. > :13:22.line with the rest of the women in Northern Ireland where we care for
:13:23. > :13:28.both mother and child. Every time I asked this question, is it me? A
:13:29. > :13:31.woman that gets on a plane and goes to England for an abortion, and we
:13:32. > :13:37.have seen cases where that has happened, should that be illegal?
:13:38. > :13:43.What have you already heard from the Public prosecution service? It is
:13:44. > :13:45.illegal here in the crime is committed here, then the law will do
:13:46. > :13:58.that crime. It is a stupid question because I
:13:59. > :14:01.have made it very clear to you that the mother and the child should be
:14:02. > :14:07.protected and we have good health care for mothers in pregnancy for
:14:08. > :14:13.the child. For some reason you will not answer the question with a yes
:14:14. > :14:18.or no. I have answered it very clearly. It is so clear I do not
:14:19. > :14:23.understand the answer. A woman gets on the plane, this is such a huge
:14:24. > :14:26.issue for some women, and you are entitled to your opinion... Actually
:14:27. > :14:33.I represent the vast majority of people here and I have petitions to
:14:34. > :14:38.prove it. You represent the vast majority of people? Let us do a
:14:39. > :14:50.straw poll. Put your hand up if she represents you in the audience. Not
:14:51. > :14:58.a scientific study. We should have a referendum. I think that was about
:14:59. > :15:01.four people. You have such a problem with the fact that you know I
:15:02. > :15:07.represent the vast majority of people. You can come into my office
:15:08. > :15:13.at any point. Let us have a referendum then. I can let you to
:15:14. > :15:18.see all of the petitions that have been signed over the years. You
:15:19. > :15:23.would be happy with a referendum where everyone votes to see if they
:15:24. > :15:26.want abortion coming out of the criminal law in Northern Ireland?
:15:27. > :15:30.The question about criminalising women, it is already the case where
:15:31. > :15:35.there is a woman before the courts charged by causing her own abortion
:15:36. > :15:41.by taking abortion pills. We cannot talk about an act of court here. We
:15:42. > :15:46.can say that she faces up to life imprisonment because of that and do
:15:47. > :15:49.you think that is right? The act protects every unborn child and the
:15:50. > :15:54.mother in pregnancy and I would like to think that the law would
:15:55. > :16:01.continue. You want to see women facing life imprisonment? If you
:16:02. > :16:05.repeal the 1861 act what you do is you take all protection from the
:16:06. > :16:11.pregnant mother. In Canada there is no abortion law or criminal law and
:16:12. > :16:14.there was no more abortion than there is here and there is no
:16:15. > :16:18.greater abortion rate than there is here and no later abortions than
:16:19. > :16:23.here, it is part of something between a woman and her doctor. The
:16:24. > :16:27.DUP and the SDLP have blocked a change in the law and they have done
:16:28. > :16:29.that so therefore you should be respecting those very significant
:16:30. > :16:35.mandates which actually would suggest that what Bernie is saying
:16:36. > :16:38.at least has a populist vote. The answer to that is to have a
:16:39. > :16:44.referendum and see what the people in a saying. You should lobby for
:16:45. > :16:52.that then because at the end of the day of referendum would only come
:16:53. > :16:55.about through an agreement at Stormont House I support the fact
:16:56. > :16:59.that any democratic process, I think it is important that we elect
:17:00. > :17:05.politicians who protect all of the people in Northern Ireland, born and
:17:06. > :17:09.unborn. I support the democratic process and I think the democratic
:17:10. > :17:13.process has spoken today at the Assembly when the majority of the
:17:14. > :17:18.politicians will protect the rights of the unborn child. Would you
:17:19. > :17:21.support a referendum? I would have to communicate with our politicians
:17:22. > :17:28.as to whether I would support a referendum. With the right question
:17:29. > :17:40.put forward. I need you to put your hand up. Go ahead. Just back to your
:17:41. > :17:48.earlier point. How old are you? 19. My goodness, you look younger. Back
:17:49. > :17:52.to the early point about a family member who falls victim to an
:17:53. > :18:00.unplanned pregnancy and then may die as a result of it, will you deny the
:18:01. > :18:05.right of life to that woman? APPLAUSE
:18:06. > :18:09.I think I should answer that question. I am not a doctor but it
:18:10. > :18:14.is very clear that a woman in Northern Ireland is not dying
:18:15. > :18:19.because they cannot access abortion. All medical treatment is available
:18:20. > :18:23.to women in Northern Ireland. The law currently actually permits an
:18:24. > :18:27.abortion in Northern Ireland if the woman's life is at risk, do you
:18:28. > :18:31.support that law? The law in Northern Ireland fully protects the
:18:32. > :18:35.unborn child and would protect medical treatment to be provided to
:18:36. > :18:39.any woman with a life limiting condition in pregnancy but we do not
:18:40. > :18:43.have cases where women are dying in Northern Ireland or the Republic of
:18:44. > :18:49.Ireland, so clearly we are looking at... A lot of women would love to
:18:50. > :18:52.have a baby and I think it is really important to protect life and show
:18:53. > :18:56.respect for unborn babies. If the woman does not want to take care of
:18:57. > :19:07.the baby she can give him or her up for adoption. Marion Woods, what is
:19:08. > :19:14.your view on this? In relation to the points you made, I would like to
:19:15. > :19:18.pick up on that and say that I hoping through the DUP working party
:19:19. > :19:22.that what they are going to do is develop hospice care and I would
:19:23. > :19:27.appeal to the MLAs today to put their weight behind and go forward
:19:28. > :19:33.with that in mind and bring in that care for women. I think we haven't
:19:34. > :19:37.actually seen the draft guidelines. We haven't actually had the
:19:38. > :19:41.appropriate care for women in Northern Ireland, so therefore
:19:42. > :19:46.bringing in this rush to the gestation and the amendments is
:19:47. > :19:50.inappropriate. Has the vote actually concluded yet up in the Assembly?
:19:51. > :19:57.Tell me in the gallery, have we any smoke? There is no word yet. There
:19:58. > :20:03.is no word yet. We will tell you if it happens during the programme
:20:04. > :20:07.tonight. I have six beautiful children. I would never dream of
:20:08. > :20:12.having an abortion, that is a very personal thing. I would never, ever
:20:13. > :20:16.push my opinion another woman because you do not know that woman's
:20:17. > :20:20.circum- stances and I agree with Stephen, I just wish you would
:20:21. > :20:30.answer the question instead of just skirting around it. Just answer it.
:20:31. > :20:34.APPLAUSE Which questioned?
:20:35. > :20:48.About should a woman be criminalised if she goes to England. I don't...
:20:49. > :20:51.She doesn't, do you? Sorry? I think the law here is very clear, it
:20:52. > :20:58.protect someone children and their mothers. I am just intrigued as to
:20:59. > :21:03.why you cannot answer that question. Stephen, does everybody had to
:21:04. > :21:09.answer every question that you put to them, or be forced bullied or
:21:10. > :21:14.harassed? I can answer any question I choose to answer. You are accusing
:21:15. > :21:19.me of bullying and harassment by asking a question? Because I am
:21:20. > :21:24.unwilling to answer the question as you would like me to answer the
:21:25. > :21:28.question you are pushing me. You know your hardline views are not
:21:29. > :21:32.shared by the majority of people in the north. It is very clear I am
:21:33. > :21:37.supported by the majority of people in Northern Ireland. Most people
:21:38. > :21:43.across the whole of Northern Ireland actually think that they trust
:21:44. > :21:47.women. You do not know that either! Now you are saying the majority of
:21:48. > :21:52.people support your view! Clearly there is a split in this, clearly
:21:53. > :21:57.there is. Yes, there is, but the split is actually and you know from
:21:58. > :22:01.your own opinion poll, 20% of people only think abortion should never be
:22:02. > :22:05.available, Bernadette's position, when we go on the streets and asked
:22:06. > :22:08.people if we know that women are criminalised if the country if they
:22:09. > :22:14.have an abortion and they are horrified and almost nobody says it
:22:15. > :22:17.is right. I beg to differ completely. They are actually just
:22:18. > :22:22.going for the vote in Assembly now so as soon as there is a result we
:22:23. > :22:27.will bring it to you during the course of this programme tonight.
:22:28. > :22:34.Chloe Henderson, medical students for choice, you have heard us
:22:35. > :22:38.discuss it tonight, in the case where there is a fatal fatal
:22:39. > :22:42.abnormality, rape, incest, you know the cases we are speaking about,
:22:43. > :22:50.should a woman be able to have an abortion in Northern Ireland? 1.I
:22:51. > :22:53.really wanted to raise was how the law in Northern Ireland benefits
:22:54. > :23:00.both the mother and foetus, but really across the world clearly show
:23:01. > :23:05.that when you restrict abortion it puts the mother at massive risk. It
:23:06. > :23:10.is much more dangerous and it is one of the leading causes of maternal
:23:11. > :23:14.death in the world. How come Ireland has the lowest maternal death rate
:23:15. > :23:17.in the whole world? The health organisation recognises that Ireland
:23:18. > :23:21.is the safest place in the world from other to be pregnant because
:23:22. > :23:25.they treat both mother and baby, and that is the most important thing?
:23:26. > :23:29.People can Google this themselves and check it out by the way this
:23:30. > :23:34.statistics used to be collected in the south of Ireland didn't cover
:23:35. > :23:39.the whole, you know it better, the neonatal period, but since they have
:23:40. > :23:45.changed the way the statistics are collected we have exactly the same
:23:46. > :23:51.rates in Ireland as in Britain. My view is that I am not much of a
:23:52. > :23:57.pro-choice or pro-life but what about the children that have
:23:58. > :24:04.survived an abortion. I recently researched that and I was curious
:24:05. > :24:09.about if there were survivals from abortion and I read in America that
:24:10. > :24:14.there are some and America is a developed country. That is life and
:24:15. > :24:19.that is life protected. That is because a woman doesn't have an
:24:20. > :24:23.abortion. First of all, there is actually an awful lot of children in
:24:24. > :24:27.this society whose lives are not protected. When you look at the cuts
:24:28. > :24:30.that we have seen the cuts to children's services and you talk
:24:31. > :24:33.about disabled children and Bernadette talks about disabled
:24:34. > :24:38.children, the children's hospice that looks after 600 people with
:24:39. > :24:42.life limiting conditions in Ireland, the children's Hospice aster
:24:43. > :24:52.fundraiser and have charity shops to raise money for it. Those children
:24:53. > :24:54.who are already here and severely disabled and their lives are limited
:24:55. > :24:57.and we are not looking after them and that is just the disabled
:24:58. > :25:02.children. Let's look after all the children! That is a fair point. What
:25:03. > :25:09.about the Child poverty? S campaign about that as well! We are running
:25:10. > :25:17.out of time. We actually help children and their families even
:25:18. > :25:22.after the children are Bordon. At the back. Go ahead. It is really
:25:23. > :25:25.frustrating me that every single question Bernadette has been asked
:25:26. > :25:29.this evening she has just pussyfooting around it. Her own
:25:30. > :25:34.views, nothing is her view that she has given this evening, it is all
:25:35. > :25:43.what she thinks the public are talking about. To be fair, she has
:25:44. > :25:47.come into the studio. She has, but she is not actually answering any
:25:48. > :25:51.questions. I have made it very clear that I believe women and unborn
:25:52. > :25:55.children should be protected in law and policy and practice. I think
:25:56. > :26:02.that is very clear. Why hasn't she answered that you want her to? I do
:26:03. > :26:05.not think abortion is right in any circumstances, it is the innocent
:26:06. > :26:09.destruction of an unborn child and I think society should be providing
:26:10. > :26:13.care. Any legislation questions you have been asked this evening you
:26:14. > :26:18.have not given a definite answer in your opinion. I have made it very
:26:19. > :26:22.clear that I think store Montes the democratic process. Again you are
:26:23. > :26:29.not answering question, you are saying I believe, believe but... I
:26:30. > :26:36.am answering your question. Hold on, hold on, I have a question for you.
:26:37. > :26:41.Do you think women who travel to England for an abortion should be
:26:42. > :26:48.criminalised? APPLAUSE
:26:49. > :26:53.I think, Stephen, we are dealing with a very serious issue here,
:26:54. > :26:57.which is life and death. I think every unborn child should be
:26:58. > :27:03.protected and I think that Northern Ireland's law protects both mother
:27:04. > :27:09.and child. Front row, go ahead. We have one minute left. I do not
:27:10. > :27:17.believe that anybody has the right to take anyone's life, should it be
:27:18. > :27:22.an unborn baby or not. At the end of the day you were saying they're
:27:23. > :27:28.about children with disabilities, so do you believe that if a child is
:27:29. > :27:34.seen to have had a disability in the foetus, that it should be aborted. I
:27:35. > :27:38.think it should be up to the woman that is pregnant and she knows her
:27:39. > :27:42.own family, she may already have disabled children she is the only
:27:43. > :27:45.one that should decide. So, in answering that lady's question, what
:27:46. > :27:52.you are saying is that if there is a minor disability and the mother
:27:53. > :27:55.still feels she wants an abortion that you believe in the right for
:27:56. > :28:00.that mother to have an abortion. I think that only the woman herself
:28:01. > :28:04.knows what her own circumstances and her own family and her own
:28:05. > :28:08.conscious. You do not actually know. You take something that you say is a
:28:09. > :28:12.minor disability... What about the children who are born, which you
:28:13. > :28:20.apply that same mentality? It is the same child. It is about a woman
:28:21. > :28:27.having autonomy over her own body. What changes it? If I have a baby I
:28:28. > :28:34.can give it to you and you can look after it but only the woman does the
:28:35. > :28:38.work. I know myself of a woman who was told the child would be deformed
:28:39. > :28:43.at the child was born perfectly well and the child is now 11 years of age
:28:44. > :28:49.and living a perfect life and his mother was advised to abort and, I
:28:50. > :28:55.mean, the end of the day, I think every child needs that bit of a
:28:56. > :28:59.chance. I totally support your right to hold those views and to live your
:29:00. > :29:04.life according to those views and your conscious, just like I support
:29:05. > :29:08.fully Bernadette's right to support those views and live her life but I
:29:09. > :29:10.do not want those views are imposed on the and the other women in
:29:11. > :29:14.Northern Ireland who hold different views and that is the difference
:29:15. > :29:27.between us. We have to leave it there. Thank you for coming in.
:29:28. > :29:34.The vote happening as we speak in Stormont so we will bring you the
:29:35. > :29:41.result as soon as we can. We have the radio show from nine until
:29:42. > :29:48.10:30pm. We can continue all of these discussions on the radio, on
:29:49. > :29:54.my Twitter feed as well. We will continue talking after the show
:29:55. > :29:58.about that as well. And one other issue, because I know lots of you
:29:59. > :30:04.are tweeting me, how do you get tickets for the television show?
:30:05. > :30:08.Dead easy. If you go to the website, you will find a link there and that
:30:09. > :30:13.is how you can get down into the audience. It's always great to see
:30:14. > :30:18.you. We have a bit of fun coming up later on in the show. We are asking
:30:19. > :30:27.if it's OK to wear pyjamas to the shops or underscore run. Lovely!
:30:28. > :30:37.Lovely lady and more pyjamas there. What's wrong with it? We will ask
:30:38. > :30:42.you as you are watching Nolan Live to take a selfie of you in your
:30:43. > :30:45.pyjamas, send them into us. If you sent them into us, that's you giving
:30:46. > :30:50.us permission to show them before the end of the programme tonight. I
:30:51. > :30:56.have no idea if any of will send me any but we will soon find out. I
:30:57. > :31:01.also don't understand this, apparently you don't send into a
:31:02. > :31:07.particular Twitter address, you just put in a hashtag, there it is on the
:31:08. > :31:14.screen. Take a picture of you in your pyjamas and we will see if we
:31:15. > :31:21.can get the pictures on before the end of the programme. A minister
:31:22. > :31:27.thinks there should be licences for bonfires. Republicans would have to
:31:28. > :31:43.apply to their local councils for a licence. Jimmy Bryson, look at this
:31:44. > :31:48.on our screens right now. With the local community be able to control
:31:49. > :31:53.something like that? Would they say, we don't like the height of that,
:31:54. > :31:58.could you take that down? All sorts of engagements should be community
:31:59. > :32:07.led instead of by statutory organisations. You continually
:32:08. > :32:10.demonise young people and one culture and there is no surprise
:32:11. > :32:18.that people are entrenched in a situation and take the view that
:32:19. > :32:24.they are being persecuted. So you are against licensing? It won't
:32:25. > :32:31.work. It's an election stunt by the SDLP. Why wouldn't it work? We need
:32:32. > :32:38.a licence to drive a car, watch TV. They want to follow the same
:32:39. > :32:41.process. They want to create a system and bring into legislation to
:32:42. > :32:45.give them at a block. That means, to have a bonfire, you would have to
:32:46. > :32:50.apply, you would have to get permission. You would have to get
:32:51. > :32:55.permission from a statutory body and if you don't pass those two hurdles
:32:56. > :32:58.and young people still decide to do that, they will be criminalised.
:32:59. > :33:04.What benefit does that have to anybody? Whenever young people are
:33:05. > :33:10.being criminalised and they feel they are being persecuted. There
:33:11. > :33:13.will be criminalised if they buy by the North. What's wrong with this
:33:14. > :33:22.notion if the law is passed you stick to it? They are criminalising
:33:23. > :33:29.themselves! The proposal is a very ambiguous. .12, for example, in the
:33:30. > :33:33.document, it makes reference to the fact it would have to include in
:33:34. > :33:41.legislation a reference to a possible incitement to hatred. How
:33:42. > :33:48.ambiguous as that. What does that actually mean? Have you got a
:33:49. > :33:52.garden? Can I go into your front garden... I can think of a few
:33:53. > :34:05.things I can build in your front garden. I don't know. Can I build
:34:06. > :34:08.whenever I want? There is a Stephen Nolan statue in your front garden.
:34:09. > :34:14.You're trivialising the issue Stephen. Let's make a distinction
:34:15. > :34:23.between traditional bonfires that have been there for a long time and
:34:24. > :34:27.proper bonfires. I will drop you one second because Mark Davenport has
:34:28. > :34:33.the result of the voters Stormont. Our political editor can join us
:34:34. > :34:37.now. What's the result on abortion law? Stephen, the voters just come
:34:38. > :34:42.through on the crucial amendment, Amendment 61, which would have
:34:43. > :34:48.allowed for terminations in the case of fatal fatal abnormalities. There
:34:49. > :34:54.are though it has been lost. 59 MLAs voted to reject and 40 to support
:34:55. > :35:00.the move, two abstained, so no tradition of concern, they did not
:35:01. > :35:06.need to vote, there was a majority against this vote. We know the DUP
:35:07. > :35:11.in the SDLP were voting against the proposal. The Alliance and MLA's
:35:12. > :35:26.like Sinn Fein were backing it. Was that as close as expected? 59-40.
:35:27. > :35:30.There was talk that the DUP might put down a petition of concern. They
:35:31. > :35:36.have done their homework in terms of the figures because with the support
:35:37. > :35:39.of the SDLP and Ulster Unionists, they have beaten this proposal back
:35:40. > :35:45.convincingly at this stage. They say they will now look at the issue with
:35:46. > :35:47.this working group on the particular issue of fatal fatal abnormality
:35:48. > :35:54.which will report back over the next six months so they want some people
:35:55. > :35:57.over with that argument even though proponents of a change for saying
:35:58. > :36:02.they felt that was a device to get them past the Assembly elections.
:36:03. > :36:12.Thank you very much indeed. That's interesting. One second. This
:36:13. > :36:19.community action there is to take down a bonfire, if there is a
:36:20. > :36:25.bonfire built so high it will possibly endanger someone's house,
:36:26. > :36:29.that will pollute the community around them, who decides to take it
:36:30. > :36:36.down? You are coming to the notion of saying that young people wake up
:36:37. > :36:42.one day decide, I will build a bonfire. Let me finish, Stephen. I
:36:43. > :36:51.will build a bonfire that will set fire to your fellow Unionist house.
:36:52. > :36:56.What I'm about to show you screen here is me making up! I was actually
:36:57. > :37:08.going to you. I never said it doesn't happen. Are you watching
:37:09. > :37:14.these? Who takes Guzan? -- these down. Nobody steps up to say, we
:37:15. > :37:18.will do things that are negative to a community. What happens is a
:37:19. > :37:23.number of young people get together. People like yours show another shows
:37:24. > :37:26.and the media demonise young people and little persecuted so they become
:37:27. > :37:32.entrenched in a position and any sort of community action to make
:37:33. > :37:36.changes to the bonfire can happen. Licensing is not an attack on
:37:37. > :37:39.bonfires, it's an opportunity to make them better for everybody in
:37:40. > :37:45.Northern Ireland but most importantly for the people enjoy
:37:46. > :37:49.them because bonfires are a big part of Unionist culture. But there is a
:37:50. > :37:58.flip side to that coin and that is that it is a big issue Unionist
:37:59. > :38:01.leadership. If someone breaks the license, who will seriously boring
:38:02. > :38:06.and remove it? Are you saying we won't live in a society with the
:38:07. > :38:14.rule of law? Nobody takes flags down on a lamp post. The reason this is
:38:15. > :38:18.an issue for political unionism and leadership is because the primary
:38:19. > :38:24.victims of this working-class Unionists. They would have to suffer
:38:25. > :38:31.this in their community. It's unenforceable! Would you go in and
:38:32. > :38:37.take a bonfire down? I wouldn't. Would it be good enough for Arlene
:38:38. > :38:45.Foster to live in those scenes we just saw so why is it good enough? I
:38:46. > :38:50.have to object to that point. That comment about Arlene Foster and Mike
:38:51. > :38:58.Nesbitt, to say we have a higher class of unionism, I have to object
:38:59. > :39:04.to that and say absolutely, that's not positive at all. I kind of agree
:39:05. > :39:08.with you there. The present situation creates an underclass
:39:09. > :39:13.because it tells these people, this is your lot, you do with it. It's
:39:14. > :39:19.the same with working-class boys underachieving in education. Why
:39:20. > :39:24.should their horizons be limited to sitting in a garden, making
:39:25. > :39:28.bonfires? What gives somebody like yourself to say, you have to do
:39:29. > :39:35.better than building bonfires? Maybe those young people want to come
:39:36. > :39:38.together and build a bonfire. Obviously, we want to... Stephen,
:39:39. > :39:46.what is there to fear from a license? Look at the commission.
:39:47. > :39:52.That's completely different. Referring back to the will enforce
:39:53. > :39:56.it, there is already a big stretch on public services, cutbacks, who
:39:57. > :40:04.will enforce it? Will be the police, some low-paid council worker? Do you
:40:05. > :40:09.think it's impossible? Know. But we should not come at it from that
:40:10. > :40:14.question. There is a bigger question and it's about the deficit of
:40:15. > :40:18.Unionist leadership. Why is Arlene Foster and Mike Nesbitt not taking a
:40:19. > :40:28.lead on this? By other saying, this is your lot? They are not. If the
:40:29. > :40:32.bonfires are not regulated, they are illegal. It's already stated they
:40:33. > :40:37.have an impact on their communities, where they are built, the size of
:40:38. > :40:44.them, the potential criminal damage to property and homes in and around
:40:45. > :40:46.them. There is a lot of alcohol-related injuries around
:40:47. > :40:56.bonfires. There is no reason why they should not be regulated. They
:40:57. > :40:59.should be built with community consent and should not be decided in
:41:00. > :41:04.interfaces where they will cause greater damage. Because we got the
:41:05. > :41:08.result of the vote, we are running out of time. We will continue
:41:09. > :41:12.talking about this on Twitter and Facebook. But in the meantime, give
:41:13. > :41:22.our guests around applause. Thank you very much. Lots to get through
:41:23. > :41:28.tonight. We live on BBC One tonight. Valentine's Day this weekend. We
:41:29. > :41:35.like to the love. -- spread the love. Remember this from nearly ten
:41:36. > :41:38.years ago? I never want to be without you in my life. The question
:41:39. > :42:01.is... Will you marry me? So, that was nearly ten years ago.
:42:02. > :42:06.They did have their special day. They got married. There they are,
:42:07. > :42:13.look, and they had two lovely kids. There are the lovely kids as well.
:42:14. > :42:19.Anna and Emily. Cheryl and Robert, hello. All these years later and
:42:20. > :42:24.you're still married! Just about. What is the marriage be like? It
:42:25. > :42:31.doesn't feel that long ago. It seems like yesterday. Ups and downs! Like
:42:32. > :42:38.every marriage. I am just glad she said yes! We thought we would mark
:42:39. > :42:42.the occasion and what we have done is we brought a band into the studio
:42:43. > :42:46.especially for you two. We will all enjoy this band because they are
:42:47. > :43:17.fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jack Pack!
:43:18. > :43:40.Sunday when I'm awfully low just the way you look tonight.
:43:41. > :43:49.Oh, but your lovely. With your smile is so warm.
:43:50. > :43:52.And your cheeks so soft. There is nothing for me but to love
:43:53. > :44:05.you. Just the way you look tonight.
:44:06. > :44:17.With each word your tender nice grows.
:44:18. > :44:26.Tearing my fears apart. And that laugh that wrinkles your
:44:27. > :44:38.nose. Touchers my foolish heart.
:44:39. > :44:45.Your lovely. Don't you ever change. Keep that breathless charm.
:44:46. > :44:48.Won't you please arrange it cause I love you.
:44:49. > :45:13.Just the way you look tonight. And that laugh that wrinkles your
:45:14. > :45:33.nose. Touches my foolish heart. Lovely.
:45:34. > :45:40.Don't you ever change. Keep that breathless charm.
:45:41. > :45:49.Won't you please arrange it. Cause I love you. Just the way you
:45:50. > :45:56.look tonight. Just the way you look tonight.
:45:57. > :46:30.Just the way you look tonight. Well, our next item tonight is a
:46:31. > :46:34.fashion item, and ladies and gentlemen, who else better than me
:46:35. > :46:40.for fashion? Word has gone about that there is
:46:41. > :46:48.people going about in pyjamas and going to school and letting kids off
:46:49. > :46:55.in pyjamas and people wearing onesies. Who in their right mind,
:46:56. > :47:01.ladies and gentlemen, would be seen dead in public in a onsie. Can you
:47:02. > :47:16.tell me? I do not know of anybody who would be...
:47:17. > :47:19.APPLAUSE There has been...
:47:20. > :47:24.Where are you going? Hold on! Wait till you hear this. There has been a
:47:25. > :47:27.live television moment. I am serious and we have not rehearsed there is
:47:28. > :47:35.so because I didn't rehearse putting the pyjamas on the live television
:47:36. > :47:48.moment, because I have no choice but to tell you, because you're going to
:47:49. > :47:55.see it. The zip is bust. Ladies and gentlemen, a monument to
:47:56. > :48:02.self-neglect. If you want to know what a salad dodger looks like,
:48:03. > :48:10.that's a salad dodger. The only good things is in means the shipyard will
:48:11. > :48:18.be making more stuff, his onesies. There should be a better zip on it
:48:19. > :48:33.than that. They haven't seen my nipples yet! Welcome! Good to see
:48:34. > :48:38.you. Carole Malone, is there anything wrong with people wearing
:48:39. > :48:42.pyjamas in public? There's definitely something wrong with you
:48:43. > :48:48.wearing them. They could've got a size bigger! I got a tweet from Ian
:48:49. > :48:53.Paisley tonight who asked me how your diet is going. That is just
:48:54. > :49:02.because he has lost a lot of weight, hasn't it? But this is a serious
:49:03. > :49:06.issue. Some women are being told is that for parents who are picking
:49:07. > :49:10.their kids up outside school and they are in their pyjamas, it sets a
:49:11. > :49:15.bad example. Should they wash and dress before they go to school. You
:49:16. > :49:18.know some parents go to Tesco or Sainsbury's and these supermarkets
:49:19. > :49:22.in the middle of the night in their pyjamas as well. We have been out on
:49:23. > :49:26.the streets and checking out what you think. Would you wear something
:49:27. > :49:32.like this outside the house? May be in a different colour. I think if I
:49:33. > :49:37.can make the effort to get changed, everyone else should. Why would you
:49:38. > :49:43.want to either, it is gross. It is not ready for me, I wear underwear
:49:44. > :49:46.but I do not wear any pyjamas. Have you heard of the trend where people
:49:47. > :49:51.go out of their house in their pyjamas and maybe to the shops. It
:49:52. > :49:56.is more for if they are just going out quickly but I don't really like
:49:57. > :50:02.it at all. You wouldn't do it yourself? I have done it, but not
:50:03. > :50:06.too often. Why would you not wear that outside the house? It is
:50:07. > :50:17.lovely. It is for bed when I am comfortable. It is trampy. That is
:50:18. > :50:21.extreme! But it is. It is clearly an classy and you have other clothes so
:50:22. > :50:25.wear them. I have gone to the shop once or twice. It is the guilty
:50:26. > :50:28.admission. You know, first thing in the morning before the kids get
:50:29. > :50:33.their breakfast and you are straight in and straightout but there will be
:50:34. > :50:39.a big heavy coat over and you might see one foot of pyjama bottoms under
:50:40. > :50:48.the coat. Have you just nipped to the shops? Yes! Are you embarrassed?
:50:49. > :50:53.Yes! What kind of pyjamas do you wear? That is a personal question!
:50:54. > :51:04.Would you wear your pyjamas outside the house? No, go to school. Right,
:51:05. > :51:09.do you judge these women who go about in their pyjamas in public?
:51:10. > :51:13.No, I think it is absolutely normal now because busy mums do not have
:51:14. > :51:16.time to become pristine little princesses before they get up in the
:51:17. > :51:23.morning and they do not have time to put on a full face of make up. If
:51:24. > :51:30.you don't have enough time to put your clothes on and your make-up on
:51:31. > :51:33.they get up earlier and you will do. But you have to feed and dress your
:51:34. > :51:37.kids and it is putting pressure on them to look a certain way. I
:51:38. > :51:41.actually think, if you are pregnant and you are having a baby, would you
:51:42. > :51:50.want your kids to be taught by a teacher who turned up in school in
:51:51. > :52:03.her pyjamas? You are pregnant? You haven't told everyone! No! Oh, God!
:52:04. > :52:12.A lot of people know now. Congratulations. Would you want your
:52:13. > :52:18.children taught by a teacher who has turned up in bed head hair because
:52:19. > :52:22.that shows a lack of respect. One girl on the film there said it was
:52:23. > :52:25.really an classy and that is true. What if your kids said they would
:52:26. > :52:31.not put their school uniform on and they would go in their pyjamas? But
:52:32. > :52:35.we want our kids plastered in make up our materialistic and getting up
:52:36. > :52:39.half an hour early? To we won the wearing Gucci and Prada? You want
:52:40. > :52:42.them to have standards because if the parents are saying to the
:52:43. > :52:47.teacher then we will not do what you have asked us to do then would you
:52:48. > :52:53.want the kids to do that? If the mums put it coat over their pyjamas?
:52:54. > :53:00.They are going into parent teacher meetings and school assemblies. I
:53:01. > :53:05.have had a thought and it was what would our new First Minister, what
:53:06. > :53:16.would Arlene Foster look like in her pyjamas? -- ears in her onsie. Then
:53:17. > :53:24.I thought ship bound myself what about the taiga of Stormont House --
:53:25. > :53:33.the Tiger of Stormont House and then I thought, what about them together?
:53:34. > :53:40.Arlene Foster is not too happy about Marty! They look better than I do in
:53:41. > :53:49.my pyjamas. The guy here in the glasses. What parents where to take
:53:50. > :53:53.their children to school doesn't affect their education. You say that
:53:54. > :54:00.but education is not just about learning the 3Rs, it is about how
:54:01. > :54:03.you conduct yourself and having self-confidence and presenting
:54:04. > :54:08.yourself to the world and if kids see their mums not looking half
:54:09. > :54:14.decent then they will look the same. A gentle man in the front row here
:54:15. > :54:23.wants to speak. Do you want to speak on the subject or am I just turning
:54:24. > :54:30.you on in my pyjamas? What is it? I think you can go anywhere and
:54:31. > :54:36.pyjamas. He hasn't slept another ten hours and is not all sweaty. Nobody
:54:37. > :54:46.has a right to tell you what you can and cannot wear. If I want to go
:54:47. > :54:50.swimming in pyjamas, I will. They are calling these ladies slummy
:54:51. > :54:59.mummy 's but we do not say dowdy dads. The dads are going around with
:55:00. > :55:06.their bellies hanging out and with no self-respect. That is a whole
:55:07. > :55:17.different show! These people with their bellies hanging out! It is
:55:18. > :55:27.disgraceful! Ann-Marie. Give us a wave. I will cover my breasts before
:55:28. > :55:38.I speak any further. You were on television sitting on your sofa in
:55:39. > :55:43.your pyjamas. This is Minnie mouse. Do people judge you for your
:55:44. > :55:45.address? You get up in the morning and you change your pyjamas if
:55:46. > :55:52.you're going to run about all day, you do not wear the entrapping
:55:53. > :56:01.sleeping in. She changes into different pyjamas for day and night.
:56:02. > :56:04.What do you think? I don't want to be too judgmental but the average
:56:05. > :56:08.human sweat is about half a pint of sweat every nights with you are not
:56:09. > :56:14.changing your pyjamas in the morning it is unhygienic but that said, I am
:56:15. > :56:17.a busy mum and I was on the show seven years talking about the same
:56:18. > :56:24.thing and since then I have got busier and more time and I have to
:56:25. > :56:29.prioritise my daughter's readiness before my own so some days I go to
:56:30. > :56:34.chop her off and I am in my gym gear but I would not go in my pyjamas and
:56:35. > :56:38.it is just me. I don't like it but I actually do I have change my opinion
:56:39. > :56:41.and I can kind of understand why women do it. There have been some
:56:42. > :56:46.were people watching tonight who have sent me their pictures. This
:56:47. > :56:47.could end in disaster. Let us look at some of these viewers watching in
:56:48. > :57:08.their pyjamas. He has his football kit on. It is
:57:09. > :57:12.interesting how we judge people on their dress. We do and I do not say
:57:13. > :57:17.it is a good thing but it does happen. If someone is, some of these
:57:18. > :57:21.ladies in Darlington were keeping the pyjamas on all day and going to
:57:22. > :57:26.collect the kids in their pyjamas at 3pm which means however many hours
:57:27. > :57:31.of sweat they had in the night they had a whole day. Some of them went
:57:32. > :57:37.to parents evening! Exactly. The kids need an example that is not a
:57:38. > :57:40.good one. I think we live in a world of convenience right now and people
:57:41. > :57:46.just casually go to the shop dressed in whatever they can and if it is at
:57:47. > :57:58.1am, that is great because they are already in their pyjamas and they
:57:59. > :58:04.should get changed. What about the fact that we do not call celebrities
:58:05. > :58:12.slobs if they wear their PJs? I would like to see what I will be
:58:13. > :58:18.called on Twitter tonight! Selena Gomez went round Paris in her PJs.
:58:19. > :58:22.We will have to talk about this on Facebook and Twitter because we are
:58:23. > :58:26.out of time. That is the hour gone. Thank you all for coming into the
:58:27. > :58:29.studio tonight and thank you for watching us on BBC One and we're
:58:30. > :58:33.back for another series and we will be back next Wednesday and I will
:58:34. > :58:41.see you tomorrow morning at 9am. Good night and thank you.