:00:00. > :00:00.Over 1000 jobs axed at Bombardier, one of our biggest employers.
:00:00. > :00:12.We'll also have live music from Newton Faulkner.
:00:13. > :00:50.And prepare to be freaked out by this guy.
:00:51. > :00:59.Northern Ireland was hit by a job cuts bombshell today.
:01:00. > :01:01.Over 1000 jobs are being slashed at Bombardier.
:01:02. > :01:03.Calls are being made for urgent Stormont action.
:01:04. > :01:06.DUP Economy Minister Jonathan Bell is getting flak.
:01:07. > :01:20.That's what we're asking for tonight. Adrian Cochrane-Watson, due
:01:21. > :01:29.at early this morning because you are asking for the minister to
:01:30. > :01:35.resign. On Monday after the fiasco of the renewable heat incentives at
:01:36. > :01:42.Stormont and mess which the minister made of renewables, we asked him to
:01:43. > :01:50.consider his position. As we saw today, did disappointing news, over
:01:51. > :01:54.1000 people to lose their jobs. Real jobs being lost and you work
:01:55. > :02:03.political point scoring within seconds, cheap politics while blues
:02:04. > :02:06.-- people are losing jobs. We brought the concerns of the
:02:07. > :02:12.manufacturing sector to the house in November. I raised those to the
:02:13. > :02:17.Minister and he said I was ignorant of manufacturing in Northern
:02:18. > :02:22.Ireland. This was in response to 1000 jobs being lost at Mechelen,
:02:23. > :02:28.within 24 hours of his response, Caterpillar paid off... This is a
:02:29. > :02:35.major corporation, a worldwide brand. Do you think they were
:02:36. > :02:42.saying, wait, we cannot get rid of these jobs until we take a call from
:02:43. > :02:48.Jonathan Bell? Cheap point-scoring about a real situation. My party has
:02:49. > :02:54.raised manufacturing to the focus of the Minister. He has chosen to
:02:55. > :02:59.ignore that, he has chosen spin, sound bites, jetting around the
:03:00. > :03:08.world and ignoring the crisis in Northern Ireland. If we set aside
:03:09. > :03:11.Jonathan Bell, a black day for East Belfast, a terrible day for the
:03:12. > :03:18.region, our politicians doing enough? No? We need to get our act
:03:19. > :03:25.together and there were things that need to be done immediately to help
:03:26. > :03:30.people get other jobs. Why are you getting together now, you have been
:03:31. > :03:35.in power for years. For people who have lost their jobs it is a little
:03:36. > :03:40.late to release a statement saying more needs to be done. You have had
:03:41. > :03:46.the chance to do more. There are reasons behind the Bombardier
:03:47. > :03:54.bombshell, to do with the C Series, money which was put at risk and
:03:55. > :03:57.gambles were taken, so we cannot be responsible for the global downturn
:03:58. > :04:03.in aircraft sales but we can try to scale up our people. We are making
:04:04. > :04:10.improvements and we have to support manufacturing. Quebec invested $1
:04:11. > :04:16.billion in Bombardier, so they have doubled down. We have spent ?70
:04:17. > :04:23.million in the last few years. Was that a waste of money? There are
:04:24. > :04:29.still 4000 people there, there are still 2000 of the world's highest
:04:30. > :04:37.trained aeronautical engineers. What is your response to the UUP calling
:04:38. > :04:43.for your Minister to resign? This is a devastating day, I am not your
:04:44. > :04:49.four ping-pong politics or for sad sound bites. There are 580
:04:50. > :04:55.individuals and their families in the audience or at home wanting to
:04:56. > :05:00.hear from politicians, what is the answer, where is the hope? When
:05:01. > :05:06.there were job announcements you are quick to take credit and to say this
:05:07. > :05:10.is what Stormont is doing, so when there were losses will you take
:05:11. > :05:19.responsibility? You asked that question as if Northern Ireland is
:05:20. > :05:22.treated in isolation, today's loss was for thousands of people
:05:23. > :05:27.internationally. This does not just affect wealth that, it affects
:05:28. > :05:37.Derby, Germany, Ontario and Montreal. It is a global decision, a
:05:38. > :05:42.crisis within aviation and for anybody to give hope to those
:05:43. > :05:46.individuals by suggesting that the second of should have done more to
:05:47. > :05:52.turn around the global aviation industry... Two weeks ago Jonathan
:05:53. > :05:59.Bell said there were no jobs at risk in Bombardier, how did that happen?
:06:00. > :06:06.How could it happen in Michigan when we lost 900 jobs, and it is been
:06:07. > :06:12.happening for the past 15 years in my city in Derry, we have lost
:06:13. > :06:19.thousands of jobs in manufacturing and there has been no effort I'd be
:06:20. > :06:25.executive to address those concerns. You are part of the Executive, so
:06:26. > :06:31.you are criticising yourself. You are part of the Executive.
:06:32. > :06:38.Criticising parties who did not seem to grasp we have 38% of students
:06:39. > :06:47.leaving our shores each year to go to other places. Could the Executive
:06:48. > :06:53.have done more or not? We have been saying for a long time we need a
:06:54. > :06:59.manufacturing... Bombardier say there is nothing more that the
:07:00. > :07:06.indicative could have done. What did Jonathan Belsay? I want into
:07:07. > :07:15.Jonathan Dell the week before last going to Montreal again because he
:07:16. > :07:22.is interested in securing jobs. He said he had nothing to indicate more
:07:23. > :07:28.job losses. He told us the question had not been devised for the
:07:29. > :07:35.European referendum. This isn't about politics, about offering
:07:36. > :07:45.people hope. This is about people who lost their jobs... Hold on. It
:07:46. > :07:49.is not fair for people who want to hear aspiration, who want to hear
:07:50. > :07:55.what you guys in the Assembly will do to give opportunities. When
:07:56. > :08:01.Adrian was writing political point scoring press statements, I was
:08:02. > :08:04.talking to them is nice minister in Westminster, who will come to
:08:05. > :08:09.Bombardier in two weeks to get the high end the C Series, to meet sure
:08:10. > :08:18.what we have we can consolidate and grow. Young man in the glasses. I am
:08:19. > :08:25.a local student and I hear chatter about people leaving Belfast to work
:08:26. > :08:31.elsewhere. This is relevant in my case because I am going to Dublin to
:08:32. > :08:36.work. Why? There are more opportunities. It is not that I have
:08:37. > :08:41.not applied to Belfast because I would love to work here. What is
:08:42. > :08:48.your skill? I am studying business studies. There are more
:08:49. > :08:53.opportunities because I am a graduate who was applying at the
:08:54. > :08:57.moment, and one thing politicians could think about is going to London
:08:58. > :09:07.and trying to get corporation tax to go lower. There is a commitment to
:09:08. > :09:10.lower corporation tax. You pursue opportunity but in this city for a
:09:11. > :09:20.person who does is no studies there is now Intel, Tycho, Citigroup is up
:09:21. > :09:26.to 2000, and those skills, go to Dublin and home done but I would
:09:27. > :09:33.like to get you back here. You were the Employment Minister. My task is
:09:34. > :09:39.to make sure we have the skills companies require. We can do more if
:09:40. > :09:45.we have resources for that but in response to what is happening at the
:09:46. > :09:50.moment, in terms of international companies on stock exchanges, they
:09:51. > :09:55.will not tell a government about Major job losses because that will
:09:56. > :10:02.jeopardise their share price. That is how this works. So for Jonathan
:10:03. > :10:10.Bell to go out and talk up the risk of job losses... UID leader of a
:10:11. > :10:17.political party, Colm, so can you tell me these type of companies give
:10:18. > :10:21.a nod and a wink to governments? If this was a jobs announcement
:10:22. > :10:27.Jonathan Bell would be all over it. You made it about him. I think he
:10:28. > :10:34.has proven he is out of his depth but we need to re-skill those
:10:35. > :10:45.people. Within manufacturing in the last year, 4000 jobs, 80,000 jobs
:10:46. > :10:54.and opportunities... That is well and good. GTI hasn't hit the job
:10:55. > :11:01.market yet. There are more going in May, were placed with 300 jobs in
:11:02. > :11:08.the airport coming back in. Jobs lost at the end of last have not in.
:11:09. > :11:14.We are talking about 580 jobs in shorts. Shorts last year lost nearly
:11:15. > :11:22.800 workers that people are not thinking about. The move is one of
:11:23. > :11:29.this May and concern. I heard Adrian mention when Mechelen went in
:11:30. > :11:35.November. We have been calling for a manufacturing strategy. We don't
:11:36. > :11:40.even know where we are going. With these parties tonight committed to
:11:41. > :11:46.putting a manufacturing strategy for young people to have a future? We
:11:47. > :11:57.have no strategy for manufacturing in Northern Ireland. Is that true?
:11:58. > :12:05.Gareth is saying we have one, you say you don't. We have an economic
:12:06. > :12:12.strategy which covers all of the economy. As you know, manufacturing
:12:13. > :12:22.is a broad area, it is difficult to define where it starts and ends, it
:12:23. > :12:25.has to be integrated. At present we have 80,000 people employed in
:12:26. > :12:34.manufacturing. We had three major job blows. Would you consider a
:12:35. > :12:41.strategy for manufacturing? After the next election I expect to have a
:12:42. > :12:44.clearer focus for manufacturing. We have lots of time, I want to go to
:12:45. > :12:52.the audience. Why do you keep pumping money into a multinational
:12:53. > :12:58.company? Because we get a return and it happens all over the world. The
:12:59. > :13:05.people made redundant today have not had any return. Use the money to
:13:06. > :13:10.skills up. Just to make it a level playing field, do not think that
:13:11. > :13:18.there are bus and I went, who have ganged up, don't think they are not
:13:19. > :13:24.getting support and public subsidy. We have put money from Invest NI
:13:25. > :13:28.into Bombardier. I still believe in Bombardier and that we can turn
:13:29. > :13:33.around the C Series but we need to do it in concert. Why are we blaming
:13:34. > :13:40.the guys on the help and not Bombardier? Now the people in
:13:41. > :13:41.Belfast are suffering because of their failure in getting this plane
:13:42. > :13:53.sorted out. An evil here. It is important we put
:13:54. > :13:56.public money into companies that are coming from other places to set up
:13:57. > :14:00.here. We also don't need to put public money into investing our
:14:01. > :14:03.people and skills. We have 500 highly skilled people who will now
:14:04. > :14:07.be out of a job. What are we doing about the 500 from next year? I have
:14:08. > :14:15.asked for a meeting with Bombardier today. We need to speak to them. I
:14:16. > :14:20.remind you that Invest NI created 9500 jobs last year. Created those
:14:21. > :14:23.jobs. The highest number today. There is a big argument about
:14:24. > :14:27.whether they promoted or created them, but that is a different story.
:14:28. > :14:29.That is creation, that is jobs created.
:14:30. > :14:33.We've a lot more of that, and also to spread it. I have just applaud
:14:34. > :14:38.that. We need to spread it outside of the greater Belfast area into
:14:39. > :14:44.areas... A lot of those jobs were outside Belfast.
:14:45. > :14:49.I have met the people behind it, and of course we need to grow this.
:14:50. > :14:51.The highest amount of economic recovery is because of investment.
:14:52. > :14:59.When you are in the Executive, did you turn around? We are in the
:15:00. > :15:03.Executive. When you were the dominant force? We have
:15:04. > :15:14.decentralised jobs, and you have done is talk about decentralising
:15:15. > :15:21.jobs. We are making headway. I know a lot of companies invest in our
:15:22. > :15:25.city. What is fantastic, and we're a lot more of a...
:15:26. > :15:29.How much has two brought into Derry? I don't know the figure of the top
:15:30. > :15:32.of my head. They say proportionally Derry gets what it deserves.
:15:33. > :15:37.Tell that to people on the dole in Derry. It is not Invest NI's fault,
:15:38. > :15:47.though. Hold on, hold on. Of those 9410
:15:48. > :15:53.jobs, 73% of them were outside Belfast. That is good news. Sorry,
:15:54. > :15:58.you have just spent the last couple of minutes telling us that, how many
:15:59. > :16:03.of those jobs Belfast?! I would like to see where exactly they are. I
:16:04. > :16:09.would like to see them in west and north Belfast as well. Hold on a
:16:10. > :16:13.second. What we need to do is on display in Invest NI. They are doing
:16:14. > :16:16.their best. They have no tools. What is your alternative strategy? I
:16:17. > :16:19.stood up in a budget debate in Stormont this week, where your
:16:20. > :16:24.members spoke on and did not have one alternative proposals of the
:16:25. > :16:31.budget. ?11.5 million. So what is your alternative?
:16:32. > :16:35.We have starved the department. We are talking about investing in the
:16:36. > :16:38.economy, and we have starved Stephen Fry's department, the department
:16:39. > :16:47.that looks after... Where would you take the money from? Are you
:16:48. > :16:50.starved, Stephen? The policies in place to invest in the skills we
:16:51. > :16:54.require, but we do need more resources to make that a reality. As
:16:55. > :16:58.your budget bin/? We have had cuts to higher and
:16:59. > :17:01.further education, and we could do a lot more, in particular, if we are
:17:02. > :17:04.to have a lower rate of corporation tax.
:17:05. > :17:10.One second. Stop shouting over each other. OK. If you are at home
:17:11. > :17:14.tonight, one reason why we are live on this programme is so that you can
:17:15. > :17:19.pick up the phone. If you are one of the people who are going to lose
:17:20. > :17:22.your job, or you have lost your job, would you pick up the phone to us
:17:23. > :17:26.tonight? I would really, really like to hear from you, because you are at
:17:27. > :17:29.the centre of the story. The details will come up on the screen as to how
:17:30. > :17:34.you can get in touch. We are waiting for your call. Go ahead. I just want
:17:35. > :17:42.to know what it says about the shape of the economy, with all these big
:17:43. > :17:44.businesses, so going elsewhere. And people do not realise it is going to
:17:45. > :17:47.have a domino effect another, smaller companies, and there will be
:17:48. > :17:51.other job losses. I just want to know what politicians will do to
:17:52. > :17:58.prevent big businesses from leaving here. Listening to us are doing
:17:59. > :18:02.today, does not give much hope for the people who are affected. You're
:18:03. > :18:05.the man he was calling for the minister to resign. I am the man who
:18:06. > :18:10.is calling for a responsibility to be taken. That was the line from
:18:11. > :18:18.your press release, wasn't it? This is a minister who is failing. The
:18:19. > :18:21.manufacturing sector 13 priorities. One is low energy costs. We are
:18:22. > :18:26.failing. The second is skills. We are failing. The minister is
:18:27. > :18:29.admitting we are not investing enough in further education and
:18:30. > :18:33.higher education. Your party is the party that worked
:18:34. > :18:39.out, right? So you want out of this government. We did. You abdicated
:18:40. > :18:42.responsibility, didn't you? We have a false type of government where
:18:43. > :18:48.this minister can stay in position, and yet he is failing manufacturing.
:18:49. > :18:51.He is failing... I thought you were trying to be responsible tonight. He
:18:52. > :18:54.is failing the manufacturing sector Northern Ireland. The is failing the
:18:55. > :18:58.thousands of people... I have a point of interest here. One
:18:59. > :19:03.second. Because I am very, very interested in this answer. I have
:19:04. > :19:06.said that you are out now, you have walked out. Is the Ulster Unionist
:19:07. > :19:09.Party going back into the Executive after the assembly elections in May?
:19:10. > :19:14.Yes or no? I can't give you an answer and not
:19:15. > :19:17.tonight. The UUP has... Do you have a policy?
:19:18. > :19:22.We are committed to having a two-week window to discuss but the
:19:23. > :19:24.other parties, to develop a programme for government which will
:19:25. > :19:28.deliver for everyone. But here is the really interesting
:19:29. > :19:31.part of that. In other words, your decision is going to be made on what
:19:32. > :19:37.the programme for government is, right? Is that fair?
:19:38. > :19:40.Also to establish is a real commitment to move Northern Ireland
:19:41. > :19:42.forward. To deliver for these people in Europe.
:19:43. > :19:47.The only thing I find intriguing about that is, I thought it was your
:19:48. > :19:51.party leader Mike Nesbitt that said that he had to be out of that
:19:52. > :19:57.government until Gerry Adams and the Chief Constable the same page on the
:19:58. > :20:00.existence of the IRA. Has that is gone now? They want out because of
:20:01. > :20:04.it. Why you going to want back in and forget about it?
:20:05. > :20:07.No, because of the action is my party took in the discussions which
:20:08. > :20:13.brought us the recent cobble together agreement between Sinn
:20:14. > :20:18.Fein... That was the first item on the agenda. The UUP now happy with
:20:19. > :20:21.the IRA? Same ago we are not happy. But it was resigning matter. You
:20:22. > :20:25.want out because of it. You made the right decision. But now you're going
:20:26. > :20:30.to walk in without anything having changed. I have not said that,
:20:31. > :20:34.Stephen. Is still a prerequisite for you to go back in? There was a long
:20:35. > :20:38.way to go. We are standing to be the main party for government to deliver
:20:39. > :20:42.for these people. But you see, part of my job is that, you are right,
:20:43. > :20:45.you are standing for election. The party is. So therefore, part of my
:20:46. > :20:51.job is to make sure people know what they are voting for. So for those
:20:52. > :20:57.people that want to know, if they vote UUP, are they voting for a
:20:58. > :21:00.party that up to now is saying, we will not go back into that Executive
:21:01. > :21:07.until the Chief Constable and Gerry Adams is on the same page? I have
:21:08. > :21:14.made a career of this position. We have outlined the vision that my
:21:15. > :21:17.party believes, we set out a vision for Northern Ireland, and the first
:21:18. > :21:21.statement now says, this is as good as it is going to get the people of
:21:22. > :21:26.Northern Ireland. Palue and so the question about the IRA? I have.
:21:27. > :21:29.Would you answer it again so I can understand? If people want of over
:21:30. > :21:33.the UK and they won't vote for you if you change your position and will
:21:34. > :21:37.go back into the Executive until the IRA matter is clarify, should they
:21:38. > :21:41.vote for you? We will be insisting it is clarified.
:21:42. > :21:43.There is legislation that is establishing monitoring paramilitary
:21:44. > :21:49.behaviour in both the IRA and loyalist paramilitaries. Until it is
:21:50. > :21:51.clarify, will you not go back into the Executive?
:21:52. > :21:57.I think my party leader has very clearly established that. Well, that
:21:58. > :22:00.was a clear answer. Gavin, I will come back in. Unless Gerry Adams and
:22:01. > :22:06.the chief constables are on the same page? I think you have to listen to
:22:07. > :22:10.my answer in its entirety. Vote-macro three. If we are voted in
:22:11. > :22:13.as the main Unionist parties in Northern Ireland, will have a sound
:22:14. > :22:18.mandate. People need to know what they are voting for. I started up by
:22:19. > :22:21.saying, we're looking for hope. I'm sure you've not had much from that
:22:22. > :22:25.exchange. Editing is any fairness given to the nature of
:22:26. > :22:33.manufacturing, and the covering many factory strategy, we have the
:22:34. > :22:38.materials handling strategy, which I shall we roll aware of. We have an
:22:39. > :22:42.automatic strategy and a food science strategy. Do you know what I
:22:43. > :22:45.say? Whenever people at home you are interested in the sorry that you're
:22:46. > :22:51.leaving this programme tonight, 590 individual and families, and they
:22:52. > :22:54.hear this nonsense, and here the squabbling, who cares whether the
:22:55. > :22:57.Ulster Unionist Party to be honest, I going to be in the Executive not
:22:58. > :23:01.come May? Because at the end of the day, they are looking for
:23:02. > :23:05.opportunities. And they are looking for aspiration. I am not interested
:23:06. > :23:10.in, I have to say, somebody who is going to promise the earth,
:23:11. > :23:15.suggesting it is the's fault but their own, knuckle down, roll their
:23:16. > :23:22.sleeves and do something. Do something for people Bombardier. Is
:23:23. > :23:27.that Unionist unity in action? Who cares? The UUP to was that the
:23:28. > :23:31.government, the DUP does not? I'm sure you are able to follow the
:23:32. > :23:35.thread. I was given the example, if I am sitting at home tonight and was
:23:36. > :23:40.told that my job is on the line... Was not a pact of the EU be that you
:23:41. > :23:47.got your seat with? Just listen. Just listen...
:23:48. > :23:52.Ten macro to -- APPLAUSE.. It was a pact, wasn't it?
:23:53. > :23:55.I have to tell you, and I started off in this discussion, and they
:23:56. > :23:58.will carry on long as that, I am not interested tonight, no looking back,
:23:59. > :24:01.and I will be talking about Bombardier again and I shall
:24:02. > :24:04.tomorrow, but if you want me to come back and took about these issues, I
:24:05. > :24:08.will. If I am sitting at home tonight, and I'm one of those 500
:24:09. > :24:11.people potentially one of those 500 further down the tracks, and this is
:24:12. > :24:15.the discussion we're having, I think my heart would be broken. And I
:24:16. > :24:19.think it is there that we inspire some kind of hope. We recognise to
:24:20. > :24:21.the vet and implement figures are down in Northern Ireland. We have
:24:22. > :24:25.had four quarters of consecutive growth in manufacturing, and we have
:24:26. > :24:30.just had at the end of this programme, ?3 billion of your money
:24:31. > :24:32.invested in manufacturing, but Northern Ireland as original as a
:24:33. > :24:37.responsible for a global downturn and aviation. It is not responsible
:24:38. > :24:44.for the decision of a public limited company in Canada. I think we have
:24:45. > :24:51.to recognise it is difficult. I don't think we answered the guy
:24:52. > :24:55.that ask the original question. I will come back here in I can. I
:24:56. > :25:01.just want to go into the audience, I will come back to you. With the
:25:02. > :25:07.glasses, go-ahead, sir. Northern Ireland manufacturers are
:25:08. > :25:10.competing against low-cost economies. You guys need to be
:25:11. > :25:16.creating the environment in which we do competing as low cost economies.
:25:17. > :25:21.And up there, go-ahead, Sir? Last year, Bombardier last ?5
:25:22. > :25:24.million. They invested about ?7.5 billion in the last four years.
:25:25. > :25:31.Nothing Jonathan Bell could have said or done was going to stop this
:25:32. > :25:36.catastrophe that has happened. All we have done in the last five
:25:37. > :25:39.minutes is listened to a load of diatribe from people who are
:25:40. > :25:44.supposed to be looking after our future. They can't agree on
:25:45. > :25:46.anything. What chance have you got getting a strategy?
:25:47. > :25:59.APPLAUSE.. I think some people at home might be
:26:00. > :26:02.having their got tonight, is if you look at the last five years of
:26:03. > :26:06.December, and think some things have been achieved, of course they have,
:26:07. > :26:10.but can you really say the storm and has had its eye on the ball, the
:26:11. > :26:13.maize tobacco, the welfare reform cell-mate, and then might just be
:26:14. > :26:15.thinking, they have got the expenses this week, and they might just be
:26:16. > :26:20.thinking, you distract yourselves with so much.
:26:21. > :26:25.Well, I wanted to hear what the youngster wanted to do, because I do
:26:26. > :26:29.want to say, in terms of indigenous industries, we can really compete
:26:30. > :26:32.against the low-cost economies, because there will always want to
:26:33. > :26:40.undercut, so we need to upscale and go for the knowledge jobs. I think
:26:41. > :26:46.also, certain companies employ several hundred people. I would also
:26:47. > :26:49.say, of course torment of its eye off the ball. Of course I am not
:26:50. > :26:55.happy with how things have been. I have been a 14 month, and I thought
:26:56. > :26:58.there would really enjoy Belfast City Hall. Now, I did not when I was
:26:59. > :27:01.a youngster. But I enjoyed it when I was there in recent years, because
:27:02. > :27:05.got things done and liver to the people. In my view, Stormont did not
:27:06. > :27:10.do enough of that. I have a choice. I could stay in Belfast City Hall.
:27:11. > :27:14.Or go up what I wanted to do and build a peace and create jobs.
:27:15. > :27:18.But it is about credibility now, isn't it? And it is about the
:27:19. > :27:23.population trusting all of you with their lives and delivering for them.
:27:24. > :27:28.And even if we look at what has happened this week, we were running
:27:29. > :27:33.on the radio show the expenses story. We were hearing politicians
:27:34. > :27:38.standing up, saying there are now it is absolutely no story here, and
:27:39. > :27:41.then your leader, the First Minister and Deputy First Minister all of a
:27:42. > :27:44.sudden want to review because there was public pressure on the
:27:45. > :27:51.situation. I don't set that. If you are watching spotlight last night...
:27:52. > :27:55.I wouldn't miss it. Am sure that's true. You would have heard Jeffrey
:27:56. > :27:57.Donaldson, and you can accept this point, because you have been through
:27:58. > :28:04.all the processes of negotiation. We were calling through a review at the
:28:05. > :28:10.time... You signed a fresh start agreement that actually said that
:28:11. > :28:13.change was not legal. If we had refused to sign up to the fresh
:28:14. > :28:16.start agreement on the basis of a disagreement of review expenses, you
:28:17. > :28:21.would have pilloried us. You have to recognise that a negotiation, you
:28:22. > :28:25.set out your stall and negotiate, and you give a little on somethings.
:28:26. > :28:29.Do you think the expenses system does work like that? Well, I operate
:28:30. > :28:33.under the system, as you know, in Westminster. I had a bit of your
:28:34. > :28:37.programme this morning, and there seemed to be an issue about
:28:38. > :28:41.journeys, claimed for milage. Actually, what we were describing in
:28:42. > :28:45.the assembly is what happens in that system. That is not what they say.
:28:46. > :28:48.If you have read the report, they actually distinguish between the
:28:49. > :28:56.milage system in Northern Ireland and across the UK. And they
:28:57. > :28:58.distinguish between GB 's, -- GB MPs in Northern Ireland peace.
:28:59. > :29:03.They not think people have a question about Sinn Fein? This
:29:04. > :29:07.?700,000, whether your party likes it or not, here is the score will
:29:08. > :29:13.stop people want to see the research that they have paid for, because it
:29:14. > :29:15.has now become an issue. Can Sinn Fein show anybody in the country the
:29:16. > :29:25.research that they paid for? That feeds into the question about
:29:26. > :29:30.negative perceptions towards Stormont House and people can decide
:29:31. > :29:38.in May if I am doing a good job. Can Sinn Fein show people that research?
:29:39. > :29:44.I was at a meeting today about the Barnett formula and had research. I
:29:45. > :29:51.am a public servant, any money I get is from the Albert purse, there
:29:52. > :29:57.should be no gaming the system, no malfeasance, and if there is people
:29:58. > :30:06.should be brought to account. That is a broad Westminster warrant. I do
:30:07. > :30:12.not claim any travel expenses. I am the MLA who travels the most in
:30:13. > :30:16.terms of North America, I tried to get a flight from Boston to Belfast
:30:17. > :30:22.last week and everyone should be held to account. If you put it a
:30:23. > :30:27.fraudulent expense to the BBC, you should be held to account and anyone
:30:28. > :30:34.stealing money it is a matter for the police. Gavin says in the fresh
:30:35. > :30:38.start agreement you have two negotiate whether there would be a
:30:39. > :30:44.review in expenses. Who was not willing? We put forward an agreement
:30:45. > :30:51.and it was not agreed by other parties. The Alliance Party might be
:30:52. > :30:58.an exception. Sinn Fein didn't want a review? I am happy for the system
:30:59. > :31:06.to be reviewed. Did you object to the review? We have always said we
:31:07. > :31:14.want to see the most transparent system possible. I was the first
:31:15. > :31:20.leader on your show to say we need a more transparent system. It is not
:31:21. > :31:24.as bad as it has been made out, most politicians are doing their best but
:31:25. > :31:30.it should be as transparent as it can be. The appeal system should be
:31:31. > :31:38.formalised for everyone to see. That would give more confidence for the
:31:39. > :31:43.public. We also need full transparency on donations as to who
:31:44. > :31:50.is funding parties. That's a whole other programme. What needs to be
:31:51. > :31:55.done tonight? All the parties need to put in place a manufacturing
:31:56. > :31:58.strategy for Northern Ireland. Scotland has opened a centre of
:31:59. > :32:02.excellence for manufacturing because they understand growing the
:32:03. > :32:08.manufacturing sector brings wealth to the economy. One question was
:32:09. > :32:15.about low-cost economies, but that is where we're going. Minimum wage,
:32:16. > :32:20.just above it, we are being driven into a low-cost economies and if
:32:21. > :32:24.that is the height of ambition at Stormont, maybe we should forget
:32:25. > :32:29.Stormont. I will put the economy where it should be but it has to be
:32:30. > :32:36.about tourism and indigenous industry. Give us an exclusive,
:32:37. > :32:43.would you be the next Economy Minister? I doubt it very much. To
:32:44. > :32:52.you what made to be the next Economy Minister? Do you have a boat in
:32:53. > :32:59.South Belfast? I doubt anyone here knows who I vote for and that is how
:33:00. > :33:03.it should be. We can do a lot more but we have to listen to the
:33:04. > :33:08.manufacturing sector. This is about families about to lose their jobs.
:33:09. > :33:14.Manufacturing NI have produced what they feel is necessary, we have to
:33:15. > :33:22.listen to those companies, not politicians all the time. Ladies and
:33:23. > :33:29.gentlemen, give our guests a road of applause, they have agreed. A change
:33:30. > :33:31.of tone now. Prepare to be amazed now,
:33:32. > :33:33.because my next act is going It is this seven of diamonds, ladies
:33:34. > :34:04.and gentlemen. Yes, it's none other
:34:05. > :34:26.than magic megastar, Dynamo! Don't you start playing the audience
:34:27. > :34:34.already. This guide, 11 years ago... Was it that long? 2005, when he
:34:35. > :34:42.wasn't the big there he is now, he came to Belfast. Take a different
:34:43. > :34:46.one. That might be your magic power, I have always wanted to look like
:34:47. > :34:51.one of these cool dudes. You look like something. Have you heard of
:34:52. > :35:02.being taken up a dark entry in Belfast? I clearly haven't aged that
:35:03. > :35:12.all... But maybe we can have dynamite up on the screen. Looks...
:35:13. > :35:19.What happened? A lot has happened in between. Your career has just
:35:20. > :35:26.soared. It has gone crazy, I have had different TV series, travelling
:35:27. > :35:32.all over the world doing magic and I have put together a live show which
:35:33. > :35:39.I am bringing here to Belfast. Yes, to the SSE arena and we look forward
:35:40. > :35:43.to that because I love it when you see a talent grow and that is what
:35:44. > :35:53.you have done. Has the journey been difficult? It has been tricky along
:35:54. > :36:00.the way, no pun intended. When I first got into magic it was not that
:36:01. > :36:05.popular anymore. After years of Paul Daniels and David Copperfield, there
:36:06. > :36:10.were not many people around, David Blaine had been on the scene but it
:36:11. > :36:15.wasn't that culturally relevant, so when I started, I had to work for 15
:36:16. > :36:23.years to make people take notice of what I do that now it is amazing
:36:24. > :36:29.that people want to see my magic. We haven't met them rehearse all. I
:36:30. > :36:35.read fuse to meet him. Actually I refuse to meet you. What are you
:36:36. > :36:42.going to do? Have you ever been pickpocketed? A guy still tense of
:36:43. > :36:46.thousands of pounds from my credit card, hacked into my bank account
:36:47. > :36:52.but didn't take money from my pocket. I want to try something
:36:53. > :37:02.cutting techniques but I will use my wallet. -- pickpocketing. In fact,
:37:03. > :37:15.can you stand up? Have you got a pocket their? Is it empty? Yes. Pop
:37:16. > :37:21.that inside. Can I keep it? I have always been intrigued by
:37:22. > :37:26.pickpocketing but I do not condone pickpocketing, I just think it is
:37:27. > :37:30.impressive how fast they do it. I will do it in slow motion so you can
:37:31. > :37:36.see what would happen, so the idea is to reach in and try to take out
:37:37. > :37:43.the wallet without feeling anything. I was fumbling. You felt me getting
:37:44. > :37:49.the wallet but the thing I find impressive is the best way of doing
:37:50. > :37:53.it is to reach in, take out the wallet without you feeling anything,
:37:54. > :37:59.take the money from the wallet and put the wallet act in your pocket
:38:00. > :38:04.without you feeling anything, so we will try it again faster, let's get
:38:05. > :38:12.a close-up on the wallet. There we go. The idea is to put the wallet
:38:13. > :38:19.back in your pocket, leaving me with the cash, so if I have the cash now,
:38:20. > :38:35.where is the wallet? Where is the bloody wallet? No. That is
:38:36. > :38:41.brilliant, mate. Cheers. That is class, it is. I know you will go
:38:42. > :38:46.into the audience and do another trick in a couple of minutes. If we
:38:47. > :38:52.look at you as a young kid, I was shocked, that lovely smiling little
:38:53. > :39:00.boy, you were bullied in school. What happened? I went to quite a
:39:01. > :39:07.poor school and I grew up in a single parent family, I was quite an
:39:08. > :39:11.easy target, a small guy when older kids were going through adolescence,
:39:12. > :39:17.I was a late starter. That was in and out of prison. He was always up
:39:18. > :39:23.to no good so I didn't have a relationship with him, my mum was
:39:24. > :39:30.young and I was an easy target. It was typical fleeing but Mike grampa
:39:31. > :39:38.showed me some magical techniques to stop this happening, to give me a
:39:39. > :39:44.defence mechanism. So it was your grandfather's love of magic that got
:39:45. > :39:50.you into it. There he is. Without him I would not be doing what I am
:39:51. > :39:55.doing. This show I am doing at the SSE is dedicated to him and his
:39:56. > :40:01.story and my story and our journeys interweave. He would be proud of you
:40:02. > :40:10.now. Hopefully he is watching from up there. And your man makes a
:40:11. > :40:19.cameo. She does magic. She is 86 years old, still working magic. She
:40:20. > :40:23.steals my show every night. You can always feel about a guest if the
:40:24. > :40:30.urge anyone, and you were a nice guy who is doing wonderful things --
:40:31. > :40:37.they are genuine. You made it in a competitive business, and you are
:40:38. > :40:44.mixing with big celebrities. On my TV shows I have had... Prince
:40:45. > :40:52.Charles, you did a trick on him. My company was set up with a loan from
:40:53. > :41:00.the Prince's Trust, his charity. That is the woman from X Factor.
:41:01. > :41:09.Yeah, Rita or, her jaw dropped, and Paloma Faith next to her. A bit of
:41:10. > :41:20.rivalry there. Is it hard to keep your feet on the ground? Sometimes I
:41:21. > :41:26.levitate. And sometimes you have walked on water. This shot we showed
:41:27. > :41:32.at the beginning, there you are, so talk us through this. That was an
:41:33. > :41:38.ambition of mine since I was 13 years old when I first had the idea
:41:39. > :41:42.that it was because I was being bullied, the guys from my estate
:41:43. > :41:48.would take me to the local damn which separated my estate from the
:41:49. > :41:55.next estate and they would throw me in the water but I didn't know how
:41:56. > :42:02.to swim until I was 16 so I would always panic. Luckily my friend
:42:03. > :42:06.would get me out, so thanks, Wayne! The guy who was thrown in the water
:42:07. > :42:13.as a bullied kid can now walk on water. I always used to wish I could
:42:14. > :42:19.walk on water because I couldn't swim and then when I proceed magic I
:42:20. > :42:23.thought that was in my ambition and I would do with on the most famous
:42:24. > :42:29.river in England. You need to come to the river like them or go down to
:42:30. > :42:38.Strangford Lough work I live and we will watch you walking on Walker.
:42:39. > :42:44.You never know what will happen. I have Crohn's disease, I know a lot
:42:45. > :42:50.of people have it. What is Crohn's disease? Without going into too much
:42:51. > :42:56.detail because it is not the nicest to talk about, it is like having an
:42:57. > :43:01.open wound inside your tummy and each time you eat it is like rubbing
:43:02. > :43:08.dirt into the wind. It never heals and can be quite in comfortable. I
:43:09. > :43:16.was in hospital for six months and nearly passed away, they had to do
:43:17. > :43:22.almost like a last-minute life-saving operation, they left a
:43:23. > :43:26.scar which from afar that's like a six-pack so I will take it. From the
:43:27. > :43:33.time I had a big fight with a crew shark and a crocodile and a lion at
:43:34. > :43:41.the same time, if the ladies ask, but I am here and it was while I was
:43:42. > :43:46.in hospital I thought if I died then, what would people remember me
:43:47. > :43:52.for? I dabbled at skateboarding, BMX, football, I wasn't good at them
:43:53. > :43:57.but I was pretty good at magic and I thought when I got out I would focus
:43:58. > :44:04.on magic and make it my career to leave a legacy. How about working
:44:05. > :44:13.your magic on this audience? Do you want me to come out their? This lady
:44:14. > :44:16.here, what is your name? Can you help me out? Give her a round of
:44:17. > :44:27.applause. We will stand right here. Perfect.
:44:28. > :44:33.So, I do here with your husband? Yes. Have you got anyone watching at
:44:34. > :44:40.home? Yes, my son Ryan. And is on the telly! With me, Dynamo! Anyway,
:44:41. > :44:49.check this out. So, I have some cards somewhere. There, and I have a
:44:50. > :44:53.plan. I will give you the pan. -- the pen. I will start by giving the
:44:54. > :44:55.card to shuffle. Shall we give them a Dynamo shuffled? We will do the
:44:56. > :45:10.Dynamo shuffle on you, like this. So, the cards are well shuffled. You
:45:11. > :45:17.can see that on the screen there. Are you happy with that, Anne? Yes.
:45:18. > :45:21.Great. What I would like you to do is, hold this card so anyone can see
:45:22. > :45:26.it at home. Write down your name and bank details on the! No, just write
:45:27. > :45:33.down your name. Perfect. So we have Anne's card
:45:34. > :45:37.right there. I will get a close up of that. Brilliant. I will take that
:45:38. > :45:41.card, and water when used to do, Anne, is bite down on it. Hold it
:45:42. > :45:44.right there. And I will take the next card, the jack of spades, and I
:45:45. > :45:57.will write my name on this one. So I have got... Dynamo on the jack
:45:58. > :46:00.of spades. Sorry, actually, did you get a
:46:01. > :46:08.close-up that? Dynamo on the jack of spades. Nice and slowly.
:46:09. > :46:38.No! APPLAUSE. If I've got your card, what could
:46:39. > :46:42.you go? Take it out and show everyone.
:46:43. > :46:46.Oh, no! APPLAUSE.. Thank you very much.
:46:47. > :46:51.That was very good! A round of applause for Dynamo!
:46:52. > :46:59.Brilliant. Thanks, mate. You're always welcome in Belfast.
:47:00. > :47:01.Earlier we were asking whether Stormont is delivering
:47:02. > :47:04.enough - but should it be handing out more cash to the arts?
:47:05. > :47:06.That's what the Assembly's Culture and Arts Committee called
:47:07. > :47:22.What do you think? Well, there is no doubt, Stephen that a vibrant arts
:47:23. > :47:27.and cultural energy within the city is... That's what everybody wants.
:47:28. > :47:31.But it is a pointer priority. Is it important to the people who have
:47:32. > :47:35.lost their jobs today? Is the priority? Not really, no. You could
:47:36. > :47:39.say that about anything in society. Obviously, there are things that are
:47:40. > :47:42.more of a priority than others, but do you not want a bit of culture
:47:43. > :47:46.around the place? Of course we do, but have you been
:47:47. > :47:48.to the Ulster Orchestra? Have you seen how fantastically talented that
:47:49. > :47:51.local orchestra is? I have, and I have witnessed the
:47:52. > :47:58.large amount of vacant seats. Nobody wants to go to it. Not nobody
:47:59. > :48:03.wants to go to it, but it needs to pay for itself. Why should the
:48:04. > :48:08.public have to pay for arts and crafts that just don't really
:48:09. > :48:12.generate any money? The key question for you, because
:48:13. > :48:15.Beasley, you would be supporting arts funding, is, if it is that
:48:16. > :48:18.attractive, let people pay the proper ticket price to fund it?
:48:19. > :48:22.Let me tell you what is good about the arts. The arts inspire, the arts
:48:23. > :48:27.Unite, the arts create. They give hope, they give happiness, they give
:48:28. > :48:31.health. So let people pay for it. This is what they do for our
:48:32. > :48:35.society. They bring healthy cities, they bring tourists, they give jobs,
:48:36. > :48:39.they give confidence, and most of all, they bring people together. It
:48:40. > :48:43.is something worth investing in. Did you enjoy Dynamo? Yes, you did. Is
:48:44. > :48:48.that the way we get people feeling good about things? Yes, it is.
:48:49. > :48:56.Dynamo wasn't subsidised, as far a by government. So...
:48:57. > :49:00.You got one laugh. This is a serious point. The arts are what makes life
:49:01. > :49:04.worth living. The people that are in our arts sector, and there are many
:49:05. > :49:08.of them in the creative sector, more than there are in agriculture, work
:49:09. > :49:12.really hard. They bring is altogether. You look at the Belfast
:49:13. > :49:15.cultural circus, you look at the Lilliput Theatre from Derry, all of
:49:16. > :49:19.the great thing is that they do. We should be investing more in them.
:49:20. > :49:23.Come into the real world. When somebody hasn't got a job...
:49:24. > :49:29.Somebody from the Conservative Party telling us to come into the real
:49:30. > :49:33.world? Well, we are in the real world, Stephen. We are rebalancing
:49:34. > :49:37.the books. It is a simple case of economic. We have to prioritise, and
:49:38. > :49:41.to be honest, my priorities, hearts would be way down. Your dog new
:49:42. > :49:48.jobs, about aspiration, what makes people happy. Jobs, wealth, economy,
:49:49. > :49:54.being really, really up and vibrant, you know... I just want to go into
:49:55. > :49:58.the audience, look back to you. This lady.
:49:59. > :50:03.My name is Ursula Graham, and I am an NHS nurse. I think health surgery
:50:04. > :50:06.at priority. It frustrates me every day, when I drive along, and you
:50:07. > :50:12.consider the amount of money that was put into the big ball at the
:50:13. > :50:18.Broadway roundabout. The balls in the falls? Why is that put straight
:50:19. > :50:22.you? Because when you see the cuts in the NHS, the shortages, and you
:50:23. > :50:27.think people on waiting lists, right across the spectrum, you think of
:50:28. > :50:32.children's EMT, that is a priority. Mental health is a major priority.
:50:33. > :50:35.The money could have been invested in live donor transplants. Think of
:50:36. > :50:41.the amount of money that 500,000 could be spent on.
:50:42. > :50:49.That is very important. APPLAUSE.. Come on, Basil.
:50:50. > :50:52.So, last week, I had Lilliput Theatre from Derry down, talking
:50:53. > :50:56.with people, with learning disabilities about what their rights
:50:57. > :50:59.are in a hospital. Really powerful use of theatre. The do you know
:51:00. > :51:03.what? If you really want people to be healthy, you must give them
:51:04. > :51:06.confidence. All of our young people in the communities, what they need
:51:07. > :51:13.is self-esteem. Jobs. Jobs. Stopper a second. I will
:51:14. > :51:17.make the point. Here is the real issue. You want to make people feel
:51:18. > :51:20.good about themselves, getting out, socialising. The you know what is
:51:21. > :51:24.happening at the moment? People are doing it almost afraid. Most people
:51:25. > :51:27.in the arts sector were below the national minimum wage, without job
:51:28. > :51:30.security, and yet they do a wonderful job, and as the London,
:51:31. > :51:33.there is far too much of our cultural heritage that is wrapped up
:51:34. > :51:39.in London. You shouldn't have to be rich to go and enjoy the arts. The
:51:40. > :51:42.artist preferably. It deserves to be supportive. And it will pay us back
:51:43. > :51:45.in spades. Two two.
:51:46. > :51:50.Those things first. I take your point. But when I go to visit people
:51:51. > :51:54.in hospital, and there are ?1000 worth of our work, do a really want
:51:55. > :51:57.to see that? Know. I want to see a new x-ray machine, I want to see
:51:58. > :52:05.that space. You talk about job creation. With the arts and stuff.
:52:06. > :52:09.It is not about that. That is... That is something we do when we have
:52:10. > :52:13.extra money to go and do it. We have people who can't put bread on the
:52:14. > :52:18.table, and you are talking about giving them money to...
:52:19. > :52:23.People who can't put bread on the table. You are the party responsible
:52:24. > :52:28.for welfare reform in this country. APPLAUSE..
:52:29. > :52:32.There are ?11 billion I come from Westminster into Northern Ireland,
:52:33. > :52:38.and that is why I am here tonight. How Stormont used to spend that is
:52:39. > :52:45.why I am here tonight. The point is, it is maybe all right for rich
:52:46. > :52:49.Tories to tell people who cannot afford the arts, don't worry about
:52:50. > :52:53.it, while the rich Tories go to the arts, because they can afford it.
:52:54. > :52:57.Let me just dispel your myth. I am from north Belfast, I am working
:52:58. > :53:01.class, I have a chippy. I am not a rich Tory. I don't smoke cigars or
:53:02. > :53:05.drive a jaguar. But do you know what I take offence at you macro when I
:53:06. > :53:08.go to a hospital, and we are lacking in nurses, and they are spending
:53:09. > :53:10.hundreds of thousands of pounds in artwork.
:53:11. > :53:13.I would just like to say, the gentleman from the Conservative
:53:14. > :53:17.Party, he seems to be annoyed at funding going to the arts. Do you
:53:18. > :53:22.know what I am annoyed at? The Tories allowing people to pay 3%
:53:23. > :53:26.tax. How much could that have generated? Had they not been so
:53:27. > :53:30.lenient and multinationals? APPLAUSE.. Very quickly. We're
:53:31. > :53:33.running out of time. The fact that the Executive can't balance the
:53:34. > :53:35.budget has been proved time and time again.
:53:36. > :53:38.They fight to the death, and then disagree on what they agreed on.
:53:39. > :53:42.Given that the arts budget is about the same as keeping the Department
:53:43. > :53:47.for health going for a single day, one day, four days the Justice
:53:48. > :53:51.Department, does Basil think you could campaign for one or the other?
:53:52. > :53:55.Because at the moment, we don't have money to deliver thing. It's a case
:53:56. > :53:58.of have to and nice to. And arts are nice too.
:53:59. > :54:02.A good question, but we will hold up a minute. Frazer Robb, go-ahead.
:54:03. > :54:05.What do you think you macro I think it is important that the arts are
:54:06. > :54:08.funded from the public purse, quite frankly. It takes very little money
:54:09. > :54:14.to keep a small infrastructure running for people to perform, for
:54:15. > :54:21.example, and a lot of people in the arts are working for minimum wage
:54:22. > :54:24.offer free. But small theatres, like Black Box, for people to hone their
:54:25. > :54:29.skills and give performances, to go on to become the stars of tomorrow,
:54:30. > :54:31.are essential. We have about 40 seconds.
:54:32. > :54:36.I will fly round the audience. To the guy who was totally about one
:54:37. > :54:41.day being the same amount of money that would take for the arts, has he
:54:42. > :54:46.any idea what actually happens in a day in the NHS? The things that can
:54:47. > :54:52.happen for people lives? Life-and-death!
:54:53. > :54:56.But arts make people healthier. You see, if you get people out with good
:54:57. > :55:02.mental attitudes, loss of self-esteem, building communities,
:55:03. > :55:08.building a body together, this is... There is only ?100 billion. Look at
:55:09. > :55:11.the money we're spending on health already. Isn't prevention better
:55:12. > :55:18.than cure? I will squeeze in this lady in the glasses.
:55:19. > :55:21.Break quickly. Early on, we heard how much money MLAs were getting in
:55:22. > :55:25.terms of their expenses. That is coming from the public purse. Why
:55:26. > :55:28.are they getting that much money to claiming expenses when I could go
:55:29. > :55:32.back to the public and give back in something like the arts?
:55:33. > :55:35.OK. We're back to expenses again. I would like to actually talk about
:55:36. > :55:38.this a little more, but we can't, because we have got an hour-long
:55:39. > :55:44.show, and we're out time. Listen, that is about it for tonight. We
:55:45. > :55:44.will come back to will be subject on the radio programme tomorrow
:55:45. > :55:45.morning. Before we go, we have a music treat
:55:46. > :55:49.in store for you from a man who has Playing us out with his latest
:55:50. > :55:53.single Up Up And Away, # Save all the trouble
:55:54. > :56:47.for another day # There's nothing holding me down
:56:48. > :56:52.so teach me how to fly # Save all the trouble
:56:53. > :56:57.for another day # There's nothing holding me down
:56:58. > :57:05.so teach me how to fly # Save all the trouble
:57:06. > :57:52.for another day # There's nothing holding me down
:57:53. > :57:57.so teach me how to fly # Save all the trouble
:57:58. > :58:03.for another day # There's nothing holding me down
:58:04. > :58:10.so teach me how to fly # Save all the trouble
:58:11. > :58:45.for another day # There's nothing holding me down
:58:46. > :58:59.so teach me how to fly.