:00:00. > :00:00.Lots to talk about on the big show tonight.
:00:00. > :00:07.The row over a publicly-funded book called Bobby Sands Freedom Fighter.
:00:08. > :00:09.We're also tackling the EU referendum.
:00:10. > :00:15.And we've live music from a real rising star.
:00:16. > :00:44.And it's all in front of a live Nolan audience.
:00:45. > :00:58.We are the reason, so that you can all take part. You will see all the
:00:59. > :00:59.details up on your screen. Our first debate of the night.
:01:00. > :01:02.That's the title of a controversial new book.
:01:03. > :01:07.The publisher got a ?5,000 grant from the Arts Council of Northern
:01:08. > :01:16.But republicans say they should wise up.
:01:17. > :01:25.Angry about what? I think the content of the book is such that it
:01:26. > :01:30.should not have received public funding. People are free to publish
:01:31. > :01:33.whatever they want but it should not have received the endorsement and
:01:34. > :01:39.funding of the arts Council. And I say that for a number of reasons.
:01:40. > :01:46.First, the book has been written in a format, a comic novel, it really
:01:47. > :01:52.glamorises Bobby Sands... He is able he wrote a part of the community you
:01:53. > :01:55.live in. -- he is a hero. I just have a strong view that if we are
:01:56. > :02:00.putting role models in front of young people, and this is directed
:02:01. > :02:03.very much at a young audience, if we are putting role models in front of
:02:04. > :02:05.young people, Bobby Sands is not a good example. We should not be
:02:06. > :02:11.encouraging young people to idolise those who were terrorists. It is a
:02:12. > :02:18.bit rich for Nelson to be saying that, given the fact that he, in his
:02:19. > :02:24.own publications, was awarded a grant to publishers book about
:02:25. > :02:28.Belfast. And in my opinion, Bobby Sands is a role model for young
:02:29. > :02:36.people. He was 27 years of age, he spent one third of his life in jail,
:02:37. > :02:41.66 days on hunger strike and he got more votes than you will ever get.
:02:42. > :02:46.Did you try to block a factory? He was charged along with four people,
:02:47. > :02:49.including Joe McDonald, who also died on hunger strike, with having a
:02:50. > :02:55.firearm. That is what they were convicted. There were sentenced to
:02:56. > :03:01.15 years in jail. What would he have wanted to do with a gun? They were
:03:02. > :03:07.on an IRA operation. So did they want to shoot somebody dead? They
:03:08. > :03:12.wanted to protect... There are more guns in the society hailed by the
:03:13. > :03:18.state forces than ever the IRA held. I guess... There are more guns used
:03:19. > :03:23.by the state forces to kill civilians. And we have never got to
:03:24. > :03:27.the bottom of collusion. I guess what I am asking is, and this is for
:03:28. > :03:32.the benefit of the next generation as well, so let's take a young
:03:33. > :03:35.dissident, who is reading that book and thinking maybe they could get
:03:36. > :03:40.their hands on the gun, they did a good look at Bobby Sands as a role
:03:41. > :03:45.model, "One day I can be a role model." When Bobby Sands was
:03:46. > :03:50.arrested, that was the second time he was arrested. The first, in 1972,
:03:51. > :03:54.he had a logical status because the British government, William
:03:55. > :03:59.Whitelaw, conceded. And in the law that he was convicted under, they
:04:00. > :04:05.recognised the political staters of people who were engaged in armed
:04:06. > :04:08.activities against the state. But when you go people role models, I've
:04:09. > :04:15.not got to be careful? Is Edward Carson a role model? He engaged...
:04:16. > :04:18.He imported arms illegally from Germany, set up the first
:04:19. > :04:24.paramilitary organisation of the 21st, 20th century. -- the 20th
:04:25. > :04:28.century but so let's talk about that. What you got to acknowledge,
:04:29. > :04:34.Nelson, is that Bobby Sands, whether you like it or not, he was a figure.
:04:35. > :04:38.Have Republicans not got a right to remember him, honour him, call it
:04:39. > :04:42.whatever they want- a hero, a role model? The book that has been
:04:43. > :04:45.produced with public funding not only glamorises Bobby Sands and
:04:46. > :04:49.turns them into a hero figure, I think, for young people, it also
:04:50. > :04:55.adopts... The publisher would reject that. They might, but if you look at
:04:56. > :04:58.the content, and I have looked at it, that is pretty clear. And I
:04:59. > :05:01.should note that earlier on today the publisher said it was not aimed
:05:02. > :05:05.at young people and in the same interview went on to say it was. So
:05:06. > :05:12.I do not know what he was thinking about. It is not aimed at you! My
:05:13. > :05:15.concern is that there are young people who are impressionable, who
:05:16. > :05:20.could be influenced by that and similar publications. It is not only
:05:21. > :05:25.the story of Bobby Sands, it is the whole narrative within the book,
:05:26. > :05:28.which is essentially a pro-Sinn Fein, pro-IRA... 50 years of
:05:29. > :05:33.discrimination, Bobby Sands was put out of his home in north Belfast by
:05:34. > :05:37.loyalists. He went to live in Twinbrook. The history of this
:05:38. > :05:41.state, which is something you deny, despite the fact that we were an
:05:42. > :05:48.artificial minority in this state, we made up 60% of the people forced
:05:49. > :05:52.to emigrate. We did not have a votes. Whenever we marched, we were
:05:53. > :06:00.beaten into the ground. Duke Street, 1968, civil rights... John Gallagher
:06:01. > :06:06.was shot dead in Armagh city in 1969, before the IRA fired the first
:06:07. > :06:11.shot, the Unionist government killed nationalists. Let's despair and made
:06:12. > :06:16.a couple of points... APPLAUSE
:06:17. > :06:22.-- let's bear in mind a couple of points. Long before the 20th
:06:23. > :06:25.century, Irish publicans were modern people. If you go back to the Irish
:06:26. > :06:30.Republican brotherhood, who organised the 1916 rising, that was
:06:31. > :06:35.a terrorist organisation. And for Danny Morrison to say that people
:06:36. > :06:43.from the Catholic Nationalist society did not have votes. If it
:06:44. > :06:50.was... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER
:06:51. > :06:53.It did not matter whether you were a Protestant or a Roman Catholic, the
:06:54. > :06:57.fact is that everybody on the electoral list, Protestant and
:06:58. > :07:01.Catholic, whatever, you had a for Westminster elections and there was
:07:02. > :07:09.also a vote for Stormont. We are talking about cancel... Who come in
:07:10. > :07:15.Derry, a unionist minority dominated the Council for 50 years? Explain
:07:16. > :07:19.that. He is talking Redken selections that is not what he said.
:07:20. > :07:22.Well, I should not be surprised that somebody comes on this programme and
:07:23. > :07:26.attempts to justify the sort of activity that was carried out by
:07:27. > :07:29.Bobby Sands. I hope we would be moving beyond that and getting
:07:30. > :07:34.beyond that. Don't you think, Nelson... Don't you think that part
:07:35. > :07:39.of moving on, and that is why this programme is so interesting, I
:07:40. > :07:41.reckon, you not think of moving on is about people like you
:07:42. > :07:46.understanding that there is a different narrative from another
:07:47. > :07:52.community, from about the people? And sadder than attack, attack,
:07:53. > :08:00.attack, it is trying to understand? -- from another group of people. If
:08:01. > :08:03.you had been in the context, living the life of Bobby Sands, do you
:08:04. > :08:06.think you could have become a paramilitary? I think that there are
:08:07. > :08:10.many people who were there at the start of the trouble is, as I was,
:08:11. > :08:14.in my late teens, who look back and wonder what might or might not have
:08:15. > :08:17.happened. The fact is, I took a conscious decision that was not the
:08:18. > :08:22.road for me. You think Bobby Sands was just an ordinary... Criminals
:08:23. > :08:27.not starve themselves to death. There was a point of principle at
:08:28. > :08:30.least. Absolutely does a bit something that needs to considered
:08:31. > :08:36.and export, I have no urgent about that. But I do have an argument that
:08:37. > :08:41.portrays him as a superhero. This is comic quite stale publication. It is
:08:42. > :08:50.a graphic novel. -- comic style publication. It is the graphic
:08:51. > :08:53.novel. Most people looking that it will look at the content and the
:08:54. > :08:58.edges a style of a comic. There are words in it but it is in the style
:08:59. > :09:01.of the illustrations are of a comic people stop we can look, the
:09:02. > :09:08.illustrations while we we're talking. It is aimed, I believe, at
:09:09. > :09:11.turning Bobby Sands and others like him, and the IRA, into hero figures
:09:12. > :09:16.for young people. I would prefer that our young people growing up now
:09:17. > :09:22.today had better role models. Here is a young Pearson and our audience.
:09:23. > :09:25.Go ahead. What frustrates and angers me is that the arts Council claim
:09:26. > :09:30.they cannot fund certain things, like cross community performing arts
:09:31. > :09:36.in Belfast, but yet they can find ?5,000 to invest in a book. I just
:09:37. > :09:40.don't know how that... But why should they not have? Why would you
:09:41. > :09:45.not invest in people's education, for their future careers, instead of
:09:46. > :09:51.a book? Maybe that is part of somebody's education. The arts
:09:52. > :09:58.Council has funded many things, including, for example, a play by a
:09:59. > :10:03.former UVF live prisoner, Bobby Niblock, a play called Reason To
:10:04. > :10:06.Believe, about UDA prisoners who came out of jail and could not cope.
:10:07. > :10:11.I think that was meritorious. That was a good thing to fund. But you
:10:12. > :10:16.are not investing in performing arts courses at Belfast. I am not his
:10:17. > :10:23.books present for the arts Council but they do. The person in the
:10:24. > :10:27.audience makes a valid point which is added M pressure on budgets,
:10:28. > :10:30.particularly in the arts sector, and we have seen the evidence of that
:10:31. > :10:36.very recent days with protests by people from a range of arts
:10:37. > :10:39.organisations, at a time when the arts budget is under pressure, it is
:10:40. > :10:45.an appalling use, even though it may just be a modest sum of ?5,000, it
:10:46. > :10:51.is a wrong use. From what I can gather, it is a comic, and I have to
:10:52. > :10:55.agree with nothing, it is a comic based at young kids. It is a graphic
:10:56. > :11:02.that. It is the same comics I read as a kid. Apparently all age groups
:11:03. > :11:06.read these. It is a comic. It is nothing but indoctrination. We are
:11:07. > :11:13.paying for it from the public purse. It is public indoctrination of young
:11:14. > :11:18.kids. It is not acceptable! It has a full page endorsement at the back, a
:11:19. > :11:26.personal message from Gerry Adams. It reads like a Sinn Fein propaganda
:11:27. > :11:31.sheet. No, it not. That would be Gerry Adams, your Npower within
:11:32. > :11:42.Stormont. Let us remind you. THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER!
:11:43. > :11:46.You may not have realised that Gerry Adams went to Dublin.
:11:47. > :11:52.Here's the president of Sinn Fein Do you want me to and to him or you? I
:11:53. > :12:00.am always the bed by! I will not argue with that point. -- I am
:12:01. > :12:06.always the big boy. As regards Sinn Fein in Parliament, Sinn Fein
:12:07. > :12:10.install Stormont, in the Dail, I personally do not understand at all
:12:11. > :12:18.why people vote for them. I cannot understand that. Because it is a
:12:19. > :12:24.party... Sorry, if... This is nothing to do with that. You asked
:12:25. > :12:29.my views on them. Can you not accept that this man... This man at the
:12:30. > :12:38.heart of this story is a hero in Danny's community. Anybody, if
:12:39. > :12:41.you... Internationally. And there are also people here and around the
:12:42. > :12:45.world who recognise that the IRA was a terrorist organisation, there are
:12:46. > :12:48.people here who have suffered as a result of IRA terrorism. There are
:12:49. > :12:52.people who are suffering the loss of limbs and all sorts of mental...
:12:53. > :12:56.Sorry, if you would just let me finish! The IRA murdered people in
:12:57. > :13:00.the Roman Catholic community as well. In fact, the IRA murdered more
:13:01. > :13:09.Roman Catholics and British army ever did. No, they did not. Several
:13:10. > :13:14.hundred were murdered by the IRA. And yet you are here defending them.
:13:15. > :13:23.It doesn't change the nature of the conflict. It doesn't change the
:13:24. > :13:27.fact... The fact that you support unionism, which for 50 years
:13:28. > :13:32.discriminated against my community and which led to the conflict in
:13:33. > :13:37.1969 and 1970. People had curfews, shot dead demonstrators, civil
:13:38. > :13:46.rights demonstrators in 1972, tortured prisoners. That was... So
:13:47. > :13:49.do not give me the stuff come this stuff about terrorism. Your
:13:50. > :13:56.community, your government that you supported, down the years did this
:13:57. > :13:59.to one side of virginity. Now, let's leave that behind and let's get on
:14:00. > :14:06.and build the future, which allows people from the Loyalist -- one side
:14:07. > :14:09.of the community. Let's allow people from the Nationalist side to tell
:14:10. > :14:19.her story. You would be happy with the Michael Vaughan freedom fighter
:14:20. > :14:23.bid. You would be happy with public money, if the big suggested he was a
:14:24. > :14:29.Protestant defender, you be happy with public money? If it was
:14:30. > :14:33.culturally worthy, yes. Would it be? I do not know until it is ready. I
:14:34. > :14:37.am prepared to read anything, and I do read quite a bit. So I would be
:14:38. > :14:42.prepared for any of those Loyalist paramilitaries to rate their story
:14:43. > :14:48.and we have to accept it. I cannot let the other point pass. I think it
:14:49. > :14:56.is side that Danny Morrison is still coming on here, in the Euro 2016,
:14:57. > :15:07.and trying to justify 30, 40 years of IRA butchery, slaughter, murder
:15:08. > :15:22.and mayhem. The number of people who work... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER.
:15:23. > :15:32.Who was Denis Donaldson collude in with? Your comrades? Collusion is
:15:33. > :15:43.part of the history of the higher rate down through the years. -- IRA.
:15:44. > :15:50.He was only allowed to publish seven pages of a huge document. When Gerry
:15:51. > :15:56.Adams can't remember being in the IRA, the chances of getting to the
:15:57. > :16:05.truth are pretty slim. When Martin McGuinness won't answer questions...
:16:06. > :16:08.Totally irrelevant to the history of unionism, collusion, murder,
:16:09. > :16:14.discrimination and murder in this state. How do we get past this
:16:15. > :16:21.Christmas you are working in government with Sinn Fein. You work
:16:22. > :16:28.in government with them. Former IRA men. Young people vote for them. I
:16:29. > :16:33.am elected to the Assembly. And they are elected? I don't understand that
:16:34. > :16:37.and I deplore that and it is a fact and I have to accept is but I say
:16:38. > :16:41.this, we don't want to see another generation coming up in this country
:16:42. > :16:47.where young people end up in prison, it behind bars, losing their lives
:16:48. > :16:50.but that sort of propaganda which is pure republican propaganda,
:16:51. > :16:53.following an IRA Sinn Fein narrative, that is the sort of
:16:54. > :16:58.material that would encourage people in that direction. The publishers
:16:59. > :17:06.which neither. Well, he might. -- the publishers would deny that. The
:17:07. > :17:12.Arts Council hadn't even read it. Let's look at what the Arts Council
:17:13. > :17:25.to the Nolan show tonight. A total of ?5,116 was awarded towards the
:17:26. > :17:29.Bobby Sands but... -- book. Interestingly enough when I spoke to
:17:30. > :17:32.the Arts Council -- console this morning because I rang them and I
:17:33. > :17:36.got the figures with the amount of money involved, a modest sum of
:17:37. > :17:44.money but they didn't even know there was a Gerry Adams section at
:17:45. > :17:49.the end of it when they signed off. Nelson... What about a bug that
:17:50. > :17:52.represented the National community? -- nationalist. There is a
:17:53. > :17:58.distinction between constitutional nationalists and the sort of
:17:59. > :18:05.republican militant doesn't that you have defended over the years. You
:18:06. > :18:10.defend the UVF in 1912 about illegally imported arms from
:18:11. > :18:19.Germany, would you defend that? Very simply this. At that point in
:18:20. > :18:33.time,... Many people were murdered by the IRA, UVF. In 1912. There is a
:18:34. > :18:38.big difference between what happened in 1912 and planting bombs on buses
:18:39. > :18:42.trying to blow up school children on buses firing rockets at a primary
:18:43. > :18:45.school in my own constituency. That is the sort of thing that the
:18:46. > :18:54.organisation that you have defended as Don through the years. A rebel
:18:55. > :19:00.was fired through country house. ... Rifle. I don't defend that sort of
:19:01. > :19:04.thing. You down through the years have defended that. Gerry Adams has
:19:05. > :19:09.defended IRA terrorism, do you defend that sort of thing? Do you
:19:10. > :19:14.think it is right? I believe the IRA campaign was legitimate. It was
:19:15. > :19:25.legitimate to build bombs on school bus? You are very selective. On the
:19:26. > :19:32.radio this morning, you turned round and you said to me, this morning,
:19:33. > :19:36.that the IRA had guns in August 1969 when the Falls Road was burned down.
:19:37. > :19:42.Did nine-year-old Patrick Rooney have a gun when the RUC shot him
:19:43. > :19:48.dead? Of course not. Whenever a police officer in London was brought
:19:49. > :19:53.across to investigate, the RUC close ranks and wouldn't cooperate. A
:19:54. > :19:59.nine-year-old kid, this was before the Provisional IRA was formed, a
:20:00. > :20:03.nine-year-old getting shot dead in flats. The RUC did that. What effect
:20:04. > :20:07.would that have only people who live around there, that there was no
:20:08. > :20:14.justice? Of course they would be angry. Of course they rise. Can you
:20:15. > :20:19.understand that? I can see the anger. Can you understand the hurt
:20:20. > :20:23.when a nine-year-old child gets scaled within a community? I can
:20:24. > :20:35.understand anger when a child gets killed. ... Killed. By everybody.
:20:36. > :20:42.Subsequently by everybody. I will explain it and put it in context.
:20:43. > :20:51.The point is, I believe the response from the IRA was legitimate.
:20:52. > :20:55.Appalling. Girl in the black hair, go ahead. Nelson Mandela went to
:20:56. > :20:59.jail for most of his life from the same reason and he became a hero for
:21:00. > :21:05.it I was there in 69 when the war started outside my door. It burned
:21:06. > :21:13.us out our house, the B specials, I was eight old. We were refugees and
:21:14. > :21:18.will put into schools for sleep. You started it. So you expect us to sit
:21:19. > :21:26.and there and take it, I don't think so. A Protestant person was put out
:21:27. > :21:33.of a house in Ardoyne. What is your first name? Anna. These discussions
:21:34. > :21:38.have happened before on programmes like this, but where I think we are
:21:39. > :21:43.wrapped in 2016 is understanding where do we go from here? Do we
:21:44. > :21:48.listen to each other stories? Does something, but of the stories? How
:21:49. > :21:55.we got a better understanding? Can you understand his anger? Money was
:21:56. > :22:03.spent on Matt Burke this meant a lot of money on Twaddell Avenue -- that
:22:04. > :22:16.book. Parades, bonfires, not a word said about it from you. APPLAUSE.
:22:17. > :22:26.Thank God, despite Nelson's attempt to airbrush history, Derry City, one
:22:27. > :22:32.man, one vote, definitely not. What happened on bloody Sunday, my people
:22:33. > :22:36.that you would revere and hold in high esteem, the UDR and the RUC, in
:22:37. > :22:46.my eyes are terrorists. You classified one of my heroes as a
:22:47. > :22:54.terrorist. Definitely not. APPLAUSE. What you are using here... You are
:22:55. > :23:00.trying to censor the republican story. He sacrificed his life for so
:23:01. > :23:04.many days. No one is talking about not publishing it but should public
:23:05. > :23:13.money go towards it? That is the question. Public money has sponsored
:23:14. > :23:18.many areas of art. Bobby Niblock's plate was based on two X UVF
:23:19. > :23:22.prisoners who came out of jail and one was dying of cancer and that was
:23:23. > :23:33.sponsored by the Arts Council. The fact is there are artforms which
:23:34. > :23:37.enabled... You're almost incapable of waiting for someone answers a
:23:38. > :23:43.question. Let's get back to that. There are many artforms, literary
:23:44. > :23:47.expression, plays, books, they enable people to explore issues,
:23:48. > :23:50.consider them, but that sort of propaganda in the format but it is
:23:51. > :23:55.done, the narrative that's been adopted is not in anyway consider,
:23:56. > :24:00.it is pure republican propaganda. I will have to rush. In the baseball
:24:01. > :24:04.cap, go ahead. I think the guy that said about Belfast met, it was a
:24:05. > :24:07.really good point, putting money into cross community, bringing stuff
:24:08. > :24:17.up like this, we will not go forward, the country will not go
:24:18. > :24:20.forward. APPLAUSE. If Bobby Sands was a freedom fighter, Danny
:24:21. > :24:25.Morrison, whose freedom is he fighting for? He was fighting for
:24:26. > :24:30.the freedom of his country. Nelson was fighting for that. Did he
:24:31. > :24:34.achieve it? The unionist community had no problem with a united Ireland
:24:35. > :24:38.as long as they were in control, and when the extension of the franchise
:24:39. > :24:44.came about in 1885, that is when we found that the Ulster Unionist
:24:45. > :24:49.Council organised around separate... Was anything achieved? He doesn't
:24:50. > :24:53.understand the conditions he was living in. He wasn't allowed to
:24:54. > :25:00.exercise, radio, clothes, the cut of the light, he wasn't allowed to go
:25:01. > :25:04.to the toilet. He wasn't allowed a letter, a pen, tobacco. And yet
:25:05. > :25:08.after the hunger strike, British Government can see that everything,
:25:09. > :25:14.everything that those men died for and when I went into the H blocks in
:25:15. > :25:18.the 1990s I had 25 demands. They give everything away... One more
:25:19. > :25:26.point and then we have to make move on. Originally, in 1972, they
:25:27. > :25:29.conceded political studies, called special categories studies. ...
:25:30. > :25:36.Starters. They caused the problem in the deal. No excuse. There is no
:25:37. > :25:40.excuse for 30 years of slaughter and butchery by the IRA and the best you
:25:41. > :25:47.can do will in no way ever justify what they did. The best will
:25:48. > :25:49.never... Would you ever concede that there was discrimination and
:25:50. > :25:58.equality, will you ever concede that? It depended where you live. I
:25:59. > :26:02.lived in North Belfast that might not have been much different from
:26:03. > :26:07.yours. People in the Shankill work living under the same conditions. I
:26:08. > :26:17.wouldn't be going round like you and maybe others, defending the IRA,...
:26:18. > :26:20.I guess as we wrap this up, the question is as I said at the
:26:21. > :26:23.beginning of this dudgeon, where do we go from all this? Would we go
:26:24. > :26:30.from all this anger and disagreement as a society? These two gentlemen at
:26:31. > :26:33.this guest tonight represent some of the opposing views in Northern
:26:34. > :26:36.Ireland, so where do we go from here? Give them a round of applause,
:26:37. > :26:40.ladies and gentlemen. APPLAUSE. Don't forget we keep the debates
:26:41. > :26:44.going on the Nolan Show on BBC Radio Ulster,
:26:45. > :27:07.weekdays from 9 to 10.30am. It's 9am, if they Nolan show on BBC
:27:08. > :27:13.Radio Ulster... I couldn't believe how lazy and how dirty they were.
:27:14. > :27:19.That is absolutely disgraceful and inflammatory language. You don't
:27:20. > :27:23.even know what is going on around you. You've got to pinch yourself
:27:24. > :27:25.this morning when you think that Northern Ireland is down national
:27:26. > :27:37.news because of a cake. APPLAUSE. Thank you. We aren't the
:27:38. > :27:40.radio show. Is it time to quit
:27:41. > :27:44.the European Union or stay put? June 23 is the referendum date,
:27:45. > :28:02.but the debate is already Isn't dead, Sammy Wilson? You want
:28:03. > :28:09.us out of this. -- isn't it. I have always taken this view for many
:28:10. > :28:13.reasons. People like me -- elect me to Westminster and yet so many of
:28:14. > :28:18.the laws which affect them on a day-to-day basis, tax, VAT,
:28:19. > :28:23.regulations, rules that they have to obey, but decided that Westminster
:28:24. > :28:27.but decided in Brussels by people who are not elected, not
:28:28. > :28:32.accountable, who can't be scrutinised and those laws cannot be
:28:33. > :28:37.changed. It has an effect, a wider effect on many parts of our society.
:28:38. > :28:47.Secondly of course, money which you pay as taxpayers goes into European
:28:48. > :28:50.coppers. To be wasted. ?10 billion a year on things like subsidising
:28:51. > :28:55.people to breed rabbits. I'd think rabbits need that to be subdivided
:28:56. > :29:03.to breed. Order to standardise the flushing of toilets. Money thrown
:29:04. > :29:08.into the bog I suppose you could say and yet every year, while we have
:29:09. > :29:13.austerity, ?10 billion of taxpayers money is thrown into the European
:29:14. > :29:17.project and of course on top of that, we don't have control of our
:29:18. > :29:21.borders, we don't have control of who comes into our country, who
:29:22. > :29:27.stays in our country. Hell of a suite of this, I'll tell you. Those
:29:28. > :29:32.are all the reason. Enough to... By not telling as you have no idea, no
:29:33. > :29:35.idea how we would rewrite trading agreements with Europe, will Loftus
:29:36. > :29:43.Road from scratch, wouldn't we? It is not a leap into the dark, if it
:29:44. > :29:47.was... If it was a leap into the dark, there is a nice big fat
:29:48. > :29:52.cushion that will land on the old with a ?10 billion paid every year
:29:53. > :29:57.into the European Union. Can you guarantee that to farmers? You have
:29:58. > :30:02.no idea what farmers would get? We do know that we paid ?10 billion in
:30:03. > :30:08.more than we get out at the European Union, that is money lost to our
:30:09. > :30:10.exchequer and as far as the trade agreements are concerned, why
:30:11. > :30:15.wouldn't Europe want to keep trade agreements with those?
:30:16. > :30:28.You do not know. They might put a lady on it. Why? We sell less goods
:30:29. > :30:31.to them than we do to ours. That is what happens. When countries like
:30:32. > :30:36.Norway and subtle, which are not part of the EU, to come to trading
:30:37. > :30:40.agreements with the EU, they have to pay into the EU, have to accept the
:30:41. > :30:44.regulations of the EU and they have no place at the top table. It is an
:30:45. > :30:51.illusion to believe you can leave and not be subject to any
:30:52. > :30:54.regulations. The difference is we have an ?87 billion trade deficit
:30:55. > :30:58.with the EU. Why would they want to put up trade barriers against
:30:59. > :31:04.Britain? Because they will not give you access. They sell more goods to
:31:05. > :31:07.us than we do to them. It is to their advantage to have the free
:31:08. > :31:11.trade. There are billions of pounds worth of goods. 2.6 billion traded
:31:12. > :31:16.from Northern Ireland into the EU. One in eight jobs related to trade
:31:17. > :31:20.with the EU in Northern Ireland. Why would we get access to that single
:31:21. > :31:29.market if we did not abide by the regulations? One second! One second!
:31:30. > :31:32.Do not start! This has been ticking off, obviously, across the water as
:31:33. > :31:42.well, because Boris Johnson and David Cameron, they, in the same
:31:43. > :31:46.party who were calling each other friends, but what has played out in
:31:47. > :31:55.public over the last few days, it is kicking off.
:31:56. > :32:02.I will go to Parliament and propose that the British people decide our
:32:03. > :32:09.future in Europe. The last thing I wanted was to go against David
:32:10. > :32:17.Cameron or the government. # Should I stay or should I go?.
:32:18. > :32:21.# My right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, could you explain to
:32:22. > :32:28.the house and to the country in exactly what we this deal returns
:32:29. > :32:31.sovereignty? It means that the ratchet of the European Court taking
:32:32. > :32:40.power away from this country cannot happen in future.
:32:41. > :32:45.Explain to people, make this real, as to how it will affect their
:32:46. > :32:50.lives. I will tell you what, I reckon this discussion can be very
:32:51. > :32:54.quick switch off. If we go or stay? If we go, it is a leap in the dark,
:32:55. > :32:57.and I know we have been using a similar questions to ask all the
:32:58. > :33:02.ministers what the plan B years and it is quite clear that there is not
:33:03. > :33:06.one. You talk about the UK's deficit and it is probably fair to say that
:33:07. > :33:09.the UK is a net contributor, but that money is not coming here if it
:33:10. > :33:13.is being saved, it is very clear the Conservative Government have no
:33:14. > :33:16.interest in spending any more money in Northern Ireland than they have
:33:17. > :33:21.to. Northern Ireland's nominal portion of that would be about 400
:33:22. > :33:24.million. We get that back just in structural funds and agricultural
:33:25. > :33:28.funds alone, not even including the trade boost, the modernising funds,
:33:29. > :33:33.the peace funds, but it is not just about the cash, and believe me it is
:33:34. > :33:38.considerably better for us to be in the European Union. It is about
:33:39. > :33:42.values, it is about joint endeavour, it is about peace building. Europe
:33:43. > :33:45.was the greatest conflict resolution project in the history of the world.
:33:46. > :33:50.Ten years after the devastation of the Second World War, the Treaty of
:33:51. > :33:54.Rome, and there has not been conflict substantially in Europe
:33:55. > :33:58.since. First of all, if we make a contribution of ?10 billion per year
:33:59. > :34:02.to the the EU, is that money were to come back to the United Kingdom,
:34:03. > :34:07.that would be more money to spend on services in Northern Ireland and in
:34:08. > :34:10.the rest of the United Kingdom. And secondly, it is nonsense about the
:34:11. > :34:14.EU bringing peace in Europe. The EU did not bring peace, Natal brought
:34:15. > :34:18.peace in Europe. It was the American presence in Europe that ensured
:34:19. > :34:23.peace. Europe did not even have an army to bring MEPs. You do not need
:34:24. > :34:29.an army to bring peace! You do. -- to bring peace. Clearly you do. If
:34:30. > :34:33.you look at the recent conflicts which have developed in Europe
:34:34. > :34:38.recently, most of them have been caused as a result of the tensions
:34:39. > :34:42.caused by straitjackets of European policies and the latest one, of
:34:43. > :34:48.course, poor Greece is now living... So we break it up and everybody goes
:34:49. > :34:52.into their shells? There is an immigration problem because the EU
:34:53. > :34:58.opened its borders. The SDLP is a Nationalist party, do not believe in
:34:59. > :35:01.national sovereignty? No, we are internationalists. We make many
:35:02. > :35:07.decisions at the local, and regional, level and are involved in
:35:08. > :35:10.every Parliament that has a say but international as is the fight that
:35:11. > :35:12.there are a lot of things, no matter how much decisions you do locally,
:35:13. > :35:16.climate change, refugee issues, crime, they do not stop at the
:35:17. > :35:21.border. So as a Nationalist party we say it would be devastating... It
:35:22. > :35:25.would be devastating for North -South relations.
:35:26. > :35:33.THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER it would also be devastating for Unionists.
:35:34. > :35:37.If the UK leaps... Look at the problems we have the economy at the
:35:38. > :35:40.moment. You can guarantee the Scots will leave the union and the union
:35:41. > :35:44.will break up if we leave the EU. You're not shouting for the people
:35:45. > :35:46.of Northern Ireland, because economic liberal be devastated by
:35:47. > :35:51.the floss and you're clearly not shouting for the union either.
:35:52. > :35:54.Vernon's party was guilty of this is. I heard all of these the
:35:55. > :35:59.Enlightenment is when Vernon's party was trying to drag us into the euro.
:36:00. > :36:02.Nobody would trade with us, we would have a different currency,
:36:03. > :36:05.investment would dry up. What happened in the meantime question we
:36:06. > :36:09.stayed out of the euro and all the predictions that were made... All
:36:10. > :36:17.the predictions... They never came true. Let Vernon Street. We stayed
:36:18. > :36:23.out of the euro for very good reasons and what we have done... You
:36:24. > :36:28.tried to drag us in. We kept us vote of the Euro! The serious point about
:36:29. > :36:31.it, though, is that we have always said, and the Prime Minister to be
:36:32. > :36:35.fair, the current deal that he has got, what we do is we get what is in
:36:36. > :36:38.the benefits for our country from the European Union, we stay in the
:36:39. > :36:43.union because it is a benefit and we keep out of the beds would not want
:36:44. > :36:50.to be in. I want to go to truffles. Hello, Roger. It is great to be on
:36:51. > :36:54.the show. -- Brussels. If you get your way, there will be border
:36:55. > :36:59.patrols! Border patrols! On the Irish border! That is going to be
:37:00. > :37:06.the next. Come on, Stephen, there was three movement -- there was free
:37:07. > :37:10.movement across that border before it was amended and after we have
:37:11. > :37:19.left. You can guarantee that, can you? I cannot personally guarantee
:37:20. > :37:22.it, because I am only an MEP, but there was before, there will be
:37:23. > :37:25.again, the British government would be absolutely committed to that
:37:26. > :37:30.process, and to free trade across the border, so frankly that is a red
:37:31. > :37:34.herring. Can I tell you how it is not a red herring? You're one of the
:37:35. > :37:38.people who boasts about the controls that you will be able to implement
:37:39. > :37:42.on immigration. So if you're actually not going to console
:37:43. > :37:47.borders, how are you going to stamp down on immigration? We're only
:37:48. > :37:50.talking, I present, about the border between Northern Ireland and the
:37:51. > :37:53.public. We will have border control around the rest the country, and
:37:54. > :37:57.Ireland, I am sure, because of the outside Schengen, the Republic will
:37:58. > :38:02.want to make its own appropriate arrangements to control its own
:38:03. > :38:04.borders. Maybe it is just me being completely insane here, but if
:38:05. > :38:11.somebody therefore wants to gain entry to the United Kingdom, the
:38:12. > :38:15.Europe, the flight to Dublin and then they take the train up to
:38:16. > :38:21.Northern Ireland. Has that not crossed mine?! Well... It has
:38:22. > :38:27.crossed my mind now you have mentioned that...
:38:28. > :38:37.CHEERING So on reflection, do you need border
:38:38. > :38:42.patrols? Stephen, that is nonsense. Does that Irish Republic not control
:38:43. > :38:45.its borders? Of course it does. Before we joined the European Union,
:38:46. > :38:51.we had common travel arrangements with the Irish Republic. Before
:38:52. > :38:55.Schengen and all the other controls, we had a common travel arrangement
:38:56. > :38:58.with the Irish Republic. Since we have you joined the European Union,
:38:59. > :39:07.those controls have still been in place. The Irish Republic is not a
:39:08. > :39:14.conduit at present... But there cannot be... Nobody has argued it is
:39:15. > :39:21.a conduit at present for illegal immigration into the rest of the
:39:22. > :39:26.united kingdom. Let's... Let's let Roger speak. One second! Stephen,
:39:27. > :39:30.your resume that the Irish Republic does not control its borders. I do
:39:31. > :39:32.not think that is the case and I think appropriate arrangements can
:39:33. > :39:37.well be made between Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom and the
:39:38. > :39:40.Republic of Ireland so that we can maintain that free movement across
:39:41. > :39:48.that border, and of course free trade across that order as well. Go
:39:49. > :39:53.on, Claire. This leads to the other issue of trade. We have heard all of
:39:54. > :39:56.this stuff, and of course Vernon immediately brings it back to Norway
:39:57. > :40:00.and Switzerland, which urges more countries with a sort of quasi-for
:40:01. > :40:05.the membership relationship with the EU. All around the world, there are
:40:06. > :40:08.countries which trade with Europe, and the idea that you have to be in
:40:09. > :40:13.the single market to trade but it is frankly absurd. OK, Roger, there is
:40:14. > :40:18.a delay, so hold on for a second. You have not outlined how those...
:40:19. > :40:21.Those trade agreements would take years to come into place, especially
:40:22. > :40:26.while we are trying to prepare ourselves. Add in terms of the hold
:40:27. > :40:31.on, Roger! THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER
:40:32. > :40:37.There are 30,000 plus people living here who are the backbone of many
:40:38. > :40:40.industry here, it is back on whether they have contribute and helped to
:40:41. > :40:42.grow our economy. What about 1 million British people who live in
:40:43. > :40:48.Spain? What happens to them, there is no answer. Let's deal with trade
:40:49. > :40:57.issue. There is an answer! Roger, stop! If he does not stop, M Doctor
:40:58. > :41:01.himself! I have got a couple of points, you talk about the tenderly
:41:02. > :41:05.impenetrable fave, while proving at Stormont we can go to remain ?4 very
:41:06. > :41:11.quickly without any results. -- you talk about the ?8 billion. And there
:41:12. > :41:14.is uncertainty about jobs in Northern Ireland, is it a good thing
:41:15. > :41:16.to provide more uncertainty to big companies that could provide jobs
:41:17. > :41:21.here for the people of Northern Ireland? That is a question for
:41:22. > :41:27.Sammy, and before we put it to you, let's hear, for example, from Nigel
:41:28. > :41:32.Smith, from the CBI, where are you, Nigel? Do you think it would be in
:41:33. > :41:37.the interests of business to leave the EU? The CBI in 2013 dead and
:41:38. > :41:41.enormous piece of work, I have got it with me this evening, across the
:41:42. > :41:44.UK about 80% of members say which is staying with any reformed European
:41:45. > :41:48.Union. From a Northern Rail in perspective, the three big issues
:41:49. > :41:54.are that we have a very big agri- food sector, we explored about 57%
:41:55. > :41:59.to Europe, about 45% for the UK, and foreign direct investment. We are on
:42:00. > :42:03.the cusp of winning any lower corporation tax, having been put
:42:04. > :42:07.into to transform the economy. All the research indicates that the UK,
:42:08. > :42:11.which is the most successful, 75% of those invested want to be part of
:42:12. > :42:14.the single market. It is more important than corporation tax. We
:42:15. > :42:19.could end up throwing up benefits there. There is one of the voices of
:42:20. > :42:22.business. Is it not strange that you have the DUP economy minister, the
:42:23. > :42:28.DUP first Minister going against the voices of the business community?
:42:29. > :42:30.We're not going against the voices of the business Kennedy because
:42:31. > :42:33.David Cameron wrote a letter and tried to get the business community
:42:34. > :42:36.to sign up to it and two thirds of the business community would not
:42:37. > :42:39.sign up to it, although one third signed up, and was published only
:42:40. > :42:47.the other day. So there is not unanimity. You would reflect that,
:42:48. > :42:54.you are businessman as well. If you look at what to do a set, JCB,... He
:42:55. > :42:57.is backing you, stop it! I cannot understand is politics of fear we
:42:58. > :43:02.are hearing, the black holes and everything. I believe in positive
:43:03. > :43:07.politics. The positive politics is that if we did it on a local basis,
:43:08. > :43:10.if we get out of Europe, the 250 million per year that we have to set
:43:11. > :43:14.aside for the corporation tax, we would not need to do it any more.
:43:15. > :43:19.That is because of European eels. That is immediately freed up and
:43:20. > :43:24.that is 250 million over the first five years.
:43:25. > :43:30.The important thing is that is not scaremongering to point out, I do
:43:31. > :43:34.not think, what are the risks and uncertainties that would be created
:43:35. > :43:38.if we were to come out of the EU. The risk for business, as I have
:43:39. > :43:43.said, this huge Malia Obama of trade that goes on between Northern
:43:44. > :43:49.Ireland and the EU... I want to hear from a farmer, William Taylor. Go
:43:50. > :43:52.on. From the farming community's perspective, we would like to make
:43:53. > :43:57.it clear, and organisation's point of view, that we are on the plus per
:43:58. > :44:03.side of wanting to stay in the EU. Simply because the history of the
:44:04. > :44:08.Westminster successor governments does not board well for farmers. If
:44:09. > :44:12.anybody remembers Margaret Beckett's solely comment, who worries about
:44:13. > :44:20.farmers, the world is awash with food. Sorry, we are running out of
:44:21. > :44:23.time. First of, there was agriculture is aboard before we ever
:44:24. > :44:29.went into the EU. Secondly... No guarantees! And as a farmer you will
:44:30. > :44:32.know that the EU subsidy scheme is changing and will actually take
:44:33. > :44:35.money out of agriculture in Western Europe and put it into eastern
:44:36. > :44:40.Europe. So farmers have a very uncertain future in Europe. Not a
:44:41. > :44:42.certain future. We are out of time against us get our guests a round of
:44:43. > :44:47.applause! to listen to one of
:44:48. > :44:51.the most up and coming artists I was listening to this guy
:44:52. > :45:03.in rehearsals earlier on today He recently supported
:45:04. > :45:10.Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran, and we can announce,
:45:11. > :45:13.exclusively here on Nolan Live, that he will be playing
:45:14. > :45:15.his first ever headline gig His debut album Bitter Pill has
:45:16. > :45:19.already gone platinum in Ireland, and is released in
:45:20. > :45:27.the UK on 11th March. With his breakthrough
:45:28. > :45:29.hit The Book Of Love, # The book of love
:45:30. > :45:58.is long and boring. # It's full of charts
:45:59. > :46:06.and facts and figures. # In fact that's where
:46:07. > :46:40.music comes from. # The book of love
:46:41. > :47:39.is long and boring. # It's full of flowers
:47:40. > :47:53.and heart-shaped boxes. # And things we're
:47:54. > :47:55.all too young to know. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful,
:47:56. > :48:59.thank you. Just a word of warning that some
:49:00. > :49:03.of you may find some of the details Aodhan Woods was just 17
:49:04. > :49:10.when he was tortured and sexually assaulted by two people he called
:49:11. > :49:12.friends two years ago. His attackers were jailed this week
:49:13. > :49:15.and he has bravely waived his right to anonymity to talk
:49:16. > :49:32.about the ordeal he suffered. Thank you for coming in. Thank you.
:49:33. > :49:37.These were friends of yours? Yeah, I would call them my best friends. Can
:49:38. > :49:42.you to take us back to then? What did you think you're going to the
:49:43. > :49:47.house for? I was going to the house to give them the money for drugs
:49:48. > :49:51.that they forced me to sell which obviously didn't sell enough drugs,
:49:52. > :49:56.so when I entered the flat it felt like something bad was going on. But
:49:57. > :50:00.I didn't think that was going to happen because they were my best
:50:01. > :50:06.friends. I had known one of them two years and one of them for a year.
:50:07. > :50:09.When I got them, they threw me down onto the sofa, locked me in the
:50:10. > :50:14.cupboard, that pillow cases of my head and sexually assaulted me as
:50:15. > :50:21.well as holding knives to my throat and putting cigarettes out on me.
:50:22. > :50:24.What were they saying to you? One of them said he was going to kill me
:50:25. > :50:27.and I will not leave the flat again, he knows people who would dispose of
:50:28. > :50:34.my body and I deserved everything I got. What confuses me immediately if
:50:35. > :50:41.these were two of your best friends? Yeah. So that must have really...
:50:42. > :50:45.Were you high on drugs at the time? When I entered the flat they made me
:50:46. > :50:54.take drugs, yes, so I was pretty high. So your two best friends are
:50:55. > :50:57.sexually assaulting you, burning cigarettes into your body, how are
:50:58. > :51:02.you trying to process that? What is happening in your head? The whole
:51:03. > :51:07.time I was completely numb. I was overwhelmed. I just couldn't imagine
:51:08. > :51:14.anything like that happening. I was shocked, I really was, I just didn't
:51:15. > :51:20.see that coming. How long did they keep you in the cupboard? It must
:51:21. > :51:26.have been about ten, 15 minutes but it felt like an eternity. And they
:51:27. > :51:33.had tidied up? Yes and put pillowcases over my head -- tide you
:51:34. > :51:36.up. Wrapped me up with a belt so I couldn't move. Presume you link --
:51:37. > :51:41.presumably were pleading with them to stop? I tried my best to get them
:51:42. > :51:45.away from me and let them lead the flat, but it wasn't happening. What
:51:46. > :51:49.was happening to you when you said stop? I got hit. They didn't say
:51:50. > :51:54.anything, just hit me. Were they trying to justify it in their head?
:51:55. > :51:58.What were they telling you when they were doing at? Scaring me into
:51:59. > :52:01.selling more drugs for them because they said they didn't sell the drugs
:52:02. > :52:10.again, it would all happen to me again. -- if I didn't sell the drugs
:52:11. > :52:15.again. Do you know, you look so vulnerable, you really do, which
:52:16. > :52:24.makes it even more extraordinary that you're speaking out about this.
:52:25. > :52:32.This was male on male rape? Yes. Not very many meals is big about this,
:52:33. > :52:36.why did you choose to do so? Because of what you said, but many males
:52:37. > :52:41.speak out about it and I want to show that if I speak out about it
:52:42. > :52:53.there as well, I am not doing it for myself. APPLAUSE.
:52:54. > :53:06.After this had happened, after they had raped you, they untied you? What
:53:07. > :53:10.happens when they have untied you? I was too scared to try to get away
:53:11. > :53:13.from them at this point but one of them left the flat. I don't know
:53:14. > :53:23.where he actually went, I stayed with the other one and I didn't want
:53:24. > :53:25.to leave, I said, I can't leave and I was too scared to try and even
:53:26. > :53:29.attempts so I just stayed with them. Is it true they should go hand?
:53:30. > :53:34.Yeah, they shook my hand up there and had the cheek to tell me they
:53:35. > :53:42.were still my friends. ... Shook your hand. What did they say? They
:53:43. > :53:45.said was everything OK and I thought to myself, there were no mate of
:53:46. > :53:51.mine. And you went to the police? Next morning. I went down to a
:53:52. > :53:55.friend of mine's house and she told me to go round to the house so she
:53:56. > :54:05.took me around and I told my mum about it. My mum rang the police for
:54:06. > :54:13.me. Is it embarrassing to talk about it? Not at all, no. I'm wondering,
:54:14. > :54:16.when you go through a court process, I guess part of the reason why some
:54:17. > :54:23.people don't come forward is they find it might be humiliating,
:54:24. > :54:26.talking about sexual assault, what was your mindset? I totally
:54:27. > :54:33.understand why people would find it embarrassing, but I just didn't. I
:54:34. > :54:36.was so open about it. They said the reasons they were doing it was
:54:37. > :54:47.because I would be too afraid to tell anyone so I told people just to
:54:48. > :54:54.show that I am not afraid. You know, there is... There is absolutely,
:54:55. > :54:59.obviously no justification in this world for what they did to you and
:55:00. > :55:04.that is not remotely what I am at the next question, but I am sitting
:55:05. > :55:12.here looking at a vulnerable young man and I'm thinking to myself, why
:55:13. > :55:17.were you in that very dodgy, murky underworld of drugs in the first
:55:18. > :55:21.place? How did you let yourself get into that? And that is nothing to do
:55:22. > :55:27.with you being assaulted in this vicious way. I didn't really choose
:55:28. > :55:30.to be involved in it, it's just my friends, friends at the time, they
:55:31. > :55:33.got into the wrong crowd which led me to be in the wrong crowd because
:55:34. > :55:37.I was always with them and I guess that is white and managed to get
:55:38. > :55:45.myself into it. Yeah, and then you are trapped? Yeah, couldn't get out,
:55:46. > :55:48.because it was so... They pressured me, I couldn't go to anyone and I
:55:49. > :55:54.had to sell the drugs for them. It is a story in itself this, the
:55:55. > :56:00.pressured, once you income of the pressure they put on you. Once you
:56:01. > :56:04.are in it is hard to get out. What is the psychological impact of this,
:56:05. > :56:09.do you get flashbacks? Yeah, well, these days I don't get many
:56:10. > :56:14.flashbacks, but they were wild at the start, so vivid I would even
:56:15. > :56:18.sometimes believe I was still back in that fight. I can't go into
:56:19. > :56:23.confined spaces any more like small cupboards, that is understandable. A
:56:24. > :56:26.few people said to me that is the normal reaction if they have been
:56:27. > :56:33.locked in a cupboard like that. And how does the PTSD which you suffer
:56:34. > :56:37.from actually work? How does it manifest itself? During a nightmare
:56:38. > :56:45.or can it be during the day that you see the scenes again? Any time. I
:56:46. > :56:49.could be sitting talking to you right now and it could come out of
:56:50. > :56:56.nowhere. It is very scary because I never expect it to happen and it
:56:57. > :57:04.just takes over me and it is hard to explain, it really is, it is not
:57:05. > :57:07.good. Have they gone away? Yeah, yeah, I still get them from time to
:57:08. > :57:11.time but they are not as vivid as they were because I try my best to
:57:12. > :57:17.forget about what happened and I guess that helps me with preventing
:57:18. > :57:25.any flashbacks. I think it's extraordinary that you have gone
:57:26. > :57:30.public with this. I really do. You're going to be OK, and you?
:57:31. > :57:34.You've got quite an optimistic outlook on life now, don't you? Of
:57:35. > :57:47.course, I don't let anyone drag me down. APPLAUSE. I know that some of
:57:48. > :57:48.you watching this might have been affected by this.
:57:49. > :57:51.And if you've been affected in any way by Aodhan's story
:57:52. > :57:53.and would like details of organisations which offer advice
:57:54. > :57:59.and support, go online to bbc.co.uk/actionline.
:58:00. > :58:15.Thank you so much for coming in. Give him a round of applause, ladies
:58:16. > :58:19.and gentlemen. APPLAUSE. Wow. I think among all the political
:58:20. > :58:24.debates that we do, one of the reasons for having a show like this
:58:25. > :58:28.is to give a platform to a young man like that, so thanks so much and
:58:29. > :58:32.thank you for watching tonight, we'll be back on BBC Radio Ulster,
:58:33. > :58:34.morning at nine o'clock. I'm about to go on to Twitter and Facebook
:58:35. > :59:03.right now, good night everybody. I've kept what happened to me
:59:04. > :59:07.buried away for 50 years.