:00:07. > :00:10.Arlene Foster says don't let Martin McGuinness be First Minister.
:00:11. > :00:12.Is that the big election issue for you?
:00:13. > :00:14.We're also debating the smoking ban across all hospital grounds.
:00:15. > :00:16.Shaun Ryder, yes, Shaun Ryder, is our special guest.
:00:17. > :00:18.We've also music from Eliza and the Bear.
:00:19. > :00:54.And it's all in front of a live audience.
:00:55. > :00:57.There is the first shot and he is delighted to be on telly.
:00:58. > :01:00.DUP leader Arlene Foster had a blunt message at the weekend.
:01:01. > :01:02.She said vote for her party or Martin McGuinness
:01:03. > :01:05.Is that going to be the big battle ground
:01:06. > :01:09.Is it all going to be about Orange and Green,
:01:10. > :01:25.Is that what is ahead of us? Gregory Campbell? Arlene Foster laid out her
:01:26. > :01:31.vision of the future post the election and she laid out a number
:01:32. > :01:36.of priorities. Investment, very important to get jobs for people. We
:01:37. > :01:39.went through a period of downturn, and massive international downturn
:01:40. > :01:43.but Northern Ireland was the biggest promoter of inward investment in the
:01:44. > :01:48.United Kingdom in that downturn so hopefully now we are coming out of
:01:49. > :01:53.it, we can build on that. Roads, health, education. She knew what she
:01:54. > :01:57.was doing in her speech? Let's have a look for example the lines that
:01:58. > :02:30.with turnout in that speech. What difference would it make? They
:02:31. > :02:34.have got equal power. Well you see, you are singling out one part of her
:02:35. > :02:39.speech. It is not one part, it is various parts. The vast bulk of the
:02:40. > :02:45.speech did not deal with that. The point here is that we had a series
:02:46. > :02:49.of things that we want to promote in terms of building a better future.
:02:50. > :02:54.We also have to face up to the reality that many people will want
:02:55. > :02:58.to know what is the direction of the Government after the Assembly
:02:59. > :03:03.election is over. Healthy with this answer, what is the difference in
:03:04. > :03:07.terms of power between ad First Minister and Deputy First Minister.
:03:08. > :03:12.One can't walk the dog without the permission of the other? You said
:03:13. > :03:16.that on a number of occasions. Every year, hundreds of people get awards
:03:17. > :03:20.from Her Majesty and they get a letter from the First Minister, not
:03:21. > :03:25.both First Minister and get the defenceman, from the First Minister.
:03:26. > :03:31.When Her Majesty came to Stormont, who met her? To congratulate them on
:03:32. > :03:35.her achievement. From the First Minister alone. The powers and
:03:36. > :03:40.deciding policy, what is the difference in power? One of the
:03:41. > :03:47.differences is that the largest party gets to nominate the First
:03:48. > :03:51.Minister and they get to pick of the departmental responsibilities. Let
:03:52. > :03:59.me put it this way, would you like to be the presenter of the
:04:00. > :04:07.second-biggest show in the country? APPLAUSE
:04:08. > :04:11.You knew how you would feel if your only be joint presenter of the
:04:12. > :04:15.bigger show in the country and that is what Arlene Foster is. She is
:04:16. > :04:23.joint First Minister with Martin McGuinness. And fact it is a joint
:04:24. > :04:28.office, people like two persons, neither of which has any power
:04:29. > :04:35.without the other. It is very clear that that is what it is. That is the
:04:36. > :04:40.Belfast agreement, even it provided that the First Minister, as long as
:04:41. > :04:44.there was a Unionist majority would always be a Unionist because they
:04:45. > :04:49.said the First Minister came from the biggest tradition and the deputy
:04:50. > :04:55.from the second tradition. Gregory and the DUP and Sinn Fein at the
:04:56. > :05:01.thing I do is change that to being the biggest party. The reason they
:05:02. > :05:09.doing that... Legislation went through the House of Commons in
:05:10. > :05:14.early 07. Then speak against it, didn't speak against it, had the
:05:15. > :05:15.opportunity to do about and that change the law... No,
:05:16. > :05:20.opportunity to do about and that deliberate ploy. I am telling you,
:05:21. > :05:25.it was a deliberate ploy. I was in the party at the time so I know it
:05:26. > :05:26.was a deliberate ploy by Peter Robinson who thought it
:05:27. > :05:28.was a deliberate ploy by Peter He thought it would be a terribly
:05:29. > :05:32.clever device to He thought it would be a terribly
:05:33. > :05:36.situation where you take the He thought it would be a terribly
:05:37. > :05:38.Minister from the biggest party and then the DUP could say as they said
:05:39. > :05:40.last then the DUP could say as they said
:05:41. > :05:43.or you will get Martin McGuinness. It was conniving... You are saying
:05:44. > :05:51.or you will get Martin McGuinness. that was a discussion within the
:05:52. > :05:56.party? It is inaccurate. Amongst a range of... Jim's
:05:57. > :06:02.party? It is inaccurate. Amongst a walks away for 20 years. He walked
:06:03. > :06:08.away for 20 years and it's a good but everyone else didn't do it
:06:09. > :06:14.likely. The point is... Anybody who says that they cannot act alone is
:06:15. > :06:15.flying in the face every arty because she goes wherever she wants
:06:16. > :06:23.to go as First Minister. because she goes wherever she wants
:06:24. > :06:27.see the election coming up in two months' time, people want to know
:06:28. > :06:35.what is the future like. What other job site? My question tonight, to
:06:36. > :06:39.the actually cared if Arlene is Deputy First Minister First
:06:40. > :06:44.Minister? Does it actually make a difference? In terms of what Harry
:06:45. > :06:49.is going to happen in health and education in this country. The road
:06:50. > :06:55.I drive over everyday. I have told you the difference. The First
:06:56. > :07:00.Minister is the leader of the largest party, they get first pick
:07:01. > :07:04.whatever departments are available I get more departments. Last test that
:07:05. > :07:07.straightaway. If Arlene Foster is the First Minister, what is the
:07:08. > :07:13.first apartments you want to pick. We will decide that for me come to
:07:14. > :07:18.the election. After the vote. That is what happened the last time. Why
:07:19. > :07:23.would anyone decide... But someone deciding now, which way will I go
:07:24. > :07:26.to? They're not going to get a guide to what departments you are going to
:07:27. > :07:32.take so that is not a steer for them. Tell them what your priorities
:07:33. > :07:37.are. They were spelt out last Saturday. None of the BBC reporters
:07:38. > :07:42.turned up. I know there were no cameras there. There were no BBC
:07:43. > :07:49.reporters there. However, be priorities have been spelt out. Not
:07:50. > :07:57.as part of it. What department is your priority after the election.
:07:58. > :08:05.Arlene has spelt out the priority. Hospitals. There is going to be a
:08:06. > :08:09.change. There is a reduction in the number of departments. There will be
:08:10. > :08:14.discussions between the parties. Let's just stop and be back here.
:08:15. > :08:18.You have told us that one of the reasons why it is important, the
:08:19. > :08:21.difference between First Minister and Deputy First Minister is because
:08:22. > :08:24.the First Minister of course has the best decision over what departments
:08:25. > :08:29.they can take. That is that the correct. Help is there understand
:08:30. > :08:36.which department you will take first. Tell all these people. The
:08:37. > :08:44.election campaign hasn't even begun yet. It hasn't even begun yet.
:08:45. > :08:53.Really? That is correct. Nomination day is several days away. Will you
:08:54. > :08:57.tell us before polling day? Tell me this, has any party anywhere in
:08:58. > :09:02.Northern Ireland outlined what their preferred choice of department is?
:09:03. > :09:08.Of course they haven't. You're onto night beating your chest about it.
:09:09. > :09:13.Now I am saying our properties have been spelt out and then we say which
:09:14. > :09:17.are preferred departments and discussions will be held with all
:09:18. > :09:21.the other parties to see how the mechanism will be run and who gets
:09:22. > :09:25.what pick in what order. The discussions I heard with all the
:09:26. > :09:30.other parties, why does it matter who is First Minister and Debbie to
:09:31. > :09:34.First Minister? The First Minister gets first picked. You asked me what
:09:35. > :09:40.the differences. The difference is the biggest party gets the First
:09:41. > :09:44.Minister and as the first pick. Health is so important in this
:09:45. > :09:53.country, we have seen that, Simon Hamilton, many people might think he
:09:54. > :09:57.has done a job doing a good job. Health is our department, you can't
:09:58. > :10:02.take them all. If it is apartment she will fight for? The way the
:10:03. > :10:11.system works... You let another party take health? You could say
:10:12. > :10:17.education. Is that more important than health? All departments have a
:10:18. > :10:27.degree of importance or you can't take them all. What is the first
:10:28. > :10:30.pick going to be? The Deputy First Minister does not get that choice.
:10:31. > :10:35.You asked what the difference was when I've told you. Is there some
:10:36. > :10:37.part of that you don't understand? Do you want to be the presenter of
:10:38. > :10:49.the second-biggest stroll in the country? Is the blood shows that
:10:50. > :10:53.elections here... Is an absolute disgrace to be completely honest
:10:54. > :10:58.with you. For our First Minister, 18 years after the Good Friday
:10:59. > :11:01.agreement, honest endeavours to create reconciliation and human
:11:02. > :11:05.rights to come out and say the biggest issue is stop the other
:11:06. > :11:12.ones. Rather than say let's compete on vision. Was that the biggest
:11:13. > :11:16.issue in that speech? That was the dog whistle being raced to the
:11:17. > :11:23.megaphone. Vote for me all the other is getting. I never heard the
:11:24. > :11:30.Alliance party criticise what Martin McGuinness said three weeks ago.
:11:31. > :11:37.When Jerry Kerry put out his leaflets in the last unwell action
:11:38. > :11:41.he was saying exactly the same game. You had me on a Monday morning on
:11:42. > :11:46.your radio show on the same issue and after I was on the programme,
:11:47. > :11:47.you didn't play the clip of your interview with Mike Nesbitt last
:11:48. > :12:07.week. You are having a go at me because we
:12:08. > :12:13.predicted what you might do in your own speech and you did it! Stop
:12:14. > :12:16.making this about me! You are obsessed with me!
:12:17. > :12:24.APPLAUSE. But raised this with Mike Nesbitt
:12:25. > :12:29.last week. It did not happen with Martin McGuinness and then you
:12:30. > :12:34.decide to club asked us when Arlene Foster races at. You talk about
:12:35. > :12:37.economic someone's side of the mouth and then sectarianism --
:12:38. > :12:43.sectarianism with the other. Last time what we got was stopped and
:12:44. > :12:50.cool over the flags and the budget and it is absolutely outrageous. And
:12:51. > :12:55.brags it is coming up, that is economic illiteracy from the DUP.
:12:56. > :13:04.There are issues that need urgent attention and we need to know, the
:13:05. > :13:07.environment, issues about education, 7% still in integrated education and
:13:08. > :13:15.we're not moving forward. He did talk about those issues. Yes, but
:13:16. > :13:21.with this green and orange area, it is only about that. The big lattes
:13:22. > :13:28.or in government together, I cannot offer alternative platforms? -- big
:13:29. > :13:33.parties, they are in government. Compromise is not a bad thing. But
:13:34. > :13:35.this is a joint office and people wanted that. And you cannot
:13:36. > :13:38.this is a joint office and people your own nose but that the other one
:13:39. > :13:45.but this is a sham fight, it your own nose but that the other one
:13:46. > :13:48.the last nine years and we have seen this in every election, this
:13:49. > :13:49.the last nine years and we have seen Catholics in North al fast and only
:13:50. > :13:53.unionists for East Belfast Catholics in North al fast and only
:13:54. > :14:02.border does not move one inch after each election.
:14:03. > :14:08.border does not move one inch after this is switching people off, you
:14:09. > :14:12.border does not move one inch after and believing that politics can do
:14:13. > :14:19.anything. It is deflecting over the fact that you are right, no movement
:14:20. > :14:24.on things like flags, not moving on around victims and the past. Maybe I
:14:25. > :14:30.am getting older but sometimes something goes off in my head and I
:14:31. > :14:36.think, did you just say that? You have seen -- you said this has been
:14:37. > :14:44.a mess? And we shall do another five years, and you say, we will carry on
:14:45. > :14:46.with his mess? The SDLP was very clear, committed to power-sharing
:14:47. > :14:52.for as long as we... We clear, committed to power-sharing
:14:53. > :14:58.to be dragged kicking and screaming into power-sharing. We have been
:14:59. > :15:01.reluctant to leave the business of running the place and doing
:15:02. > :15:07.government to the people that did have to be kicked, screaming into
:15:08. > :15:11.with environment, we shall go into with environment, we shall go into
:15:12. > :15:16.the next election with a platform for the things we want to do
:15:17. > :15:20.differently. If the DUP is so concerned about their partner, Sinn
:15:21. > :15:30.Fein, becoming first Minister, they have it
:15:31. > :15:35.appointed if the second party can appoint the Deputy First Minister so
:15:36. > :15:38.if the DUP can stand against McGuinness as a first Minister, they
:15:39. > :15:45.can deliver that by McGuinness as a first Minister, they
:15:46. > :15:47.will not nominate a Deputy First Minister, they can guarantee
:15:48. > :15:52.Martin McGuinness will not be First Minister. The problem
:15:53. > :16:04.Martin McGuinness will not be First what would happen in that context?
:16:05. > :16:05.Martin McGuinness will not be First maybe, if he had more integrity and
:16:06. > :16:18.honesty, he would say that, he wants maybe, if he had more integrity and
:16:19. > :16:21.no government. What we have had for nine years is dysfunctional failure
:16:22. > :16:28.at Stormont, delivered by the DUP and Sinn Fein, in charge
:16:29. > :16:32.at Stormont, delivered by the DUP cabal, and OFM-DFM is the most
:16:33. > :16:36.dysfunctional, it will agree about nothing and smile about everything.
:16:37. > :16:41.You have had people trying the best defined somewhere forward, people
:16:42. > :16:46.with different views, rather than sniping from the outside, may be
:16:47. > :16:51.sitting down, as hard as it can be, to together. And what have they
:16:52. > :16:53.delivered? It is maybe more difficult to do than what you do?
:16:54. > :17:00.Which is complain. APPLAUSE.
:17:01. > :17:08.You should have a different sort of television programme than this, the
:17:09. > :17:14.personification of whingeing. Perhaps some people will lose --
:17:15. > :17:21.learn some lessons from yourself, as the chief whinger. His problem is
:17:22. > :17:27.that all of these complaints that he has about the system of government,
:17:28. > :17:30.and it is not perfect, but all of these issues that he has about the
:17:31. > :17:38.improvement cannot be obtained unless we negotiate those changes.
:17:39. > :17:50.He thinks he can get them but he cannot get them. You have changed
:17:51. > :17:56.nothing! We talk about creating a vision for the future and not
:17:57. > :18:01.creating fear, you have to negotiate afterwards on a set of policies that
:18:02. > :18:05.you have laid out and our policy is all about faster, forward, together,
:18:06. > :18:11.all I can hear from Arlene Foster is slower. I don't know who came up
:18:12. > :18:18.with that but I think it is good, we want to go faster. What policies?
:18:19. > :18:24.Won all of the stuff around deciding about health and integrated into --
:18:25. > :18:31.education. You want to go faster on health? This is not some PR talk,
:18:32. > :18:36.what are you going fast run? The media proposal is this needs to be
:18:37. > :18:42.done by five parties sitting together at the end of the election.
:18:43. > :18:46.You did not have to take that portfolio last time around. We will
:18:47. > :18:52.make decisions earlier on. What does that mean? Faster on what? It means
:18:53. > :19:01.you have to sit down with evidence -based policies... Which part? To go
:19:02. > :19:08.faster? About actual care for the people at home in communities. Go
:19:09. > :19:15.faster? What is? The people want us to set down and actually focus on
:19:16. > :19:19.those people... Here is what I suggest people did not want, these
:19:20. > :19:25.big lines, faster, together, forward? Is in any depth to that
:19:26. > :19:32.policy? Anything you can say to these people, here is what is going
:19:33. > :19:37.to change in your lives? Firstly, we go back to the table and incest, if
:19:38. > :19:40.we had the say, that something is done about all these issues from the
:19:41. > :19:48.fresh start on the past, to move forward... Let us go faster on the
:19:49. > :19:53.past? , on! That is vigorous, political parties should be coming
:19:54. > :20:00.forward with depth. This is about depth, if you want to change, we
:20:01. > :20:06.have two negotiate, we promise we will take away moving towards
:20:07. > :20:11.sectarian politics and move toward something which emphasises common
:20:12. > :20:14.good. We want to work common ground, we cannot pretend that people do not
:20:15. > :20:21.have nationalised or unionist views but it does not mean that we cannot
:20:22. > :20:27.move on 95% of things, like Brexit, things do not have to be green and
:20:28. > :20:33.orange, we will have mechanisms for the Deputy First Minister, we can
:20:34. > :20:36.have a settlement for victims and something that resolves the mess
:20:37. > :20:41.around the transfer test. You think some people will vote? For the First
:20:42. > :20:48.and Deputy First Ministerss? They reflect the views of the electorate?
:20:49. > :20:53.I have been on the doors, people tell me, of all the things, they are
:20:54. > :20:57.not going, who will be first Minister and what is the mechanism
:20:58. > :21:09.to elect them? I want to talk about the economy. We did not make this...
:21:10. > :21:15.You did! So you don't mind? It is not the only thing. Is this a big
:21:16. > :21:24.issue? People are talking about who is going to lead... Your people? The
:21:25. > :21:31.voters. For the DUP, is this a big issue? Be first Minister? It is, it
:21:32. > :21:36.is an important issue. Not the only one. -- the First Minister. You have
:21:37. > :21:45.sustained Martin McGuinness for nine years. You are walking around --
:21:46. > :21:49.walking away... People want to build a future and they do not want people
:21:50. > :21:54.to rewrite the past, that is what we are determined to do. Whether The
:21:55. > :22:06.Times are good or bad, absentees like Jenny... There is a
:22:07. > :22:11.contradiction here. Calm down. So, the bogeyman, Martin McGuinness...
:22:12. > :22:17.Don't let Martin McGuinness be First Minister. Vote for us all that will
:22:18. > :22:24.happen, and we're going on a trip on St Patrick's Day, Arlene Foster and
:22:25. > :22:28.Martin McGuinness, together, any inward investment press
:22:29. > :22:36.conferences... And those jobs are coming. He is not the bogeyman then!
:22:37. > :22:39.If they were not there, who would be one of the first journalists to
:22:40. > :22:49.criticise them? Are you talking about me again? Any journalist,
:22:50. > :22:55.while Ivy not there? -- why are they not there? As a young voter,
:22:56. > :23:00.something I realised it is a lot of difference between both elections,
:23:01. > :23:06.last year we looked into policies and what the parties were trying to
:23:07. > :23:11.get across, trying to get us to vote on the policies that suited us, this
:23:12. > :23:15.year I feel that it is voting for this one because you don't want to
:23:16. > :23:19.let the bad guys get the First Minister position. Why is there such
:23:20. > :23:28.a difference between these elections? OK. The man with the
:23:29. > :23:31.glasses. Northern Ireland was divided along sectarian lines for
:23:32. > :23:36.decades and was disastrous, we are meant to be moving forward and there
:23:37. > :23:41.are so many issues that affect entire communities, the struggling
:23:42. > :23:47.economy, the public service, the referendum, environment, asylum...
:23:48. > :23:53.Do you care? Those are the issues we should be focusing on, trying to
:23:54. > :23:58.unite the communities instead of playing on their fear of who is
:23:59. > :24:02.going to be in or not. These issues affect everybody and we should merge
:24:03. > :24:04.the communities together. Malcolm Glazer back this is about the DUP
:24:05. > :24:08.trying to be the biggest party and Glazer back this is about the DUP
:24:09. > :24:11.stopping Sinn Fein from being the biggest party and the threats are
:24:12. > :24:18.not those parties threatening each other, the threats of the rival
:24:19. > :24:22.parties. This device that Jim Allister points out to maximise the
:24:23. > :24:23.DUP vote ledger crush the Ulster unionist Party and the Alliance
:24:24. > :24:32.Party and that provides the unionist Party and the Alliance
:24:33. > :24:34.destroy the SDLP. Arlene Foster talks about 2% of
:24:35. > :24:38.destroy the SDLP. Arlene Foster will slip from the DUP to Sinn Fein.
:24:39. > :24:43.destroy the SDLP. Arlene Foster None of them! But there will be
:24:44. > :24:50.votes fought for between the DUP and the Ulster unionists. We'll DUP
:24:51. > :24:56.voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't know what will happen. But
:24:57. > :24:59.voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't number of nationalists who would
:25:00. > :25:04.voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't who would vote for the DUP and that
:25:05. > :25:09.voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't That is welcome.
:25:10. > :25:14.contributing factor towards us moving forward, so be it.
:25:15. > :25:18.are about parties trying to win. Imagine that! On what basis?
:25:19. > :25:23.are about parties trying to win. Or not letting the bogeyman in?
:25:24. > :25:33.are about parties trying to win. is one aspect of the five issues. Is
:25:34. > :25:35.this selection based on green and orange? It is sectarian
:25:36. > :25:37.scaremongering because of McGuinness is First Minister he will
:25:38. > :25:43.have no more power than today, McGuinness is First Minister he will
:25:44. > :25:47.a joint post, Joe is a lack of security
:25:48. > :25:50.was buried as appointing from Arlene Foster, we thought people would see
:25:51. > :25:55.a different style of leadership and it has become saturated
:25:56. > :26:00.scaremongering and this is not about Sinn Fein and the DUP, this is about
:26:01. > :26:06.the DUP are being afraid of losing ground to the UUP. What message does
:26:07. > :26:10.this send out around the world? If, all of a sudden, there was a
:26:11. > :26:17.nationalist with that title- First Minister. The signal around that? Is
:26:18. > :26:18.not fair for them to say... It is symbolism and Martin McGuinness has
:26:19. > :26:25.said he is happy not to be the First symbolism and Martin McGuinness has
:26:26. > :26:29.Minister or Deputy First Minister, it is just scaremongering. This is
:26:30. > :26:34.about frightening unionists into voting for the DUP. Martin
:26:35. > :26:35.McGuinness said he also wanted to be First Minister.
:26:36. > :26:41.that when other people talk about this issue, it goes over the heads
:26:42. > :26:45.of some commentators and this issue, it goes over the heads
:26:46. > :26:54.But when Arlene Foster mentions this in a speech, suddenly everybody...
:26:55. > :26:59.It was not one part of the speech. I nearly bounced off my chair! It was
:27:00. > :27:05.not just one part. It was in the middle... It was in the middle...
:27:06. > :27:12.You should get more exercise! It was in the middle and at the end. Yes,
:27:13. > :27:18.one small part. But the point is... It was not one small part. I am
:27:19. > :27:20.going to put that on the website tomorrow and we will show you that
:27:21. > :27:35.it is not one part. Others mentioned it and you did not
:27:36. > :27:40.make a song and dance about it. Are you going to serve under him? Tell
:27:41. > :27:46.you what I'll do. I won't walk away like you did in the last.... That's
:27:47. > :27:55.for certain. I would walk away and leave.... He went absent question.
:27:56. > :28:10.APPLAUSE Is the DUP prepared to serve under
:28:11. > :28:15.Martin McGuinness? Whenever Sinn Fein have done the right thing which
:28:16. > :28:18.they have done on occasion, I have recognised it, when they have done
:28:19. > :28:22.the wrong thing as they have done on many occasions, we have confronted
:28:23. > :28:38.them unlike Mr Alistair who ran away. You you what away for 20
:28:39. > :28:41.years. We didn't walk away either. Are you going to serve under
:28:42. > :28:48.McGuinness in your term? Which is it? Arlene Foster is going to be the
:28:49. > :28:52.First Minister because the majority of the Unionist community are going
:28:53. > :28:56.to vote for her. Some people will find that hard to live with, some
:28:57. > :29:03.people will not recognise that but that is a fact. Because you are
:29:04. > :29:10.scaremongering. Would you serve with him and under him? People are
:29:11. > :29:14.entitled to try and go and be the biggest party but this is
:29:15. > :29:19.deflection. If I never see another symbolic handshake up instalment for
:29:20. > :29:22.the rest of my life, I will be very happy about it. This is an attempt
:29:23. > :29:25.to deflect from the last nine years you haven't really achieved
:29:26. > :29:30.anything. You talk about investment and jobs and I'm going to explain to
:29:31. > :29:34.you. It is not that, for example, we're talking about corporation tax
:29:35. > :29:39.for the last 20 years, you still haven't managed that. Sure, the
:29:40. > :29:45.investors are looking for stability and you are bringing the Assembly
:29:46. > :29:47.down every few months, they are looking for skills, they are looking
:29:48. > :29:55.for infrastructure and you can't build the road up to that. You have
:29:56. > :30:02.been part of it. Stop pretending you're been on the outside. I'm not,
:30:03. > :30:06.we are being and it constructive opposition within the executive.
:30:07. > :30:14.You're part of the opposition now? I believe we are. There is breaking
:30:15. > :30:20.News that night, the SDLP are in the opposition inside the Government.
:30:21. > :30:24.Every member of every parliament is there to hold the Government to
:30:25. > :30:35.account. Every health is there to hold the Government to account. At
:30:36. > :30:39.least he is honest about it. What is the weight inside the garment? You
:30:40. > :30:44.will have the biggest numbers and in what way will they be there? This
:30:45. > :30:53.head counting nonsense with putting by, as Jim said, by the DUP and sent
:30:54. > :30:56.Andrews in order to do to create internal competition. I want one
:30:57. > :31:03.last point here. Here is my last point. I hope that some people will
:31:04. > :31:09.actually not headcount, with think with their heads and their vote will
:31:10. > :31:10.count in a different way. I am exhausted. Give our panel of round
:31:11. > :31:14.of applause. Thank you. My next guest is rock star royalty
:31:15. > :31:17.and has led a roller-coaster life of highs and lows in the music
:31:18. > :31:20.business after finding fame as Yes, ladies and gentlemen,
:31:21. > :32:12.it's Shaun Ryder! what you make of that? That is heavy
:32:13. > :32:19.gear. It is interesting to have you here is shorn because you are from a
:32:20. > :32:27.big Irish family. Shaun, your mob Linda was from a catholic
:32:28. > :32:38.background. Dott your mum. I'm basically wondering if your Irish
:32:39. > :32:45.roots matters to you. Yes and no. I don't make a big deal out of
:32:46. > :32:49.anything. That is their lot not me. Did that surprise you what that was
:32:50. > :32:56.like her? You seem a bit stunned by it? That political conversation? No,
:32:57. > :33:06.that is just a normal day in Northern Ireland. Your dad, Fred,
:33:07. > :33:12.your grandad Fred, he was head of the local Orange order. Yes, he was.
:33:13. > :33:19.You take an interest in Northern Ireland? No, I like pubs. I'm not
:33:20. > :33:26.into politics it is not me. I write songs. You are very good at it of
:33:27. > :33:29.course. Best known for the Happy Mondays. Tells me what it feels like
:33:30. > :33:37.as an artist playing the likes of Glastonbury. Glastonbury, it's a
:33:38. > :33:42.show. Simple as that. The bigger the audience the easier it is. I find
:33:43. > :33:46.small audience is very difficult. If you go on and you're applying a gig
:33:47. > :33:51.in front of 30 people that is an intense but 100,000 people, that is
:33:52. > :33:57.show business. So small audience who would more difficult.
:33:58. > :34:00.show business. So small audience who knew I stood right there singing,
:34:01. > :34:01.shaking about. Surely when you knew I stood right there singing,
:34:02. > :34:13.certain number of gigs then your knew I stood right there singing,
:34:14. > :34:22.confidence for evermore? Yes and no. Does Fame sit easily with you? Same?
:34:23. > :34:27.That it is part of the game and part of the job. Did you actually enjoy
:34:28. > :34:33.being a star when you look back on it all? I don't really go into that,
:34:34. > :34:38.I am an artist. I don't do reality television. You don't do reality
:34:39. > :34:47.television? We are going to see you. In fact I think we can see you. This
:34:48. > :35:03.was back at the years ago. This is you with a snake. Let's have a look
:35:04. > :35:08.at this. I will pull you out. Let's have a look at this one more time.
:35:09. > :35:15.In slow motion. Did that actually hurt? It is a show business snake.
:35:16. > :35:19.They got these snakes, it is show business take. They put them to
:35:20. > :35:24.sleep and then they bring them out and you going to the task. It is a
:35:25. > :35:28.show business snake. If that thing that may, I wanted to rip its head.
:35:29. > :35:32.If they had done that, there would have been a lot of political
:35:33. > :35:38.correctness. You can't kill a show business snake. It was a normal
:35:39. > :35:45.snake, I could've killed it. But you can't kill that. Did it hurt? Just a
:35:46. > :35:49.bit. And when you do a show like that of course that adds to all this
:35:50. > :35:56.fame, as to the celebrity and adds to the buzz around you, doesn't it?
:35:57. > :36:00.It was sort of a change of career. When you start off with artists we
:36:01. > :36:07.don't do reality television and that was looked down upon. It is sort of
:36:08. > :36:12.all changed the game. At this years old, people got to sort of see who I
:36:13. > :36:23.was, rather than sort of the headlines. I want to ask you about
:36:24. > :36:30.the drugs. OK. I want to ASCII about your drugs. Are you clean now?
:36:31. > :36:38.the drugs. OK. I want to ASCII about You've been area open about it. I
:36:39. > :36:43.was a 20-year-old kid, 18-year-old, as a 53 of mine you grow out of
:36:44. > :36:47.that. This is the point, there will be 18 and 20 old kids watching this
:36:48. > :36:50.tonight without doubt benefit of hindsight and experience. You said
:36:51. > :36:58.you basically tried everything going. Did it mess you up? That is a
:36:59. > :37:03.difficult one when you get into the drugs and kids. I was lucky enough
:37:04. > :37:08.to be in show business. I wasn't an lucky enough to be on the street and
:37:09. > :37:14.be a kid taking drugs. My express is totally different to a kid going out
:37:15. > :37:21.there trying to live on drugs. How bad it a get? Not as bad as any kid
:37:22. > :37:28.out there. I was in show business. Was it hard to kick the habit? Not
:37:29. > :37:33.really, after I hit 40, I wonder kid any more. I don't want to be living
:37:34. > :37:39.that live so I hit 40, that is 13 years ago and I sucked it. I read
:37:40. > :37:43.this story that when you were in America, you are doing code at the
:37:44. > :37:50.time, someone pulled a gun on you? That's just how it is. We apologise
:37:51. > :37:57.for that language. People just pull guns out. No they don't. Yes, they
:37:58. > :38:06.do. You should know that living over here. What happened? We would try to
:38:07. > :38:15.score in some part of New York. We were trying to score crack. We
:38:16. > :38:20.decided we really liked crack cocaine so we wanted to go for more.
:38:21. > :38:25.After we scored some, dads, when he talks, he spits and when he is
:38:26. > :38:29.speaking, he's got big gap in his teeth and this bit was coming out
:38:30. > :38:33.all over this kid. This kid has got spit all over his face, he decided
:38:34. > :38:38.he didn't like that and he was good to shoot me because he thought it
:38:39. > :38:44.was me spitting on him. Why did he pull the trigger? The guy that
:38:45. > :38:49.originally sold us the crack appeared out of nowhere and sorted
:38:50. > :38:57.it all out. It is not what you know it is who you know. You are kind of
:38:58. > :39:05.saying this as if you ended up as a nice encounter. That is scary stuff.
:39:06. > :39:16.I suppose so, yes. Would you stop faring? -- swearing. You are a
:39:17. > :39:22.reformed family man. Your wife keeps a tight rein on you. Yes, if she
:39:23. > :39:27.heard me swearing now, she would wait until I was sleeping and punch
:39:28. > :39:35.me in the face. This is Joanne and she has five rules for you. Does
:39:36. > :39:40.she? Never joined our call in the house, no drug-taking, knows no
:39:41. > :39:51.king, no swearing is, no cheating with each other. You are reformed
:39:52. > :39:58.family man. For a few years now. When I was doing... I started in the
:39:59. > :40:05.Happy Mondays as 18-year-old boy so had gone through life in a band and
:40:06. > :40:12.we have a license to do things different which is great. My Mrs
:40:13. > :40:18.comes in and invents rules and that is just how it is. We are running
:40:19. > :40:27.out of time but I don't want you to run at a time without asking you
:40:28. > :40:33.about this test are storing, -- test posturing. I never went to the
:40:34. > :40:36.doctors and I never went to the hospital and when I hit 40 things
:40:37. > :40:42.started going wrong, I saw that as an MOT. You going, the American
:40:43. > :40:49.Embassy Tommy had the mania and I had no testosterone. I got that
:40:50. > :40:55.sorted out. Did you feel a difference? Yes, absolutely. I had
:40:56. > :41:06.to have an injection every three months in the backside and the wife
:41:07. > :41:11.could feel the difference. Again, without being up there and going
:41:12. > :41:19.back to 21 mentally, it was like being 21 again. If you were looking
:41:20. > :41:23.at your kids now and saying to them, from the way I've lived my life and
:41:24. > :41:32.what I've done, what is the kind of lesson? I am lucky enough to have...
:41:33. > :41:37.The wife does all the talking. I don't. Do you ever have that talk
:41:38. > :41:41.with your parents about sex education? No, we didn't. We just
:41:42. > :41:45.found about and that is where I come from with the kids. I've got
:41:46. > :41:52.grown-up kids and the young kids and I was lucky enough again to become a
:41:53. > :41:55.parent again as a grown-up. And so the child having children which is
:41:56. > :42:04.the first time round I without making a career. This time round, I
:42:05. > :42:12.get to do it all... Right. You did get to get it right. I wish we had
:42:13. > :42:13.more time to talk but I overran with those politicians. Thank you for
:42:14. > :42:18.coming in. And to coincide with the date,
:42:19. > :42:22.health trusts here have banned All smoking shelters have
:42:23. > :42:25.been removed and staff, patients and visitors have been told
:42:26. > :42:27.they can't puff anywhere Even e-cigarettes and smoking
:42:28. > :42:32.in your car on hospital grounds Is this a step too far
:42:33. > :42:37.or a breath of fresh air? Vinny has been up to
:42:38. > :42:48.Belfast City Hospital What do you think? It is a bloody
:42:49. > :42:55.joke! You were just having a smoke? What about this? I think this is a
:42:56. > :43:00.disgrace. I have been going in there for a number of years, after cancer,
:43:01. > :43:03.and it always annoyed me to see people standing there, smoking,
:43:04. > :43:12.dreadful. What do you think about the smoking ban? It is good. -- not
:43:13. > :43:18.good, you cannot go out or anything. You still need it? It calms me down.
:43:19. > :43:22.The government wants you to do things that they want. They are
:43:23. > :43:28.trying to look after people's health? How much money are they
:43:29. > :43:31.getting from cigarettes, from tax? We have
:43:32. > :43:36.getting from cigarettes, from tax? we have to go somewhere!
:43:37. > :43:39.getting from cigarettes, from tax? very good thing. It sends a smoking
:43:40. > :43:41.getting from cigarettes, from tax? negative message. You might have a
:43:42. > :43:47.terminal patient who was given three weeks to live and they first deck --
:43:48. > :43:54.spending adhere to get pain relief and they cannot come out here and
:43:55. > :43:58.have a cigarette. It is a good idea, if you stop smoking. You have to let
:43:59. > :44:03.people have their own choice. They talk about choices but smokers, the
:44:04. > :44:06.choices are being taken away. Joining me now from our Reading
:44:07. > :44:09.studio is celebrity chef who is patron of pro-smoking group
:44:10. > :44:11.Forest, and the commentator,
:44:12. > :44:22.Andrea McVeigh. Should people not have free choice?
:44:23. > :44:27.People do have a free choice, smoking is not against the law, this
:44:28. > :44:31.is about their health giving environment where people are going
:44:32. > :44:36.to get healthy and you cannot have people standing and smoking outside
:44:37. > :44:40.a hospital. What if they are addicted? You know what, there are
:44:41. > :44:44.plenty of programmes within hospitals to help them stop. If they
:44:45. > :44:55.are in hospital for whatever reason, they can access services. I have a
:44:56. > :45:00.genuine interest in this, it has made me angry for ten years, this
:45:01. > :45:04.issue of smoking in hospitals. I could not believe that this morning,
:45:05. > :45:11.the amount of public reaction from both sides, why free choice in a
:45:12. > :45:16.hospital environment? You do not want people smoking outside the
:45:17. > :45:24.front door? Do you? Some people do. The point is, you have people in
:45:25. > :45:28.hospital, it is a very stressful time, they are going to have an
:45:29. > :45:34.operation maybe. They need something to relieve that stress. I believe
:45:35. > :45:40.that it is the freedom of choice of that individual. You do not smoke
:45:41. > :45:44.inside the building, we understand that, but how many times have you
:45:45. > :45:48.been outside a hospital and you can see the workers, the doctors and
:45:49. > :45:55.nurses, the hospital porters, catering staff, smoking outside and
:45:56. > :45:57.the patients, in dressing gowns, even with their little tubes,
:45:58. > :46:04.outside having a cigarette because... But smoking contributes
:46:05. > :46:12.to 30% of all cancers in this country? 30%! 24% of people smoke in
:46:13. > :46:20.this country in Northern Ireland. It kills 2300 people here every year.
:46:21. > :46:27.But lots of things will kill you. The amount of chemicals in the
:46:28. > :46:33.atmosphere, the amount of anti-fire spray that they put on the sofa. But
:46:34. > :46:39.that is not being put onto people going into hospital. I had cancer
:46:40. > :46:45.ten years ago. And in order to get chemotherapy to cure me, to help you
:46:46. > :46:51.live, I had to walk past smokers to go into the cancer centre and they
:46:52. > :46:55.were patients, and visitors, standing outside the cancer centre
:46:56. > :47:00.and to get chemotherapy to save my life I had to walk past these
:47:01. > :47:04.smokers. That is incredibly distressing, for a start and it is
:47:05. > :47:09.also unhealthy. I don't care what people do in their own home but if
:47:10. > :47:16.they are affecting my health and this is a caregiving environment...
:47:17. > :47:21.They don't have to... You can protect that having areas away from
:47:22. > :47:27.the doers so that you don't have to pass through smokers, we have a
:47:28. > :47:32.situation in England and it hospitals are ripping people off
:47:33. > :47:36.with car parking charges, so maybe, maybe this is a way of saying that
:47:37. > :47:41.you can pay for a little cubicle to go and have a cigarette? There is
:47:42. > :47:45.another way, they are trying to raise revenue. The thing is, take
:47:46. > :47:53.the smokers away from the front door, but give them some space to go
:47:54. > :47:57.and smoke, it is their choice. This is a question about how this can be
:47:58. > :48:03.policed, icon from Derry, the first Health Trust to Inverness this, if
:48:04. > :48:07.you look at two o'clock in the morning, outside Accident and
:48:08. > :48:11.Emergency, the amount of people standing there, nurses and doctors
:48:12. > :48:17.and patients, how will this be policed? Are you going to expect the
:48:18. > :48:22.staff to actually tell the smokers that they cannot do that? I might
:48:23. > :48:28.have missed this but I do not know how they can policed this. They have
:48:29. > :48:35.not said they will impose fines, when they legislate for that? What
:48:36. > :48:37.is the point? Exactly and that is my point, if you look at the Western
:48:38. > :48:43.Health Trust, it has been intimated there for one year and it has made
:48:44. > :48:49.absolutely no difference. And as a nonsmoker I think it is wrong, when
:48:50. > :48:52.you have big signs that say no smoking, but it is making a mockery
:48:53. > :49:00.of the entire Health Service. They reckon this costs hospitals 106 to
:49:01. > :49:06.?4 million, smoking, every year. But we pay for 8000 nurses. But the
:49:07. > :49:10.amount of tax that goes on the cigarettes, if you look at the
:49:11. > :49:14.research, there is about ?12 billion going back into the Health Service.
:49:15. > :49:18.Nobody is looking at the vulnerable patients with dementia and all
:49:19. > :49:23.servers who do not know any better, a cigarette might calm them down,
:49:24. > :49:33.and if they do not get that, they will get agitated. It will affect
:49:34. > :49:37.other patients and staff members. But in a caregiving environment, 24%
:49:38. > :49:45.the population here smoke, the majority do not, so in a situation
:49:46. > :49:52.like this there is no win-win situation, one group has to have
:49:53. > :49:57.their rights prioritised. In Antrim Area Hospital, will a patient have
:49:58. > :50:04.to be taken to the roundabout away from the hospital grounds? What is
:50:05. > :50:12.wrong with smoking patches? But the patient does not know any better. If
:50:13. > :50:18.the patient has dementia. How can they have access to cigarettes? The
:50:19. > :50:22.family brings them in. Imagine a summary said you couldn't have
:50:23. > :50:30.borrowed chocolate or a cup of tea. You could say that to me! Medication
:50:31. > :50:37.can also be used. Medication does not always work. I used to smoke
:50:38. > :50:43.quite a lot. You stop? I stopped cold turkey. Cold turkey? So you are
:50:44. > :50:49.defeating your own argument? I am not. You are saying people cannot go
:50:50. > :50:55.cold turkey in hospital? A patient with all servers or dementia cannot
:50:56. > :51:05.because in their own reality... I have dealt with them in the past.
:51:06. > :51:09.One second. Up here. Smoking is bad for you and in an ideal world nobody
:51:10. > :51:14.would be smoking but every week you read about overstretched health care
:51:15. > :51:18.workers, what are they supposed to do when somebody goes away for a
:51:19. > :51:24.cheeky cigarette? Are going to be smoking shelter outside the main
:51:25. > :51:28.door, it might be 30 minutes. What happens if they fall over having a
:51:29. > :51:31.cigarette? That is another thing for a doctor or a health care
:51:32. > :51:34.professional to worry about than they already have enough to worry
:51:35. > :51:40.about. You don't have to have a cigarette, you could smoke on trains
:51:41. > :51:46.and buses, in restaurants, you cannot do that any more. We're
:51:47. > :51:50.talking about outside the hospital. It is the choice of the customer, it
:51:51. > :51:54.is the choice of the person if they want to smoke, it is a legal
:51:55. > :51:58.activity and there are doing this within the building, they are going
:51:59. > :52:07.outside, perhaps 20 yards away, have shelters. The fact is, people want
:52:08. > :52:14.to smoke, the majority do not smoke and we all know it is bad for us,
:52:15. > :52:21.but people smoke. And it is legal. Can people smoke in your restaurant?
:52:22. > :52:26.No, the smoking ban in restaurants has been good, I'm not sure that it
:52:27. > :52:30.has been good in pubs, it is very congenial for a lots of smokers,
:52:31. > :52:37.outside pubs in Ireland, but his work all of the craic is. It has
:52:38. > :52:43.brought people together. -- latticework all of the craic is.
:52:44. > :52:48.Outside? Yes, outside, that is where people get together to chat and have
:52:49. > :52:52.a cigarette. But we're not talking about a public park by the
:52:53. > :52:58.middle-of-the-road, we're talking about hospital grounds, everyday
:52:59. > :53:02.people are battling at the very front line of curing the lives of
:53:03. > :53:07.people and in five years or ten years, we will look back at this and
:53:08. > :53:12.think this is as ridiculous as doctors advertising cigarettes in
:53:13. > :53:18.the 1950s. People in the future will not believe this conversation. I
:53:19. > :53:21.know I am going off on a tangent slightly but when I was looking at
:53:22. > :53:31.this, one statistic that startled me, 13% of 11-16 -year-olds in this
:53:32. > :53:39.country smoke. 13%. I just find that astonishing. And for the shops, and
:53:40. > :53:42.this is a tangent, for those shopkeepers selling those
:53:43. > :53:49.cigarettes, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Unbelievable. The young
:53:50. > :53:56.lady... I want to go back to the point about policing. I was at the
:53:57. > :54:02.launch today of the campaign and in terms of the staff, it is going to
:54:03. > :54:06.be at the discretion of the manager and it will be dealt with as part of
:54:07. > :54:11.the disciplinary process if the staff are found to be smoking. But
:54:12. > :54:18.what about the patient? For the patient and visitors, the majority
:54:19. > :54:23.of the staff in all of the different areas, they were given
:54:24. > :54:27.the team who have worked tirelessly the team who have worked tirelessly
:54:28. > :54:30.and they will be going to the patients and delivering cards
:54:31. > :54:33.and they will be going to the and will give them information about
:54:34. > :54:42.services... This man... and will give them information about
:54:43. > :54:44.talking about teenagers smoking, I work with a lot of teenagers and one
:54:45. > :54:46.of the strangest work with a lot of teenagers and one
:54:47. > :54:54.happening is some kids are going straight onto vaping, without
:54:55. > :54:59.smoking. E-cigarettes are also banned? We're not talking about
:55:00. > :55:06.hospitals, they are using e-cigarettes and they have never
:55:07. > :55:11.smoked in their life. Very quickly? I want to make the point about the
:55:12. > :55:14.staff because I am a smoker and I struggle to get through a couple of
:55:15. > :55:18.hours in my job without going out for a smoke and these people are
:55:19. > :55:21.saving lives, working in the most stressful conditions and were taking
:55:22. > :55:28.away something they are addicted to and not letting them have a quick
:55:29. > :55:29.break. It is just ridiculous. Ladies and gentlemen, round of
:55:30. > :55:37.That's almost it for tonight, and don't forget you can continue
:55:38. > :55:40.the conversation after the show on Facebook live and Twitter
:55:41. > :55:44.and again on the radio show tomorrow.
:55:45. > :55:46.We like to champion new music from up and coming bands
:55:47. > :55:52.This five-piece indie folk group have seen their last two singles
:55:53. > :55:57.With their song Friends from their self-titled new album,
:55:58. > :56:48.# And when the water is too deep to swim
:56:49. > :57:30.# And you will swim from shore to open shore
:57:31. > :59:04.# Cut me down to firewood and carve our names
:59:05. > :59:07.I'm Vincent Kearney, I'm home affairs correspondent